The Hockey PDOcast - Goalie Entertainment Value Rankings

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Sean Shapiro to work through their list of the most entertaining goalies to watch this season. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Progressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the HockeyPedioCast. My name is Dmitra Pilpovich, and joining me is my good buddy, Sean Shapiro. Sean, what's going on, man? Oh, not too much, man. I am enjoying a Friday morning here with you on the show. This is, I get to hang out with you and then go pick up the kid from a half day of school. So what better way to spend the morning chatting with you? So I'm thrilled to be here. No, it's going to be fun.

We have a special plan for today's show. Generally, you and I come on and maybe we have a rough idea of what we want to talk about, but we kind of freewheel. And I feel like you and I keep an open space for us to just have some fun banter. But today, we're going to do a show that I think is perfect content for heading into the weekend, having a bit of fun with things. And that is our unveiling the goalie watchability rankings. Now, just as a little preamble to get everyone on the same page with us, I think this is the genesis of this.

It was an idea actually born from you being at a game in Detroit watching The Cracken in town. I believe it was last weekend. And you were talking about how you were lamenting that Philip Grubauer was starting in that for the Cracken ahead of Joey DeCord. No, no, no. Yes, yes. A really fun goal to watch. And then what I was going to say was that little did you know, you get your wish granted because the Red Wings lit up Philip Grubauer for three quick goals.

Joy D'I.Corp comes in and plays the rest of the game. And I think that's a great example of why we want to talk this out because I can't think of a dynamic around the league like this in terms of how depressing it is watching Philip Grubauer be a net these days as opposed to what a breath of fresh air and joy and downright electric. Joliettecourt can be at times. Now, in that case, I think it's a lot easier to distinguish between the two, also from a results perspective, because the Cracken have a very good chance or a much better chance of winning when Joy to Corsinette because he makes a lot more saves. I don't think as we go through this list, that's necessarily going to beat atop our criteria, right? There's a lot of really good, of great, even the best goalies in the league today that aren't going to crack our list from an entertainment perspective because these two things are almost, diametrically opposed at times, right? Like a great technical goalie performance is being in the right position and making yourself

big and absorbing a save that doesn't make it on a highlight reel. That's kind of boring, though. I can appreciate it. I can value it, but it's not really the spirit of today's conversation. Today, we're looking for, what are you looking for in terms of entertainment value from goalies? I'll give you that and then I'll give you my sort of criteria. Yeah. Yeah, for me, my criteria went this way.

where I am, it's a Tuesday night, a Thursday night, I'm flipping around and I see this goalie is playing tonight. So that's the reason I'm watching that game instead of the others. That's, that's, that's kind of how I used a bit. That's a bit of my criteria of how I define the goalie watchability entertainment factor where, hey, so-and-so starting tonight, I see that. I'm like, I'm going to watch that game. Or I see, I've got not to spoil it. So earlier this last month, there was two guys high on my list who were going to play against each other. So I'm like, all right, I'm staying up late to watch this one, this one tonight.

That to me is the kind of the rough line of I tune into the hockey game because I want to watch because of who's in net that night. That's the line I'm using. And now that can be for entertainment is pretty much probably. about 80% of this. Being good is, being good as hand help, but it's more so who's entertaining. I'm going to watch the game and I'm going to be like, this is, I'm going to have a good time. Because you know what? Hockey's a game. Games are supposed to be fun. Last time I checked, this is the entertainment business. So that's, that's kind of where my line, in my head, how it goes.

Yeah. I think that's an important point to make where I think there's sort of like a bell curve there of like how a goalie being good. and you being able to watch and appreciate the fact that they're just good at their craft and they're the one of the best people in the world at what they do. Sometimes it's fun from a chaos perspective, a goalie that can let in bad goals or keep the other team in it that just leads to kind of like an entertaining game script or game environment, but you can go too far in that direction and then it gets to a point where it's just genuinely sad to watch and you're watching it feeling bad for the goalie,

and we'll have a couple honorable mentions that didn't make my, list, even though you'd think that they'd be, their games would be fun to watch. I did want to sort of note, though, that I think you took that way too far, because you made the point of you're tuning into games specifically to watch goalies. I think you have to be a sick freak to be seeking out any game just to watch a goalie. Well, I am, I am a sick freak, though. So that's, I love hockey in general, but I am a sick freak and I love watching goalies play. So there is, that's, you're talking to a person who is, who is a sick freak. So, So we can call it what it is.

That's fair. I'm viewing it through the lens of these guys are accentuating my viewing experience. I'm not tuning you specifically to watch our teams because of the goalies, but they help add to my experience as a viewer. It's a job where the most important skills, I'd argue, are a commonist positioning and consistency. And so a guy like Connor Hallibuck, for example, even though he's clearly the best goalie in the world and is having another all-world season, was not even in any sort of. consideration for me for this list. So I wanted to get that out of the way I'm looking for. Showmanship,

flair, risk-taking, athleticism. And then I think the most important one, unique quirks that distinguish you from the giant robots that are poised to take over the world and this position specifically. And so we're going to come back to that concept a couple times. When I gave you this idea, we're going to do this show today,

we put together our, our lists. You said you had about 16 goalies. I have a top 10 and we can work through those top 10 and then I have a handful of honorable mentions. How do you want to frame this? Do you want to get in honorable mentions now and work our way down? Yeah, I've got a top 10 and then I have, let's see, let's get through our honorable mentions and I'll just get run a quick one out of the way. I do have hella buck as like the last of my honorable mentions because he is the, he is, as you said, there's no quirks there. But To me, there is still something, he kind of, his level of success right now clears the bar of

this is the guy who's the best position in the world right now in that heart trophy conversation. And so while it isn't exciting, he still is the, yeah, I watch Connor Hellibuck play. Not nearly for the reasons, but he's the, like, he's the last one of, I added him to my honorable mention list because there are times, like, I'll watch Winnipeg play, and it's nice to watch the person who's the best at their craft. Is it exciting? Not at all. Is it, but I have him as the bottom of my honorable mention list,

and then we get to the real fun stuff honorable mention wise. That's fair. He is the gold standard, and there's something just very comforting about watching him in that. Yes. What are a couple other honorable mentions on your list, and then I'll see if I agree. I want to make sure I've got my list cut here at the right spot. Hold on. Okay, let me give you a couple that just missed my list.

John Gibson. Okay. Who once would have been on my list here, I still think the difference in his A-plus game when he's truly feeling it and when he's on and he has these stretches. He had one in November this year. He's had them at the start of a lot of previous seasons. He's so fun to watch because he carries a certain level of undefinable swag

to his game, right? Like the glove saves, the dramatics. I love the individual quirks. There's no goalie more hellbent on keeping play moving in overtime than he is after he makes a save. Like he'll stop the puck and he'll instantly just try to throw it out of his glove

forward to avoid a face off in a zone zone and a whistle and allow his team to keep playing. A couple times this year I can recall where he did it and the goalie just blew the whistle anyways and he was furious and irate and he's just like losing his mind but when he's not going and a lot of this is team environment and the fact that he's been playing behind this very bad ducks team it bums me out watching some of the games and it feels like his lows are very low and so that's why he didn't make my list but i think if you're just distilling pure a plus game he's going to give you

the best performance he can i'm going to be there watching yeah i had him on my list too he's he's someone who I, it's, there's also a narrative with him that I love watching games where it's, he, and I've seen it, I've seen it in person a couple times where, because I covered so many of the John Gibson versus Dallas thing, so there's a bit of a historical perspective here where he would be the only reason the game would be going well at all. And then eventually the third or fourth goal would go in. And then John Gibson, the trademark John Gibson, in 200-foot stare of like, what have I done with my life?

It, like, he adds to the, a bit of the long-term entertainment factor, even if it's a little bit sad of that forlorn look at the end. Like, all the stuff you mentioned, but it's the sometimes where you would see his, like, soul break and realize that I've spent my career in this spot is one. for me. I had, I'll go one to one now if we want to go back and forth on kind of the honorable

mention space here. I had, I've got a, I want to go with, I want to go with Logan Thompson here. I like, I, I enjoy watching Logan Thompson. He part in his play this year has also been the element of he has been, he's been good too, right? Like I'm sure there's some questions of whether he should have been on that team Canada team, right, for four nations. And there's also something fun about Thompson from a, I guess, both goalies in Washington, right? There's also something a little bit fun that gets you on the honorable mention list for catching with the other hand, right? Like, there's a little bit of a little bit of fun, unique this of that where it looks like two goalies on both ends of the ice looking at the opposite, looking like two sides of the mirror.

So I'll go, I'll throw Thompson out there and then we'll go kind of rip through something, because I want to talk more in depth about our actual top 10. So let's rip for some honorable mentions here. That's fair. Logan Thompson is a great shout. I had to give a shout out on my honorable mentions to both Mark Andre Fleury and Jonathan Quick, obviously, in a different stage of their career, not playing as much and not as physically gifted as maybe they once were in their prime, which is understandable, given their

respective age. But they're just such relics in terms of just throwing technique. sneak out the window and making a save by any means necessary has obviously gotten them in trouble at times throughout their careers as well. But just in terms of the unique quirks and watching them play, there's an unpredictability as well, which is just not something you see from a lot of young goalies coming into today's game, everyone who's much more refined and very cookie cutter. And so I appreciated that. The one that I struggled with the most in terms of not making my top 10 and maybe part of this is

recency bias, but it was McKenzie Blackwood because I just think at his size, the athleticism, how good his pad work is in terms of the lateral movement and shutting plays off. He's been so good of late for Colorado and it's just

been really fun to watch. And so I struggled with because I wanted to get him on this list, but we're giving him some love here on my honorable mentions. I had him actually, so I do have flurry as 10 just because I have it's there's a little bit of the part of especially this season knowing I'm hoping this becomes an annual project for you and I that we're not going to get flurry in the future on this so

I still have flurry on 10 as 10 on this and blackwood was kind of blackwood was my last out so I agree with you on Blackwood, especially, I agree with you on that one. The other two that I had that are kind of in that honorable mention space that I had is honestly, it's actually both goalies for St. Louis, because they're both chaotic, and it's not necessarily for how they stop the puck, but it's a bit of the chaos they provide as well when you're, like, there is Jordan Bennington, I don't really, how he stops. The puck doesn't excite me, but there's always the, could tonight be the night that he completely loses it and decides that he's going to try to challenge the other team to a fight or slash

Ben Bishop on his way or randomly slash the other team's goalie during a thing. So Bennington to me is just a little bit of that, that outward, away from the crease chaos. And then I like, like Joel Hofer to me, I like watching Joel Hofer play. He's a little bit. I think he's not into that top 10 yet for me. There's a couple different things for him. But I think Joel Hofer is someone who is a little bit underrated from the watchability rating. And I think if you went through and he's also someone from a, let's call it what it is.

If you're a goalie who wanders and plays the puck, you're going to start popping up on this list a little bit too. And I think when it comes to, there's some other guys on the list that, that will be up there who attempt a little bit more and play a little bit more. But when you're talking about goalies who every single time they play in the puck, they're trying to look for the stretch pass, and that can create a little bit of chaos in both ends. That's why I've got Joel Hofer. So for me, both Blues goalies are chaotic in different ways for the honorable mention space here.

Okay, let's get into our actual list, guys, you can make the cut back. Enough preamble here. Let's just work through it. Let's work from top bottom. We can work and we can end with our actual top guys. Who's on your list, the top 10 that made your list? So are we going one to 10 or 10 to 1?

Well, let's go 10 to 1. Let's save the best for last. We should give away the number 1 right now. Yeah, like I got flurry at 10. Just as I said part of that was because I know you had a model mention. I had flurry at 10. To me, it's still the beautiful, the beautiful attempts, the bit of the chaos, the flare, the showmanship.

It's all still there. And it's a little bit of a nostalgia play, too, for me, where it's, hey, we're only getting this for three, four more months. So I like watching Flurry do this for a little bit more. He won't be on this list next year. So a little bit of a historical place on the list, but that to me is, I've got Flurry at 10. That's fair.

How about you? Number 10 on my list is, and I'm curious to see if you made your list, but it's Sam Montembow. and he is a goalie who when you watch him and this doesn't necessarily apply now because the habs are playing much better generally and have really tightened up their game defensively but there was a stretch where he would be exposed

to just an unbelievable amount of workload but also it felt like in watching those games and those performances he would take a surreal amount of punishment as well like he would just like contort his body and be forced in all these positions where you would have to make outrageous saves and he's been a big beneficiary of this recent stretch. Now, while I actually wanted to include him as well, just to shout out his partner in that for the haves, Jacob Dobesh, who's only played four games here so far, but the most

recent performance we just saw in Dallas continued this stretch where he's played four games. This year for the habs since being called up, stopped 103 of 107 shots, all on the road against the Panthers, Aves, cap, cap, Pitals and Stars who are all top 10 in goals this season. And I felt like that last game in Dallas in particular was a bit of an outlier for the HAPS because it was one of the games during this stretch where I really felt like they actually did get outplayed and probably deserved to lose.

The Stars had a lot of glorious opportunities and Dobish was phenomenal in that game. So not enough of a workload only four games so far to generate any real interest in terms of this list, but just the Habs goalies in particular. at a shout-out Monta-Bow because he's been doing it for a while now. And based on performance, you're right. Like you mentioned earlier, Logan Thompson should be on Team Canada. And that was a mistake on Team Canada's part. Sam Hunterbo was one of the goleys that did make it.

But I just think from a unique perspective of watching him play and what he's been through, I've actually quite enjoyed a lot of the performances he stacked together over the past, whatever, two years or so. Well, this is a perfect example, right? So I shot it out at Thompson and my honorable mention. I have Montable 9 on this list. I have Montevil higher on this watchability list that I do for for Thompson. So to me, this is a perfect example of how this list works.

It's not necessarily of picking the goalie that which one should have been picked for Team Canada. This is the watchability. So like I have Montepo 9. And you're right about Dobis. I mean, I haven't, I got to go back and watch the Dallas. I didn't watch the Dallas game from last night because I was at the all. All-America game for the All-America game last night for here in Plymouth. So I'm going to go back and watch that one.

But, yeah, Dobis, to me, having watched his first couple games, he has become, just not enough sample size, but to me, that's a good shout as a guy to kind of circle of, hey, let's see where he keeps going on this. But I had Montev-O-9th. I think that's a really good call by, it's a really good call for him on the list. I like the way he approaches the game. he doesn't look cookie cutter. To me, he is a, like, he definitely, I have him nine.

So you have him 10, that's, we kind of both have them in the great range. So that's good for Montenville. All right. Well, ninth on my list then to catch up with you was the aforementioned Joey Decor. There's a certain breadth of fresh air watching him play in terms of the way he approaches the game. I love his puck handling. He had a play earlier this year in a home game against Ottawa,

where like he's sent one of the most beautiful, I guess, non-Egorius Schurkin stretch passes you're going to see where it just like flew mid-air across all the zones and set up a rush opportunity for one of his forwards. And so I really just enjoy watching his compete the way he approaches it. And just in general, I feel like fun stuff is happening. And it also a nice luxury or a chair on top of that for the Seattle Cracken is that he's actually also really good at stopping the puck. Yeah, I have him a little bit higher.

So we'll get to, we'll get to his number one. Like, I have him a little bit higher on my list. I have him in the same five to 10 range or whatever. So, like, that's, yeah, but I love, I love watching the court plays, the impetus for this whole list, honestly. So we almost honor really mentioned, we almost honorably should give him number one, because he's the whole impetus for the whole list. But yeah, he's, I, he's also, I like the way, just from a, the way guys look at the game, too. and I'm actually, I'll do a story on in Decord soon here.

I'm working with the Crack and PR because originally my plan after that game, so one of the both wonderful things and terrible things about that game, I was originally planning to talk to Decord after the game because he wasn't going to play that game. Crack and PR was like, oh, we'll get him for you after the game. Well, then he plays and Detroit bombs them and they're like, well, let's just do it over the phone. So I've got that, I'm working on setting up that phone interview with Decord about something right now. And the other thing I like about Decord is he's, a little bit of an outside the box thinker and the way he plays too. Like there's been times where

I've heard stories talking to some guys from Seattle. Like he uses that like the VR headset to prep for games. So there's been times where mid like he felt like he struggled in the first period. And so he's popped on like the virtual reality headset like during the intermission and made some virtual saves during the intermission to sharpen up for the next period. So I know we don't all get to watch that, but just like to me that just adds to the lore of this guy who approaches the game a little bit differently has a little bit. And so I've got him a little bit higher on my list, but maybe a little bit sentimentality at the same time. But I love watching him. He's definitely on this list. No, that's a really good shot. I'm looking forward to reading that piece. You should listen to

the show that I did with Kevin Woodley recently. It was a while back now, but he had a great segment in there about Joey DeCourt and some of the work that you're mentioning there that he's put and off the ice and the attention to detail with his craft. And it's no mistake that or a coincidence that he's gotten to where he has right now. Okay, so we're into our top eight here. Who's next on your list? I've got Lucas Dostle over in Anaheim. I know it's funny because Gibson is, Gibson was honorable mention.

And Gibson before would have been on this list. But I love watching Lucas Dostle play. I love the way he's got a little bit of swagger. I love the way that he probably shouldn't handle the puck the way some other guys do because he doesn't have the skill to do it the way a decor or Schisturkin do, but it doesn't stop him from doing it. And that just adds to the entertainment factor of this. I watched him in person try for an empty netter in Detroit last year.

To me, I like Lucas watching Dostle a lot. that's a very fair call I've got him even higher on my list he's so good you mentioned going for the goalie goal he's also scored one in the HL I have no doubt

that he's going to add it to his NHL resume at some point has made so many other worldly saves this season is just so fun to watch one of a rare combination of goalies that is in the right position a lot and is big and makes the saves

but also when stretched and needing to can kind of throw it out the window and make highlight real saves like this one that he made recently last weekend against marty natures where he's going laterally and just as a last ditch effort essentially robs him of an easy one-time goal so yeah lucas do style is absolutely phenomenal and he's higher on my list number eight on my list and maybe he should have been higher based on what he's actually done this season um but i feel like in general

and reflecting on my list i have a bit of shining new toys syndrome because i just like i rank the younger goal he's higher just because i've seen less of them and so I'm more excited to get more reps of watching them and see what they're capable of. So I kind of bump the veterans maybe lower on my list than they probably belong. But Jacob Markstrom, who should be number one on this list based on pure volume of outrageous highlight real saves this season. If you're putting together a list of the top 10 saves, he's probably got at least five or six of them so far. Like a bunch of just like has no business, stretching his glove out, making a save. He had one in Seattle where he like knocked a puck out with his paddle out of midair while he was falling back into his own net.

He's been so good, but also has made some of these just, just great A outrageous saves. So Markstrom has been fully worth all the hype in terms of what he'd bring to New Jersey. And he's made all the saves that he's needed to. And so he's eight on my list. He probably should have been higher, though, just now reflecting on the types of saves that he's made and how fun it's been to watch. Yeah, he's, it's funny now that you say that, because I've got a guy that I didn't include on this list. Now that I think about it, I probably, I didn't do it because of just,

you talk about, I have Markstrom on this list. I have Markstrom higher on my list. And you mentioned kind of the saves he's made, some of the highlights real and everything like that. So I actually have him, I have him a little bit higher on my list here. But you're making me think about a little bit of regret of someone I didn't mention, and it's someone who I, and I'm going to call it fatigue for me having seen way too much of him to over,

over time. And so we'll talk to talk about that guy, I guess, because maybe he'll be on your list, and maybe he won't, and then we'll talk about it at the end. But yeah, I have Markstrom higher on my list. He's, the highlight reel is, the highlight reel has been great. And then the other thing that I just, like, it was the, there's a bit of that just like, that surprise flare, right? Because there's times where Markstrom can play this style.

that looks so calm and composed and connected. And then you're like, oh, but, and then he breaks out that Dominic Hachik-esque save. Like, I love the kind of unexpected that comes with him. So that's why I have him higher in my list. There's also been a strange environment for him, right? Because I think the part of the billing heading in was how good he was last year and has been in the past generally as a trend of like in high volume environments

where he's engaged in having to make all these saves off the rush and being constantly tested. That's where he thrives. And that's what New Jersey kind of needed last year specifically. This year they've been so much better as a whole generally in terms of limiting chances and exposing their goalies to that. And so there's been some of these games where like he just doesn't see a puck for a long time. And then all of a sudden is called upon to make one of those saves.

And he's been making them more often than not. So yeah, it's been really fun to watch. All right, Sean, let's take our break here. And then we come back. We'll jump right back into it and keep working through our list of most fun goalies. to watch this season. You're listening to to the Hockey P.D.

Ocast streaming on the SportsNet Radio Network. All right, we're back here in the HockeyOcast joined by Sean Shapiro. Sean, we're working through our goalie watchability rankings

this season. I believe, well, we've done 10, 9, and 8 in the honorable mentions before we went to break. Are we up to 7 on your list? Seven, yeah.

I've got Shistercun at 7. And for me, it's the he fits the box of both he's good and I'll be honest he brings a lot of fun with the puck handling too and that's something that adds to this list

the way that he trap the way that he can sling the puck the way that he pushes things and and there's a bit of fun the chaos of honestly it's it's been fun to watch him deal with the duress of what the Rangers of this year right like his his team environment has made it so he's been a little bit under siege a little bit more,

and we've gotten to see a little bit more of his natural athleticism this season for me. So I have him at seven. Yeah, the Rangers have been quote unquote fun. No, no, she's just, he went for a goalie goal on Thursday night in Utah as well, just missed it wide. But it was a heck of an effort as well.

Yeah, just watching him, especially when he is called upon to make those lateral stretches. And also I was talking, about how John Gibson brings those kind of dramatics and flares with some of those saves when he's feeling it. No goalie does that sort of of glove save windmill making it look so much more

aggressive than it had any reason being saved than he was just derrickin as well right like he'll catch it and then all of a sudden arms just coming all the way up and he's really selling it for everything it's worth but yeah no it's incredibly entertaining to watch him I have him one spot higher on my list I have him number six and part of that is probably just because we're becoming desensitized to a little bit because he's been doing this for what four or five years now at least so I think you're

kind of familiar with it but that doesn't mean that it's not worth every single bit of it okay um next on my list was andrew basilewski and he's probably higher on your list i'd imagine well he's the one so he's actually the one i was talking about where i think i might be too desensitized and that's the part where I don't have him, I didn't have him on the list. And that's something where I'm kicking myself right now as we've been talking it out live, just because I think I'm a bit desensitized to what he does.

He is, and I'm kind of regretting that right now. And I'm debating, I'm thinking about that as we go right now because he's, he is so, he has, I think it's just a history thing where I've seen so much of him And I just kind of, you talked about Chesterkin as being a little bit numb to it. Maybe I'm a little bit too numb to what Vlas Vassaleski does on the regular. And I think that's kind of my problem here. So I'm going to give myself a demerit for that.

But I'm also struggling to see who I would take off my top 10. So I'm struggling right now. As I look through this, my top 10, I'm struggling to see who I would take off. So, but I don't have Vasaleski in there. But that's, I think it's a little bit more of, hey, he's done this for forever. And maybe I'm being a little bit too harsh there. But that's no, I think I think that's fair. I just think there's an element to still, and I'm with you in terms of the longevity,

just the freakish nature of seeing someone that large be as flexible, I guess, as he is. The only real proof that he's not a cyborg physically is, I guess, that he had to go have that back surgery at the start of last year or whatever, although even a lot of these machines these days are having to get call back in and have factory resets and everything. so maybe he is still a cyborg and that was just what happens. But yeah, his flexibility and some of the stuff he can still just do physically is just a spectacle, I guess. And so it's certainly not where it was a couple years ago, but I just still think from a pure like, wow, this guy can just do stuff that a human body should not be able to do and there's no one else really they can. He's still on my list and that's why he's seven, but obviously lower than he would have been previously and might be for other people. bit higher than he was on yours.

Who's next on your list then? Yeah. Yeah. So I had, so, and so we're at, we're at six now, right? Because you had, you had Sturkin at six, right? You said? Yep. So, and I've got the aforementioned Joey DeCourt at six. We talked about him quite a bit already.

I've got to court, I've got to court at six. That's my, that's my spot for him. And I, we talked quite a bit about him. He's, I love the way he approaches the game overall and everything like that. So I think that takes us into our top five here now, right? Very exciting. We've already talked about my fifth goalie. You mentioned him.

He was a bit lower on your list, but still in your top 10, Lucas Dostow. We don't need to repeat that. And my fifth is Markstrom. We both have, we've talked about both. We both have who we have. My fifth was Markstrom. You had a little bit lower on that.

The, and you've got the, and you've got Dostela at 5. Like those are both guys. we, you can make a case for top five for both of them in my mind of how, of how things go here. Okay, who's four on your list then? Four, I'm going with, uh, I've got Dustin Wolf at four. And now part of this is the, uh, I mean, he's, I love watching Dustin Wolf play.

I love the, what he brings. I love the, there's a little bit of the shiny new toy element at the same time that adds some, some to it as well. And it's, uh, it's, it's, where and with what he's doing behind for me there's you add there's the success element too if you look at how Calgary looks when Vladar is in that versus him and it's just a world's a difference too and so that to me is so I got Wolf at 4 same I think he's been full marks this season so fun to watch just his competitiveness and battle and the saves he makes and like how low he gets and how

different he is than pretty much all of his peers. It's been so fun to watch and he's been so good as well along the way. And so I think that's really encouraging and validating to see that you don't need to be 6'5 to succeed in this position. Not necessarily. He's kind of the obviously the exception that helps reinforce that rule, I guess, for a lot of GMs. But it's fun seeing him succeed the way he has and he just does it in such a different way than pretty much everyone else. And so I really enjoy watching a had him four on my list as well. We're getting into our top threes here. I'll go next. Number three. And this is cheating a little bit because I mentioned sample size earlier and I generally would want to see a bit more before I felt comfortable putting them in my list. But the viewings I've

gotten of them have been so exemplary in so many ways that I just had to, I couldn't do this list without including him. And that's Yaroslav Ascarov. He's only played eight games for the sharks this year, 11 games at the NHL level as a whole over the past three years. But man, talking about the full package of everything I just listed in terms of my wants, in terms of the athleticism, the highlight real saves, the unique nature to their game, the risk taking. We saw him earlier this year in Edmonton, like, toe drag, a forechecker for no reason. It didn't even lead to anything.

Like, it's still on up just going to the wall and leading to another battle. So it wasn't even a zone exit. But, like, he just has unbelievable swag and willingness to try whatever. the quotes and everything after the games that you've seen. I just love his attitude about everything. I think he's going to be a legitimate star moving forward. He gives the Sharks team that's not very good, obviously, a chance to beat anyone whenever he's in net.

And so I just can't get enough of them. I want to watch so much more. And I think he's already top three in terms of entertainment value and bang for your buck. Yeah, I want to be clear to everyone on the air here. We intentionally did not share our list before doing this. So I do have Ascarov at 3-2. And when him and Wolf played against each other last month, I called it my Super Bowl. I made sure I had an extra cup of coffee, stayed up late to watch them go ahead.

I love Ascarov. I love the personality. I love the I love everything about all the stuff you mentioned. And I love the way that he embraces that hockey is supposed to be fun. And that's something that just his entire personality is about that. and it comes through in his play. Like, so it's, so that, that's, yeah, Ascrov is, you and I have the same spot, so we couldn't agree more here.

I'm fascinated now to see if we have the same guys at one and two. Also seems like someone who just projecting forward when the sharks are good and he's winning a lot is going to be someone that's going to relish that so much as well. Obviously, you've seen him in the HL, right, doing the pushups with the net and like just embracing all of it and everything that comes with winning. And so I just think the sky's the limit from an entertainment. your perspective for him. Number two on my list,

and I'm curious to see if this mirrors you. We're whittling down our list here, so there's only so many guys left. Peter Kachekhov, who has a very, very fair case this year from being number one from just peak chaos. I fear for his life every time he's in net because he just comes out wildly

and fully charges towards, a skater moving full speed at him. He's taken a bunch of hits. If I'm the Hurricanes, I'd be incredibly worried about him moving forward because you look at their goaltending depth chart and Freddie Anderson, who's been on IR since October, just got activated.

So he'll be back. But obviously with his laundry list of career injuries, I think it's very scary to rely on him as well. And so you're looking at that, it's like, all right, if something happened to Ketchikov, it'll be Dustin Tukarski and Spencer Martin. And that's why the hurricanes keep being bandied about in the goalie trade market.

But man, Kachetkov is just such a loose cannon. And he's still been doing it for short enough period of time where the act hasn't grown stale or old, in my opinion. He had this play against the Islanders earlier this year. I'm sure you saw the clip where the puck's like flying past him and it's going to go over the net. And he just in midair just throws his paddle at it for no reason, which I don't even know if it's legal.

But he just did it. and he just talking about like technique and rules and all that stuff, whether it's actual rules or unwritten ones, he just throws that all out the window and just goes for it. And so talking about fun at the position, arguably no one has more fun than he does playing, playing as an NHL goalie. Yeah, I'm assuming you and I flip-flop one and two

because I have a check-off at number one. And I just, I, for everything you mentioned, I love this game so much. I think it's Corey Lavaleta, I think, has been doing a Kachekhov stick drop counter for the season. Just every single time he drops his stick and goes and basically, I'm assuming the paddle toss counts as a stick drop too. I don't know if there's a separate paddle toss. I love Kachkov. He is chaos.

Like, it's like, it's like it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's chaos incarnate, which is kind of funny to think about where the whole hurricanes cause chaos thing or whatever. Like, nothing the hurricanes. do with the forecheck is actually chaos. That's all very organized by Rod, but by Brendan Moore. Kachecov is actually chaos. And it is beautiful, wonderful chaos. I have at number two, I'm guessing is your number one. And it was very close for me. I have number two, our boy, UC Saros at number two. And I'm assuming he was your number one. So that's, and it was very close for me, just going back and forth and it was just the at the end of the day paddle tosses and a little bit of the little bit of the wild chaos factor and the unknown to me is what put kachekhov over soros at the end when

i was putting them side by side and but saros i mean he's he's one of those guys you're watching and you're like this is the for one right like well height thing out of the way right away is the only goal he under six foot and in between the n hl and a HL this year, right? So it's not just like he's abnormal for the NHL. He's abnormal for anyone playing professional hockey in North America effectively. And the way plays the game, I watched that overtime last night, watching that three on three overtime last night between them in Chicago was just fun seeing how he was deciding he was going to push the play up and everything like that. Like to me, like UC Soros is the perfect example where people will be like, well,

anyone like look there's room for on sub six foot goalies look what UC Saros does and then you go watch what UC Saros does and you're like oh other people can't do what UC Saros does that then I so I love UC Saros and easily could have been number one on my list just more small margin of chaos factor for me when it came to debating one and two and despite the fact that the predators have had this season from hell or are so low understandings he still got like a plus 12 or something and goal save above expected, it certainly has not been his fault. A lot of it has just been the lack of goal scoring juice in front of him. I mean, the stuff I was mentioning for obviously incredibly different body type,

but everything I said about Vasilevsky of like being a one of one in terms of what he can do physically, that applies to Soros in a different way as well, like his skating ability at that position and that's not something you talk about a lot for goalies is just, it's like he's the Carter McDavid of goalies, not in terms of production, obviously, but, and although, Oh, he's been remarkably good in a top of his position for years now. But just like he does stuff that I think a goalie coach would watch and be like, oh God, I hope that my, the goalie that I'm coaching or especially for like lower levels for juniors, it's like I hope like young players, young goalies aren't watching this because then they're going to try to replicate it.

And they just like physically cannot do this. Yeah. Well, it's funny, right? because there's part of it that you want people to replicate, like the skating, the foundation for his skating, his edge work, the way he seamlessly moves,

and there's never any wasted motion. Like that I would want to replicate. But it's like one of those where, like if you're a goalie coach, you would like draw, like put a black box over the first half of his body. Like only watch his feet. Don't copy anything else.

You can't do anything else. Just copy his feet. Only the feet. Because the minute you try to do something else, you're going to pull yourself out of sorts. Of course. No, I just meant like from a risk taking perspective of like stuff that his skating allows him to do. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. From like his swimming like two feet out of the crease to challenge a shooter and then still be able to recover and get back in his net in time and make a follow up save is just stuff that if you're watching and you're like, hey, that was fun. Look how aggressive he was. And then you try to do it, but you don't have his skating ability. You're just not going to be able to actually pull it off. there's that clip and it's years old now.

I've tweeted it out in the past, but it's like, I don't know if it was in training camp or in preseason or what, but like all Predators, goalies and there's three or four of them are doing that like drill, like the lateral explosion to like hip swivel

and do a couple of strides. And like he's just lapping the other goalies that are doing it by such a comical about where like he's going back and forth and they're all moving. Yeah. Which it looks like a snail's pace. I'm sure it's completely regular pace

for a normal goalie, but he's just like sped up four times the speed of they're moving at. So, yeah, UC Soros is the perfect example of your comparison to McDavid. Look at the McDavid, sorry, not McDavid. Sorry, it wasn't McDavid who did. It was McKinnon against Bouchard last night, where you think like, like what McKinnon did to Bouchard in that game last night, where it's, Evan Bouchard is probably moving at a pace to defend most normal NHL-level skaters. Nathan McKinnon just makes everyone else look

like they're stuck in mud. They're in slow motion. Exactly. Yeah. And another thing I appreciate about Soros is despite the fact that he's smaller and you think wouldn't be able to handle it, 67, 64 or 64 games the past three years as well and is just such a workhorse. It's like him and Connor Hellebuck in terms of doing that. And so I think that's

incredibly impressive as well. And it's cool knowing that if you tune into a Predator's game, you're probably going to get to watch UC Saros. as well. And so I just think that availability is another feather in his cap. All right. Well, I think that's, that's it for our list. Shout out to 5433rd on my list, Tristan Jerry, who just missed the cut. And recently got waived as well. It was a tough call, but unfortunately didn't make my list. No, that was a really fun exercise. Obviously, a position that is kind of incentivized to eliminate fun in a lot of ways, right? They're trying to prevent goals.

goals and a lot of people equate goals to fun. But I think there's certain guys at this position that can just make the game much more fun to watch. And I think we did a good job of highlighting. Have you got any parting notes on either putting together this list or just a general position or exercise or any of it? Yeah. It's something that I hope that if anyone's listening to this or probably write something to accompany this to go aside, I get some nice brand synergy between the PDO cast and the Shapshots family of writing publications, which is one, but I like saying the word family of publications.

It is, I hope that people look at this and think like this is a fun way to play goalie. And I also think there's, well, there are some guys who aren't on this list because they're effectively boring. I think as the league kind of advances, right? And I've written about this before, and I've written the piece about how goaltending has become so robotic. And players have become able to effectively find holes and the RVH gets crucified all the time whenever it happens. It's goalies that are willing to be outside the box

and be problem solvers as opposed to just technicians are the ones that effectively make the NHL. Like, while there are some more boring ones than this list that never made this list of entertainment watching, all of them to be able to make the NHL and to be effective, you have to have a little bit of that problem solver. And so my big parting shot is more guys wanting to be on this list,

being unique, being unpredictable, where right now you go, if a team, and I talked to a goalie coach about this the other day, who goes in, because a lot of NHL teams, the goalie coach is the way. who they give the goalie scouting report to their shooters, right? A lot of times it's you just, it's the same scouting report for either goalie who plays.

It's like, all right, well, here's the list. Here's how they play. And they tend to be, maybe it's a little bit higher percentage blocker versus glove on this guy because he's a little quicker or slower on one or the other, where you go and you play against a Saros or an Ascarov or a Kachkov or a wolf. And all of a sense, like, hey, he's different. You have to be, you have to, you have to, you have to prep differently.

And I think it just makes the game chess match between shooters and shooters and goalies more fun. So more fun is what I'm going with on this. It's also becoming so brutal in terms of like just over the past whatever 48 hours of watching three really good goalies who have all played well this year, Jacob Markstrom and Jake Godinger versus Austin Matthews. And then what Connor McDavid did to Philip Gustafson the other day as well, all three. very similar where shooter coming down the left flank, there is a bit of a cross-ice threat where that's at least in the back of the goalie's mind in terms of playing the percentages and keeping themselves available to explode laterally if that pass does come.

And two great players in Matthews and McDavid just short-eyed high, just picking a window and beating the goalie who's having to cheat a little bit, which in the grand scheme of things is the right play, as we've talked about, because that cross-ice play is just so much more efficient than just the one-on-one shooter versus goalie shot that you're lining up. But those guys are just able to execute at a level than most others can. And so the goalie winds up looking bad, but that's just kind of the reality of the situation for a lot of these guys. I think the other thing that we take away from this list from an entertainment perspective

is if you're rooting for a goalie entertainment perspective, we're hoping for a Sweden-Finland final at four nations, aren't we? A little Saros-Markstrom versus, because I think that's the highest ranked entertainment value we'd be get based off guys who actually got picked for this list, right, from if we're picking from a goalie perspective. I think that's, uh, because Hunter Lelbuck will play for the U.S. It'll be boring and effective. Canada will be, I don't know. We got a couple guys on. I mean, we might see a little San Montembo. Yeah, of course. I mean, we might have seen, we might see some Montepo. And, but it's, uh, and hopefully in the few, hopefully at some point, like Justin Wolf's American, hopefully at some point he is able to

prove his entertaining entertaining approach can put him into this into the top three Americans and everything like that. So that's, Markstrom versus Soros, give me,

give me that match up, I mean that match up twice at Four Nations. Give it group play and championship. That'd be fun. That'd be fun. All right. Well, I actually wanted to,

I left the door open before. I wasn't sure how long this exercise would go. So I wanted to talk a little about the Red Wings. They continued their strong play with another win. In Florida, I'm very intrigued to watch their upcoming stretch, right? Because as you've been noting on your website,

they've been taking care of business against a relatively soft schedule for the most part to start. John McClellan's tenure coming up to close out the month at Tampa, at Dallas, at Philly, who they're competing with for the wildcard and versus Montreal as well. And then Tampa Bay, L.A. and Edmonton to close out the month. So certainly going to be a test. But at least watching that power play so far has been just other world. it's almost like you take a penalty and they will beat you. I tweeted this stat, but they've scored 16 power play goals in the past nine games now in 46 minutes of man advantage.

The Kings and Ducks have 16 power play goals all year. The Highlanders of 13 and 44 games played. So what they're doing right now is obviously just tore it and outrageously hot. But it's carrying them a lot. And it's a power play that's also obviously not at this level because this is just absolutely nuclear. but has been really good and really efficient for a long time now. This is just taking it to the next level. So as long as this continues,

it'll be really fun to watch. It's funny to watch too because that's how the Red Wings penalty kill used to be. Like it's the inverse of what was happened in Detroit games for a long time. It just feels like it just kind of flipped, right? Where for Detroit games it felt where whenever Detroit took a penalty, well, this is a nuclear disaster for the Red Wings. Now it's kind of flipped a little bit, which has been one of the fascinating trends, if you want to call it, from the coaching change.

And it's, it's, it's interesting because it's like, it's amazing to me. And I'm not sure how much credit to give to Todd McClellan and, and obviously, Alex Tangay runs the power play in Detroit. So it's still the same guy running the power play. So the power play approaches not really changed. Like, and Todd McCollins has been pretty quick. about that. So it's, it's, it's funny to see how, and just wonder of like, okay, Dylan Larkin's been playing really great since the coaching changing. He was good before, but he's been playing really great. It's like, how much can sometimes having someone yell at you just be like, oh, I'm going to try

to play hockey again? Like, it's, it's one of those things I can't help but wonder about when you watch what's happening in Detroit because schematically, the approach, the power plate hasn't been different. It's the exact same thing, same guy running it, and it's, but it's, maybe the one change is Marco Casper's got a little bit more time on it, but that's, it's not like Marco Casper is the key to this whole thing going nuclear like it has. No, that's a good point. I was going to say, though, I have enjoyed watching Casper play 5-1-5 with Raymond and Larkin in particular, like being relied upon

in a late game situation to close out in Florida and making a nice play off the wall to set up the empty netter for Larkin. Seeing the strides that him and Edmondson and Raymond have taken this year have been really fun to watch. But let's circle back to this after, especially as they go through playing a higher quality of competition, I want to talk to you more about the differences in approach, I guess, between Lelon's time and especially at the end of it.

And then what you wrote about, like, McClellan's approach and handling of players and getting this different reaction from them and the stuff Teresanko was saying and just how, like, watching him just so playing. latently call out Justin Hall, which you just so rarely see a coach do that publicly and how it seemed to be greeted by like, yeah, we actually appreciate this. We want more of this. This is a nice, breath of fresh air was a very interesting development.

So we'll circle back to that next time I have you on. We'll get out of here for now. I'll let you plug some stuff on the way out, let the listeners know what you've been up to these days. Yeah, yeah. So I've got, I'm going to write something up over at my site, shapshotshockey.com. I'll go write something to accompany the episode we did today with the goalie watchability list here. Go check that out. You got some good stuff going through.

I still do a bunch of stuff with elite prospects. So got some good stuff going there. Another draft ranking come out soon. I think there's a meeting on Sunday. I'll be in with Mitch Brown and Cam Robinson and the crew there. So check out those places and everything. It's funny. I was at the All-America game.

yesterday and the they just put the you know like the the credential seat they put your name and they put your outlet um john the uh PR guy for you the USA NTDP had fun with it where it said Sean Shapiro and underneath the chap shots e slash EP slash red lines slash like I had four slashes for my for my for my seating chart which was great so uh basically everything ends up on Twitter and the blue sky and everything. And so check that out at Sean Shapiro and same handle roughly at Blue Sky at Sean Shapiro

than the dots and all the other little things. So check it out there. Let's add another slash slash author of the goalie watchability rankings on the video cast. Yes. Yes. This was fun, man. We'll check back in with you again soon

and keep up the great work. We've got one more show here to close the week out and it's going to be a banger. We've got Jesse Marshall on to do a film club episode on Zach Werensky and we'll deep dive all the tape from him this year. So we'll see you back here for that. In the meantime, thank you for listening to the HockeyPedio cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.