The Hockey PDOcast - Gustav Forsling, Wyatt Johnston, and Players Who Deserve More Love

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

Harman Dayal joins Dimitri to talk about Gustav Forsling, Wyatt Johnston, and players who deserve more love for their play this postseason.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey-Pedio cast. My name is Dmitri Filippovich, and joining me in studio today on this beautiful Friday, not outside, but inside here. It's beautiful. My buddy, Harmon Dyle, what's going on in? Doing great, man.

How are you? I'm good. I'm excited. I mean, this postseason has been so fun to watch Runditiam your perspective, and today you and I are going to talk about the two games we saw last night, some kind of takeaways from it. I wanted to, more so than doing like the traditional deep dives or breakdowns of the games themselves, I wanted to kind of highlight some individual performances, particularly guys who I think

aren't getting maybe attention that they deserve or how well they're playing. And so we can have some fun with that and just talk about in general what we saw from Panthers Leaves and Cracken Stars. Let's start with this. I want to talk a bit about Gustav Horsling. A player who I think is not. getting nearly enough attention for how well he's playing, right? Because Brandon Montour has the multiple multi-goal games in the postseason, some big goals for the Panthers, I believe he has six

goals already so far. Everyone always, you know, you know about Arnick Blatt. You talk about him. I feel like when you watch these broadcaster Panthers games, you're even hearing a lot about Radco Gutus and like how much he hits or block shots. Mark Stahl and what a veteran presence. How he's provided this stability for Brandon Montour to roam offensively and do what he's done. and lost in the shuffle a little bit has been Gustav Forzing, in my opinion, where it seems like every broadcaster has just gotten the one note where it's like, this guy was claimed off waivers, and that's the extent of Gustav Forzling analysis or praise. And he's been so good for them that I wanted to talk a little bit about him here and kind of

highlight his game and sort of some of the stuff he's done. Like dating back to the regular season, of course, but particularly so far this person. Yeah, it's been a huge step that he's taken, especially because when you look at this Panthers blue line on paper, right? Despite Montour's breakout, it's not a great top four. It's not a great blue line in general, especially we've spoken a lot about McKinsey Wigger's departure and the impact that had. Eckblatt, obviously having a down season compared to last year when he was playing at a borderline Norris level. So for me, the blue line was a question mark. And that's where Montour's sort of leveled up and Forzling has quietly played such an essential role. He sort of

fits the MO of how the Panthers like to play, right? Where it's like, like, okay, we don't necessarily in the back end have any shutdown aces. So how we're going to defend, how we're going to try and be effective at 5-1-5 is we're going to have guys press. And of course, their forecheck has been so effective in this series, forcing the Leafs to turn a lot of pucks over. And that's where a guy like Foresling is so key in terms of his skating ability to step up aggressively and provide that second layer,

because if you have, let's say, an aggressive forecheck in terms of forward groups, but your D aren't there to close the walls and make it difficult for the opposition's wingers to make those little bump plays into the middle. It's just not going to work. And if anything, you're going to get exposed because your forwards are then caught up high and there's a big gap between your forwards and D.

So I think his north-south way, it's just a perfect fit for how the Panthers like to play. Well, this regular season, he was amongst all defensemen, fifth and five-on-five goals, 11th and 5-15 points. He was their number one player in terms of usage, and he played that way. And so far this postseason, it's kind of been an extension of that where he's averaging

25-06 per game right now without any real. Like, they haven't had that triple over time sort of game yet. They kind of like, oh, he played 41 minutes tonight, and that skews the average. Like, this has been a very consistent 25 minutes. With him on the ice at 515, the Panthers are up 13 to 6. In game two last night in particular, you know, he scores the big goal kind of getting involved. Like, there was a lot of focus on the turnover the Leafs made, and part of that is because I believe that was the ninth goal so far this postseason that the Panthers have scored within five seconds of a defensive zone. It's actually more than that, because I think that's maybe more.

I think that's Jackie Redmond one, right? Right. That was before Verhege's game one goal. So that would, Berhege would be 10. Yeah, it was eight in the Bruin series. So that's been the 10th one. Yeah. So it's ridiculous, right?

Because I think that was what, their ninth game so far this year season. and he jumps in on the play of that, right? It was a little give and go. Chuck passes to him cross seam. You can see, like, his understanding of getting involved there and kind of jumping into that lane, dashing in, and then beating, you know, the Samsonov, who's out of position with the shot.

And then at the end of the game, what was notable to me is with about, I think, a minute 28 left, there's a defensive zone draw for the Panthers, right? After the Leafs have just been pressing them for five, six minutes in a row trying to get that tying goal. There's a timeout call by the Leafs, right? Every player has a chance to theoretically get their rest. You know the Leafs are going to bring out their best offensive players.

Paul Maurice brings out Gustav Forsling and Radco Gudis as his defense pair there. They get the job done. They eventually clear the zone. Forrezzling in particular does a nice job of kind of like sprawling out and taking away that little tick-tac top pass that the Leafs like to do behind the net out front to Barras or O'Reilly. And they close out, right? He preserved the lead.

And so just his usage, the trust that. the coaching staff has him, and then how he's playing, as you said, with that North-South and how it's like a perfect representation of what the Panthers are trying to do. I don't know. I just, I love his game, and I just think, like, the attention he's getting is not nearly commensurate with, like, his impact on this team, because I think if you pulled an average viewer that's just, like, listening purely to the broadcast, it isn't necessarily thinking about this stuff.

Isn't there free time? Of course. They're probably like, oh, yeah, like, Monter, score a bunch of goals. I know. Eckblad, of course. Yeah, he's been there for a while, and then maybe you'd get some. you'd probably get the foursling third on that list, right? But I honestly think he is like, he's their most important defensemen.

He's their most relied upon defensemen. And I think like that all just kind of bears it out beyond just the goals. Absolutely. And he spent so much time with Aaron Eckblad for, I mean, this entire year, right? And that's where with Eckleblad this year, it's felt like whether it's a byproduct of the injuries, you know, whatever it is, he hasn't been nearly as good this year. and you can sort of see that his foot speed in particular, sometimes defensively, can be a bit of a concern. And that's where Forreling has been essential because of how quickly he can close gaps,

where his speed and his mobility has been able to sort of complement what Ekblad brings to the table a lot better. And so they're able to balance each other out that way. So I think that's really helped that pairing work in these playoffs really well. Whereas if Forrestling wasn't on that pair, I'd probably be a little bit more worried about Eckblad because you look at the defensive metrics in the regular season, Ekblad's numbers were, in terms of whether you look at shots against, chances against actual goals against.

At 5-1-5, they were the worst among Panthers' defensemen. And you haven't noticed them at all in a bad way. And I think a lot of that is because, ironically enough, Foresling has made such an impact on that parent to sort of stabilize things. Yeah, Brooks Capcombe right now. Just punching air. He's like, no, his movement, I think, is very important here, right? His ability to kind of backtrack and cover for mistakes and get back involved in the play.

Because I was thinking about this, like, it's such a good point you made there about how, because the forwards are so responsible for being aggressive on that forecheck, if the defensemen aren't into or that and equally involved, then you don't have really that connectivity, right? And then there's just a ton of open space and you get it past that first guy. And all of a sudden, the leaps forwards, I just have plenty of room to skate, right? And in this case, it feels like watching these games, as well as this blue line is playing for the Panthers, other than Foresling, if all of a sudden a guy gets caught in space and has to retreat and cover against the puck carrier, it's like you're really holding your breath and you're like, oh my God, this is going to be a disaster, unless it's Gustav Forsling because his movement is just so smooth that he can get from point A to point B and cover for whatever openings are there. So I think, and he uses it offensively, and we noted that, but I think defensively in particular,

is kind of the important distinction. Yeah, especially, as you mentioned, sort of defending entries, and that's a big part where Weeger was so good at that, gaping up, being able to read the play and just take away that time and space. And so losing that skill set with him, it's even a greater shortage now for the Panthers,

and you look at Forzling and you're like, all right, we really need you to be able to, you know, when you're on the ice, sort of ensure that you can defendants base and defense speed and try and lock down the opposition game. Well, and I think it was a larger point, the reason why this is so interesting to me is I joked about how, you know, everyone by now knows that he was claimed off waivers and that's how the Panthers got him, right?

The Canucks drafted him. They traded him for Adam Glendan. I traded the time where I was like, well, I'm kind of interested in Adam Glendan. He's been putting out some pretty good numbers in the HL. and that was one of the early Ls that I took in terms of player evaluation, certainly. But then he also got traded for Calvin Dahan as well to get to the hurricanes in the first place. And I think there's this idea that, you know, to get really good top pair or even top four defensemen, it's like you have to draft these guys and you have to draft them high because that's the only way you can get it.

These guys just aren't available. And then time and time again, we see especially players who like don't necessarily produce a ton of offensively, did note he was very productive at 5-1-5 this year, but aren't necessarily like, you know, don't have a cannon shot that's scoring a ton of goals or don't do any sort of obvious offensive things. They generally, they don't slip through the cracks, but I do feel like they become more available than you'd think, right? And maybe I'm just like, I've got John Marino on the mind as well, a different player than Forsling, but also like moves really well, just a very good hockey player, doesn't necessarily have one sort of discernible skill, but you put it all together, and his team is

better on the ice when he's not. He was available this summer. Guys like Foresling are available, not necessarily. The waivers is an extreme example, but I think it's maybe a bit overblown that you can't find good productive defensemen in, like, creative ways, right? Especially if you know what you're looking for. You can, although, I mean, I guess DeVontes would be another example. But, I mean, maybe I'm just jaded from watching the Canucks and being like, oh, that's why

I said you have to know what you're looking. Yeah. Because you can certainly get defensemen anywhere. Yeah. Unless you're looking for the right things, though, they might not necessarily give you the results. Now, a lot of it is time and place and also, like, finding the right spot opportunity, as we said, like, it's perfect for how the Panthers want to play, right? I think if Forsling had gone to some other environment and was playing a different role,

he might not necessarily have had this type of career arc, right? So that is certainly at play here, but I just, I don't know. I feel like these guys can be found if you are on the cutting edge in terms of, like, what you prioritize from your defenseman, right? Because I bet there's still a lot of people that are like, Gustav Forrestle, I don't know, he's like, he's kind of undersized. Yeah. A bit too risky. You can't have him there for important defensive spots.

And it's like he's out there at the end of a road playoff game in a defensive zone shift for preserving a one goal lead and doing just fine. So. Yeah. No, that is a good point. And I mean, there are usually at least like two, three defensemen, I feel like per year. Maybe more that random, like don't get acquired for a lot and end up playing. huge roles. I mean, you even think about, and this is an older example, but when the avalanche

initially acquired Ryan Graves and the impact that he was able to make. And of course, since then, people recognize his value and because the expansion draft, you have to go to New Jersey. But, yeah, I mean, you are, you are right. But you're right. It has to be like a cut, like, you have to be an organization that's on the cutting edge and you have to really know what you're looking for. Yeah, certainly. Okay. Sticking with that. series. I also wanted to talk about William Nealander because he's been a as usual it's like an annual tradition right playoffs come around and and it's a hot button topic that everyone wants to talk about and certainly um you know he hasn't produced in terms of goals yet uh in his eight games the leaps

have played he's got 0515 goals just the two secondary assists right and in game one there was his play off the puck in front of their own net and and in defensive spots was was highlighted as a problem, right? And that's kind of been a recurring thing. And then in game two, he has the turnover in the neutral zone that leads to, I believe, Barkov's goal. And so a lot of that has kind of been brought back up to the surface as like, ah, like, we're doing this again. And just, I don't, there seems to be it's like a gap in terms of the way he's talked about and what I'm personally watching when I watch these playoff games, because to my eye, he was the best player on the ice in game two, even though he didn't score, but for whatever, like, I know,

I know it's not for whatever reason. I just said what the reason is, but he's, like, highlighted as the problem rather than a good thing that the leaves did. Yeah, and there's a critical difference between a guy that isn't producing and a guy that, like, isn't even creating chances, right? There's, in a case of Neelander, it's clearly a case of you watch him, and he really looks like he's on the cusp of breaking out, look, there's no doubt about it in terms of production-wise, you need more from him.

And if you don't get it, the rest of the series, the Leafs are going to be in trouble because they're going to be overly reliant on Matthews and Marner to carry the load offensively. But you're right. He was outside of that turnover, which, I mean, you stuff to factor it in. But, man, what was it, two posts that he hit? He hit two posts himself, and then he passed the puck out to John Tavares, who also hit the crossbar, I believe, in the second period.

And that was all in, like, a short sequence. And in the third period was, I think the first time we've, in these playoffs have really seen the Leafs full throttle I feel like at their absolute apex best and the Panthers

were hanging on for dear life exactly and it really looked like Neelander was the one driving the bus for that he was the one

leading the charge and the key too was I felt like he was assertive in taking the puck to the net and sometimes this is one of the areas

that I can understand why it's been a criticism in the past where you see the flashy skating around the perimeter of the offensive zone and some dinosaurs sort of go, oh, he's just a perimeter guy. But when he's at his best, you really do see him not only use the speed, but he's able to leverage his hands to get in on the inside and forcefully drive to the net.

And that's the key for what I feel like made him so dangerous in that game. Yeah, I don't know. It bugs me because I'm not sure if you caught this, but the other night Dallas Eakins was on the broadcast, on the intermission panel, right? And he made this point about how 80% of the game is played along the boards or along the wall, right? And everyone was like, wow, that's like such a good point. And also that's such a large period of the game. That's something I didn't really think about.

Well, what do you think the boards are? The boards are the perimeter, right? It's like a lot of the game is played out there. I don't, when we, like, I know that I know what you're saying in terms of like, there's certainly times where skilled players in, a playoff series against the, against a difficult opponent can be like held to the outside. And they're trying to probe through, but they just can't, they're turning it over, they just can't get in there.

And then, so they're left taking these low percentage shots. And I just don't, I refute that that's what's happening here. I think you could like isolate individual clips throughout the course of a game and be like, oh, well, he was on the perimeter here. But then he literally leads the Leafs in like every single scoring chance, the inner slot, off the rush, every single possible way you want to slice and dice it. And so it's just not really matching up with the way it's being perceived, right? Like, yes, you need to, a lot of the game is played on the perimeter.

Now, eventually you have to break through. And he's also been doing that. It just hasn't been going in, unfortunately. And so that's the discrepancy. Now, there's less runway, I guess, in the playoffs for a regression to happen, right? It's like, in the regular season, if a guy is putting up these numbers where he's not scoring, but he's generating chances, you and I would be like, well, give a time. It's going to have you trust the process.

but now if the Leafs lose two more times in the next five games, their season's over and they're at home, and it doesn't really matter what that process was. So I understand the angst from that perspective, but it just feels like it's sort of being misdirected, I guess. Well, isn't the Neelander the perfect encapsulation of game two for the Leafs in general, where, okay, he generates a lot of chances, an overall, by and large, great game for him, but A, he's getting stymied by Bobrovsky.

B, he just can't buy bounce. And C, for all the good that he did, there is one catastrophic sort of giveaway that the Leafs give up on a platter that the Panthers didn't. I feel like that was really the story of the game in general where you look at it and go, it was overwhelmingly good,

but you just couldn't buy a break, couldn't buy a bounce, just couldn't be Bobrovsky, and then just won that one giveaway, that one turn. turnover just costs you because of how opportunistic the Panthers are in capitalizing on turnovers. And that somehow, that sometimes is the difference between winning and losing in the playoffs, right? Yeah, through these two games in this series, Neelander, Matthews, and

John Tabaras have 35 shots on goal, 22 high danger chances, and have combined for zero goals in that time. And so part of that is bad luck. Part of that is Brofsky probably playing over his head, right? And you'd have to think that there's going to be a game. coming here at some point where they just capitalize on a bunch of those and score seven goals as a team or something and those guys are responsible for it you just hope that happens in game three i guess before it gets two out of hand but i don't know i just i've got him down for in game two new lander had four scoring chances at five-on-five he set up three other scoring chances and he was responsible for 14 five-on-five shots for the leaves and either taking them or setting them up like

it was just about as dominant an offensive individual performance as you're going to get without scoring a goal. I guess without scoring a goal is kind of the key part of that sentence. But I just, it bugs me. It's the discourse with the Leafs is never going to be rational, right? Like there's just so many voices from different angles and it's like sometimes it's the lowest common denominator in terms of hockey analysis. But it just bugs me when it would be one thing if he wasn't getting these chances. Then I'd be like, all right, he really needs to produce. But at this point, it's like, what more can you do beyond just the puck going in for you? So yeah, no, that's totally fair. And the other thing, too, is he's proven that he doesn't, like in past playoffs where everybody was criticizing the Leafs for their first round failures and Marner was sort of melting down or Matthews maybe was going quiet in, you know, games five, six and seven when during elimination games, Nealander was the guy that was consistently stepping up. And you see it where all got like, I feel like almost every player has had.

a period where at least one or two series where they just go quiet for a bit. You know, it's just inevitable. Every offensive player is streaky because you're not, unless you had Leon Dreisel, I guess you're just not scoring in every single. Exactly. And so the yielding is long term playoff track record is strong enough to where you can, again, I understand the angst from the perspective of, okay, like, we can't afford to lose game three.

Yeah. So we need it to happen now. And you're going to be judged as an offense, as a top offensive player, you're ultimately going to be judged on how many goals you either score or help create, right? Yeah. And I just said there's been zero at 5-1-5. And so that does make sense. But it just, I guess my issue with it is it's being sort of attributed to like a lack of effort or caring or not being like a playoff performance.

Exactly. And I just feel like that is the laziest form of analysis that doesn't really match up with watching. watching these games. This isn't even an analytics versus eye test thing. It's like, how can you watch that game and come away from that with that being your take, unless you had a pre-existing axe to grind or a pre-existing sort of angle that you're trying to push? Absolutely. And that's where, again, I was going to say, like, the long-term tracker matters there. It's like, this guy is typically always produced in the playoffs. I understand it, yes, output wise, performance-wise, it's been disappointing not to get the, not to get the results, but this

shouldn't be a relitigation of, is William Neelander a playoff performance? or is he a core player you could trust in the postseason? Yeah, but those are the headlines that generally salarate. So that's the way you got to go. I don't know. Is there anything else from that series? Like, we'll go to break here, suit, and then we'll do Stars Crackin on the other side.

Is there anything else from those first two games that you wanted to kind of highlight or caught your eye? It is interesting that they only have one game, I believe, in the next five or six nights, because there's an extra day off in between games two and three and four. and I think that'll serve the, I mean, you could argue you could serve the Panthers well because they had such a quick turnaround from Game 7 in Boston to these two games and they play such a physically taxing style on their players that I'm sure an extra day off will help them.

But I just feel like for the Leafs, their best players or their most dangerous guys have been their younger players and the biggest issues for me have been like Ryan O'Reilly and Marks Yerdano and their, fittingly, they're older players. And so I wonder if those guys might actually benefit quite a bit from having an extra day off and that might make a difference in game through. Well, Elliot Friedman also made a great point that for Brovsky, he usually breaks down if you play him a lot in terms of a long stretch of starts. And that extra start could really help him in particular. It sounded like the people that, you know, where we're obviously in Toronto,

we're noting that he looked exhausted after that game. So I think it might actually favor the Panthers a little bit more than more than least. but you mentioned Giordano, that pairing was awful. Like they've got to do something with that with that third pairing. A Lilligrin in particular, I think, was worse. They were just overwhelmed by that forecheck. And honestly, it was nerve-wracking every time they stepped on the ice where it felt inevitable that they were going to make a mistake,

going to get hemmed in, and you were just holding on for dear life when they were on the ice. And I saw an interesting stat from Jonas Siegel in these playoffs, the Leafs have been outscored 11 to 4 with Jordano on the ice at 5 and 5. Yeah. Yeah, in like 112 minutes or something. And at the start of the postseason, that lightning series, a lot of that was being attributed to the Justin Holt because he's like a very easy scapegoat. Yeah.

Right? Like he just like looks so like unassuming and it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Must be this guy's fault. And then so they take him out of the lineup and it has not gotten better for Giordano. And at the point, I wasn't necessarily trying to alleviate the blame from Hull because he certainly was being like targeted and not playing well enough against the lightning. But the point I was trying to make was it seems kind of too convenient to just lay all the blame on him when I think a lot of the issues were the way the Leaves as a team were playing in the neutral zone, but also

his partner kind of leaving him out the dryer, putting him in positions where he had to do too much. And now you watch this. I mean, there was that one play in game two where it didn't even lead to a goal, but it was like Nick Cousins sort of just weave through the neutral zone and entered the offensive zone and then got it off to Kachok and Kachuk got a nice rush chance off and Samsonov stopped it. But re-watching that, I was like, man, Mark Sherrodana. Like, he was just sagging back so far and was clearly very concerned about the speed that was coming at him. And it was a very like old guy move where you're like self-preservation, right? He's like, I don't want to expose myself here.

So I'm just going to keep taking a few steps back. And in turn, that's what it creates the scoring chance. And that's sort of what's been happening. And I mean, it's not, he's, what, turning 40 here soon. And he's also playing a lot of hockey. And so I wonder how much of it is rest and how much of it is maybe he's just not really the player that he used to be. Because of defensive results were remarkable even as recently as during parts of the regular season, but it just has not looked the same so far this postseason.

He also had to take on bigger minutes in the regular season. So it's a case of it just feels like the workload has caught up. And of course, his minutes are down now in the postseason, not a lot, understandably. but the cumulative impact of a full 82 game season and then a grinding seven game, or not seven games, six game playoff series. Three over times. Exactly.

Against the lightning. It's a lot to ask for, especially because they, because Morgan Riley in the regular season wasn't at his best, it felt like they were sort of feeling some of the tougher sort of like defensive matchups by committee.

And that meant guys, guys like Jordano had to play a little bit more than maybe ideal. And also, I mean, I mean, the Panthers are a really tough matchup, both on and off the puck, because they just like, they only have the one gear and it's attacking. Yeah. So that's tough. It's, you know, with Lilligran, I've liked his play since he got back into the lineup in the offensive zone. I think you see a lot of the value provides in extending plays and, you know, making like nifty little extensions in the offensive zone in that way. But the skill set of having to go back against the heavy forecheck that pressures you and make a play under that sort of circumstance

is a very different skill set. Being a being sort of a traditional puck-moving defenseman doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be able to handle that. And I think that's where we've seen him struggle a little bit. And I know the Leafs were concerned about that. That's why he wasn't really playing in last year's series against Lightning and he wasn't at the start of this one either, right? And so we're seeing that crop up a little bit. And that would be concerning. But I mean, at the end of day they're down to nothing but you do have to there's a lot of positives to draw i guess right and it's like if sergey brabrovsky just falls off a little bit or the panthers are slightly less opportunistic on the chances they do get this could be a different story now i'm sure the bruns

are telling themselves that as well and they're at home now watching this series so that shouldn't provide necessarily too much comfort but it's not necessarily like full-blown panic time i don't think despite yeah using two home games it's it's strange because i actually had that feeling after, obviously after at the end of the game where I was looking at it and going down to O both losses at home, typically you'd be like really worried. You'd be close to panicking. And yet for some reason, it just didn't feel like that time yet. Obviously to a whole is is going to be challenging to come back from and the Panthers are playing some of their best hockey, but it just feels like Toronto's still in the cusp of breaking out, really. And like you

mentioned, oddly, I don't know if comfort is the right word, but I wouldn't be worried or panicking yet if I'm Toronto. But yeah, I mean, I would be worried, but I wouldn't be panicking. Yeah, I think that's the best way to distinguish it. Yeah. Okay, Haram, let's take a break here. And then when we come back, we'll switch gears and talk about the other series you are listening to the Hockey P.D.O.cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. Your number one spot for Flames Coverage can be found on Flames Talk with me, Pat Steinberg. Exclusive interviews, trusted insiders, and the latest news.

Listen live weekday afternoons and four or stream the Flames Talk podcast on demand. All right, we're back here in the Hockeystokeedyocast. I joined by Harmon Dile. Haram, let's talk about Cracken Stars. The stars bounced back in Game 2. It was a pretty, you know, at the end there, it got a little hairy in terms of like the Crack and scored that goal to make it four two, and then they pulled their goalie for a couple minutes and we're getting some chances. But for the most part, especially for the first,

I'd say, like, 55 minutes of that game. It was pretty decisive in terms of just where the game was being played, what the stars were doing, what they were accomplishing. And so that has to feel good for them. And coming away from that, you heard, I think Kevin B.XA was the one highlighting Wyatt Johnston during one of the intermissions. I wanted to talk more about him because he's been one of my under the radar sort of favorite players to track this season. And it was only his second goal so far this postseason, but I just feel like with the way he's playing, it feels like he's going to score a bunch more here. And he's going to become, if he isn't already a very like household name that everyone knows, not just people who are watching Stars games.

And so that's exciting because I feel like for our listeners here, I want them to jump in and be sort of the smart fan, right? I want to jump in and be early telling their friends who don't listen to the show. I mean, first off, they should be telling them to tune in and listen to video cast on Sports at 650. But I want them to be like, Wyatt Johnson. You should watch this guy. He's getting chances. He's going to start scoring some goals because, man, I've tracked four of the eight stars games so far this postseason, and he has 17 scoring chances in those four games by himself. And so just the two goals so far, one came last night. There's a lot more coming here, and I'm very excited about him. Well, his skill set is mature beyond his years. Yeah. Right? He plays like a veteran game.

Exactly. It's like you'd look at a 19-year-old who isn't, is pretty slight. It definitely isn't the biggest guy. And you'd go, all right, he had a good regular season. But typically you'd be going, maybe you're a little bit concerned about, okay, first-day postseason hockey. There might be some going pains. You'd typically expect that. But the way Johnson plays is kind of like you mentioned, this wily veteran style where he's so tenacious on the puck. They highlighted a clip of him winning a battle against, remember who the Cracken player was, but somebody way bigger than him, just stripping the puck. And the combination of smarts that he has, the combination of just how many bowels he wins with his stick and sort of tight, high traffic areas, and how he can get on the inside, it's so effective in playoff hockey. Like, that's the name of the game, especially because everybody talks about how in the postseason, how many goals are really, right around the crease or really in that inner slot and how difficult it is to get to those places. And Johnson's shown that he can consistently get there as a 19 year old who still over the years is going to pack on a little bit more size,

is going to become even more experienced, is going to be able to make reads at an even sharper level. It's pretty cool to think about the player that he not only already is, but that he will be once he has more experience under his belt. Yeah, I don't know if he's paying rent living at Joe Pavelsky's house right now, but he should be paying rent, like, living around the other team's crease because that's like, he is just eating there right now. And you're right, like, I think he's listed at like 6-1-19 or something. Like he's not, and you watch him and he's not necessarily. He's not undersized, but he's also, I mean, he's 19 years old, right? Like, he's not like a power forward necessarily. But through smarts and also being like clearly deceivingly strong. And then the hands as well, right, where like when he gets that puck in tight, he can be. make a play with it. It's allowed him to really be productive there. So this regular season, he scored 24 goals. 21 of them were at 5-1-5. That was more than guys like Tim Stutzla, Esper Brat, Kyle Connor, Alex Obetchkin, Leon Dreis Eidel. There have been 198 teenagers to play regular shift since 2007 in the NHL. He is 20th on that list out of those 198 guys in 5-1-5-expected goal generation. He was, he didn't get.

get recognized for it with a Calder finalist nomination. I imagine he'll probably, like, he was fourth on a lot of people's lists or whatever. I personally had him over Stewart Skinner on my, on my fake ballot, but I understand why, like, the counting stats weren't necessarily that sort of impressive, but it just feels like with the context of doing most of it at 5-1-5 in the, role that he played where he wasn't necessarily playing top minutes, man, like, he was very productive, he's going to score a ton of goals here the rest of this postseason. And, I don't know. I just, I wanted, I wanted to highlight him because I feel like this is a good time to get in while you still can before the elevator just go straight through moon. Yeah. And when it comes to guys that you're looking at where what it takes to sort of get those eye popping point totals, so much of it is just opportunity.

It's just, especially first unit power play time, which he obviously didn't get. So that, that's, I think, a product of a lack of opportunity more than more than anything else. And I don't mean that. that in a criticism way where it's like, oh, he should have had a way more opportunity, but it's just, you know, some guys are in situations where they're, they're just naturally because of the state of the roster or how, or they're on less talented teams, there just is more opportunity to step into more of those prime offensive situations. And really, I think with Johnston, for Dallas, it highlights how much they've improved compared to last season in terms of their secondary scoring, right? through a variety of factors. Obviously, Jimmy Benz bounced back and had him lost their year.

Dadaunov has been an excellent trade-deline pickup. I mean, you look at, they gave up Dennis Kirillana of who they wouldn't. They weren't going to qualify anyway. So essentially got him for free. I think he had 15 points and 23 games on the stretch and now four goals and eight playoff games. He's been fantastic for them. Max Dolmy's got seven points in eight games. Of course, signed Mason Marchman in the offseason, who adds another player.

He's to stop flopping. Yeah. I know this was a big round one topic where the wild were complaining or the stars dive and I don't think they necessarily as a team dive more than any other team. Everyone embellishes in today's game and you should. You should try to draw as many power plays as you can, considering how important they've been this postseason. But he had a couple in game two in particular.

I'll just like, dude, it's unnecessary. Your whole thing is that you're a big, strong guy. You don't need to be kind of playing this way. I think if anything, you should just embrace being even tougher and using your frame to stay on your feet. So, but yeah, no, you're right. The secondary scoring and the different ways, right? So Domi adds that kind of in game one when they were down and they were pushing and trying

to tie it and they did eventually sending it to overtime. His ability to kind of just north, south, create off the rush and enter the puck with possession played such a big role in that and really shine through the dawn of his like creativity and playmaking has really has really shined through as well. And yeah, this team's going to be adding Logan Stankovin at some point in the future as well. I mean, they've drafted quite well, but I'm really excited Maverick Bork as well. Like, they have a lot of guys who conceivably could contribute to this team on ELCs as soon as next year. And so that has to be exciting for stars fans.

Well, not only that, but also with Sagan, because of when Pavalski was out stepping into that top line role and fitting in like a glove, that's allowed them to use Bevelski in the second line, which is like, he's been, that gives them another. I mean, he did score the four goals. I will say, though, I'm not sure how much of this is, is a. affecting it at all, but Jason Robertson hasn't really played up to his regular season ability. So far this postseason, he's at flashes and he's gotten his points. But for a guy who, like, because he's obviously not the fastest player, right? Like, he just does, he strings together so many little, smart and, like, successful plays over the course of a game that eventually add up to

him being in a position to score. And it just hasn't come as easily for him this postseason. He's been making very uncharacteristic, like, little. Yeah, he's definitely looked off. Poc's balancing off him. He's looking a little shy in terms of actually playing a bit more of a perimeter game than he generally does in the regular season. And so could be purely a coincidence. I'm not sure, but I do think we will, like, we'll see Pavelski there at some point,

if only just to sort of get him going to give him a bit of that, like, familiarity in his game. Yeah, that's true. I'd been thinking, like, Robertson, it definitely wasn't looking like Robert, hasn't been looking like Roberts, and I just didn't, I should have been smart enough to connect that okay maybe maybe it's related to pavalski getting i mean it might not like it's yeah that's an easy line to draw might be totally no i think i think it's totally fair but it is nice for the start to finally have options and not be a team where it's like well last year it was like

the one top line isn't scoring they're just not yeah and in i mean there was a point too where even for them now long term the big picture that is so key for them because we saw with colorado in these playoffs, right? If you're relying on just one elite line, that's not going to take you very far in the, take you very far in the postseason. So for them to through all of these different players, obviously with what was Johnson being one of the more prominent ones, have this level of offensive contributions from the second and third line, that bodes well not only for this series where it gives them scoring depth that the abs didn't, relative to obviously. obviously the Crack and in trying to slow, slow them down, the Crack of trying to slow the stars down,

but also long term moving forward and in trying to sustain yourself as a contender, I think that's huge. Yeah. Is there anything else on either of these teams? Or do you want to take, we've got a couple mailbag questions here, but I'm going to carry out. I just want to quickly point out that I think it's huge at the Star's power play broke through in game two. I mean, that's an area where when you look at Seattle's penalty kill down the stretch in the regular season was really starting to excel at a big reason why, they were able to knock off Colorado was they held the abs to what was it an 11 12% power play in that first round series so they didn't like didn't take any to begin with exactly so that's

going to be an interesting trend moving forward because Seattle's penalty kill needs to get back to to where it was and they can't take obviously as um as many penalties yeah yeah no that's a big one I think one of the goals um it might have been the wide john someone actually came like five seconds after a power now expired and that basically is a power play goal as well. Okay, here. We've got a question that I'm kind of curious for your take on. It says regarding power play zone entries, and this is coming from, I think, a leaf sign, or at least it's attributed to the leaves, but I think we can take this for the league as a whole as sort of like a tactical question. Why do teams drop back all the time with a drop pass? Why would you want to

put every player from the opposition between the puck and the net? Wouldn't developing a quick breakout ahead would the primary attacker have a better success rate? I'm curious for your take. honest because I know this is like it's a very the drop pass on the power play is a um it's a polarizing topic right there's a big fans of it and then there's people that are just like it drives them absolutely crazy yeah so this is interesting because I remember around 2019 I did I did a bunch of conucks tracking regarding different powerplay zone entry types I'd categorize like four or five different set breakouts that they would try and this was at a time where everybody in Vancouver was just so sick and tired of the drop pass and what's funny is after track

tracking, I mean, I think a couple hundred power play entries, the drop pass was like by far the most effective in, in helping a team get set up in the offensive zone. When it doesn't work, it looks terrible, right? We know. But statistically, it just works more often than not, especially because the thing is, trying to beat a penalty kill with speed through the neutral zone are trying sort of a quick strike, catch them off guard. That doesn't work because a penalty kill when they recover the puck, they're covered down the ice, they're getting changed. They're not, they're probably not chasing you down the ice trying to hound the puck. They're already sort of in that set position and you need support around the offensive blue line

in terms of how many times on an entry do you see situations where it's like they kick the puck out to the walls and for a successful setup, they, they're not. need to be able to bump it down, bump it back into the middle or make that short little four to five foot pass. And it's done and it's orchestrated in a very small area of space where it's like that teammate, close teammate support is necessary. If you're trying to, I feel like if you're trying to go a quick strike,

you don't like you're going to be left in a lot of like one on two, one on three, two on three sort of situations where you're, you're not going to have enough of your own teammate support. It is also very personnel driven, right? Like if you have Nathan McKinnon or Connor McDavid or even the stars with the Rupert Hints where you have sort of like this kind of like supernova that can just take the puck and beat multiple people off the rush and get it in effortlessly that way, that's a good strategy.

But for a lot of teams, they don't have that player, especially if their best offensive players are kind of more, take a more methodical approach. So you take the least, for example, for my money, their best rush player is William Neelander, right? but he doesn't even play on their top unit power play right now. And so Austin Matthews isn't necessarily going to take the puck deep in his own and just carry it all the way up the ice. If anything, he's going to try to dump it in and then you're going to go after chasing it. And so I think that's why they're trying to kind of generate that extra speed,

the speed up, whoever is coming back to get it. And so I think that's what happens. But I actually disagree with you. I like it when teams try to attack off the rush on the power play more. I remember what was the year the Bruins Law? to the Blues in the Stanley of the finals. Is that 2019? Yeah. So I remember at that time, especially all like through the Eastern Conference finals, so through the first three rounds, like all of their power play goals and their power play was clicking really well at that time

were coming within like five seconds of either a zone entry or off the face off. And that's exclusively how they were beating teams. Like they weren't getting it in, passing it around, biding their time, and then after a minute of sustained pressure scoring. It was like quick hitting before the other team could get set. And it's easier said than done, but I do think that might be a bit of an underutilized approach. I think teams in general, just view it especially at the start of a face-off,

like if you lose the opening draw and it gets cleared, you're like, all right, we got a minute and 45 here. We're going to take our time. We don't want to rush. And so we're going to try to get set up in the zone slowly and then pick them apart that way. And I actually wish there was generally a bit more of a sense of urgency on a lot of these power plays.

I agree in the sense that it's effective as a mixing things up sort of thing. I just don't think it works as a primary strategy. I think that's where you can maybe you look at it as like if you really look at different entry strategies, maybe the percentage of times that you're trying to catch a team off guard because you're right. I mean, even with the Canox, a lot of times I think you'd see at least recently part of Quinn Hughes's evolution. I think on the power play was him realizing that, okay, this drop pass is like everybody's expecting it. So a lot of times he would just like snap a stretch pass while the penalty kill is changing to spring a guy like J.T. Miller off the rush or or some other sort of way. And it worked really

effectively. But it doesn't change the fact that the drop pass was still their go-to, like, primary strategy, if that makes sense. Like the, the, the, the, number like your default if that sort of makes sense. I agree in the sense that maybe the percentage of times that you try and catch teams off guard or try something else should work. I just think that you know, when I've done tracking the past, um, the drop pass is by far been, been the most effective. The key, as you mentioned, is just you can't turn to it every single time. Well, yeah, the predictability hurts certainly. And I think I wonder how much of this is going to change with how aggressively penalty kills are generally skewing. Like something I've really noticed is postseason is

when teams are having success on the penalty kill, it's when they're very aggressively, as you'd expect, stepping up the blue line and just simply not allowing you to enter with possession and establish yourself, because power players are getting so good now and so efficient, that once you get set in the zone, it's pretty much a matter of time until you at least get a good chance, if not score.

And in this case, when teams are stepping up, particularly with the top penalty kill units and really trying to disrupt and poke the puck and not allow you to do so, that's when sort of a lot of problems have been posed for some of these top power plays. And so I think that's going to be something that only continues more and more.

And so I'm kind of curious to see how much of that is going to change and whether there's going to be other sort of tactical advancements from a power play perspective to ensure that you're kind of combating against that beyond just sort of dumping it in and chasing after it. Yeah, it's interesting because when I sort of was diving deeper into power plays, you know, a few years ago, by far the most predictive stat for whether a

power player would score is the efficiency of translating entry attempts into getting set up. So it's like, that's really the name of the game and that's why even just winning the initial draw

off a power play is so huge. Yeah. That's actually where faceoffs offs in my opinion are wildly underrated. Yeah, exactly. It's a world of a difference if you get set up right away and you've got a full two minutes versus you know, if it's, if they get

the initial clear, you're already shaving off 15, 20 seconds there. And then sometimes, because it's not always easy to enter the zone, you might fail a couple times. And by the time you look at the clock, it's like 119 left on the powerplay and you haven't even gotten a chance to get set up. Yeah. And then some of these teams at that point are like, all right, well, let's bring on PP2 here. Exactly. God, yeah. No, it's, I mean, it's tough to ultimately quibble with because you look and power play efficiency is at an all-time high, and especially this postseason, and it's like through the roof in terms of how often teams are scoring when they're on the advantage.

So it's tough to quibble with the tactics of like, oh, we need to keep up with penalty kills because something isn't working. Like everything is working for the most part. But the interplay there between that as teams go more aggressive on both ends is really interesting to consider. All right. Harm, last question here from Kyle. Which series would you like to be a best of nine in round two?

Edmonton, Vegas. Yeah, that's what Kyle said. Personally, I'm going Edmonton and Vegas. I'm really enjoying this Leaves Panthers series. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more games of that. Maybe not all the, all of like melodrama and talking points that come from the games. But yeah, I mean, especially we've only seen one game so far of Edmonton,

Vegas. If that was an indication of how this series is going, then I would certainly sign up for eight more of those. But the answer probably would be Edmonton versus anyone, right? Yeah. I saw a tweet where it was like, win or lose, the oilers have to make a show of it, right? It's like, they just can't, they can't, like, win a regular game or just, like,

lose without some sort of crazy comeback effort where they score a bunch of goals and at least make it, like, it always is peak entertainment. Yeah, it's, it's been a heck of a series, and especially the tempo and the pace, and, you know, that it's going to be back and forth on, like, devils and, and hurricanes, for example, it's like, those are two evenly matched teams, but it's just, you know, it's going to be lower event hockey. Both teams are so disciplined. They're so structured. It's not, it's not as fun and flowing and there's not as much open ice in that series. And that's why Edmonton, Vegas has been so much fun. And for Edmonton, man, they, like, it feels like they're

a defensive and short on the right side. Vincent DeHarnay. Yeah. Especially in this series, it's a tough, tough draw for them with the speed that the Vegas likes attack with off the rush, right? it's a problem. Yeah, I mean, the way I look at it is Vegas on the right side has Zach White Cloud on the third pair. I would probably take White Cloud as an oiler's second best right shot defenseman after Bouchard. Others might disagree in terms of D.C., but I like White Cloud a lot. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. So that depth of Vegas's blue line is definitely their biggest advantage in this series.

Yeah. All right, Harm. Let the listeners know where they can check you out, what you're working on. now that the, now that the Canucks season is over and you're not spending every single waking hour watching Cadac's games, you have more time to indulge in some of those postseason stuff. Are you going to be doing more, more national content? Yeah, I'm actually going to be doing a ton of draft related coverage, especially with the lottery. Coming up soon, a bunch of video deep dives on some of the top guys like Mitch Kov and Van Tilly.

And this is a time of year when I'm starting to talk to scouts and trying to figure out, okay, where are their headspace is at? and it's been interesting to have those conversations, and I'm excited to work on this piece is over at the athletic. Awesome, man. Well, we'll have you back on soon to talk more playoff hockey. That's going to be a thrust this week here in the PDOCast. As usual, the only plug I have is go smash that five-star button

wherever you listen to the show and drop us some love and a nice little review. And we'll be back Monday with another week of PDOcast here on the Sports Night Radio Network.