The Hockey PDOcast - How the Panthers and Oilers won their Conference Finals matchups

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Thomas Drance to put a bow on both of the Conference Finals by taking a look at what the Panthers and Oilers did to win their matchups, and advance to this year's Stanley Cup Final. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Philipo. Welcome to the HockeyPedioCast. My name is Dimitra Filippovich. And joining me is my good buddy Thomas Tran. Tom, what's going on, man? Oh, no much. I'm excited.

I'm really excited about this Stanley Cup final matchup, Tim. I'm really excited about a lot of things. Should we set the scene for everyone? Yeah, let's see. Because I haven't told the listeners yet. I teased at the end of last week. I said there's going to be some new programming plan for the upcoming couple weeks. And that plan is we are both right now in Palm Springs.

I'm sure your listeners at Canucks talk already know, right? Yeah, 100%. So we're already checking up on me to see whether or not I went to Firebirds game two. We haven't yet, but we will probably go to game six or game seven. If the series goes long enough, sorry, Milwaukee's, or sorry, sorry to the Coach Coachella Valley fans out here. We're just cheering for a longer series. Yeah, we just want the series to go at least six. So we're hearing Palm Springs together for the next couple weeks, next two weeks, and we're going to do my show together from here.

Let's go. And so we've got a full week off here. It's interesting, right? Because I feel like so much of the postseason is a sprint because the NHL can't wait to start the next round typically, right? So it's like round one just bleeds right into round two. And then you're quickly trying to get together previews for it and recaps of what happened and get everyone ready for it. Now we've actually got a full week. It feels like a luxury.

We can marinate in it, which is great. We're going to take full advantage of it. I think today, let's use today's show as kind of like a wrap up. it is a Monday on what happened over the weekend kind of put a bow on the two respective conference finals and then we'll save, I'm sure we're going to step on the toes of it because it's impossible not to sort of get ahead of yourself

and think about what it's going to look like when the Oilers and the Panthers go head to head but we'll save like a mega Stanley Cup final preview for later in the week. And then next week, or on Saturday, I should say, once the Stanley Cup final game start, you and I are going to be recording the show after the games. So we're going to give people instant analysis night

of if you're watching the games and you're like, I need to know what to think about what I just watched. We're going to give them that because these special occasions and special times call for special measures. And with me and you here together in the same place, I feel like it's a no-brainer. We'll be watching the games. We'll be. So to further set the scene, I just want to note, you have so much Dallas Star stock,

and I have so much Edmonton-Oilers stock based on takes throughout the air. No allegiance beyond just we're both a couple guys who like hockey and like to be right about hockey. Yes. And so I feel like watching. watching the game with you last night, we could not have had a more disparate reaction to what we were seeing. And it was a very funny dynamic.

Now, again, it's not a rooting interest. There was no sort of difference there. It was just that I think for you, that game felt like this is what I've been waiting from the Dallas all series. And from my perspective, I was like, this is a desperate team and has no reflection.

They're just throwing stuff at the wall. And has no reflection. And then sort of at the end, I feel like by the time we'd talk it through. We had a opinion that was closer, but it was like a running argument between us based on our priors about the quality of those. Well, I think that is true. And I think that's where it gets into dangerous territory as for analysis and for our purposes. At the end of a series, you know, we always talk about score effects within a game. Right. I think there's certainly series effects as

well. And so it's clear that a team that's kind of facing elimination is going to be a bit more desperate. And then that's going to affect how the other team plays accordingly. And so spinning it forward and thinking about what's going to happen to Stanley Cup final, you don't want to put too much stock into what we saw from Edmonton in Game 6 because I think it's a clean slate and I'm sure they're going to approach that match up wildly differently than they did game six here to close out against the stars but do want to start with Panthers Rangers because sure I just feel like well let's do that and then we'll switch over and we'll do the West series and we're going to get into both of them and then we're going to kind of put it all together yeah and go from there um

Panthers Rangers I think you and I watched game six together with the Panthers closing it out over the weekend. And what really stuck out to me watching that game was just how little New York was able to generate offensively. Even what I just said about series effects, right? And the Rangers being this desperate team that's trying to stay alive and force a game seven back home in front of their home fans, they could not generate anything. I had scoring chances 22 to 8 for the Panthers in that game six. And it was a defensive clinic. Like the Rangers just for large stretches of time, we're not able to create anything. And I think it's easy to say, all right, well, you know, know, all of our priors were sort of confirmed here in terms of skepticism about their depth and

their 5-on-5 play and anything. But for me, I view this as a credit to the Panthers because defensively, it's been kind of under-talked about all year because they have so many big-name forwards, right? In particular, Ryan Hart scores, like 50 goals. Matthew Kachuk, even though he had a bit of a down year scoring-wise compared to last year. And so everyone focuses on this high-powered offense and all that. But defensively, they were a top two-to-three team by any single metric. And they have been once again this postseason. They're just not giving up any goals. They've given up 39 goals and 17 games this postseason.

And as this series went along, it became kind of really crystallized that once the Rangers couldn't generate anything on the power play, they just had no real sustainable source of offense. And that's what we saw in that game six. And I think it's been a theme for losing teams throughout this playoffs where if you can't generate quality looks at an elite rate, right? you can find yourself out of answers and then you're reliant on things like

Barkley Goddrow is on a shooting heater. Look, credit to Barclay Godreau, I actually am totally fine with the idea that Barclay Godro can raise his game and has been there before and is comfortable in those games. But when that's your source of offense, when that's the reason that that series

lasted six games instead of five, that's a problem. And with Florida in particular, I mean, it's what, one goal, five on five for the Rangers with Barkov on the ice. You know, like most of their damage coming at the bottom end of their lineup because of Godreau's shooting heater. You know, the Lundell line played well.

Obviously, the Bennett-Kichuk line played well, and it just felt like what you saw was two teams that were defensively good enough. Like, it's not like the Panthers ran rough shot over them five on five, although they kind of did in moments. They did from like... They certainly did with Foresling on the ice. They did from like, optically looked like that. Yeah.

From an actual results, like the goals weren't necessarily. really reflecting that. And part of that is because Igor's just playing so well. But certainly territorially, the ice was pretty slanted. But I feel like a lot of it was the Panthers limiting what the Rangers got by just

stacking up these heavy shifts as opposed to filleting them with like quality looks after quality looks after quality looks. It was like a lot of down low retrievals and a lot of, you know, the Rangers breakout turns, but gets turned back really quickly

as opposed to just like the dominance of the Florida Panthers offense. What it was was the dominance of Florida Panthers having a better answer for being able to still manufacture shots in an environment where both teams were like really robust defensively and the Panthers being at a different level defensively so that the Rangers couldn't generate anything but like a hope and a prayer that maybe they'd get a bounce or a good row goal that could get them a win. They just had no they had nothing to fall back on in terms of generating shots and it's not like the Rangers are not a great offensive team.

It's just that they're not at a high enough level to generate a. against Florida. Especially when their top guys just got taken out the way they did, in particular Mika Zabinajad. We're going to get into that here. But just while we're on the Panthers note, I think how they do it defensively is such a modern approach, right? But it's also so fun to watch because it's not just a matter of them.

We see teams have success defensively, like we've talked about the Canucks all year, for example, right? Not to bring it back everything to them when I have you on here, but you watch a lot of that this year where they have legitimate success, where it's like they can just control it a certain way. For this Panthers team, they just don't spend time in their zone. Like, it's not a matter of them having a strong defensive shell to insulate their goalie and then kind of like strategically out giving you shots from kind of what we saw from Vegas last year.

All of the pressure is down ice. They just don't spend time in their own zone. And that's what I'm already kind of breaking my own rule here by talking about what this is going to look like against the Oilers. But the Oilers rely so much on sustained offensive zone time. They were one of the top teams in the league at doing so. And that for me is going to be sort of the most interesting head-to-head. head kind of strategically who's able to get the leg up there if the Oilers are actually able to cycle the puck because the Panthers particularly atop the lineup against those guys have so many

play killers right you and I are watching and Barkov off the puck is just like he's reading you like a book he just knows exactly where the puck's going to go next and he just gets there first forsling just knocks the puck away from you and so it's impossible to string together those shifts it's not even a matter of all right we're not getting looks but at least we're spending time in the zone and getting shot attempts like you're not even getting that against them the way that Barcov owned the middle of the ice. And honestly, it was especially noticeable, I think, when the Rangers had power play time, like when he was killing with that Reinhardt, Barkov, Forzling, Ekblad first over the bench unit that, like, I really don't think enough

can be made of the fact that those four guys versus Edmonton PP1 is like the marquee matchup. Yeah. If you love hockey, it's like the best doing it on both sides. And I know the Oilers penalty kill is going to get most of the headlines going into this series. And it's, in my mind, it's like a misnomer. Like the heavyweight tilt here is those for, anyway, the way that Barkov kills possessions by just being way smarter than everyone else, it's almost unfortunate because none of them are highlights. None of them are even like subtle highlights. Like Barcov picks off cross seam pass without moving. Like he makes them look so casual that they're not even highlights. And it's like, he makes them. He makes them look so casual that they're not even highlights. And it's like,

he makes it look like everyone could do it. There's only one guy who does it multiple times a period every single game night in night out in the entire league. And it's this guy. It's unbelievable. It's uncanny. It's so cool. It is.

And I thought in this series, you know, he wasn't necessarily scoring a lot himself on like the previous round where he actually carried quite a bit offensively against Boston. He had his opportunity. Certainly the puck was just like weirdly bobbing him. I'm not sure how much of it was trying to sort of do something next level against Igor Shasturkin acknowledging that you have to to beat him. how much of it was poor ice at this point of the year. I'm sure it's a combination of those things.

He was in the right spots offensively. The puck was just bouncing on him. But defensively, I mean, they were getting, the Rangers were nothing against them. You mentioned the one, five-on-five goal in like nearly 100 minutes with him on the ice. And that's such an-27 shots. It's like, it's such an amazing, like a racer

to just basically have that and be like, all right, in particular, if we're going to use them the way they do with that Foresling pair and just going ahead to head against other team's top guys, it's such a luxury, and I think that's why you see the defensive results. Especially when you're then coming over the boards

with a secondary wave that has Kachuk and like a tertiary wave that has Lundell. Right? I mean, you know, who's, I'm not even the biggest Lundel fan, but on a third line, like, my God, what a luxury. So, you know, and I think the, I think the Canucks side of this. No, no, I'm serious. I honestly think it's not silly to bring it up because of what we saw Vancouver have success doing against the Oilers, and I want to be so clear that that success was more intermittent than any

Canucks fan pretending that the team was close. I would say game five of that series was probably the worst we've seen the Oilers for an extended stretch. And part of it was at home was sick, and so he played very few minutes and clearly wasn't himself. And so I think that's certainly baked into it. I'd add game one, though. I'd add game one into that mix. Part of that was, though, the Oilers jumped out that early lead.

For sure. And sometimes that can kind of skew it. And Drysidal left half that game. Right. But it continued when, even when the score got tied, and I'd add this, I'd add game three, which Vancouver won. You know, they get an early goal, but then they get two quick ones to take a three one lead that the Oilers just couldn't quite eliminate. Right. Off the back of two, you know, like a Warren Fogle and a Cody C.C.

Give away starting the breakout. So more than anything, all I'm saying is we did see the Canucks in the games that they actually defeated the Oilers have success with that pressure approach. the Panthers have some of that in their DNA. It's just that what they have in their DNA is like amped up, you know, significantly higher to a much higher level of execution than the Canucks, which I think is, you know, to break every role once again, is like honestly one of the main engagements I'm really excited to see in the Stanley Cup final. Yeah, I am as well.

I mean, I still think against this panthers team, this is true for pretty much everyone in today's game, but you saw it in this series. like the Rangers, when they were able to get good looks, it was off of these kind of broken plays in the neutral zone where all of a sudden they were just able to flip the ice and turn it into a two-on-one or a three-on-two and actually get a few looks.

And you're going to be able to get those against this Panthers team because they generally are so aggressive in having guys deep in the offensive zone that if you're able to get those opportunities, I think you can take advantage of it against them. The issue is those are few and far between. Yes. And that's why I'm so fascinated by this standing cup final matchup,

because the Oilers are thought of as this rush team, and certainly Connor McDavid is the best rush player ever. And when they're humming, they can attack that way, and they got plenty of those looks throughout the regular season. But what made them so dangerous and why all of their 5-on-5 metrics were so off the charts was because of that ground and pound by them, right? They were just able to lean on you and stack together these shifts

and you feel like you're hanging on for dear life. The puck's moving around, Bushard gets a point shot. McDavid retreats. It gets it into the net front. Hyman gets an opportunity. Hogan Hopkins is buzzing around all of a sudden his headle comes on the ice he's in that like soft spot in the zone

and they're just able to sort of just like take away your legs and turn it and the panthers might wind up taking penalties because the oilers are so good at that and so I'm like it's going to be possible to stop it entirely but they're not going to just allow them they're not going to like sit back and play into it the way I think some of these other teams have either by design

or by necessity and so what happens up the ice is going to be so interesting in kind of determining what happens going back the other way. And I think the, we're not ready to transition to talk about. No, I still have a few more notes on the Panthers here specifically, in particular what they did to the Rangers. Yeah, the, so let me just note that the rush part of what you brought up. I think the thing when you talk to NHL defenders and not with a recorder in their face,

like when you're just like having a conversation with an NHL defender, one thing especially those that are counted on to like take fourth man's eye. and involve themselves in the cycle will tell you, is the threat represented by the Oilers off the rush, is whether it's ancillary or key to what they do, that threat, I think, takes a lot off the table in terms of challenging players to actually stick to and play and trust their game, including the buildup.

And I think that's partly what we saw Dallas struggle with, but I also think it's partly the trap that, for sure, Montour, Forrestling, you know, Eckblatt especially, given that he can make really savvy offensive plays, but also maybe doesn't have the foot speed to feel like he can recover. I mean, he straight up doesn't have it to recover against McDavid, but nobody does. But even against, you know, like a Holloway or McLeod, like he can get burned, you know, he still has to be doing Ekblad stuff. He still has to be playing Panthers hockey.

I think that's going to be a fascinating, like, psychological challenge for the Panthers here. and I think it's one that some of Edmonton's previous opponents, and whether it was Quinn Hughes, whether it was, you know, all of Dallas's defenders, frankly, but Miro Heiskin and especially, I think maybe didn't, maybe struggled with a bit more than people realize over the course of this playoffs.

For sure. And I think that's partly why the Oilers get the defensive results they do at times. It's because I think you're almost, you're actively, like unintentionally so, I guess, but as their opponent, you're being less aggressive yourself. Maybe you're not taking the risk you would have otherwise. You're not contesting a 50-50 puck at the offensive zone blue line. Maybe you're sagging back and taking a step back to preserve that gap.

And then all of a sudden, they're able to get out of the zone and attack you. And so, I mean, the Panthers cannot play that way, though. No, like, cannot. And I think sometimes to a fault. But, like, I don't think they can afford to, but I don't think they will either because they're just going to go down there with a ship. Because I think they've shown the past year and a half or two years here, they really only can play a certain way, right?

And at times last year when things went wrong and it's impossible to know how much to put into it because every single Panthers player seemingly was like being held together by duct tape and screws and stuff by the end of that series. But like Vegas was able to just feast on them off the rush much the way they did against everyone during last year's Stanley Cup run because of that exactly, right?

It's like as soon as you get it past that one guy and you bump it into the middle, you're going to have open ice to skate into. But the issue is you actually have to get a pass that guy. And the Rangers here were just unable to. Like they had no recourse for it. And that's a conundrum this four check puts you into because they take away the wall.

Right. And so for the lesser defenseman, it's a nightmare because that's your bread and butter play. That's all you really can do. And they just like that will not work against the Panthers. So they're sort of giving you this mirage of like, oh, the middle of the ice is open. Do you want to go in there? And you can't pass it because they're so quick that they're going to jump into that lane, especially with Barkov playing kind of free safety there.

But you actually can't, I think, skate it out against them. And so that's where it's interesting. The Rangers were just so unwilling to do any of this stuff, and that's why the territorial battle went the way it did. Yeah. That dynamic is fascinating. And you're right. It might not even just be that the Panthers have the personnel

or the systems that make them a bad matchup for the Oilers. It might be the stubbornness they've shown, including not reacting or sorry, not overreacting, how they lost in the Stanley Cup final last year and really doubling down on what makes them this team. You know, I think maybe in some ways protects them or insulates them a bit better from like the trap of the oiler,

of the trap offered by sort of the black hole, the gravity that is the oiler's rush attack. Okay, so we cover Barkov. I have to, I'm contractually obligated to bring up Gus Forzling here as well as part of that. And he, I had both Forzley, and Bouchard on my cast before the playoffs began Norris Ballot. Yep.

And I cast that and I was like, man, I'm probably going to get crushed for this, but I'm so confident I'm right that I just know that they have to be in the top five. Yeah. And now it's going to be like, why didn't everyone have those guys as top five defensemen? I feel like, I feel like that's good for me. I feel like that's good for my brand. I mean, listen, we've certainly had conversations about this both on and off the air, but listeners of the show know that I've been saying for a while now,

the true litmus test of whether you know puck or not is not only how, you feel about the Panthers blue line and who's sort of driving the bus there and who's their number one defenseman but also how that's going to be reflected in the Norris floating so yeah you know you know puck I think that's very very clear at this point um in this series not only was at all the defensive stuff uh he led this series in five on five points as well and now in back-to-back series first in round two he outscored like himself not in terms of when he was on the ice he scored more goals than David Pasternak. And then in this series, he scored more goals

than Artembe Panaritan and Mika's Benajad combined. So I wouldn't necessarily, you know, I think pretty much for most regular defensemen, any goals you get is like a nice little thing, but I'm not expecting it because it's so hit or miss. But just the fact that he's doing that now, too, and he's so involved in the offensive zone actions. It's just, I mean, he's been phenomenal.

And every time on now I see someone tweeting about him, I just feel like a proud father. I'm just like, wow. On the one hand, I'm like, oh man, I loved it when I discovered this band before anyone else did. So I'm feeling a little bit of a hipster about it. But also it's nice to see everyone showering with praise. The obviously the Foresling back end goal was just so sick.

And such a, honestly, such a European hockey. I'm not like using that to cast dispersions on it. It was a European hockey like style defenseman goal. You just so rarely see an NHL defender straight down the middle like that off the rush. It was so cool. That's a one of one. It just feels like I can't even think of a similar goal scored by any other NHL defender this year. It was just an incredible feat of skill and speed.

Well, and unfortunately, when we spend this much time praising the combination of Barkov and Forasling, that means that someone needs to be victimized by it. And in this series, it was poor Mika Zabinajad who played about 105.15 minutes. The Rangers did not score in that time. Sergei Bobrovsky outscored him in five-firing. So it was really tough. And it was tough to watch in particular. I was saying like Barklob at times was taking that match up very personally.

Yeah. And it was just the defensive stuff is one thing. But I think the way he's able to protect the puck and like some of the offensive zone sequences where he's just cycling it and almost like big brother versus little brother just keeping, playing keep away from him. That's just part of the package. It's so fun to watch. Yeah.

The one thing I would just add that I thought was really evident as that series went along. was the way that the Rangers and Artemi Panarin and Mika Zanajad in particular started almost overly respecting Alexander Barkov, like wouldn't even attack his heels, like didn't want anything to do with that javelin of a stick, knifing bucks away from them. I almost thought it forced them too high. I heard Ray Ferraro on the broadcast suggests that the Panthers power play was being put

into positions, or sorry, the Rangers power play was being put into positions where they were uncomfortable. and it was just so noticeable. And I fundamentally think it was just them doing too much to avoid skating anywhere close. Like not even within breathing distance of Florida 16. And the Oilers cannot do the same thing. They have to, at the end of the day, even though he's not and even though he makes all these, you know, possession killing plays look wildly routine,

you still have to stick to what you do to generate chances. you can't play around him with that level of respect, I think, and have success. Yeah, and you saw that on the power play in particular, and that's why, what, the Ranger scored one power play goal in that entire series against the Panthers, and it's because they like to run so much of it through Fox at the point, not even as a shooter, but as a distributor. And with Barkov just manning the point there, essentially, he almost single-handedly took that option away from them. Yeah.

And they just, as Ray Farrow said, they were just, like, so discombobulated by it that guys were just doing very uncharacteristic stuff. And that does apply to this series because so much of what the Oilers do runs through and kind of facilitates through having Bushard as that option at the point, even though that's not necessarily like the end goal, just having that as an outlet creates so much that comes off with the rebounds and all the actions on front of the net and stuff. And if you're going to really kind of pressure that, then it's going to become even more incumbent that some of the guys down low make plays. And the Rangers were just like either unwilling or unable to do so. Yeah. And I feel like the Oilers, it's going to be a challenge. but they'll be, I think, much more equipped to at least challenge that.

And so that's, I think, a silver lining for them. The motion in particular will give Bouchard more options. And Bouchard doesn't carry the puck that much. Like, he doesn't hold the puck very long at the top of the Oilers powerplay, which I think should help them avoid some of what Adam Fox and the Rangers could. Okay, I got two more quick notes here. And then we're going to go to break and switch gears and talk about the Euler Star series. One for me is a couple adjustments they made in this series, right,

with their forwards in particular was, I think one, you could see San Ben. who was banged up early on in the postseason had that hand injury and then when he came back he like he like looked like Sam Bennett and so they were like all right well you're just going to go back to your normal role and then he just couldn't handle a puck and players were just dying on a stick and he was messing everything up and then they wound up moving him down moving Lundell back up I think you could see that he got healthier as his series went along like he actually started as they were noting on the broadcast taking some face-offs again which is always a good sign if a guy's like hand or wrist injury is bothering them he scored a bunch of key goals I felt

that in that game six clincher he was their best most impactful player he was at least like visibly in terms of how much he was attacking and creating off of that and so him kachuk and eric uh evan rodriguez were so good as a line that allowed them then to play londell with lusterine and i just love those two guys together regardless of your mileage of like one of those guys individually as you said you're not necessarily the biggest londell fan the two of them together have such a good chemistry because of how much time they spent playing together and then this series went along like they were, there was that one third period where they both tried to shoot through the legs against Justerick and I'm like, man, they're feeling it right now. And in game five, they score the goal

to put them up, right? Game six, they score the goal to essentially put the Rangers away to make a two nothing with Teresenko playing on that line. And they were generating legitimate chances even beyond those goals. And so all of a sudden now, for all the talk about depth and different options and kind of head to heads with all this stuff, if that line in particular is not only going to be like reliable defensively, but actually occasionally in some softer competition, kind of putting the boots to you and getting chances off the rush and kind of flexing offensively the way they did, I do think that is a legitimate weapon and that kind of changes my outlook for this Panthers team in the Stanley Cup final.

Especially because that's where no one has managed to punish Edmonton as much as I think we all kind of think they could, right? Like to this point, Edmonton's depth, I mean, they were outscored. Their bottom six was outscored against the stars. but it was at least manageable. You know, it was at least manageable. And so the fact that Lindell and Coe are coming into this series and sort of playing like a line that could actually threaten to put up margin,

which I think you need, because as good as Forrestling and Barkavar, you're still going to be happy with a draw if you're Florida in that role. You know, Florida's going to want to win Kachuk versus dry-sidal minutes if that's how it plays out. But you're not going to go in expecting that to be a blowout. out. You know, you're, you, the area, the soft underbelly of the Oilers roster is where you want to put a margin. No one's done it against this Edmonton bottom six yet. No. And I think that line, at least the

way they looked at the end of the series, give them a chance to do so. I will note here, one final thought. For all this talk, like, I think you're listening to this and you're like, wow, the Panthers just really dominated the series. And I think they did. Like, the first two games were very even in at MSG as the series went along the final four where it just became increasingly one-sided and the Panthers were just sort of exerting their will upon the Rangers, 360 minutes out of 380 minutes in this series were played with a scoreline within one goal. And so that's the reality of the postseason as well here, right? Like for all this talk, like we can cite all the percentages and all the head-to-heads

and everything and just feel like, all right, the Panthers did everything they wanted. They stuck to their game plan. They played an awesome series. So many of these games were like came down a one shot or one play. And I know you can make the argument that, if you're controlling it to that extent, you're going to be more likely to come out on the winning side of that, right?

Just like the puck's probably going to bounce for you more often than not. But it also in a seven-game series sometimes doesn't. And for as one side as a series looked, it was, every game was essentially a one-goal game. Although I would say it felt a lot more lopsided than Dallas-Edmonton and in fact was. You know, I think that at least there was a world

where the stars could meaningfully hang. I do think that even though all the games were close and the Panthers needed some dramatics to pull it out. I think so often the source of the closeness of the games was unsustainable for New York and readily sustainable

for Florida. And that's sort of why I just felt like they unfurled a relatively large can of whoop-ass on New York in the conference final. All right, Tom. Let's go to break here. That's a good note to end this on. And then when we come

back, we'll jump into Oilers' Stars We're going to talk about that and keep the conversation about the conference finals going. You're listening to the Hockey P.D. Ocast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. All right, we're back here in the Hockey P.D.O.cast, join by Thomas Trans today. We are here in the delightful Palm Springs recording our conference final recap, putting a bow on everything we saw this weekend, looking ahead a little bit to the Stanley Cup final on the first of what will be many previews this week without any games on. Tom, we covered Panthers Rangers off the top in part one. let's get into Oilers Stars here finally

and you are making the note about this series how some of these matchups are kind of Roershack tests right? You watch these games and two of us can be sitting on the couch and we can watch in the same game and yet we come away from it with wildly different feelings and justifications for what happened

depending on whatever priors you had previously this was a really interesting one because the stars entered this series as the favorite it, right? They had home ice. I think everyone was feeling like, all right, after they got through the test from Vegas in round one, Colorado and round two, we just saw the Oilers go seven games and really have to, you know, claw back against the Canucks facing elimination twice and winning those games, the stars are set up here for success. It's going to be a much more open series for them. They're going to be able to attack, especially from a depth perspective where we thought

they were the deepest team in the league. And we didn't really see that for a large stretches of this series, especially kind of in that middle range from whatever, the first period of game. Game 4 through to game 6. And so I'm very curious for your take on why that happened and how why these games played out the way they did because I've certainly got some thoughts. I feel like this might be one of those fun occasions where we kind of disagree on it. I think that makes for good podcasting. So let's get into it.

Well, so I do think that the stars got away from their game. We saw them all year attack off the rush. I mean, there's obviously a defensive identity to the way that the stars play. they get, right, in terms of how many shots they prohibit their opponents from taking how robust they are just as a defensive group. But we did see them play up tempo, attacking hockey, especially attacking off the rush all throughout the playoffs. It was a key part of how they beat both Vegas and Colorado. And it just felt like some of that went away in this series. And yet, as much as, like I was prepared going into game five based on what we'd seen so far to sort of lump Dallas in with the Rangers where it was like at the end of the day as good as they were defensively, they just weren't elite enough at generating quality looks.

And then I felt like they actually found traction. Yeah. As game five went along. Game six. Game five. Oh, game five went along. Yes. Yeah. I think game five went along.

They started to find some traction in the series started to look a little bit more like I'd expected where, where I thought. But I didn't think the Oilers, even if they could overpower the stars at the top of the lineup, would look like a team that had a genuine extra gear above what Dallas could handle. And then for most of the early part of the series, I thought that's what it looked like. Game five, it kind of flipped. And then game six, it entirely flipped, like dramatically flipped. And I sort of come out of it thinking, did the stars find their answers a little too late? Like, DeBore's Game 7 magic, did he just not quite get it to Game 7? He'd kind of found the answers to the test as he went, and then ultimately was betrayed by a massive edge that the Oilers were able to gain on special teams.

And so the way that the stars were able to find their game and start to exert their will as that series went along was like cut short, preempted. Because in part McDavid, but also, you know, the Oilers power plan, certainly the Oilers penalty kill, were able to make enough of a difference that the Oilers didn't have to play, you know, a dicey. Game 7. Well, that's what's made it's, yeah. And we all got Rob from missing out in a game 7 this series, regardless of your rooting interest, just because we could have seen Mr. Game 7, Cody Cici himself against Mr. Game 7 on the bench,

Pete DeBoer, and seeing who would have came out. There was a joke in the Pidiocast Discord that it would just be like the game would just never end because neither of those guys can lose in a game 7. And so they'd just be like, Cody Cici would just be out there, just hammering goals from the point. But then Pete DeBore would be making great adjustments

to get the stars back into it. and it'll just be going on until the end of time. It is interesting seeing the fallout of this series, and I think part of it is sort of informed by what I just said as like the stars were the favorite. It felt like after those first two rounds, this was going to be the next logical step in their path towards, like the coronation we were expecting, right?

The deepest team, they've got it all coming together. They acquired Chris Tannov. He had made such a fundamental impact on their team defensively. They're putting it all together, and they're going to win the cup this year, right? And then it just didn't happen. And so now on this Monday after, I think a lot of people are looking for answers or kind of like justification for what happened.

And so they're putting it on the feet of the stars messing up here and just not playing their game. And I think there is something to that, in particular from an approach perspective, right? Because I think even though they were much more aggressive offensively in the aggregate against the abs, I was noting as that series was going along, I felt like they were so respectful of what McKinnon and McCarr in particular could do if the game starts to slip away from them and like opens up a little bit on unravels and then they can just attack and they didn't want to put themselves in those spots and so what would happen as a result was they started playing I thought more conservatively and kind of taking fewer chances and making plays into the neutral zone to just get it out as opposed to trying to attack themselves and we saw them continuation of

that in this series where I they were just kind of flipping the puck into the neutral zone and hoping for these like 50-50 football plays which they never really do at their best and I'm not sure how much of that was a matter of fatigue because they'd played so many games and leaned on their defenseman in particular right you look at Miro played like over a hundred more minutes in this postseason than Evan Bouchard for example and the stars only played one more game than Edmonton and so I think there's an accumulation of that and maybe those guys were like let's just get the puck out of the zone and lift the fight another day and how much of that was something they were strategically trying to do for whatever reason but whatever happened

in that I give the Oilers credit because they were very uniquely positioned to take advantage of that approach and then punish them, right? Like they were winning a lot of those battles in the neutral zone and along the boards. And then they were just getting back into their zone and stacking together the shifts that we talked about in part one, the Oilers do better than anyone. And so the stars were kind of shooting themselves in the foot here, but also the Oilers are kind of one of the few teams that can kind of make you pay the way they did. And so I actually view this as the Oilers taking advantage of it and me crediting them as opposed to feeling like the stars sort of left them off the hook. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's right. I think that's fundamentally right, especially because

there's this sense that the stars had a poor showing in the conference final that I just don't actually think holds water, right? Like, they outscored the Oilers five on five across these six games. You know, they lost the matchup to McDavid and like that those McDavid with at home Bouchard minutes are so lethal and guess what the stars are another you know very much like the Undertaker meme right like they're the latest team that's been victimized by what the Oilers top end is capable of doing but you know they mostly held dry-siddle and check five on five and then one the bottom six minutes I mean, isn't that mostly what we expected?

It's really that they just didn't win those bottom six minutes by enough of a margin. And then Edmonton's power play went nuclear. And again, I think Edmonton's power play went nuclear at just the same moment that the stars five on five edge began to play in the series. And that obscured the fact that the stars looked like at even strength anyway. They'd actually found their game. And in some ways, even meaningfully taken over the series. we never get to,

we'll never really get to say that without it seeming almost like a hot take running contrary to wider public sentiment because the stars couldn't finish in game six and by the way I actually thought it was more a star's finishing issue than a Stuart Skinner having the game of his life issue

although he played really well on balance in this series and obviously a special team's issue the stars power play letting them down with a lot of credit going to Connor Brown and Adam Henrique and Ryan Nugent Hopkins and company on the Oilers. And then also, you know, of course, what the Oilers PowerPlay One was able to do, which was just preposterous. I mean, they're so good. It was. I will say, though, right?

Like, the stars were in a position where they're up to one in the series. They're up to nothing early on in that game four. And then things really went south for them in a hurry. like the Oilers just played remarkably well and put the boots to them the rest of that game and then they came out and built that 3-0-0 lead off the back of two power play goals, but I think still played very well.

I mean, they held the stars to like five or six shots on goal late into the second period in game five in a home game for Dallas. And then at that point, Dallas started to, as you're noting, kind of play more back to their brand and actually getting some opportunities and made a bit of game of that and then certainly dominated in game six despite the result.

But that was the highest leverage kind of crossroads moment in the series, right of like the stars had been able to hold true to form that way and get the job done we're probably having a different conversation here but the oilers much like they did in the previous round yeah with their back against the wall found like the best version of themselves and and dominated in a way that I do think is important because part of it is scoring on power play certainly in these big moments but like it can be a bit overblown with a depth and everything like that but at least they're not getting cratered and it's not becoming such a liability where you're like, man, they just cannot afford to have McDade or Drysidal off the ice because it's a nightmare

situation. At least they're kind of like holding serve or playing to neutral scripts. And then that's allowing the Oilers to come out with that just devastating combination or rotation of guys. And then that's just sort of further emphasizing all of that. So I don't know, you put it all together. I think it's a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B. But I do think like it was a pretty impressive performance all things considered because it just flew so in the face of how I had mapped out the series prior to game one. Yeah, and it's, it's, I'm actually finding the Oilers a little bit tough to talk about because it seems like there's a lot of defensiveness about the idea that the Oilers are top heavy,

but they're extremely top heavy. Yes. You know, like, it's not criticism to know that the accomplishment of the Oilers' depth is to not give it all back. Yeah. Right? They're limiting the damage, and they're doing that job. A lot of them are playing well individually.

Like I thought Connor Brown, obviously, that game six without the puck, there's a lot of smart plays there that help the Oilers survive. Hang on in that game six. It deserves credit for it. But this team outscores you by such a massive margin when Bouchard and McDavid are on the ice, especially together, right? And by the way, it's really like stand-ins, right? It's like I'm saying McDavid, because in my opinion, he's the primary driver,

but it's just that top five-man unit or that Bouchard pair with dry-sidal. And man, those minutes are dangerous. Everything else is hold the fort territory. Yeah. Everything else. And that's okay. That's okay. Like what the Oilers are showing us, and I think it matters.

And I think it dovetails it nicely too with what we're talking about with Florida and the Rangers falling off that offensive cliff is if no one, if no one can hit what you're throwing with your one C2C, one LD, one RD on the ice, there are. any number of sins elsewhere on the roster, right? A $9.25 million second pair defender who's been outscored by 12 goals, five on five in the playoffs, a $5.5.5 million, black ace, goaltender. I mean, there's so many sins that you can cover, get away with if your best at the top are better than everyone else's, which isn't to denigrate, like, what I think have been

hugely valuable contributions from your, like, Holloway, McLeod, Kane, I thought Perry was really good in the Oilers series. knob blocks adjustments, I think, have been exceptional throughout the playoffs. Like, there's a lot to be impressed with from the Oilers' performance, but fundamentally, it's just that to this point in the postseason, and we've seen it with its top-level focus when the stakes have been highest, what the Oilers are throwing at their top of the lineup, no one's come close to hitting it yet. And I honestly do think that dynamic is going to permeate, even against Gus and Barkov in the final.

Well, that's what's interesting because ultimately the difference between these two teams in this West Final was the special teams, right? Where Edmonton's PK didn't go up a single goal against in 28 minutes, short-handed time, scored the one, obviously, and then scored the four power play goals in games five and six combined that sort of emphatically or decisively, I guess, closed it out for them. and then what you're saying with the top guys where I've got it down like especially with McDavid and Bouchard and in this series they didn't use that much dry saddle there like they're almost there's certainly if they're struggling or like they haven't generated anything

in a while they'll just put dry saddle out there with McDavid and Hyman and kind of just try to spark the offense as a whole it's mostly in this series though off of those successfully killed penalty kills right where they all of a sudden bring those guys out for the next shift after but McDavid and Bouchard in particular what

they did to the Dallas's top guys where that's where this was decided right like they just outclass them you look bushard played 41 five one five minutes against why johnston in this series shots on goal 31 to 11 high danger chances 14 to three goals for nothing for edmonton and that's what it comes down to like that's the difference in this type of series and so for all the talk about depth or what one team did and one team didn't in that regard at the end of the day edmonton's best players just decisively won those matchups and it wasn't like them doing it against, like, back in the day against, like, Radic Faxhauer. It's like, all right, they're just kind of feasting territorially against other teams shut down line.

This was head-to-head power versus power, and the Oilers simply, their power was better. Yeah. So one thing that I really began to think is game six went along, and as the Oilers were frittering away, sorry, the stars were frittering away, some really golden opportunities, obviously including the Rope Hints, post-tenths. hit outside of the post. Yeah. And then...

Now, is that good goaltending or not? It depends who you ask. Yes. If you ask a goalie, it is. If you ask Leon Dreisdittle, eh. The... But, you know, Robertson, I mean,

even when there were 18 seconds left in that game and you've got, you know, the Stars defender skating slowly back and it's like, well, are they going to get another chance? And they execute and get Jason. Robertson a glorious chance he misses. He had three really good ones in the last two minutes. They do, but also, like, in the PDA cast discord, people were like, oh, man, what's, what's Miro doing, right? He was, like, so kind of like, lethargic or casual getting back to that puck.

There were a few times late in the third where he just didn't make a play at the blue line. He either, like, shot it into shin pads or bobble the puck and it ends it in the zone. It's like, he played 31 minutes in that game. And he played 535 or whatever minutes for the postseason. Like, I think that is a realistic expectation for, like, the accumulation and a degradation of efficiency that you see. And so. And Ryan Suter had to be limited as game six went along. And, well, far too late, in my opinion. Right.

But, I mean, you got to a point. And we were watching in real time. And with about four minutes on the clock, there was, you know, a Tanev Lindell shift. And, you know. Yeah, I think I said, I was like, I don't think we can see this again. Yeah. Like, I think it just needs to be Harley-Hiskin. We're right.

And so, but. more than anything, it was, it just felt like between the Stankovin misses and he felt so snake bit, even though I still thought he was creative and winning battles and assertive and impactful. Jason Robertson, right? He has the, he has the hat trick breakthrough in game three and then pretty quiet thereafter. I thought he was getting chances though. Even the Star's power play, which is getting killed, I thought had chances in games. Like that wasn't Vancouver versus Edmonton in game seven where they were completely bottled up.

like they were getting chances. They just kept missing. I don't even think they kept getting robbed. They were just missing their shots. Their shooters didn't have it that day. And this is one of the frustrating things that I'm sure Jim Nill and company are sifting through as they, you know, manage the emotions and disappointment is, I mean, to lose the best on best and have that be so decisive. If you're Dallas, this is one of those where it's like, you really just have to wait. Yeah.

Like it really, these guys are so young and are at such a stage of their careers where, I mean, I hate the old, like you have to do a lot of losing before. I honestly think there's no other solution, but that these guys have to process that disappointment and come back hungrier because they did just about everything they should have, especially in the decisive game that ended their season. They just didn't quite have the finish. They didn't. From the Oilers perspective here, you know, I do want to note because McDavid, you know, he has 10 points in this series and particularly as it went along. like he was just able to get to wherever he wanted on the ice. And I mean, the individual brilliance. I mean, that was one of the most ridiculous goals you're going to see.

And they did it to Mero Aiskin and no less. Watching it in real time was so cool. Because you're so used to seeing goals that seem unbelievable like that. And then you watch the replay and you're like, oh, actually it bounced off someone skater. Like the reason why it beat the goalie so cleanly wasn't the actual shot. It was something kind of unfortunate for the defensive team that happened. And then you rewatch that.

It's like, oh, no. he just inexplicably lifted the puck the way that he did and just beat Jake Auditor. That was as simple as that. It was like, my best is better than your best. He just toe-dragged one of the five best defensive defensemen in the sport to get right into the middle of like a very narrow box. And then in a split second lifted it backhand shelf. I've never seen a goal like that. Honestly, that was unbelievable.

He did like five things that only he could do, but he did it in rapid succession with no break in between. And I think that's also the only thing that he can do than no one else can. So there's that. Hyman, I thought was amazing in this series. Like his strength around the net. And I think that's interesting as well, right? Because we spend so much time talking about how the game has changed, offense first defense.

Like you need to be able to skate. You need to be able to defend the rush. I think that's more important now than being a throwback, kind of hulking defenseman that's clearing the net. But what's happened is there's so few guys now that can actually just handle Zach Hyman one-on-one around the net. you could see that in the series like he was giving chris tann have fits even before the injury but especially after just taking the puck to the net kind of boxing him out winning these battles one on one

he's just so strong and then ryan eugen hopkins i have to shout him out because he is such a cool player like the details in his game the stuff off the puck the back checks the support he provides on a lot of these breakouts i come and low to provide an outlet for someone yeah he almost like they were saying in the broadcast, he, he's like, he really is like your favorite player's favorite player, because I think players appreciate the stuff he does and the details that go into it and how that makes life easier for the stars around him. But you see that here. And everything he did, I thought, was just so giant for this team. And it's part of that because we always talk like, and he's the guy that comes out for that, for that nuclear line, right? You go, all right, McDavid Hyman and they put

dry sidle and then you, then what do you do against that line? The guy you're taking off is Ryan Adrian Hopkins, who in the meantime is doing all these other things that allow everything to connect and flow so smoothly. He also had a play defensive zone sequence where he batted a puck down, didn't quite control it, but got into a 50-50, and then was able to be in position to get the clear. And it was like, that is an icing for 99 of 100 players. And it was just perfectly weighted in a desperation. You know, and it's, he has the accumulation of.

just like small, intelligent plays that, you know, drip by drip, end up filling Edmonton's cup. That is what it is. It's just, it's cool to see a guy who came into the league as this brainiac playmaker put his hockey brain into like winning in a totally different role. And that's what he's done. And he does it in every phase of the game for this Euler's team. Like he's a big part of what they're doing well short-handed. He's a big part of that power play. Just the connective tissue he offers to that PP1, I think is massively underrated, and then obviously what he can do, both supporting the attack and defensively. He rocks. Yeah, he makes the perfect play so often. All right, I wanted to talk about Ryan McLeod and the impact he made on dry siddle's wing.

I wanted to talk about Philip Broberg and some of the adjustments Chris Knobach made. But fortunately, you and I are going to have plenty of opportunity. We'll do like X Factor tiers or something tomorrow, baby. For sure. So we're going to be back here soon. Everyone go check out Tom's show, Canucks Talk, here on the Sports Network as well. And I'm not. I'm not. I'm not going to let you plug stuff because I think you're just going to organically plug all the work you're doing as we go along here because you're going to be on every day here with me while we do this show. I'm really looking forward to. Hopefully people enjoyed this. We'll be back with a massive Stanley Cup final preview and get into all the other stuff that we left on the table.

So looking forward to that. In the meantime, that's all for today. So see you soon. Thank you for listening to the Hockey, Ocast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.