The Hockey PDOcast - It’s Timo Time in New Jersey, and What Are The Penguins Doing?

Episode Date: March 2, 2023

Ryan Novozinsky joins Dimitri to talk about New Jersey’s acquisition of Timo Meier, and how he fits in with the Devils the rest of this season and beyond. Then Adam Gretz hops on to discuss Pittsburgh’s bizarre sequences of moves this week.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey Pediocast with your host, Dmitri Philippopovic. Welcome to the Hockey Pediocast. My name is Dimitri Filippovich. And joining me is my buddy, Ryan Novosinski. Ryan, what's going on, man? What's going on, Dimitri? Like I told you off camera, man, this has been a busy week. It's been a hectic week. And I expect it to maybe get a little bit more hectic. I'm glad that the trade deadline is, man, there's what, 24 hours left or something like that? That's good stuff. Yeah, well, we're going to talk about a trade that happened on Sunday, which I'm looking at the calendar and the calendar is telling me it was four days ago. But my brain feels like it was four years ago at this point with the number of trades that have happened in the intervening days.

So it feels weird to be like talking about it right now just because so much has happened since it's a bit fresher, I guess. But listen, I've talked about Timel Meyer individually. I've talked about the New Jersey Devils as a team. I've talked about the fit between the two of them. countless times on this podcast throughout the year. And now that it finally happened after all of my manifesting and putting it into the universe paid off, I knew I had to have you on

to give the listeners a proper breakdown of the trade now that it's official. So let's get into it. Let's have some fun. I think this is a good starting point for us here. I want to get into, before we talk about the fit and the player and how he's going to look on the devils,

I want to talk to you a little bit about sort of the behind the scenes of what you're reporting came across in terms of like the timeline and development of this deal because I really can't remember a trade that had a larger window between it being announced as like, Timelmeyer is going to the Devils officially on Twitter and then waiting like four or five hours or however long it took for us to figure out what was actually going back to San Jose. And it was quite a wild time. It was a wild time to be alive, especially on Twitter.

You're just like following it and you're like, all right, this player has been ruled out. They're not going to San Jose and you're just kind of crossing names off your list. I want to talk, tell me about kind of how that process came together and sort of the reporting behind like finally figuring out what the actual return was. Yeah. So it was, I've been through a lot of different kinds of media fields. Like I've covered news. I've covered, you know, everything from news to lifestyle to sports, obviously now. I have never seen a crazier day than what happened that day. Just because you're right, it was the waiting process. It was, and Fitzgerald, revealed, Tom Fitzgerald revealed, you know, the behind the scenes. What happened there was, was basically, you know, they were trying to, you know, figure out there was one player that was injured. They never named who that was. I don't think they ever well. So they were trying to, you know, figure that out, said it wasn't, free been said it wasn't a big part of the deal, but, you know,

still a note nonetheless, seeing that a player was injured that, you know, potentially could have been gone back to the sharks, who that was, we don't know, like I said. And then it was just, you know, balancing everything out. I mean, they add Scott Harrington to this deal and they put him on waivers the next day and that he's already an Anaheim duck. So, you know, it was a, like you said, a long drawn-out process. I honestly, whenever Freedman said, you know, probably about 6 p.m., 7 p.m., that there was a hiccup in the deal or whatever he said, I was, I was nervous. I was like, man, like, what's going to go down here? But we always knew that the devil's had this, this deep prospect pool, this, you know, I would even say deep asset pool because they had the

picks too. They had a lot of picks over the next couple years. So to slap some conditions on that and then, you know, for this to end up being the return, I mean, I think it was, every devil's fan was was very satisfied with it. There's some, there's some, you know, people that hold out hope for Zetterlin and Shakir Mukabedulin that were, you know, they were a little bit mad that, that, you know, they were the ones that kind of ended up getting there. But I'm, my thought process was, dude, they didn't give up Mercer. They didn't give up Alexander Holtz to get Timelmeyer with that. And, you know, just knowing the built-in chemistry that he has with a bunch of teammates there now

in Heesh and Sieganthaler and, you know, maybe even Akir-Schmead, the Swiss connection there, I think it's, and the Capspace situation, I think that, you know, it's a pretty good optimistic sign that Meyer would be convinced to resign there. And, you know, it just makes sense because they could do it with Jester Bratt. They can ink him long term and they can, you know, ink Meyer long term as well. It just fits cap space wise. And, you know, just fit wise. I mean, I know you've been talking about it and I've been talking about it for so long.

Timo Myers, it seems like for the past two months he's already been a devil because of how much it's been talked about. I mean, the devil's social media page, I've never seen this from a team, but they already had a pre-built-in meme when they posted it that night where it was like, announced Meyer, announced Meyer. And then the devil's stage, like it was Adam Sandler. It was like, all right. So they knew it. Everybody knew it was the worst kept secret of the world, this interest. And Fitzgerald apparently, importantly, has been talking about Meyer for over a year now, you know, acquiring him. So the fit just makes sense.

And, you know, to see this happen. I mean, what a relief, right? Because you're thinking, you're thinking that this guy's going to be a devil. And then, you know, you hear the smoke about some of the other teams. It's pretty incredible. And the fit's incredible. Well, the smokeable. of those teams is interesting because despite everyone's efforts, I think, and, you know,

there are good efforts to the drum up intrigue and drama about until the very last moment, really, even after, you know, the day of the trade, um, Vegas goes out and acquires Ivan Barbachev and a lot of people are thinking, okay, well, that's a sign that they're out of the sweepstakes here. And then we get reports, oh, well, this doesn't necessarily preclude the Vegas from still sticking around and potentially making a strong offer for Meyer that could, they could convince the sharks otherwise. And, you know, we're hearing about all these other legitimate suitors and the hurricanes and the blues jumping into it with the first they acquired and all these teams that were in the mix.

But it always felt like it was going to be the devils, right? And I think that's the takeaway here. Like it just felt like it was, it made too much sense not to happen. Literally every single imaginable box that you'd want to check with the trade of this magnitude was hit for the devils. Like he meshes perfectly with the way they want to play. He's the exact type of player they're looking for. And they had the motivation to acquire him because he helps them not only the rest of

this season, but fits into their longer term plans. and as you mentioned, they had the assets to kind of push over the top, regardless of what the sharks wanted, they could match it. And it seems like the sharks kind of preferred a quantity approach here in terms of the number of assets they got as opposed to trying to kind of grind down to just one premium crown jewel. I guess, you know, you sort of answered my next question, which was going to be what took so long in terms of like figuring out all the logistics and making all the pieces fit. But I guess from the devil's perspective, I'm curious for your take on A, whether, the sharks specifically picked Zetterland over someone like Holtz because it felt like for all of the fake trades or

mock trades that were coming together. Holtz was the sort of the young roster player that was going to go in this and B, whether there were ever like serious talks about including a guy like Dawson Mercer and a trade of this magnitude. Yeah, there's a couple of things there. Number one,

just some whispers going around. I don't know that Holtz is viewed league wise as valuable as a lot of people may think. I think he's a great prospect. I think he can be something special, especially with that shot. But I mean, you know, that's sort of the sense that I've gotten, just some of the rumbles that, you know, he has had some struggles this season. Sure, scheme wise, maybe they're not rolling him out as, you know, I guess schematically how he should be. He should be sort of a top

six guy and is that scoring threat. But it just hasn't happened this year. And, you know, his his skating is off, his pace was off. So they sent him back down to the minors and probably for good reason he wasn't getting the game reps. They have a pretty prominent, I'm blanking under name, but they have a pretty prominent skating coach coming in. And they were working with Holtz just one-on-one because that's how much they wanted, you know, the vision to work. But then they sent him back down to Utica, New Jersey's AHL team in order to, you know, sort of get those game reps. And, you know, but from San Jose's perspective, I wouldn't even say it was Zetterlin necessarily.

I would say Shakir Mukumadoulin is the guy you look at as sort of that top guy. And that's Fitzgerald even brands him as that as being that sort of, you know, top guy in this trade. Because, I mean, he's a former first round pick, a couple years removed. And he's a guy that, you know, he was going to come over from the KHL at the end of this season. He was, you know, he even said, I got him on the assistant GM on the record to say, and he was going to come play in the H.L playoffs. And I think even Fitzgerald said he could have, you know, got some NHL reps this year, too. So he's a really talented young player there. So they get, you know, a good guy in that. Then I think Nikito Ojoitou, too, is a guy who has a lot of aggression. He's got a lot of, he's a great fighter.

He's a great physical presence, too. He's a guy that got some reps this season as well. And then, of course, Zetterland, too. I mean, that's a guy who's bulky for sure. There's an ongoing joke among the fan base where they talk about, you know, what's, what's that Erland's bench press? Because he is just a, he's a very chiseled dude. But, yeah, I mean, San Jose got some good prospects coming back. And, you know, they should be happy with that. And then, you know, with the picks coming back as well.

And like you said, it's quantity. But I think there is definitely some quality there as well. You know, I think people can look at this and see a name like Mukumadulin and just think, you know, oh, like, I haven't seen Hibs, his name because people don't really watch the KHL. But knowing Mukumadulin, like, that's a really good prospect going back there in return. So I think they could be happy about that. I guess the reason why I frame it that way is maybe it just speaks to the embarrassment of the of riches that the devils had organizationally at that position, right? Because at my place

of where at keep your ringside, we put out these like organizational power rankings in terms of prospects and everything each at the start of each season. And my colleagues had, in the devil system, Muk Madoulin as the fifth best devil's prospect, which is great because they were a top 10 pipeline. The thing is, is though they had three other defensemen ahead of him on those rankings.

And I think the important piece of business here for the devils is that none of those guys were involved in these talks. And then they've got, you know, 7th and 14th in terms of Zetterlin and Nikita to round out that list. But, yeah, I mean, like, listen, they get the first, they get a second, which will become a first.

They get the two prospects, defensive prospects to get Fabian Zetterland. It's certainly interesting. I just thought all chatter of Mercer being included in this was silly. And maybe that's just me being on the incredibly high end of all Dawson Mercer evaluations. And I feel like the past maybe seven games or so have vindicated me a little bit, not to take a premature victory lap on that.

But you just watch that guy play. And man, what a dog, right? Like it's what a freaking player. I mean, the last seven games, clearly, you know, nine goals, for his crisis or whatever he has. like that's not necessarily representative. I'm not expecting him to keep doing that moving forward. But it's cool to see all of the little details in his game that I've seen that have been happening throughout the year

finally start to result in more kind of counting staff production that's getting him the credit and attention that I think he deserves. And what perfect timing. I think that's sort of been the ongoing joke, whether it's, you know, us reporters asking him about it or anything like that. What perfect timing for Dawson Mercer to have his career, uh, propelling, if you will. You're right, nine goals, seven games. He just broke the devil's record for consecutive games with a goal. He did that last night. It's incredible to see him and to see that top line gel, too. It's he sure Thomas Tatar and now, and now Dawson Mercer, they've really been stepping it up. And quite frankly, Mercer at the beginning of the season, I mean, he had a bit of a

slow start. And there was a good semblance of games. I don't know exact number. but there was a good semblance of the games where he was without a goal and it was without a point, I think even. And it was concerning. But it's one of those things that I would say if you ask Devils fans in December, I think you would see a lot more people be fine with giving up Mercer if it meant getting you Meyer in a, you know, plus a deal in a trade. But now, I mean, you don't, God, no, especially with the week that he's out. I mean, cut his production in half this week. and I think people would still be iffy on it. I mean, it's just, it's an incredible run.

And, you know, yeah, I'm sure San Jose definitely asked for him. But that's just one of those conversations where it's like, yeah, like, okay, every, just like every team is interested in Colorado McDavid. And that's not me compared to us and versus. No, of course. Yeah. But you have definitely negotiations, right? Yeah.

I mean, listen, like, obviously the production and when the goals start coming, it's going to change people's perception of it. But the way I view it, him is like I think he he is a type of game where it scales up depending on his quality of of teammates or the way he's used. I know that kind of sounds obvious. It's like yeah, if you play with better players, you're going to produce more. But just because of the type of player he is, I feel like it really lends itself well to kind of like creating this mutually beneficial relationship between him and skilled players where he's a highly talented guy in his own right. But he's sort of the way he approaches the game is

like he has like the motor and the work ethic of a far less talented grinder. And so you put him next to other skilled players and all of a sudden some of these opportunities that he creates with with that work ethic, all of a sudden start, you know, becoming high dangerous scoring chances, which would become goals. And you watch the goal he scored last night against the Colorado Avalanche and just go back and watch that play because he kind of goes in front of the net, right? He's, he's sort of battling for a position with Sam Girard. And it's funny seeing two, two sort of short kings going at it like that. And what he gives like Sam Gerard this little subtle cross check to the body that's like

undetectable. So no ref is ever going to call that in the grand scheme of things. But it pushes Gerard back just a little bit, creates this like sliver of space for him to work with. And he can put a stick down and all of a sudden tap in a pass there. And it's like little, little stuff like that is why I always say the Dawson Mercer has that dog in them because you just see these little sort of like just aggressive plays that lead to good things and he does that time and time again, whether it's with his speed or with his

physicality, especially for a player at that size. And so it's really cool to see that finally start translating to actual success and people appreciating it. So I wanted to give him a shout out. But we've spent enough time talking about Mercer and some of the other moves. Let's actually finally talk about Timel Meyer, which is our objective here. So I want to talk to you about the fit here because on paper for me, it seems like such a slam dunk. What do you see in here in terms of how they're going to use Meyer, what their plans are for him, and how it's all going to fit in the grand scheme of things with the, with the team already scoring as many goals

they have been recently, even without them. Yeah, so as I'm watching the game last night, New Jersey jumps up 5-1. And, you know, things were going great then. And then, of course, Colorado blasting back into the game to finish 7-5, Devil's Win. But I'm watching it last night. And the one thing that kept being repeated on Twitter,

I even tweeted it, was, man, this team doesn't even have Tim O'Meer yet. I mean, and that's the rate at which they've been shooting lately, the rate which they've been scoring lately has been incredible because, you know, you didn't see that in January. They were kind of scraping out wins, but now the finishing is finally coming. And, you know, a lot of times, even during that 13-game winning street, there was a lot of high-danger chances that they were not finishing on and executing on. Goodness, Eric Halle is probably one of the unluckiest players in a league. I think he

missed another empty netter last night, too. So there was a lot of players like that. But then everyone was talking about Meyer and the way that he's going to fit into this team and and he's that finisher that propels them to seriously Stanley Cup level contention-wise. Now, of course, the Bruins are on a historic pace right now, but I mean, you've got to put them in there, especially, you know, given the playoff hockey aspect of it. And, you know, just the fact that they are adding Meyer now is incredible. The way that the devil's offensive attack works, it just messaged so well into it. You look at, I mean, Meyer, the way he was rolling with.

with Eric Carlson this year, you get Dougie Hamilton's not a bad one B option there, right? Because he's scoring at a high rate this year. He's a career high, tied to career high in goals last night. Now it's not going to be as prolific as it was, I'm sure with Carlson, the way he's having to do it this year. But Tuggy Hamilton, again, is still a great one B option, especially the way the devils incorporate their defensemen in their offensive attack. I think, too, in terms of line fit-wise, you've got to put him with Jack and Jasper Brad. Well, before we move on to the forwards, I just wanted to build off the Duggy point you made there because I think it's a really astute one. One of New Jersey's existing weaknesses this season offensive way, if you look at Corey Schneider's tracking of them, is they're pretty much like one of the best teams in every single offensive category, except for how many chances they generate off of rebounds and deflections, right? Kind of like those like greasy little plays around the net.

and the only player who creates more rebounds than Team O'Mire this season is Matthew Kachuk. And I don't have a stat for the deflections, but just watching him play, he had this beautiful connection with Carlson throughout the year where he would kind of just float around and eventually get into the slot with a stick on the ice. And Carlson would hit him for these kind of like one touch little like deflections or redirections towards the net. And they had that great chemistry. And you're right.

I think that eventually he can sort of develop that with Dougie Hamilton. And Dougie Hamilton likes to maybe focus on shooting the puck towards the net a little more than looking for that pass. But still, he's got the vision and the skill to execute that. So I'm really curious to see how that chemistry flourishes. But please continue on the forward front as well. Yeah, no. And in terms of the forwards, people are talking about, of course, like you look at the Swiss national team and, you know, the way that they rolled Meyer and Nico Heeshire. Of course, that's great built in chemistry.

and that, you know, probably could get Meyer jelling in the scheme a little bit faster. But at the same time, how are you going to have Jack Hughes on the roster, a guy who gets the puck to those dangerous areas? I mean, Jack Hughes is a scoring threat this year and he's really turned that on. And, you know, the league really should watch out now that Jack Hughes has turned on his scoring threat. I saw a tweet about that many years ago. I think it was from Dom. Yeah, once he figures out how to shoot, it's over for everyone. Exactly. But now Jack has, you had Tim O'Meyer onto that line.

Jack's a guy that can get the puck to those dangerous areas to the slot. You had Timo, a guy who thrives off those, you know, kind of gritty chances. Nico called him a big boy who likes to get to those dangerous areas the other day. How is that not going to be one of the best lines, one of the most prolific lines in the NHL? I mean, and especially just for Brat too, the way he's rolling this year. and, you know, he can dish the fuck as well. I'd like to see Jester, you know, finish a little bit better, especially on some of those high danger chances.

But if he could ditch it to Timo Meyer, that line, even if, I mean, even if they have an off night, somebody's going to step up. Somebody's going to step up on that line. And it could be any three of them. And I think it's going to be Meyer quite a bit. I think this is the scoring threat that Jack has been waiting to play with. I mean, you can put him with a guy like Igor Sharon Govich, who had a very good year last year.

And, you know, has shown some promise at times this year. But now you're putting him with a genuine scoring threat, a guy who gets to those dangerous areas, a guy that has that physicality and a guy that, you know, he can create some space and really just net the puck. Yeah, yeah. Well, the combinations here in the top six are really interesting. I think that's kind of like one of the most fascinating components of this

because it's sort of like pick your poison in a sense that I think any of it will work well. I think it's about optimizing and they have 20 or so games here to figure it up before the playoffs. But I think the connection with like Nico Hissier and the countrymate aspect of it and the fact that they've played together and all that certainly makes sense. I think the idea of putting those two guys with someone like Dawson Mercer and just like unleashing them as this incredibly annoying line that just for checks the living daylights out of the other team and squeezes out additional opportunities on that end is highly appealing to me. But you're right. I think the option of just going completely nuclear with Timo, Jack, and Jesper Brat on one line is so tantalizing. Like, you just look, when Hughes and Brad have played together this season, high danger chances are 106 to 56 for the devils at 515.

And they've done that with Sharon Govich and with Halla as sort of the third member of that line. And with all due respect to those guys, especially from a finishing perspective, Timo Meyer is just such an incredible upgrade. and the idea of him being on the receiving end of some of these dazzling passing plays that Brad and Hughes cook up is appealing. But also I think he can help them quite a bit because he's just going to create extra space for them. He commands so much attention both in terms of like actual like making sure where he is on the ice, but also quite literally like physically just going towards the net and dragging defenders with him. And all of a sudden the idea of giving those two guys as talented as they are in open space, even more room to work with is pretty fun to think about.

He also made the point there where Jack Hughes is one of the best players in the league at passing the puck into the slot. And Timel Myers is one of the best players in the league at taking shots from the slot. So, you know, that seems like a kind of natural fit there too. But yeah, I really don't think they can go wrong. I kind of like both those. I imagine they'll start him kind of as like the shiny new toy with Hughes and Brat when he's ready to go and healthy enough to play. Just because his year Mercer and Tatar have produced so incredibly well over the past couple weeks. but I think eventually they're going to experiment with both of those, at least towards the playoffs.

And look, there's no coach in the league that likes experimenting with their lines like Lindy Ruff. I always tell people like, people are like, oh, what are the lines going to be today? And I'm like, I have no idea. Lindy can change them, you know, after opening puck drop within five minutes in the first period, they can be changed. And that's, Lindy like to shake it up. And I think that's what you're probably going to see. I think, you know, as the playoff race heats up, he wants to experiment with everything.

You know, and that's not to say that he's not going to build one consistent line. Maybe it is Jack and Meyer and Jesper Bratt. But I think, you know, you're going to definitely see maybe a Mercer and Heeshire and Meyer line as well at some point. But I think to start off, Lindy even noted the other day, he said he'll probably start off with him on Jack's line because, I mean, just what value that could add. And, you know, I think, you know, too, there's an aspect of this, too, that the power play, too, the power play one, rather, it's going to be so lethal. I mean, you got Meyer on that unit, you got Jack on that unit, Heathrow, Brad and Dougie, how is that not one of the best power plays in the entire league? And, you know, and Tomas Tatar, too. And one of the guys gets bumped.

I think it will be plot to that second unit. But it just makes everything flourish this team. It does. This is what they've been begging for. And another thing that, you know, Devils fans and myself included have been begging for too for this team is a little bit more physicality. They rely on guys like Nathan Bastion. They rely on guys like Miles Wood to sort of bring that physical edge.

But now you got Meyer, a guy that, you know, gives you that scoring, that scoring touch, that finishing touch. but he also brings that physicality with his build. And obviously we talked about the dangerous areas. That's something that's going to be just so invaluable for this team. And I think that that's one of those things that come playoff time. And Meyer has playoff experience. It's just something that it all just makes sense.

I mean, going down from you talk about the fit at the beginning, Claude Lemieux's agent, you know, who has Fitzgerald's brother works for the, works for the Sharks his front office. This is, there's so many connections there. this is why this all makes sense. Well, I think that offensive versatility of Myers in terms of being able to play any type of game you want to play is one of the most desirable qualities of his game,

and I think particularly for this devil's team because they're already one of the best rush teams in league. And Myers certainly, I believe he's fourth in the league and chances created off the rush this season. So he has the pace to be kind of like a freight train and open space and keep up with those guys. And I think that anyone you wanted to add to this group needed to fit that characteristic,

But what they've prided themselves on this year in terms of like going from being a fun young team to legitimately good with, you know, playoff aspirations and competing for a Stanley Cup is the ability to sustain offensive zone possessions to have a diverse attack to not just be kind of a one and done team. And he's so good at grinding out on the cycle and getting multiple opportunities in front of the net. And so I think he's going to add there as well. And of course, as you mentioned, the physicality, I think importantly, like he's shown that he can use that big frame of his to fight. through contact and still get to the net. And that's a quality that you need in the postseason. So checks all those boxes. I guess one final sort of point that I wanted to hit here with you on this discussion is

in these trade talks, we kept hearing those kind of recurring theme about how above all else, the devils are sort of prioritizing, you know, quote unquote, sustainability, right? Like, they understand that they have a really successful team this year and they want to go as far as they can. But given the ages of all these guys involved, and everything. They view this as kind of like a long-term thing, right? This is a multiple-year

trajectory. And so Meyer, of course, you know, comes, he's under contract the rest of the season. Next year, he's got this $10 million qualifying offer. There's no talk of extensions yet as far as I'm, as far as I know. And I think that the idea, the specter of him leveraging that and to go into unrestricted free agency the following season scared off a lot of potential teams that otherwise would have been interested in him. Where are we at in terms of the devil's retaining him long term and figuring that out and what that's going to look like because I think that's kind of a key piece of this puzzle and that's why I think they have confidence that they can accomplish that and that's why they were comfortable paying the price that they did and going all in

to get him whereas some other teams might not have been you know it did shock me when I when the reports first came out that uh that this this trade did not have an extension with it I thought that was going to be the one thing for weeks maybe even months I thought that was the one thing that the devils were going to try to secure that Tom Fitzgerald was going to try to secure with that contract extension along with the trade doesn't do it. And I just, I don't think that it's that much of a concern. I think, you know, when you look at the devil's cap space, I mean, they could spend 18 million, you know, with Brat and Meyer and still have 18 more million to round out their bottom six. So, you know, they got they got a lot of cap space to, to, to,

work with this summer because they have, you know, a lot of guys coming off the books. And Fitzgerald told me the other day that he thinks that he, the vibe that he gets right now is there's a lot of guys. There's a lot of UFA guys right now. And, you know, speculating wise, I would say this is probably guys like Tomas Tatar, maybe this is Ryan Graves, whoever it may be. That's just speculation. There's a lot of guys that are going to, quote, unquote, repriced themselves this summer. And I think that's a testament to sort of what he's built here. you know, because you see guys like, like Jonas Seganthaler who, you know, at the beginning the season, he was in talks for the top defensemen in the whole league. Like that was, you know,

he was definitely in the conversation there. He's just not obviously as big of a scoring threat. But he's a guy that he took a pay cut this summer. And he locked up a long-term extension. And because he said he sees the vision of what this team is building. And, you know, I know that Fitzgerald, too, he keeps those, the Swiss guys involved in the long-term. lot of these talks. He kept them involved in a lot of the talks with Meyer and what that would add to the team. I'm sure that there's an aspect there where it's like these players, they see that vision. And I think that, you know, not to, not to blow too much smoke up the devil's, but I'm just saying, like, the way that they've built this team around and the way that Fitzgerald is able to,

I mean, look at some of the trades he's made for Vanichek, for Seganthaler, guys like that. I mean, even Taylor Hall trade net, yeah, Marino, the Taylor Hall trade nets, although that, I mean, I I believe was Ray Sheryl, but to get Dawson Mercer back, it's incredible to see what these devils have done in the past couple of years. And I think that that sort of should give fans a little bit of confidence. Well, that's the thing. I mean, Myers, what, 27? So I think he fits the timeline in terms of being competitive over the next couple of years. But they can also, regardless of the price, I don't think it's necessarily a big sticking point or kind of scaring them off in terms of what that figure could look at because, as you mentioned, they have plenty of flexibility to work with

moving forward. And part of that is that's the luxury you get when you're paying Jack Hughes and Eco Hishir combined 15.25 million moving forward, right? When you have your top two centers locked up at that sort of a cap friendly to use a pun deal, all of a sudden, everything else kind of falls into place. And I think it makes sense to take a longer term view because you kind of look ahead to what the playoff path looks like this year. And it's like, all right, Rangers in round one, hurricanes in round two, whoever wins the Atlantic in round three. Like that's going to be an absolute bloodbath. And we've already seen at this deadline, how pretty much. all those teams and push their chips into the middle of the table to try to improve their Stanley

Cup odds this season. So I'm all for like being aggressive in trying to increase your odds this season. But I think taking a longer term view of this and trying to kind of have your cake and eat it too makes a lot of sense. And Meyer fits that because I think they were really interested in like Kevin Fiala this past summer. They were really interested in Matthew Kachuk, of course. And either guy wanted to sign a long term deal in New Jersey, right? They kind of had, we're in the similar position where they had a qualifying offer. They were restricted free agents. But wasn't a long-term fit. And I think that's why it didn't wind up ultimately working out with you, those guys.

So I think the fact that they've made this move finally for Meyer indicates that they're not only further along in their path as an organization than they were this past summer, but also that they have more confidence that it actually is a long-term fit moving forward. So I'm curious to see how all that shakes out. All right, Ryan, this was a blast, man. I'm glad we finally got to do this. Hopefully listeners enjoyed it. I'm sure Devils fans will have enjoyed this.

it's been a long time coming in terms of this trade finally materializing and we still haven't seen Meyer play for the Devils of course because he's been out a little bit with injury but looking forward to seeing that as well. Let the listeners know where they can check you on and kind of what you've been working on recently. Yeah. Thank you so much first and foremost for having me on this. This was a blast and like I said, it was sort of a long time coming with Meyer coming to the Devils.

Like I said, I thought it was, he was on the Devils from the past couple months the way you would have, you know, a casual fan might have thought that. Now, yeah, you can find me. I work for NJ.com. We cover the Devils. We started covering the Devils again this year. So it's been a blast so far, obviously. It's such a roller coaster season, but, you know, the roller coaster is mostly going up.

But, yeah, you can find me on Twitter at Ryan Novo 62. That's R-Y-A-N-N-O-V-O-6-2. And, yeah, just working on, you know, some Devil's feature stories. And, of course, getting some Teva Meyer content out there. It's been a fun ride, and I think it's going to be a fun ride the rest of the way as well. All right, man. We'll keep it up. Looking forward to checking back in with you soon.

We're going to take our break here on today's PDOCast. Then we're going to come back with another conversation on a different topic just because it's such a crazy time leading up to the trade deadline. I wanted to cover as much ground as we can here. So, Ryan, all the best to you. Listeners, stick around. Thank you for listening to the Hockey PEDEOcast streaming on the SportsNair Radio Network. Your number one spot for Flames coverage can be found on Flames Talk with me, Pat Steinberg. Exclusive interviews, trusted insiders, and the latest news.

Listen live weekday afternoons and four or stream the Flames Talk podcast on demand. How are you doing today? I'm doing good. I mean, I'm sure I'm doing a lot better than most penguins. fans out there. We're going to have an interesting chat here because I just did in part one of the show. I just did a glowing review of the New Jersey Devils as an organization, the way they operate, their ability to bring in Timom Meyer and the price they paid for them and how

sort of rosy the outlook is for them, not only for the rest of this season, but moving forward. And now we're dramatically switching gears in talking about this year's Penguins team and all the moves they've made. And it's quite a time. I know you're familiar with all this, but I think for our listeners, I wanted to, I mapped out the sequence of events over the past week or so, just so we're all on the same page. And then we can kind of break it down step by step from there if you're cool with that. Yeah, absolutely.

So genuinely, one of the most low-key mystifying sequences, I can recall. So to recap, first they get bailed out by the St. Louis Blues taking Kasperi Kappen and off their hands when they placed them on waivers. They owed them $3.2 million next year, which is a cost. contract they gave him this past summer. Then they waive Brock McGinn, who had no takers because he's owed $2.75 million over each of the next two seasons. And in a great sort of feat of Gallo's humor, McGinn had this 26 game streak without a single point where he played 340 minutes in that time, zero points. They put him on waivers because they have 24 hours waiting for him to see if he's going to clear, get picked up. He plays for the team. They risk him getting hurt and forcing

them to withdraw the claim, he gets a point, and then he gets set down after. So there's that. They also gave him that contract this past summer, I should say. And then they also, yesterday trade Teddy Bluger to the Vegas Golden Knights for a third, clearing another $2.2 million. So in total, they clear about $6.5 million in future cap commitments on those three, or I guess for the rest of the season because Blugher was an impending UFA. And with all of those kind of balls up in the air and them clearing cap space, it kind of coincides with these rumors, mostly seeming to, like coming out of Vancouver,

that they're talking to the Canucks, either J.T. Miller or Brock Besser, they're going to take one of them off their hands. That seems like the approach. That's why they're clearing all this money. And it feels like from Penguins fans, there's this kind of collective gasp or sort of preparation for this sort of worst case scenario

where they're like, oh my God, this is going to be a disaster no matter what we do. And then instead, last night on Wednesday evening, instead of that somehow in my opinion they reach an even worse alternative in taking michael grandland and the five million he's owed over the next two seasons for a second rounder to the national predators and so does that sum up about kind of the sequence of events over the past week or so in terms of all the financials and all the personnel moves they made yeah in in what's there's an added layer into that we're along with the the the bank

Hoover rumors. There was also a lot of talk in Pittsburgh that they were potentially in on Jacob Chitrin from Arizona. And the talk was that Mike Sullivan really wanted him. And Ron Hextall was kind of hesitant to pay the price that Arizona was asking for. I mean, there was some talk that it was like two second round picks, you know, a bunch of stuff. And then he ends up like hours before the Grandin trade, he ends up going to Ottawa for one first round pick and two second round picks and it's just like what's going on and then I almost think they would have been better off doing one of the Vancouver trades because as bad as those contracts are at least like you can make an argument that Miller or Besser

might actually solve some of their problems the Grand Lynch trade is so impressively bad because he solves none of their problems. It's just an unbelievable sequence of events. It is. I mean, I should also forgot to mention there that at some point in that sequence, they did have, they legally had to get rid of money to make space for activating Yan Ruudah off injured reserve,

who has been their fifth or sixth most frequently used defensemen this season. And they gave him a three-year, 2.75 million average annual salary contract this past summer as well. So there's also that added wrinkle to this. the Granlin thing is so it's honestly baffling to me because I'd be hard-pressed, I think, Adam, to come up with a player that

sort of embodies what the penguins need less than him. You know what I mean? Yeah. He's 31. He's in the first percentile of defensive impact at even strength. He's got absolutely zero shot-making ability

and at this point of his career, quite frankly, has no willingness or appetite to even try shooting. Out of 412 forwards this season who have played 3005.15 minutes, he's 286 in points per 60. And for Penn's fans, the guys around him, directly above him is Derek Brousard, former Penn's legend,

and directly behind them are Oscar Sunquist and Sam Lafferty, two other Penguins legends. It's, I think there's a path for, success or kind of revitalization for Grandland here because he is still only technically 31 years old. I think if you watch him, you know, he still got those playmaking chops in terms of passing ability. Like he can set the puck up on a platter for shooters. And it's not like an entirely useless skill by any means. I just think that like for this Penguins team in particular and with what they already have in place, for him to reach that sort of success, they're almost certainly

going to have to play him on the second line with Malk and Zucker, right? And that seems to be kind of totally besides the point of what they need, which is someone who can sort of create for others and drive play, especially on the third line, but just generally in the bottom six. And so to be paying a premium to add to something that you don't necessarily even need more of is kind of the thing I keep coming back to of like trying to find the logic in this particular edition. Well, the thing that I keep going back to is all year we've been hearing about how bad the penguin salary.

cap situation is and how they don't have the flexibility to really make a move. And over the past week, through a stroke of good luck in St. Louis taking cap in his deal, through the waiver moves, through trading Teddy Bluter, they actually gave themselves enough salary cap space where they could have made a really significant addition, like somebody that could have, or even two additions that could have really addressed some of their needs. And I can't remember the last time I saw a trade that was so universally hated by everybody. Like whether you're a stats person, whether you're an eye test person, nobody understands this. And if you look at what the penguin's biggest needs are, their bottom six has been just a black hole in terms of offense this year.

where they're not getting anything from those guys. They don't defend particularly well, whether it be from their forwards on the bottom six or the defense as a whole. And they brought in a guy that doesn't score. A lot of his offense in Nashville was the result of some of the guys he was playing with on his line, where if he plays on the third line in Pittsburgh,

he's going to be playing with Jeff Carter and people that just were not the answer. And if you put him in the top, top six, you run the risk of disrupting the two lines that have actually carried them to where they are this year. And he's not a particularly good defensive player. He's not good on the forecheck. He doesn't skate as well as he used to. He just, if you were to create a checklist of all the things the penguins don't need, he checks all of those boxes and checks almost none of the boxes of what they do need. And on top of that, he's another guy that's on the wrong side of 30.

that signed long term for like $5 million a year. And with Brian Dumlin coming off the books after this season, with Jason Zucker coming off the books after this season, with Kaepin's contract now gone, they were going to be in a position where they actually were going to have some salary cap space going into this off season, and then they just lit it on fire.

And that's one of the recurring themes here of the Ron Hextall era where it's just been one bad contract after another. Like Jeff Carter before, like they didn't need to sign him to a long-term contract. I don't know if that was just him doing his buddy a favor, just trying to take care of him. And then they lose Brandon Tanev in the expansion draft, and they immediately replace him with Brock McGinn on a long-term deal. It cost them guys like Jared McCann.

It's cost their flexibility to, to bring in people that can actually make an impact where they need it. And I go back to those 2016-2017 Stanley Cup teams. The one thing they had, they had no bad contracts. They had their superstars were on below market deals. Their depth guys were on cheap deals. They had a lot of young people coming in. Now they have a lot of bad contracts. And those little mistakes add up into big mistakes and that's been that's been ron hexthol's tenure here yeah i i struggled to like figure out what the play he is here beyond if you're going to get something out of grandlin's playmaking ability it's going to be kind of taking brian russ spot there on the second line and then kind of hoping i

guess that brian russ can potentially be the motor for a third line but honestly what i saw from that jeff carter brock mcad casparic cap and line they were like one of the least effective units that got as much runway as they did that I can really recall, especially being used so heavily. And, you know, they make all these moves to, all right, finally, we kind of admit or acknowledge our mistakes. We get rid of two of those guys. And instead they go go about it by just sacrificing even more future flexibility to bring in a guy who's not necessarily going to be in a position to get more out of Jeff Carter or anyone he plays with on a third line all of a sudden because it's clear that Granland isn't a play driver, isn't a points producer at this point if he's going to be using that role.

And so it's very, it's honestly all like really tough for me to to wrap my head around kind of the logic. Because usually even if you disagree, you're right. Even if you disagree with a move, there's at least like, all right, well, if you look at it through this lens, you can kind of talk yourself into it. You might not agree with it, but at least you can sort of see the logic used to kind of come to this conclusion. And instead, it really feels like this was a matter of, you know, Penguins fans for weeks and maybe even months were like incessantly just begging and pleading, like please throw this floundering in group a life raft like do something the top six is carrying so much of the weight help them out

and then they looked at that and they're like oh you want something all right be careful what you wish for bud and then they just went and did this instead like that's that's what i keep going back to because i can't imagine what the actual player evaluation was here that led them to this decision and the thing that um that there's just so many layers to this that are baffling to me and if you go back just like two or three days Nashville traded another one of their guys Nino Nita Ryder who has less term cheaper cap hit is a better player

by pretty much every objective major he also went for a second round pick for a worse second round pick because it's in 2024 yeah yeah so if you're going to if if if their plan here is to play Grandland on the wing and put them, you know, on the second line with Malkin or even on the third line with the Carter, if you're going to get a winger, why don't get the better winger for a cheaper price that it's just, there's so many layers that don't make sense to it.

And that's the thing that is just, that stands out so much about Hextall is he just does not seem to have a coherent plan. And you mentioned the capitan, McGinn Carter line and how ineffective it's been. Those three guys were taken up around 10 million in cap space this season. And those were all guys that Ron Hextall signed over the past year to those contracts. And when you look at the fact they have Cindy Crosby, Evgeny Malkin, Chris LaTang, Jake Gensel, those four guys, their combined cap hits this season are like $27 million. and they're all still playing it pretty close to all-star levels. I mean, Gensel hasn't had a great season, but he's still really good.

Crosby and Malkin are playing outstanding hockey, and you have those guys for such a below market rate. That should be a huge advantage in building a team around them, and they're in a position where the team is badly flawed. They've capped themselves out with bad contracts. It's just really, it's a really, bad look by the front office and their inability to, you kept these guys, but you can't build around them. It's wild. Well, Dom currently has them at 82% to make the playoffs. They're one point

behind the Islanders with four games in hand on them for that wildcard spot. Like, it seems like they will get in, right? And you've got Crosby and Malkin, as you mentioned, we're making 14.8 million combining it's a cap this year, which is well below what their production is warranted. They've both been fantastic. They both also have not missed a single game yet. They're turning 36 and 37 this year. And I think once you make the financial decisions they made as an organization this past summer of, okay, we're going to bring everyone back, we're going to go for it.

We're going to try to extend this window and we're going to compete with these guys. And that's all that matters. You kind of eliminate any room for indecision over the next couple of seasons, right? Like that's clear that that is your working objective. That is all that matters. And so for them to leave, there's still time in this trade deadline, but for them to leave owning their first round pick and next year's first round pick and some of these seconds, I know they just traded one of them, is quite like unconscionable to me, honestly, to think

about. about it makes absolutely zero sense. And this sort of decision paralysis was unfortunately a staple of Ron Hextall's tenure when he was running the Flyers, right? I think any Flyers fan would be quick to tell you about that. And we're kind of seeing that replay now here with this. I know they were kind of hammering him for a move he did make, but I don't think that it came from a position of strength where they were like,

all right, we can rationally look at our team and see what we need and then go and act accordingly. It seems like they're always sort of a step behind of like they were slow to address it. Then they were frantically trying to clear space. And then they just went out and paid a premium for a player they don't need. And those are pretty much all hallmarks of like how a bad organization operates. It doesn't have a plan, as you said. And that's stunning to me. I guess the question for me here before we kind of wrap this up is you mentioned that one of the hallmarks of that 2016-17 range for the organization was

how they were top heavy, but they had no term or significant dollars tied up to depth players, right? They maintained maximum flexibility in terms of being able to address needs on the fly. The other thing they had was this kind of identity under Mike Sullivan where they could call up anyone, they could step into his system,

he had a certain type of player he liked, and that player would always thrive under him. And all of these moves, I cannot imagine are Mike Sullivan approved moves. Like I can't think of a player, Michael Granland is the exact antithesis of everything the Mike Sullivan wants, right? Like you mentioned he's not a good forechecker.

He is, Jesse Marshall did a great video piece on The Athletic today. He has absolutely zero desire to get involved in the forecheck in any capacity. And so I just don't understand, like, good organizations have this sort of shared wavelength between GM and coach where they're like, all right, this is the type of player that I want and I need, go and get them. And then we're going to use them accordingly. And instead, it seems like all of these moves are almost like,

in spite of Mike Sullivan, try and alien him in a way and not to not to kind of give him a pass because i don't think he's done a particularly great job coaching this year either but it's not like they've put him in a position to succeed by giving him the personnel that actually thrives under his system there just seems to be i think that's a great point there just seems to be a huge disconnect between coach and general manager and one of the other hallmarks of the ron hextel era era in philadelphia was that he in in I think Bobby Clark, you know, ranted about this at one point this season. He seemed to act on his own.

Like, it was him making the decisions on everything and not having much input from anybody. And that same sort of thing seems to be happening in Pittsburgh, where there just does not seem to be much organizational cohesiveness between general manager and front office, between front office and coaching staff. And there's also the Brian Burke element in this where I'm not even sure what he does other than just, you know, be a figurehead in the organization. It just seems there just does not seem to be any cohesiveness, any coherent plan. They're they're all in on trying to win now with this core, but they don't want to deal any of their first round picks. Like what's the 18th or 19th overall pick in this draft class or the next draft class going to do for your rebuild? There's no chance you're going to find a player with that pick that is going to dramatically change the course of your organization after Sydney Crosby and if Ganyi Malcon retired. You're going to be facing a long rebuild there no matter who you pick with that pick. That's why I love the Tampa Bay approach so much where they just don't, they know they have their core right now.

They know this is their window. Now, you can disagree with how they've used those picks in the trades, but I agree with the philosophy. where these picks aren't helping us right now with these guys that we can still win with. We have to cash him in for what we can. And whether you love his approach or not, that's one of the things that Jim Rutherford got with the Penguins. He knew what he had in that moment and he knew he had to maximize. He may not have always made the right move, but he didn't care about six or seven years from now. He cared about six or seven months from now and what can I do?

for Sidney and Crosby and Vgeny Malkin. And that's the biggest change, I think, in approach. Well, and I mentioned there's still time left to make other potential moves before the deadline. And one we've kind of heard bandied about is like whether they would attach Marcus Pedersen to try to improve up front still. And I'm not sure if that is still a consideration for them. But I simply cannot stress how bad of an idea that would be considering how good he's

been for them and the contract he has it, especially in light of trading both Marino and Matheson for for downgrades. the position this past summer as well. It would just be staggering on all accounts. All right. Well, that was quite a glowing review of the Pittsburgh Penguins, but I think a necessary one because I've been just so baffled by how they've approached pretty much everything with all of the, especially bottom six decisions that they've made recently. Adam, this is a blast. Unfortunately, under bad circumstances for the Penguins, but still fun. Nonetheless, for me, let the listeners know quickly where they can check you out and what you got going on.

You can find me writing about the NHL and Bleacher Report. I'm writing at Yard Barker, Pensburg, SB Nation, any of those places. Check it out. All right, man. This is a blast. We'll have you on again soon. Thank you to the listeners for listening to the HockeyPedio cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.