The Hockey PDOcast - Jack Hughes, Red Wings Plan, and All-Star Game Events

Episode Date: January 9, 2023

Sean Shapiro joins Dimitri to talk about how good Jack Hughes has been, the Red Wings trying to balance the present and the future, and changes we'd like to see made to the All-Star Game.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Lessing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filipo. Welcome to the Hockey Pediocast. My name is Amitra Filipovich. And joining me for the first time in 2023. Feels good to say that. It's my good buddy, Sean Scherbero. Sean, what's going on, man?

Not much, not much. It's good to hop on. It's happy new year to, I think we, I was on one of your last shows of 2022, right? I think it was the last one of the, oh, no, no, because it was the one right before I went on Christmas holiday and then I did a few when I came back before the year turned. But yeah, one of the last ones. Yeah. But a good way to start nine days into the year.

But it's good to be on. And I believe that one drew rave reviews because it had a segment who liked to call Sean doing quick math on the show. Oh, yeah. Oh, boy. And I got some comments that were like, we need to make this a recurring thing. And just you just doing calculations, which aren't that hard if you actually have time to like sit down and you're not like under the gun where you're talking on.

on a live program, but, um, yes. No, it was good. All right, man. Well, we don't have anything necessarily specific. It's a Monday show, so I kind of just want to start off a new week, talk about stuff that's been on my mind over the weekend, things that I was watching. Perfect. I was watching all these games on Saturday and Sunday, and so we're going to run through a list

of stuff. So perfect. First on my list, we need to talk about Jack Hughes. And here's why. NHL's three stars this week, David Pasternak. I just did a big thing with Matt Porter on the show recently. I feel like I've talked about him on the PDO cast. A solid 25 to 30 times so far this season, I'd guess.

They've been covered extensively here on the show by me. But the second star in between those two guys was none other than Jack Hughes, who just absolutely erupted. And initially I was going to line this up by talking about how he's on a heater. But I don't think that necessarily even applies here because that kind of suggests, that framing suggests that he's just hot right now and this is an aberration. in reality. Like, I wouldn't expect him to keep scoring 19 goals and the last 20 games he's played or something

like that. Like, that's clearly on the high end of things. But just in terms of the impact he's having on the games, the way he's playing, like, how everything's come together for him and the level he's reached this season, it's kind of a new normal for him. So, like, I'm not, I'm not necessarily that shocked by it. But he's been so good that I felt like we needed to devote like a full segment that just kind of unpacking everything he's doing out there right now.

He's been good. And so he's, I'm basically. in the Detroit area and I got to kind of watch, they were in Detroit last week and I got to one of the great things about the Detroit press box is it's such a high advantage point but it's it kind of creates a bit

of a you're right over the ice. So you get the true overhead watching the flow of the game and there's time. One of the nice things about not writing about one specific team is it allows me to kind of watch games sometimes and just pick individual guys to watch. And I like

and Hughes was one of the guys from that game where it just kind of sat and you watch him from shift to sift and you watch the flow of the game and you watch kind of the impact as the transition in particular is fun to watch with how he goes just to kind of it's just from that advantage point and it's one of those where like if there's ever like they should do like someone should bottle up that camera view at some point because it's a great way it's a great way to watch the game to just to kind of from the exact above exact above the rank just to kind of see the way guys move the game and the way they're moving and then the game kind of reflects to the way they've been moving. And that's the thing that's most

that was kind of my biggest takeaway from watching Hughes last week is you can see the way he's impacting the game. But even the way he was impacting things before it kind of reflected what he was doing. That's that that that was kind of fun to watch just kind of do my own personal little ISO on him and everything like that. Um, he mean, he's yeah it's is it a heater where the pucks to use the old hockey cliche the puck's going in like i guess but it's he's been great i mean he's been great all year and this is this like it is it is well people say that and and correctly so like hockey like then hl has benefited significantly from the advancements in like television technology right like the yeah the HD

like you can see everything so much more clearly it's such a more viewer-friendly product when you're watching at home you sometimes when i do the these mixtapes of games from like even the like late 90s or early 2000s. It's like it's it's it's mind blowing to actually see some of the clips and be like, where where's the puck here right now? I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Like it looks like something cool is happening, but it just looks like an entirely different sport almost than right now.

So I normally say that just staying home and just watching. I mean, obviously it's easier because if there's like 10 games on it once, it's easier to flip through them. But I just think you almost get to like see more just watching at home because it is such a clear product. Jack Hughes is one of those players that I think seeing him in person is actually a massive benefit, especially from that bird's eye view, because sometimes the TV camera doesn't capture all the actions that he puts together to set up plays, right? Like, it shows him once he finally gets the puck. But by then, you might have already missed like 20% of the good

stuff. In like, they run these plays where he sort of builds up speed, which aren't necessarily unique to him. Like a lot of teams do it with their most skilled fastest, smoothest skating players. But like kind of this like slingshot action almost. right, coming from his own zone where he's able to gain speed and then all of a sudden he passes the puck off quickly, then really kind of builds up his speed and they get it back to him with a full head of steam and then he attacks downhill. And so being able to see that from that angle, I think sometimes the TV cameras almost don't even capture all of that. So seeing it from the press box is actually a pretty cool experience. Yeah. And he, I mean, the way he reads the

amount of like you also miss all these little things where you see how a guy reads things even when the puck doesn't go. But a lot of the times the puck does, you talk about those plays and that slingshot action and the transition. Like a lot of the times the puck does end up with him, right? But you start, you see the little things that he's doing the right way.

You see the transition for the potential for transition when the puck doesn't go to him. Like I think that's the stuff that you, you don't get as much on the TV because it's, it's, unless you have the true ISO cam, you're not really going to get that because it is as, it is the game where you do have to follow the puck of it as a camera guy.

Well, I'm going to give you a bit of a quick data dump here because it is the PDOCAS, but also because I want to set up my larger point here. So the devils have fallen off a bit in terms of team performance, right? After that hot start, they're 4, 8 and 2 in their past, whatever, 14 games. Now, you saw, it was, they were entering kind of dangerous territory in that Saturday game against the Rangers where they were out playing them, but they were just getting just certain basically. I was like, okay, it's going to keep up this trend where they're playing pretty good hockey,

but they're just not getting the results. And then Hughes just essentially put them on his back. And it was a really just jaw-dropping performance. I think two goals and an assist played like 23 minutes at 13 shots. It was he did everything. He's now up to on pace for 53 goals and 100 points. With him on the ice at 5-15, they're up 40 to 23. High danger chances are 173 to 85, which is basically like 2 to 1.

and is expected gold share 64%, which is actually higher than that on-ice goal share that I just mentioned. So he's actually been a bit unlucky in terms of the pucks going in for him while he's on the ice. And so I've been thinking about this because it's still so early, we're halfway through the season essentially, right?

There's so much story left to be told here. But this MVP race is kind of starting to take shape a little bit, right? I'm sure there's still going to be ebbs and flows and guys are going to be entering and exiting the conversation but beyond like McDavid who's going to have like 150 points this season. Tage Thompson, what he's doing if it keeps this up. I think he's, I think Hughes is certainly right in that mix alongside like Jason Robertson and David

Pasternak and whoever else you'll have, right? Like there's a number of other candidates for me, like Eric Carlson, Elias Pedersen and Matthew Kachakov off the top of my head, but their teams just aren't good enough this season. And so I think that's kind of disqualify them. So in terms of that elite tier where you've got the team success, but also the individual production and how responsible they are for that team success.

I was surprised that the Hughes, I think it's going to start snowballing here quickly if this keeps up. But I'm surprised because at the start of the year, the devil's winning a lot of games, but we were attributing it to all these different factors and the team success and everything. And then now they've actually kind of regressed a little bit in terms of that team success.

But Hughes himself has just gone completely nuclear and sort of overtaken that entire story, I think. I think the other narrative too with the Jack Hughes issue, is, and this is just the nature of how the hockey business and the media is, the devils aren't well covered. And it's kind of, I think that's also a bit of the narrative too, where you look at, I mean, essentially, there's one paper that covers that team, some major outlets that used to cover that team have stopped covering teams in that regard. And I think the Jack Hughes story is flying under the radar because the only people really to tell it are coming from,

people who are outside in New Jersey and people who work for the team. And so I think it's missing. The Jack Hughes MVP race is missing the person carrying the torch, like, locally, like the Jack Hughes heart torch. There's no one to carry it that doesn't work for the team because someone who works for the team, of course, you're like, oh, of course you work for the team. You're missing the, like, in Dallas, you have that at least you have the media there is fighting for the Jason Robertson MVP conversation.

You have that in Buffalo. You're going to have people who will push for for for forage Thompson when it comes to it. At the end of the day, like Jack Hughes doesn't have the, he's kind of an overshadowed market. And I think it's kind of a reflection of hockey media right now too. Yeah, he should be in the heart race. He should be in the heart conversation. He won't win it, but he should be in it. I mean, one thing he will win just because hockey writers, he actually has the perfect formula.

Assuming his season goes on pace right now, He is a cold stone lock to win the Lady Bing because hockey writers vote, okay, points penalty minutes. And he will, he is a cold stone lock to win the Lady Bing right now because he fits those, he fits that category perfectly right now. Well, you don't think he's going to get that, get that the claim to it stolen by Kail Makar's selfless act of admitting that Matt Barzal didn't in fact, it'd take a penalty on him and giving that back.

I feel that was like a storyline for a couple days there. I think too many people, I think of voting too much time to the salky here. I think too many people forget about, well, I think when too many people vote, and this is just a commentary on the industry of voting, too many people when they vote will completely forget about that. They'll just go like, I got to fulfill this part out of my ballot. So who had a lot of points and didn't take penalties? Here's a remarkable stat for you. So by Dom's contract model, he just put out an update.

his model's got Jack Hughes playing at a $15.6 million market value. And the reason why I bring that up is he's currently in year one of an eight-year deal where he's making $8 million per, which will cover his age 21 to 28 seasons. And I was thinking about this, man, this is the new McKinnon, right? It's about timing. It's about kind of getting in at the right moment. And like when they signed him to this deal, he was injured in his third season.

At that point, he had played 119 games. He'd only had 13 goals and 32 points. He was shooting 6% or something like that. And it was like the perfect time to make this investment. And it was a bit of pushback at the time. I think anyone that was paying attention or had actually watched him play in his first two seasons, like, was aware that this was coming for him. It was a matter of time. Like this explosion isn't out of nowhere.

But certainly like they got in at the perfect time. And right now it's like, it's, it's, it's, comical and it's it's wild to think what a competitive advantage that provides for them right even if the cap goes up at a bit slower pace than we were initially kind of over ambitiously hoping for over these eight years it still is going to go up by a pretty significant margin you'd think and for them to have a top however however you want to classify him as a legitimate MVP candidate at eight million dollars for all of his prime seasons is just is absolutely bonkers like this is how you win the lottery as a franchise, right?

Like drafting the player is one thing, but then getting them in at a cost-efficient price like this for all of their most important years is just unreal. It's impressive and it's a complete, it is the new McKinnon. It is the, because it'll take him to his 29-year-old season, right? Yeah, I think he's going to be,

I think he's going to be 28 by the time it's expiring and then he's going to be up for a new deal, yeah, heading into 29. Yeah, it's, it's, in reality and obviously it's you've set up that where you never actually have to sign him to another contract to be a success with new jersey like it's that's that's that's that's that's how good a contract should be it's it's so the timing was perfect he took advantage of it and i mean if you're new jersey it allows you to go and sign another andre palat for six million

dollars or something like that like that's that's what it allows you to do and it's if it's the new McKinnon. I can't sum it up any better than you put it. That's, kudos to you on that one. That's exactly what it is. Well, and you think they will be making those upgrades

because right now is his most common line-made and winger this season has been Eric Halle and I don't want to rehash or I had a big rant about it on Friday show just about how that's like not good enough for him. And I think they will address that eventually. But yeah, I mean, one final point on Hughes here,

like you mentioned the MVP race. I think people might be surprised to hear that, but he leads the league and goals above replacement, which is the best version of war that we have right now. And I think the way he's, the strides he's taken in his game are worth noting here as well, right? Like I think when he came in, you could see the puck skills.

And regardless of what happened, he was clearly going to be like a truly elite passer and playmaker, right? Like you could just see like the vision and his ability to get the puck to other people. But the way he's asserted himself already as a goal scorer and shooter as well is, is stunning, right? Like the first couple of years he comes in, it was clearly always going to be a work in progress because he needed to put on more weight and strength

and all that. He came in undersized clearly. And sometimes you'd watch him and like, he'd almost fall over when shooting the puck. He was like the puck was too heavy four times, right? And then now already at age 21, he's dominant as a shooter as well. He's only shooting like 14% or something,

but like I said, he's on pace for 50 plus goals. He's fourth in the league and shots. He's 10th in the league and shots from the slot. so it's not even a matter of keeping him to the outside or anything. Like he's getting to the dangerous areas. He's third in the league and rush chances. He's sixth in the league and passes to the slot. I'm looking at here.

Like his fingerprints are all over these games. He's getting to wherever he wants to. And so it's cool. Like I guess that's the summary here, right? It's not no one has necessarily been like, oh, wow, Jackie's is good. I didn't know that. It's just trying to kind of put into perspective how good he's been and how awesome of a story it is and how quickly it's all coming together for him.

I'm just curious if the devils have ever actually updated his weight. Like, because, like, you look at his, like, like, because I saw I was at the, when Detroit, when they were, New Jersey was in Detroit last week and everything like that. And he's listed, like, he's like, he's like, 511, 175. And I feel like that's what he's been listed for, like, four years. And so, like, I wonder if he actually, if, if New Jersey ever updated his weight ever, or if they lied about his weight four years ago and he's grown into, it. I just, it's a silly thing that I just always, when you see these things, because like,

I don't know, it's, it's a random thing that I'm just randomly thinking about. Like, there's no way that he weighs exactly the same as he did during the 2019-20 season. Oh, certainly not. Yeah. I imagine it's not probably as as up to date as you'd like to think, right? Like, and that includes the heights as well, not that guys in their late 20s are all of a sudden growing, but it's, it's, it's all over the place. It's really an untrustworthy resource, I think, in terms of being like, oh, this guy weighs this much. Let's just roll with it as fact. But yeah, I know he's clearly gotten significantly stronger and it's showing. All right. Was there anything else on Hughes or do you want to move on to my next time? No, let's go next one. Next one. All right. Do you want to talk a little about the

Red Wings here? Because I did, I did a segment towards the end of last week when Jakub Vrenna cleared waivers. And I did it with Ryan Hanna. And we were talking about it. Now we were kind of framing him more through the lens of Jacob Branagh and his current situation and the process for him to get back to the NHL and and I think, you know, rightfully we're kind of focusing on like the human element especially because that's what matters here. Now that a bit of time has passed, I do want to sort of take a step back and talk about the team component of it here because I think that was understandably lost in the shuffle,

right? It was like, all right, let's figure this out for Jacob Rana's sake in terms of where he's going to play what the best situation is for him. But for the Red Wings, it's interesting because, you know, they've clearly improved from last year. They made such a concerted push to do so this past summer where they had that spending spree and just spent a ton of future money on guys to come in and help them right now. And what they have to show for it is they're on pace for 84 points, which is, as I said,

an improvement. They haven't hit 80 since 2015-16, I believe. But in a year where two division rivals that you figured, they would have to beat out in Florida and Ottawa are having basically their worst case scenario seasons each. There's still like seven points out of the second wildcard slot or something in terms of the way they've been playing right now. And I think seeing what the Sabres are doing as well as another Atlantic Division team

should be kind of highly concerning if you're figuring out a logical blueprint to, okay, how do we actually get into the playoff race and how do we join some of these Atlantic Division teams up top? All of a sudden, you know, you've got the Leafs, you've got the Bruy. you've got the lightning. And then all of a sudden, you've got the Sabres as well, jumping into that conversation.

It's, it's an uphill climb and they desperately need more goal scoring and goals. And so I kind of wanted to like tie that all together because like, man, a player they could really use right now in their lineup is, is Yacobranda scoring goals. It's actually a one skill that a lot of teams are missing, but them in particular,

they like desperately need more up right now. Yeah. And he, I mean, I've checked out a little bit of his conditioning stint and everything like that. and he's still kind of trying to find his overall game and everything like that. But even before he, like, even before he got, before he went on to the player assistance program, and he had, he was actually, like, he scored a pretty goal.

Like, it was actually, ironically enough because we talked about New Jersey earlier, he scored in New Jersey on a goal scorer's goal, right? Like, really nice shot, picking his spot. And he hasn't. really done that yet in Grand Rapids. He hasn't done that in the HAL and he's someone who Detroit could use that guy. And on top of that, you add in all the other injuries, like eventually they're going to get Tyler Bertuzi back and everything like that. It's the whole, like the Red Wing situation is interesting because I was talking

to someone about this earlier today where like to me, it feels like they're playing with like house money right now. Like I feel like this year they're supposed to be kind of like in that they're supposed to like it's the one year where it was like okay to embrace that weird soft middle where it's like you don't want to be bad basically you want to be good enough where you're playing meaningful games for at least 75% of the season well well to build on that I don't think it's necessarily like yeah we don't want to be bad because I would argue being on pace for 84 points is still oh yeah yeah yeah kind of bad but I think what they what they really were after was building, you know, it's a, I know it's kind of cliche, like building an environment or culture,

but more so from the lens of like, you know, like functionally putting younger players in a position where you can better evaluate whether they are going to be building blocks for the future or whether they're going to be nice luxury pieces, which you could do with or without, or whether you should be selling high now while you can or kind of getting out while they still have value, right? And when you're really bad and you're 70-ish points and you're getting just, massacre at 5-1 every night. It's really tough to gauge how good a guy is.

Oh, okay, he scored tonight. Well, you know, the game was never in doubt. So what does that ultimately mean? I think getting into some more of these more competitive game environments and having these situations kind of gives them a better sense for the future. So even if they wind up picking, whatever, well,

the season or something, right? It's like, oh, we're kind of stuck in the middle. At least it does kind of work towards the future in a less obvious way, but it's still there, I think. Yeah. Yeah, and you're figuring out what you have in a guy like Elmer Soder Bloom. You're figuring out a guy what you have in Berger and you're figuring out what you have in all these guys. You're allowing the, you're allowing the more it's, is he good or not conversation about Moritz cider?

You're allowing that discourse to happen now as opposed to. Well, that was a self-inflicted unnecessary wound, I think. We can venture on, my goodness. Yes. And I like, I mean, I love Jacob Pullman. I love, I love Wallman the human, wonderful human, but he's playing with, he's playing with, he's the other guy who is now playing with cider. Anywho, it's, and then the other thing, too, with Detroit that you figure out is you want it, you needed to be in that space where you still have. And people forget that it, forget his age and everything, because I think just he's been around there forever.

But like, Dylan Larkin's only 27 and he's going to be a UFA, right? Like the other part of this was you needed to be good enough where the guy who you're looking at as your captain and is going to get pay is going to be up for a nice, nice, nice raise this summer. You wanted to make sure that he still saw Detroit as their plan is still viable. And I think that's the other the other thing that the wings have. I think they've done that. Like I truly believe that they can, I think if you're looking at where the path they're on, There's some decisions they made where you're like, okay, we shouldn't have done that. And there's some pieces they need to move on from.

But overall, they're taking the right steps and they're not going to be, for lack of a better word, because of the conference there, and they're not going to be like a false contender. Like in the West, you could, this team could be, in the West, you could, if Detroit was in the West still, you know, you'd be like, I know what that team might get in. And then they'll just get cranked in the first round. Detroit is going to have to build with these, because in the East, because they're in the Eastern area,

they're going to have to build a spot where you actually have to be a good team when you get into playoffs. You actually have to be a good team to win games. And I think in the long run, Detroit's on that path. The whole, the whole Verona thing is going to be interesting because it's, he's going to get a chance. The fact he cleared, he's going to be able to spend as long as he wants in Grand, spend as long as he wants in Grand Rapids.

He actually makes more in Grand Rapids than he makes in Detroit, because he doesn't have to pay escrow. He's got about a $500,000 raise by being in the AHL, actually. Don't check my math on that. And now for the next installment of Sean Shapiro. Don't check my math on that. But he'll still be part of the plan for next year. Like since he cleared, Detroit can figure out whether,

and if he's not part of the plan for next year, then they can still make a move. Like it's they're on the right path for things, even if they're not going, even if they're going to miss the playoffs by like 12 points this year. Yeah, it's, it's weird because I'm still skeptical. Like he should be part of their future plans. I'm skeptical that him clearing means that he is, again, in a weird way because of how messy the system is.

Yeah. He's becomes more movable now than he was when he was literally free because they can like, you know, they can, they can mess around with them. money they can retain or they can take back other salary if they're facilitated trade. So it opens the door for that. But listen, like I said, they're 24th and 515 scoring. The 28th and high danger chance generation of 515. You look, you go up on

Micah's site and you look at their shot chart. It's just a big blue blob in every dangerous area in the offensive zone. Like, they just don't really have very many guys who can create shots for themselves and others who are offensive game breakers. And that's exactly what Rana is. And so they desperately need that beyond just what his what like their future plans are and how he fits into them like right now in terms of what they're trying to accomplish they desperately need more of that so um do you have anything on

you kind of mentioned larkin there that's like the least talked about story in terms of his contract negotiation in future not not shocking considering the lack of leaks that they're generally are from steveyser and teams but like the lack of conversation about that is is kind of interesting to me yeah i mean like before this season or I can't remember it was before the season or if it was half, Larkin changed agencies too, which is also an interesting development too.

And the Lark, I mean, our pal Rope Hince did Larkins camp a wonderful favor. People forget that Hints and Larkin are the same age. They did him a wonderful favor by signing that deal in season for Hints, which just kind of sets up a bar that Larkin can, Larkin and Bo Horvette will both wonderfully look. at and use as launching pads. I think from my kind of, and the Detroit is famous for not having any leaks, Larkin is

being very up to, being very keeping everything close to the vest on this. So all of this said with a grain of salt, but I really get the feeling and the understanding thus far that conceptually Larkin likes the path, things are going in Detroit. right. He likes the way Derek Lalonde is taking things and he and and he sees a lot of good future with this based off my read on it and my conversations with Dylan on things where he obviously he's never talks about the contract. Of course, there was a very weird, awkward interview about it on TNT the other night where they asked them about it like right before the game. was a very awkward timing on everything.

It would have been amazing if he announced his new deal. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that would have been great. That would have been great. And so using my personal reading of human situations, and I feel like things are on the right track for him to be back in Detroit. Now, money talks because now maybe Steve is, maybe Steve Iserman is going to be, has decided that there's something else that we all don't

about but I feel like things are on the right track on that, but it is one of the least because of the organization and because Steve Iserman doesn't talk to the media, to any media at all, it is become one of the least. Like if, uh, like I covered in Dallas, right? Like when I covered Jim Nell, Jim Nell is a very media friendly GM. He's willing to pick up your phone call and everything like that. When I covered him, anytime you had a guy with a contract extension, it was so easy for any media member just to call Jim. And Jim would give the non-answer all the time, but it would stay and but it would just create story after story after story after story. The fact Steve Iserman is not available to the media ever really buries stories. Like for example, like I

actually felt really bad for, I felt bad for he's a coach, he's an NHL coach and it's his job to handle difficult things and all that. But I felt bad for when when the Red Wings waved Verana, Derek Lelan was, Derek Lelon basically had to take all of the personal questions, had to take all the questions about what's this guy's doing, what's this, why did you this, why did you do that? And that's not his decision. Like, I know he's the coach. He has part of that conversation, but that's not his decision. To me, that was one of the spaces where like, that's where the GM who makes the decision, the guy who signed the contract, the guy who makes that, that's, that's where it's his job to put his coach in a spot where he could hold a three-minute

zoom call, say, hey, I made this decision, here's why, or here's what I'm going to give you, and that's it. And but Iseerman doesn't even talk when something big like that happens. Like he'll talk. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's the same reason that, like, I have, uh, being in Detroit all the time. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm not allowed to talk to the, like, but you're not allowed to talk to the assistant coaches at all. And I, it's, it's pretty funny. We say hello to each other and we know each, and they walk off the ice to each other. And we, we, we talk when they walk up the ice and everything like that. We've said hello and everything. and everything like that, I won't say which one.

So just a case Stevie is a pediocass. So no one gets in trouble. But it's just, it's, it's one, it's a very one voice, one speaker for everything. I bet Stevie Y is a pediocast listener, but he listens to it at like 10 times speed while three other shows are playing and he's just sitting in a dark room and just trying to like absorb as much information as he possibly can in the most efficient manner. He's like, he's injecting it straight into his veins, yeah. He's got one, he's got like multiple headphones going and he's like,

it's while he's doing like the brooding overlook from, he's got an office that overlooks the practice ring. Absolutely. All right, Sean, uh, let's take our break here. And then when we come back, we're going to keep chatting. We are chatting with Sean Shapiro and you are listening to the HockeyPedio cast on the Sportsnet Radio Network. Welcome back to the hockeypedo cast here with Sean Chippero.

Sean, we did Jack Hughes. We did Red Wings in the first half. Let's talk about the NHL All-Star game because I know you've got some thoughts on this. And it's probably the one time I'm going to talk about the All-Star game here in the Piedocast, not an event that gets typically a lot of coverage here on the show, although we'll see, maybe this year if I decided to go out to Florida for the event. We'll do some fun stuff from there. But let's talk logistics.

Let's talk the selection process. Let's talk everything. What's in your mind about this? I, well, All-Star games in general are. I want them to be fun again I wish it's it's it's it's it's funny looking back like I remember as a kid we talked about technology on the first half

of the first half of this with Jack Hughes and how we can we can really appreciate with the HD and everything like that the other thing that technology has effectively killed All-Star games because like the fact of the matter is like this past weekend right how many of the top players in the world were you able to just flip over and watch all all the time right

like when you were a kid growing up like You could watch the game that was in your market and the national TV game. And you didn't really get to watch, you didn't get to watch the best players every night because it just wasn't possible. That's not where we were in streaming and all of that stuff. And I think that's what made the All Star game fun for me, like, like the nostalgia factor, where it's like, oh, I get to see all the best players in the world. Like, I actually get to watch them.

And now I get to watch them on a nightly basis because of how easy it is. And I think that kind of, I think that doesn't get talked about enough of why all Star games kind of got killed off, and I think that applies to all sports. I like this, this year the format, and the other thing is like the three-on-three thing is just, it's the NHL, like, it's so NHL to like see the result of something and then think that it's like, you know, like you have a coach doesn't change the lineup when they win, right? So like the NHL, because the first three-on-three All-Star game, and correct me if I'm wrong, was the John Scott game, right?

And it was like, the NHL took the narrative from the John Scott game that, oh, this three-on-three format is the reason it's great. And that's why they continued to make that the, and that's why that will, has lived in kind of perpetuity without really any real tweaks. I don't know what the better tweak is or not, but I think you have, you kind of took, you kind of took this, the three-on-three doesn't work because even when you add a million-dollar prize, when you split it between 11 guys who are all making making

okay more than that yes yeah exactly no math no math no math I'm trying not to do math but a million divided by 11ish or something like that it doesn't it doesn't really drive someone to actually want to block shots or to actually win the game no one really they don't really care they just want to be able to go to a warm weather city when all of their teammates have gone to other warm weather locations

outside of the continental United States my issue with the All-Star game becomes with where we have now, just we get to this format where I don't mind the fan voting. I think that actually makes part of it fun. But have you seen the process though? It's ridiculous. Give them like personal information including like access to your contacts list on your phone or something to sign up.

I saw something about that. I was like, what on earth is going on here? That's, yeah, I haven't voted yet. So that's, uh, I think, they're not. They're not giving out I voted stickers either. So maybe if you have that like I voted stickers, it would work. But because that's really only, that's the reason most people in the United States vote anyways, too, I'll get the sticker.

The fact of the matter is like this one guy from every team format just creates this weird stuff where it's like we need a effective proper voting campaign for the NHL's second leading score to be in the All-Star game. That's a problem. Like Leon Drysidal should not have to be voted into the All-Star game. We have the in the Central Division. And great story. He made 64 saves the other night.

But because of, but UC Soros is not the best goalie in the Central Division. Hey, you watch, you watch your tone on this PDOCAS talking about Easy Soros that way, okay? I love UC Saros. I love UC Saros. but based off this play this season, he should not be, he is not the first goal of first or second goalie choice from the Central Division.

Now, is he the first choice from Nashville? I guess. Well, the amazing thing is that like three, you could argue the three of the best, like five or six goalies in the league, though are from the Central Division, which is just so ridiculous, right? That's fair.

That goes to your point that all of those guys should be then recognized as such. Yes, yes. You should just get rid of divisions. Get rid of divisions. Okay. Okay, there's a couple, there's a, yes. Well, there's a couple of factors here at play, right?

One, I think the ideal version in our minds of what you'd want to see, right? What you and I would want to see here is a competitive setting where all of the best players in the league not only get to go up against each other, but get to play with each other if they're on the same teams, right? That's what we want to see is that dream scenario of combinations of guys who are on eight-year deals playing on different teams, making $10 plus million dollars that will never actually probably get to play together on an NHL team, but we get to see them on the ice in a competitive setting

against the other best players in the league and see who comes out on top. That ideal of that is not going to happen because hockey's a very dangerous game and no one's going to want to get significantly hurt during one of these events, and that's understandable. So I'm past that. I'm also resigned to the idea that

this event just isn't for us, right? It's for young kids who want to see the spectacle of it and it's cool. And that's totally fine. So I don't want us to be like grumpy old men here that are like complaining about it because it's just not. It's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's totally cool. But I'm with you like in terms of the, if you actually want to designate, if you want to use it as,

um, a historical document of sorts to be like, all right, this guy's been an all star this many times. And in the year 2022, 2023, these were the best players in the league. There's a better way to do it than force feeding one player from every team. Like, sorry, the Blackhawks just,

they don't deserve a representative this year. I'm sorry. So that's Joe. Stay home. Okay. This is not the year. And that's totally fine. Like,

let's get the best players into this event, even though they're not going to play at 100% speed and force and all that. Still, let's get them out there. and who knows. Like there's fun stuff can happen, right? There's so much skill involved. And you see on the, like on the day before with some of the events,

like what Zegris did last year and stuff, like that stuff is cool. And so we always talk about how the NHL doesn't know or doesn't like to have fun. And they always box themselves in in that regard. And they stumbled upon something last year. I'll be tooting in this year to see what happens in the skill competition and stuff. But there has to be some sort of a middle ground where it's still a fun,

relevant event while also acknowledging all. So acknowledging all the risks and all the reasons why it can't be whatever the ideal version of it is that we want. Can we just make the skills competition behind them? Can we just like turn it? Like I care more about watching the skills competition. Just like can we just turn around and make that the centerpiece and just kind of cut through the BS of people care about who wins the 3V3 All Star Game and everything? Like the skills competition is the, and I think the skills competition is actually a centerpiece that you can actually have a lot of fun with. and I'm going to pitch this idea here as well

because I pitched it in other places and I want people to do it. Trevor Zegris going to the All-Star game to last year to shoot in the skills competition, everything like that. That was a great precedent setter. The NHL always needs a precedence before it can do something fun. That's kind of what has to happen.

And so we use that and we use this puck and player tracking and we go and we use the data and we get the 12 hardest shots taken this season in the NHL. from just in a game. Does it matter who they are, doesn't matter where they are. The guys who have the 12 hardest shots in the air, you put them on a flight to Florida,

and we get a true hardest shot champion. Like, we get an actual hardest shot champion of, hey, you have had to qualify by having one of the hardest shots taken during the regular season, and we bring them all down there, and it's not the hardest shot of a guy

who happens to be an all-star. It's the hardest shot of the guys who took the hardest shots in the NHL this season. Same thing with speed. Like, for example, who are like, like, for example, like, who's one that, like, for example, guy who would have never been an all star in his life, but has always looked at as fast as like Andreas Athen to see you. Like never, never would be an all star in his life, but I would love to see him in the fastest

skater competition. So get me the 12 guys who have had the fastest speed in a game this season using puck and player tracking and get that and make that your feel for the fastest skater. So we have the true hardest shot. We have the true fastest player. and I would I would love that that would be the kind of a cool way to beef up the event that is already overshadowed what is supposed to be the centerpiece anyway you know what got me thinking

here's a here's here's following up on what you just laid out but an amendment you take the four goalies who are qualified in terms of games played with the lowest state percentage this season you put them in the nets and you have them face a certain amount of

Tage Thompson's lap shot. I understand people might think, wow, that's really cruel and unusual punishment. Guess what? Make some more saves when the games matter, and you won't have to face these shots. And you don't have to do that. And then you set a certain cutoff

where goalies at this point in the season are going to be the ones that are going to be in this competition. So you have a cutoff. You're playing until then. Imagine some of the goalie performances. we see how hard how like how are much some of these guys would be like trying to avoid being in I have our four right now because I've got the NHL media site right here and so this is by guys who qualify for the save percentage leaderboard okay the bottom four by save percentage by guys

who qualify so our four goalies in the all-star game for this this exercise would be Elvis merslickens yeah we'd have a capo cackinen peter morassick and jack campbell jack campbell would get another to the All-Star game. A fun. Yes. And also, you know what? That's a fun combination of goalies. And you know what?

Like, I'm looking at this board like Campbell and Marazer at 878. You got Spencer Martin, Philip Gruberauer, are at 881 right now. Like, if you told Spencer Martin and Philip and Phil Grubauer right now, like, you know what? You got to stop. You got to stop some more pucks over the next three weeks or you're going to the All-Star game. Like, probably like, that's the race that I want to follow. That's the race that I want to be tracked. And you know what?

The hilarious thing about that is if you were like, name five goalies that you'd like to see at the All-Star game that you feel like could put on a show, I think Petter Brasic and Elvis Merzikens would be like two of my five. Not the best. The ones that I'd like to see in that format in that format. So it actually works out. So that's great.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, my Alex and then Alex Steylock would be my other one too, just because he's crazy. Like, yeah, yeah, I like this. I think we're on to something. I think we fixed everything. I think we fix the world's problems with us. But it's just another event to deploy

Paige Thompson in as well. The other thing we should do too is you should take the, you know, the, you know, the Sy Young Award, the goals, goals, but no assists. The guys who are the leaders and goals, but zero assists, they have to be the passers for the, they have to take part in the passing drills.

Yeah. That's fantastic. I love that. Yeah. I mean, this would be, I feel like the NHLPA would, would fight against some of these recommendations.

But guess what? It's, it's for the good to grow in the sport. And honestly, I think it's only, I think it'll be fun. And so just let's, let's have some fun,

even if it's at the, at the player's expense. Oh, yeah. This is, we've got, if, if the all star game,

if the true all star game, basically lives in video game world, because like, that's essentially what, like the hockey ultimate team stuff is. Like, that's why that's so popular. We're like,

oh, this guy and this guy and I can build my own roster. Like let's let let let let us video game up the all-star game here. Come on. Yeah, because you think that with like the advancements in in skills, right, and some of those stuff we're seeing players do like part of the magic is you're seeing players do ridiculous video game stuff at like full game speed and competitive environments. And that makes it even cooler, of course.

So it's not, it's less impressive with it's just like a shootout competition or if it's just like no one's playing even the guys are kind of just skating around and doing whatever they want like yeah a lot of these guys are really skilled they do this stuff in their spare time and in practice all the time so that wouldn't be surprised anyone but still like i think there's a way to channel what we're seeing in terms of where the game is at right now and where it's trending towards which is this advancement and skill and guys trying new stuff and doing cool things and that's what this event should be about so you think it would be better suited to capture that right now but it seems like we're still so far away from like properly tapping into it at least like in terms of the game like the

skills competitions or cider are were fun last year at the barely so let's get a credit to where it's do yeah i will be interested to see how they find a it's just so hard to top the like you did the thing on the vagus fountains and you did the stuff on the vagus strip last year which was which was really which was really cool i mean interested to see how you you do that in Florida. I know obviously they'll try to go to the beach, but just like it's, you don't really, it's not like there's a good location, like where that arena is. It's not like, unless you're going to go do something like in the food court in the mall next door, there's not like, there's not a really good setup where you can at least pretend these things are happening

near each other. At least like that, that was one of the things I thought was great last year was they tricked some sports books because they filmed the, like on the stuff on the strip the night before. And so that had already been predetermined. Like, you knew who won and everything like that before. Like, I mean, the players knew who won and everything like that. And so, but it was still a couple of them, like the fountain face off or whatever it was called and everything. Like, it was still on the sports book. Like, there was a couple books that still had it available because they didn't realize it had happened. It wasn't happening live. And I would love to see, I'm really interested to see what they do to try to, I'm hoping they actually. I'm hoping they actually.

actually stick the landing on it because otherwise it could be really like I don't know how they do it. But I hope hopefully there's something good that actually you're like, oh, that's pretty cool with the stuff outside the rink when it comes to the Florida one. Well, they've got about a month or so, maybe a bit less now, but I'm going four weeks or so to to get it right and give it some thought. So hopefully someone at the league offices is listening right now and incorporate some of our ideas. All right, Sean. let's get out of here.

Let's plug some stuff. What have you been working on? Give the listener something that you're going to put your word out there so then you have to actually follow up, something you want to work on here in 2023. It's something that's been on your mind that you've kind of started kicking around and now you're like, all right. Now that I've said on the PEO cast, I'm actually going to have to go and write this up. Yeah, I do want to, I'm hoping an immediately short term right now this week.

I'd like, I've always like, Kyle Conner's always been an interesting player to me. I'd like to do something more on Kyle Connor and he's, the Jets are coming through town here this week. And so I'd like to do something on Kyle Connor. Hopefully I follow through with that. And it's something that people can read about maybe over at a, at EP Rinkside this week with Kyle Connor. With the Jets in town, are you going to go, are you going to go on a dinner date with our pal,

Rick Bonas? Not dinner, but we'll probably just catch up. Rick, Rick's a good guy. Of course. Rick's great. I mean, I love Rick. He's having a fantastic season. Oh, man, he is. He is. He's, I will be having lunch with our pal, I don't know, my pal, Ken Weeb tomorrow from Sportsnet. Ken and I are going to have a good lunch tomorrow. I think the one thing I want to do, and I'll put this out there now,

just because, and I know the story has already been written a little bit, but I think this is something that I want to nerd out with on some goalies about is we talked all about that that skill. We talked all about the, um, how that's changing the game and how the guys can do these things. And like the Trevor Zikra is like the Michigan is now like a actual part of his arsenal and stuff like I'd like to do something where just talking to goalies and goalie coaches in a real nerdy way about like how does what's the goalie counter to this? How does this, how do we start teaching, how do goalie coaches start teaching guys to counter this? And how does this change that because like I think I'd like to get dirty on that stuff and talk to some and I'm going

to have to now do it quickly because if I don't do it quickly Kevin Woodley will do it before me. So now I have to do it quickly and I've said it out loud and I've painted myself into a corner. So I have to work on that this month. So thank you. Yeah, I know. I mean, that is interesting. That is kind of the trickle down effect of some of the stuff we're seeing, right? There will be counters and there will be adjustments and kind of how the goalies handle that

accordingly is going to be fascinating so yeah I mean and listen we all know that golees give the best anecdotes and interviews as well so I feel like that's a good project for you because you're actually much more likely to get something cool as opposed to going up to a skater and then asking them and getting like the most like generic thoughtless answer possible 100% all right man well this is a blast um I enjoy myself it was great to have you back on we're going to certainly do this again soon if people enjoyed hearing us chat they can go help all the PDOCAST by smashing that five-star button wherever those are in the show.

And we're going to be back tomorrow with more. So thank you for listening to the Hockey PDOCast streaming on the SportsNet Radio Network.