The Hockey PDOcast - Jared Bednar, Chris MacFarland, and Our Live Show From Denver

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Thomas Drance to do a live show from Ball Arena in Denver at the analytics conference the Avalanche hosted this week. This episode also includes conversations we had with Jared Bednar and Chris MacFarland as part of the event. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

addressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name's Dmitra Filippovich. And we've got something a little bit different for you today. The Colorado Avalanche held their analytics conference at Ball Arena this week, hosting a wide array of representatives from teams all across the league. And as part of that event, they had Thomas and I do a live show,

a live recording of the PTO cast in front of the audience in attendance, which included a sit-down with Jared Bednar in the final 30 or so minutes. So what we're going to do here today is we're going to post that recording for all of you so that you can listen to it as well. And that's not all because after the live show, we've also got an additional interview with Chris McFarland just to keep the fun times going. Apologies if the audio quality isn't what it usually is when we're doing it from the friendly confines of the SportsNet Studio.

But I think it'll be worth it. And I think you'll enjoy listening to it. The conversations were fantastic. And I'm really excited about it. So hopefully you enjoy it. And here we go. Welcome to the Hockey-Pedio cast. My name is Demetri Filipovich.

And joining me is my guest as always, the athletics, Thomas Trans. Tom, what's going on, man? Hey, Dimitri, I'm doing well. Really excited to be here. This is a real honor for us. And for everyone at the back, by the way, don't mean to interrupt your conversations. but once we do have Jared Bednar here,

let's try and keep the socializing to a minimum. Not for me, but out of respect for our host and the head coach of this hockey team that plays in this building. So if you're going to socialize, maybe head to the wings, you know, use the whole concourse. That would be my advice.

Yeah, I would like to thank the abs for obviously putting together this event. Our pal, Eric Parnas, who is a PDO cast, OG guest, who used to come on all the time before the abs stole him from us. Honestly, I feel like I'm Paul Rudd in the Hot Ones meme right now where it's like, look at us. Who would have thought when we were sitting together in the SportsNet studio talking about niche third liners and third pair of defensemen and all of a sudden now we're doing a live

recording of the show at this wonderful event. So I don't know. Entire segments about Nick Blankenberg. Yes. And now we've got to play to the audience. By the team that treaded for him. Yeah. You know, and it's obviously a bit of a pinch me moment for the two of us, but also, I mean, we look around this room, we consider the fact that there were league meetings held yesterday for R&D staff.

I mean, just that fact alone is unthinkable in the context of where we were when we first started working together at Canucksarmie.com 10 years ago. And I look around this room and I see a lot of people I know, a lot of people that I came up with, but I also see a whole new generation of professional hockey operations, R&D staff, people whose technical and mathematical proficiency dwarfs mine, like exceeds mine by such a distance that it's almost unthinkable. I'm standing up, I'm sitting up here looking around and I'm thinking, well, I'm the dinosaur now, for sure, locked in. but it's amazing to see the rate of change and it's amazing that a gathering like this can occur especially the day after league meetings

discussing this topic. I think that's a pretty amazing milestone like a sign on the sort of road that really marks just how far we've traveled. Yeah, we were talking about this earlier. When did we start in like 2010-11 or so? We were scouring behind the net at the time, citing course REL and all that sort of stuff.

And now we've got conversations about AI and the application of that and micro trips and all the tracking data and everything. So it's remarkable how far we've come. I feel like if anything, all the people in this room, their abilities have far exceeded our own capabilities. But we're going to make the most of it here. So I know everyone here is waiting for the main event, Stanley Cup winning coach, Jared Bednar. And he will be joining us in the back half. We've got about 30 minutes or so before that to kill. And I thought an interesting conversation for us to have would be, you know, in thinking,

about this event and where we're at this point in time in the NHL, what a fascinating crossroads it is, both in terms of the on-ice product and how much it's changed over the past couple of years with teams being so thoughtful about how they create offense and really hunting out specific scoring chances and almost caring more about the actual quality the looks they're creating as opposed to a quantity that you and I came up with. And then certainly a lot of the conversations we've had about off-the-ice stuff in terms of team building and personnel decisions and the cap going up this past summer. And it's almost this time of change in the league where I think the uncertainty is going to cause certain organizations

to be almost paralyzed in a way because they don't know where the league is headed. And so they're going to wait to find out. And they're going to miss out on a great opportunity that some of the other enterprising organizations are going to capitalize on and be aggressive. And some stuff's not going to work. They're going to learn through trial and error. But an organization like the Aves who is having us here today, I classify as one of those. enterprising organizations and so maybe we can get into both the off-ice stuff but also the on-ice product. Yeah, I mean, they've clearly demonstrated that by showing us their great taste in podcasts hosts to do a live show at their conference. So enterprising indeed, you know, you bring up behind the net and you

bring up a really important term, which is trial and error, right? And, you know, I remember when I first started really paying close attention to this, right? When I was reading, the irreverent Oilers fans message boards and, you know, amazing that some of the original posters there, multiple original posters there have Stanley Cup rings now, right? It's amazing that it's happened twice. I think about this moment that it sort of clicked for me, where in a league where percentages were relatively fixed, where you could dependably count on goaltenders to stop 91.9% of shots faced at five on five, right? That in that environment, possession, volume, the ability to control play, which was shown to be the most repeatable thing,

was also the thing that, you know, we decided, tested, saw was sort of most important and somewhat undervalued. And that's sort of the edge that we focused on. And I think there's an interesting sort of dynamic where some of our understanding of hockey analytics, at least in its infancy, was shaped by the context of the league at that time. And as you alluded to, that context is shifting. We now live in a world where teams

don't reliably, on average, get 90% save percentage in aggregate, where the value of every shot is higher. And that's partly by design, that's partly as a result of innovation. I think a big part of it is skills development from the individual players themselves. I think some teams are aiding in that. I think some teams aren't aiding in that as much as they could.

I think it's a complex sort of correlation of forces that are changing the game, and we have changed with it. I mean, sport logic's tracking data, the way that we look at inner slot shots, the different things that we weight and value, I think, reflect that. And now I feel like we're at this sort of other sea change, where because we've basically had extraordinarily limited cap growth in the system for much of the last decade, if we're being honest, especially relative to what we've seen in other leagues, what we've seen in the NFL, what we've seen in the NBA, so much of our data-based player analysis in the public sphere, talking as a media member myself,

has been focused on identifying those undervalued players, right? Which player that's, going to cost a million dollars on July 1st can actually play on your third line and be additive. And what's fascinating to me about this moment is it feels like the task ahead for teams for people using numbers to talk about the game or for team R&D staff. It's less about finding the $1 million player who can provide $2 million worth of value and more about finding the guy before they're a guy, right? You're almost aiming a little bit higher. or I think you have to.

I'm thinking about, you know, you're Anthony Mantha type, right? Where it's, you pay him, and if you get third-line contribution, great, but the upside's there for him to be a 30-goal score, for him to be a real difference maker for your team. Or I think about, and to go back to the Pittsburgh Penguins, well, the Yeager Chinokov trade,

where you pay a couple assets, a couple futures, but you get a player who, you know, has a chance to be a top-six guy, maybe a top line guy. And with the work rate that we've seen from him over the course of this season, even if the finishing regresses somewhat, he's got so much dog that it looks like

they'll have a quality top nine piece for a long time to come. So I think that shift, both in terms of how we think about the importance of volume, the importance of efficiency, the ability to be more efficient than your opponents and sustain

and win by being more efficient than your opponents is sort of a big difference from how we were thinking about the game even five years ago. And I do think this sort of higher bar too for what represents a value signing is going to be, I think something that tests like the hockey commentariat, the conversations that people have around player transactions over the course of the next few years. Yeah, we saw the first kind of wave of this this past off season, obviously with the first Capps bike. And not only were we lucky enough to have Jared Bednar on today, but later we'll also be recording with GM Chris McFarlane, and so maybe we can

ask him more about this because he's going to be going through it with the abs. But you've been talking a lot about how teams are facing different decisions now atop the league, where previously we were so conditioned to believe that a team would win a Stanley Cup or compete for a Stanley Cup push all in, and then all of a sudden be backed into a corner against the cap where they would have to by nature be priced out of certain valuable contributors or have to shed parts just to fill out an active lineup, and that's not necessarily going to be the case moving forward anymore, and we saw that from the Aves in terms of their approach at this year's deadline, where they go out and they add Nazim Kodry, who certainly has term on his deal,

even Nick Waugh, who is an extra year on his deal, and they're going to have to make some financial decisions this off season, no doubt, but they're going to be dealing from a position of strength where they're going to be able to trade some of these guys that are on the current roster and get pieces back that help them either recoup draft capital that they sent out in those initial deals, or supplementing the roster elsewhere. And we saw that from them last year with the Charlie Quail deal as a great example where they acquire them at the deadline,

have a playoff run with him, and then we were so used to viewing that as a negative asset where you have to attach draft capital just to get off of the money owed. And instead, they're able to get Gavin Brinley and a couple picks that they're able to use elsewhere. And so I think that's almost the most interesting part where it seems like it's almost the best time possible to be a contending team because you have to face fewer difficult decisions.

Yeah, I think it's a shift in the scarce, the scarcest resources that you're managing, right? And again, a lot of how we've developed some of these tools, data-driven tools to measure player value, I think have been filtered through this lens of how do we maximize value under the salary cap, right? Because cap space, clearly, was sort of the most important resource, and you saw that reflected in trades, you saw that reflected in the fact that certainly during the most rigid austerity of those flat cap seasons, I mean, you saw teams get first round picks in exchange for buying out Patrick Marlow. That netted the Carolina Hurricane Seth Jarvis. That's hardly the only example.

You saw how stretched teams were to make every dollar count, and that created a whole variety of avenues for teams to improve, because it's not just your own free agent decisions. It's not just, oh, well, now Florida can resign all of Eckblad, Marchand, and Sam Bennett. It's also teams were buying out really good players, players who, less than 12 months later, would be major contributors for a Stanley Cup winning team.

They were non-tendering, you know, like 50-point centers in their mid-20s in the case of Strom, right? Those avenues are going to be different. the scarcest resource now is going to be talent. So I do think you're right that it's a really great time to be a contender because you have that. You have the talent. You have the starting point.

And I think this is also where, you know, I cover the Vancouver Canucks, so this occupies a lot of my thinking. How do you catch up in a league where the pressure on the teams that are overpowered in terms of, making difficult decisions that may cost them players are lessened as dramatically as they will be in the event that the sort of cap growth that we saw last offseason and that we expect to see this offseason becomes endemic year over year. How do you catch up? What sort of risks do you have

to take? And this is also where, you know, the only thing I've been able to come up with so far in terms of theories on this is to function the old way, to function the old way by over overpaying players and at least beginning to create real competition, you know, like back in, back before the salary cap, no matter what, the Toronto Maple Leafs would always have the best version of the fourth line center, right? The best version of the fourth defenseman. Now, that didn't always matter competitively for them because they weren't necessarily drafting as well as they need to or whatever else. But in terms of that baseline level of talent, they'd win the bidding for those players. And, If we get to a point where half the league is functioning more based off of internal budgetary constraints than cap constraints, you know, how does that change the sorts of decisions you have to make, especially if you're looking to accumulate versus, for example, what Montreal was able to pull off across the last few years, where, you know, you could use your cap space to sign Tyler Tofolie, he'd be a good mentor for your young players, then you flip him. You get paid to take Sean Monaghan, then you get paid to trade Sean Monaghan.

Those routes I expect are going to be far more difficult to execute. And honestly, I'd say the Calgary Flames who were in town yesterday are sort of an example of it where they took on Strome from the Anaheim Ducks. They had to pay for that privilege. I still like it as a bet to resuscitate his value, have a good leader around during a rebuild, sort of replace the veteran center gap that they lost when they dealt Nazim Kadri here. But also, you know, you're only going to get paid once out of that transaction as opposed to twice the way that Montreal was able to just three years ago.

And I do think that that change illustrates sort of the shift in the scarce resource management environment and how much harder it is going to be to accumulate talent. Like that's going to be what's so prized here. Do you think it's fair to say that we're also reaching a point where not only having a strong, pro-scouting staff, but even strong R&D staff, like many that are in attendance here, is going to become an even bigger competitive advantage just because I feel like we went through such a long period of time where contenders would do such cookie-cutter-type deals every year towards the deadline, where it would be look at the list of impending UFAs, trade a first and a prospect for them, have them for the playoff run, and then they go sign elsewhere.

And we're not seeing those deals anymore partly because a lot of the players who otherwise previously would have made it to the market have signed long-term since to capitalize on the current CBA, but also teams can retain a lot of those guys and keep them and give them extensions before they ever hit the market. So now you get to a spot where an organization like the Aves is needing to lean on identifying players who have future money owed to them in term that are going to be good fits for them. And obviously, they have the familiarity with Cadre and the fit always made sense. But a NICWA, for example, also fits in there. So all of a sudden, now you're going to have to be more creative.

but you're also going to need to lean on your staff a little bit more to identify those players, and it's not going to be necessarily as obvious. Like you're working from a bigger market in a way because it's pretty much everyone in the league, but now you have to pick and choose more selectively. I think what you're getting at is something that Eric actually mentioned in his opening remarks, this idea that we're programmed to recognize patterns, you know, naturally through evolution. Human beings are mimics fundamentally. We're like recognition of patterns and mimicking patterns and filtering our way.

worldview through familiar structures and patterns is how we're programmed to think. And I think that's where a lot of the same sort of rigorous ability to challenge preconceived notions that's kind of at the heart of what we're talking about sort of comes to the fore. It's just through a different device, right? During sort of the last decade, of flat cap hockey or relatively meager cap growth, we got used to evaluating moves and the behavior of contenders and sort of reacting to trades, signings, in not a cookie cutter way, because I don't think that's fair. I think teams were doing really intelligent stuff and we recognized it largely. But I think over time, we've gotten

used to the way that that looks, right? Expiring money is what contenders acquire. Well, now, as we've seen from Colorado at two consecutive deadlines, maybe there's value to acquiring guys with term that enhance your flexibility to recoup some of that value, right, as you make your decisions in the offseason. You know, I think we're going to see it with player contracts in a really significant way, not just yet, but this summer. I think this summer is going to be where contracts start to look a little bit different in terms of potentially teams spending more money to mitigate the amount of no trade or no move clauses, right? To prioritize flexibility instead of just shooting for the lowest possible cap hit

so as to maximize their talent under a more punishing cap level. You know, I think that's sort of where the change is going to come is a lot of the problems that folks in this room are going to be trying to solve are the same problems that hockey teams are always trying to solve. How do we get the best players, as many of the best players onto our team as we can in a highly competitive league? But I think the format, the, almost like the medium that those decisions are going to be expressed through, I think are going to look a lot different, maybe be warped a bit by a rapidly changing environment. Do you want to move it to Onyce a little bit? Yeah. So something I'm really interested in is you mentioned the current landscape

for goalies and say a percentage, and it's all the way down to 896 as a league average this year, I believe. I guess my question for you is, one, how far do you think the floor is for that in terms of how far we could push that because we know the teams are investing so many more resources and figuring out how to be thoughtful about not only how they're creating an offense, but the players individually passing up certain shots

to go from good to grade potentially. And I'm curious about this. I was looking at it. The league average, the first year, Jerry Bednar, started running the aves in 2016-17 was about 30 shots on goal per game per team and this year it's all the way down at 27.3 or something like that and I imagine we're going to keep staring in that direction now talking about patterns it's kind of interesting that I think you're seeing every team around the league trying to incorporate that and play that way but not necessarily having the personnel to do so

and having a lot of growing pains along the way I think it's ultimately a net positive it's showing a sign of the times and it's going to create better offense and more efficient offense, but I'm very curious to see kind of how far it goes before we have a pushback, because we know this stuff, ebbs and flows, and there's going to be rule changes and stuff that all of a sudden brings defense back into vogue, and goalies are once again above 900. I do think we're going to get there at some point. I'm just curious to see how far it goes before we get there. Yeah, well, and I think part of the story, too, is a very data-driven story at a league-wide level, which is that these stat counters are far more rigid about what they're declaring to be a save and a shot on goal. I think that's part of

this is an aggregate data story where because they're, frankly, because of the advent of gambling and player props, you know, there's a higher standard and it's reviewed on video and I think goalies are getting fewer saves on, you know, gloving a puck that was going wide. I think that's part of the story for why we're seeing shot volume drop. I think that's part of the story for why we're seeing save percentage drop. But I also think it's only part of the story because you watch how this Colorado team thoughtfully compresses space in the offensive zone and you watch how teams execute some of those anchoring plays in the neutral zone and then the way that teams are going about creating offense and it looks nothing like, do you remember those St. Louis Blues, L.A. King's

first round series from 10 years ago? I've tried to forget. Just pure wrestling matches, right? I mean, it was, I mean, honestly, I kind of loved it. I'll be honest with you. I'm a sicko. I'm enough of a sicko that I kind of loved it. Not that I'm wistful for it. Because when you say, are we going to see goaltending or save percentage get back above 90%, up 91%? It's like, God, I hope not. The game is so good and so fun to watch right now. So I really hope that shooters continue to win this war over the long term. As for a floor, I don't know, man. I mean, We're seeing 18-year-old defensemen and 19-year-old centers just come into the league and be heart trophy-level players so quickly. That's not different from what we've typically seen in hockey history, but it just feels like the volume of talent coming into the league and how ready and how dynamic so many of those players are offensively.

I feel like the floor has not been hit yet and probably has some way to go further down. And sort of what's interesting to me about that is this idea of efficiency as being repeatable, right? Throughout my education into advanced stats, I often thought the, yeah, well, you know what? Let's ask someone who really knows what they're talking about. As much as I enjoy chatting with just you and we do it every day, enough with the foreplay. Let's give the people what they came here to see. We're going to welcome Jared Bednar to the stage. He's going to join us for a nice little chat.

so let's do so now. Hi, everybody. Jared, welcome to the PDO cast. You're continuing a nice little trend here. I don't know how we got ourselves into this spot, but we most recently had Spencer Carbary on in terms of NHL head coaches, and we're really dipping into the South Carolina Stingrays,

Rolodex, Ryan Rosovsky, your next brother. A lot of stuff I want to talk to you about. We got about 25, 30 minutes with you today, so let's dive right into it. I want to start off talking about kind of the journey you've been on with the ABS organization and the longevity you've enjoyed at the position first joining the team in 2016-17 this being your 10th year now second longest 10 year to coach in the league what you went through that first year with the growing pains and the struggles the team had

working your way up progressively in the contention window to ultimately winning a Stanley Cup in 2022 have you had a chance to kind of like reflect on that and and sort of going through all of those steps along the way and sort of some of the different tasks that were involved for you as a coach in managing the team based on where they were at giving good points yeah well first off i'm i feel number one very fortunate to have even survived that first year as you know it's not a forgiving league when it comes to um lack of success so um fortunate for that ownership management team you know, just having some patience and sort of understanding where our team was at as a whole and where we were going to try and get to and start getting younger and sort of rebuild our club.

And, you know, one of the most fun years we had was probably that next year, no expectations, a whole new group of guys, young group of guys that were full of energy and passion. And, you know, we came out of the gates and just started playing some exciting hockey. right away like I think Joe and Chris they had a vision of what our team needed to look like and want what we wanted it to look like and you know throughout the course of the years they just went out and acquired players drafted players that sort of fit that style and it was a style that I liked and wanted to coach an exciting brand a fast brand of hockey and so that it was it was fun it was exciting we had nothing to lose and over time

expectations and the growth of our team, you know, there's different challenges along the way. When you're playing with no pressure and just trying to get in the playoffs, it's one task and you accomplish that and you're moving on to, you know, trying to win rounds every year and then trying to win the cup every year. You know, your team manages that well on some nights and some years and other teams not so much. So those are kind of the challenges along the way. from a standpoint of our identity and the way we want to play, it really hasn't changed much. Structurally, our game's the same tactically. It's grown, but it's still very much the same premise that we had going back nine years ago. It's just how do we do it better,

sustain it longer, be more consistent in what we're doing and trying to just find two things along the way. And I've been fortunate that it's not only me here a long time. It's our management team. It's a lot of our star players that we got. I've been with those guys a long time. So things that have changed, I'd say there's a lot more give and take now. They've developed into star players and guys that I trust deeply and hopefully they do the same with me. And so there's a lot of give and take, a lot of conversations that, you know, they have an active part in the way we play and what they want to do. And so there's a lot of communication there. And yeah, just trying to get back to the top of this thing as fast as we can and sort of repeat 2022.

To stick with that first season, sorry. Yeah. But we were talking about trial and error before you joined us. And when you reflect on the difficult that you experienced. Do you look back on it as a useful learning experience? Was there something, even if it was just personal resiliency, that you sort of took from that season that is informed or fueled your long tenure and success since? Yeah, I think, number one, like, you have an idea on how you want to play

and how your team wants to play. And I feel like even that year, everyone was bought into that. I don't think we had the ability to base. do that. I go back on some conversations I had with Joe at that time and he's like there's a handful of key guys here that you really want to focus on, spend a lot of time with. And, you know, we have a vision on where this team's going to go. And I want you to kind of stick with that vision and keep pushing that narrative and we'll see how we grow. And it's, there's a mental toughness there that where you have to

really believe in what you're doing. So there's a lot of work that goes into that because you're questioning everything when you're playing on a nightly basis and you can't get the two points and you have to push through and and keep selling it and at some point you know the season is lost

and you're still got to keep grinding for us. That was a long period of time which is very difficult. But then the next year when you kind of come back with a lot of the same things and you explain why you believe in them deeply and the way you want your team to look on a nightly basis and the players like it and they're excited about it and then you start having success. It becomes an easier sales job and an easier job to do to get them to continually buy in

the things that are giving you success because they're seeing results. But that was a tough year and it was, but it was a year that we used as fuel, not just me, our players, our management, everyone on just like really digging in and seeing how quickly we can become a team that, you know, needs to be reckoned with. I'm curious, just a last one on this subject, but I'm curious, too, about, you know, in the context of best practices, tactics, you talked about sort of constantly implementing them, having the space to fail, right, which we don't often see in this league, as you know, having the space to fail,

when you reflect on that time for this organization, even in a wider context, right, where, you know, you replace Patrick and this club had a false start, and Joe had the opportunity, too, to improve, to fail, to figure out exactly what it looked like to be the Colorado Avalanche that we see and watch today.

What role does that space play, I suppose, in, you know, not perfecting because you never get there, but in developing as distinctest style of hockey as your team seems to play nightly now. Well, I think it's essential that you have, that there's short-term goals for your team and then long-term goals for your team

and that everyone, ownership management, coaching staff players are all on the same page with that because you rarely get it right the first time. So you're like we're still experimenting to this day and we've learned a lot like you play a certain coverage. How can we have success against this coverage and you try things and sometimes they work and then, you know, teams get on to it and then they don't work anymore. And you have to be able to be constantly adapting your game plan within the structure of your game and your tactical plan and no one. what makes your team good. And so that's kind of always changing.

But we try here very hard not to like ride the roller coaster of, well, this was a couple losses or this was a bad stretch. There's always a bigger picture in mind. And if we like the way our team's competing and we like some of the things we're doing tactically, we'll find the balance and we'll, the balance and we'll work through them. And that's really, that's a tribute to the players, because they have to implement the things that you're talking about and they have to implement

them fast. Otherwise, you can get on these runs where you're losing a lot of games and things can get tricky, right? So there's an element of patience there that I've always felt from our management team and that I always try to relate to the players. Like, I don't, like we lose a game or two or three in some markets. It's the end of the world. And And for us, it's just sort of a little bit of a learning experience and how do we bounce back as quickly as we can to sort of get back to being as good as we were before those losses or being even better coming out of the other side of like a bad week

or a bad couple weeks. All right, I'm going to cut Thomas off. No more 2016-17 talk. No more failures. We're going to talk about some of the successes. Jared, before you joined us, we were talking about this kind of changing offensive landscape in the league that we've seen with scoring up, certainly.

shot volume down, say percentage down, teams being so thoughtful and meticulous about how they generate their offense, what they're trying to accomplish as opposed to just getting in the zone and firing it on net from wherever they are. You guys have been kind of on the forefront tactically with a lot of the stuff you've done, whether it's the quick regroups in the neutral zone to get that second wave of transition offense or even in zone, kind of how you force the defensive coverage to cave in on itself through sustained pressure and working your forward into the high ice and allowing your defensemen to pinch down low and be involved in the play and all that sort of stuff.

You mentioned earlier some of the tactical stuff and how you're not necessarily trying to reinvent the wheel but keep adding layers to it. I want to get into that a little bit because you've been doing this for a long time. Now you've been playing this style of hockey for a long time, have enjoyed a ton of success doing. So where do you just kind of see it going moving forward

in terms of what the next layers are or that and kind of what you're going to try to accomplish as the league around you tries to keep up and kind of join tactically what you're doing. That's difficult because I think it's ever-changing, right? As you mentioned, it... So, like, when I first... I'll go back a little bit.

When I first got here, we obviously had these guys that could really skate and push the pace, guys like Nate, guys like kale, like our back-end developed into a spot where we had a lot of, like, what I would consider offensive defensemen that could really... It's so hard to create offense.

You need five guys involved in that attack all the time, whether it's off the rush or in a zone play. Like we wanted to be working as five-man units. We deploy our guys that way sometimes. So we knew we wanted to like get going north quickly with good support and out of every situation, whether it was a breakout, a D-Zone coverage breakout, a D-Zone face-off breakout,

a neutral zone regroup, a neutral zone faceoff regroup, all of them. Like we wanted to be hitting the offensive line looking the same way, being the most dangerous as we could possibly do and try to repeat that as many times a game as possible. And then we got really good at that, okay? One of the most dangerous rush teams in the league for years. And then we got, we were in a little bit of a rut, you know, looking like segments and through the course of a season

end-of-season reviews with the analytics team, like that we would spend a lot of time in ozone play, but we weren't quite dangerous enough. Like we were a good possession team. We were making good decisions, but we weren't creating this sort of expected goals for that we wanted to create with that time. We weren't as efficient as other teams.

Now there were strengths to that, there's weaknesses of that. Can we find a balance? And we started to do that. And so part of that, like I feel like we were one of the first, teams to run three high a lot like Nate would end up between our D at the blue line attacking downhill a lot and we had a ton of success doing that for one

year than the next year and then teams started to take it away everyone started doing it and I'm not saying we were the leaders in that but a lot of good teams were doing that and then teams just figure out the coverage and it becomes less dangerous and now you're just standing around on the perimeter you know so we still use that tactic we just don't use it near as much as we would before we use it out of certain situations and coverage um we found that like when you study the numbers and you watch our team play there's a rhythm to our offense that we needed to low cycle more like you see a lot of teams a low cycle low cycle they're jamming it to the net it's hard to play a game so okay well so we need to be able to implement that into our game along with some of the stuff

we're already doing. So we find a balance on that and our numbers start to increase. We start to score more in ozone play. And I remember there was a time we finished the year and we were a dangerous offensive team. We were probably one of the top three in the league and goals four. And our interior low slot chances, the gritty area goals, the deflections, rebounds. We were like 27th in the league. And so we're like, okay, we got to get better at doing that. add that to it, you know? And part of that means you've got to shoot and retrieve puck. So we still feel like a balance for us is a 12 to 15 shot period with good ozone time.

And you're going to see a little bit of mix of everything. When we're shooting, we're a good retrieval team. When we're shooting and our forwards know we're shooting, then we're heading to the net quicker. And then we tend to have the skill to be able to make some plays off retrieval. and something that looks a little bit more fancy and more highlight reel type stuff. So it's always changing. And it's a copycat league too.

We'll see pick a team, Vegas, pick a part of coverage in a different way and we'll be like we can do that too. And that comes from our staff. That comes from our analytics department and that also comes from the players. We'll come in in the morning and someone will come in. Did you see that goal of Vegas scored last night? against L.A. And we pull it up and we talk through it and we, you know, get together as a group and

and the players try things on their own that they see. They get together with their linemates and watch the goals and just figure out how to be more productive. So it's sort of an all-in like atmosphere there and everyone's able to come in and share ideas and we take them all seriously. Yeah, I've been talking about this a lot all year. It's funny you bring that up. where every team in the league now is trying to explore that high ice and offensive zone and letting their forwards make more kind of what would be viewed as high-risk plays when there's a defensive stick. And we know teams are pressuring higher in the zone now as well and being more aggressive defensively.

And so not everyone has a Nathan McKinnon or a Marty Natchez up there making that play. And all of a sudden it's led to a lot of pickpockets high in the zone leading to a breakaway or two-on-one and going back the other way. And so you're seeing some of that trial and error in terms of the tradeoff as everyone around the league kind of tries to figure out how they could do their own version of it. No question. And then there's also, like for us, I trust our offense. I trust it we'll be able to create against the different coverages.

But you have to, there's a responsibility there too. It's you, if something's covered, it's not just we're going to make this whole play up top and risked turnovers and odd man rushes against. We talk a lot about, you know, decision-making under pressure in those situations. What's your, what's option A, what's option B, and like, what's your bailout plan, you know, and positioning and responsibility of the guys away from the puck. If they read that we have full possession and eyes up, what are you allowed to do? And if you, if he's under pressure and it's a 50-50 puck, where do you need to go to start thinking defensively?

You know, again, going back, we were also a team for a while that outscored our problems, you know, on the defensive side. We were too high risk, too. And over the years, you know, we've found that balance where we want to make plays, we trust our guys to make plays. But if it's not going good on any given night, then what's the next step we're taking? So we're also a responsible defending team as well. When I watch your team play, one of the things that stands out to me the most is how disciplined your group seems to be in zone, in the offensive zone, with just compressing space deep, like at the Bowman line sometimes when you can manage it, especially if the shift gets extended, if it's a heavy shift.

And, I mean, honestly, sometimes all three forwards sort of very close to the slot. It's a very small amount of space that it seems like your group attacks. I don't know how you refer to it, how you coach it, but I'm fascinated to hear. I'm fascinated to throw this at you and just sort of see what you'll disclose. Well, some of it comes naturally. Like just as you extend shifts, teams tend to, they're, they want, everyone wants to protect the house. Everyone is, a lot of teams are sitting in there more. And, you know, we just play.

Winnipeg and they sit in there tight and they allow Hellebuck to you know see a lot of shots they block a lot of shots and make it tough for you to get inside so you're in some coverages you're already kind of trying to squish the zone so you can score from some of areas even if you're on the outside I find for like my belief is that when you're shooting in the retrieve in the puck when you're using your points and you've got a good net presence and your points are unloading the puck to the net, you can force teams to spread out a little bit

and then we'll find space underneath and the forwards can cram it into the zone. Again, it's a balance. Some nights, you play the same team one night and you'll have a ton of success with it. You'll play them again the next night. You know their system hasn't changed. There's no real differences.

and then you don't have success. So that's why I feel like having different options and different things and that layered offense that we talk about can really help you because you've got to take what they give you to. So that decision-making and talking about that decision-making, well, can this guy just move here and draw a guy out there? You know, as you get to play teams over and over through the course of the regular season,

they're getting better at defending you and you need to get better at sort of picking apart their coverage as well. I'm curious how you view your role as somewhat of an intermediary between the front office and the management group and then the players, especially when it comes to the flow of information, whether it's after a game, certain things you're looking for before you can go into the tape, what you're communicating with the players, whether it's after a win where you're really happy with the performance

or whether it's after one where maybe you saw some stuff live that you weren't necessarily a fan of where you want to work on when you have a chance to do so, kind of how some of those conversations go, what you're looking for, and then how you're picking and choosing what you think is most valuable or, I guess, most relevant to disclose and to share. Well, number one, I've always been really impressed with our management because they're down after every game. They're always around. They're accessible to our players. Our players talk to them all the time, whether I'm there or not there is relevant.

You know, they have relationships with all their guys, and their guys feel very comfortable sharing information with them and vice versa. So everyone's, I find that leads to everyone being on the same page. But our management team comes down after every game. We discuss the game after every game. The one thing is they never come down and are critical. They might be frustrated with the way we played

or really happy with the way we played, but we never really dig into the game or, or things after the game because emotions tend to be high. Naturally, I don't really ride the roller coaster anyway. If I'm mad after a game, great. If I'm happy, great. But I never really kind of get into things that are too emotional after the game. One thing you might find interesting is I don't go into our room after the game.

Like I know you said you had carbs on. They've got all their post-game, like videos and all that. I don't go into our room at all. win or lose, rarely. If I go in, it's because someone hit a big milestone, or it's like we've lost a bunch in a row. We've rebounded. If I want to send a message right then and there, I do it.

But to me, that time is for the players. They have a big win, celebrate it with each other, enjoy it. Families come in. If we have a loss, the last thing they want to do is hear me, critique their game. you know, 20 minutes after it happened. So I don't go in, win or lose.

I like to take my time, go through my stuff, be very prepared and thought out. I have our analytics, our game tape, and so when I do my reviews, it's the next day, and I can talk about it clearly with the motion out of it. And that's something that I've just kind of got away from going in there after the games. So everything is relayed the next day on how we played

and what we wanted to look like, what we like, what we didn't like, what got away from us. Because I'm already critiquing that game and changing things in between periods. I do go in then to give them information. As fast as I can get it, they get it. If it's on the bench, if it's in the intermissions and that. But once the game's over, it's too late. Does that reflect an evolution for you,

not just in terms of your approach to coaching generally, but your approach to growing with a group that you've had this sort of long-term coaching relationship with? I think so, yeah, because I used to go in, like, in the American League and in the ECHL, and it's fun to go in and celebrate with the guys, right? But they don't need me in there to do that, and they certainly don't want to hear from me after losses.

Like, I think sometimes there's important things that you want to say, but you're not playing again right then. So they can hear it the next day, and it's probably clear heads. You know, guys are more receptive. Like it's a game review meeting in the morning before practice, and you can talk about things, you can discuss things, you can make your points,

whether it's, you know, great job at all this, or, you know, this was horrendous and we need to be a lot better, you know. But it's thought out, and then you can go out and practice those things, so you're better the next night. And again, once emotions out of it, it just becomes part of your daily routine

and the way you want to go about your business and what expectations are. And, you know, sometimes there's a lot of games here now with the club that we have that we get wins and they should be celebrated. You should enjoy them because they're hard to get. But that doesn't mean we're going to be real pleased with the way we played on that given night.

You're good, Jared. I can tell you've been doing this for a long time because I asked you that question and you very carefully navigated it. So I'm going to circle back to it and really press you on it. Let's say it's the next day then. What are you looking for post-game in terms of either relevant information,

whether it's certain combos or matchups that worked or didn't, where your team was creating the looks from what you were giving up defensively? What are the sort of the things you're looking for as kind of like benchmarks or like real litmus tests that are going to either match or disagree with what you saw live and then what you saw when you went back through the tape? Yeah, so first thing I do, I do it in intermissions because I want to know what we gave up.

I look at scoring chances against, you know, again, I trust our offense. I want to know that we're committed on the other side of it. So I pick through all the scoring chances against and all the scoring chances for those, because ultimately that is the game, right? If you're creating enough dangerous looks, you get a good chance of scoring. If you're preventing those, you've got a good chance of winning, right? So I look at those first. We get our analytics report sometime through the night once it generates.

I match the numbers. And then I pick through all. I'll always have things in my head during that game. Like what our forecheck look like. To me, your forecheck is your first, like, indicator of work, right? If you're willing to put it in and go check it back and you're doing a good job of that and you're sort of relentless up-ice pressure, it's an identity point to our team. right?

Entries. How many did we have? And how many looks I do? Are we just settling for setting up? Are we too fancy? Is there too many turnovers? And then like zone time is a big one for me. Like are we closing plays out quickly in DZoned, the rush coverage?

So I pick through all of it. I kind of have those like six to eight points that I want to get to first. But I'll have things in my head from the game where, geez, we were just not good on our regroups. Like we're trying to make something happen on every rush where we refuse to use our forecheck and we're giving up too much

on the rush because of that or too much. We're giving up zone time. So those are things that I'm always kind of noticing and checking the numbers in intermissions. And yeah, and then we kind of make sure if it's better the next period then I'm

giving the guys the information on that too. And then we basically cover it again the next day to make sure that guys have a clear understanding on why we're really good in the first and third and not the second. And I just feel like you're just selling the identity of your group, the rhythm of your play, the structure of your game, why it's important. And sometimes it might just be one thing that hurt us and it's an easy meeting. And sometimes it's a lot of things that we're good or bad at.

So you're processing a fair bit of data both in-game and post-game. how selective are you with what actually gets passed along to your group? Yeah, so I think like our analytics team digging deeply on everything. I select a portion of that because sometimes it's a lot of information. But in the back of my head, I'm still watching the game knowing that like I have these other nuggets that I haven't shared. So I select a portion of what they give me, and then I relay 50% of that to our team. And so for me, it's a pre-scout. They dig in on our opposition.

We haven't seen Calgary yet this year. So I dig in and I have an idea that they're a quick breakout team, six fastest in the league. They're fourth fastest through the neutral zone. Like everything's up and out quick. and so we have to manage our depth on our forecheck right away. We want to hunt their D. They're prone to some turnovers,

but we need to manage our depth because we can't let guys get in behind us, right? That was an important point for us last night. I felt like if we got on top and quickly on the forecheck that we could create some turnovers we did. Their coverage is a similar coverage to what we'd seen before that our team tends to have a significant amount of success

against you're just kind of hitting points again from some of the teams that you just played that had the same coverage. We wanted to make sure we're shooting the puck and challenge them inside. We did that. And then on the defensive side of it, like, what do you need to be aware of? But their numbers, I give them numbers, like, they're not getting decimal points. They're getting their rank in the league, you know, their fourth fastest through the neutral zone.

And, like, sometimes I'll have our little nuggets beside it. So we dig in that way. And then when we do our data, it's more in depth, like segment reviews. I don't get too worried about, like I said, the one, two games, the week, whatever. But when you've got through 10 games, we want to try and be top five and everything. So if there's something that's like if we're not scored, we haven't scored enough goals in a segment. And I'm noticing that we're just not, doesn't seem like we're shooting the puck enough. and we're not getting inside enough.

Generally, when the numbers come back, all of a sudden we've slipped from fourth or fifth in the league and low-saw chances to 27th. And guaranteed, I've got a lot of video that can match that. When our deer shooting, we're standing around on the perimeter, everyone wants the puck. So, you know, that's not a recipe for success. Like, our numbers are going down because of it.

So I sell it to our guys. And where I'll give our guys a lot of credit It is over the years, it's not, like, when I address something, it's generally the next night. Now, the next night, I'll check it. I'm like, that was enough interior chances to put us first in the league. You know, if we do that every night, that's first in the league, not 27th. They fix things and implement them very quickly, which is why I think we've had so much success this season. Well, based on my viewing up the game Monday night, I think it was a very effective pre-scout by you in preparing.

for the opposition. Let's end with this, we've got a couple minutes left. You know, we talked about your longevity and your tenure with the ads and how long you've been there as a byproduct of that. There's been a lot of roster turnover along the way, right, via trades and free agency and bringing you guys in, especially it feels like the past couple years would bring in in Martin Nages last year and Brock Nelson, now bringing in Cadre and Nick Waugh. You mentioned the identity as well that you've kind of established and like the infrastructure or offensive environment and the way you play. I imagine part of it is it's easier to drop someone into that, considering how already well-defined it is and how you have a lot of the drivers of that success already on the team.

But I'm curious in terms of how you view that from either a challenge's perspective or an exciting proposition when you find out you're acquiring a player and then figuring out how you're going to unlock them and get the most out of them and what you can do with them, given your tactics. Yeah, so that's, it is easier. There's no question. because we've got a team of like, there's a very business-like attitude with our team, you know. Some years may be too much. Like, you got to enjoy the game as well, you know,

like, you know, we start training camp and you know you only have one goal here for the last, you know, half a dozen years. But it's going to be a long road to get there, right? So you've got to enjoy the game. You've got to lighten up. but they're still very regimented in what they do. It's just the sort of nature of the guys that we have.

It's a focus group. It's a determined group. And the second you kind of walk into our room as a new player, you feel that. So I do feel that the players, like, help drive the commitment quickly from everybody else and the expectations from everybody else. Now, the new players can handle that differently. Sometimes the players might be overwhelmed or uptight or play, like, they're, you know, scared to make a mistake.

And so I try to be very clear with our new guys. Like, this is what I've seen out of your game in the past. This is how I think you can help us. And then I let them play for a while. Like, I'm not going to them every night. Like five games in, I'll pull a guy like Nick Wosside. Hey, like, you're doing a great job on the defensive side of things. But I've seen you be more dangerous offensively.

Lighten up a little bit. Take a few risks. You know, like, so that's my mess. message just so they feel comfortable being themselves. You're not acquiring a player to try to just get them to do a specific thing. You want them to do what they do best. So they got to feel comfortable doing that. And when you're like the later in the year that you add them and depending on the pressure that's on your team at that time, it can make players tighten up and you want them to feel comfortable and lose and playing instinctually as quickly as you possibly can. So that's kind of like

my job, the assistant coach's roles, like just really sort of digging into our new guys. Number one, that they're clear on the structure and what the expectations are, and then you've got to go be yourself and feel free to play. I got one more for you before we let you go and close out this

live show for the PDO cast. You know, last year, you guys wind up using 43 different skaters, kind of trying to figure stuff out on the fly with injuries and roster turnover, totally remodeling your goalie room. This year, certainly you've been pole position pretty much from start to finish at this point. I know the value of especially after

how last year ended securing home ice throughout and how good you guys are playing here at Ball Arena. How do you sort of view getting the most out of this regular season when you know that your goal is winning the Stanley Cup, getting back to that mountaintop? That's ultimately how you're going to judge whether this season was a success or failure for you. Kind of how do you navigate all the steps along the way to make sure you're optimizing the regular season and getting the most out of it while you have this time ahead of you. Yeah, so like winning and securing first is very important

to us. It was a goal that we had at the start of the season. So we don't want to leave points on the table with too much experimentation. Having said that, I relay it to the guys. Like, listen, you know, Mac, you're not playing with

Marty tonight. Marty's going to play with Nellie. I know you can play with Marty. I know you want to play with Marty. But I'm going to move them down. They're going to, we're going to see what, like, we want familiarity so we can be flexible come playoff time. We did it in 2022.

You know, we had, the way just kind of was working out, we played Mack with a set of wingers at home, and we played them with a different set of wingers on the road because of the matchup. And we did that a lot in that playoffs, and it was very beneficial to us. I don't want them jumping on those lines for the first time. Plus, we've got a lot of new players. So we're trying to find the chemistry. I love the way our fourth lines playing.

I know what that's going to be. What do the other three lines look like? How, you know, sometimes it changes that maybe doesn't make sense in your head. You put someone there and they find chemistry or you add something to a line that you're not expecting and it can work out. So I'm playing with that now already.

We've been doing it with our D pairs a little bit earlier because we're very comfortable in the way they kind of line up. And that's worked out well for us, it hasn't dropped our production. And we're going to continue to do that through the course of this regular season, just sort of play around with some things, knowing that when games get tight, I can always go back, which I basically just did that twice against Winnipeg, flipped them and then flipped them back in two straight games.

and then we put Marty back with Mac yesterday, and obviously they had a big offensive night. So there's a little bit of give and take on that right now just to be as prepared as we can possibly be for the start of play out. All right, well, we've got to get out of here before they start playing the Oscars music and kicking us out. Jared, I wanted to thank you for coming on and taking the time. I wanted to thank our pal Eric Parnas for setting this up

and for all of you out there listening for joining us. That's all for me. Thank you, Tom, for joining me as well. Let's give it up for Jared Bednar. Thank you, guys. All right, as promised, that is not all for today. We had the coach's perspective with Jared Bednar. Now we're going to bring on Av's GM, Chris McFarland, for the GM perspective.

He was kind enough to make some time for Thomas and I to get into a couple of fun topics regarding the trade deadline, the Aves approach throughout it, some of the business decisions ahead, how they've put together this team, how they view integrating new players. that they acquire via trade and why they feel confident they're going to fit and look so good in their environment. So we covered all that with Chris McFarland. It's a really fun chat. And I think it's a perfect way to close out today's show. Welcome to the Hockey Pediogast. My name is Demetri Filipovich. And joining me is my good buddy Thomas Trans. Tom, what's going on in? Not much. With you in Denver, we had a great panel with Jared Bednar. And we're not done yet. We're not done yet because we had the coaching perspective while we're here in town. We've got to get the GM perspective as well. And so joining us is a good buddy, Chris McFarland. Chris, what's going on then?

All right. Nothing much, guys. Welcome to Denver. It's been a good day, interesting day. And thanks for having me on. Our absolute pleasure. I mean, we had a great chat with Jared today, really drilling deep into his use of data, how he processes that data, how he presents it to players. And obviously, we're going to ask you some similar questions. but, you know, one of the things that stands out to me is when I think about the trade deadline that your club just executed, and I think specifically about the price that your club was able to pay to add Blankenberg, a depth defender who's been very productive over the course of this season in Nashville. He's a physical player despite being a bit undersized.

And contrast that with the price paid by teams that wanted size. on the back end. It occurred to me that, you know, between an undrafted free agent and Malinsky, you know, even, even seventh defenseman that your franchise has been able to get good contributions out of over the years, Jack a con this year, but in the past, McDonald, for example. It seems to me that there's actually an implication or a benefit in terms of the acquisition cost of the types of defenders that you seem to be able to execute or, or utilize well on the third pair as a result of your defined style of play. And so I wanted to ask you just in terms of the collaboration with your head coach, in terms of playing in a fashion that actually

in some ways creates like a value edge for you transactionally, is that intentional? Is that sort of the fruits of good process like a happy accident? How did that sort of come about and how has it evolved over the years? Yeah, that's, it's a great question. I think Jared and I, and obviously, when Joe decided to bring Jared on, Jared and I have, have a long history together going back, you know, to our days in the Columbus organization. So I, I think I have a good feel of, you know, the type of player that he likes. I think, you know, the way we like to play, you know, it's, I think we, there's sort of an intuitive part of this. But You know, and a lot of times with things, you know, when we're just, you know, talking hockey, you know, if we're looking to do something big or, you know, we'll use our scouting reports.

Obviously, our analytics department is something that I lean on heavily. And then I'll take stuff to Jared. And 95% of the time, nothing comes of it. but I really like the coaching input, almost as a sort of a dashboard warning, like, you know, system that I, you know, I don't know if it's me, but I like to, I like when there's not an initial agreement on things

so that we can kind of peel the layer of the onion back. But when the scouts are excited and the analytics, and it could be in a certain area, right? Like, you know, a strength of their game. that I think, you know, I think or and Bessie thinks might fit our sauce, when it matches up, then it kind of, it kind of gets all of us excited. To be honest, I think I'd be lying to you if I said, you know, if we had Gerard and Malinsky, you know, on the roster,

that blanks would have been the right target for us. And that's through no fault of his own. is the player that he is, the scouting report, and the analytics are what they are on the player that they, you know, for years. But I think when we were able to do the Kulak deal, now I certainly felt comfortable that, okay, we can, we can look more closely at blanks, you know, because he's, you know, he's not the biggest cat in the world.

You know, he's a tenacious defender. you know, for his size, he's a good penalty killer. I know he probably got into a little bit more of an offensive sort of situation in Nashville than what we, you know, would be looking for him out of that spot. But I knew the analytics side had a good profile on him. We knew, you know, from, we tried to sign him years ago. So we had a little bit of a history. We knew the character of the player, really competitive.

And I think that's one thing, you know, when if a guy's 5, 9 and not. competitive. That's probably not a great mix, but this, this player is competitive. And when we made the trade, we wanted to add, to be honest, we wanted to add two defensemen. And we weren't, weren't able to get the other, you know, deals that we were talking about. They were at different acquisition levels, but we weren't able to get another one across the board. So, you know, Nick is, is going to be an really important player here down the stretch for us. But, but yeah it was kind of the competitiveness and some of the attributes in his profile kind of where we felt were round peg round hole now I do think stylistically the way we

defend in the defensive zone which is sort of a little bit more of a man on man scenario is an adjustment for players coming in and you can see it right there's a little bit of a you know we're looking over you know looking over our shoulder when we get bogged down and with how we, you know, if we get bogged down in the D zone when players first come here. But I think he's smart enough and his feet are good enough that he'll adapt pretty quick. It's unbelievably on brand. And I apologize for my partner here, Chris, that we started talking about your trade deadline and immediately went to Nick Blankenberg.

I think we're the only show that would focus on that is your biggest trade deadline acquisition. Yeah, it was an important one. It was certainly. Yeah, it was an important one because, you know, our old friend, my old friend, Terry Martin, you know, was on our scouting staff for a long time. Always reminded me from day one that you can never have enough defensemen. And, you know, I think, you know, Jack Ashon did a really nice job for us earlier in the year. And, you know, fortunately, you know, we have him on a two-way contract and we can keep him playing down there.

But like I said, yeah, I wish we were able to get another veteran, you know, across the finish line that, you know, could be a left shot. And because you guys know, you, you, you want to play, you know, for hopefully as long as we can. And there's no guarantee you got to, you're going to need to, you're going to need some bodies back there. So something I wanted to ask you about is over the years, I think you guys have had a lot of success identifying and bringing in players who were good productive players in previous stops, but clearly fit perfectly into your system, whether it's from a playing style perspective or just having more untapped offensive potential. and just attaching that nitrous pack to their back and allowing them to fly here in altitude, they just took off and started scoring more.

I think of guys like Lekinen or Natchushkin in the past, Brock Nelson last year, Marty Natchis recently. I'm curious for your take on the process of kind of what goes into identifying those types of players, whether it's really feeling like their range and motor or skill level are going to fit in nicely with the star players you already have in place. Or kind of what goes into identifying.

identifying those guys and then feeling confident that they're going to come in and look as good as you hope for when you're kind of doing it all behind the scenes on paper. I think that's a great question. I think first and foremost, I'll give credit to our coaches and our players. I think it goes back, you know, seven, eight years now. They've, the work they've put in on and off the ice. And I know that that's kind of a buzzword culture, you know, type of thing. but I think Bedsie alluded to it in his chat with you guys earlier.

It's a serious group. It's a dialed in group. And winning is important, how they take care of their bodies, how they practice. And I think that's a credit to them that they've become an extension of the coaching staff. I think, you know, some of the guys there that you mentioned, like Val Natchewski, I think, you know, when we first signed Val, I think it was a combination of draft pedigree and, you know, looking at this is a different player

than what we have. It's a big body. It's a, he's a long player. Could our player, Nathan McKinnons, the Gabriel Landisoggs at, you know, Miko Rantan's at the time, you know, could a little bit of that, you know, rub off on Val.

But I will, I will say this, our analytics departing. played a big role. You know, Val was a, he scored zero goals, right? And then he goes back. But his defensive metrics were really, really good. And with checking, as busy as tells me, checking is not optional here. So we players have to check.

And it's checked to get to play offense, right? It's get the puck back so that we can go on the attack and play in the offensive zone. and we felt that Val's defensive skills would translate, you know, at some point and some way in our lineup, and then the offense started to, you know, started to click. And there's a lot of tangents we can go off on that as to why. But I think the talent was in there. But initially he earned his trust by checking and being a good defensive player. And then it popped.

You know, Andre Burkoski was another one that, you know, we spent a lot of time. time on. He was a good player in Washington and he had very good transition metrics and we like to get on the attack and and through the neutral zone, you know, again, the marriage of, you know, our pro scouts and and the analytics piece was we felt this was a player that would would fit in at the, you know, at the time of the acquisition and the around peg round hole for us in a second line and yep we were kind of a little bit different than val his defensive side was the area where bedsy was going to have to drill down on but he had this special ability got a great shot but he had this special ability to transport and allow us to play in the offensive zone so

i i think i certainly lean on those on on those guys um in all facets of of what we do i and i really value their input and and when when i can marry them with with bedsy in the video, it's something I really like. I was sitting in on your panel here at the conference, which is great, by the way. And during it, you talked about how it's a privilege to be in the position the a abs have been in for the past couple years, where you're kind of firmly in this contention window,

where you're pursuing a Stanley Cup, trying to get back to the mountaintop after winning it in 2022. Do you feel like there's any added pressure to do so, given the situation you're in with the abs where, you know, for a variety of reasons you've fallen short the past couple years, you've already tasted that success previously. You've got the Marty Natchez extension kicking in. Kail McCarer's got one more year at his current number.

I'm curious if you feel that at all or if it doesn't change it. And regardless... No, I think we all feel it. I'm not going to lie, right? But I think that's a... That's, you know, I'm honored to work for an NHL team. It's been a dream come true and something that I'm humbled by, you know, every day I get to walk in a rink and scout a game or, you know, be part of a, you know, a fantastic organization and a great

league. But, you know, you know, this is what we all want, right? We all, the goal is to, you know, throw, throw that beautiful trophy over our heads. And each year, you just, you just hope that you have a team that, you know, can be considered, whether it's three, four, five, six, seven, eight, you know, teams that have a chance. And I think, you know, I think this year we've continued that. I thought last year we had a really strong team. And, you know, I thought we were really good down the middle. And the goaltending was doing its job.

And obviously you have guys like Nate and Kail and we got gay back. And we just didn't get it done. So, but I think the players, you know, the players tell us, you know, and the start we got off to this year. was obviously incredible and to their credit, you know, we just felt if we can make the team a little bit better this year, then that's what we have to try and do.

And, you know, I think it was highlighted on, you know, we'll have to at some point, we got to obviously keep an eye on the future and you can't keep doing this. At some point, you're going to have to trade and get some picks back or prospects. But there's different ways to attack that too. obviously with the success your team has had the championship but also the sustained regular season success

you know model organization within an NHL context probably is a fair label that that occasionally gets applied to you but one thing I'm really curious about is how your hockey operations department exists within sort of a constellation of teams all under this sort of KSE ownership conglomerate right because while we described the avalanche that way, NBA fans might describe the Nuggets that way, and they've recently won a championship, and football fans would certainly describe the Rams that way, and we'll see how the runout in the EPL goes the rest of the way,

but right now it's looking pretty good for Arsenal. And in addition to that, across the board, you know, like you heard us ask Jared Bend, are a million questions about compressing space. Well, that's been a fixture of Sean McVeigh's football in Los Angeles. that's been a staple of Arteta's attack in Arsenal. Our best practices shared, what's the sort of overall interaction of the avalanche

within that constellation of sports teams that fans wouldn't see or think about necessarily? Well, like, right, I mean, you guys are obviously here. Literally, you know, right before we just went on, you know, Porig, who runs the MLS team, and he's obviously so. super tapped into Arsenal and Ben Tenzer who runs the Nuggets is a, is a good friend.

And they're literally right down the hall. So it's, you know, I'd be lying if I said there wasn't sort of a, you know, comparing notes, whether it's on analytics or, you know, building, you know, internal software and things like that. We certainly have used the Rams. You know, we visited with the Rams folks. They're great, you know, with us, inviting us in the summer. we can go and spend time with them and have access with their coaches.

We have access to talk to their analytics people, listen to their draft process. And, you know, when Gabe Landisog was going through, you know, his ordeal, we were, you know, we were trying to leave no stone unturned. And we were, you know, asking for advice and insight from all those medical teams. And I think it's a huge advantage that the KSE, you know, brand has. that we have all these incredible minds that that I certainly can can tap into on the management side. We, our analytics, you know, Bedsie can talk to, you know, the coach here with the Mike,

whether it was Mike Malone or Adam and in the past, Sean McVeigh. So yes, it's a, it's a big, big tool that we're fortunate to have at our disposal. When you trade a first round pick, do you get like a thumbs up text from Les Need? I haven't had that pleasure yet, but I have, I have had the good fortune of, you know, when we go to L.A. and Les and his group are super, super open with us and get to peek behind the curtain, the odd time. And as a, as a sports fan, it's really, you know, cool. It might be not the right way to say, but it's great to be able to bounce things off those guys. And they've done their fair share of winning and they're aggressive as they come

and how they go about their business. Kel McCar will become extension eligible this summer. He's not the only perennial Norris trophy contender who will be this summer. And that's not a dynamic that is going to be foreign to you in those contract talks either, given that him, Hayeskin and Hughes all expired at the same time out of their ELCs. So how I don't want to say complicated or tricky because that's reductive. How different are these sorts of talks likely to be given that we appear to be through the sort of flat cap era of austerity that's kind of defined the last five to ten years of NHL business? Yeah, I think it's going to be incredibly interesting, to be honest, right?

like we've gone through it a few times, you know, with some big deals during the, during the COVID era and the flat cap era. And it, and it, you know, I've said it a few times. And it's not an excuse, but it's just reality that that unfortunate incident, obviously, you know, affected, you know, came at a rough time for the cycle we were in and cost us the ability to sign, you know, players that we would have liked to have kept. and we're not the only team that had to deal with it, obviously. So that's just the reality.

But I think now, I think it is fair and super intriguing that, you know, the fact that we might be, you know, having foreseeable jumps, that are we going to be looking at more and more players doing the chunk type of thing where you do a shorter-term deal for more kicks at the can and how each player, you know, wants to attack, whether it's, you know, the guaranteed and longer money or we're going to chunk this thing. And for whatever reason, there's different reasons why a player may want to chunk it. So I think that's going to be a real interesting dynamic, not just for the three incredible

players that you just mentioned, but I even think coming off entry-level deals as well. See, Mack, I've got one more question for you, and then we're going to let you. you go. You know, you were mentioning earlier, one of the things that comes with being a contender year over year is that eventually you have to figure out a way to either take a step back or recoup some of the draft capital you've traded in the process. I'm curious for your take on whether you feel like with the cap going up, the marketplace is changing a little bit. And I want to loop in the Charlie Coil and Miles Wood trade you guys made last off season. Just from the perspective of cap going up, everyone has more money available.

we're seeing some of these contracts not treated the way they were previously, where we saw contenders boxed in financially and then having to send out additional picks to get off of some of the money they'd already invested. In this case, you're able to trade two players, get back Gavin Brindley, who's on an affordable contract, and then a second and a third as well,

which you're able to use elsewhere. Do you think that is a sign of the changing times and something that'll continue, or do you feel like last off season was a bit of a strange one off? Because the cap all of a sudden went up, and teams were trying to figure out what it meant, how to act accordingly. Yeah, I think that's a, it's a good question. I think obviously we made the trade for Charlie with,

with the idea of, you know, hopefully it would, it would help us to win. And Brock wasn't signed, right? And we gave up a really good prospect in the middle of the ice in Cal Richie, you know, to get that done. And then, you know, to kind of fit Brock in and, and do some other things. We knew we were going to have to find a way to, to get creative and move out some money. And obviously we had some exhaustive talks with different permutations,

whether it was, you know, Charlie or other players. And I think it's just a sort of a credit to the player Coyle was that there was a lot of interest in him because he's a big, right-handed center, you know, defensively well-versed. And he had one year left on his deal, right? and that's something that's, you know, where a lot of teams get their ears perk up type of thing. And that's the one we were able to get over the finish line. But we didn't.

We had a lot of time for Gavin Brindley as, you know, a skater, a competitive kid and a guy that we, you know, felt could play in the bottom six and believe he'll just get better and better. But, you know, we're going to have to, you know, we're going to be at, we obviously have been active in the college free agent market. I think we've, you know, done a nice job with Logan O'Connor and Sam Malinsky. Looks like he's going to be a nice player for us.

So, you know, we've signed Matt DeMarsico and Gustav Sternberg here in the last little bit. But we're going to have to find those types of players until we recoup some draft capital. And obviously, you can recoup the capital, but those players aren't playing for us for two, three, four years, you know, anyway. So I think our group is with Kail and Nathan. I still think they've got a lot of good hockey left in them and Marty Natchez is young. And, you know, so we're going to have to fill around the edges. But I think the tough to find pieces are going to be okay for a bit. Well, you don't have to sell us on Gavin Brindley, CMAQ.

We, um, earlier this season. We did a Sunday show and we were talking about Brinley and Thomas was saying he was so excited to check him out live while you guys were in town. And that was the night Gavin Brinley scored an overtime winner here to Vancouver. So we felt very validated and vindicated in our take. on the player. CEMAC, it was a pleasure having you on. Thank you for taking the time during this very busy day during the conference.

And we'll have to do this again sometime down the road. Pleasure to meet you guys. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. And that is all from Drans and I from Ball Arena and the Analytics Conference, the Avalanche hosted in Denver this week. What a W for the summer series of this past off season, which really helped lay the groundwork for getting to do something as cool as this.

If you want more content from this event, right after the conclusion of the conference, We went to the DNVR bar and we recorded a show from the studio they have there with myself, Jack Han, John Mattis. We kind of treated it as a follow-up to the conference. Some of the biggest takeaways we had, some of the most interesting stuff that came out of the conference, some of the conversations we had throughout. That was a really fun one as well. So if you'd like to listen to that one, just subscribe to the PDOCast Patreon.

You're going to get that and a bunch of extra content there moving forward as well. Also, please give us a five-star review. Wherever you listened, hopefully you enjoyed all the content we had for you here today. As you can tell, I'm losing my voice at this point after talking the entire days. I'm going to take a quick breather here, and then we're going to get back to work right after I get home in a couple days and get back at it. Thank you again to former PDO cast guest, Eric Parnas, for setting all this up. Thank you to Jared Bednar and Chris McFarland for indulging us and really providing us with some fun conversations. And thank you to you, the listener, for listening to the HockeyPedio cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.