The Hockey PDOcast - Jumbo’s Retirement, and the Week That Was in the NHL

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Thomas Drance to talk about Joe Thornton’s retirement ceremony, the Oilers best and worst, why the Jets have been more good than lucky, a couple of rebuilding teams showing encouraging signs, and the rest of their main takeaways from the past week in the NHL. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the HockeyPedioCast. My name is Dmitra Filippovich and joining me back in studio on a Sunday evening for our Sunday special here that we've been doing for weeks now is my good buddy Thomas Trans. Tom. What's going on, man? Dimitri, doing well. It was a fun weekend or a fun week of hockey, but a fun weekend of hockey too. Lots of storylines. Lots of bad news.

I feel like this was a bad news week overall for the NHL when you can see. consider Ovechkin and J.T. Miller and Austin Matthews and the continued uncertainty around that. Like I feel like in some ways there were a lot of body blows to some of the most enjoyable things to watch in the league. But nonetheless, the hockey's been great. There's been a ton of fun things. And I know you want to start off by talking about one of the funnest things we've seen all season. Well, I was going to say, yeah, it was a bad week if you want to view it through that pessimistic lens. I'm viewing it through, all right, Ovechkin will be back probably in a couple weeks. I don't think it was a worst case scenario considering how bad it looked.

hopefully J.T. Miller is going to be okay, but it sounds like he, at least the connects are expecting him to be back at the end of the road trip when they come home. And Austin Matthews is going to come back with a full head of hair. And so it's going to be a, it's going to be great. I think it's all going to turn out well for us. It was a monster Saturday in the NHL. I think at one time there were about 10 games that were all just rolling at the same time.

I was trying to flip through all of them, keep an eye on it, because there were a lot of really fun matchups, and we're going to get into all of them and sort of the big takeaways from the Saturday that was in the league, but I do want to start with that Joel Thornton retirement ceremony. I just cannot believe how electric every noted hit was

from start to finish. He comes out, as you noted, glittery, looking like the undertaker. The glittery undertaker. He's walking through that big shark head in the shark tank, right? He comes out, he gives this speech. He's basically like a pastor giving a sermon.

Like after every note he hits, he lets the crowd soak it up. he like, who, like just, like, just celebrating the entire time. It felt like such a beautiful

and perfect celebration of him. I actually, I felt super nostalgic because I don't know if you're feeling this way. It's been happening for a while now, right? I think, like the Cidine's retirement in particular was one that really hit close to home for us

considering their relevance here in this market and how we kind of watch their entire careers unfold. But it also, like stuff like this is starting to make me feel old. Right. Because these are players who we like track their careers the entire way, especially these.

got to like live through their apex during this internet era as well where like so much information could be passed and you could just keep tabs on everything and now their careers are over and you're like reminiscing about the good times and it's like oh man I can't I can't believe this is already happening the buoyancy I think of of Thornton's overall commentary I think is true to something that I do think set him apart which was, you know, you're talking about the internet and the way we changed sort of the way we interacted with. Consuming in general.

Well, and especially a player who, like, played in San Jose, right? All of a sudden, you know, in Thornton's sort of prime San Jose seasons when he's elevating, you know, Chichu and the sharks are just steamrolling through the Western Conference in the regular season year after year after year, you know, they were appointment viewing with, like, the bad lighting and the weird camera angle. You know, for me, living on the East Coast in my early 20s and during university, it was like, you know, 1030, what's going on? Oh, the sharks are going to absolutely pump X team that's on a road trip. And it was, you know, one of the worst viewing experiences from a quality perspective.

But, I mean, they had Randy Hahn. They had Drew Remenda or like that broadcast team back in that heyday 10 years ago. It was incredible. And they played exceptional hockey. And I think what you could see through a lot of what Thornton, just Thornton's vibe. Yeah. Forget the material. Just Thornton's vibe was, you know, one thing about sustaining the level of regular season success that that team was able to throughout 15 years while he was at his peak is,

an NHL season's a grind. It's a hamster wheel. It's tough to keep having fun day after day after day while also working hard and also playing really well and also getting better. overcoming all the stuff that happens over the course of a season. But when the heartbeat of your team, the guy with the C on their chest is Joe Thornton, just like rollerblading without a shirt and, you know, saying let's go. You're doing naked photos shoots with Ben Burns. Yeah, every couple sentences.

It makes it a lot easier. And, you know, when I, when you see that speech, it's like a glimpse into a certain joy for life that I think Thornton has and that I think his teams played with, frankly. Like when I look back on it and think about what made those teams special, they played fun hockey. They really did. And that's the shame of it for me, not that they're the only one that's kind of gone into a time capsule like this, but just how unfortunate it is that like for whatever reason people chose to disparage their lack of playoff success in terms of getting to the mountain top as the lasting legacy as opposed to appreciating and celebrating the longevity and how impressive a feat it is to without any real dips along the way. however long that run was just like staying at this certain standard of not only excellence in terms of winning but also entertainment value and how fun they were right they never even I don't know you can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't really ever remember them having

any sort of run during that era where it was like the deal hunter capitals where it's like they're in a crisis right now where they're just trying to grind out games and they're boring and maybe that ultimately was to their detriment in terms of never finally achieving it, although in that last final Sonswong season against the Penguins, they came really, really close. But I just appreciated that so much. And I think the entire ceremony really got to me for some reason. First off, I think it was just an unbelievable, let's remember some guys moment,

because so many of his teammates turned out for it. And it was like, hey, there's Tommy Wingles. And we got a Ken Huskin shout out. And I'll just say random names for whatever reason. I just like etched into my memory and my brain from all those years. I thought it was also incredible and a testament. I definitely had Wingles stuck. There was a there was a point once upon a time where we would have been doing my guys

and Wingles would have been high on the last. Oh, the Wami Tingles days were you just had to be there. Yeah. I thought it was a testament to the character and personality and leader he was that in watching that and hearing the speeches that his teammates gave and the impact he had on their careers, how genuine it was. And it really struck a court with me because, you know, Ryan Klo gave this whole thing about how when he came, he, like, didn't know if he belonged in the league and whether he

could crack it. And, like, Joe Thornton, like, reinforced that he did belong and, like, made him feel, like, a regular and, like, he deserved to be there. And then he had this career that he had along the way. I also thought, and both guys kind of mentioned it in their speeches, but whether it's Tom Hersch hurdle and how Joel Thornton stuck up for him, after all, the criticism he got early in his career from that four-goal performance, or Brent Burns coming from Minnesota and sort of being at this crossroads of like,

what type of player am I? What position do I play? Like, how do I fit into the grand scheme of things here? I feel like all of these great players that we've been treated to and gotten to enjoy their careers ever since might not have happened if a guy like Thornton doesn't cross pass with them at that very crucial point in their own individual careers. And then Joe Pavelski had this beautiful note about how like,

when he first met Thornton, Thornton was hard on him about like wasting shots. And he was like, and I remember actually those days because Joe Pavelsky was quite a volume shooter at a time. I remember I was playing fantasy hockey back then. I'm like, oh, I love streaming Joe Pavelsky because he's going to get four or five shots on goal tonight.

And he was like, no, it's not way shots. Like having the puck is very important. Just get me the puck, get open, I'll give it to you and score. And then how Joe Pavelski went to Dallas and essentially like passed on that wisdom and that playing style to all these young guys in Dallas who are now are sort of the new generation in the league. I just thought all of that was really cool. That sort of lineage of like this lasting impact.

He had beyond just his own point totals. accolades, but how he, the impression I guess he made on the way the game is played today. The efficiency of it, right? And, and. Which at a time was ridiculed, right? Like, even, he even joked how, like, oh, this, I've heard this crowd, like, yell shoot at me so many times, but that was never my game, right? And that was it. Yeah.

It still happens in ranks, but, like, this sort of lack of understanding, I guess, for a better way of putting it of, like, not realizing that just putting the puck on net for no reason is not the optimal play, especially when you're as good of a passer as he is. A more explicit understanding that what players have to do when playing attacking hockey is assess the value of various opportunities. I mean, we talk about expected goals as much as we want, but that's what great playmakers especially, and the players most likely to be yelled shoot at are doing it all moments in a really fun way. I remember, because Thornton's been around long enough to be etched in my memory in a specific way for this. but I remember when Corey Schneider first dropped that all three zones data,

and I was like, oh my God, right? And it completely changed my understanding of all these teams. And one of the things, one of my big takeaways, like I, you know, pitched in, I got the data. I was parsing it myself. And I have this memory of noticing that what really mattered in terms of matching what the teams that I thought were the best teams, right, with the data was, the ability to generate a significant positive margin of entry attempts.

Forget how successful the entries were, whether they were dump-ins or carry-ins and remember how much we were like, no, you got to carry it in, right? Like we had all these notions about it, but it actually didn't matter. What mattered is that you were winning the battle in the neutral zone sufficiently enough that you were attempting a greater raw amount of entries. And it was like Detroit, Babcock's Detroit,

and Quinville's Chicago Blackhawks were the poster boys for it. And I remember I teamed up with Bourne back in the score days because we had this all three zones data and I was like, let's isolate something that teams do well, right, and see how they do it. And I remember the thing that stood out about the sharks was that their raw entry differential was completely bland, right? Middle of the road, not bad, not good. But the amount of shots they got off of and of every variety. right they were by far the most efficient team and so for that to be reflected after his career for that to be something that the pros that played with him remember him bringing to the rank yeah like it was so pronounced that it showed up in the data and i do think you're right it's had an

impact a transformative impact in terms of how offense is manufactured in the n h a one do you think of the era we're in now just our understanding and now they were able to quantify more as you're saying of like what type of shots are valuable how you want to pick a part opposing defense whether it's that stuff off the rush or even like a quick pass off of a rebound as opposed to just jamming it back, trying to like pass it across. Guys like Thornton and Henrik Siddeen were doing this stuff sort of like intuitively, partly because they were wired that way, but I also think they just had such a high level understanding of how hockey needed to play even at a time when that was in commonplace. And we weren't able to like attach it with a report after the game to the numbers that show why you should be doing that. They just weren't doing that already to begin with. And so for me, I think that is sort of the lasting legacy and impact.

And it's amazing for a guy that for all the awards he won, all the individual and team success, he had along the way, what he had, 1100 regular season assist and other 100 in the postseason. I think for me, that's the coolest part of his career. The impact he had in the game and his teammates.

And I thought that that's why it was such a beautiful ceremony, because it really, I think, helped capture that and put it into words. And so, I don't know. It just got me. It got you. It got you in the fields. I was like, man, this is awesome.

I just like, found myself. just smiling, just watching it. And so I think a lot of people probably felt that way watching that. And I hope a lot of players watch it and, you know, take stock of the impact that that guy had. Because, you know, I will say, it doesn't feel like they make him like Joe Thornton anymore. And that does suck. Now, let's talk about some of the games that way. By the way, they wound up playing the Sabres. The Sabres come back and win that game. And just along this theme, the first two goals of the game, why I believe Zetterlin scores.

And he starts doing like a stroking his beard celebration and pointing up to the raffir. and then Peyton Crabbs scores and he's also wearing number 19 and he's like pointing at the back of his jersey. I thought it was a really nice touch. That is fun. It was just a perfect night of hockey in San Jose.

In terms of the games we saw, I was going to start today's show after we went through this opening about the Thornton Ceremony talking about the Oilers because I watched really closely the game they played earlier this week against the Minnesota Wild.

Yeah. And they got some chances along the way. They scored a few goals. They wound up losing. And for me, I just, I've left too many Oilers games this season feeling like, man, and I think you've made this note as well in these shows we've done, the impact that losing some of the young skating ability that they had, this offseason

is really starting to manifest itself in some of these games. They just looked a step slow. It almost looked like they were uncomfortable playing at the pace of the Minnesota Wild were pushing, which would have seemed absolutely outrageous to say in the past. And I was going to start off with this whole sort of ringing the panic meter thing. And then they come out Saturday and night, it's the only late game on an NHL schedule, and they just absolutely wallop the Rangers. And I think they had 20 shots on goal in the first period. They wound up kind of like after the game was out of control, easing back, but they still wind up scoring the six goals. And it just reminded me again that regardless of whatever these individual games happen along the way, I think we need.

And that's why you and I probably are as high on them as we still are. I mean, the betting market has the Edmonton Oilers as pretty clearly still the Stanley Cup favor, despite the fact that they're, what, 17th in the league in point percentage, which seems crazy. Yeah. But it's probably true because just like in that game, I feel like the highest gear they can hit when everything is firing on all cylinders and they're just humming is just intoxicated. There's just nothing like it. No. Their fastball is just, other teams are just holding on for dear life.

Dry Seidel and McDavid are coming in two-on-one. You can just see that the opposing defensemen back and the goalie are just like, oh, I'm going to want. wind up on a highlight reel here. And when they get into that state, it hasn't been that off in the season. But when they do, there's still been a few games like that. They're still as good as they've ever been. The, yeah, in some ways, like my take coming into the season was I'm worried about the Oilers because of their speed.

And in a lot of ways, I don't think, well, sorry, and worried about the Oilers relative to the preposterous level, I felt they hit last season, where I just thought they were the top true talent team in the NHL. and you know Florida was able to defeat them largely because they had home ice in this like Forzling barkov blanket that they could throw over the game in which by the way they weren't winning those minutes they just weren't going to get they weren't going to get blown out of it wasn't they weren't yeah they weren't losing them as badly as most teams as everyone else but but then you go on the road and they were losing those minutes as badly as just about everyone else like they literally had

one way to hold the fort by their fingernails effectively against that oilers attack and i did worry with Holloway and McLeod in particular, Broberg to a lesser extent moving on, that the Oilers had lost some of that sort of like, you know, warp speed gear that I felt made them special. And in some ways, I feel like even though they've struggled in the early going, I'm not victory lapping that take because they haven't looked that slow to me that often. Yeah. You know, I think Minnesota is almost the exception. You know, I really do feel like more than anything, their inability to manufacture goals,

the way that we've seen in the past and the power play have been sort of the flaws in their game. Things I absolutely did not see coming by the way. And by the way, also, things I don't expect to last as this sample expands and as they sort of go through their campaign. They

and I do think we should also really quickly dovetel this to talk a little bit about the Rangers defending. I do. I do. I just add on the Oilers before we get there. Do you have any other notes on the Oilers? Because I had one more thing. Go, go, go. So I do think they've stumbled upon a nice solution here. Obviously, he missed a couple games after that hit from Ryan Reeves,

but Darnal Ners has kind of quietly been quite effective ever since they put him full-time with Brett Kulak. And we've talked in the past on the show about how Kulak has generally a very steadying presence for whoever he plays with. And so I think that's a huge development. And then also it was nice to see it. And he sort of led out this cathartic celebration after, but seeing Pekulzin finally score his first goal after they bumped him up to the top line.

And I don't think that it's necessarily. going to be a long-term fit just because it seems like, and maybe it's premature to say this, but he can generally profiles to me as a guy who's going to do all the things we like and win a lot of battles and just provide a ton of energy, but goals aren't going to happen when he's on the ice, and eventually the coaching

staff is going to be like, all right, well, we're frustrated with this. Let's go back to kind of the tried and true formula, but he's giving them nice minutes up there as well, and it seems like at least McDavid really likes playing with him. That's the key, though. That's the key. Like, what's the difference between Jesse Pooley-Yarvey and Vassili Pot-Coleson?

so far anyway, it seems like 97 and 29. Colson can keep his tongue in his mouth. And they like playing with it. And that's actually an interesting part of this. Like one reason that I've always been really high on Pod Colson and have continually left the light on for him, despite the fact that you're right, he is the ultimate version of guy that works hard and does lots of things where you're watching the TV and you're like, hey, that's a, that's a good, that's a good touch, productive touch. Like that drove the net hard. and there's just no bottom line ever. And that's been the story of his NHL career.

But internally with the Kinex, like, you know, when he was moving from Russia to Vancouver, for example, right? They were like, hey, you need to have all this documentation and like, this is sort of what you do. And as you'd expect, when, you know, team employees reach out to a to a player who English is their second language, although he'd take in English classes and on and on, you know, sometimes it's like pulling teeth like, hey, deadlines this week. Like, where are you? Right. and it was like two days later he like sent them it was like indexed like you know what i mean like this the guy who just wanted it and you know for what it's worth like the the first guy on last guy off works extraordinarily hard on his game just dialed he's a dialed guy and when you think

about mac david and dry sidle and what sort of has defined them i think it's not dissimilar um now i do think he's going to need a lightball moment in terms of simplifying his game and not being hard on himself like those big celebrations when he finally breaks the dam and scores have been a commonplace occurrence for him because he beats himself up so hard and he overthinks, right? And I think that's been a real roadblock for him. Even Ryan McLeod was able to score

like at a good clip playing with TriSidal. You'd think if he gets, if he's able to keep this role even for a month, you'd think the offense has to be there given the opportunities that those two create, especially for like a big bodied guy who plays in straight lines,

is willing to go to the net. But he does need to sort of just get out of his own way, let the work ethic, natural talent, and obviously the unique physical gifts sort of come to the four. Hasn't happened to this point in his career, but how many games in are we? I mean, we're enough of a sample in that I don't, that I think you're right. You've got to leave the door open, certainly. I want to leave the door open for sure.

He's 23. I'm rooting for him. For sure. He's 23. He's got 159 career games, 19 goals. Can you be a 20 goal squirer? Because if he can't in this sort of deployment, with this sort of opportunity, with this quality of linemates, then he's probably a fourth liner.

I believe he can be more than that, but it's kind of time for him to get producing or not. All right, Tom, let's take our first break here, or our only break, I guess we should say. And when we come back, we'll jump right back into it and we'll close out today's show. You're listening to the Hockey-Pedio cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. All right, we're back here in the Hockeypedio cast with Thomas Trans doing our Sunday special. I want to talk a little bit about the Jets because I thought they had an interesting week. now their most recent game on Saturday, the second of a back-to-back in Nashville. Nashville finally was able to put together a nice offensive effort and wound up winning that game.

The reason why I wanted to talk about them was one. Earlier this week, they played a really fun game against the Florida Panthers where it was a prototypical 24 NHL game between two top teams for me, where you look at the shot count, and I think at the end of the day it was like 27 to 23, but then there were just so many high danger chances back and forth, I believe the expected goals top seven. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they even got to eight. The Jets wound up winning that game, six to three, got a little bit of revenge after losing in Florida previously.

And it was really fun to see those two teams play a home and home like that in such close proximity. I thought it was a really fun game. I think this Jets team is also interesting because on last week's show, you and I were talking about the capitals as sort of being this year's quote-unquote PDO team, right? because every pocket they were shooting at the time was going in. And it generated some interesting conversation. In particular, I had CAFs fans saying, all right, no, the Jets are actually this year's PDO team.

And I just don't really disagree with that. And I think it's because you need to peel back a few layers, right? If you look at just the raw shooting percentage for them this season, I believe they are first or second in the league in terms of all strengths. That's significantly driven by the power play, which is first in the league in efficiency this year. And teams can sustain. elevated percentages on the power play.

Yeah, I'm not saying that they will the rest of the season, but I think it's much less concerning as an indicator than it is when you're just scoring everything at 515. And I mean, one thing generally that I think we do have to account for us, we now live in this world where goaltending on average is what, 900 or below now, right? And in that world, we're going to see more of these outlier teams, these teams that get grooving and are able to sustain a specific way of attacking. It's not a possession game. We no longer, like, I now refer to sort of the hockey world we were in with 913, 914, 915,

average save percentage as like the fixed percentages era, where we could be pretty confident that aside from extreme outliers on either side, I'm talking like Travis Mullen or Scott Gomez shooting versus Stephen Stamco, Sydney Crosby or, you know, the twins or Joe Thornton, assessing value the way they did. Aside from the extreme ends on either side, like 85% of the league was going to fall within a relatively narrow band

in terms of shooting efficiency. And I don't think we're there anymore. And I especially don't think we're there on the power play. So, you know, we look at teams at five on five and say, hey, that team can't sustain an 11% shooting clip. And they can't, most likely. But they're more likely to sustain.

stay in it now than they were certainly five, ten years ago. Like, I do think the, the power of the regression that we talk about a team being into is muted somewhat, not gone, but turn the dial on it. It's not as loud. It's not as certain as it was in a world where if you were shooting 11% at five-on-five, like it was going to come fast and it was going to be abrupt because goaltenders were stopping, you know, 91% plus of shots. At 89% at sub-90%, it's just a different world for shooters,

and it's a different world for regression as a concept in this league. Especially for a unit that, much to my delight, if you're holding a drink right now while watching this show or listening to the show, feel free to take a drink, promoted Nikola Ely. You're going to talk about the powerplay this season, and then you just watch the way they function and his ability to detach and move around the zone,

how effortlessly he can just transition the puck into the zone to get them established in their set, and then his playmaking on top of that, they just look so much more imposing that they did last year when they really struggled before a brief sort of reprieve when they acquired Sean Monaghan and used him as a bit of a bumper. That's one thing. The other thing, like you just look at a 5-1-5, they're 15th in shooting percentage, 6th and save percentage. I think that's pretty well within reason. I think a Connor Hellabuck-led team is probably going to wind up in the top 5-1-5, say-percentage, if anything, they have a bit of room to grow in terms of their five-on-five shooting, SporeLogic has them eighth and expected goals generated, sixth

an expected goals allowed. I just think they're a really good team. And I think it brings up an interesting conversation of the value of continuity as well. Right. It's not necessarily as simple as like, just bring back all the same players and you're going to reap the rewards of it because we know that in today's cap world, even with a cap rising, there's certain financial logistics where it becomes tough to keep together really good teams, a bunch of players making a lot of money.

So that's not a reality in terms of this year over year continuity. But if there is an example of that, I would argue that the Jets probably are, right? They had a few sort of departures in terms of players they acquired the deadline last year, but all the key figures are still there. And so it makes sense that when you watch them play, I do see that manifest itself where it's like, it feels like guys know where their partners are going to be. Like they're moving the puck really crisply and efficiently.

they transition it really well. Everyone's always in the right place. And I think that's what you're seeing in terms of these numbers. I just think they're a pretty well-oil machine for the most part. The part of this that I think we need to really drill down on in decisively saying, like, this isn't an argument. Honestly, this isn't an argument where, like, you could reasonably believe either side. If you're arguing the PDO team between the capitals and the Jets, it actually is very clear,

in my opinion. And here's why. go back to 2019-20, the five seasons since then, and look at what teams can sustain at five-on-five in terms of their shooting clip. You'll see the Minnesota Wild on the top, Kareil Kaprizov and Matt Zuccarello doing a ton of work to buoy that on-ice shooting percentage, and you'll find them at like 9.5%. Yeah.

Well, go look at 5-on-5 this season, and you'll find the jets at 9.02%. That's a much more sustainable number than the caps 13.9. If you go look on the power play, same window of time, you'll find that the Edmonton Oilers and the, sorry, the Edmonton Oilers in the Tampa Bay Lightning. So Stamco's and McDavid, do we expect the Winnipeg Jets PowerPlay 1 to be in that area?

Probably not. At least not over five seasons, but over one, you can see them within shooting, shouting distance anyway. And you'll see those numbers are like 17%, 16.5 to 17%. Jets lead the league at 23%. It's just not the same. They're not in the same stratosphere in terms of offensive fortune. And all of that said, I do think that you can sustain higher numbers now, right?

Like, I do think this world has changed in terms of the certainty with which we used to discuss this sort of thing. I think you're going to have to rebrand the entire podcast. Like, PDO's not as powerful as it used to be, I think. Yeah, but now it's a throwback reference. And now you're going to have to be there to get it. Well, and also, I actually think it's more fun from the perspective of analyzing hockey because you can't just... Right, just sort by number and just be like, all right, this is what's going to happen. There's an element to which you actually have to understand what teams are trying to do and how well they're winning in terms of their intent and thoughtfulness with how they attack and how they want to win.

While we're on this topic, especially that Jets-Panthers game that I was referencing, Eelers were just out of his mind, just flying around. And I don't know if we brought this up on the show, but I did want to just quickly point out at the end of last season in the summer, I think one of my final shows of the year, I had Brendan Dillon in Studio, who was one of those players who has departed and went to the New Jersey Devils.

And he was awesome, and I think people really enjoy that show. And then he was just hanging out in the bullpen we have here afterwards. And me and him are just sitting, chatting, and you walk in, and you're wearing the exact same baseball tea that he's wearing,

you're both wearing hats. And you had this moment, Spider-Man, inside, where you're just staring each other down. I also think we both had straight up like olive drab joggers or something. Yeah. We could not have been dressed more alike.

He was so chill. You were unbelievably rattled. You guys shook hands. He's like, hey, I'm Brendan, and you literally went, I know. And then sat down. It was amazing. But then we were sitting chatting

and I'm sure he won't mind me saying this because I was asking him. I was like, man, I've been talking about this all year. It just drives me up the wall. I don't understand Nikola's usage. I don't understand what's going on. And he was like, I'm right there with you. And I'm like, what was the conversation like?

And he's like, yeah, everyone just feels like he should have been playing more. I don't understand why he was being used the way he was. Now, he did note that Mark Shifley just likes playing with Kyle Connor more specifically because there's a level of predictability. And you can see that. Like Eelers is much more a freelancer, especially with the puck. And so it makes sense in terms of routine and habit and placement that that would be the case. But it's awesome to see Eelers playing the way he is once again.

My one final note on the Jets, though, is in that game in Nashville, Dylan Sandberg broke his foot blocking a shot. And I think his play was a big part not to diminish how well Neil Pionk has played this year as a bounceback after really struggling last season. But I think that pair really worked well together. And Sanbury is going to miss some time here now. I think the Jets were already one of those teams that you mentioned that was going to be in the market looking to add a defenseman. And if you look at their left side now beyond Josh Morrissey, it's pretty thin. So I'm curious to see, I don't think Samberg is going to be out like super long term.

But I think they were already going to be exploring, adding a player there. And now I wonder if the urgency to do so increases, especially a player of like significance, as opposed to just kind of like a third line left. Leftee, they can come in and fill in a few minutes here or there. I think they are going to need to sort of address that at some point here. Because we're in the conversation of not just them being good, but being a Stanley Cup contender. Of being really good. Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, they'll have to be mindful of exactly when and how they do it. I mean, you know, the, it's such a fascinating set of considerations. I mean, you even talk about Elyers expiring after this year, right? And then you talk about where the cap is going and we think it might go through the roof. And we know that Winnipeg is one of the smallest markets relative to the other NHL teams. The other 31 member clubs play in larger markets with bigger corporate bases. and it's a totally different sort of set of financial circumstances.

And, you know, you put all that together and sort of shake it up and wonder sort of what it mixes to be. I mean, it mixes to a team that I do think, even though they've been built throughout their tenure in Winnipeg on this like Nashville model, this sustainable model, this we're going to try and make the playoffs every year. In fact, we have to make the playoffs every year, at least be close because, you know, we can't afford multi-year rebuilds. we need to be a team that's in the mix that's interesting, that's engaging the community. This feels like such a unique opportunity to strike now, right? Like if you're going to bring a Stanley Cup to Winnipeg, this might be it.

Like not that, not that I'm, and I'm not being fatalistic about the future of the franchise. I'm just saying, this might be the best shot the city has ever had. And I do think that requires, you know, a level of urgency that on,

on the balance sheet, like maybe should be high. higher than it is for anyone else in the league, period. Yeah, I think that's fair. And I think we have seen them for the most part when they're in this sort of area, be pretty aggressive. Hayes and Stasney. Yeah, and even last year, right, with Tolley and Monaghan.

And they're 17 and 4. So I think it certainly makes it to do so. A team that caught my eye was the Colorado Avalanche this week. Yeah. Because we noted how they're finally getting healthy up front. They were getting a lot of guys back. They had three straight wins on the road in Philly, in Washington, in Florida. They were down in that Washington game.

put together a really awesome third period. That game last night or yesterday midday in Florida was incredibly entertaining. I guess the through line here is that everyone that plays Florida has a really entertaining game because I seem to keep noting that it's like, all right, this game against the Panthers really caught my eye. But that was a really fun one back and forth, high pace, lots of chances. The abs look really good. They got some nice contributions. Drew En played an awesome game.

Oliver Shaldington played by far the best game he's played for them, chipping in with a couple nice offensive plays. And now they have this upcoming schedule here. Yeah, Tampa, versus Vegas, at Dallas, second of a back-to-back, then after that, versus Edmonton. And then I believe they play in Carolina the following week as well. So this is going to be a really fun one to measure. Like they're healthier now. They're getting some wins on the board.

Now where they're at compared to the other top teams. Yeah. So they get through this Oilers Golden Knights, Lightning, Stars, Gauntlet. Then they go on the road and play the hurricanes and the devils in the span of four days. I mean, we're going to learn a lot about this Aves team. They probably got healthy at exactly the right time. Like they probably couldn't have afforded another two weeks of listless hockey. And that's good.

I mean, look, we want to see this Aves team play at the highest stakes time of year. Yeah. Without question, they're too good, they're too fun, and they're too sharp. They're too impossible to contain at the top end of the lineup to not be in the mix. And, you know, I think without this past week, it was going to be potentially, especially given the difficulty of their upcoming schedule here,

dicey for them. I think the thing that frustrates me with them is not any of their own doing. It's a personal note where when I pull up their games, the Sports Now app picks the broadcast for you. And it seems like it disproportionately picks the Aves local broadcast. And I don't want to be too critical just from the perspective of I think it's a really tough job.

And for a lot of these broadcasts in particular, like the local ones, they're supposed to be homers, right? they're rooting for the team. Especially the American ones. I just think in this one, like this altitude broadcast has reached a cartoonish level for me where even in these games this week, I kept noting in the PDO guest discord, but it's like, they say something happened and they're like, oh, Casey Middlestat,

unbelievable hands, look at this play. And then like they're saying that as they're showing a replay of it bouncing off to defenders skating in and Middlestad doesn't even touch it. And they're just like they're wrong every single time. And it just drives me up the wall because you have scintillating players. on this team that are playing the highest level of offensive hockey possible. And this is the soundtrack for it. And it just bugs me as like this is how the way we're documenting it.

So it is what it is. But in terms of my enjoyment of watching their games, that's a limiting one where oftentimes now I'm putting it on mute and then putting another game on another screen and listening to that broadcast as well. So that's a personal. Throwing on the Ducks regional broadcast? Well, I don't know if I'm doing that. A few other notes here before we get out of here.

Yeah. The Calgary Flames. The Apple of our eye this season, after we were so critical at the start of the year, a four-and-o homestand here. Yeah. They beat the Preds. They beat the Islanders. They play a very impressive game against that struggling Rangers defense. And then they beat the Minnesota Wild, you know, without Carol Caprizo, of course.

In a shootout. But what's sticking out to me, though, is, listen, they're 12, 6 and 3 on the year. That's really good. They're hanging around the playoff race. But watching these games, the contributions, they're getting. getting from Conor Zeri, Matt Coronado, and Dustin Wolf in particular. And those two forwards, they're third and six on the team at Ice Time amongst forwards, so they're using them as legitimate top six guys.

Coronado is now playing with Backland, and they're awesome at 5-1-5. Zeri, go watch that Wild Game, is just dancing on the ice. Like, he's creating so much with high-level skill. And that's the most encouraging part to me. And I just think it's become a really fun story, because as we've noted, how many games can you think of that the flames have played this year where there was like low event, uneventful, and not competitive. Honestly, maybe that second game they played in Vancouver recently was one of those.

It's been very few and far between, even in their losses, they've given the other team everything they could handle. And so my hat's off to them because I think their start to the season is not only impressive from a wins-loss perspective, but just the effort and the contributions from young Cornerstone players, you love to see it. the run that Wolf is on right now too. Like he was good earlier in the year too, right?

When they were sort of switching a little more just, I mean Wolf got what, three, three of the starts on this homestand. Yep. And played exceptional hockey in all of them. I mean, he had the shutout. He had the, uh,

really, I mean, Calgary beat up the Rangers pretty good, but he was excellent in that game against a really dangerous, uh, offensive team. And, you know,

I, I'm just really impressed. It feels like he's now beginning to get just like slightly more run. It's still one A, 1B. I'm not expecting them to use this guy as a workhorse or anything, but it seems like he's sort of beginning to cement himself as like the 60% of games guy, the starter. And it feels like his consistency level spiked to over the past two weeks,

which is an exciting story. You don't get to be the plucky overachieving team without, you know, the goaltending being a big part of that storyline. and Calgary's got, you know, not just like a guy who's playing well, but a guy who I think we look at as having the potential to keep playing well, to be a mainstay for them. And I think that's why it's exciting too about Zeri's stepping up, about, you know, some of the Coronado,

about the younger contributions they're getting, because that's the stuff that I think we look at is maybe having more substance or being more signal as to what could come, not just down the stretch this year, but going forward. Another team along these lines for me is the Columbus Blue Jackets. You look at their week. They go into Boston, win 5-1, provide the final nail in the coffin for the Jim Montgomery tenure there.

They play this insane game against Tampa Bay that winds up 7-6 in overtime where Zach Wrenski has five points and looks amazing. And then Saturday, they come back. They had a lay goal for Marchenko. They wind up winning and shootout against the Hurricanes 5 to 4. Ranski plays like 32 and a half minutes in that game. and similar to the flames, I think even more so, because the one thing you have lamented in the past has been losing is one thing,

but losing in such a sort of apathetic way where it's like there's nothing to hold on to, you're not playing fun hockey, you're not letting your young players shine, what is there to be excited about here during all of these losses that are piling up? You can't say that this year. They're around 500.

I'm not expecting them to compete in the metro, certainly. But just that they're playing these fun back-and-forth games now under Dean Emerson, is incredibly encouraging to me. You're seeing the young players really shine through. Ken Johnson came back after his injury and is piling up the points as well. And so to me that's awesome

because this is exactly what I want from a young rebuilding, up-and-coming team and so many this season, I think a story for me really has been that a lot of these teams that are in a similar place have not been able to achieve that. If you just look at some of these bad rebuilding teams, it's been pretty bleak in terms of holding on to hope of like why should we be excited about

this team, why should be tuning in? What is it going to look like by the time they're finally good? At least with the blue jackets, you're starting to see some sort of an outline there now, and I think that is incredibly exciting. What they're doing with Marchenko and Voronkov on the ice, like that, that top of the lineup gear that they've had over the last couple weeks, in particular, I mean, they're skating teams off the ice. And that's always, I think, we talk about this a lot, too. That's always the first thing you look for, right? And I think what's sort of impressive or most exciting about this is right now sort of the really good hockey they're playing in the last couple weeks, the way that they're

controlling games, scoring goals, being fun. In some ways, like, it includes Kent Johnson and Adam Ventilly and company, but in some ways there's sort of another gear to hit, I think, once those guys get to controlling play the way, you know, certainly the Varanco of Marchenko tier is doing over the last couple weeks. That to me is where you get to a point where maybe they can be a spoiler in the Eastern Conference playoff picture and sort of we get to February and we're talking about, have you seen what Fantelli's done the last

two weeks? This Columbus Blue Jack's, you know, team is now a really good story. It does feel like that they've got that in a realistic range of outcomes here now. And that's something we haven't said about Columbus in a long, long time. I've got to fight or suppress all of my intrusive thoughts right now to talk about the penguins because I feel like all of this has been on such a high note and we spend so much time talking about this team. And we'll keep doing it.

In terms of just watching hockey this weekend though, like for Crosby's 600th goal to come in a game where they just get absolutely smoked by this Utah club that came in, unable to generate any offense and they score six goals on them and they're like getting booed off the ice, attendance is dwindling, you're just seeing all these shots of empty seats in that building. they've just completely quit. I mean, 91 goals against in 23 games this year is just obscene. And the games they played this weekend against the Jets and the Utah Hockey Club were like, I don't even want to say the nadir because I just think this is going to continue.

And I think if they ultimately do wind up firing Mike Sullivan, which I'm not sure they want to do because they really like him, it's just going to continue. Like there's no, it's just the reality of the situation right now. But man, it's getting so bleak. And so I want to note them in terms of what's going on this week. I have the whole thing here about Celebrini. I think we should save it for next time.

Sure. Because I think it warrants a full discussion. And also we spent like the first 15 minutes already talking about the sharks. So I feel like it's not necessary to kind of speed rush it here. But I do think what's happening right now, he's only played the eight games so far. But what you're seeing, especially from the perspective of kind of valuing individual contributions from a young player on a bad team versus like the raw numbers that you can pull up and be like, all right, well, he's got a 40. percent expect a goal share and goal share on ice 5-5. He's not winning his minutes. And then you look at a lot of the

stats that are like individually driven and you just watch and play. And there's such an impasse between the two right now that I think is going to work towards a median. But I've really been blown away by the early returns on him. I know that you were incredibly high on him as well heading into the season as a rookie. It was a bit delayed with that injury. But I think once we get in a couple more games here, maybe next week we can revisit it and really do like a full deep dive. The only thing I'd say is there are levels to this that we're still not scratching.

Like the highlights you're seeing still don't include, you know, signature one-time goals from the right flank on the power play. That we still haven't, I think, seen the defensive responsibility really come to the four, in part because, you know, he's not in winning situations, period, right? There's a completeness to his game that I think you're beginning to notice. but I still think there's other sort of, there's other attributes that he's got now that we just haven't had a chance to see yet

because he's only eight games in. And that's why, yeah, buy us some time here because the full celebrating experience, I mean, we're just scratching the surface of what it's going to look like. It's preposterously fun right now. When the Sharks are, they're going to lose a lot of games,

but so far at least, they've been pretty competitive. It's been actually really fun to watch how down, bad every team that loses to them this season gets. Right. And maybe not internally, although I'm sure they're not happy about it, but seeing the way fan bases are like, we just lost to the sharks.

Oh my God, our season is just going down the toilet. Yeah, this isn't like last year. It's like happening four or five times in a row. And you're like, all right, this is a pretty fun storyline. But you know what? You can tell when you watch them and, you know, every shift, you've at least got a Wemberg, you've at least got, you could draw. You've at least got like credible NHL guys who know how to play winning hockey.

I mean, it is a totally different team than the. sort of inept, barely NHL caliber roster we saw play last year and then, you know, the Will Smith and Macklin celebrate any of it all and not to lump them in together because what we're seeing from Macklin is of a different tier. I mean, this guy's not, we're not far off

from talking about him as one of the best game breakers in league. Any stuff to plug them the way out? Read my work at theathletic.com. Tune in to Canucks talk on Sportsnet 650 or on the Sportsnet radio network. All right, that's awesome. I only plug is I did a Nico Hissier film club on the show last week. You can go check that out on the PDOCS YouTube channel. I'll be back on Tuesday. We've got the great Emily Kaplan on, so looking forward to that one. In terms of promoting, looking ahead, what we're excited about this week, I think it's pretty self-explanatory. This Black Friday schedule that we have is incredibly exciting. Basically, games start at 10 a.m. Pacific time, run all the way through. I love matinee hockey so much.

I'm going to drag you into the studio here, and you're not just going to watch the games all day. And so come next Sunday when we reconvene, we're going to have a lot to talk about. And I think a lot of it is going to be primarily revolving around everything we saw on Friday. Yeah, and happy travel to your American listeners. Awesome, buddy.

Well, keep up the great work. This was a really fun one, as always. We'll be back soon. Thank you for listening to the Hockey-Ocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.