The Hockey PDOcast - Logan Stankoven, Competitive Skating, and Net Front Habits

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Darryl Belfry to talk about the impressive start to Logan Stankoven's NHL career, the way he's turned perceived weaknesses into functional strengths on the ice, and how the Stars are able to develop the players they draft by immediately putting them in a position to succeed.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Philippobo. Welcome to the HockeyPedocast. My name is Dimitra Phelpovich, and joining me is my good buddy, Darryl. What's going on, man? I'm excited to get going with another episode here, back in the saddle after a week off. I'm excited. Yeah, this will be a fun one. We took a rare week off last week because of all of our attention here on the PEDAO

guest being devoted to the trade-outactivity, but now that it's in the rearview mirror, we are back to our regularly scheduled programming, and the two of us are going to be doing our new deep dive on a player study. And what that means is today's subject is a unique one in particular, because we've got only eight games worth of tape on this guy to sink our teeth into. But I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, Daryl, because I think as you astutely pointed out, the last time we spoke when we covered Shimon Nemitz,

the first five to ten games of a player's career once they get called up and once they just jump into the action can sometimes provide us with, I think, the best insight into what that player is all about, right? Because they're kind of just going and operating off of pure instinct. And in a fascinating way, it's almost like the neatest distillation of what they want to do as a player, ideally, before the NHL gets a hold of them, before they get overcoach before all the other things coming to play. Once they just start playing, it's almost exactly what they want to ideally be in a perfect world.

And so in this case, I think actually doing the first 10 games or so a player like we are with Logan Stancove in here today is a really fun exercise for us. Yeah, I agree. And I've said it many times. I think there is a school of thought that kind of discounts those fierce few games as though like they just need to get their feet wet and et cetera. And I view it the complete opposite, as I've stated before. But I think what it's interesting when you see a young player like this, it's not just that they are playing on instinct and it gives you the almost like the most pure insight into how they think and how they want to play.

It's also one of the best times in their life. Like the first time they've been called up and they're going to play an extended period of games. Like there is an adrenaline bump that comes with that and an energy that comes with that. And really there's a confidence and a, a real feel on their behalf of a need to establish themselves as who they are. So that's where the purity comes in because even though they may not be totally confident with how they're going to fit in the NHL, they feel like they've been called up for a reason

and that this is their chance. And so all those factors weigh into a real purity as to like, who they really are as a player. And I think it's a really exciting study. Well, and in this case, in particular, with Logan Stancove, and what a first eight games it's been for him where I sent you a bunch of clips, as we always do every week to prepare for this. I'm going to run them once we get into a conversation.

And so you can follow along with us on the YouTube channel if you're not already. But there's about 17 minutes worth of stuff that I think is already sort of instructive about his game and it's so notable to me how all the stuff I read up on him because obviously I'm not necessarily scouting him when he's playing a major junior or even in the AHL just don't have the time to do so since I'm just so preoccupied with what's going on at the NHL level but in keeping tabs on him and sort of familiarizing myself with him during the draft process and then reading every summer about how highly regarded he was as a prospect where he'd be near the top of every list you're seeing on full display all of those things.

that made him a special prospect kind of cemented in our minds when you see him doing those exact things at the NHL level, right? And I think that's what's so exciting where you're sort of seeing him immediately assert himself in that way. And pretty much every opportunity he's been given so far, he's taken full advantage of it. And I think that's highly rewarding as well, where it could have gone either way, right? Sometimes you don't necessarily get that opportunity. And then you're quickly back in the H.O. You're moving down the lineup. And in his case, he's already got this position playing next to another young guy in Wyatt Johnson, and they play a very similar style of game

on lock, essentially moving forward. And I think that's very exciting for people who are following the stars, but also for people who have been high on Logan Stancove in this entire time. Yeah, I think it's a bit of a perfect storm for him as well. I mean, obviously, he's a great player and a great prospect. And when we dig into what really makes him interesting, I think that'll come even more to the forefront. But he's going on a stars team that has the luxury of being

able to play him and really get a good look. So there's kind of two, two times in which is really ideal for a young player. One is when you have an NHL team who is near the top of the standings, they're bringing you in for like they might feel like they need something. And so you're coming in, you're playing with good players right away, and there's a real opportunity that way. Then the other time is when the team that you're going up to, their season is essentially over in terms of playoff pursuit and now it's about looking, giving extended, giving young players an extended period of time to be able to take a look. In the middle ground is the hardest time to come up when you're like we talked about,

you know, the whole situation in New Jersey. Like that's a difficult time. Teams under fire. They're not sure if they're going to make the playoffs. It's touch and go. There's everybody's on high alert. The coach is threatening to get fired. So he is on high alert.

every point matters at different times. And so the margin for a mistake, the tolerance for a mistake, the tolerance for you to play your game, the need to be overcoached at those times. It's really a jam-pack period of time for a young player and a lot of stress and duress that goes into a young player in those circumstances.

So when I say it's a perfect storm for Stankhoven, he kind of comes into one of those two ideal situations. Dallas is obviously one of the best teams in the Western Conference. They have really good players to play with. They have a set style of play that he seems to fit perfectly in. They have good players for him to play with. He plays enough minutes that he can do some things. It's an excellent situation for a young player like Stan Covein to come in and be able to do what he does.

Well, I was curious for your take on this because the stars recently have really become sort of herald or renowned for their ability to draft and develop and then incorporate these young players while they're still on their entry level contracts and at a young age into the lineup and get elite production from them right we've seen them obviously there was the class with jason roberts and amiro hayskin and jay godinger but then even more recently thomas harley wyatt johnston now logan stancove and joining that class and i'm curious for your take on sort of if you see something or if you've heard through the grapevine or if you're familiar

with what that secret sauce is right now. It seems like you're sort of leaning towards it's just a great environment to be dropping these guys into because it can kind of get the most out of their individual skills and they fit within that team concept. But other teams have not had nearly the same

success to. And so particularly with guys who aren't necessarily drafted atop the first round, kind of more so into the late first, early second. And in this case, Stankovin is a great example of that. I'm kind of curious for your take on whether it's something they're doing organizationally well or whether it's kind of a byproduct of everything already being in place for them.

I don't believe that they're doing anything that's overly different than any other team, but their situation lends itself very well to being able to incorporate young prospects into the lineup. And what I think in the NHL, the thing that's been proven to me many, many times is that situation and timing is as important as, anything in player development and the integration of young players. So I'll give you an example. Player like Stancovin, who's going to come into Dallas, who's already a wagon,

they're fully moving along the train. The likelihood of him getting overcoached early and having a lot of stress and pressure putting on him from coaching perspective is a lot less. What happens on those teams, I think, is there's a much more of a player mentorship that is occurring. So they put him not only with a good young player, but then they also give him Jamie Ben, which is not by accident.

Jamie Ben is essentially doing a lot of the heavy lifting as it relates to the coaching of these two young players. His job is the mentorship of it. And he has the luxury of being able to do that because the team is so good. And they're not relying on Stankhoven to come in and help the Dallas Stars win. They are already winning. He's coming in.

They're giving him an extended period of time to give him a good look, play with good players, and he gets mentorship. Mentorship is very different than coaching. Because then when we looked at the situation in New Jersey, when they're in that kind of really awkward stage, there is a lot of coaching going on because there has to be. There's a real need to limit mistakes.

And it's about winning right now. And every mistake matters. So there's a conservative. very conservative approach to the development of your prospect. And there's a lot less patience that would be needed to be able to do that. And then the guys at the bottom, the teams at the bottom that are not winning very often. Like, you know, you take a team like, for example, like Anaheim, who has a lot of young players, but they're near the bottom of the league.

They're not going to make the playoffs again. And so what's the situation with the development of their prospects? Well, now you're not playing with good, you're not playing with enough good players. You're spending a lot of time defending. You're getting beat a lot. You're in a basically like a losing situation. That's also not as ideal a situation for prospect development. So you're like, okay, let's just let the young guys go or we're going to overcoach them.

Where in the Dallas situation, the teams at the upper part of the league, they can take their time. They let Stankovin go in the American League. they let him kind of develop a little bit. Now they bring him up and they put him in an ideal situation. He's not being overcoached. And he has the benefit of mentorship from players who are elite in the league or have been elite in the league. And that is a very different environment. So what it does is it has the potential to extend Stankovins window in his first window in the NHL of staying true to his strengths and not having other things in his mind.

mind. And that, I think, is a secret sauce as it relates to the development of young players. The longer you can keep them instinctual, the more, the easier it is for them to cement that instinctual part of their game into the fabric of your team. The sooner you bring them up and start eliminating the instinctual nature of their game, either by bad results. So the Anaheim example or teams like that where the results are bad. One mistake, it's in the back of your net. Another mistake, it's in the back of your net. So that inherently makes you more conservative.

Or you get in that pressure cooker situation where you're brought up and it's very intense. And now it's a conservative by nature. And there's a knocking of that instinct out of you. And players who overcome in those situations, they have just a real different mental fortitude to be able to do it. Stankhoven doesn't have to tap.

tap into that quite yet because he has the luxury of being able to have an extended window for which he can be he can be instinctual and the coaching comes from mentorship so it's not being leaned on he's getting you know Jamie Ben after a after a after a shift might say hey like that area of the ice you're going to want to be careful this is the type of play you want to make in that area of the ice so it's much more gentle in its approach and so that extends his window as opposed to the harshness of like do not turn the puck over at that period and that spot or there's consequences to those types of mistakes. I think that's an under talked about key development aspect is how to extend the window

of what makes this player great. That's why I think it's a perfect storm for Stancovin. That makes a lot of sense. I think the working theory I have in terms of what they're doing well organizationally from a process perspective in relation to the draft in particular in terms of like getting these guys and then obviously putting them in that environment to succeed is there not unnecessarily closing doors with biases and what I mean by that is he falls to the 47th pick in 2021 right and it was a complicated season because it was a COVID shortened year I think the WHL had like 24

games that year stankovin only played in six club games himself so I get that and there were like limited viewings and all of that but it doesn't take a genius to figure out why he fell, right? Like you look at him and he's 5'8 and I think that's probably pretty generous because we know that these sites tend to inflate those totals for players. You watch him play and he certainly like his motor is really good and we're going to talk a lot about that and his competitiveness, but his actual sort of breakaway kind of straight line speed or kind of separation speed isn't necessarily elite particularly for

a player at that size. And I know there's organizations that look at that and have a hard and fast rule as a philosophy of if you don't have one of those tools, if you're not either big or you're not fast in a traditional sense, we're not very interested in you. We're going to look for one of those and we're going to try to bring this guy in and then mold him to our liking in the development process. And I just know that's the way teams operate. And what the stars do to their credit is I think they're just looking for good hockey players. And they're going to figure that out after the fact. And so it's interesting. It's kind of ironic because I think viewing Stankov in that way and

kind of knocking them for a lack of size or for a lack of skating ability is so ironic because I think those two, he actually leverages in a weird way into a strength because, and we're going to talk all about it, about how he uses his, his, his sort of his frame and his stature actually to his advantage. And similarly, how he skates so aggressively to create stuff. And so I just can't believe that that was used against him in those viewings, because when you watch him play right now, I would actually view those two things as kind of like unique traits that he uses to excel in the NHL. Well, when you're, when you're perennially a good team, which Dallas has been for quite a long time, and you're drafting later on in the first round and then also then in the latter half of each of the rounds or you're picking up, you know, draft picks later.

I think that the luxury in that, if there is a luxury, is you don't have the pressure to hit right away. The lower that you are and the higher that you're drafting, the more you, there's a pressure to hit right away. When I say hit, like your guy needs to play inside a two or three years. He's got to make it. He's got to be an impact player.

So you're going to be less inclined to go against more like traditional variables. Like if he can't create great separation and be a phenomenal skater, then that could be precluding. If he doesn't have the size. because what size represents is a physical maturity that would suggest that you could withstand the rigors of the National Hockey League. Speed, in the separation stuff, means that you could at least defend in the NHL because you have the speed to do it. Take a guy like Stankover, well, he's undersized. You're going to worry about him.

His physical translation might not be as quick. and then he doesn't have the blistering speed between the two blue lines. So if he can't produce offensively, then what else can he do? So you don't have those. So Dallas is taking a look and teams like that that are perennially near the top, they just take these guys because they don't necessarily need that. They can see if this guy has some unique skill, which he obviously does. And they have the luxury of also being able to bring them up.

they don't have any pressure of having him come in and have to light the world on fire right away. They can let him take his time. They can evaluate him at the pro level in the American hockey league. They can leave him there and let him go and then just monitor them. And then when the time is right, they can bring them up. It's like you can let that fruit ripen more naturally because you have the luxury of time because your roster is good enough as it is. You don't need him to come in and be a great point.

player. Some of these other organizations, they have, they have pressure to have this guy come in either right away or inside the first couple of years. So he needs to be ready to go. So you're heads, your bets on these other assets. When like I said before, so I personally went through a transformation in terms of my viewpoint of what a great skater actually is. And I had it in my mind for many years, like if you weren't Sir Guy Federoff or Paul coffee type skater that you weren't, like that was what I was measuring you against. And it just isn't that way. There's guys who have like great quickness in small area. They're excellent skaters inside contact. They have an ability to leverage their hockey sense to be able to move prior to the play. So they close

space prior to when they need to close space so when they actually need to, they're closer to the situation. And then they then have less distance to go. And so skating in a traditional sense can also be precluding to some of these other things. So the better than the longer, the skater that you are and the faster you are potentially through the neutral zone. So a guy can take three, three and a half steps between the blue lines.

It's going through there like a blur. but then you put him in small area, it can be problematic. He doesn't have the ability to be able to move his feet in small areas. So I've really expanded my vision and version of what a great skater is. And I have more time for players like a Stankovin, who in my mind is a great skater at what he needs to do to be a great skater. and he's in my estimation answered the questions that you would need to ask as it relates to his ability defensively to be able to win pucks back and track pucks and back check and do all those things that are difficult to do in the NHL when you're dealing with people who are really quick

he has been able to answer those questions so when you see players like that and you study players like that you start to get an appreciation well like maybe like there is such a thing as being a bad skater there is such a thing of that where it is completely precluding but then there is also a situation where there isn't really like one model of a great skater there are other other other faces to skating that we should be acknowledging and if players can fit inside of those

boxes like this kid's Ankoven can, then you could say, well, he is a great skater at the things that are going to be important for him to be successful, which is I think now much more of how I personally am grading skating. Can he be great in the great skating in what he needs to do? And can he find a way to mask or answer the questions of the between the blue line speed and can the team play fast when he's on the ice and if so how so and if that's the case and he answers those questions then we don't need

to worry about his skating. He doesn't need to be Turkey federal. No, no and I think that's a good example because I think what Stancovin shows is the importance of differentiating between I think like aesthetics and functionality right? Like I think we're kind of preoccupied especially in the scouting

community of it looking a certain way because we know that we've seen that be successful and we also have that idea in our back of our mind of what it's supposed to look like. But then when you watch Stankov and play, it's clear that it doesn't matter because he still accomplishes everything he needs to,

as you're describing. And I think that's a good kind of entryway into talking about all these unique skills he has, because I think what stands out to me above all else, and he's already got five goals and eight games, I think he's going to score a lot of goals at NHL level, the way he did at every previous level he's played at. But the thing that stands out above all else to me

when I watch him play is just that unflinching competitiveness. And I think you have to be that way, in general to play in the NHL and be successful and have a long career, but particularly if you're going to be a bit undersized and not conventionally beautiful skater. And in his case, and maybe this is why I'm starting with this,

because I think I've discovered that I have a bias for this type of player, it's a motor that just never stops. Like if you watch him play, he's just relentlessly, he's badgering whoever has the puck to try to get him, turn it over, at least kind of force them into a tough spot on the ice.

He is constantly moving off the puck and trying to get open, providing support, weaving in and out of traffic. He's always doing something, and I've sort of affectionately described him as annoying. He's a menace. He must be a terror to play against because you watch him, and he's just constantly trying to lift players sticks, poking and prodding at him, always doing something.

And it's really fun to watch. It's very annoying to play against, and I think that's a good starting point for us to talk about what he's doing right now because that's sort of, I guess, the nucleus or kind of the central point of what everything branches out into. One of the things that impresses me about Stankhoven is his next play mentality, which is, I think, what you're alluding to. And there's two parts to that.

One is he's thinking ahead. So he's always looking for work and anticipating what might happen next. And that shows up in both his movement and the ways in which he plays. And that's where you see this relentlessness. That's part of it. The other part of it is he plays with a high level of expectation. He expects to get the puck at a high frequency. He's played at obviously at a high level at the levels that he's played at.

He's been an offensive producer. He gets the puck all the time. And when he came to the NHL, he has the same mentality. He's expecting to get the puck. And he knows the different ways in which he gets it. So I think it's a combination of playing with high level of expectation. Like he expects to get the puck, expects to make plays with it. And then he also has a next play mentality.

he knows where he wants to go next. The other part that I really like about him is he doesn't really overhandle a puck. He gets it and he moves it, which is a reflection of his next play mentality. A lot of times he's just, he moves into space, the space that he wants to go into

where he feels like that's the next best spot to be in and where the play is going to be going next. As he's moving there, he's already reading where the play is going to be supposed to go next. And now he's all just waiting for the puck. Once he gets it, he moves it, and he's already gone to the next spot. One of the things that really impresses me is he passes with his feet moving a lot,

which is a reflection that he knows where he wants to go next. And it's a reflection of this next play mentality. So when he gets it, he gets it and moves it and he's already moving because he's already going to the next place to get it back. And I think those two things in combination are really exciting and speak to the instinctual nature of the way in which he's playing. He's playing based on what he thinks is going to happen next, which is instinctual rather than another way to look at it is when a player is coming up and just trying not to get scored on. They are thinking about where they need to go next is the best defensive spot to make sure that they don't get scored on.

So they're in more of a preventative mindset where Stankhoven is in a creation mindset. He's trying to figure out where to go next. where's the next best place to be to be able to make the next spot. And his motor of what you're talking about is less about energy, I think, and more about mentality. It's more about him trying to get the puck back again or trying to keep the puck alive. And because of that, he wins loose pucks. I've been really impressed with his F2 tracking. So times in which he's in front of the net, the play looks like it's going to break out.

and he's stripping guys from behind. But when you really watch it, that's not a reactionary play. He's already moving. He's already anticipating the puck was going to turn. And now he's already there. And then he uses his stick and his instincts of how to steal a puck and he's already turning it back on offense. So the motor part is driven by a need to have a next play mentality

and the expectation that he's going to be a decision maker in the game. And I think that that's what I see as it relates to that motor, which is, I think, very different than an energy guy. And I think we have to differentiate those two things. Well, I think that works really well to your point then about this being the perfect environment for him, right? Because the stars are a team that plays with a lot of motion. They play with they move the puck very quickly and try to constantly attack. And I think he fits in really well with that. And I think to your point about the F2 tracking, part of that constant movement and explain mentality and constantly thinking ahead to what's going to happen and then proactively

anticipating as opposed to sort of trying to keep up is it allows him not only to I think kind of get lost in the offensive zone and part of that is because honestly his size it's funny sometimes I tweeted this the other day but he kind of looks like he's lost in the tree sometimes when he's in the inner slot because there's a bunch of big defenders around him and then I imagine with that motion and that size he's probably tougher to keep tabs on for for a defender because he's just never stationary, but also that movement then puts them in good positions to provide support, right? You mentioned the backtracking and sort of the stick lifts and steals that way. I've also seen him countless times work is way up naturally and then be the high man in

the offensive zone and provide support there and keep the puck in or just be the last man back defensively in the defensive zone. He's coming back deep and he's sort of working the middle lane and providing an outlet for his defenders so they can break out quickly. and we talked in the Thomas Harley episode about how important that is for their transition game. So he's doing all of this stuff that's really important. And I don't think it's an accident that his 5-1-5 impacts are already through the roof

because he's kind of stringing together all these little things that we know have an advantageous impact for the way a team's underlying offensive and defensive profile fits. Yeah, I also like just combining ideas here, I would term him as a competitive skater. And so a lot of his skating deficiencies, the asset aspects of it are in the competitiveness, meaning he has outstanding contact balance. He initiates contact. He understands leverage.

He's very difficult to move. He will spin on you. So as you're trying to lean on him at the net, he'll roll and spin. He's got very soft hip. So when you're a competitive skater like he is, one of the best parts about him in my mind is the way in which he works the back wall. That's been one of my favorite parts about him. And you might say, well, you know, he doesn't get pinned back there.

He's always in motion. You know, he's able to escape. And you might say, well, that's because he's, you know, he never stops. His feet keep moving. He's got that motor. In my mind, it's more than that. It's the way in which he uses space. He preserves space between him and the wall.

He preserves particularly his outside skates. When he turns, his outside skate doesn't hit. He's able to hit the wall. and he's able to move. He's got great small space hands where he can keep the puck on the wall and switch from one side to the other. He has an excellent read of when he's going to take contact.

He can pivot. He's got soft shoulders. He's got soft hips where he's rolling. He's very difficult to handle. When he's in front of the net, when he's trying to take contact in front of the net, people are trying to move him. He will spin, roll,

he'll what I call turn down and get underneath you. So he is a very competitive. skater. A lot of his best movement is in contact. His best skating is in contact. He initiates contact. He's extremely physical. He's able to make good plays in high traffic situations. He's low to the ground. And this is what you were talking about where you're saying many of like many of the things that he does particularly well as it relates to his skating and the way in which he works in in tight spaces. His stature might actually be. asset. Well, it is because it's hard to hit someone, hit down on somebody. He's really wide.

He's obviously got great balance and great lower body strength. So this guy here is, is a lot to handle in areas where you would think he would be minimized because of his size. That's exactly what I was hitting at. And you can tell that we're on the same wavelength here. We've been doing these every week this season because I have it in my notes. He's built like a fire hydrant. And he uses that low center of gravity to his advantage to establish inside position on larger defenders. And then I think that relative proximity then to the ice where he's actually just physically closer to the puck allows him then to be the first to it and to win those battles. And then he combines that with that movement we mentioned. And it's just a nightmare for a larger defenseman who's maybe a bit slower than him to try to keep up with him to get a body on him to actually do stuff that he would ideally like to do.

And I think that's in part tying into then this next concept is something we've spoken about quite a bit this season so far. It's the changing demands of what a net front player is like in 2024 and what that looks like at the NHL, right? And him and Wyatt Johnson have both been two of the best. And now obviously Johnson's been doing it for a longer period of time since the start of last year. Stankovins only eight games. So you don't want to do too much with small samples like this. But he's already profiling similar to Johnston as one of the better, more efficient interior players in the the game. And you can see that in that movement, in how difficult he is to wrangle for defenders,

how he makes himself available. He kind of incorporates a lot of the concepts we've talked about for what you have to do to succeed in the net front. And he does that exceedingly well routinely. He's pretty much like living in that inner slot area. And it's really fun to watch because not only does it look funny because he's just so much smaller than everyone around him, but it also reinforces that idea that it's changed so much. And if you're not willing to accept that, kind of falling behind and a lot of teams are at this point. Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I, one of the notes that I have on him is all roads lead to the net.

Like once he's in the, once he's in the offensive zone, he will land at the net. He will find his way there. One thing with Johnson, I studied Johnson earlier in the season. One of the things that stood out with me for him was he, the number of times he actually stops at the net, which as a habit, like off the rush, you know, we've all been, Those of us who've coached or anybody who's watched people play and you see them like turn. They go on in a rush and then they'll turn away or peel off the net. These guys don't do that.

They stop at the net and they hang out at the net and all roads end up at the net. So if you're watching both Johnson and Staincoven, you're going to see these guys at the net a disproportionate number of time because that's all roads for them lead to the thing, lead to the net. Now the interesting part about Stankovin, and when I was talking about, about his skating on the wall. And when he passes, he passes with his feet moving because he's already going to the next spot. Often he's going interior. So a guy like, guys like Johnson and Stankov, Johnson's not that big either. He's not really a big player. But they spend a lot of time inside.

And what we call inside, which is inside the hash marks, inside the dots, inside the hash. the net area. They are constantly in that area. And Stancoven scores a lot there. He's got great balance, but it's more than that. It's timing. It's also frequency.

He's there a lot. He's coming there a lot. Plus, when you think about a player who doesn't have, this is a very interesting point, I think, as it relates to this type of player. Because he goes to the net so often is on the inside a lot, he's essentially shortening the rink geographically. And geometrically.

because he's in the middle of the ice. So he's halfway to anywhere he needs to go in order to track or wind pucks back, which reduces the pressure on his actual skating because he's a very quick skater. His first couple steps are very fast, although he doesn't cover a lot of ground. He's very quick. But when you only have half the distance to go, it's a lot easier to cover that space.

So part of why he's able to manage his skating in the way it is, one, he's very quick, but two, he manages the geometry of the rank really well because he's constantly going to the net, so he's halfway to everywhere. And I think that's a major deal. So not only is he, not only is he at the net, he's a menace there, and he's very good, but the times in which the puck doesn't land there and now it's, you know, going to the corner or it's starting to break out, and his F2 tracks are so good because he's only two or three steps to where he needs to go.

And I think that's a really interesting point as it relates to why a guy like this would be able to function so well. His frequency is through the roof. Literally every time he's in the offensive zone, he's going to land at the net, which is a fascinating and awesome trait for any player to have regardless of your stature. Yeah, he's got phenomenal habits in that sense where he's stopping at the net, he's cutting across, he is going around the net and then working his way back to the back post. and then kind of replicating that motion. Like if they have an extended 40 second offensive zone shift,

he's going to leave skate marks essentially in a circle around the net because he's going to have covered every single area of that. And I was joking to someone that him and Wyatt Johnson should consider putting down like a down payment on a two bedroom in the home plate area of the American Airlines Center because they're spending that much time there in these games. And it's beautiful because it goes completely against convention of this sort of net front guy who's dominating in these tight areas at that size. and that's how he does it.

And then you look, and both him and Wyatt Johnson are top 20 in the league in expected goals generated per hour of play, high danger chances. And that's because that's where they're doing the majority of their damage, right? And I think that's very exciting. And that really ties the general concept of this conversation of how he fits within the team concept of the stars ties into that because that's something as a team that they clearly have prioritized for a few years now and do remarkably well is constantly working the puck in there, whether it's with tips or deflections or actual shots.

and he's just given them another sort of layer or weapon to accomplish that. So it makes sense that him and Johnson are really good at that together, especially with Ben, and it's given them another outlet for scoring that way. So, yeah, his habits in that regard are just really fun to watch. And it's great hearing you talk about kind of how you see that as well, and then how he's accomplishing it. Well, not only that, but he's also playing on a Dallas Stars team

who is extremely good offensively. They have an outstanding half-court offensive game. they have puck moving defensemen who can transport the puck. They spend a disproportionate number of time in the offensive zone with now guys who like to end up at the net. So the frequency of event is so much higher because of the way the team plays, the success of the team, the amount of time they're spending the offensive zone, it gives him many more cracks at it because the team, the group that's with him will support his style of play and the way in which he wants to play. and then his habits.

And then his habits also support and dovetail into the advantages that are afforded by the team. So it really works. Now you put Stan Khoven, bring him up and put him on Chicago or put him on San Jose right now. I mean, these are teams that do not spend a lot of time in the offensive zone. His actual talent would have to be used in defensive zone exits. that's where you would see him excel. You would be like, okay, he's not spending any time in the offensive zone or a very little amount of time.

You wouldn't even, if he played in some of those teams, you might not even know how good he is at getting to the net because it just isn't the frequency of event just isn't enough. So he would have to showcase his ability on the defensive wall where you're like, wow, he gets great body position, he can handle rim pucks, he can make plays to the weak side D. He, you know, he can solve problems on his own. He's got great patience.

He's got great puck control. He's hard to knock over. He can handle a pinch. Okay, well, that's where he would have to do it there. But in Dallas, he can do it in the offensive zone and around the net. And that's why we see it. And that's why it's a perfect storm for him because his habits dovetail into what Dallas is already very good at. And that's why he's come in on my mind and been able to,

really have a high level of success right away because the frequency of event is so high because of the team he's playing on. Yeah, it's remarkable. I mean, he's played up 105, 5, 5 minutes so far. Shots on goals 70 to 35 for Dallas. High danger chances 28 to 17 goals, 7 to 3. And him and Y Johnson have just given them an entirely different look. Now, I want to talk to you a little bit about his shot and his scoring.

And it speaks to the sort of the breadth of his skills and what he's already put on tape that we're 40 minutes into this and we're finally getting into what I think was his best attribute as a prospect, right, where you looked at his goal scoring totals and they were through the roof. But I think part of that is certainly he's got an explosive risk. And I want to talk to you a little bit about the mechanics and kind of how quickly he can get it off with limited wind up and how that works in these high danger areas. But he's also just, I think we had to start by laying the foundation of how he's getting there because it's clear that a lot of his success comes from just stacking together high danger puck

touches in these tight areas and then executing off of them, right? So he's already done that so far. Let's talk a little bit about his shooting and kind of how he scores as many goals as he does because he's got five and eight so far. I think he's going to be very comfortably a 30 goal score, if not more moving forward. That's probably a conservative estimate, but that's just how good he is. Yeah, he's outstanding. What I think his, the interesting part with him is he does use a stick that's

proportionate to his stature. So his stick is also short. The puck is relatively close to his feet. And he uses a lot of leverage where he's already on top of the puck. So his stick is sometimes younger, smaller players will use a longer stick. But the puck is now extended off their body. So they have to bring the puck under their body to be able to shoot it. For him, his stick is already there.

So the difference. So for example, the difference between him and Bedard, for example. Bedard is a brilliant shooter. But Badaard uses a disproportionately long stick for a player his size. And he is continually using that to pull the puck underneath him to gain the leverage. And then he uses the technology of the stick to be able to fire the puck as well as he does. This guy, the puck is already there. It's already under his body.

Now, he doesn't have the same range of motion in terms of how far he pulls the puck or drag the puck. You don't see him really do that a tremendous. amount. The reason for that and the way he gets away with that is because he attacks on angles so well. When you see his route that he takes to shoot, he's often on a diagonal or an angle. So he uses his skating or his footwork and the angles to change the angle, but not necessarily like pulling the puck with his hands, tremendous distance. So what does that do? Well, it allows him to use a much more of like a quick release where the puck is already under the puck. underneath his body.

He doesn't need to do a tremendous amount to get rid of it. And you'll see him like it doesn't even look like he's going to shoot it. He doesn't really have a lot of a tilt. And then all of a sudden it's gone. I think that he's able to do that because of the leverage he's able to put on the stick because the stick is and the puck is right there around his feet. And I think that's a big deal. The other thing that he's extremely good at is managing space.

And I think a lot of the reason why he uses these angles and diagonals in such a high level is he's able to preserve that shooting space, which is a function of guys a necessary skill for those who make a living around the net. You can't score around the net at a high level if you don't know how to manage space because you can't be just pushing Pucks back into the goalie. You have to learn how to move it slightly, move it back, pull it back, you know, and be able to find these like angles. and he's managed to then pull that back into the 20, 25 foot range,

use now angles and diagonals and then be able to still be able to have a shot that's dangerous, it's hard to handle, it comes off his stick quickly, but he's able to change the angles and get goalies off the angle because of the way in which he attacks the net. He's not going at it. He finds these little angles. I think that's a really cool part of his shooting. Well, is there a better example of all of these traits than the goal he scored against Colorado where he, I think he retrieves like a dump in along the wall.

He eludes a check and makes a guy I miss, works at backs, which decides essentially getting it to Wya Johnson. And then his first instinct is to go right to the net. He posts up there, Johnson hits him with a quick little bump pass. And in a split second, it's off his stick and it's top corner. And those are the elements you're talking about there where it is to his advantage because, a lot of his shots. Like he's going to get his rush opportunities. We know the stars certainly attack there as well,

but most of his work will be done in these areas where he's just not going to be afforded a lot of time and space because there's going to be bodies. He's going to be closer to goalie. And so he's going to have to utilize that leverage to get the puck up quickly from in tight. And he does that really well. And so we've seen that already so far. I imagine a lot of his goals moving forward are going to come from that same area of the ice in that same exact way.

And so that's very exciting. Well, we might also see a trajectory similar to what we saw with Brad Marchon, where Brad Marchon, when he first started and came up with Boston, was primarily scoring most of his goals from right around the net area. And then as years went on, he started to develop much more of a distance shooting where he could score and beat you clean from 25 feet out, 25 to 27 feet out. He was able to start doing that, which is necessary for any player.

You can't just score one way. You've got to find different ways. This is what I think Stan Kovin has is he has this ability to be able to find shots both off the pass and carrying pucks where he can still change the angle, make it difficult from those areas, while also being, like to your term, a menace around the net and is a way to. a score. So he's already shown some capacity of being able to score in different ways, which is why I would support your assertion that he's probably 30 goals because he can score

it different ways. He certainly can. And I should say when we're talking about the stuff he's already brought to the table, he's already drawn four penalties so far in his eight games. And in that game against the sharks where he brought them back from a six three deficit in the third, he drew two on like back to back shifts. And it's that concept you're talking about. of the competitive skating, right? Where if you're just constantly moving your feet and you're involved, guys are just going to get frustrated. They're going to take you down out of necessity.

And I think that's going to be another skill or tool that he's going to have in his bag as well. And the stars have a very good top unit power play in particular. So that's another asset for them moving forward. Any other stuff on Stan Covey here before we sign out? I mean, there's just so much already in eight games to really appreciate with this game. But it's exciting because also I think this is the stuff that we're going to keep seeing moving forward. I think it is kind of laying the blueprint for what's to come. And so there's going to be a lot of time for us to appreciate it.

But while we're still here, is there any other stank overnotes you have? Yeah. Well, the one thing that he's shown in the offensive zone that I've really appreciated is he's very good in the off wing corner. So coming out of the off wing corner, climbing up the wall and being able to make plays from that side, he has a high number or high percentage of times in which he gets the puck there. and a lot of his playmaking comes from that side. It's a very natural position because when you're climbing up the wall, his shoulder is open because he's on his forehand is on the wall.

So he's not coming up on his backhand, which closes his shoulder. He's on his forehand. And he understands that the advantages and the ability to make a play here. And he's able to take you up the wall. He can spin on you to climb to come down on the net. he can use the weak side D. He has a really strong playmaking ability from that side. And you can see that he knows it and he spends a lot of time in the offensive zone in that corner.

And I think that that will be something to watch as his game continues to mature. I think that area of the ice will become a very dangerous offensive place for the stars as I think he'll be able to create a high number of high danger chances that he doesn't have to score on because i do think his playmaking is very strong and this is one of the key tenants of his playmaking is his ability in this area of the ice well i'm excited to keep watching him play i think he's going to be not only a fun player for us but also a frustrating one for opponents so good luck to everyone that has to deal with him i imagine there's going to be a lot of frustrating nights in the future for teams that have to play the stars. Daryl, this was a blast. It was really fun to talk to you about staying

over and kind of nerd out about that. We'll be back with you next week, pick another player and deep dive them. My only plug is if you aren't watching along with us on YouTube, hop on the Hockeypedo cast YouTube channel and you can see all the clips. And I also post the accompanying mixtapes for all these players. So kind of some additional supplementary material for you. Hit the five-star button wherever you're listening. And that's all for today. We'll be back tomorrow with a new Kevin Woodley episode. So thanks for listening to the Hockeypedia broadcast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.