The Hockey PDOcast - Looking Ahead To This Year's Stanley Cup Final

Episode Date: May 30, 2026

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Jesse Granger to dig into how the Golden Knights swept the Avalanche in the Western Conference Final, and look ahead to this year's Stanley Cup Final against the Hurricanes. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Lessing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitry Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey-Pedio cast. My name is Demetri Philpovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Jesse Granger. Jesse, what's going on, man? Not much. Just getting ready for a cup final.

It's been busy. And I will be flying to Raleigh in the morning. So just getting ready for it. Yeah, we had you on, what, two weeks ago now, ahead of the West Final to preview that. And we focused on. the Vegas perspective certainly heading in because you cover the team. You're so familiar with them.

And I'd already done a lot of VAB's content in the lead up to that series. I really enjoyed that chat with you. I think if you go back and listen to it, it was pretty spot on in terms of some of the stuff. We identified, obviously, neither of us expected that result. And I certainly did not expect to be having you back on this soon, previewing a Stanley Cup final the way we are today. But that's the NHO playoffs for you.

So I want to start off talking about that West Final a little bit and reflecting on it, even though it feels like it ended forever ago now and kind of use some of the lessons from that to look ahead to the Stanley Cup final and talk about the series against the hurricanes. Where do you want to start the conversation on the West final because I've certainly been focusing a lot on what we saw from Vegas' defense,

how they limited the Aves rush game and a lot of their scoring chances in particular and frustrated them along the way. There were certainly some injuries that factored into that on call. But I think a lot of the credit should go to what Vegas did in terms of limiting their opportunities and really just making life help for them offensively. Yeah, I think we can get into the specifics.

But I'd like to start with just saying I think that there is a fundamental difference in the way the Golden Knights mental state is compared to the Colorado Avalanche. And I know that it's tough to read into body language. facial expressions and stuff like that. But I can tell you this, that I think the difference in that series, more than anything else, more than any of the strategic stuff, more than any of the way Vegas slowed down Colorado, I think more of, I think the reason the Vegas Golden Knights swept that series are in the Stanley Cup final is because they truly believe that they are never out of a game.

And when things go wrong for the Golden Knights, they don't panic. They don't. There's no sense of, of. panic in their game. They don't change the way they play and they feel like there's an inevitability to them that they feel like we are going to win this game regardless.

Whereas when Colorado would get down, I can feel it on their bench. I can feel there is a difference in, they just think that when things go wrong, it's like, here we go again. They're going wrong for us. And I really do believe that the way that those two teams feel about themselves,

the way that they approach the game. Maybe it's Vegas has one more playoff rounds than Colorado. And I know that there's that stat that goes around that the avalanche have not won a series that they trailed at in any point. And I think that that kind of drives home the point, whereas the Golden Knights, they fall behind all the time in games and in series. And it doesn't seem to bother them. I think that there is a big part of that that played into this series. And it's tough to analyze things like that because they're intangibles and you can't like point to exact like concrete evidence. but I really did feel throughout that series that every time the Golden Knights were trailing,

it felt like, well, they're probably going to get back into this at some point. I don't know if they're going to win the game, but they are going to get back into this. Whereas the moment Vegas would take the lead, you'd never had that feeling with the avalanche. As talented as they are, as skilled and high octane as that team is, it just did not feel that way to me. Well, the Golden Knights certainly had a wealth of experience to deal with in terms of dealing with adversity and playing from behind as they did throughout the regular season. I think there is something to that. I think they kind of go hand in hand, though, right?

Because especially when the Golden Knights would go up and, you know, they get that goal pretty early in game four in the clincher. Obviously, game three was a bit of different story coming back from their own three nothing deficit, as you described. But there did feel like the avenues, the avalanche had available to them in terms of how, okay, we're down by a goal or two, how are we going to score here and create offense in a way that's going to get us back into it? Those felt like they just dried up so much.

it was, you know, McKinnon being very stationary towards the end of game three, Makara coming back for the last two of bobbling pucks and not being quite as lethal as he typically is. And then guys like Natchez and Nelson just either being snake-bitten on the chances Nelson had or Natchez just being totally taken out of his element and really having an unfortunate series. They just, I wasn't even sure what the blueprint was going to be like, all right, how are we going to actually create a chance here that's going to give us a chance to score a goal? And that's why I kind of wanted to focus it on, on Vegas' defense, especially because I think that's going to be a big storyline heading into

Stanley Cup final with the hurricane's offense looking more efficient and dangerous, but a lot of questions still yet to be answered in terms of how they're going to be able to break through that defensive zone structure. And then especially in light of the last time this team won a cup, that really was their bread and butter, right? For all the Jonathan Marshallsill's goal and the cons might he won and how good Jack Eichol was as a playmaker and distributor in that series, it was the series that really got Aden Hill paid and set up for the rest of his life. And they just really kind of boxed really skilled teams that they faced along the way into this compromising situation that they eventually wound up tapping out of. And so it feels like that's kind of happened similarly here where they go through these young fast teams, right?

I picked Utah to beat them in round one. There was a time in that series where I thought that looked pretty smart. Like they had them on the rope, certainly. First three or four games really, like the speed edge was very evident on tape. And then eventually the Golden Knights figured out a way to recalibrate for it and sort of sink their claws into them and dictate the terms of the series. Same thing happened in Anaheim around game three or four. And then this Az series, it was just the fast-tracked version of that where game one, I think, was a bit of an outlier compared to the other three, in terms of the chances the ads are generating. Part of that was Vegas being up three-nothing in the third period.

kind of just holding on all the way through the finish line. But games two on, really, it felt like it was a Golden Night series in terms of them being very comfortable, what they were giving up, and just punishing the abs seemingly at every opportunity they got. Yeah, for sure. This team relies heavily on its defense. And they, it's interesting because they still play the same system that they played under Cassidy, the same system that they played when they won the cup in 2023.

And it's a layered zone defense where they just place so much emphasis on. keeping pucks out of the slot. And they kind of restrict their, their defenders from like, do not chase the puck to the outsides. We will let them hold it as much as they'd like out there. Now, here's where things get interesting.

Because I think that like Tortorella hasn't changed systems, but he has changed emphasis on certain things. And I spoke to Mark Stone after that game four. And that was Tortorella said it was their best game they've played. All the players said it was the best game they've played. That was especially checking wise, the best game this team has played in the entire season. And I talked to Stone after and I'm like,

what did you like most about the checking? And what he brought up was something interesting because he said, I like how aggressive we were on the perimeter and specifically at the blue line. We were killing plays earlier. We were being more aggressive rather than kind of sitting back passively and letting them possess it. And I think that that's super important because Carolina is as dominant of a possession team as there is in the NHL.

And if you sit in a little tight zone around your net and let them pass the puck around the outside, they will do that for 50 of the 60 minutes of a hockey game. And now, will they ever get it to the middle? Maybe not. But they might not need to. If you get enough shots on goal, eventually something will go off somebody's butt and into the net. So I think that the fact that Tortorella is having them be a little more aggressive on the outsides of the zone, being a little more looking to kill plays off earlier rather than just kind of sitting back and letting them

possess it out there, it's going to be very interesting to see how that works against Carolina, who likes to possess the puck around the boards, maybe more than any team in the league. So it does seem like a little bit of a shift. It's a little different from what we've seen over the last few years. It worked against Colorado. It seems like that's going to have to work against Carolina, otherwise you're going to spend the entire game in your zone. Yeah, it's crazy.

I was reflecting on this. So Colorado generated 40% of their even strength chances in that game one. And then with each passing game, you could sort of see this very linear trend where scoring chances in game two were a dead draw in 1919. And five of those were abs chances four on four early in the second period of that game. And they missed the net on a bunch of them. Game three, Vegas to control 1914, even string chances. And then game four, which was quite a stamp on the series, 14 to nine. And it was one of the more lifeless offensive performances I can remember from a team down three nothing.

you think of like the desperation level and motivation to get back in the series. And there just wasn't really any of that. They held them to like 1.5 expected goals worth of offense or something. And what they did so well beyond the defensive zone structure and there's an element of that and the boxing out and, you know, cutting off passing lanes and stuff. I thought they did a remarkable job dealing with Colorado speed. Like that was a big question for me heading in because the abs play at such a high pace, especially off those like quick neutral zone re-entries, right? Like it's the first chance they get, you clear it, you're tired, and then they come right back in with a three on two and punish you that way.

And there was just none of that in this series. I know you kind of highlighted this concept of staying above the puck, and what an important thing that would be for the Golden Knights to have success. And they did a great job of that, having guys back. There were, I can't really recall very many odd man rushes in this series. I mean, there was the, the Taves sort of break away where Hannifin takes the penalty, and then Landis Gogh Berries it at the start of game three, and maybe a couple sort of three on twos potentially,

but not that like just litany of two on ones that we typically see in Avs games. And that's an interesting thing to consider because this Hurricanes team, as we've talked about in the show throughout the year, is much more rush-based since adding Nikolai Ehlers, and they're going to try to attack there. And I would once again say they have a speed edge

from top to bottom against the Golden Knights, but whether they're actually able to get into those sets is an entirely different question because teams that I thought would have success to, so previously just had that dry up on them in these series against the Golden Knights. Yeah, for sure. You make a great point. And yeah, Carolina probably is the faster skating team, but they might not be faster than any opponent. Like Utah was a very fast team. Anaheim can skate. Colorado is arguably the fastest team in the league. And Vegas has just

done such a good job. Like you said, staying above the puck. That was what I thought was the key going in. They absolutely did it to perfection. And it's the, here's the thing is like, Vegas isn't the fastest skating team, but they have good skaters at the right positions. Like Jack Eichol is Tortorella called in the best 200 foot player in hockey. I don't know if I'm quite there, but he's one of them. And he's certainly in that conversation. And he did a phenomenal job against Nathan McKinnon. And he won't have as tough of a matchup in Carolina.

Like Carolina doesn't have a Nathan McKinnan. So that might unlock a little bit more of Eichl's offense if he's not that worried about playing the defensive side of things. And then you've got like William. Carlson, phenomenal skater. He's always in the right position. He's always on the right side of the puck. He gets pieces of guys going through the neutral zone to slow them down before they can kind of get rolling. Brad Howden does the same thing. Mitch Marner's on the wing, but he does something similar to where he's just such a good skater. He angles guys into the coverage. Like they, okay, I'll let you skate through the neutral zone, but I'm, and I'm not going to check you or steal the puck from you, but I'm just going to angle you to where I want you to go to where our coverage and our offensive gaps are so good that by the time you get there, you've just run out of space and you've got nowhere to go with it. The way Vegas's forwards in particular, like their defensemen deserve some credit, but to me, the forwards and their defensive ability is really what makes this Golden Knights team so tough to play against. Like Hanifin and Theodore and Rasmus are all good skaters and they

have good sticks. Like in transition, you're not going to dance them very often. But if they didn't have the forwards doing their job as well as they were, I think that there are some some vulnerability to this blue line. Like they're not as good as they were when they had Petrangelo and Alec Martinez back there. Like I think the forwards defensive ability is really what makes this Vegas team so tough to play against. And it's going to be an interesting matchup with Carolina. I think Carolina has more guys you have to worry about maybe, but not the high end like elite

guys that Colorado had. Yeah, I think that's a great point. Like their forecheck, you know, generated their share of chances as the series went along. But I thought its biggest impact was just sort of preventing Avesdi from. having clean retrievals and being able to break the puck up the ice relatively unopposed. Like there were so few times where a defenseman was able to go tape to tape to a forward, flying through the neutral zone and building up speed along the way. And they were either like having bodies in the way or kind of just tipping those pucks or outright stealing them.

And I thought where you could really see an accumulation of that was for someone like Sam Malinsky, who I've been such a fan of this season. And they clearly made a point of like being very physical with him. I think they registered 14 hits on them through the first two games alone. And then it kind of culminated with that game three where he starts sort of hearing the footsteps and making mistakes in his own with the puck trying to get it up the wall quickly and rush plays. And they were just sitting all over that. And I thought that was a huge part of this. I'm not sure if it would be a very lucrative story for you because especially this time of year, you're not getting a lot of state secrets.

And generally it's going to be cliches. I imagine in terms of what the actual answer to this is. but I am fascinated by this idea that the Golden Knights seem to be getting a bigger and bigger foot hold in these series as the games go along, like the back half of them. Now this West Final only took four games and that was fast-tracked, but even in game where it feels like the third periods against the abs were their best ones throughout the series other than game one,

and whether that's an accumulation of all the work you're putting in in the early stages and it kind of manifesting itself in some of those mistakes or I don't know what the explanation is, but it's been a pretty clear trend the way these games and series have progressed. Yeah, no doubt. And we've spoken with the players about it, basically all playoffs,

because in the Utah series, it was maybe the most obvious was where, like Utah, like Logan Cooley and Dylan Gunther looked like they were having their postseason breakouts to the world. And then after three games of that series, they were basically invisible.

Like, they did nothing. It wasn't just that the goal stopped happening. They just were completely, like, useless with the puck on the ice. And so we have had these conversations. And like they, again, it's kind of cliches. They like to attribute it to their physicality. Like the Golden Knights, we talk so much about how these teams are faster.

Well, the Golden Knights are usually stronger. Like the Golden Knights are usually the stronger team in these matchups. It's they have some big bodies who aren't afraid to throw their weight around. Ivan Barbashev obviously leads the way. And he is an absolute truck of a human being. Like I was tweeting this the other night. Like, I don't know what he's made of, but it's not what the other humans are made of. He doesn't throw these huge booming hits.

He just is so solid in his base. And it's partially like he's a good skater for how big he is. It's partially just because he's a thick guy. But like you watch guys try to hit him and they just go bouncing off the other direction. Barbashev doesn't even see them coming. Like he's not even bracing for it. And he flattens guys by accident because he's such a solid dude. And like he's not the only one like Brett Howden is a big guy who isn't afraid to throw his body around on the forecheck.

Mark Stone knows how to live. lean on guys. Tomash Hurdle. Jack Eichol is a strong guy when he wants to be like this team, Keegan Colissar, this team leans on teams. And I think that that's part of it. It's certainly not all of it, but I do think that part of it is that Vegas is looking at this kind of like a boxer with the body shots. Like, look, these shots to your ribs and your gut aren't going to hurt. They're not going to score me points the way a big hook to your face does. But by the time we get to the eighth round, you're going to be pretty sick of this and you're not going to want to be in the ring anymore. And I think that Vegas kind of does that in a hockey sense of they're not hitting you with these massive hits that are getting a ton of replays shown.

Like they're not that team, but they just lean on you. And you're constantly being leaned on in the corners. And every time you're trying to go through the neutral zone, there's a little bump that throws you off your rhythm. And it makes you have to, you're not just gliding in. You're now having to regain your speed. And I think that that can take its toll over time. And I think it's a small part of why they've been able to take over these series as they go on. Yeah, I think where you could see the kind of physical manifestation of that in real time is, I mean, part of it was, as I've joked, like, you watch the way the abs played offensively in this series.

And there was a level of like admitting defeat in like they became the hurricane's offense from the past couple of post seasons where at a certain point it just started being like low to high, get it to your defenseman, try to shoot it and hope something good happens. And that's not the way they played at all throughout the regular season where they were so deliberate and thoughtful about how they. move the puck in zone. And then even when a chance would pop up, and I can think of so many Brock Nelson examples, it would feel like a rush shot, trying to cut a tooth in, and just missing the net and not even testing the goalie.

Now, what's interesting about that is, I'd argue this Hurricanes team is going to be completely undeterred. In that regard, for better or for worse, like they're going to keep taking their same shots and kind of going through the motions the same way, regardless of if it gets blocked or if it initially gets impeded, And I'm going to be curious to see kind of how they fight through that because I think the Golden Knights have certainly done that.

The three really talented teams so far, want to talk a little Mitch Marner because I feel like we need to do a follow-up after our conversation coming out of that Duck series where you and I were, of course, you know, glowing and praising him for his performance. But we kind of had a bit of a caveat saying it's one thing to rip apart this Duck's defense, which is clearly still got a lot of work to do over the next coming seasons. and then doing against this AFS team that's just filled with big, rangy, competitive forwards that are going to try to take time and space away and out muscle them and make some of those opportunities harder for him with less open ice in front of them. And he wasn't necessarily as productive as he was in the previous series, but I'd argue he was just as dangerous from a process perspective.

He far and away led this series in chance setups, was making some beautiful passes, winds up with the three primary assists and a couple highlights. real ones at that, but I thought he was impressive if there were any questions heading into that series. I thought they were answered for the most part, and he's right now the cons my favorite,

I think deservedly so. Yeah, I totally agree. He was really good. He obviously didn't score a goal in that series, but like you said, he had a couple assists that were just beauties, the one specifically to Dorofiev, where he like curled around behind the net. And it was taking contact. Like, I think that's part of

that's been part of the narrative and part of the knock on him is when the checking gets tight and you don't have space and you've got guys leaning on you, can you still make those types of plays? And he has shown pretty unequivocally that he can make those plays. And he's feeling it right now. He's driving that line. It's a very good line for the Golden Knights.

I think it was probably their best line in that series. Even though, like I said, Marner didn't score. Howden was scoring. Carlson, he got on the board. And Marner's also a big part of their power play. Like, that's going to be an interesting matchup in the same. Cup finalist can because Vegas has dominated the special teams in all three series. And Marner quarterbacking the power play.

Like he's, I think he's been their best point quarterback that they've ever had on this team, which is crazy because they've had Alex Petrangelo back there, Shea Theodore back there. They have had great defensemen that are power play guys that just do not do it as well as Mitch Marner does. He moves the puck so quickly and so deliberately. Like there's no dusting off the puck every time it comes back to him. He knows where he's going with it before he gets it.

and it just kind of opens up the structure of the penalty kill a little because he moves it so fast and isn't thinking so much up there. So, yeah, I mean, he's great everywhere for this team. He's obviously great on the penalty kill. Not only is he, does he have a good defensive stick, but he's so fast and so aggressive when he does get a turnover that he has, I mean, three shorthanded assists already in the playoffs. And that's just a threat that the other team has got in the back of their head every time he's out there. He and Howden are out there when you're on the power play is if we do turn the puck over. here we're going to have to play some defense going back. So yeah, I mean, Marner's been everything for

this team. He's been their best skaters so far in the playoffs. It feels like on the power plays, I'm not sure how much of this is a conscious effort to sort of at least plant the seed of doubt that he actually will be a shot threat. But it feels like whenever they win a draw to start off a power play, he like immediately steps into a shot to at least be like, hey, I'm going to do this if you don't challenge me. And then as soon as that happens, he's really just looking to go high from the point down low. And he had a couple where he would just pass it essentially through the defensive zone structure down a hurdle in front of the net

or Stone for one of those quick bump plays. And they set up some nice stuff off that. And then really was unlucky not to have a couple assists in that game four, I thought, like that power play sequence with the scene passes to Dorothea, where Black would just made some remarkable saves to keep the abs in it. So I thought he was great. And especially in combination with William Carlson, who led this series and scoring chances by my count and continues to dominate at 5-on-5.

It was interesting to see the way Tortorella kind of dibed up the minutes against McKinnon as well, right? I know that's something you and I discussed in terms of how they'd approach that. It didn't seem like they were particularly desperate one way or another to make sure one unit was out there. I think like the Ico line and then the Carlson-Marner combo essentially split at 50-50. And there were some doubt minutes even in there for defensive zone draws. But that'll be a fun thing to consider for the Stanley Cup final because, you know, so far clearly the Stankoven line has been the most dangerous unit for the hurricanes. I think people still view it.

And if you look at the depth chart, it's still Aho, Svetnikov and Jarvis. And they've had a lot of chances in our dangerous. So kind of how that battle atop the lineup goes will be interesting to track. I don't think there's going to be a lot of, you know, very specific or disciplined line matching. I imagine both teams are going to be comfortable, just kind of rolling their lines and seeing how it shakes out.

But I guess we'll see with the series starting in Carolina and them getting to dictate that early on. Yeah. And I think what's going to be. really interesting is how the bottom six is matched up with each other. Because in that Colorado series, I thought Colorado would have the advantage in the bottom six. Like they, their, their bottom six players scored more. They're more like impactful players now. They may not be like doubt is clearly a defensive specialist. But I, I expected Colorado's bottom six to have the

advantage and they didn't. Like Vegas has outplayed them. Nick Wall was a non-factor in that series. And, and meanwhile, Vegas is like Tomas Hurtle finally gave. going on the third line that they they were definitely the better bottom six when you look on paper at carolina i mean jordan stall nikolai elers jordan martin hook that's an incredible third line william carriet on the fourth line who Vegas fans know really well the best fourth line they've ever had was anchored by william carey so i think on paper carolina's bottom six looks a little more potent it's going to be interesting to see if it actually plays out that way or if Vegas bottom six can kind of drag them into a like neutral if Vegas can neutralize that

that bottom six, I think that their top six likes their chances about playing Carolina. So it's going to be really interesting to see if their depth can overplay what you expect on paper the way they did against Colorado. Yeah, just based on kind of trends of like zone deployment and who these teams are sending out for either offensive or defensive zone draws, I imagine we'll see a lot of Eichl's line because they get a lot of the offensive zone draws against that stall combination with Martin Rook and Eilers because that's how Rod Brindamor's been using them in zone. And then probably quite a bit of Marner and Carlson against the Yahoo unit.

And that's why, you know, if it sets up that way, especially in the first two games at home, if we get a lot of the Stankovin line, which has been so devastating if I won five this postseason against that bottom six, that's potentially an exploitable area for Carolina. But we'll see on that. You mentioned hurdle there. I do have to, you know, take the L here on the last time we spoke.

I made a passing joke about how it had been. many, many moons since we last saw him score a vintage rush goal the way he did early in his career. Then sure enough, one of the defining moments of the West Final is that game winner in the third where he dances around Sam Malinsky and then scores one on the backhand. And I was like, you know what? Fair play, Tamash. You got me this time. And it was cool to see him after all the goal scoring struggles he's had down the stretch,

kind of come to life. And really, I thought he had a great series. I mean, the underlying metrics were phenomenal for him. And them winning those bottom six minutes was a big reason. why Vegas was able to hang in it and ultimately win that series the way they did. Yeah, he's been awesome. And as journalists, we are not allowed to root for guys. But if you're in the locker room talking to Tomash Hurtle every day, it's a hard guy not to root for.

Like, he is such a good guy. He keeps like he's professional. He's in a good mood. He hadn't scored in 29 games. He was as frustrated as a hockey player can possibly be, but he wouldn't take it out on us. He would still talk and chat every day. it was good just on a personal level to watch Tomash Hurdle finally find his rhythm and play well. And part of that is, I mean, it doesn't hurt to have Mark Stone on your third line, right?

Like that that's a guy that comes into the series, comes back into the series and makes an immediate impact. And it gives that third line a completely different feel when Stone is down there. It's, it's because he's, I mean, he's just amazing. And those two are just so good with the puck, like possession-wise. Like, you're not going to get it off of them. And Colton Sizzins is kind of. playing in the middle of that line. He's just sort of the F1 four checker. He can skate well enough. And we were talking to Tortorelli yesterday. And he brought up how much he thought it helped

moving hurdle to the wing because it takes that responsibility off of his plate. Like as the center, you've always got to be the third guy back to prevent odd man rushes. And hurdle's not the fastest skater. He wasn't the fastest skater before he had the knee surgeries. He certainly isn't now. And being a winger now kind of frees him up to play deeper. the offensive zone, maybe take a little more risks on going for pinches and four checks, possess the puck below the goal line a little more, and you're not worried about having to be that first guy back. So I think that while he is obviously a natural center, I think that the move to the wing specifically has helped him be a little, play with a little more freedom and

a little more aggression in the offensive zone. Yeah, you know, reflecting on the path here respectively for both teams, I think you could certainly argue that their next opponent in the Stanley Cup final is going to be the deepest team they face so far. You know, maybe you would have said previous to the West Final that the halves were the deepest team based on what we saw from in the first two rounds. But as we talked about that offense dried up for them very quickly, you know, for Vegas, like the 5-1-5 goal scoring distribution in this West Final, I think it was the top line scored the two goals to win game two.

The second line had two goals. The third line at three and the fourth line at two. And it was a pretty much even split across the board. and then they got a couple power play goals and empty netters on top of that. And then for Carolina, that whole line has not really been scoring 5-1-5, but the Stankovin line has and they're getting fourth-line goals as well. And so it's a pretty interesting combination, I think, of teams that are going to pose different challenges to each other in this series because, you know, the Golden Knights have had to play all these fast teams and Carolina is going to be another one of them,

but there's going to be fewer shifts you can take off or kind of win as handily as Vegas has. and then for Carolina, I think it's the same thing where they just played three teams who were pretty top heavy for the most part. And now, as I said, Vegas can reliably expect, especially if it's hurdle and stone on the third line, for them to create some good looks. Corey Snyder's tweeted this,

but the percentage of puck touches right now for Mark Stone since he came back that are turning into immediate scoring chances is outrageous. Like, he's never touching the puck, but when he does, it's an immediate scoring chance. And so that line is going to be very difficult to deal with as well. So, yeah, that kind of speaks

to the line matching potentially, but just how that shakes out is going to be a fascinating to watch. Yeah, I totally agree with you that it's, they're kind of, to me, it's almost like for the Golden Knights perspective, it's like they're, they're meeting something closer to themselves. Like I felt like the Utah series, it was kind of a matchup of opposites. It's like the fast, young, inexperienced team against the wily old vets. And then Anaheim was just kind of a continuation of that. Colorado was obviously more veteran laden, but they were a similar style of team. Now, Carolina is, they do want to play with more transition, but they are a good checking team. They rely on their checking ability so much. To me, this is a very, very different matchup for Vegas.

I had to write a couple days ago before Carolina had closed it out, like, who should Vegas be rooting for Montreal or Carolina? And I said Montreal, just based on the fact that it's a similar team. Like, I feel like Montreal is a similar team to the three that they have faced already, whereas Carolina is more of a, you're kind of facing a mirror image of yourself. to some extent with the depth, with the skill on the blue line, with the ability to check and pressure and forecheck. Like I think Carolina is going to pressure the Golden Knights more than any team they've faced so far and how they handle that, breaking it out of their zone. Because if you go back to when the Golden Knights were struggling,

a lot of it was inability to handle the forecheck. And they would turn the puck over trying to exit their own zone. None of the teams so far have really even like made them answer that question. so far in the playoffs. So Carolina certainly is going to pressure them more and make them make quicker decisions breaking the puck out of the zone. It's going to be interesting to see how they handle it. Yeah, that Cadmouse game is going to be a huge battleground.

I don't want to step too much on the toes of the big preview we're doing in a couple days with Jack Hahn, but it's certainly relevant to this discussion. I'll be watching to see how Vegas handles that because, you know, it leads to ultimately the huge Markstone breakaway goal in game four, which felt like a real death blow to the abs in that series. That kind of willingness for these Golden Knights defensemen to make the simple play at times, like beyond Shay Theater,

there isn't necessarily a ton of glitz and glamour with what they're trying to do on the breakouts. They're willing to kind of punt it into the neutral zone and allow their forwards to go and win those pucks and create from there. And then even if they're retrieving it, it's a lot of quick, simple passes with support from forwards. And then asking Martin, Ikel, Barbashev,

so on and so forth to do the heavy lifting and carry it out. And they're equipped well enough, at least at this point, to handle that. Whereas you think that he's final, the hurricanes just absolutely teed off on the forecheck against these Habs defensemen. Every time a guy like Gully would go back to play the puck, they'd just be all over them. It would be an immediate two-minute shift in the offensive zone with four or five chances mixed in. And so if Vegas is able to handle that, I think, and keep it more so in the neutral zone as opposed to being stuck in their own zone, that's going to be huge.

certainly easier said than done because just the relentless pressure Carolina comes with has a similar feel of accumulation over the course of a game and series to what we talked about with Vegas. Yeah, for sure. And it'll be interesting to see if it's one of those things we've talked a lot about how Vegas gets stronger as the series goes on. I remember having a conversation with Bruce Cassidy a couple years ago where he said that like maybe part of the reason Carolina hasn't gotten over the hump is the fact that in the regular season, it's just one of 82. so you don't like prepare for the pressure that they bring. And they pressure you so much more than any team in the league that oftentimes,

especially if you're like a West Coast team that's just there for one game. And it's like they hit you in the mouth with the pressure. And then by the end of the game, you kind of start to get used to it. But at that point, it's too late. And you're, you've already fallen behind and you lose. And they dominate in the regular season. And then maybe in within a seven game playoff series, you start to adjust to the speed at which you've got to make plays because they're on top of you all the time.

Maybe that's part of the reason Carolina hasn't been as dominant in the playoffs as they have been in the regular season for years and years. Obviously, this is the first time they've reached this point in a long time. So maybe this team is better at it. But it's something interesting to watch to see if maybe Carolina is all over Vegas the first game or two. Is that something that the Golden Knights can adjust to and get better as a series goes on and maybe start to turn things in their favor? It's like you're looking at my show notes here because I'm not one for predictions. Typically, I'd rather see how the games play out and then react accordingly. but I do wonder if particularly in game one

we'll see the hurricanes come out red hot especially with how these final ended and I imagine them feeling very good about themselves and it taking a bit of time for the Golden Knights to kind of recalibrate to that and then how they adjust to it the way they have in these series I guess the other thing that I'll be watching for is who's kind of able to stick to their game

and not relent to what the other team is doing particularly for Caroline offensively right because as we've talked about there probably will be significant offense, off his zone possession time advantage for them the way it was in the West Final for the Avs. And their sort of willingness to fall for that trap, I guess, because Vegas is going to encourage them to cycle the puck on the outside

and take those point shots and just kind of sit in the lanes and block that stuff before it ever gets to the net. In the past, Carolina's been a very willing participant in that. I think they've been much better about it this season and this postseason. And if they're able to actually pass up some of those easy looks to get it into more high danger areas, then that's going to be huge for them actually breaking through offensively, but this is going to be an entirely different test than what they've gone up against so far in doing so.

So yeah, I feel like it's kind of cliched or overly simple, but in terms of who's able to get into the game they prefer most and force the other team to get out of their own comfort zone, is probably going to determine how the Stanley Cup final goes. Yeah, it's interesting. Carolina, if you go back to when Vegas was struggling and they had the worst safe percentage like in the entire NHL, And I remember at the time, like Cassidy would bring it up almost after every game that they're screening their own goalie too often. Like we've talked about this zone defense that kind of it, it puts these defensemen and these forwards real close to the crease. And the downside of that is often, even if you box the guy out, sometimes you're going to screen your own goalie.

And it was happening a ton early in the season. And like it wasn't like people want to point it. Oh, Aiden Hill struggled. Okay, well, they put Aden Hill in there. he had an 890. They put Akira Schmidt in. He had an 890. They put Carl Lindbaum in.

He had an 890. They bring Carter Hart in. And at that time, before he got hurt, early in the year when they were playing that way, Carter Hart also had like an 880 save percentage. To me, you put four different goalies in there and they all struggle. It tells me that the team in front of them is doing something wrong. And it was a lot of we're getting in our own way. And these shots from the point are finding their way into the net.

Now you fast forward to this. playoff run and Carter Hart's safe percentages obviously through the roof. It's like a 920 something right now. And I can't remember the last time a puck went in from the point on a screenshot that was just a clean shot from the point where the goalie never saw it and it finds the back in the net. It almost has not happened at all in these playoffs. And so if you were to go back to when they were struggling and they were giving up all these goals from the point and they were screened themselves, you would say, man, the Carolina Hurricanes are an absolute nightmare matchup for that team. Like they are going to eat you alive. And they've completely shored that up. So I think this series is going to

test how far have they really come in that aspect because against Colorado, they were so good at not letting shots through. Like there was a quote from Molinsky, I think after game three, where it was like, wow, it's in their heads. It felt like it was in the Colorado shooter's heads, how tough it was to get a puck through because they just know how to get into the shooting lanes. There is a layered zone where, yeah, you can you can drag the puck around the guy at the point. you think you've opened up a lane, but there's just another guy waiting in that lane, and you're just firing it into his shin pads. So Vegas has come a long way in that department,

but if you're looking for a crack in this team to try to exploit, we have seen them struggle with that in the past this season with this same group of players. So it'll be interesting to see if Carolina can find ways to get some of those ugly goals from the point where the goal he doesn't see it that we haven't seen teams be able to score against Vegas in these playoffs. As I mentioned, Marner is currently the leader in the Kahn Smythe market. And then it's just a collection of hurricanes players with the odds seemingly reflecting. Like, who knows?

Let's see how this series goes. Pretty Anderson, certainly the top of it with his same percentage and the three shutouts. He has so far. And then it's pretty much just entirely that Stankov and Hall, Blakeline. And then you get into Jack Eichel. I talked about this with Corey Schneider on Friday show, but Kianjee Miller is probably my best value pick at plus 8,000. Now, I don't think the voters are going to necessarily look past the fact that he has zero goals.

And we know how like goal scoring in particular in the Stanley Cup final is going to be weighted very heavily. But he's probably been their most important players so far. Like he leads the team at Ice Time. They're up 16 to 3 this postseason with him on the Ice 5 on 5. And so that would be an interesting one for me. But yeah, it probably will be either Martyr or Freddie Anders. depending on who wins this matchup. Like part of the argument for Freddie Anderson,

regardless of whether you think he's been, you know, as good as his numbers have been so far, is that the scoring has been so evenly distributed. And even with that Stankovin line, it's really kind of tough to split out one between Hall, Blake and Stankov in terms of who's driving the success and who deserves the credit for it.

If you could give it to a full line, they would probably just win it if Carolina wins this series. But ultimately in terms of stripping it out, being like this one individual is going to get all the glory and the other guys are going to be running her ups. It kind of splits the votes in a way. And so the easiest one is to be like, well, we've given up whatever, 13 goals. And in 13 games 5-1-5 this postseason, Freddie Anderson is going to get the credit for that even though I think we all acknowledge that the team defense is driving a lot of it. Have you thought it all about how these two teams were constructed? Because on the one hand,

it's on very different ways, right? For the Golden Knights, they've been. the preeminent NHL organization of going out and trading futures for ready-made stars and then keeping them and building around them and always looking to upgrade ruthlessly so, whereas the hurricanes have been very diligent about kind of maintaining flexibility, managing their assets, keeping futures and keeping prospects. Now they've made some trades to, you know, first the rant in one and then they go out and acquire Kandre Miller, you sign Nikla Euler. So they've certainly added a lot of talent via the trade and free agency market as well. But it's one team that's kind of homegrown where I think they have six meaningful skaters on their team that they drafted

and developed in Carolina. And then for Vegas, it's only what, Dorofiav and Korzak, basically from the same draft are the only two guys still on this team that were actually originally golden nights picks. And so it's two different processes, but I'd argue very similar in execution where they've been very aggressive and diligent about sticking with whatever their plan was and kind of plowing ahead. And that's why they've gotten to this point, I think, as opposed to zigzagging and constantly changing the plan and, you know, doing one thing and then something that kind of counteracts it. Like they've picked a lane and they've stuck in it as firmly as any other teams in the league. Yeah, for sure. I mean, Vegas obviously has a different approach than most teams.

But I think that they're also, I think you have to kind of. You hear coaches say, like, you have to coach the team you're given. You have to use your strengths to your advantages. And I think Vegas realized quickly that now you have to be winning. If you're not winning, it doesn't matter what city you're in, doesn't matter your state tax situation. But you have to be winning. But I think the Golden Knights realize that, okay, we are viewed around the league as a winning

team. We, the weather all winter when hockey players have to be in the city that they're playing is spectacular. You can golf all year. you have no state income tax. Let's use that to our advantage. And I think that they're more willing to take risks on pending UFAs. You look at all these guys that they've traded for.

It's Mark Stone was going to be a UFA in Ottawa. And Vegas said, you know what? We will trade for him and we'll bank on. We're going to be able to sign them to a long-term deal. The same thing happened with Rasmus Anderson. The same thing happened with Noah Hanifin. Jack Eichol, a little difference. situation. They traded for them with the contract already, but it's like they just bet on players that

maybe aren't happy with where they're at right now and maybe they want to test free agency. They're willing to say, we're going to trade for them and we'll figure it out. And we're, we believe in our ability to sign that player long term. Now you look at Carolina, they did that with Miko Renton and it didn't work. He got there and was like, I don't want to sign here long term. And then they ended up having to flip that trade. And now it worked out because Stankovin's been awesome. But like the point I'm trying to make is I don't think every like people see what the Golden Knights are doing and it's like, oh, copycat league, is everybody in the league going to do that? I don't think you can. I don't think it's, I don't think it's brilliance by the front office that

figured out they can make all these trades. I think every GM in the league would probably like to trade for these players. But they just can't be confident that we're going to trade. If the Winnipeg Jets tomorrow decided we're trading for every pending UFA and we'll just re-sign them, I don't think it would work as well as it has for Vegas. So I think that teams are taking, like you have to take advantage of the strengths that your team organization market have. And I think Vegas has realized that while we're in this championship window, where players view us as if I go there, I'm going to have a chance to win. And there are a lot of perks to living in Las Vegas. Let's just take big swings on players. And we'll just bet that they're going to want to resign here. And so far, they've been right with pretty much

all of them. Yeah, the Golden Knights have undoubtedly had a much bigger risk profile. Now, maybe you could argue the risk isn't as big as it might seem on the surface because I think they felt pretty confident and they're going to retain all those guys. And history has borne that out. The one risky move, the Golden Knights made was the Rantinan trade. And when they realized it wasn't going to work, like they, you know, I think correctly pulled a shoot and not only added stank oven, but they got the first that they used to get Keondra Miller.

They got Taylor Hall in that trade as well. So, you know, they certainly made lemonade out of those lemons. But, yeah, I mean, it's, I was looking at this as well. Like Carolina's roster right now is, about $88 million in salary this season and the Golden Knights is pushing 100 comparatively. And then the other is the Hurricanes have all these first round picks still coming, whereas the Golden Knights have certainly used theirs via the trade route. And this is probably more of an offseason conversation,

but what these teams are going to look like moving forward heading into next season, because I think the Golden Knights are going to have some big personnel decisions to make, some uncomfortable ones in terms of who they're going to trade to clear a room to potentially keep Dorafia or Rasmus Anderson and they've shown that they're going to be comfortable doing that whereas the hurricanes other than

Eccas RFA status like every single skater is under contract for them heading into next season and they'll probably look to add another good player offensively but for the most part it'll probably be the same crew heading into next season. Yeah it for sure is going to be a big off season for Vegas and obviously what happens in these next

four to seven games is going to help shape what they do. But yeah, I mean, they've, Rasmus Anderson and Dorfia have both need contracts. If you look at the contracts that they've got signed through next year, they already don't have enough cap space to sign those two, just those two. And that wouldn't even give you the full roster. Like they're still going to need to add like two or three other skaters just to fill out a full like 20 man roster. So yeah, they are almost certainly going to have to trade players to clear cap space in order to sign those guys because I'd be surprised if either of them leave. I think they're probably going to both get contracts and be with Vegas if I had to guess,

which means that someone like Aden Hill is there's a reason he's on Chris Johnston, his first big big trade board, Aden Hill's up on there. I don't know who else. All I got to say is good luck with that. I think it'd be easier than you think. Really? I do think that they would have to wait until his signing bonus is paid because he has a big signing bonus coming. Now, this is, here's what I think the Golden Knights have going for them

if they were to try to move Aiden Hill's contract. Most of the money has been paid, and yet the cap hit is still big. And in today's NHL, where the cap keeps going up, and there are owners out there who are desperate to reach the floor without actually paying any money, Aden Hill has $6. whatever million a year on the cap hit, but you don't have to actually pay that as the owner. so you can get to the cap floor without actually paying the cap floor.

And I think that there would be a handful of owners that would see that contract and say, sign me up. Plus, there's the fact that if you're the GM of that team, who obviously doesn't care about anything but winning. I think Aiden Hill is a good goalie still. He had a bad year. He got hurt. He never really was able to catch up.

I think Aidan Hill's still a good goalie. So it's not like you're trading for a complete albatross of a contract. It's just a little bit. It is overvalued for sure. But it's not like ridiculous. I think Aiden Hill is still a starting goalie in the NHL. And with the cap going up, I think his $6 million cap hit is reasonable enough that he can be an asset for your team. So I don't think if they wanted to move that deal, I think they'll be able to.

The one concern would be that there's five years left. And that seems very onerous from a commitment perspective. But the market is so barren in terms of who's actually available. If you're looking to add a goalie, they could play 40 games for you next year that I imagine there will be some interest. So I think that's a fair point by you. Yeah, I mean, not only Dorof Yvonne Anderson, but even going down the line like Cole Smith,

Colin Sizzins, who have played big roles for this team, Dylan Coglin, and we haven't really mentioned the third pair. Now, I think John Torrell has done a really good job as a lot of teams do with their third pairs of like keeping them out of the defensive zone, sheltering them somewhat, putting them in positions to succeed. But Coglin and Corsack, a combination that, you know, they kind of stumbled upon late after Lowe's on. injury and Hutton starting the series was phenomenal.

Moving the puck nicely, creating offensive zone opportunities, both chipping in offensively. They were great for them. And so Coglin's another guy who is kind of playing his way into a nice contract, potentially this offseason. So yeah, I mean, there's going to be a lot of questions there. But one thing we know about Vegas is that they're not going to be shy about making moves accordingly. All right, buddy. I think we covered everything I wanted you today.

I know you're a very busy guy getting ready for the Stanley Cup final, which kicks off on Tuesday, and I'm looking forward to your coverage of that series. What do you want to promote here on the way out? Yeah, we're going to, there's going to be an army of us athletic writers, Pierre LeBron, Chris Johnston, Michael Rousseau, all joining us out there out there. So, Sean Gentile, who's been covering the hurricanes, is going to be out there with me. So we're going to have a ton of content. Specifically, I've got a really fun story that I'll tease coming up. I think it's going to air, I think it's going to publish Tuesday morning, which is a couple

day so I won't give it away, but it is a really fun story that is kind of an off the ice thing with the Golden Knights that will show some personality. I know they aren't the most liked team in the league right now. I'm sure most of the people listening are like, I don't want to hear a fun story about the golden nights off the ice. But the players, they really got into it. They have a game going on amongst the team off the ice and they get into it on the road in their like common room in the hotel that they're super into. And it was as excited as I've ever heard hockey players to talk about something with me in the locker room.

So I've got that story coming on Tuesday that maybe I'll convert one person out there to like the Golden Knights a little more than they did before they read it. Well, I was skeptical about moving in Hill's contract and that might be an even unlikely outcome. But if there's anyone that can do it, it's you because your work in coverage of this team is great.

And I'm looking forward to what you have cooked up for this series. If you enjoyed today's show, give us a five-star review wherever you listen. Subscribe to the PDOCAST Patreon as well. As I said, we had Corey Schneider on for a talk about the hurricanes to close out the week. I'll do some breakdowns, especially once we get into a Stanley Cup final. I'm going to try to do some written stuff after each game during the off time between games. And that is all from us for today.

I hope everyone has a great weekend. And we'll be back soon with plenty more. Thank you for listening to the Hockey, PEOCast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.