The Hockey PDOcast - Mailbag Q's with Jack Han

Episode Date: December 6, 2022

Jack Han joins Dimitri today as the duo crack open the mailbag for your hockey questions. This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey P.DEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEOCast. My name's Dimitri Filippovich. And join me on today's show is my good buddy Jack Hahn. Jack, what's going on, man? Doing pretty good. Yeah.

Yeah, doing a lot of hockey stuff these days. Oh, I love it. Well, and you're on the Hockey PDOCast. So that's a perfect fit there. Listen, I threw up the bat signal. and as always you came through and answered. We didn't do the mailbag last Friday, so it had been a while.

I also tweeted out asking for questions and our listeners came through. We have the best listeners in the game, honestly. The quality of the questions they sent in on such short notice are really legitimately thought-provoking and fun, and we're going to pick out some of the best ones and rattle through them and see how far we get. So you're ready to get into it?

Sure, let's do it. Okay. So here's a fun one out of the gate. Max tweets sports asks, what are some under the radar ways handedness affects gameplay and deployment? Obviously, someone's streaking down their off wing, has a better shooting angle towards a net, but are there special ways a rightee can attack a lefty?

Do coaches have different roles for right versus left wingers? What do you have to say to Max here? So when we talk about handedness, actually when I first heard that question, I immediately thought of defensemen first. Because I think for forwards, you have certain forwards who are comfortable playing their off wing, whether it's a guy like OV or Stamcoast kind of loading up the one-timer or maybe, you know, certain players are, they have some place to get off the wall and they're offhand a little bit easier and to create a little bit more deception.

But mostly I'm thinking about defensemen because it, it's a much higher leverage decision you've got to make when you put a defenseman on their offside. And for instance, some of the teams that I'm scouting, they have their defenseman on their off sides on offensive zone faceoffs. And this makes sense on one level because if the center wins the puck back, then they got a one timer right off the bat, which is a pretty nice way to. to at least get the puck at the net, create a juicy rebound, and then work off of that.

Right. But then there's a few downsides, which is if you're, let's say, if your lefty is used to playing the left and your righty is used to playing the right and you're just flipping them for the face off, if you lose that face off, they got to cross and get back into the regular spots, which, you know, it's one extra thing they got to worry about as they're backing up to defend the rush. The other aspect is a lot of teams, they actually prefer to have their defensemen

on their strong side for offensive reasons. So there's a pretty popular play that a lot of teams would use is the center wins the puck kind of back. And then the strong side defenseman comes down the wall. And if that player comes down, let's say, a lefty on the left, he's on his forehand. It's much easier for him to either shoot

or find a cross-scene pass on his forehand. If that's someone coming down their off-wing, it's really tricky to make that play on your backhand with any sort of power or accuracy. So I think, you know, I've kind of strayed away from the original question, but, you know, we don't see players on their off-wings as much as perhaps we could because there's a lot of upsides to having players under strong sides too,

not only defensively because they're used to playing, generally speaking, on their strong side, but also offensively, which is when you're coming down the boards, to have your forehand face in the middle of the ice, is actually advantageous in a lot of situations. That's really interesting. See, I read this question initially in an entirely different way, right?

This is why it's good that we're talking about this, because I read it from the perspective of putting myself in the eyes of an attacker coming down the way, or potentially finding myself in a one-on-one situation in the offensive zone against a defender and how their stick placement and the way they're choosing to defend me would provide certain openings or opportunities to attack them, right? And I think that's really, that's a really interesting sort of detailed way to think about stuff. The game happens so fast and often we're looking at it at more of a kind of macro level from the outside

unless you're actually working with these players on a one-on-one kind of case-by-case basis and you're breaking down their own tape with them and like, oh, this is what you could have done here this week on there. We don't necessarily think about it that way. We just kind of look at, all right, what happened on this shift? And then we look at the stats after and we don't necessarily think about it that way. But I remember, you know, when I went to, when I went to, I talk about it all the time. But it was such a thought-changing experience for me last spring when I went to our pal, Daryl Belfrey's coaching conference in Florida. And the way he thought about some of this stuff and the examples he used of the players he works with and what he looks at with them.

really change my perspective on this stuff in terms of how detailed and intricate some of this stuff is in terms of that one-on-one cat and mouse game between attacker and defender and what you see and what they give you and then how you attack it accordingly. Okay. So, you know, if we're talking about, let's say, a player on their off-wing attacking off the rush, one of the really important things is you'll find a lot of, let's say, high-end offensive players. they love their off wing because it gives them a better angle to cut into the middle, right? You can have the puck almost behind you and shield it from the defense and stick while you

cut into the middle if you're on your off side, which is not an option if you're on your strong side. Right. But also, you know, on the flip side, it requires a lot higher degree of awareness and skill and understanding of, you know, puck positioning and stick placement. and even this kind of, yeah, the mental cat and mouse game. So I think if you have, you know, generally speaking, if you're breaking into the league and you're just learning the level of play,

it's a lot to take in, right? Which is why you see maybe, you know, you have a Kuroa Caprizov or a Connor McDavid or, you know, you name it, you know, these high-end offensive players, they create a lot on their off-wing, but then when you look at middle six or bottom six players, their success rates are somewhat higher when they're on their strong side where maybe it's a little bit more comfortable. They're getting passes in front of them. There's not as many variables in terms of getting through the neutral zone. And they're just looking to kind of drive it through and then worry about the rest later.

Well, I'm not sure if you've heard this story. I said it on a podcast a while back. It was probably before, it was last season. So if everyone, if you're listening and you've heard this, you can feel free to skip forward five minutes. but I thought this was a good place in the conversation to bring it back up because it really got my wheels turning so much. So at that conference, Darrell was talking about how he's working with an elite player that's in the NHL currently that he's going through his tape, right? And he's showing this one play with some of his peers to kind of describe what he's seeing when he places himself on the ice, what he saw in that moment when he made this highlight real play. And it involves this forward going behind the net in the offensive zone and then do it.

that kind of pass back behind their body against the grain to a forward who had basically taken their spot at the side of the net for an easy tap-in because the goalie was looking over their shoulder and looking the wrong way, right? And he expected the player to say, oh, yeah, well, I went behind the net and then I saw the goalie leaning and looking the wrong way. He came off the post. And so that's why I went across the grain. I saw my teammate there and then it led to an easy tap-in.

And this player instead said, no, I actually set this up like seven seconds before because I got the puck along the wall and then I realized that if I went behind the net and everyone kind of followed me, the defender in front of the net who was responsible for defending against my winger was right-handed. And when he was standing there behind the net, he would be in an awkward position where he would have to go across his body basically to tie up that player's stick. And so as that player came into that open spot that he had just departed, he had a, like, the placement of the sticks and how the geometry of it all worked allowed him to make this play. Obviously, this is an elite player who's thinking about this stuff two, three steps ahead.

And most guys just don't have the ability to play that way or see that way. And that's why they're not as effective offensively. But just hearing that kind of really opened my eyes to a lot of this stuff in terms of that chess match and that cat or mouse game and how you're sort of sequencing this stuff. As opposed to just throwing the fuck aimlessly up the wall and hoping random stuff happens. And if it works out that way, so be it. Yeah. And I think a lot of the superstars think that way, but not. every

NHL think that way and definitely not every professional player at the lower ranks think that way and it's just a matter of like, you know,

if you're a player who's able to take in a lot of information and process it really quickly, you would like to have a bigger

sandbox to play with. Whereas if you're a player who's maybe more on survival mode, which a lot of these depth players are, then from a coaching perspective,

you'd rather give him maybe a smaller sandbox so that they don't get lost and they have some more defined structure. Right. So, but again, you know, we've kind of gone a little bit off topic here, but the whole issue of playing on the offwing is, you know, is this the best thing for the player? And you've got to do it on a case by case basis.

Yes. That's okay. Jack, we can go off script here. We're just using these questions as kind of a launching pad for ourselves, right? We can talk about whatever it takes us. Okay. Here's the next question. I got a few kind of more coaching-based questions that I figured I'd use since I have you here to pick your brain about.

Nick Zereris asks, what's the best way to develop a player's confidence when they've been struggling? Okay, so this is something I've written about in my newsletter in the past couple of years, whether it was talking about Alexei Lafranier or I think I did Capo-Cacro as well, Slavkovsky. all the Rangers. Jack Hughes in his first year. But essentially, if you're a good player in juniors or in college or, you know, in a lower league, and now you're in the NHL and you have expectation to perform and you struggle, generally speaking, it's because you're not operating at the same success rate as you're accustomed to.

So just to give you a super simple example, Jack Hughes was putting up two points and a half in his last year, USHL and then he gets the DNHL and is literally one of the worst possession players in the league as an 18 year old. So of course, there's there's a there's a there's a factor of okay, well, he's young and he's not as strong and he's not as developed and he hasn't learned the the player tendencies and yet, right? But ultimately what it boils down to is he's not having the same success rate as he was in the USHL against juniors or college players. So whether it's his exit percentage, whether it's his entry percent, whether it's past completion, whether it's his, you know, shot on net or slot shots.

In his first year in the NHL, all those things were down because he's playing against better players. So, you know, obviously sooner or later, you can't really sustain confidence without having the game or the results to back it up. And of course, that that rookie season was a very difficult one for him, but you see how now he's one of the best players in the league because, gradually his success rate goes up and then his frequency goes up and then now, you know, his profile probably looks a lot more like when he was dominating at the NTDP

than his first year with the Devils. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that's a really good example. I think just in general, I'd say for young players, it's really important to manufacture extra puck touches for them, right? Like I think it's weird how when a young. young player struggles, I think the natural refrain for a coach is to like punish them, either

bumping them down the lineup, which then in theory they're in an even more difficult position to succeed because they're playing with probably more talented players whose responsibility and role is even more divergent from where this young player ultimately wants to be or needs to be to be successful, or they're getting taken out of the lineup entirely and sitting in the press box. And there's the case to be made for kind of, you know, restarting everything basically and getting that bird's eye view and taking yourself out of the equation. But ultimately for a young player, you probably like Jack Hughes when he's struggling in his rookie year, I think it's very important to sort of test what works and what doesn't and figure

out what you need to do in the following off season to bulk up and get stronger and refine certain things and get better at your shot. Sitting in the press box and watching that from far away won't really ultimately help you achieve that that much in my opinion. So you mentioned something that I want to clarify. So you said punish, right? Right. And it goes back to what I was saying before where like if a player is on survival mode and he's clearly struggling and, you know, not putting up the good results that you're looking for, you got to find ways to kind of, you know, make that sandbox a little bit smaller so they can get their bearings. But without, you know, kind of choking off their game entirely.

Without taking away all their toys. Yeah. But like, so it's difficult to kind of walk that line, especially in the league where. you know, you're in the business of winning and first and then everything else second. So, you know, if you're on a rebuilding team and maybe your objective is not really to win, but more to develop players and to maybe even tank, then of course you can, you can afford to trot out these same players over and over again, just kind of let them learn by osmosis. But, you know, if you're trying to win, then you've got to find ways to avoid overexposing players that are causing problems for your team, right?

Yeah. there was this one instance of a player that I was working with and you know I was on the coaching staff it wasn't kind of in a in a personal consultancy on a personal consultancy basis so I was actually responsible for for doling out ice time to this player and this player kind of got very frustrated at me because essentially I wasn't playing them as much as they would have liked right and I said look uh you know a Of course, I can keep sending you out there, but you're, you're getting outshot by 13 every full game that you're playing. And it would frankly be irresponsible for me to keep doing that.

Right. Like even if you haven't allowed any goals in that game, it's like running with scissors. Eventually, it's going to find its way into your eyes. And we don't want that. So, so then, you know, which like that didn't go down all that well, to be honest. Right. I know, it was pretty, you know, I kind of gave it to them straight. But, but ultimately, I follow that up with, you know, now it's my turn to do my job because I can see that there's a problem, but I got to look at the tape and look at the stats to see exactly what the problem is.

And I got to find some solutions for you. So, you know, the onus is on me to do my job. But then once that happens, the onus is on you to be better. Yeah. So it's like, you know, there's, you can scratch this player where you can take it where their ice time or you can, you know, dial it back, but then try to find specific areas where you're having a success for a problem and addressing that instead of just making the problem go away by, you know, sitting the problem.

Well, and also when you say case by case basis, that really applies here as well, where I think if you're the coach and you're dealing with the players, it's your job also to kind of know which buttons to push or how certain individuals will respond from a motivation perspective, especially different things, right? Like not, you can't use the same method with every single player

and a cookie cutter approach and expect the same results. Everyone's going to respond differently. Yeah, and like I wouldn't say I'm the best like motivator or like the best psychologist for a player. I feel pretty pumped up right now. I just like I look at it like if you're driving your car, and the check engine like goes on, right?

You're probably thinking like there's probably only one or two pieces in that engine that's malfunctioning. But if I keep pushing it, the whole thing might blow up. So if I pull over or if I slow down and get to a garage and I figure out what what's causing the problem and I just replace those pieces, I think we're good, right? So that's kind of how I think about it where, you know, in terms of a player, it's maybe their defensive results are in the toilet because actually they're turning the puck over too much, right? They're exposing the puck or they're not making the right decisions or, you know,

they're not shoulder checking as they get to the puck. And as a result, they're just playing a lot more defense. It's not that their defense is the problem is just that they're playing too much of it. And then eventually you get tired. And then once you get tired, like everything breaks down. All right. There's two questions here that kind of go hand in hand. So I'm going to, we'll tackle them one at a time. Jeff Arvin asks, how does a bad defensive player best improve a defense without sacrificing what they're already good at, which is presumably offense and playing with the buck. Okay. Yeah. So that feeds exactly into what I, what I'm saying, because, you know, if you're saying it's a bad defensive player, I'm hoping that this player has other redeemable, yes, you know,

redeemable qualities, right? Because if not, then it's just, well, sorry, but, you know, yeah. Sorry, but see ya, you know. But, but if, if you're talking about, you know, a player with some offensive upside, but defensively who's very, um, very, I would say exploitable, right. Um, and I guess you can look at a little bit differently,

whether it's a Ford or a D. Like if you have a Ford and like Alex Gajalccinik who, who got into a game with Colorado last night, I believe like he's, he's the example that that comes to mind and, you know, 40, a former 30 goal score like really good one timer can, can make some plays.

But his, problem is that he never learned how to forecheck properly and because his skating was never really good enough to change direction and to get defensive stops up ice and stuff like that. So, you know, either you can get him to forecheck in a more effective way or you can make it so that he's not turning the puck over as much. So again, it's mostly an offensive problem. For a defenseman, you know, there are many examples of players in the league who, uh, you know, are big and strong and good and good at boxing out in front of the net, but who have terrible defensive metrics.

And the problem with these players by and large is that they don't move the puck very well out of their zone. And as a result, either they're turning it over in zone or they're just punting it out and then the other team gets it back and then they have to play defense again. So again, it's a problem of success rate with the puck or lack thereof leading to frequency of having to play in DZone coverage. Okay, well, here's a related question. I wasn't even going to do this one now,

but just hearing you say that, at Plastic Nettles asked, why is Jesse Puli RV so divisive? Watching him every game, I understand he doesn't score, but he seems to do a lot of little things very well. Now, you and I last year, during the peak of the Puli Ravi Wars,

or maybe the first installment, there's probably more of them to come, did a full, like, 20, 30-minute episode, basically, on him and kind of a tape study of what he was doing. and why a lot of the takes on them were so incorrect. Now, he struggled to my eye at the start of the season, and it looked like it was at the risk of psychoanalyzing it from a distance. It looked like he had been told that he needed to play more physically, basically.

And so he was actively trying to throw more checks and do kind of that conventional power forward sort of game in terms of finishing your checks and being more physical, as opposed to sticking with what made him such an elite defensive player already, which was his reach and his positioning and anticipation and work rate. And recently I think he's gotten back to looking much more like he did last year now. I understand, listen, he's got one goal in 26 games or whatever. He's got six points.

Like it's very easy to latch onto that, especially if he's playing up the lineup and say, well, this isn't nearly good enough. This guy's a waste of time. What are we doing here? I just can't help but feel hearing all the discourse about him. that it's just he's just held to a different standard because he was a fourth overall pick and he's European. If this was a random kind of grinder that had come up and worked it away up from anonymity, everyone would be all over how good his defensive metrics are and how good he looks,

but instead he's held to this unfair standard in my opinion and we're kind of focusing on what he doesn't do as opposed to appreciating all the little things he actually does do very well. Yeah, and I think a lot of it is, as you mentioned, like he's big and he's a fourth overall pick, but he doesn't do things that big players and fourth overall picks, you know, usually tend to do, which is a hurt people,

you know, with their physical play and B, score a lot of goals. Yeah. So, so there's definitely an expectation problem because if you come in and watch an Oilers game and you have no idea who, yes,

you pull Yardy is, you see him, it's like, well, skates well, works really hard. Yeah, this guy's making a difference on the game.

Fore checks, four checks pretty well. like goes to the net, you know, gets a shot off without necessarily scoring a lot, but he seems to be doing stuff. Yeah, he is. And here's the thing. He's currently got a 5.1 on ice shooting percentage

and an 879 on ice 8% percentage. Everyone is going to look bad when you have those fakers. Like, that's impossible to shake. That has to be. Okay, so let me kind of, like I know we're, you know, we're both Poli Yari fans, but let me bring it back. to something we just talked about, which is that

kind of knowing that elite players have, right? The ability to plan ahead, the ability to, uh, almost like play a chess game, but, but like at lightning speed, right? And like,

Poli Yarvi, like he doesn't have that. Yeah. Like for all the qualities that he has as a four checker, as a, as a puck carrier, as a back checker. Like he doesn't have the elite,

I'm talking like NHL elite, offensive mind or even defensive mind that a lot of these top players have like a Mitch Marner or a Connor McDavid or you know even about Nishchuschen like you know Nishishchukh. Like you know Nishishkin he kind of grew into it because early on in his career he was having a lot of the same criticism kind of thrown at him as Paul Yardv now right. Yeah. So and when you watch Nishushkin now like especially doing the cup run like I think he has a much clear idea of who he is and how he wants to play the game and where his competitive

advantages lie and how he can set up his biggest weapons than a guy like Poli Yarvi. So perhaps it's going to come with time, right? Because he has a lot of physical tools and he's already a really effective player. But we can talk about on-eye shooting percentage or on-isay percentage. But ultimately, like, it's a legit, you know, shortfall in his game because he just doesn't influence the game with his mind as much as, you know, other top players. No, I mean, listen, certainly. Like, he's a flawed and limited player at this point of his career at the very least.

He's 24 years old. Ballarat and Etruschen has an example, and it's easy to use that one as kind of, all right, this is what the best case scenario could be. Took him in time. He left the NHL and came back and now he's 27 and he developed at a different rate as well. I'm not expecting him to reach those heights by any means because I think to Chushkin, like, it's a bit of an anomaly in terms of just like how good he got offensively as well to match up with all the other things he did. But,

he's making $3 million on a one-year deal, right? Like when you'd say the expectations part, if he was an elite offensive mind with, with above-a-average finishing ability, he would be like a maximum contract player, right? Like, it's, you get what you pay for, essentially. So no one here is acting like he's going to score 40 goals. and totally break the mold offensively, but there's clearly a role for him to play, a very valuable one off the puck in terms of all the things he does

to extend possession and win battles and make life easier for when he plays with Carter McDavid. He just makes life easier for him because not only is he clearing space in the offensive zone, but he's actually helping him get the puck more often, basically, because he's doing a lot of the dirty work that, for whatever reason, seems to be overlooked. And then when some other player does it, it's glorified. So that's what that's what bugs me about it because I feel like he really is held to kind of an unfair standard, in my opinion.

So I'd agree with that. And but again, like it's something something that he can get better at. Like whether you look at Nishushcheon or even Zach Heim, like I remember when I was in Toronto, Zach Heim was very divisive on the staff just because a lot of plays used to die on a stick. Like he would go in forecheck and then immediately throw the puck into another 50-50. And I think over time he got much better at it, not only because he consciously kind of worked at it on his own, but also he played a lot with Matthews and Marner and Tavares and Yelander and so on and so forth. So by reading off of these great players, these great thinkers of the game, he, you know, to his credit, he learned later in his career. And Paul Yarvey is still, he's still ahead of that curve, I think.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. All right, Jack, let's take a break here. And then when we come back, we're going to keep doing the mailback questions and answering them. So stick around for that. You are listening to the HockeyPedio cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. And we're back with more of the Hockeyedio cast joined by Jack Hahn today. Jack, I'm still fired up after that Pooley-R-B question that we just ended part one of the show with.

Let's stick with some of the good stuff here. So at Terry Tinyhammer asks, for fans trying to better understand plus evaluate a defenseman's performance, what are some specific things they can look for while watching the game? It kind of ties in to what we've been talking about so far. But I think also it allows us to talk about maybe little subtleties or little like specific plays that you pick out when you watch tape of a defenseman, whether it's off puck or on the puck in either zone. What are you looking for? you seeing that you really kind of want to keep an eye out for? Because I get this question a lot of like so much is happening. The games moving back and forth so fast, I don't know, even know what to look for. So that's why you do some of these mixtapes to kind of try and isolate specific

skills. So let's talk a little bit about that here for the listeners. So I'll, I'll keep it really concise to start. And then we can we can kind of dive a little bit deeper. But without the puck, I'm looking for defensemen who are able to keep the play up ice via pressuring the play as early as possible. So whether it's by pinching down the wall in the offensive zone, whether it's by playing a tight gap in the defensive zone, whether it's by making stops along the wall and forcing turnovers in their defensive zone, the earlier you can stop an opposing team's attack and kind of flip the script, the better your defensive results are going to be by and large. Because hockey is a game of territorial control.

And if you can make the rink really small when the other team has the puck, then you're going to have an advantage. With the puck, obviously, defensemen don't tend to score that much. It's pretty rare to have a defenseman score more than 10 or 15 goals a year. But on the puck, defensemen still have a very large role, which is you're just looking to take the puck from a bad area, which is along the boards in your zone, in the corner, you know, in a contested retrieval situation,

and you're looking to improve the condition of that puck, get it into the hands of a forward somewhere near the middle of the ice, and then perhaps join the rush and sprint to be the fourth person in that rush. So, you know, if we're talking about how a modern defense has been plays a game, like that, that's it in a nutshell. Yeah, well, you stole my first part that I was going to make my smart point on, which was the offensive zone reads in particular, knowing kind of when to pinch along the boards,

along the wall and keep bucks alive for these 50, 50 pucks. You know, meeting the puck carrier early and as you say, surfing with them early and trying to get them to get rid of the puck as opposed to sagging back and playing very conservatively and basically packing your own net, which I hate when defensemen do that. that. I'll make another point here then in terms of in the defensive zone when you're going back to retrieve a puck, something I've gained a real appreciation for was I just watched basically

every single shift, Rosmast Dahlin has played this year for a piece that I wrote up about him. And, you know, he wows you with the puck skills and like the raw talent in terms of like his hands. He can he can, he can, he can dangle better than pretty much any defenseman in the league. He can, you know, his shot. his skating, he has that full thing. But the little details of when he goes back to play the puck in his own zone, Lumio way, because he does two things particularly well. One, he protects himself so well. So if he's going back to play the puck behind his net along the boards,

he's so good at absorbing contact coming from a four checker, someone who's looking basically to staple him into the boards. And he's really good at kind of doing that reverse hit, not to the point where it's interference or to the point where he's trying to hurt the other guy in return, just enough basically to absorb the contact, give him some self-space, and basically crowd the puck to protect it so the other guy can't get to it. And then that allows basically his partner to come and get the puck and make a play unopposed. Other thing he does really well is he uses his own net so well to create space for himself, right? So if you go back behind the net and

chase him as a forechecker, he's going to tightly go around the net and basically cut you off and you have nowhere to go and all of a sudden he's got the angle to move up the ice. And so he's really impressed me in terms of his ability to beat that F1 all by himself basically pretty much every time he has an opportunity to do so. And in today's game, I mean, we talk about how that's becoming more and more important because of, you know, that transition versus Forgic and how you want yourself get out in transition on the attack off the rush. And he allows the Sabres to do that because of how good he is deep behind his own net and in his own zone. So I want to take a moment to make a point about how skill development is done for defensemen.

And I think it's relatively easy to watch these Dalian retrieval clips and design a drill for a young defenseman where he goes back for a puck, he cuts tightly to a net, maybe he does a couple of hand or a shoulder or feet fakes on his way back. But the thing that really makes it work for Dalian and for the Adam Fox or Keel McCarras of the world is it's not really the movement. in itself because the movement in itself, you can learn it and do it pretty well in a vacuum. It's all about reading, you know, the timing and the spacing of the pressure.

So for an example, if, you know, I'm working with, let's say, a 12-year-old kid and we're working on retrievals, I think the kid would do a pretty good job of being able to go back, you know, pivot, go back for a puck, you know, shake and bake, go around the back of the net and then carry it up if it was just me and him and there's no real pressure, right? Right. But the problem is, is that in a game when you don't know if there's one or two or maybe zero four checkers, you do the same movements, but a split second early or late, you can get stapled.

So it's all about the timing, right? Which is why a lot of players, like they look really good in practice. But when they're in a game, they're throwing pucks all over a place because they don't trust their timing well enough or, you know, they're not reading. the space or reading the pressure well enough to know that, okay, I have exactly 0.3 seconds to make this play and I'm going to take all that time to make the best play no more, no less. Right. And that's really what Dahlene is good at.

Whereas other defensemen maybe who have the same like physical talent or physical skill set, they're not able to do it at the NHL level because, you know, when they have, let's say, 0.25 seconds, all of a sudden, their whole world is in shambles because instead of a tape-to-tap pass, now it's like they're falling through into shin pad and they're getting hit for a turnbook. Yeah. No, that's what the whole world is in shambles. Yeah. No, I completely agree.

The timing is everything and it's tough to replicate that in-game setting. Okay, Meeks, was there anything else on defensemen or do you want to move on the next question? No, I think we have. I think we held it. I mean, there's so many, like, little solidities. But yeah, just kind of the little stuff, especially for defensemen, is so important to keep an eye out on. Okay, Meeks asks, what are some commonly long held coaching practices, tendencies, or beliefs that you feel like don't make sense or you don't understand while they're still around? So I actually read his question on Twitter and I was like, oh, like, how do I answer this?

I hope that I didn't pick this one, right? Because like, you know, I used to be like a pure kind of backroom like video stats guy. now I'm on the ice, I'm on the bench. And I don't want to like trash talk anybody or like I, I really like I enjoy the work that I do. But there was one thing that I managed to think of, which is I still don't understand why it's the head coach who runs practices at the NHL level. I still don't understand that because that's like two hours of your day where you're basically like it's stuff that any assistant could take the lead on and probably. would prefer to take the lead on, which allows you to then either focus on some other things or, you know, get more rest or like, I remember and reading about Scotty Bowman when he was

coaching, whether it's the Canadians or the Red Wings or the Penguins. And he wouldn't be on the ice at practice, at least all the time. Like, he would either park himself in the stands and watches players do the drills from a different perspective or he just wouldn't watch practice at all. Like he'd be off like doing paperwork or scouting or doing other stuff. Like for me it doesn't make a lot of sense because again at a high level, every assistant coach is able and probably willing to run the practice because it helps them to develop as people and as coaches as well. And there's probably a time that's better utilized for coaches, especially considering that a lot of

these practices are they're kind of cookie cutter like they're designed to get a sweat going you're not really working on anything specific um if we're talking about like special teams what's the assistance domain anyway so why not let them run it so it's just one of those like kind of time management things i understand that if there were 35 hours in a day there's really no harm in having the head coach kind of take that time to run practice but um you know i know how busy it is and how hectic it is. And again, like, I don't travel all the time and, you know, in an 82 game schedule. Like, I just traveled last weekend for two games and like I'm poop.

And your entire life was in jambles. Yeah. Like, I got it. It takes me half a week to just recoup from one two game road trip. And maybe that's why, like, I'm not working kind of full time on a bench, you know, coaching staff. But yeah, like any little bit of time that you can regroup. coop, especially as a head coach, and reinvest into whether it's rest or preparation or something

else, I think it's a positive. And just because everybody else does it, I don't think it doesn't mean that a head coach has to run practice. You're not lazy or soft if you just, you know, take a pass on that. Okay. Well, so here's my question to you then. Do you think that we have it right at the moment in terms of how generally like the framework of how coaching staffs and the in the NHO are constructed. Like, do you think there's enough specialization involved where like you should have even more people involved behind the bench where you're breaking it down and you're specifically working with smaller groups as opposed to having such like broad job descriptions

or do you get to the point then where there's too many voices, too many cooks in the kitchen and then it doesn't work that way because you're getting different messages and it's tougher to make sure everyone's kind of pushing and pulling in the same direction? I might sound like a traditionalist here, but like I look at an NHL broadcast and there's like five coaches behind the bench and there's like iPads going up and down. It's like I'm good. Like that's that's too much. For me, that that's either enough or too much. Like I definitely don't need anything else happening being added to that situation.

Now, to have a coach kind of as an eye in the sky, I think is a great idea. And, you know, I think most teams do that. And I think that works out really well. to have a video coach on a headset talking with the coaching staff, great idea. Maybe even a stats person kind of on a headset with an assistant. That's a great idea. But I just think there's probably a point of saturation.

And I think on the bench we're either there or we're close. Well, it's obviously a different, it's apples and oranges, but you watch like an NFL game and they pan up to the press box basically or up in the sky. and the offensive coordinator or whatever is sitting there with a play sheet generally and they're on the headset with the coach or with the quarterback and then they're like,

they're doing it from that lens as opposed to, clearly there's not as much tinkering in terms of like calling for adjustments or calling specific set plays over the course of a hockey game where it's much more free flowing. But as far as I know, right now, like how it generally works for most organizations

is you do have stats, people who are tracking stuff live or paying attention to stuff and then they're scrambling to put together reports for intermissions and then it's up to the coach's discretion basically how much they're looking at that how much they're imparting on their players what they're trying to get out of it but it feels like it's it's not it's like a different way of kind of relaying information or utilizing it I guess in that live game setting yeah and like I love having access to data in the intermission whether it's like shots or whether it's like exits entries kind of the transitional stuff I think that's

great um but But think of it this way. Like if you have like a report every intermission that takes like two minutes for you to go through, I think that's a perfect amount of information because I don't necessarily want you in my ear telling me every time something happens, right? Like I'd rather you kind of condense it and then give give me a two minute, you know, report at the intermission as opposed to saying, oh, like here's a shot attempt against or, you know, that guy is doing this and that. Right. It's almost like if you're a stock investor, and you're looking at the ticker like all the time instead of looking at your results maybe on a weekly or monthly or even annual basis. Like there's just in the short term, there's just way more noise and there's already enough

noise in pro hockey. Like you don't want to have too much of that. Yeah, not certainly. Okay. Greg Shively here asks, the King's one three one neutral zone trap got a lot of attention recently as one of the last teams to employ that scheme. Are there any other setups around?

the league that you've noticed that are either unique to specific teams because they intrigue you, but whether they're older relics or kind of more groundbreaking strategies. Is there anyone, because I know, like, you're obviously looking at the individual tactics and sets teams are running and kind of how they're playing out there all across the ice. Is there anything that's really stuck out to you from these first 25 games or so of anyone that's kind of doing something different, whether it is older and they're still doing it or whether it's kind of something you or that they're trying out? So I have this spreadsheet in front of me. And basically what I've done is I've watched every single NHL team between, you know, three and five times.

And I've jotted down kind of their schemes, essentially, whether it's their forecheck, whether it's ozone play, diesel coverage. And I did it to prepare for my hockey tactics 2023 ebook that's coming out now in March. We're a little bit delayed. but essentially you're going to have the systems 5 on 5 on 5 and special teams of all 32 teams. It's going to be illustrated. And then I explained to you in very simple terms how it works and what are the upsides and downsides. So in terms of like relics, I wouldn't say that there's a ton. There's one storyline that I've been getting a healthy dose of on my Twitter feed,

which is the Eric Carlson, you know, redemption tour, right? You know, he's up there in terms of goals and points, not just for defensemen, but for all players. And the thing that really cracks me up is, you know, the whole time that we're giving Eric Carlson all of this credit for kind of reviving his game and, you know, doing, being dominant, if you actually watch him play in the offensive offensive zone, especially defending the rush,

the guy that really facilitates a lot for him is Thomas Hurdle. So Tomas Hurdle is a centerman, and if you go on a site like HockeyViz, you're going to see that generally speaking, the San Jose coaching staff, they systematically deploy hurdles line with Carlson, at least as much as they can at 5-on-5. it's very evident.

And what happens is this gives Carlson essentially green light to be as offensive as he as he likes off the rush and in the offensive zone. And whenever Carlson activates, hurdle actually comes back and plays defense for him. Yeah. So and I haven't really heard anybody give hurdle credit for that. But but I think it's it's one of those things where like once you have a good understanding of tactics and the different tradeoffs that teams and players make.

make. Like for me, it's, it's a really big deal because if Carlson is not playing with hurdle, then he can't be as effective offensively just because, you know, either he's not going to activate or if he activates and things go bad, then they're going to give up an unman rush immediately. So next time you watch San Jose, look at what hurdles doing when, when Carlson's on the ice and, uh, and you might be surprised. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, who did give Erdo credit the San Jose Sharks with the contract they gave him last last season. So he's getting compensated accordingly for his great play both on and off the puck.

Okay, well, so related to that Delta Proctor's here asks, got a Bruins question. Jim Montgomery has said he's kept a defensive structure the same after he took over the job at the start of the season, but tweaked how they play with the puck. Clearly it's working. There's a lot more east-west passing, at least to my eye. Have you noticed anything in particular that's different from 2021, 2022? I know that I was watching a broadcast earlier in the season that Ray Ferrar was on.

He was pointing out how there was an added emphasis for them to get their defensemen more involved, especially breaking the puck out of their own zone, allowing them to kind of carry it out more and sort of moving them up the ice sooner as opposed to how they were playing under Bruce Cassidy. Have you noticed anything in terms of changes? because their defensive numbers are just as good as they've been in the past. They are clearly playing remarkably well right now and winning pretty much every game they're playing.

And so I'm really curious, especially when there's a coaching change like that, with like a roster that pretty much turned over and we know what to expect from already. When something like this improves as much, it's always interesting kind of what's facilitating it. Yeah. So I'm looking at my notes here, defensively, no changes. Yeah.

And then offensively, the two big things I've noticed, And, you know, you mentioned the D's making more plays and being more active on breakouts. I think that's a league-wide trend. Like every single team now is more aggressive than they were five years ago or even three years ago. So I think that's, it's true, but I think that's a little bit more like kind of league-wide. The two areas where I see more changes in the offensive zone, they're attacking with more downhill motion.

So they'll get into kind of this three players high that you'll see. whether it's Colorado or Toronto or Florida, you know, they use that two, three a lot last year, whereas now you're seeing, again, half the league,

it seems like they're using that on a regular basis. On the power play, they've gone to 5-4 power play with Critechie as, as the extra point man once in a while. And I think ultimately the biggest difference with, again,

like I'm not privy to how Montgomery kind of coaches his team, but, you know, of times you can get more offense out of your players by harping on mistakes less because they're just not overthinking things and maybe that's what the biggest difference is which is just like if you stop yelling at people when things go bad then they're going to be less hesitant to actually do things that help you well and you probably have a bit of an advantage doing so when you're coming in fresh with a clean slate as opposed to having been there for the past five six

years or whatever Bruce Cassidy was there for, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, every, every player knows that when a new coach comes in, it's kind of a clean slate. So, you know, all of your past turnover as mistakes are forgiven because he wasn't there for that. And also you need to kind of put your best foot forward to earn your playing time and earn

your role. So I think it's a lot more of the interpersonal dynamic and kind of the coaching dynamic as opposed to the pure X-O's. Yeah, right now, Jake DeBrusk is just nodding his head vigorously. Like, yes, yeah, I know all about that. Okay, Jack, well, this was a blast. We got to some really fun stuff. I'll give you a minute here.

You mentioned the hockey tactics, which is coming out in March. Let the listeners know where they can check out your work and kind of what you've been working on recently. Okay, so the thing I'll plug today is my substack newsletter. So you'll find that at j-h-a-n-h-h-k-y dot substack.com. And the reason why I think you'll get a kick out of that is not many people, you know, work in pro hockey and then, you know, as a coach and write about it concurrently. And because of the contracts that I have, I'm able to do that right now. So I can really give you kind of an insight glimpse of how coaches adjust, how coaches teach, how they interpret tactics, how they scout players. So all the kind of stuff that like that happens behind the scenes I try to present it to you in a very kind of plain English sort of way.

So, you know, we got over 5,000 subscribers. Lots of teams are signed up. It's really a great platform. Whether you're a new hockey fan who's maybe into other sports or you're a player, a parent, a coach. Really for me, it's the best place to get information on the nuances of the game. So again, it's j-h-a-n-h-h-k-y-dot-substack.com. All right, man. Well, this is a blast.

I'm glad we got to do this. Thanks for taking the time. As always, we're going to have you back on soon. Once the questions kind of fill back up in the inbox, and we can tackle some good ones. So for the listeners, if you want to get involved in future mailbags, feel free to send over questions whenever on Twitter, Instagram, email. If you enjoy the show today, help us out by smashing that five-star button

wherever you listen to the P-D-O-Cast. and we'll be back soon with more. So thank you for tuning in and listening to the HockeyPedio cast on the Sportsnet Radio Network.