The Hockey PDOcast - Midseason NHL Awards

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

Dimitri welcomes in John Matisz from TheScore NHL as the pair hand out their NHL Award winners through 25 games this season. This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey-Pedio cast. My name is Dimitri Philpovich. And joining me on today's episode is my good buddy, John Mattis. John, what's going on, man? Not a whole lot, Dimitri. How are you?

I'm good. I'm excited to have you on. It's been a while since we chatted, at least on the air. I think we'd have to go all the way back to that time I was in Toronto. And then we did a bit of a home-and-home at the score studios there. That was quite a while ago. So it's good to have you back on. Yeah, that's got to be, I want to say, late 2019, maybe 2018.

Yeah, everything's so foggy. There's definitely pre-pandemic for sure. Yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah. No, it was a while ago. So it's good to do this. So we have a variety of topics because you cover the league at large as well and you do a bunch of national stuff.

So we're going to get into some of that. But you know what? I thought it would be fun exercise for us here today to do a bit of a bit of a, bit of a 25 game awards ballot. I feel like these, I know it's still so early, so much is going to change over the next couple months. We acknowledge that. I think it's fun.

That's a fun exercise though, because it kind of serves as like a bit of a time capsule for us, right? We can like refer to it after and be like, oh, like, where were we at at this point in the season? How much has changed since then? How much has held true to form? And so 25 games is also like statistically, I feel like a pretty good delineation point as well because now we're getting meaningful samples of like how players and teams are playing and

we have a better sense of what's going on. So are you down to, you down to do that with me here today? Let's do it. Yeah, it's it's also helpful from our perspective selfishly because you don't want to leave all that award thinking to the end of the year. Obviously, that's when you put a lot of time into it before you cast your ballot. I assume you have a ballot at the PHWA. I don't. I actually don't. Oh, okay. I was a member a couple years ago, and then I decided to just to leave that to the fine folks like yourself. I like to do it on the podcast here, and I do my like fake ballot, and I get people asking about it all the time. But I don't actually have an official one.

But let's pretend, let's pretend that I do. You have one yourself. So we're really going to be leaning on you here and trying to mold your opinions for year-end so that we can get the votes we want. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, if we start with the heart, which is I assume where you want to go with this off the top and everything trickles down from there. I feel like it's a two horse race at this point with Robertson and his just prolific goal scoring. And then what McDavid is doing, the splits out in Edmonton are the usual, I guess, a huge disparity between when McDavid's on the ice and when he's not. And then with Robertson, it's hard to really look past him at the top of this ballot based on, you know, 23 goals and he's only playing 1747 a night.

I mean, I look back at last year's top goals per 60 score. And it was, I believe it was Matthews at somewhere around like 2.8. Probably should have wrote that down. But Robertson, yeah. Yeah, Robertson's at 3.1. And this is, like you said, small-ish sample size, but still 25 games is nothing tiny. And just his fit with Pavelsky and hints is just so perfect, the way that they all just blend into each other as just an absolutely stunning line.

I mean, they destroyed the league last year. They're doing again this year. So there's certainly no fluke in there. And I think also when I, I think of awards, if there's ever a tie break, I kind of lean towards the guy who, not necessarily that I like more, but has a very scientific criteria. Yeah, I know, but like I just love the way the guy thinks the game. Obviously, McDavid does too.

I mean, they're probably both in the top five in the league, McDavid, for sure, as far as hockey IQ, hockey sense, all that good stuff. But I think he does it in such a unique way. I totally get what you're saying. Yeah, I, 25 games is a smaller sample. And this is like a new level for Robertson that he's ascended to. But that efficiency you speak of in terms of how much he plays compared to some of the other top scorers and still how much he produces isn't anything new, right? Pretty much since he's come into the NHL and he jumped on that top line like a year and a half ago or two years ago, he's been one of the most efficient scorers in the league.

I have, it's funny you mentioned that as like the two horse race because I feel like the past couple years and it'll extend for the next 10 years. The heart conversation is generally going to be Connor McDavid versus player who's having the best season of their career. And then I'll be like, all right, this guy's, this guy's having a really good year. And we've also got Connor McDavid for the 17th straight season because he's the best player we've ever seen to play hockey. And that's just how it's going to be.

And that's totally fair. I had Robertson on my list as number one, and I'll give you a few stats. He's first, or he's tied first in 5-on-5 points with 22 of them. He's first in goals with 23 and 25 games. He's third in raw points behind McDavid and Leandro Settle with 41. He's sixth in shots, 10th in shot attempts. Here's the craziest stat of all for me. So the stars are up 24 to 14 with him on the ice at 5-1-5 this season.

So they've given up 14, 5-on-5 goals. goals against while he's been out there. He is 13, 5-1-5 goals scored all by himself. Wow. So he's in like 350 minutes or something so far this season through 25 games. He's pretty much playing all of his opponents to break even. And then everything anyone else does while he's on the ice is gravy. And they do a lot because he's got cool players with him along with Pavelski and Hintz and when Heiskenins out there with him. So yeah, I mean, listen, the stars are second in 5-15 scoring as a team. and in all situations, and they've got the third best power play.

And it's a team effort in the sense that they have a lot of good players, but it's clear that he's such a driver for them offensively. And I think that would surprise people, right? I think people are still caught up in that Rick Bonas, the Dallas Stars are boring and are basically trying to play you to a two-two draw, and that's the way they are. And in reality, they've actually been a very aggressive, high-scoring, fun team, and he's the biggest reason for that.

Yeah, a couple of things. one on the goal scoring, I felt like this with Matthews last year where you review all the goals and I don't know, 80, 90% of them are just him beating the goalie so cleanly, pure skill, like the luck on it is very low and just kind of in the cat-mouse game

between the goalie and the player, just winning it, the vast majority of the time. I'm seeing that a lot with Robertson right now where sure his shooting percentage is high, sure he's playing with really good players but the way he's beating goalies I guess it goes to his efficiency

is just next level so that's another thing where you look at it and go okay like is this going to slow down yes but to what degree because what he's doing is repeatable in a lot of ways because he is just outsmarting the goalie and he's got a wicked shot

another thing with him and you know I definitely default to the numbers I default to the eye test what I've seen throughout the year. But you can't ignore the narrative with these awards, like just in terms of throwing all the data points together. I think narrative is one of those. And Robertson came into the year missing training camp.

I mean, usually guys have this lull of a month or two, and he really didn't have that lull. So if he's able to continue to build on this first 25 games and is in the conversation at the end of the year for the heart, I think it matters that he sort of just hit the ground running and was such a force early on and was, you know, sort of end to end game one, game 82, this dominant player within the context of he was coming off this negotiation that stretch all the way into basically the start of the regular season. Right. And he's ascended to that like most elite tier of, I mean, we just saw Connery David do it recently to like when he plays the Blackhawks or something and it like looks like. it's like a pro playing against a bunch of amateurs, right? And or like the older high school student who's like playing like up against just like

the younger crew. And he's just like doing absolutely whatever he wants out there. And that's the sensation that I had watching him against Anaheim ducks the other night. We're going to talk about the ducks later here for a for a less glorious category. But it just felt like that. Like every time he was on the ice, I was like, I think he's going to come away with a goal here. And he came away with a hat trick. He didn't even play that much because the game was so out of hand.

it really felt like he could have had five or six goals pretty easily if things broke right for him. And so, yeah, he's reached that level, which very few guys are where it feels like at times they're really just like so, so like outclassing their opponents, both like physically and mentally and just like everything. And he's there. So it's a great story. It's really fun.

And I think, you know, you mentioned the narrative there. I'm like much more beholden to the statistical side. of things, which I also include, like, what I'm seeing with my eyes when I'm watching all these games as well. But, like, I don't like to get, like, too lost in narratives and stories, but you can't help frame it as this is, like, the new guy who's ascended to this level versus someone who we've seen at this level for years. And that does play into voters' minds from, like, a psychological perspective, no doubt. Yeah. And even if we circle back on McDavid in terms of narratives, you mentioned it before. He's kind of become LeBron where puts up these insane

numbers year after year and the voters are like, eh, you know, it wasn't his best year. So we're just going to slot him in at number two or number three on the MVP list. Whereas what he's doing is always incredible. It's, it's a bit, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, we all of our biases. And I think that plays into it as well on the other end of it. You've got Robertson and his narrative. And then you've got McDavid in his narrative. And it's almost impossible to completely ignore it. I'm, I'm with you in terms of the statistical package, the I test. Those are the most important. But there's there's other context too okay and that's enough on the heart we got a if I guess it's like the most important one or the or the most prestigious one so we're going to spend

the most on it we can't we can't spend 10 minutes here on every category otherwise we're going to be here all day um let's I actually wasn't planning on starting with a heart you kind of uh you kind of stepped in and hijack my show there I was going to build up to it I was going to start with like rookie oh my god maybe tossing a little lady Bing that no one actually cares well no I'm not going to do that but let's do the let's do the calder let's kind of work our way up now. I'm really curious for your take on this because I can already tell, I don't have a vote. As I said, I'm already tell I'm going to be very frustrated with seeing the year-end results

for this category because there's one player who I would have number one who I think is going to slide down the list because he's not going to score a lot of points and it's going to bug me so much. So I'm really curious to hear about who you have up top and who you're in consideration here. Well, I think it's Owen Power, Matt Baneers, and Logan Thompson for me as far as the top three guys. Power and Baneers are a tier above Thompson. I'll talk about Thompson quickly here just to get him out of the way. So 9-20 say percentage, he's shouldering a fairly big load for one of the best teams in the league. I don't think we can ignore that.

But the environment he's playing in is pretty favorable. So I knock him down a peg. And even though he qualifies for rookie of the year, I think the age factor is still relevant. I mean, it's way more impressive for an 18-year-old to do crazy things than I don't know exactly how old Thompson is. He's going to be 26th in February.

Yeah. So even though his story is fantastic, I mean, he came out out of nowhere, really. He's playing Canadian University hockey not too long ago. I think that just, you know, the mental makeup, the maturity, the time with goalie coaches, etc. He's got a few more years on some other guys.

So he's in my number three spot, but I didn't want to shout him out. Well, let me give you a note on Thompson that I had as well, because I think he's going to be, I mean, he's in the top three. I think he's going to be even in the top two

or potentially number one on a lot of people's lists if it keeps up because he's going to win a lot of games. Vegas is going to win a lot of games. And it's like a very easy story to latch on to and to root for. And it's like writing that story, that story, it writes itself, right? Especially coming into the year, Robin Leonard's out for the year, oh, what are they going to do in that?

Like last year was such a mess. And then everything's kind of coming together favorably for them. Now, I don't hold the age as much against him because goalies are almost on an entirely different timeline than skaters, right? Like 26 is certainly pushing it, even by the NHL's letter of the law. But it's fine. Like you don't see 18 year old goalies come into the NHL and start playing. They just aren't afforded that opportunity anyways.

You know, he did play 19 games last year. So he's eligible for this award. So that's all that should matter. Like I let's acknowledge that. What I would say is, you know, he's got a plus 4.8 goal save above expected, according to evolving hockey, which is 17th best. So it's good. He's been a net positive.

But you mentioned that environment. The Golden Knights give up the sixth few as tight injured chances against the sixth few has expected goals against. It's a really good team that has the puck a lot. And it's a pretty good situation for him to play in. I know recently they deteriorated a bit defensively and I put more on his plate and he's looked great doing so. And so maybe if the year goes on and he keeps having some of these performances where he actually has to legitimately steal wins for them, I'll change my tune. But right now I just, I don't think he's been, he's been good.

I don't think he's been nearly great enough to vault him into into this category for number one best rookie. Because, and I have to acknowledge my own biases here, I hold goalies to a different standard, right? Like, we're a goalie to break into this for me. Like, I need them to be a legitimate difference maker. And I think he's been good, but not great. Sure. That's fair. Do you have anyone else in your mind and you're percolating in terms of the Calder as far as getting past Thompson power and baneers?

Are we missing anyone? It'll be pretty tough. Like, I actually think, you know, similar to what I just said about Thompson. I think Stuart Skinner, for example, for Edmonton has had a very comparable season to Thompson. He's just playing in a tougher environment. So his safe percentage is a bit lower. he's winning a bit fewer games, but you know, his goal's able to be expected is higher.

I think he's been every bit as good. I would add Jake Sanderson maybe to this if his minutes continue to climb, right? He started off the year. They weren't sheltering him in terms of, like, usage of, in terms of who he was playing against or where he was starting his shifts. But just in terms of the minutes,

if Thomas Shabbat is playing the type of volume he does, it just doesn't leave a lot of meat on the bone for anyone else there, unfortunately, if you're not on his pairing. And so we have to see him kind of work his way up. But in terms of the eye test, like he's been right up there with everyone in terms of like passing it with flying colors because he's such a such a brilliant skater.

And with Baneers and power, I'm, if I were to vote today, I'd probably put power ahead. But it's like by hair because I think what Baneers is doing is pretty special too. Yep. You know, 21 points and 17 minutes and night. So the efficiency's there. He's an 18 year old center. Like I think we've been spoiled a little. bit over the last five, ten years of guys jumping into the league and being effective.

But I think we, as a hockey community, tend to forget how difficult that assignment can be. And I just like the details in his game. I think that he's basically as advertised, I guess you could say, coming into the draft with his two-way detail and his ability to impact so many different situations. I mean, he's got that puck handling and agility to beat guys one-on-one. So you've got that, I guess, flash and dash. And then defensively, he's pretty solid as far as stick checks and angling guys and just not being bullied. And maybe a part of that is going back to school for a year.

And that worked out in his favor. But he's been just a driving force on that cracking team. So I've been, I don't know surprised by Benares, but I've been really impressed. But then power, you know, it's not exactly. a shocking thing to say that it's very difficult to play defense in the NHL when you're a teenager, especially the minutes he's playing and the fact that he's just shouldering. I don't know. He's almost already become their number one defense, but obviously Dahlene is.

No, he is. John, he's, I think he's in the top five. I said this. I did a whole power where he's been here a section on Friday show. So I don't know if the listeners are like, oh, we've heard you talk. about this. I don't want to necessarily be repeating myself. But I think he's fourth or fifth. He's definitely top five in most five on five minutes in the league this season. Like he's, he is their number one defenseman. Dali, he gets the scoring situations and the power play minutes.

And he's been great himself. No knock on him. But yeah, the amount of responsibility they've thrown on his plate immediately and how good he's looking so, like cannot be overstated. And he's got the length and the size and the strength, but he plays almost like, I don't know, someone who's 5 foot 10, someone who's 5 foot 11. He's just so, he has such finesse. He has such good puck skills that he's essentially the full package. So I think if you're just sorting by points on the rookie board,

it's very easy to be drawn to Baneer's name and just almost forget power. but if you're watching the games, quote unquote, you know, watch the games or hashtag watch the games. I think that power pops a little bit more as far as overall impact. Yes. Yeah. And it's not one of those things where by any means that Biniers is just like putting up empty calorie stats, right?

It's like he has that two-way play and that ability to impact the game off the puck with his porchick and his tenacious, just like pursuit of it similarly. like so it's he's a total package himself um i think you you said 18 there earlier both guys turned 20 in november oh okay they did because they went back to they went back to college right and they got a bit of a taste last year at the end of the season and i think that helped both of them but i can i the reason why i said i i can already tell i'm going to be upset is because esPN like and released a power pole today and they had Owen Power 5th on their list

and I'm like, oh wow, I don't. Well, come on. Like, what are we doing here? Like, let's just admit that we haven't watched the Owen Power Play hockey then if you think there's been four rookies better than him this season. So, and it's because he has 10 assists

with no goals and he doesn't play on the top power play, but there's so much more to making a difference for your team than that. And he's done that. And Benares has as well. So it's going to be a real toss up between those two. probably going to lean beeneers in terms of who I think will win because he's going to have whatever 60, 70 points and the Cracken are probably going to be in the playoffs, whereas I don't

think the Sabres will be. And so he's got a good case there. But yeah, it's a really fun class. I don't, and considering how much fan bases like get invested in their, in their best young rookies too, like I don't, I don't envy the people having to deal with the repercussions of picking one over the other because the other team's fan base is going to be pretty upset. So, all right. Calder's done. Heart's done. Let's do the sell key. This is going to be a quick one here.

It's almost like a free block for us. Give me a take. Number 37 on Boston. Are we in agreement there? The metrics are always through the roof with this guy. It's, you know, there might be a story there in terms of like,

who has had this type of career where, I don't know if Bergeron's getting better. That might be overstating it. But to be this late into his 30s and doing what he's doing is really, like, I don't want to say it's unprecedented, but it's, it's right up there as far as, you know, an elite class of people. It's one of those things where he automatically goes to the top of your mind because of his

career, but then you actually watch him, you look under the hood, and it totally lines up. Another guy that I had got it down was he's here. And then from there, I honestly didn't, didn't. do a full deep dive just based on like i'm going to talk about burgeon well uh but but the only note i have here well i have more but the main one is apologies to nico his year who's having a fantastic individual season and in normal circumstances i'd be talking his case up here but we we don't we don't need to we don't need to pretend that it's anyone other than bergeron i mean listen here 19 i don't know if he's getting better as you said his production and his

underlying numbers are though which is frightening um Here's a metric for you, or here's a staff for you. 262 515 minutes this season. The opposition against him has mustered three total goals and 28 total high danger chances. Now, by comparison, the Bruins in those minutes have 11 goals and 72 high danger chances. 497 NHL skaters with 200 minutes this season at 515.

He's first in the fewest high danger chances allowed. First and fewest expected goals against allowed. third and fewest goals against the loud. I mean, what he's doing is ridiculous. He's basically like any up-and-comer that's like, I'm having a good season. Look at my two-way impact. Like, when he's his year, he's basically doing the Kempemitombo, just wagging his finger at them.

Like, nope, not this year. You're going to have to wait your turn. And normally, I get very upset at like the career achievement stuff or people lazily just like not changing their opinions because Sasha Barkov was underrated six years ago. so he still is apparently. This isn't one of those instances. Like this is the statistical case there.

And when you watch him every night is he's the best defensive forward. And that hasn't changed. And he's, it's consistency, right? Like I don't know how many games I've seen over his career where I go, oh, Virgeron really got eaten up there.

Or he gave the puck away or he didn't have a stick in the right lane. Like it's kind of unsexy stuff at the end of the day. For sickos, like you and I, it's maybe a little sexier than it is to the casual fan, but it's really, it's something else. It's almost not even because like I can't even put together really a mixtape for him in terms of showing people why he's so good because it's like he's standing in the right place at all times.

It's like just watch him stand in the middle of the ice, which is the center he's supposed to do, but most of his peers don't because they go chasing the puck or they get themselves out of position. and he instead is so disciplined in staying in his lane. And yeah, like he does like the back check where he comes back and someone is going to have a nice chance and he lifts their stick. And there's certainly that element as well. But a lot of it is just like so subtle where you almost have to break it down frame by frame. And it doesn't really make for like mass consumption in terms of people being like, yeah, I want more of this.

But it's so good. And the fact that he keeps doing it is awesome. Yeah, I do wonder like how long can he keep doing this? and you're waiting for that drop off in the same way that you're looking at Krosby and going, okay, one year he's going to completely fall off the cliff here, but it just hasn't happened in either case. No, it hasn't. All right, John, we're going to take a break here.

And then when we come back, we're going to keep going through our ballots. And we're going to sprinkle in some, it's not going to be just the usual stuff. We've got some fun made-up awards that you and I have cooked up as well. So stay tuned for that. And we're going to keep chatting with John Mattis here on the HockeyPedio cast. on the SportsNet Radio Network. All right, we're back here on the Hockeypedio cast, joined my John Mattis today.

John, so we've done the heart, the calder, the Selke. Let's jump into the Norris. I'm curious for your take on this one, because I've actually, I think this is probably the category that I've got the most names written down for with one kind of sticking above the rest, so far. So I'll let you jump into it here. Yeah, I was nodding my head, as you said, you had a bunch of names because I'm not quite sure. Like the Norris is always the one at the end of

the year where I really have to sink my teeth into it because it's just so easy to get caught up in the point totals to get caught up in name recognition. So, but at this point, 25 games in, the names that come across my desk are Adam Fox, Mero Haskinen, Kill me. Macar as usual. Rasmus Dahlene is at least in the conversation somewhere. Charlie McAvoy and then kind of honorable mention to Eric Carlson. I don't honestly know who if I were to, you know, gun to my head. Maybe Charlie McAvoy is my guy right now, but honestly, I...

You feel like he's played enough so far? Yeah, probably not. That's the thing. That was kind of what's been holding me back. Yeah. Maybe I don't know. And that'll be less of an issue at the 82 game mark, right, as opposed to right now. he misses the start of the year.

And so it's, it's purely nitpicking. But, yeah, I throw Josh Morrissey in there as well as a name that I did not expect to have in there. But, and I think by season end, like there's going to be some regression because right now they're outperforming all of their underlying numbers quite a bit. But, you know, he's producing himself. They're scoring significantly more with him on the ice than they're giving up. And so I wanted to give him some of up.

But yeah, I've got, I've got Eric Carlson here as number one for now. just because I think his offensive impact has been so impossible to ignore. Like it's been so not unique because there's a lot of a lot of these guys can create a lot for themselves and for others. But just seeing what he's doing there every night, maybe I'm being a bit sentimental and buying into the narrative too much. Maybe I just, you know, I'm a sucker for missing this Eric Carlson and now we're finally get him back.

I'm just so head over, heels over it. but assuming there isn't like significant regression he's not going to keep scoring as many goals and points he has so far because everything's going on the eye on while he's on the ice but if he keeps up something remotely resembling this I think the offensive impact is just going to be too much to ignore yeah I think I I think we were it's funny we were both kind of we're going in different directions with this because I think with Carlson and and myself I'm projecting like some sort of regression versus just stopping at 25 games and going right okay what have we seen here, whereas you're stopping at 25 games and going, you know, maybe at 82,

I'm not picking Carlson, but right now I'm picking Carlson. But it's really the classic, you love to see a situation because, one, he's playing with just a random guy in Magna, right? And he does his job. He's a simple player. He's kind of the safety valve for Carlson. there's no high-end player on his other side. And there's something about Carlson and the way he can impact the flow of the game.

I think that's kind of for me where the value really comes from is he can control the pace. And he's such an elite skater now that he's healthy again, that he can make this rush where he's either leading it or the second man or the third man. and if the puck's turned over, he's, you know, one of the first guys back just because a couple strides later, he's up on that puck carrier. And that's what we saw when he was, whatever, 2017 and earlier, the type of player that he was in the way that he could exit the zone in the defensive zone, enter the offensive zone with control, with this sort of deft playmaking ability where, you know, kind of one of those guys with eyes in the back of his head. and also has a bit of an underrated shot. And I think, you know, at the end of the day, Burns not being there is certainly a factor.

You go from having two, quote unquote, go to offensive weapons on the back end to just one. We can't ignore the impact there. So I think that's a factor. But what he's done has been on a really like mediocre is actually kind way to describe the sharks. But what he's been able to do is quite something. It has.

Yeah. And I was saying this on a show last week. You can see that he's got that dynamic kind of pop back in his step because you can see the way other teams are treating him. And maybe part of it is because there's so few other things to necessarily have to account for or worry about on that team. But like when he's pushing the puck up the ice, the other team sagging back because they're respecting his speed all of a sudden.

And even when he was effective the past couple years, I mean, you say 2017, he was obviously he had like one of the best playoff runs i think we've ever seen from an individual he was doing it in like such a crafty way though like you can tell he wasn't right physically which makes it even more impressive that he was basically playing on one leg but he wasn't necessarily just like striking that fear of god into you with the pure skating it was the smarts and picking you apart with his passing now he's almost like the way he's pushing it up the puck up the ice sometimes it's almost like people are like just just stunned that he's coming at them that fast and they're just sagging back and giving him so much respect and so i think that's pretty cool

cool to see you're right i kind of do this purely from like all right we've seen these 25 games so far this is what i'm judging it on not necessarily what i think i'm going to be thinking at the end of the season so i i think that probably um you know opens the door to to looking foolish potentially because there's so much season left and a lock and change and then maybe at the years end we'll be like man what was i thinking at the 25 game mark but it's kind of all we have to go off at this point so that's uh that's what i'm factoring in um you know i wanted to make the point about Adam Fox because the tenor around the Rangers is so negative right now with everything going wrong and everything.

If you look though, like his numbers so far this season are actually significantly better than when he won the Norris a couple years ago. And he was really good and deserved that award that year. Like his power play production is down a little bit because that unit itself has regressed or not been as potent this season. but otherwise, like at 5-1-5, what's happening with him on the ice, how much he's creating himself, how good he looks, it's just as good as it was when we all decided that he was the best defenseman in the league. And now others have elevated their games as well.

But I wanted to give him a shout out here. And then, you know, let's finally make this the year where Miro gets legitimate buzz, because he's finally putting up the points that are in line more so with some of his peers that we consider for this award. and everything else he does is so good that we need to give him some love. I mean, he's certainly in the conversation for best defensive defense. Even though it kind of sounds weird to attach a label like that to him because he has the offensive pop. Right. But his ability to kill offense around him is his next level.

And the stars are kind of a trendy. Trendy is the wrong word. They're kind of an it team right now with Robertson, you know, Hints just signed a con. contract. They had all these contracts to to line up in the off season and they've all worked out really well. They're winning games. Even Wedgwood was on a run there when Ottinger was out. So there's there's more focus on Dallas than certainly in the last few years. And part of that is okay, they have a coach that is is more running gun than than shutdown, which helps in terms of the entertainment factor. But Hayskin is right up there, you know, behind Roberson, sure,

as the team MVP, but not by a mile. Yep, I like that. All right. Vezna, what do you? This is the ultimate one where it's very scary after 25 games only. But give me what you're thinking here because I've got two names.

They're the only ones I wrote down. But I'm very curious to see like kind of where are your heads out with this. Sorokin and Hellebook, I assume? Yes, yes. Yeah. I think it has to be, right? Like it's, I mean, because I'd say the only other guys that have been even nearly good enough or, well, I guess you could say Allmark potentially, but just because, you know, how much he's winning and, and his numbers are fine.

But, I mean, what we just said about Logan Thompson, like, it's such an advantageous environment to be playing again for him that I don't think we should necessarily be like giving him all of the praise for it. And then, like, you know, for a while there, Carter Hart was putting up. numbers that were close enough to these guys, but he's come back down to earth a little bit in the past few games, and you'd expect that to continue just because it's such a miserable situation in front of him. So I don't, I really don't even see someone who I'd feel confident pushing the first two guys through 25 games at the very least. Yeah, it's kind of nice to see these two guys in the conversation at the top too, because I feel like Sorokin, because Vasilevsky's won so many cups have been so dominant for so long.

And because Shisterkin had that massive breakout season last year, he's been forgotten as this third incredible goalie out of Russia. And he obviously plays in front of a team that takes care of its slot area. And that helps. I mean, I don't think there's no denying that. But you got to give him credit because the consistency has been there year over year. And now you're seeing him really pop as far as the team. is getting a little bit more offensive under Lane Lambert, not to any great degree,

but he's basically put up similar numbers as he has in the past. So that shows that his value is certainly there. Well, no, let me, let me, before we move to Hellebuck, yeah, yeah, let me make this point. I think you're underselling how much the environment has changed because you look now, and the Islanders give up the fourth most expected goals against this season. the only teams that give up more high danger chances than them according to natural statrick are the ducks the Canadians the coyotes and the flyers all teams you'd expect to be up there and like barry trots is gone like this is a different different situation and i think it's a net

positive for them that they're playing more aggressively and trying to create more under layland but as a result it's become more difficult you can't just you can't just bank on the default anymore of oh well anyone you put in there is going to thrive i think the fact that sarokin has a nine 33, say a percentage is, is absurd. And plus 21 expected goals against in 18 games is ludicrous. Yeah. And I'm actually, while you're talking, I pulled up the leaderboard for sport logic. I've access to some of their statistics.

So coming into Monday nights games, inner slot shots faced. So like the most, the deadliest shots you could have on a goalie. We've got John Gibson, which is not surprising, 19 games, 171, 171 inner. slot shots faced. Number two, Sorokin, 18 games, 126. Right. So obviously a huge gap between one and two, but

he's still number two, which is a little surprising, really. And then you go Jake Allen, so that doesn't surprise you with the habs. And then you go Carter Hard, that doesn't surprise you. So yeah, that says it all. I mean, that's, it's one

thing to give up a bunch of shots from the point, but to give them up in those high quality areas, that's a whole other ballgame. So Sorokin's facing the type of quality chances that he just didn't previously. Yeah, 942, say percentage of 5-1-5 as well. I mean, yeah, I think it is only 18 games played for him so far, which is also, like, should say, I mean, like part of the rise here has been, you know, they have brought him along slowly from the perspective of like he was a start,

in the KHL, right? But then they comes in, they already have Samuel Barlamo there in place, and he doesn't necessarily just get given 60, 65 games right out of the gate, right? That is kind of ease him along. And then now he's the clear number one there and he's playing significantly more.

And so, yeah, once, I think it's legit because you watch him and athletically, he's such a freak, like the way he goes laterally and the types of saves he makes just like from an athletic, pure athleticism perspective or as special as you see in the league. So I think he's legitimate, then Connor Hellebuck.

I mean, similar to what we said about McDavid at the top, like it's for most seasons as long as the Jets allow him to be, in terms of like just being at least competent enough in front of him, he's going to be in this conversation because he's, you know, he's very, very good and he's Connor Hellebuck. Yeah, he's in terms of the nice stories in the Vesner race. And he's probably right up there with the guy who's battled injuries, who's played in front of some really,

suspect poorest defense structures. It's nice to see, one, him getting more help and two, him producing the types of results we've seen in the past. It's almost like the opposite of what's going on with John Gibson in Anaheim where these guys came up around the same time, both American, both had big seasons as young guys. And certain years, they've both been crushed by their defenses, just not enough help. And obviously in Anaheim, we're seeing a team continue to let Gibson out to dry. And with Hellebuck under bonus, Winnipeg's turned it around at least to some extent.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, certainly. I think, I mean, listen, he's got a 931 say a percentage plus 16 goals saved above expected. So, like, not quite what Ilya Seroakins been doing, but very close. And in most years would be like the clear runaway in all those categories. So, yeah, I think those two guys right now.

or head and shoulders above everyone else for me. Let's get into some of the fake awards that you and I have cooked up here. I'll let you go first. What's one that you want to get into here? Let's do the most exciting player to watch. And then kind of a second part of most exciting role player to watch. The nerdyer part. So who's your most exciting player to watch?

Oh, I mean, for me, I think. it has to be Tage Thompson because there's just no one else like him. I mean, what he's been doing, so he started off a bit slow, last 18 games, 15 goals, 16 assists, 90 shots on goal. And it really feels like he's, I mean, maybe like in on this side of Connerick David, Connerick David, is it his own category in this regard? Other than him, though, it feels like he's the best bet for every single time he's playing. He's going to create one viral moment where he does. something wherever one just goes, I cannot believe a human that big did something that smooth. Yeah, the one clip you posted on Twitter recently where he's picking the puck off the boards and

goes between his legs on the PK. It's wild because I've been talking to some NHLers lately about like what's a hard thing to do out there. Like obviously all these guys have, you know, competence in every skill at a pretty high level compared to the average person. But these guys aren't perfect. some things are just more difficult to master. And a lot of guys talk about how hard it is to smoothly pick the puck off the boards.

When you're a winger and the opposing defenseman's coming towards you and you maybe get a puck that's bobbling and it's just, that's just one that kind of perplexes some guys. So for Tage to do that, you know, so smoothly at his height is just unbelievable. And the amount of times he's deeked out the goalie from, you know, below the hash mark. and I'm not talking just one, you know, side step and then roofs it. He like does three or four deeks and just undresses the guy. He's done that at least a handful of times for goals this year. And I don't know about you, Dimitri, but I was thinking about this the other day. And I didn't do any sort of like big investigation into it.

But like, I was trying to think who over six foot five, so Thompson's six foot six has displayed this type of small area skill. Like I was thinking like Eric Lindross would come. to mind. He was 6'5.2.30 or something to that extent. But like, it's a very, very small group of players over the last few decades with that size, Thompson is 6'6 and he's like 220. He's a big lad. For him to do that with that size, the puck handling is just incredible. Yeah, I saw someone at the start of this run. I saw him like compared to like, oh, like this kind of reminds me of Mario Lemieux. And I think it's like it's you that the natural inclination is so like sacrilegious almost to compare anyone

to a grade like that and uh and lemieux's listed at 6 4 230 if you go on on elite prospects but similar in terms of like at that size just how smoothly he could do pretty much everything with the stickwork and yeah i it started off as a joke now it's like i i can only assume this is what it was like to watch prime mario lemu this version of tase d'all's it because this is just it's freaky how how effortless it all is. You mentioned that play with taking the puck off the wall, putting him between the legs,

not only does he not break his stride, he actually builds up speed as he's doing it. And I didn't even, I just wanted to clip that one little move so people could focus on that. But the end result of that play is he goes in on a rush

and makes another move, creates space for himself, and almost scores a short-handed goal. So it was like, it was just building layer, layer on top of layers. So his ability to do stuff like that, just seemingly to pull it

out of nowhere and now just make it a regular thing is I can't remember the last time I enjoyed something as much as this like it's it's such a it's such a joy just to to watch him do this and I really hope it continues because there's been nothing like it was he was he your answer for most exciting player as well yeah I mean I put tage thompson slash Alex tuck just because I think he's right not as fun to watch but the fact that they play in the same line I want to give him a shout out. And with talk, the straight line speed is pretty incredible, especially for his size.

And he's got pretty filthy hands as well. And then you toss in Jeff Skinner and his edge work. Like, that line's just, just fun. That's really the best way to describe it. And they are producing now. So, you know, if you're the Sabres, it's, it's marketable. And then it's also helping

you win hockey games. It's quite incredible. Yeah. Other guys I had jot it down was Jack Hughes, Mark Stone. Mitch Marner, because of his ability to affect every end zone in the middle. And, you know, there's obviously the Bergerons and Macarres and McDavid's of the world. But those were some names that came to mind. Yeah.

Yeah, I think Jack Hughes is a good insertion there as well. I probably, if it weren't for Tage Thompson coming from a different planet to do what he's been doing, I think a big case for him. Well, okay, so let's do your kind of your tangentially related topic to this, which is a favorite role player. I'm going to deliver it here for you, John. I'm going to come completely out of left field and give you a name that I'm sure you have not thought about at all, which is what I assume you wanted from this exercise when you pitched it. Blake Lazot. Okay.

Well, okay. Yeah. And I was going to do Logan O'Connor, but I've talked about him so much. The video cast, enough Logan O'Connor. Even Logan O'Connor's family doesn't talk about him as much as... I've heard you describe him as like Nathan McKinnon without the actual production. Well, if you look at him, if you're not paying attention to an abs game and you casually look at the screen and you just see someone flying down the wing with the number 20 something and they're just going faster than everyone. You're like, oh, there's Nathan McKinnon.

Oh, no, actually that was Logan O'Connor. Blake LaZont, he plays like less than 10, 5-1-5 minutes per game for the Kings. He's actually 13th in usage when you account for a couple of the guys who haven't been in the lineup because they've been hurt for them. He's in the top 100 in terms of scoring efficiency at 515 though, over two points per 60 tied with the following names. Who all play significantly more than him, of course, like you can't. It's Apple's to oranges. But if Gennikos Netzop, Miko Ranton, and Pavel Bichnevich, just ahead of him, Austin Matthews. I love Blake LaZot because he plays with an endless motor and maybe it's easier to do that.

when you're playing nine and a half minutes or whatever the way he does. But every shift that he plays is the most important shift he's ever played in his life. And I love that type of role player. That's like my dream because you send that guy out there. You know you're getting max effort. He's got some sneaky skills in scoring there as well. He scored the five, five, one five goals. Like it's not like he's purely just going out there and trying to hit people or just

trying to provide energy. He's actually trying to create himself. And so it's like the, it's my dream version of what I walk. want a bottom six or even potentially fourth line player for a team that's as deep as the Kings to do. And he does it in like a smaller undersized package as well. So it's a bit surprising to see him play that way. And so I just, I love Blake goes on. I know playing for the Kings out here in the West Coast, late games, maybe doesn't get nearly as much attention as he probably would if you played on Toronto or Boston or New York. But really fun player who I recommend people

watch if they ever tune into a Kings game. Yeah, the Kings have some sneaky, fascinating players to watch lower down their lineup with Grunstrom, Trevor Moore. They're just stalked with these defensemen that just keep coming through. I know Sean Dersy has some name recognition, but he's another guy. But for my most exciting role player, I'm going to go out to Seattle. And I think this is a guy who may tickle your fancy too. Brandon Tanna, just the pure chaos that he brings to the game. And it's controlled chaos.

He's not going out there, you know, delivering headshots or icing the puck when he shouldn't. But even like his skating technique is a little chaotic. And he has this nose for the net. Like for a guy, you know, third, fourth line, he's able to score some, you know, skillful goals. And there's just something about him. And obviously the headshot that he's become famous for, I mean, you got to give him a little. little props for that. And the way that he's become a cult favorite in the cracking fan base,

the way that his jersey flaps in the wind and his hair flaps in the wind when he's skating down the ice. Like, I just, I have a, I have a spot in my heart for Brandon Tannav and what he brings to the table as a role player. That's a really good pick. Yeah.

I mean, that's, when you, when you look up like energy guy, that's, it's, it's Brandon Tann F. So that's a,

that's a really good pick. All right. We actually have a couple other categories. here, but we're, uh, we're out of time. We spent so much time on everything else. And, and, and you know what, I don't regret it because it was a blast having you on and chatting and hopefully the listeners enjoyed that as well. And we're just going to have to have you back on.

I know we wanted to talk about Jonas Seganthaler as well. And we had him in a different category or I least I did. But, uh, we'll have you back on here soon. And then maybe we'll pick that back up and we'll be able to unpack that. So I'll give you, I'll give you a minute here quickly to, to plug some stuff, um, what you've worked on recently where if you can check out your work. Sure. So on Twitter, I'm Mattis John, M-A-T-I-S-ED, J-O-A-H-N. I tweet out all my stories there, I get involved in some discussions there. And yeah, senior NHL writer for the score.

I cover the entire league and try to take different angles on the biggest topics and try to deep dive certain players, certain teams. I like to look at the human aspect of being a hockey player as well and get into some minutia. and whatnot. So your best bet on that front is probably to Google my name, Google the score, and you'll find my author page. All right. I love it, man. Keep up the great work. We're going to, like I said, have you back on here soon and we'll get into some of the stuff you've written recently. So we'll chat then. If you enjoyed the show's listener, please help us out by smashing that five-star button wherever you listen to the PDO cast. And we'll be back tomorrow with more here on this feed.

So thank you for listening to the Hockey PDOCast, streaming on the SportsNair Radio Network.