The Hockey PDOcast - Most Interesting Teams To Watch This Offseason

Episode Date: June 26, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Shayna Goldman to help run through the teams we're most interested to watching this offseason, and the things they're going to be able to do. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey P.D.O.Cast with your host, Dmitri Filippovin. Welcome to the Hockey-Ocast. My name's Dmitra Filippovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Shana Golden. Shana, what's going on? Hey, thanks for having me. So this is our first official off-season show. We did our mock draft last week.

We did our off-season preview from like the team perspective. I had Steve Waryer on, former assistant GM of the Florida Panthers. He kind of provided the listeners with a peek behind the curtain for how teams prepare for this busy time in the NHL schedule, but this is our first official offseason content since the Stanley Cup final mercifully concluded. And we have no time for us. We're immediately jumping into offseason content.

It's going to be a busy week with buyouts starting and then the draft this weekend and free agency, obviously next Monday kicking off. And I thought it'd be fun for you and I to sort of set the scene for everyone and kind of prepare everyone and ourselves by going around the league, pitching each other on who we think

are the most interesting team this offseeing. season for any number of reasons. It's kind of subjective, but it could be teams that have big decisions to make or at a bit of a crossroads as an organization or teams that just have a bunch of assets and kind of are holding a match in their hands and can start a fire if they want to. And so we're going to go back and forth and just pitch each other essentially. So I gave you a bit of a homework assignment. We'll see how much overlap we have between our teams. It should be a fun exercise. As the guest, I will give you the floor here first. Who is your most interesting team this upcoming offseason.

I am very interested to see how the Edmonton Oilers handle the offseason. First of all, the Ken Holland situation is interesting because to me he hasn't done an amazing job. So I'm curious how much he has input because it does sound like he's going to be scaling back and they're going to look in a new direction soon. But you have so many things going on, right? Like the number of pending unrestricted free agents, they have seven signed forwards for next year. You have guys like Connor Brown who it's.

It took him a while to hit his stride, but he did it. He did it at the end of the year. He did it in the postseason. He looked like the player we knew, you know, that finished up in Ottawa. So that's going to be really interesting. You have guys like Fogel, like does he stick around and at what cost? And even, you know, like on defense or what are they going to do as a backup goaltender situation? Then you have the Jack Campbell bomb.

How do they shed that cap space? What are you going to do with that contract? Because who among us would take that on? You have Dylan Holloway as an RFA. He, to me, looks like a great offer sheet target because you. you could try to offer him one year at four million and only give up a second round pick. And Edmonton might not be able to match it depending how they do everything. And then you have the biggest situation of all.

Our bestie, Leon Dreis Eidel, what do you do with him? Because his contract's up in a year. Do you let him go into the season unsigned? What do you do to extend him? Or do you move him because you're afraid of what might happen? And, you know, no one wants to be left holding the bag without their all-star forward right there. So all of that makes for a really interesting offseason. And you think of how this was the best Oilers team we've seen in some time.

And we have Chris Knoblock killing it behind the bench. Now where do you go from here that you can play the 82 games? Have another shot at the postseason and another shot at the cup. And then try to, you know, exceed what you just did with a huge budget to work with. We really cannot quit the 2024 postseason, right? People are listening to this and like, finally, we're going to hear about teams other than the Oilers and the Panthers. and we start out with Oilers, and I think deservedly so. They were on my list as well for all the reasons you highlighted there.

It seems like, you know, from the reporting that your colleague, Chris Johnson, has done at the athletic, it should come as no surprise that it seems like more of a matter of when than if a Leondry cycle extension happens, right? He seems very personally motivated to keep this band together, to see this through to finally get over the hump. And it makes sense. Now, he's playing at $8.5 million right now, right? And that is a massive competitive advantage for them, considering how much is a half. actual market value is. And so you imagine after next season, whatever his extension comes in at, it will probably account for much of the kind of cap raise we're seeing across the league. And so

that negates a bit of a spending advantage there for them. I think they're going to buy out Jack Campbell, right? That seems like the most logical conclusion here. They had him buried this past year that saves you about whatever, $1.15 million. If they buy them out, it only costs them $1.1 million next year. so you get to use a couple million there extra, and that's massive for them considering all the stuff they need. I think what's interesting about them is despite the fact that they made it as close to winning a Stanley Cup as you possibly can, right, getting to that game seven and that impressive comeback from 3 O'Down,

it also highlighted all of our fears about the way their roster is built and all of the things they need to do. Now, I think aside from second pair of ID, which is obviously a tricky spot to fill because most teams around the league are looking to upgrade there, and the supply and demand is, you know, quite off in terms of how much supply there is compared to how much demand there is. What they need, I think, more so than anything is just doubling down even further on speed on the wings, right? We saw the impact that Holloway had playing with Dry Saito, Fogel, when he moved up to the top six,

how different they looked as a team and how they functioned with those guys there as opposed to Evander Cain and Corey Perry and some of these veterans. And so those are theoretically players that you could probably acquire for cheap, whether it's young guys, that are drafted and developed like Holloway or whether it's adding on the margins for cheap in free agency or be a trade. And so I'd like to see them be aggressive there. I guess the good thing for them is they have a lot of flexibility from a roster perspective because pretty much everyone in their bottom six aside from Derek Ryan is a UFA. Now, you can view that as a negative because a lot of those guys contributed to their Stanley

Cup final run, right, especially on the PK and that third line in the Stanley Cup final. but also we know that you don't necessarily want to be committed years down the road to bottom six guys. So they can essentially, I'm sure they're going to try to bring some of those guys back, but they can also bring in some fresh blood and talent there that could give them a bit of a spike and infusion in speed. So I'm very curious to see what they do. Yeah, absolutely. And like the other part of it is you talk about the bottom six, it's not like their team ripe with that entry level talent ready to jump into a big role.

And I think that's really important. When you look at how a contender is built, that that's an essential part. of it you know you look at the last stanley cup winners and besides the Vegas golden nights because they don't care about young talent and entry level players they'll cut whoever they have to everyone else like they had someone in a key role Tampa bay wins they have Ross colton they have players at the ready these young talents you look at um Colorado they have bone barum so it would help to have more of that entry level talent to put into these roles and they have a couple guys but it's not like i look at that fourth line go it could be a kid line like we're seeing other contenders kind of roll with so I think that'll

add an extra element to it. Like, do they start prioritizing picks or do they realize like, hey, you're a contender, just be smart and get those really cheap veteran guys like the Panthers just had? Yeah, I think I've seen it kind of floated out around that Victor Arvinson is going to be a priority ad for them and a logical fit. And I love that. Obviously, especially the idea of him playing with Dreisaitel and Holloway on a second line. We've seen what he can do as a volume shooter, as a guy who attacks off the rush.

He still plays with so much pace, despite someone. with the back issues he's had the past few years. So it's a bit risky because of that, but also I would just love that fit. So if that's what they do, sign me up for more of that. And then I think they have to find a way to essentially flip Cody Csci's expiring contract, which is what, $3.25 million into a better second pair, right, shot defenseman who can hopefully play with Philip Broberg on a legitimate second defense pair, right? I love what I saw from Browberg. Once he got inserted into the lineup, I think he's only going to get better. It makes sense with more reps and experience. And so those.

Those are, I think, the two things they need to do. But I think, you know, despite the fact you don't have that much flexibility, I think it'll be an active offseason from them. Let's stick with a theme then. I know I made the joke a few minutes ago, but how about my next team is the Florida Panthers? There's Stanley Cup final opponent. The reason why I'm very intrigued to see what happens beyond Sam Reinhardt's impending UFA status atop a lot of the DRAOFA boards is I want to see whether they're going to follow through what they've done in the past, which is just being sort of. ruthless in terms of prioritizing results and long-term decision-making or whether they're going to be satisfied with winning a cup and be loyal to this group, right? Obviously, Brandon Montour is also

a UFA. Guys like Eckblad and Bennett have one year left and for Hagee. And so I think they have to make some decisions on whether they want to play that string out or whether they want to extend them or whether they want to potentially cash them in and trade them while they still can. So, and Donald is also up for a new deal as an RFA. So I think the Panthers, despite not having much flexibility themselves, are in a position where they could kind of make a lot of hay this offseason, especially in the trade market. And I'm curious for your take on kind of what you think they'll do and how they'll approach it because Bill Zito has a chance to not only build off of a championship run here, but potentially set them up for being a contender, even years down the road,

easier said than done, of course, because I think loyalty is a big part of the NHL. Yeah. So I had them on my list too because like whenever you, championship costs, cap at the end of the day, right? Like, you look at the Urales and the guys, those secondary guys who got the big contracts, the C Brooks of the world. You look at Tampa Bay and it's the Chernx and Sorrelli's and Sergacheves who got those massive deals after they want to. Like, that's what you have to try to avoid here.

And the good thing for them is that they don't have a ton of players they can fall into that trap with, I feel like, because I think that they honestly know what to do with Ryan Hart and Montor. And next year, it's the same thing with a guy like Sam Bennett. Like, I could see them saying, well, Anton Lendell's already be the two C, so you can slot down and be the three C, but you're not going to make more if you, if you want to stay here. And I think that a lot of players are going to have reason to stay there.

I think some of those depth guys, they can interchange pretty easily or keep it minimum salaries. A guy like Ryan Longberg isn't going to get a huge payday. That works in their favor. Oliver Ekman-Larsson-Sull has that buyout money. He's not going to get a huge payday if they go to keep him around as well. So all of that could click. I'm really intrigued to see what they do with the guys, not so much of this year,

but next year it's the Epilads of the world and the Verhege's because I feel like Verhege is a guy who is underpaid on this contract, but he can. can easily become overpaid for the next contract. There's, I think, a way to do a value deal and keep him as a supporting guy. But, like, you know, Ekblad will be an interesting one because I think it was very good at times this postseason, but Boersling's proven to be the driver of the pair. What works in their favor was that his last contract was front-loaded. So his actual salary is a little lower right now, Ekblad, that if they front-load his next

contract, they could probably keep the cap-hit pretty similar to what it was, and that'll really click for them. So I'm very interested to see what they do, because they do have some up-and-coming talent, like Isaac Lussela in Lundel and you can lean on them. And you have such cost-effective deals in Kachuk-Barkoff, which I know sounds crazy because we're talking about almost $10 million deals, but that's what it is. And then the Foresling deal is such a home run.

So there's a way to make this work while being ruthless, and there's a way to make this work because the Panthers are such a destination. I know everyone talks about the taxes and stuff. And like as someone who loves to get in the weeds about that, I do think it gets a little bit overhyped. I think it's just that they have a system that works for them because we're forgetting, like, players still get taxed on the, the road. You know, the only difference really is if you're in a non-income state tax place like Florida,

when you go to Chicago, you don't get taxed because they taxed on the road based on whether their players get taxed in your home state. So that's really, you're still going to get taxed a bunch in the road. You know, it sure, it helps that they play Tampa numerous times a year. But still, like, it just is a lot for me, that whole conversation. I think that they just have figured out a good system and kind of like the maximums at each position. And that's how they've kept things in check. Yeah, I guess I'm curious to see how proactive they'll be, right? Because a lot of the big decisions, you're right, kind of come next summer for a lot of the most interesting players. But they have a chance here to really kind of determine what they're going to do ahead of time in doing so.

And in particular, coming off the championship shine, right? I think everyone's value on this team increases because you just saw them be winners, win a Stanley Cup. A lot of them contributed along the way as well. So if you wanted to all of a sudden trade a Sam Bennett or Aaron Eckblad while they're still under contract, at a pretty manageable salary, I think you could get significant value for them. Now, we'll see if they're actually willing to do so or whether they want to bring it back together.

But, you know, Lundell led them in 515 scoring and he's going to be a priority long-term signing for them. Reinhardt, you know, you talk about the Kachuk and Barkov salaries similar to the way we talked about the Bruins over the years. Those guys kind of set the ceiling, in my opinion. And so whatever Reinhard's deal is, if it's with Ford, I imagine it'll come at a figure that's going to really bug fans of other.

teams because it'll be significantly less than you'd see him get on the open market. But he clearly loves it there and they just won a cup and it makes sense that he'd want to be back. And so, yeah, they have a lot of fun stuff they could do. You know, they're probably going to lose a guy like Teresanko who I think is going to try to get as much money as he can while he still can coming off of this championship. I'd be fascinated to see them potentially, you know, it sounds like Jeff Skinner is going to get bought out by the Sabers. I think he'd be so fascinating.

I was going to say him. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, Jeff Skinner is my Teresanko enclavement. Literally, that is exactly what I was going to say. Well, you're very smart, Shane. So it makes a lot of sense that you would similarly think that similar to what Matt DeShane did for Dallas this year, right? Like he's going to already get this buyout money from Buffalo.

He's made a ton of money already. I think he can sacrifice a few dollars for one or two years to actually finally compete in a Stanley Cup playoffs. And he'd give them a nice little scoring chance creator off the rush element and basically replace what Tarasenko did. So, yeah, I think the Panthers have a chance to not only bring the team back together, but potentially even be better next year, which is very scary for the rest of the league. All right, there's no more Stanley Cup playoff team or finals teams from this season that we can talk about. So we're going to talk about fresh blood here.

Who's next on your list? Detroit Red Wings. They jumped to the top of my list after they were trade yesterday. As it is, they have an interesting situation because Luke's Raymond, I think, is going to have just a breakout year. We saw him kill it down the stretch. He was one of the most important players, and he really kept them in that playoff race

until the dying seconds of the season. then you have the most cider contract conversation and whether you bridge him because you wonder can he bring the offense especially if he has a little bit more support around him because he had some of the toughest usage in the league or do you just go long term with him now? If you go long term with both,

you don't have enough money to a ton of money to improve around him, which they should want to do because guys like Peron and Kane are up and the goaltending situation isn't perfect either. Then you have Eisenman kind of like giving hints that they might be in the goalie market, right? Like they don't want to spend a bunch of prime assets on someone who's a short-term option.

But say UC Saras comes around, that's a long-term option. Do you change it? Do you only need a 1A because you have Lyon or who-so as your 1B? Like, I think they have a lot more options. But yesterday's trade adds another bomb into the whole situation, right? Because we look at their defense and they had a lot of guys under contract. I mean, Paul barely even played for him at the NHL level because they were just blocked with guys like Chirot and Petri and Mata.

and Sider and Shane Gatsbyer, like, on their contract. And it seems like they want to keep potentially Schen Gossabir, which I think he was a very good fit for them. But they moved Jake Wollman. Not only do they move Jake Wollman to me who made an appropriate salary for the value he brings to a lineup. You know, I think you could say, sure, he was over leveraged with Sider. They clicked together, but they were over leveraged.

And maybe you would want to see them separated if you could get a real partner for Sider. And that's where like a Matt Roy. comes into the picture for me from LA as a free agent signing like he seems pretty perfect for them but to trade him and add a sweetener I'm absolutely shocked at and I go okay there must be another big move on the horizon but I still look at it and go why not attach that pick to someone else and I know you know charot has a modified no trade clause and petri has a no movement clause so maybe you couldn't do that but like maybe Mata maybe someone else you could have paid off to take you wouldn't think it would have to be woman.

So to me, I look at the eyes are planned and I'm like, I'll give you a minute. But now I have questions when before I was like, all right, let's just see how the Red Wings cook and let's see if they can get back into the playoff picture next year. So I'm really interested to see where they go from here because I think we all have high hopes. We're all excited about their progression. But you're going to need to see the result soon. Feels like a make or break off season.

And I don't love the start just yet. Yeah, I'm not sure if you feel similarly, but after having done this, job for however many years now, I've like progressively become more desensitized to being shocked by moves once they're first reported, right? I think like you just realize that even if you don't initially get it, there's probably something behind the scenes or something you're not privy to that will eventually kind of click into place and make sense and at least justify it even if you disagree with the logic. At least it's like, all right, this is what they were thinking. This was one of those that I was like genuinely baffled by once I saw a break because it was initially one of those like, oh, they got a

second round pick for Jake Wallman. All right. And then I was like, oh, no, they gave up the second round pick to get off of Jake Wallman's money at $3.4 million for two years, which is perfectly reasonable, as you said, for a 28-year-old mobile defenseman who has been good the past couple years, even if maybe a bit overplayed. So I thought that was stunning. I guess my question for you off of that one, and we'll get into the rest of the Red Wing stuff, is do you think it's as simple as they just wanted to kind of get ahead of the market a little bit, clear out that $3.4 million? so that they're ready for July 1st because they have other things brewing, obviously the Raymond and cider extensions themselves,

but also the UFA market? Or do you think there's something more to it? Because I don't know, I couldn't help but realize like, all right, so they have the 15th overall pick this year, right? The shark's second pick beyond the first overall is 14. I'm curious if the future considerations evolve something there in a potential swap later or, you know, the sharks have used all three of their retention slots,

so I don't think there's anything with that. I'm just like trying to connect this because it might just be as simple as, all right, there was no market for Wallman. Guys like Cole, Sherrod, and Petrie were prevented from moving to San Jose because they had them on their list. And so this was the only thing they could do. And it might be as simple as that. But I'm stunned that they couldn't move off of Walman's money for free, essentially,

to any other team as opposed to actually having to attach a 53rd overall pick, which is like a legitimate asset, right? Like, that's a pretty valuable draft slot. And for them to have to move that for a player who I think is decent and perfectly adequately paid at 3.4 was very surprising to me. Yeah, because if you're the sharks, you look at the workload, well, and town, you should be like, this is great. This is great because we can throw him to the fire and he can take it.

He might not be good in it and we don't really care, but he can take it. And that's something right there, right? To add the pick, it just, it doesn't make enough sense to me that you, then don't move them. It's as simple as that I would buy out Justin Hull's contract first and say, I think, I saw it earlier, I think it's $1.1 million that would be on the books for four years.

You take it. It's not really that big of a deal. But you know, like, you look at how a team, not for nothing, look at the Rangers. They got through with, what, 13 million at one point

in dead cap space to have one in a growing cap environment. That's fine, especially when you know you have entry level contracts, like Ed Vincent, that you can lean on and you have a cheap goalie situation.

Like, there are ways to make this work. That it just, it was such a surprise to me. Maybe there is something with those future considerations. Oftentimes there is nothing. I'm hoping for Detroit's sake that there's something in the works there because right now I'm very underwhelmed to their start of the offseason.

Listen, a Jake Wollman trade isn't going to break your team, right? Like, it's not going to. But defense should have been a big focus. And I wonder if you could have landed that big shutdown defenseman to play opposite sider, how Wulman could have looked on a second pair. Like maybe you should have given him the shot to drive his own pair versus who's already there. And I know that there are some restrictions. But it's like those are consequences.

of your own action. Maybe don't further the consequences and try to get out of your mess. I don't know. It just, I get it. It looks bad if you buy someone out a year after signing them, right, with Hull,

but like it doesn't look good that you traded a guy that you signed pretty recently either. No, certainly not. I mean, listen, C. Byron was also the one who extended Wallman last year for three million, for three years as well,

right? So it's obviously damning with fame praise, but I think he immediately become San Jose's best defenseman. So for them, it's a massive coup does actually get him and a valuable ass. set, especially after they just like, they took on Barclay Goodrow for free at a much worse deal last week. So a kind of shocking series of events there. And sometimes this happens in the league

though, right? And it's funny you mentioned Shane Gossesbury. It kind of happened with him a couple years ago where the league just randomly decides that a player is just like not to their liking or not valid, but we're like, oh, like this guy, you can't really play with him in a certain role. And then all of a sudden, Philly has to attach a pick, sends him to Arizona. He rehabs his value all of a sudden becomes a massive asset. And so I wouldn't be surprised to see that here. Detroit's a great pick. They were number one on my list.

So you nailed it there. They were conspicuously quiet at last year's deadline, right? They had a chance to make the playoffs of the first time since 2016. They didn't really do anything despite being on that playoff fringe. They've been very active, the last two free agent periods. They have $32 million in cap space now. Now, I think they are, and they should be preparing to go eight years on Raymond Insider, especially Raymond, and with that, it's going to come a massively inflated AAV to justify buying those

UFA years. So that's going to eat up a big chunk of that if that's the case. But there's still going to be linked to guys like Gensel, Stamcoast. You mentioned Matt Roy, who is a local guy who is a 29-year-old right-shot defenseman, would significantly help them. You look at their depth chart right now in the blue line. They were 24th and goals against last year. They just subtracted one of their better defensemen.

And I know guys like Edvenson are coming up, and they have a few other problems. suspect defenseman, but they need to throw cider a lifeline here, right? Like, this is a guy who his usage was just so extreme last year and he really struggled in it and through no fault of his own. Like, that was just a brutal situation he was in. So I'd love to see them give them, even if it's a guy like Roy who's playing on a separate pair, he can eat up and soak up some of that usage and allow cider to actually succeed a bit more.

And that would be a massive net positive. So, yeah, it makes sense that that's kind of the direction they're headed in. Hopefully there is another shoot a drop here and they're going to be very active and so we'll judge them when that comes. But yeah, it's been a bit of an interesting start here so far. All right. Let's do one more team before we go to break here. I'm going to pitch you on the Nashville Predators who were number two on my list. I think they find themselves at a really interesting spot. I'm curious to see how aggressive they're going to be trying to consolidate the success they had last year as an organization, right? Barry Trots took over last summer. He didn't wait long to mold this

organization to his image and his vision and his liking. He hired Andrew Brunette. He tried to make a splash at last year's draft involving Ascarov and Picks, didn't wind up succeeding, but was still very active. Brought in O'Reilly, Nyquist, Chen in free agency. The team made the playoffs last year. They showed their limitations from a talent perspective in that series against Vancouver, but I think it was also a promising year for them because Andrew Brunette, they played a totally different style. Their underlying numbers were all very encouraging. And now they're armed with so many ways they can improve, right? They have, despite all the dead money they have on contract that either bought out or retained, they have $25 million in cap space. Their HL affiliate made it to the

semifinals, I believe, with the Calder Cup playoffs and had like a 19 game winning streak. And it was led by guys who were former first round picks that they recently drafted. And they had this UC Soros trade ship. Now, I know that the goalie market so far this offseason, in terms of what Markstrom and Allmark got back in return aren't very encouraging. I'd argue Sorrows is in a totally different stratosphere in terms of his age and athleticism and reputation. And so we'll see if they extend him, keep him for one more year or trade him. But the point is, whatever they decide to do, they can go in so many different routes

to improve their team. And that's why I think they're really a team to watch. Okay, so they were on my list. So I think we're four for four right now. They were like top three for me. I'm all about general manager Barry Trots. He's saying all the right things. Like he comes in and even his draft strategy.

He's like, we're drafting for skill. We're drafting for the best players available. You can find up the players anywhere you want, but you need to draft your stars. And I was like, that's right, Barry Trots. That's number one. Two, I like that he's saying you need to find offense and you can teach defensive structure and things like that.

And if anybody knows it's him, obviously he's in a different capacity as a GM. But that's his expertise. And he hires a coach who can, who's great at leading teams in, like, a rush-based attack, which is exactly what they need. I feel like he's looking at this team and going, this is what we need and this how we get to it. And I'm very impressed so far. The vibes, I feel like he's improved. And you could tell by some of his off-season moves.

Like, that's bringing in Ryan O'Reilly and Luke Shen. Like, that was the intention. And I also like that this team rewarded him with the winning streak. And he rewarded them with very small moves, right? like Jason Zucker for nothing he basically brings in just because he could take on his full cap hit. Like I like the way he's operating and even the McDonough trade. It was all done in good faith. So I think that's going to encourage players to go there.

You know, like Nashville's an interesting spot because they don't want to be stuck in the dreaded middle, which they've been for some time. And he seems to have his eyes on the future, which is also super encouraging. But like they could be a spot that teams players want to go to. And the Saros trade chip is the most interesting of all. You're totally right. Totally different stratosphere than all of the other goalie trades. This is a bona fide number one goaltender.

And even this year, you look at his first half, you look at what he did in the second half, and it's not the first time he's just turned on the Jets when his team needs him to to help him get to the postseason. And last year, one of the best seasons in the analytics are. So all of that, you know, could make for an interesting situation. Like I'm so intrigued to see if they do end up extending him this year. And what that first year of the contract looks like, can they keep him to a modified no trade clause in that first year?

so they have options and just make it that year two has a no movement close so they can kick this decision down the can a little bit and still have say, you know, all the 15 teams to choose from. Like that would be a really smart bit of business. And I feel like he has the creativity to bring it. So I think he's everything Nashville has needed, Trots. And I want to see what else he has up his sleeve because they have, you know, these elite pieces at each position. They have the up-and-comers that Luke Evangelises and the Tommy Novax. And I think that they're handling them really well.

So I'm like, okay, where are you going from here? I want more. Yeah, I just think they need more talent. And there's a number of ways they could do it, right? I think they make a lot of sense as a spot for Gensel, Reinhardt, even Marsha. So because I think they just need more offensive juice. After they dealt McDonough, not only that I carve out even more cap space, but that opened up, I think, a very valuable second pairing slot,

whether it's a Brady Shea or a Brandon Montour, who I think would look, you know, I'm skeptical of him as an investment long term because of his age because I think he showed a bit of signs of like regression and a bit of sloppiness this postseason in particular. But man, him in that brunette system, just kind of similarly what he does in Florida, just constantly moving north-south, particularly north, and attacking off the rush and carrying the puck. I think that would be phenomenal as a sort of second pair compliment to Romaniosi. Now, the trade market part is interesting, right? Whether it's sorrows or all these prospects that I just said led their HL success this year.

I think they're almost, I don't sure if they're in my number one spot, but they very well might be as a Mitch Martiner destination. Because I think his ability to create in the ways he does would be incredibly fascinating and kind of exactly what they need. And I'd love to see what they'd be able to get out of them. I guess the issue, and we can have a minor conversation here is, you know, he's got this 10.9 million or so deal this year. And then he's a UFA from his perspective. Like I imagine if Nashville makes that type of deal and pretty much any team that does with Toronto, I imagine they're going to want to feel like they can extend him. From Marner's perspective, obviously there's a number you could get to right now

where you would just sign because you're like, all right, this is fair value, and I'm going to take this money while I can. But his value is relatively low compared to its standard because of his contract status and because of the way he played in the postseason and those recurring issues. And so now from his perspective, I think he'd probably want to play this season out, see if you can have another 100 point season, or I guess his first one, because he fell just short at 97 to 99 previously, and then cash in next summer.

So I'm not sure if he'd even really want to sign an extension at this point if he were traded to a place like Nashville. I think Nashville would want to make sure that he would if they made a trade, but assuming those things fell into place, I think they would make, they'd be right atop my list as a trade partner for Toronto for Martiner. And so that's another potentially interesting way they could improve their team. Yeah, like if they're going to move an NHL piece out, say Sorrows or someone like that,

I think the extension has to come with it. If they only move draft picks, because they have draft picks at their disposal that not every team has, I think maybe it softens it a little bit for them. But I'd be really interested because I think that they could, they're a team that like, even if it's an overpayment, right, every team can afford a couple overpayments, but you have to be very careful. And since they don't have as, you know, as many contracts going as far out as what a partner deal would go, like could you just do 114 or 115 and feel pretty good about it?

Like I'd be really interested to see he feels like an ideal fit from them. in that he's a great puck mover, right? Like that is his strength. He's great a transport. This year was a little suspect compared to years past, but like he's greeted breaking out of his own zone and making those puck retrievals and transitioning into the offensive zone

and then whipping the puck around the offensive zone to set up his teammates. And that is exactly what Nashville is missing. They should be in the market for a good playmaker, whether it's Marner, whether it's Nikolai Eelers. So I think that would make a ton of sense. And their power play really needs the help too. Like they have the openings for it.

And I think that their team that even with a Marner, addition, they could still keep building around them, but they could give themselves two really good scoring lines. So I could definitely see the interest there. And it feels like Barry Trots is willing to go big if it makes sense and here it could. So it feels like a really interesting destination because if you're going to acquire Marner, the contenders, it'll be tricky to do. But those up-and-coming teams that are right on the borders, the Utah's, the Nashvilles of the world have a little bit more capability, I think, to make it work. Yeah, the financial flexibility. the prospects. And as you said, I think they have multiple picks in each of the first three rounds in each of the next two draft. So yeah, they could do all sorts of fun stuff there. And the idea of adding a legitimate star.

If you're the Predators is very intriguing. So I would like to see that. All right, Jana, let's take our break here. And then we come back. We'll jump right back into it and go through the rest of our most interesting teams to watch this off season. You're listening to the Hockey PEDEOCast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. All right. We're back here on the Hockeypedeo cast joined today by Shana Goldman. Shana, We're doing the most interesting teams to watch this off season. We've done the Oilers, the Panthers, the Red Wings, the Predators. I think you're next on the clock here. What's your next team that you have on your list? All right. We brought them up.

The universe is begging us to talk about the Toronto Maple Leafs. We're very Atlantic heavy, but listen, the Atlantic Division is so intriguing to me. Toronto Maple Leafs, they have improvements to make. There's the Marner situation, right? And say they decide to trade Marner this summer and break up the... their core. I don't know how many ways they can win this trade, right? Because it's not that you can't win a trade if you're trading the best player in it. And I think the Pierre-Luc Dubois trade is kind of a private example of that. But we've also seen Bradtree Living botch these and the Matthew

Kichuk trade really exemplifies that with Marner. The perfect partner, in my opinion, is Vegas, because you can go for Shay Theodore Plus. And I think you kill a couple birds with one stone. but that's a big if, right? Like Vegas, we know is going to go for the big names and go wild. That's what they do, right? They're always interesting. And Marner would be kind of perfect for them because of the Mark Stone situation. Like how much does he have left in the tank?

Because he, I know everyone can make the LTIR jokes, but you look at how he was playing in the postseason. And you're like, is he ever going to be fully healthy again with his back? Could someone like a Selkekeke, another Selky caliber winger kind of like take the strain off him? I'm like, I'm so interested by that. But even outside of Marner, you have some depth. depth questions and, you know, contracts interchange. You have Bertuzi and Domi. Do you keep them? Do you go for someone new? You

look at the defense. Can they get a right winger here? And, you know, it seemed like that would, I'm sorry, right-handed defensemen here. You look at the playoffs and they were plays where, you know, like the lefties and Joel Edmondson, if I remember there was a play, like he reaches out for the puck and he had to turn to make a play.

And it's like if he was just on his on the right, he was naturally on the right, it would have been like a one, two, three, done thing and it wouldn't have led to like dangerous chances. And I think that you don't have to be a perfect left, right, three, and three. But you need a couple right-handed defensemen in there. And it would be nice if Jake McCabe could play the right side too, I'm sure.

So I'm interested to see what they do there. There are options this year, like Matt Roy, like Sean Walker on the market. Where do they go from here? What do they do? And then the goaltending situation, like say that Joseph Wall extension that we heard about, Kevin Weeks reporting, what, like three to four million. So maybe they don't go for Soros anymore, but they go for, you know, stole ours is a perfect signing for them, I think, as a good one be, but if they can actually

get them and at the right cost. The other thing is, I wonder, I don't have the most faith in management, honestly. I don't think Bradtree Living did a great job in Calgary, and I didn't like what he did the last summer. I think he over-leveraged himself for depth players and sign these fourth-line guys to these long-term deals that doesn't make sense to me when, you know, their strategy is paying their core players a lot. And I think that's one that you can win with. Look at Florida Panthers. Look at the Colorado Avalanche. But you need to be on such a a great budget everywhere else and it feels like they're like missing it and then everyone looks at the big guys and the big name players and big contracts when that's not the problem

at all like let's not forget he signed john clingberg for what 4.5 million last year the other part is i wonder if they get too distracted by the heaviness of the team that they could want and the physicality of it which i think right it's important to be hard to play against someone like dakota joshua could be perfect for them but you can't get blinded by that and forget all of your strengths now you had craig bruevian to the mix a different coach so there's all these movies moving pieces with Toronto. There's always drama because it's the leaves. Love them or hate them. We're all paying attention to them. We can't stop talking about them. And they give us reason why in this summer I think is going to be another example of that, even if they don't trade Mariner,

but they still just fell out the roster around that. It's going to be, is that enough? Or are they moving in the right or wrong direction? Yeah. No, I think they have a lot of options. I think that Brad Tree Living has sort of telegraphed over the years, but last year in particular, what he wants from this roster and the direction he's going to go in. So it'll be very interesting to see what he does with that and particularly the Marner trade piece is the elephant in the room because that's sort of their best path towards genuinely kind of like fundamentally remaking the roster, right, in terms of using that to either cash in and get chips you can move elsewhere to get different players or like directly getting different players from Marner for what their team you're trading

with. I had them on my list. I also had the Vegas Golden Knights, you mentioned on my list, not necessarily because they have a ton of flexibility because they really don't. They're already up against the cap. But I think you literally cannot do this type of. of exercise without including them, just as a sign of respect for how constantly active and involved and lurking they've been in pretty much every available player of the past,

however many years. And this summer is no different, right? With Marsha, So, Stevenson and Martinez's UFAs, what's interesting about them is they're set at center, right? In fact, I'd argue they're overflowing because they've got Ico hurdle and Carlson. And then Nick Waugh is just way too overqualified and overpaid to be a fourth line center. but I also think using him as like a third line wing or whatever isn't utilizing his skill set of his skill set of potential.

And then they're set of defense where they have their top seven defensemen already signed. Now, one of those guys is Theodore, you mentioned. He's an expiring after this year. At $5.2 million, he makes way less than he'll probably make on his next deal and what he's actually worth as a contributor. So with that, and then I think Logan Thompson is interesting. You mentioned Kevin Weeks reporting the Joseph Wool extension or kind of the expectation for it. He also recently said that teams are inquiring heavily about both of Vegas's

goalies. And I think it makes sense because of their lack of term. And also the fact that you've got this guy in Logan Thompson where he's making sub 800K next year, which is incredibly appealing for a lot of teams who don't want to spend a bunch of money on their goalies. So Vegas can do a bunch of stuff and I'm sure they're exhausting every single possible option. But I would not be at all surprised to see them swing for the fences again with some monster trade that has us talking for the rest of the offseason. And so, yeah, I have them lumped in there on this list and deservedly so, I think. Yeah, you can't, you can't talk about interesting off seasons that big as. It's amazing. The reputation they've made for themselves in such a short time. The goaltending one is so

interesting, like you said, like Logan Thompson is super valuable. Then there's a durability concerns with Aden Hill as well. And rightfully so, right? Like, they made sense to me for an O-Mart traded if they could have swung that. And then you keep, and then you try to extend him, figure out what to do with Hill and, you know, just start moving the pieces around. The other part of it is the Shate Theater contract. With that Haniffin deal, you go, how are you going to afford that, honestly? You know, like, I could see them saying,

well, White Cloud can take on more, Nick Kay can take on more, and they're both cheaper options. I know, hey, only has a year left on his contract, too, but he's going to be an RFA, and they could probably get him pretty cheap, especially relative to what Shade Theodore might cost, because on another team, he might be a true number one, right? Or more of a top pair of thought.

Would I want to get rid of him, especially with Petranos being 34? No, absolutely not. like it might have to happen if you're Vegas. And then up front, it's amazing what they've done with their center depth when that was the one true flaw that they had, right? They had all the elements to be a contender pretty quickly, except for their center depth. It's like, okay, but Mark Stone, he can, you know, kind of check off both boxes and elevate Chandler Stevenson. And now you have guys that could be leaving March. So Stevenson, you look at it and you go, do they keep William Carlson at this point?

Is he one of their cap casualties incoming? They already did it to Riley Smith. It feels like they have no problem. it's not it we know they have no problem getting rid of the original misfits so that adds even more surprise to it um to their credit i think they've done a good job picking up like reclamation projects like brett howden like chandler stevenson so they might be able to you know figure out options on a budget to replace what they lose whether that is you know stevenson or march so or more but you know they've swung big that hurdle deal i'm so intrigued to see how he works out there because we only got a

little bit of a glimpse and you know, Mantha was a swing that didn't work, but they have the pieces to keep contending if they play this right, it's just figuring out who gets cut along the way. So it's always interesting. Like they're the soap opera and themselves and I love it. Well, and I think they'll benefit

from not only an extended offseason after losing in the first round but also hopefully just having chance now to integrate all those guys, right? Like hurdle was integrated on the fly. He clearly was rusty and they were using him at the wing towards the end of the postseason, I imagine he'll be more of a center option for them

with the benefit of a full off-season training camp, all that sort of stuff. Did you have the Carolina Hurricanes on your list? I actually didn't. I thought about them, but I did not have them. Okay, I have them on my list. And the reason why is, okay, first off, starting at the top, right,

after another premature playoff exit, we saw Don Waddell move to Columbus, handed over the reins to our guy, King nerd, Eric Tulski. Obviously, despite the, I, guess official title. I think we all know that like functionally he had a direct hand in their approach for years now and an outsized influence now. I think everything is still going to run through Rod Brindamore there in terms of how he uses players and what he wants the team to play like. We did see, you know,

a bit of a change under the hood last year in terms of the way they played particularly after the deadline when they acquired Jake Gensel. They were carrying the puck more. They were, I think, a bit more disciplined in terms of the types of shots they were looking for. It didn't lead to different results because they still wound up losing to Egers and the Rangers, but I did think it was a bit of a promising reflection that they're at least aware that I think they need to diversify a little bit. Now, this offseason, they have a ton of UFAs, similar next summer as well. So a lot of people, I think, view that as sort of risky or kind of like, oh, no, you don't want to lose these guys for nothing. I'd argue it's an opportunity for them because it maintains flexibility. It gives them

chance to keep adding and hopefully improving as opposed to kind of getting stagnant and stuck. And so I'm very curious to see what they do, whether it's on the blue line, because if they're going to lose both Pesci and Shea, that's a massive second pair in terms of usage and value to them that they need to replace. And then up front, we know about Marty Natchez, likely being moved at some point here. What they do with that, whether they bring back Gensel, whether if they lose Gensel, they try to replace that sort of a skill set by adding elsewhere. I think they've got a lot of options, the goalies as well.

This Carolina team has the assets and the flexibility to basically look wildly different if they want to. And I guess I'm curious to see whether they fully embrace that or whether they just sort of keep adding on the margins and look similar next year, obviously replacing some of the UFAs they're going to lose. Yeah, they're the rare contender that can afford it. And I'm so interested in so many levels. First of all, that Tulski Cook can't wait to see what he does.

no ones are in this more. Second, yeah, up front, the Martin Ayesha question, or who do you replace if you can't get Gensel? Because there's other players on the market who make sense for them, right? Bouchnavich could look great there. Eilers could look great there. They both make a ton of sense,

but you need someone with finishing talent. Do they go for a line? I feel like the canes are kind of the perfect landing spot for Linae. There's other teams that make sense. But they have the defensive security, the centers who are good playmakers and good defensively to kind of balance out the gaps in his game and can let him focus on a shot,

which in the last couple seasons we've seen him I don't want to say get away from shooting but add a little bit more dimension to his game which is a good thing but he's not you know scoring at the pace that we expect from him so that's another surprise the defense like we've known over the years they've been able

to interchange these pieces right it's who's playing with Brett Pesci and who's going to play with Slavin they went from DeAngelo Hamilton to DeAngelo to Burns and it's all worked out and Chatfield's shown that he's ready for more orlaw if you can keep on the third pair for another year but how is it going to look without an entire second pair if you let both of them walk?

Like that's a huge change. Can you just keep plugging players into the system if you make that massive of a change? And then what do you do and goal? Are you done with Frederick Anderson in the last year of his contract? Do you think it's time to move on? Could they let Kochekoff run as the 1A and go from, I don't know, Philip Gustafson is the 1B? Like, I'm really wondering just how different they're going to look to avoid the same results

that they have year after year because there's so much promise there and so much talent. and all that flexibility that it really makes for an exciting summer. Yeah. Listen, I'm not in the reporter business. I'll leave that to others. I am pretty sure they poked around John Gibson so far already. I like that.

Yeah, I think they did. I think they ultimately decided not to. We'll see, though, the summer off season is just the beginning, even though we have seen a bunch of goalies already move. It makes sense. Listen, they have Kachkov add a good value. Anderson for one more year, as you said,

based on the way the past couple years have gone, I would not feel comfortable with that. And so I'm not in the business of like overpaying or overvaluing goal-tending, but if you could add someone with a slightly more upside that's also a bit more consistent, I'd be intrigued by that. I think Carolina can do all sorts of stuff.

I know that you wrote recently about Marty Natchez in terms of like fits and kind of what he brings to the table and where potential spots for him to go. Is there a particular place around the league that you think makes the most sense from not only needing him, but also being able to like immediately put him in a position to either get the most out of him or like retrieve some of this untapped potential that we've seen in Carolina, but hasn't really been able to like consistently be on the forefront every single night for a full year.

Yeah, it's so interesting. I think there's so many teams that can be in on him because there's so much potential there and the intrigue of like, can he shake it at center? With that in mind, I keep looking at Toronto and I'm like, imagine he could actually play two C and you can shift to various of the wing. If not, he's the right wing. I think he'd be pretty perfect for Nashville, and I think really in the bounds of what they're trying to do,

because he's a young up-and-coming player, and I think his age ring makes sense, and I think he brings a lot of what they need, too. I also like the Rangers for him. I think that they need help on the right wing, and I feel like he's kind of a great option to have, like, does he have some defensive gaps in his game? Sure, who among us doesn't,

but like think of him on a line with Mika Zabanajad. If he's helping their rush game a little bit and facilitating plays, which is exactly what they need. I think his skating is such an asset, but like there are so many teams that should be in on him. It's kind of wild. When you go through the trade destinations, normally it's like five teams and seven teams. And I think we landed on 11 teams there because there were just so many options. You mentioned the Rangers there.

I was thinking, you know, we've heard the potential of maybe like nature's going to even Winnipeg because if they could sign them long term and some sort of an Euler swap there. I was thinking about as I am prone to do thinking of Euler's landing spots and because it seems like he's going to be moved as well. I thought the Rangers were like, I think he's made in a lab for them, not necessarily as a right winger, but as someone who can just carry the puck, be more dynamic off the rush,

take some of that workload off of the Panarin Lafranierre combination and potentially throw a lifeline to Zabinajad at 515 as well. We saw the Roslovich, even though he's a flawed flare, at least helped a little bit in that regard. This would be a supercharged version of that. I know he only has one year left and he's approaching 30 and a guy with speed at that age.

it's like how much do you commit to that long term? But man, for a team that has Stanley Cup aspirations again, he would be an unbelievable ad for them. And I think he's on the top of the list for that. So I had the Jets on my list as well here in terms of interesting teams. Not too much nuance there, but I'm curious to see what they do with that and all the Rutger McGroherty rumors and Colper Fetty as an RFA,

whether he wants to sign their long term or whether he's as disgruntled as has been kind of reported. They're going to do all sorts of stuff. We've got room for one more team here. Is there anyone on your list? that you feel like we need to get to that we haven't gotten to yet? Yeah, let's talk about Utah. Utah is so interesting to me, right?

Like for years, Arizona's had this cap space and all the assets to make move, but their owners were far too cheap to make that happen and preferred to have LTIR deals that insurance picked up the tab on. So new team, new vibe. It feels like they're really committed to investing in the on-ice product. And I remember seeing a line about Smith, willing to kind of take that Vegas approach

and he liked what the Golden Knights did. I have to find it was like over a month ago, but I keep looking at it going, hmm, like do you really want to turn this around quickly and go Vegas? Like that is interesting because they have trade assets. And hey, they could be a landing spot for a Martin H's. And they could really use someone like that, right? They don't have a ton of, you know, pop in their lineup.

You're getting the up and coming pop with Cooley, but I would want another winger who brings it. That defense, you have three, he has your defenseman under contract. You have three RFAs. And I think, you know, Mosevalamaki and Dersey are all worth keeping around. But like, could they be the team that adds a mentor and shakes things up? I could see Sean Walker making sense for them.

I could see them trading for Dante Fabro. And I think that could make sense for their third pair. Brady Shea could lay in there. There's so many different questions. And then even in net, I think that they could even go bigger if they wanted to. I could see them trading of Amalka and making, like, a Toronto makes sense for him as their one, being them bringing someone else because they have two UFAs next year as well. There's so many different pieces.

And I think that there is a vision with like a kid line there. You know, Machelli and Gunther and Hayton could be really good as like a second or third line. But there's all these pieces you could do around them to just make this click. So I'm so interested by them. And like, you know, guys like Josh Stone are going to be valuable. And Lawson Krause, whether it's there somewhere else. Like I feel like he could be a huge trade chip if Utah wanted him to be too because he's the kind of guy. I feel like teams are going to jump at.

So all of it and more, I'm pumped to see what they do. That's a great answer because they honestly, upon reflection, are probably the most interesting team in the league this offseason because they're the most asset rich, right? You mentioned all the young players, but they have 40 million in cap space. They don't have a single NHL defense funder contract, as you said. And they have the sixth overall pick. And then they have 10 second rounders over the next three years. And then another seven third rounders over the next three years. So they can really facilitate any type of transaction they want.

They'll surely be motivated to do so. they have an aggressive new ownership. They're in a new market. I think they're going to want to make a splash that sort of gives them a selling point to attract new fans and give people a reason to get excited about this Utah hockey club heading into next year. And so I'm very curious to see what route they go. It'll be also fascinating from like Bill Armstrong's perspective, right?

After being in this situation where for years you're essentially like not allowed to spend any money, you're just hoarding future assets and you're being told to run this operation to turn away to now, essentially. on essentially being given not only a clean slate, but kind of the green light, I imagine, to like spend and add and be more aggressive. And so it'll be fascinating to see what they do. And I already love that young forward nucleus. If they can keep adding to it, it should be a really fun team to watch. So that's a really good shout there to close out today's show. All right, Shana, I'll let you plug some stuff here on the way out because I know you've been

very busy in preparing for this off season and this week in particular, which should be a very busy one in the NHL. Plug some stuff. Let the listeners know what you've been working on and where they can check you out. I've had trade deadline. Trade deadline. Oh my God. Trade stories. Um, I've had offseason stuff like we are very quickly shifting to off season mode. It's wild. If you want to read about colleys or Mitch Marner or, um, the trade board, go read stuff at the athletic. I had that all covered in signing grades. You'll find all chaotic things like thrown together on Twitter. If you want to follow along, like enjoy. Let's let's like enjoy the ride before we can all take a breath. Yes. It should be a busy week and a fun one. It's obviously.

obviously very perilous to be putting out content this time of year because it could be outdated in the Blakeman eyes. Hopefully people can listen to this, enjoy it before anything happens in terms of trades. We'll be back soon with plenty more. We'll see if anything happens over the next couple of days, certainly after the draft to recap that and get ready for free agency here on the PDOCAST. So thank you for listening to us. Check out all of Shayna's work. And we'll be back soon with plenty more of the Hockey PEOcast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.