The Hockey PDOcast - Nate Mack's Run, The LOC Fan Club, and The Avs 2nd Line Center

Episode Date: January 26, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Meghan Angley and AJ Haefele to talk about what's fueling Nathan MacKinnon's remarkable season, how much the Avalanche are relying on their top players, and what the market for a second line center looks like. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEOCast. My name's Dimitri Filipovich. And joining me is my buddy Megan, what's going on? Not too much. How are you? I'm good. It's good to finally have you on the show. And we need to do so for a while now. So I'm happy that we can make that happen. And also joining us is your teammate at DNVR Sports and my pal, AJ hatefully. AJ, what's going on, bud? What's up, buddy?

Uh, not much. You know, just watch. the, uh, watch the abs game last night and it was a pretty entertaining one, you know, for some behind the scenes, uh, in terms of how the sausage is made for the listeners, generally schedule these shows, uh, been in advance to give the guest time to get ready and make a fit in their calendar as well. And so whenever you do that, you never know what's going to happen in the games leading up to it, right? Sometimes there's injuries, sometimes keep players, have poor performances, go through, um, you know, cold spells. The team just gets pummeled, and then all of a sudden, everything you plan to talk about just gets thrown out the window. In this

case, I was watching the game last night against the Capitals, and I was like, all right, thankfully a lot of what I had planned here in terms of focusing on Nathan McKinn and his MVP campaign and all that stuff only gets reinforced. So it's nice that that's the case. Megan, I want to start with you. You were at the game last night, right? Yes. Okay. So I want to ask you, because just being there live for these performances, I'm kind of curious if at this point, you know, McKinnon has stacked together enough of these now this season in particular where it's almost becoming routine for him. And I guess I'm kind of curious just watching it live if it's becoming one of those things where it's almost the norm to the point where you become desensitized

a little bit and you just come to expect it and it's almost not as impressive because of that in an unfair way or if it's still one of those things where every time he has these sort of superhuman dominant individual performances, you still sort of take a step back and kind of marvel at the feet your witnessing live. First and foremost, it is always special. to see Nation McKinnon pull off these types of performances. And with that recognition in the back of my mind, ever since he said that the game has slowed down for him this season back around December, I was frightened of him.

And so when these games happen, it doesn't come as a surprise. It's still special to watch, but it's also unsurprising. For him to say that the game has slowed down and the mental clarity is clearer than ever the way that he's seeing the ice right now on the heels of, 100 plus point season. McKinnon is just hitting his stride, and we're looking at each other in the press box after that third goal in the second period. Like, he can get four inside this period.

He can do it right now. It's just a matter of if and when. And then, of course, it comes a little bit later in the game. But it's not really surprising to people who watch him night in and night out, but also see him up close even in a practice setting because of how hard he works, how dialed in he is. It's a little bit intense, but those are the kinds of results that it yields. Yeah, I always say this about Connor McDavid, but the reason why I brought that up was he almost

does it in such a fluid, kind of like effortless manner where he almost just coasts, beats everyone to the net and scores. And after seeing it enough times, it almost just becomes second nature and you come to expect it. And it's like, all right, that's cool. And that would be the best goal. Pretty much anyone else on planet Earth has scored. But for him, I've seen him do it 25 times already.

already. So it just kind of becomes the latest and the list of feats like that. Whereas I think maybe what works in McKinnon's favor here in terms of it's still registering on whatever scale as impressive is like kind of the violent nature he does it in a way, right? Like all the jokes about him being angry at the ice and stuff like that. And I've seen a lot of people comparing him to Isaiah Pacheco as the running back for the chiefs now as someone who also runs very angry when he plays. I think you almost like out just watching it at home, I feel like you have to brace for impact at times when he gets his feet moving.

And so in that way, it does almost feel more unique, I guess, than when you see a guy like McDavid just fluidly coasting up the ice. It's absolutely true. You know, it's why when he cracks a smile as the hats are raining onto the ice, it's a moment worth noticing because he doesn't even necessarily celebrate his wins. To hear him talking about now having the points league ahead of Kutrab after Kuturav's 4.9, he is talking about how it doesn't really hold significance. It's pretty matter of fact, right?

That's just 82 points in 48 games. That's what it means to him. And to hear them chanting MVP at the end of the game, he's heard those chants before, so it doesn't really mean much to him. And I think that's sort of how he plays to hockey too. It's very unassuming, even though everyone around him knows this is what he's capable of.

AJ, I want to loop you in here. I don't, I agree with that. And I also think, you know, he's, he's very humble, certainly. It's like a very hockey player mentality to say that. But after all the, like, I've gotten a talk with Daryl Belvery, his trainer every week this season for the show we do together. And just getting a bit of an insight in terms of like the personal motivation for not only McKinnon, but a lot of the guys who works with who are the top players in the game. I don't think it's like a selfish thing by any means because all these guys, you know, they realize that they're going to be measured on team success and competing for Stanley Cups at all. all that, but also once you get to this certain elite tier of superstard, you know, superstardom, you kind of, you measure yourself against those peers that are in that same stratosphere as you, and you kind of like have these certain checkpoints, whether it's the Rock or a Sharre or the heart or any number of things or, you know, just scoring a bunch of points. You kind of use that as a barometer for your standing with those guys. And so I could see that being as big of a driver as much as he might want to downplay it in his humble nature. I do think, like, getting into this

one-on-one battle, basically with Kucharov here now, could lead some pretty, pretty intense fireworks down the stretch if both guys keep going shot for shot the way they have in the past couple weeks. Yeah, and with McKinnon, I don't even know that I would say that it's like a humble nature so much as it is, like, almost an apathy for regular season accomplishments. It's more of a, did we win the game, or are we going to win the Stanley Cup? Like, that's what he's here for. And it's something that Megan and I even talked about during training camp when we were there, watching the abs, just getting onto the ice that first day.

You can see that Nathan McKinnon was on a completely different level than normal. There was no ramp up period. He walked in at 100. And he has been trying to drag all of it. of the moving parts of the avalanche with him at that level, at that peak performance level. And it's almost like, it's almost like playoff Nathan McKinnon from that first round series against Seattle last year just never stopped. He never turned off. And it might end up being, it might end up being one of those blessing and disguises for the abs where they didn't want to

lose in the first round last year, obviously. That was not part of the plan. The team just sort of fell apart as the season went on, had band-aids on it walking into that series, and then Nathan McKinnon almost got them to the second round. Not entirely by himself. He has a couple of pretty good running mates, but pretty close to by himself. And it almost feels like the first round loss amped him up even more. And we saw him after the Vegas playoff loss. He went into a different headspace for that that mission that they were on in 22. And he was good that year, obviously, at 88 points and 65 games. That's a pretty good season.

Like, he's happy with that, right? Does not win the cons smite is not, it kind of, kind of has to share that spotlight with Kilmacar a little bit. This year, it's him. it's it's it's since the basically the 11th game of the season it's been him he's he's nearly two points per game since the 11th game of the season it he's just a he's on a totally different level from what we've ever seen and that headspace that he's in I think is he's living he's

living in a world of he's such a competitive guy that yeah he can use the kuturov one one v one and Hella Buck wherever he is in that heart race as well. He can use all of that as a knightly motivation to keep him interested, to keep him focused on the task at hand. But I think this is all just a means to an end. This is all just, we're trying to get through 82 games. We're trying to, we've got some goals that we want to. They want to win a division.

They're unbelievable at ball arena this year. So they want home ice, obviously. You want to make all roads go through. through Colorado and you want to make all roads go through Nathan McKinnon, who Connor McDavid is obviously spectacular, but if that guy has to come through Colorado again, right now anyway, you have to feel like the ads have problems on that team,

but are you really going to bet against Nathan McKinnon in the playoffs after what he's doing right now? So I think that there's a, there's just a mentality that is jumping out from him that is completely different from anything we've seen from him before. Megan, and listen to to an AJ talk about that generally, and it makes a lot of sense. This team won the cup two years ago, right? I'm sure they're motivated by an early playoff defeat last year and having a bit of a longer

offseason than usual refueling themselves. But generally when teams enter this stage of their organizational cycle and especially superstars getting into this like 27, 28 year old range, you think of it as the means to an end being, all right, I'm going to pace myself through the regular season and try to not take some nights off, But, you know, when it's not necessary, maybe dial it back a bit, give the front seat and give the car keys to others. And instead, we've sort of seen McKinnon kind of go the other way. And maybe it's true to form based on all the intensity and everything we've come to know and love about him. But it seems like he's gone the opposite extreme, I guess, in terms of getting them there to the finish line, which is like the end of the regular season.

There's very little conservation for McKinnon because of his intensity. It just sort of comes in extremes. And so in hearing him talk about the mental clarity, the game slowing down, he also addressed even more things that he's doing away from the ice that have had benefits to his game this year. And so I think part of it is the natural result of him incorporating things away from the ice and his recovery that are just successful for him this season. And it can't really be contained because he's obviously trying hard, but I don't think he's even trying his hardest. I think that's what makes this regular season play a little bit. frightening for a playoff perspective, just because there is a chip on his shoulder from the

sense of a wasted season, 111 points, Miko Ranton and 55 goals out in the first round. That's a really difficult pill to swallow. And so I think bigger picture beyond just McKinnon's individual success, like AJ is saying, there is something that all of this team has been eyeing down since October, because there were circumstances that just started to stack atop each other last year. that they're trying to fight their way through this one. And I think that's exactly what's going on with Anthony McKinnon this year. So I've got to be honest, I was telling AJ this before we started recording. I kind of tricked the two of you into coming on here under the guise of

having a deep conversation about the avalanche because I mostly just wanted an audience to rattle off as many Nathan McKinnon stats I could get through in this hour. And so we'll see how far I can go. So please, just oblige me for a minute here at least and let me cook a little bit. 82 points in 48 games, including 43 at 5-1-5, which is, I believe, second place is 35 right now. On an 82-game pace of 51 goals, 89 assists, 380 shots on goal, and 700 shot attempts. He's third in the league in rush chances, third in slot passes, second in offensive zone possession time, at home, 24 games, point in every single one of them, 20 goals and 51 points in those 24 games. started the season with a very modest nine points and ten games, which would be great for a lot of players. But for him was not up to what he's done most recently, which is 38 games, points in 36 of

them. And he followed up a 19 game point streak ending with the 12 gamer he's currently on. And this one might be my favorite. So NHL Edge, I hope these are updated stats. They almost seem fake. So I might have to source them with other companies and see if it actually checks out. But 20 plus mile prower bursts of skating this season. Nathan McKinnon has 437 of them. Second is Braden Point with 286. And then you go to McDavid-25, Rupa Hins-236 to just show you how often he is accelerating at that level. There's so many ways you could go by this. I think my one final point here, and then I'll let either of you jump in in terms of what stands out there or what you think is the most impressive of the bunch is Dom Lus Chishin tweeted out his player card today.

showing McKinnon's salary, which is $12.6 million, his cap hit this year is the league high until Matthews his deal kicks in next year. And he still has his market value at around $17 million based on his production this season, just to show you what a value he's still been, even with the pay raise kicking in. And that's obviously not accounting for all the off-ice stuff and intangibles and all that good stuff from a leadership perspective, but just purely on production how valuable he's been this year and what that means for this Aves team. So I don't know, put all that together. And it's, oh, I know McDavid's coming on strong here. And obviously Kuturov, um, the team around him has really not been very good this year and he's carrying

them every single night. But man, just the volume and, and the dominance that I just cited there. It really feels like this is a pretty unassailable resume for McKinnon through, through nearly 50 games now. I, I went back and counted last night just because I was curious, but, uh, there had been 2,174 Avalanche games, but without a four-goal game. That's all of Avalanche history until this season, until Nathan McKinnon had a four-gold game against the Ottawa Senators in Denver a couple weeks ago. He now has two four-goal games and 16 games.

And there have been some pretty good players to play in Denver over the last 25 years. So I thought that that was a fun thing that I was able to dig up. up last night just about the magnitude of the run that he's on right now, just an all-time heater in Avalanche history. Well, and Megan, you mentioned that in the press box you're like, all right, a fourth goal is coming here and eventually got it after the fact. There were a couple times they even mentioned in the broadcast where he might have been even a bit too unselfish in terms of passing up good shooting opportunities to try and set the table

for Randon and Macar and others. And so just the quality of looks that he's constantly fighting himself in. even the couple goals he scored, it was like on the power play, McCar, Rent, and threading the needle, looking for him, really setting the table for him, it feels like it's almost, it's a pick your poison type of thing, but it feels like if he decides that he wants to just go on this goal scoring binge that he's been on recently, it's a pretty sustainable thing in terms of what the guys around him are able to get him the puck to it, basically. Yeah, you know, it's funny too in talking about jumping back onto the league,

lead in points, he immediately points his teammates and support. And not mentioned yet in this conversation, but I assume is coming soon is the ascension of Jonathan Duran alongside him and the way of those two obviously have the familiarity with one another. And I don't necessarily attribute Nathan McKinn's success to Jonathan Druan. But I think that there is some joy in playing alongside him because of the playmaking capability and upside that Drowan brought that is finally being realized in Colorado. And I think it's because Juan Druan's digging into his game and taking care of things away from the puck is needed to play in Colorado. But he's also, I don't know, there's just, there's less pressure with the contract that he took in Colorado that, one, he was sometimes scratched

on fourth line before he was elevated to the top six opportunity that he has today. So it wasn't without challenges. And I think that McKinnon specifically wanted that to be his teammate going into this and worked hard with him to get him there and has found joy in playing hockey there. Because you look to in the stats you mentioned the burst of speed stands out to me because of how it seems like there are points in a game where McKinnon just feels a little bit bored and just wants to feast off the rush and he's looking for it. And that's oftentimes where those burst of speed translate to goal scoring. It's interesting to see to the number of different ways he's scoring this year because that's oftentimes Nathan McKinnon's ML. Is that transatlantic

that transition game, but he's scoring in a lot of different ways that I think this might be a hot take, but I think there is a sense of McKinnon feeling bored at times this season and just trying different things, including what I like is not retiring things like his one-timer that famously doesn't always work on PP1 and just going for it again. And it has successful results. I think he's just having a little bit of fun because there are points where he feels stuff a bit forward. Well, it doesn't always work, but when it does, it's pretty cool. And so I'm all for him not retiring it and dusting it off as often as he can that way. Let's talk a little bit of a Drew and then. He's got 19 points in his past 20 games. Obviously, the usage there, particularly

since Valenatushkin went into a player assistance program and he really got the full-time roletop there and became one of three forwards, essentially, that they really just trusted with maximum usage, has really elevated. Now, At the start of the year, I thought, I'm not sure how much of this was just growing pains or adjustment or trying to recalibrate to the way the avalanchea, which is different than his previous stop, certainly. But, you know, they had a bit of success in terms of the score sheet, obviously just because of how good McKinnon and Randiner are themselves and they're going to get points regardless. But I thought that he didn't look out of place playing with them, but maybe a little too deferential or a little like too, not slow, just like couldn't really keep up with sort of the quickness. in terms of how they like to pass the puck and move around in the offensive zone in particular.

And it feels like, you know, they obviously separated them. They tried some different combinations and now putting them back together. It feels like it looks like it makes a lot more sense. When you watch him with them, it feels like he's able to sort of riff on that wavelength that they do because obviously it's quite a luxury to get to play with two players of that caliber. But it also comes with a lot of, you know, like obligations

and necessities in terms of certain things that you're going to be required and expected to do to fit in with them and just doing that off the hop without any previous experience doing so or at least with McKinnett and not doing so in a long time, makes sense that it would take some time to get there. But it feels like there has been, you know, quite a noticeable optic in terms of comfort, I guess, with those three since they put them back together the second time. It seems like a lot of Jureen's comfort and confidence was on the rise when the hard work was rewarded with extra opportunity from Benar. He was spending a lot of time on the second unit, gets that promotion to the top unit, of course, with some

personnel out. But he sees that opportunity, and I think what they were able to do on the powerplate and when that started to convert, it recreated what they needed to be doing five on five. And I think that's where it translated a lot for him because previously he hasn't been so much of a net front presence. They really missed that whenever Balna Chuschen's out, whenever Lekin's out, and obviously no Landis Gogh. Duran wasn't really that guy, but he kind of needed to become that. And I think that is translated to his play five-on-five, too. And so he's doing things a little bit differently in the offensive zone from what he ordinarily would have done and still able to lean into the playmaking, but also defensively. Like you mentioned, structurally, he came from systems

that oftentimes contained, and here in Colorado, it can be a bit more man-on-man and collapsing. And so there's sometimes support that's coming his way, but he also has to be very engaged in his man. And that's where at both sides of the ice, the engagement, I think, has come for Joanne so much more through this point. It's not a perfect defensive game, but that's where you see him in the offensive zone engaged on the forecheck. And then the other way, he is committed to his man and he has natural speed that really suits both ends of the ice and the way that the avalanche wants to play. AJ, if this is going to, you know, be a long-term fix for the rest of the season at least. And you can just rely on him being the third member of this

line and then obviously hopefully getting Valentusian back and intertukin like an in-heumback. last night, I think that unlocks so many different possibilities for them because I think we know that when healthy, Nchuschkin and Lackamin are, regardless of any three of us, could essentially play with them. And I feel like we're going to dominate territory at 5-1-5 because those two are so good in terms of puck retrievals and just forcing you into mistakes. And so if they can go about that and not have to use one of those guys on the top line and instead have Drew and Riff with them, all of a sudden, I think that makes this forward group. And we're going to talk more about the secondary scoring and about a need for a second line center, but it makes that fix in terms of

configuration a lot easier for Jared Bednar if they can actually go along with this top line for the rest of the season. Yeah, I mean, Drewen is, as Mencken was talking about his evolution into what I call an adult, you know, very responsible, you know, does a lot of the little things. That has always been a necessity to play alongside McKinnon and Ranton. But that evolution, you add that next to the way that bound the Chuskin and Arturi Lacken and play the game. And if the avalanche get very, very lucky, Gabe Landisog, sometime in the postseason as well. You're talking about a forward core that is an absolute problem, assuming that second line center spot gets addressed. But it's, it's, it.

It really is a varied group of skill, speed, size, and try hard. At times this year, there have been, you know, people will look at the avalanche forward core and say, oh, you know, it's just not that hard to play against. It's not that gritty. It's not whatever, whatever. But we haven't really seen it. You know, Arturio Lechidim played in his 13th game last night. We haven't really gotten to see this group actually gel as kind of,

as kind of built as they were intended. You know, they have found some magic with their third line. They have found magic with their first line. They've got the pieces for two-thirds of their second line. They are right there on the cusp of being a real handful in terms of depth on that forward core, but then also having a guy like a Nathan McKinnon. And, oh, Miko Ranton is also, what, fifth in scoring today? we wake up and he's top five in the NHL and scoring

and kind of kind of the forgotten man here he's not even going to the All-Star game. So, you know, you're talking about they have that high-end talent to go with a decent amount of depth if the pieces can all continue to come together and actually gel in the way that they were built to. It's part of this is out of necessity

just because of those. absences you mentioned, and I think part of it is also, you know, they're playing so well, so I think it's a lot easier to just keep basically sending them out there every other ship. Megan, I'm kind of curious if, if Jared Benner has talked about this or how you feel the organization feels about it, because obviously this is a team that we've just discussed, you know, has Stanley Cup aspirations, is also trying to manage this regular season and get home ice and finish as good of a record as they can. I don't think they would ideally want to be playing these guys as much as they have at times. Like certainly the game against Boston,

I think about a lot because essentially they use five guys for like 30 minutes and no one else really played at all. And it was really cool. And as a viewer, I love it because if I'm watching them play, I'd rather see those guys on the ice than anyone else. And so the more they play, the better for us. But just in terms of a long-term approach, it's probably not ideal in game 42 or 43 of the regular season to be sending them out there as much as much as they are acknowledging that a lot of it is on the power play that are probably less taxing minutes. And someone like Nathan McKinnon is an absolute fitness freak and can probably play 60 minutes if he wants to.

But I imagine like there's this organizational, I guess, sort of struggle or push and pull between trying to find the right usage to satisfy all of these requirements. It's absolutely important. Kail McCarr, his usage has always been high. and he starts the year with a lingering lower body injury that has just kind of stayed and troubled him at points throughout this year. It's the new normal for him. So you really have to take into consideration than his workload. Nathan McKinnon, a lot of the reasons he couldn't crack his 100-point season was because of hell.

He missed time. And even last year he's able to do it, but he misses games to get there. I don't want to jinx anything and talking about it, but you do have to look at the workload. And something that hasn't aged completely well is Jared Bednar addressing, writing the top stars kind of heavily and talking about, I'll play Valnetushkin 30 minutes if I have to. Now Valenchishkan isn't an option to them just to the indefinite future, right? The hope is that he will be one day. And these are things he needs to take into consideration because right now they're not rolling

with four lines. That fourth line is an island of misfit boys that plays maybe six minutes a night if they're lucky. that just isn't the way it has to be. There is a future, even with Arturielacken coming back, that is not close to what the third line is going to look like, even a few weeks from now. It's interesting, he didn't hate it with Cagliano and Johansson,

but you're kidding yourself if you think Arturial Ackinen stays on the third line permanently. And that just makes then the distribution of minutes a little bit more balanced. Even seeing Lackinen get on the PKK immediately in his first game back since I, October is a welcome relief. That's not necessarily minnesota McKinnon's eating up, but those are where can that alleviate some of the load for Abanachushkin when he returns? You know, can that be the defensive forward on the PK? And all of this, I think, gets alleviated in a couple weeks time, but there's still more work to do, particularly in the forward group. And this is also on the defensive side where Bowen Byram has the opportunity to alleviate some of that workload. I think there's natural solutions

in place in time, but there's also a little bit of work to do on the forward side of things to make this even more balanced because I don't think it's sustainable over a seven-game series round after round after round. Certainly. Okay, we're going to talk about then those adjustments and things that we can look forward to. After the break, we're going to take our break here, and then when we come back, we'll pick things back up with Megan and AJ. You're listening to the HockeyPedio guest streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.

All right, we're back here in the Hockey Pudio cast with Megan Angley and AJ Hathley. We are talking about the Colorado Avalanche. So we spent a lot of time before the break talking about the top line, McKinnon, Ranton, and how Drew Ans fit into that. Let's talk about a little about the secondary scoring. And I'm going to put a pin in the second line center conversation in the trade headline market because I think that's something listeners are very interested in. But I first want to talk about this Logan O'Connor, Ross Colton, Miles Woodline, because if I have an opportunity to talk about L. see on this podcast. I'm going to take full advantage. People who have listened to the show for a while now know that he's been one of my faves for a while. This year, he's already got a career

high 11 goals so far with him on the ice. They're up 28 to 18. I always, the two of you, I always make this joke about how if I'm just casually watching an abs game, like let's say I'm watching another game on my laptop, I've got the abs on my TV, I look up, I see a right-handed shot in an abs jersey with a number two something on the back. I'm watching. I'm watching a lot. I'm I'm like, oh, there it goes, Nathan McKinn. And then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, that was actually Logan O'Connor. And I think that's the best compliment I can give Logan O'Connor, certainly, because that's a pretty cool comparison to make.

Now, the finishing sometimes in the past, particularly on the penalty kill, has not been what you'd expect from Nathan McKinn when he's taking those rushes. But still, it looks just as cool. And so he's having a phenomenal season. Obviously been a very useful and valuable player for his team in not even secondary, maybe a tertiary role in the past, but this year he's really stepped up with this opportunity and taken full advantage and it's cool to see him be rewarded for it. I have to let Megan talk about it. That's a deem pioneer. So this is all Megan.

We were classmates. And I have always thought so highly of Logan O'Connor. I'm going to try to make it quick, though. The thing about Logan O'Connor, he's so versatile, right? You look at how he makes other players around him better in the sense. of Alex Newhook and Andrew Cagliano. Like, we really liked Alex Newhook's game when he played on a line with hard workers like Cagliano and O'Connor. This year, I think what has worked so much to the advantage of O'Connor is playing alongside players who compliment him and make him better.

And I think that it was a match made in heaven, maybe a little bit unexpectedly. Like, I penciled O.C. as the third-line wing on that line with Colton and Wood with a question mark beside it because Tamash Tatar was also potentially going to be there. But then Logan O'Connor just fit their style so well. They're all pretty hard workers. They all have the speed. And Logan O'Connor, I asked him about the scoring uptick specifically.

And he talked about how oftentimes shooters will try to change the way they shoot, be more deceptive, and look to get crease your goals around the net. And it's something that he's probably tried to do in years past and finish just hasn't been there. But he's playing on a line where all he used to be is Logan O'Connor. and there are other players that because of how hard they work on the forecheck and retrieving pucks, they're getting more puck touches. I look at JT. Comfer's contract year, career year. When he was elevated an opportunity, the points came in.

I think that the talent and skill set alongside O'Connor has also allowed him to elevate his game because he's getting more minutes, he's getting better ice, and he has talented linemates that really complement the way he likes to play. See, I messed us up. This is bad hosting by me. We really should have led the show with this, and instead, you know, Nathan McKinnon, whatever. He's having an okay year. But really, it's Logan O'Connor and the people are listening to this podcast for the three of them on that line, I think, they've played 200 minutes so far at 515. They're winning the goals.

But I think what they're doing territorially, as you mentioned in terms of shots, hiding your chance to expected goals is so valuable in light of how they're being used, right? Where Jared Benner is relying on them to be out there for a lot of defensive zone draws, a lot of important situations. minutes, and that then is preying up the top line, the feast in the offensive zone, where they're doing a lot of the table setting and hard work to get them there. And then those guys can go out for the offensive zone draws and cook the way they do. And so, AJ, I let you jump in here on Logan O'Connor because I think Megan's made it pretty clear how she feels about it. But that line, we think of them, I guess, as the third line.

And I think, you know, in a best case scenario, Etuchin comes back, Lickin's Healthy, they add a legitimate top six center and then that becomes a second line and they really can be this sort of grind her third line. But in terms of usage they have been their second line essentially this season and they've lived up to every bit of what Jared Benner

has asked from them. Yeah, I think there was a game, though, they were in Boston a couple of games ago. Did not go great for the out of the launch. They lose that game, but I thought that that was a really good example of where that, that

Wood-C-L-C line has gotten in Jared Bedner's eyes. Yes, they are getting used as a de facto second line, but not just in minutes, but they went head-to-head against Boston's second line of their own. And it was Colorado's only line that night to break even in shot metrics. So you're talking about a line that ideally when the postseason opens up, that's their third line. but they will have built the trust already that they might be able to, whatever the composition of that second line ends up being,

this is a line that becomes either a major weapon for Jared Bedner in the postseason in that it has the ability to dominate third lines, fourth lines of opposing teams, but can also hold water against a first or second line of opposing teams and then free up Nathan McKinnon to go crazy on somebody else's debt. And I think that is such a, that, that's going to be such a weapon for the avalanche. And a major difference between this year's team and last year's team. Last year's team, it was three lines, especially at the end of the year when they lost to Seattle in that, in that series.

It was waiting for Nathan McKinnon to get back out on the ice. And J.T. Comfer had the career year. it was great, it was whatever. We saw him when push came to shove and he had to thrive a line, he had to be the centerpiece of a second line, he couldn't do it. And that's a big ask in a postseason series.

Obviously, it's not JT Confer's fault. But it was definitely a reason why the ads were comfortable just saying, hey, we're not going to pay for that. And for them to be able to get these kinds of contributions right now out of this de facto second line of theirs. It's really impressive and honestly you do look at Logan O'Connor and you say, and for my money, he's the X Factor there.

Yeah, he's not as offensively talented as a Miles Wood or Ross Colton in particular. But he's the glue guy because you know who else also looked really good at the start of the year? Andrew Cogliato and Frederick Oliveson when Logan O'Connor was their right wing. They were one of the best fourth lines in the NHL. Logan O'Connor gets moved up next to Wood and Colton. And now that's one of the best third lines in the league. And now, and you're talking about, oh, is Frederick Coloss and even going to be Colorado's fourth line center at the start of the postseason? I don't think he is.

So he has become, LLC has replaced Comfer as Bedner's kind of security blanket player of, I have a problem. I have an issue in my lineup. I need somebody that I trust to go and fix it. And the answer has become Logan O'Connor. And offensively, he's not going to be as good as some of the other guys that the abs have available to him. But he's having a career here, and he's driving a ton of play. And defensively, he's always been a spectacular defensive wing.

That aspect is his role has increased the season. That aspect of his game has maintained throughout. So you are talking about, I think, one of those really underrated glue guys, one of those X factors, come a postseason series. When there are inevitable injuries, Logan O'Connor can be a guy that raises the level of the guys around him. And it doesn't matter if it's a top six roll, bottom six roll. He just makes everybody around him better, as Megan had said. Maybe we all have a Logan O'Connor in our lives where we have a problem. we text him, he comes and he fixes it and he makes our lives better for it.

It's reminiscent and this is, I think, a very high praise for this line, but that's how well they've played and how important they are for this team's future success. It reminds me a lot of the way we thought of that line for Tampa Bay, the year they won the cup where it was Yaddy Gord, Blake Coleman, and Barkley Goodrow before they had to disband it and all guys left for other teams, where they started, I guess, as their third line and because of their playing style, where it was like kind of grinding and more like defensively oriented and start in terms of where they started their shifts. Everyone just kept referring to them as their third line.

But then by the end of that postseason, you looked at their ice times and they were right behind pointing Guthrara 515. Like they actually really were John Cooper's second line in terms of usage and in terms of how much he relied on them throughout the game. Yet everyone was like, oh, that's a good third line. And it's like, no, they're actually their second line. And that's kind of how I feel about them so far this season. Any other notes here on. On the three of them, Or Logan O'Connor and Megan, before we talk a little bit about then what you do with the other line, whether you want to defer to it as a second or third line? Just quickly, O'Connor's recovery, he barbs from what McKinnon does. So when McKinnon's in on the bikes, an hour after the game, O'Connor is right there.

I don't think it's any accident that as McKinnon has added more to his wellness and recovery away from the ice and O'Connor follows him very closely, is very inspired by him, that O'Connor's game also elevates. I think that this is an, it all links back to McKinnon. I think that he leads by example in what he does there, so much so too, that O'Connor was asked by Kel McCart to have a bigger voice in the room this year because he has earned it. I also think that's worth giving a nod. I love that. Okay. AJ, I'm going to give you the floor here because you wrote a really great piece that I recommend people go check out,

essentially laying out the full blueprint for who's theoretically available, who would make sense for this avalanche team in the Sext Alliance center role. As much as we just praised the additions of Colton and Wood and what they've meant for that trio, AJ, you and I did an episode, I believe the day after they traded for Ryan Johansson, and we sort of laid out the pros and cons and our potential concerns for it, and just watching him play on this team, it's clear that stylistically just not as much of a fit in terms of the pace and intensity he plays at compared to what I think they ideally want from that role.

And so now that leaves this big opening where, regardless of who the wingers are going to be, I think for this team, to really cement itself as a Stanley Cup contender, it's going to have to go relatively big game shopping at that position. Now, there's a lot of players available both in the expiry market, but also with some term left on their deals. I'll let you lay out here a little bit quickly, your favorites of the bunch and kind of what the more realistic scenarios are, or guess what the calculus is for the avalanche in terms of how they're going to approach this way down the deadline. Yeah, I think with where the avalanche are right now,

The obvious name is the lies Lindholm, because Calgary should certainly be getting ready to move on from guys that don't appear interested in staying there long term. They're not good enough, even if they slip into a second wild card spot. Like, let's be real, the flames just aren't where it's at at this point. So why spend big money in big term to keep guys who are entering into their 30s? So with a guy like Lindholm, you know, he's big, he's a right shot, which the avalanche really need. And it's something that they really value as that extra guy in their forward corks. They don't have very many of them. So he's, I think, the obvious name.

He's a good two-way guy. He's not having a very good year, which might benefit the avalanche, because you could theoretically keep that price a little more realistic versus a guy that was going off the way that Bo Horvatt was last year when he got moved to the islanders. But, you know, Lindholm, I think, is the obvious name there. He just checks all the boxes for the avalanche. And the underrated box that he also checks is that the team that they are, one of the teams that they are competing for at the top of the Central Division is the

Winnipeg Jets have the exact same needs. And if you can go and get the best second line center available, that means that the team that you're trying to beat for home ice in your division can't go get that same guy. So, you know, Lindholm is the obvious fit there. Does he play with the pace that the Avalanche want? You might not love some of the answers to that question. But when you look at Ryan Johanson, you say almost it. This is just a bad fit for where Ryan Johansson is in Colorado.

It's just a bad fit for him. So I don't want to, you know, I don't want to turbo dunk on, on, on, on, on Raijo or anything. But, you know, he was a good guy. Seems to be well liked by, by everybody. But you just, you have to have to have a little bit, uh, you have to have a little bit more of a heartbeat than what we've seen out of Ryan Javanson in Colorado. He needs to go play somewhere where, you know, his, his, his 42nd shift length is not, is, is, is fine. You know, because he's gassed after 30 seconds. he gets off the ice and it's hard to do a whole lot. You know, you look at Nathan McKinn. Nathan McKinnon's averaging, you know, he's on the ice for 55 seconds.

You know, guys, the guys that make the impact are on the ice. And that's just not been Ryan Javanson this year. So Elias Lindholm, I think is the obvious one. You get into, you know, Adam Henrique is an expiring contract out of Anaheim, the avalanche of getting a good look at what he would look like in a de facto avalanche style system with Greg Cronin there, Megan's close personal friend, from his days as Colorado Eagle head coach. So they've gotten a good look at what Adam Henrique would look like

playing Avalanche hockey this year. If they decide that that's what they would like to go do, then that's a guy that would fit in with their, you know, kind of with their style. So I think those are the two names that you could start with at the top of the list. And then, you know, you get into, Avalanche fans love Boone Jenner. He always comes up in this conversation.

I'd be surprised if Columbus was willing to. to move him for anything other than a gross overpayment given who Boone Jenner is as a player. But certainly would be a nice fit for a lot of the things that the Avalanche would like, including a cheaper contract that they could easily fit in under the salary cap moving forward. But those are some guys that I think that you could start that conversation with. But really, like, Blinholm is the big game shopping here, checks all the boxes other than not having a great ear in Calgary. which raises the questions of,

is this guy really a difference maker in your lineup? There's all kinds of psychological questions, including like, is he not having a very good year because he's kind of checked out from this flame situation, which seems to be floundering, he expects that he's leaving.

All those things, we know that that stuff impacts players every year, as much as they might be like, oh, you know, I just block out all that noise, and then they get traded and they're like, yeah, it did wear on me. It really did take a toll on me. It happens all the time.

And it's fair to wonder if that's happening with Lindholm right now. And one reason why I've advocated for the Avalanche to do this sooner than later, if Calgary was willing to, obviously, you can't just make a team, give you a player. But if they were to do it sooner than later, they could get Lindholm into their system and get him up to speed, as we've seen with Wood and Colton and Duren, 10 games. You roughly 10 games that took those guys to kind of get going. They only have, you know, I think 18 games after the deadline.

That's not a ton of time to get a guy acclimated to all the different things of an organization. It's very whirlwind for that guy. You get him in the sooner the better. The better the results will be by the start of the postseason. Well, not only that, but Megan, I thought AJ made a really good point there about the competition for this, which is the Jets, where you look at the Central Division standings and there's very little separating the Jets, the Avs, and the Stars right now. And the reason why that's so interesting to me is because it means that whoever doesn't win that is almost likely going to play the other team in a round

one matchup that's going to be wildly overqualified for round one of NHL playoffs. Now, selfishly, I would love to see an Avs Star series because every time those two teams match up something chaotic and outrageous happens, I don't think the Aves would love that series. I don't think the Stars would either, by the way. So I think they're going to both be trying very hard to stay away from that. I'm sure the Jets would love to see them duke it out, so they're going to probably make a big push here as well. So you mentioned the 18 games after deadline. I imagine any other games you can accrue with wherever you acquire in the lineup before then will also be such a net positive because each of those games matters. So there's a lot of motivation factors there certainly for making some sort of an

acquisition. Do you have a favor of the bunch that AJ pointed out there or anyone that really out to you as someone that you think would make a lot of sense for what this abs team needs. I like Lindholm the most. I think that's who most people are banging the drum for, just because I think the stylistic fit makes no sense is what they were looking for in Ryan Johansson in the first place, knowing Johansson's speed was going to be a shortcoming. He does also have that right shot, look that they, I think, would like to replicate in Linholm, but Linholm has better speed, great two-way player, so not worried about his defensive game. fitting the F style. The only concern is, are they giving up a roster player? Can it come about

through just prospects and picks? And is it then worth what is most likely a rental? Which is tough because their window feels open beyond just this year. You don't want to waste a special season that Nathan McKinnon is having, like AJ has said before. But you also don't want to harm the window for the years to come in getting rid of potentially a roster player for what could be a rental. I don't know if there's a bolder approach then in a younger player who has risk and investment upside, like a Morgan Frost out of Philadelphia. That is a little bit because I think they value this player as a prospect too. They've got a player in him. He's had ups and downs with Torts this season, but I also think he'd be such a great stylistic fit. And there's

risk, though. There's growing up that Ross has to do as a player. There's a reason that there have been those ups and downs with twerts. That's someone I'm looking at, though, because Philadelphia's flyer, their season has been better than expected, like they're not really in their window yet. Could they be willing, especially because things have sort of struggled for them lately, depart with a player like Frost? Only fear is, I think they'd also be interested in a roster player in return, like Bowen Byron. And so there isn't, I don't really have an easy answer. I like A.J. deferring to Adam Henrique, who I actually liked at the deadline last year. and I'm a simple girl.

I love Greg Cronin and I love Logan O'Connor. I would trust Cronin's judgment then. And I would also prefer to see Henrique coming out of Anaheim's system, at least under some time spent under Greg Cronin. I think, like AJ said, that would prime him pretty well for a stint in Colorado. I love that. Well, I'm very curious to see how this unfolds. And I'm certainly going to be bugging both of you again to come back on and talk it out whenever an inevitable move does happen. I'll let you make and plug some stuff on the way.

out here because I love the way the two of you cover this team at your outlet. And so I want you to let the listeners know where they can check that out and what you have in the works. You can find us on Twitter or X, whatever you call it these days, at DNVR underscore Avalanche, a lot of written content on the site. A.J. does a lot of feature pieces, especially around the deadline. And so it's return of AJ, right? Yeah. I always remember, I was just type in your name and then it comes up. We got to work on that. And I, and I, we got to work on that. I'm at Meg Angley. This was great.

I'm really happy I was finally able to get you on. AJ, it's good to have you on as always. I'm looking forward to having both of you on again soon. Thank you everyone for listening to us. If you enjoyed this show, please go leave us a five-star review. And also check out the show notes for the Discord server invite link to get in there and send in future mailbag questions for us. There's very little hockey on the schedule starting next week for a couple weeks with All-Star break and whatnot.

So we'll have plenty of opportunity to do some mailbags and dive into that. you for listening to us and we'll be back with plenty more of the Hockey Ocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.