The Hockey PDOcast - New goalies doing exciting things

Episode Date: April 4, 2023

Kevin Woodley joins Dimitri to talk about the Kings' goaltending since the Korpisalo trade, Skinner taking the job in Edmonton, and first impressions Devon Levi in Buffalo.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

mean since 2050. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovic. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Dimitri Filippovich and joining me in studio is my good buddy Kevin Woodley. What's going on? Not much, not much. Is your mic working there, Kevin? Yeah, your mic's working.

You're good. We don't need your headphones on. You know, we're sitting in the same room together in this beautiful 650 studio. We don't need the headphones. I thought maybe Dom needed to like yell in my ear every once in a while. Usually along the lines of Woodley, would you please stop. talking we've got to go to break you idiot so that's good I'm just never

going to stop talking to I'm going to have to bang on that window to get me to shut up well I'm excited to have you here you are our noted director of our goaltending excellence department here in the pediocast the only person I trust to talk about goaltending beyond just citing stats and referring to it as voodoo let's just hope that nobody in my beer leg

is hearing this right now because let's just say that I have been atrocious of late so there'd be people that would dispute me being a guru of anything involving stopping puck do as I say not as I do right. We'll go with that. Yeah. We'll go with that. All right. So I've cooked up a list of topics here for us. This guy's going to be the last regular season show we're doing. We've done a series of

these pretty much one every month or so. So it's kind of been a recurring theme. And we're going to start off with Eunice Corpusalo and the Kings because the last time I had you here in studio, we were talking about how the Kings desperately needed to adjust their goal tending. They were amongst the league worst in terms of say percentage, goal sale of all, expected everything from all the goalies they've been using despite a strong defensive environment. We were talking about Krell of Amoka at the time. And then you actually brought up how you actually like the fit of Eunice Corpusallo based on his individual strengths in Columbus admitting that it was a wildly different playing environment.

I forgot that I said that. This is a back padding session. Go back and listen to those. I think it was February 15th, video cast you were here in studio. And it's towards the end of that first segment, you kind of, you match make the two and you're like, I think this is interesting. So I'm going to look for two weeks later. They make the trade and the results since have been phenomenal.

We can talk about Corpus'aolo here individually. Maybe we should start with that. and then talk about the Kings and kind of the entirety of the goaltending situation because there's another fascinating note related to that that I wanted to pitch you on. Okay, so on Corpusallo. You saw him here the other day in Vancouver. Yeah, and it looked good. And like, listen to me, this is mostly, well,

this is mostly the Kings being a really good defensive team. And yours, Corpusalo, looking more like the really good goaltender that we sort of always knew he had the skill set to be. but in part because of injuries and he had the hip surgery last summer I think double hip surgery sort of took them to mid-December to sort of learn how to play with the body

to work properly. It's a little bit of some Lorenzois right now going on with the Vegas golden eyes like your body gets into positions that it was struggling to get into and goaltending puts it in some unique spots and all of a sudden things that were hard work again and you can do things you weren't able to do

and so Corpus Sala's game you know as I think I mentioned back in that one and thanks for reminding me because I've kind of forgotten about that. So I'll take that as a... It's a win. I don't get many. Like as I was saying,

I'm like, not a lot of wins lately, but I'll take that as a W. It's, I mean, his numbers since March 1st, so since the trade, basically, his adjusted say percentage is like almost plus 3%,

like top four in the league. Like, he has been really good there. They've limited his playing time by sort of alternating, for the most part with Phoenix Copley, which is interesting because Copley's going tonight. I thought we saw them break the rotation they had going specifically to put Corpusallo against Edmonton,

and Stuart Skinner was brilliant that night, and he loses 2-0. And now I assumed we'd see Corsalolo again, but we're going back to Phoenix Copley. And so, listen, at the end of the day, it's been a really good fit. His adjusted numbers are off the charts. The team is having success. They're a wagon defensively,

but he's also outperform that environment by a significant margin. And so good for Jonas Corpus Sala, good for the Kings, they have options. For a team that basically started the first half of the season, they couldn't get a good option in that. They now have two. And one who, at least statistically, in my mind, will be the game one starter in Corpus Salo, but a pretty good option that the team feels comfortable

in front of in Phoenix Copley as well. Credit to you, it is a W. You should take a victory lap here because I was on the more skeptical side of Corpusalo. acknowledged that he had much better numbers, especially when you account for the environment in Columbus where it was one of the worst, like, three to five defensive teams in the league this season. It was about December 10th. Like, he started off a bit slow and then he really turned it on.

From then on, like, his numbers just kept climbing and climbing and climbing and climb. And the story of, like, how he's, like, figuring out his new body, basically, and how that works with everything totally makes sense. I was just like, I always thought for years that the production didn't match the reputation, right? For years, even when Bobrowski was there, he was coming in as, like, this next hot top prospect. We heard all this hype. He'd play the occasional game and look good, but at the end of the season, you look at the numbers and it's like, all right, he's got a negative goal save above expected in this, behind this towards defense. A lot of inconsistency. Not doing it for me. And he had the,

obviously, the magical, you know, stint against the Leafs and the Lightning in the in the bubble playoffs. And I think a lot of it was based on that. Now, to his credit, he really turned it on in the second, kind of in the middle part of the season. And in these eight games that he's played for the Kings, he's been phenomenal. He stopped 171 of 109-5-on-5 shots. He has a 9-37 save percentage plus 9.5 goals they were expected, according to sport logic. And you made an interesting note there. We were talking about how we'd like to see a team really not just run a goalie tandem

and rotation because I think that's something most teams would ideally like to do. But then the season starts, you run into like scheduling quirks. And all of a sudden you just find yourself just riding your starter all over again. And you're like, all right, well, it got away from us, maybe next year. And in this case, they really have stuck to it so far. Other than there was one time, as you mentioned, where in Alberta, they had a day off in between games, and they used Corpusallo against the flames on a Tuesday and then the Oilers on a Thursday. Otherwise, they've gone Corpissolo Copley, Corpso Copley, back to back.

Even without back to back. Right against Edmonton. It's Copley's turn. And this is, but this is a huge style. Yeah. This could be the difference between home ice or not home ice or even a shot at getting to the top seed, which let's be honest. Like, geez, can I take the top seat? And although Winnipeg's playing a little better now, but like you're taking that top seat on one of the wild cards.

Or I get to go to Edmonton and play the Oilers. No, thank you. So I'm a little bit surprised. Like I said, I thought this was a tell in terms of who their playoff starter was when they rolled out Corpusallo in Edmonton. A little bit surprised tonight. Big test for Copley. I covered the King's game in Seattle before they came up here. And like he didn't have to be spectacular.

Most of the game he just had to stay awake, which was also a challenge covering it. Because I think there were 12 shots through two periods. It was not scintillating hockey. But then early in the third period, I think it was Tolvinen on a breakaway. There were a bunch of bang, bang plays in tight. and Copley's movement, like he reminds me a little of Bersois,

like everything is just controlled, and he's in position, and he's never flailing, and he's rarely swimming. The only time he sort of got swimming in that entire game was on the goal, and that was because the puck went off the post, and he felt it bounced off of him behind him,

and you sort of just react that way. But, like, Corpus Salle's numbers are notably better than Phoenix Copleys. But behind a team that doesn't give up much, like Copley is your perfect, just, he is going, want to make you beat him goaltender. He is not going to beat himself.

If you can get the time and space to create offense to pick a corner, it might be there. But that's what it's going to take because he's going to be in the center and the net. He's going to be set. He's going to be square. He's going to take away the bottom of the ice. He's got decent hands. Like he is just, he's actually perfect for that role. Well, he's perfect behind this team because the king's in a way, I don't know, they like

run, they put some more spell on you because they themselves play a very, like, straight line north-south game off the rush right they like to just take the puck up the ice get into the zone and shoot and a lot of times it's like with a lot of speed and eventually they're going to bludgeon you to death with that and they get other teams to get into those types of environments with them and so for a guy like copply hearing you talk about him that way it makes sense that he would like this would be a good spot for him because those are the very predictable shots where you can kind of like see where they're coming from off the rush there's not a lot of creativity and movement he's having to deal with I'm curious how Corpusolo blends that because obviously it's a wildly different environment,

especially in terms of shot volume compared to what he was facing in Columbus. And if it is a round one matchup against the Oilers, they are a team that isn't going to fall into that trap. Like they, especially with their top six out there, they're going to look for the best shot possible and really present a lot of dangerous scoring chances against you, right? Do you prefer Corpusalo all things being equal in that type of a game environment just because he maybe has like a bit more athletic upside to deal with it. I feel like he's bigger and yet I was just talking to Phoenix the other day, post game in the locker room and I forgot how tall he was.

So I'd actually have to look that up. I feel like Corby's a little bigger. I feel like there might be another layer of athleticism to his game. And that doesn't automatically mean he's going to be better against tougher shots because sometimes we saw it here in the Brock Bass circle on the rebound that goes under his pad. Like sometimes athleticism and reaching opens holes. Right. Like, I think Copley, like, as a comparison, that I think we see that bang, bang,

play Miller from the, I guess, left dot off Corpacil's left pad bounces right to Bessor at the top of the crease for a quick sort of putback. And because of the urgent nature of that type of play, Corpacalo extends and reaches and breaks his seal along the ice. Yep. I think Copley rotates on that and has that pad along the ice and makes that save. So sometimes that athleticism that we associate in our minds with being a more dynamic goaltender with higher upside and maybe better suited to stare down the creativity and speed and skill of the oilers, like sometimes you can take yourself out of a play. Now, the thing about Corpusallo is he does have a really solid technical foundation.

And at the end of the day, as much as I like Copley is a fit with the Kings, like there is no comparison between their two numbers, especially since Corposolos. arrived. Copley is under-expected. And Corpus Sallo is notably above, like I said, like top five in the league type numbers since he joined the Los Angeles King. So I still lean that way, but there's clearly a confidence this team has playing in front of Phoenix Coppellay, and it's warranted because all he's done since he's gone there is win.

And like, that counts. It does count. Like how your team feels in front of you and feels about playing in front of you matters. I've never seen this dramatic a turnaround in season, though. Kevin, I was looking at it. Like on March 1st when they made the trade. Yes, on the, because like their defensive environment, especially like if you look at the sport logic numbers, I'm not sure.

I think Clarice had agreed with it. They liked their defensive environment even more than a lot of the publicly available data we have. And like they were putting a lot of the onus on the fact that the goalies just weren't good enough. I think at the time of the trade on March 1st, quick Copley and Peterson had combined for like negative 55 goals they have above expected. and what 31st and see a percentage? I think we talked about this as part of when we were looking at, did the Kings need to make a move?

And at the time of the trade, you know, Jonathan Quick was 4% below expected, just similar to where Cal Peterson was when they sent to them the minors. So people like, we hear this a lot, right? Like, what do you mean below expected? What's 4%? Well, if there's 100 shots, that means that four goals are going in that shouldn't for every 100 shots

on Jonathan Quick, or were going in when he was in Los Angeles. That's a goal every game. That's a goal every 25 shots that shouldn't go in. Extra. On top of what? On top of, yeah, exactly. That's one more than you should give up based exclusively on your goal.

It's obviously it's not as cut and dried as that, but, you know, clearly something had to change there. The environment, as you said, you know, I just have in front of me right now pull that up on clear sight. Expect the goals against. This is high danger chances, which I look at the most. second, five on five overall, on the rush, first, D zone. So when it's in zone, third.

The only numbers they dip out of the top 12 was their PK. Everything else is like, forget top, it's top three and every other number except penalty kill. So it is a very goaly-friendly environment and the goaltenders were struggling there. It is.

And then now since, I think the game where they had that seven, six shootout against the blues that they won recently where Copley was in that. I think that was the only. time in these 15 games since they've given up more than two goals in a game they're like winning everything and it's ironically the oilers have also just basically kept pace and won the exact same amount as they have so they haven't really like been able to distance themselves they're they're still

setting up this collision course in round one as a rematch of last year but hey let's talk about the oilers first all right let's do because is the narrative like this reminds me a little bit of Toronto like for the longest time the narrative in Toronto was that they were this offensive team that couldn't defend. Yes. And I don't think it's been true for several years now. Yeah. Right.

Is that still the narrative around Edmonton? Certainly. Certainly. How about fourth in high danger expected goals again? Six off the rush and sixth in the defensive zone. The only numbers that aren't good for them again, the penalty kills 29th. Everything else is really solid. And interestingly enough, it's kind of cratered since March 1st.

Up until March 1st, these were all top two numbers. I do a show in Edmonton on a weekly basis. and so we go through these a lot. And like up until March 1st, like they were a top two or three defensive team in the National Hockey League when it came to the most significant, the chances that matter the most.

And they have slipped and their goaltending, interestingly enough, Skinner was even further below expected when they were great. And as the tests have gotten harder in this past month, he's actually risen to the occasion and played better relative to expect it. He's actually been better in a tougher environment.

And I sort of cautioned people in Edmonton all year long, like Stuart Skinner had one of the highest expected say percentages in the league that almost never lasts for a season. And the question is as it gets more difficult around you, do you just sort of stay where you are relative to it or do you take a bigger step back? And interestingly enough, he's actually gotten better as things have gotten tougher.

And I think that L.A. game is a case in point. Like 43 shots, there were 10 high danger by Claire sight, and he was perfect on the night. So that's a good sign if you're the Edmonton Oilers. not that your defense has suddenly become leaky, but that your goal tender is playing better as it has. Yeah, and if you watch that game, there was the one sort of sequence I remember where he was kind of like a bit out of position

and then just threw himself in front of the pocket. It was like a scramble save and it hit him and he stopped it and it looked like very acrobatic, right? But for the most part, a lot of those 43 saves were like, to my eye very technically sound in terms of like it just hit him. That's typically. It's like it wasn't a high, like it would have been tough to cut up a highlight reel of his saves

of that game because there were so few very memorable ones and that's to his credit well and I think actually the kings like again this is why if I'm LA I'm not sure I want that matchup so much of their offense is in tight and around the net and I don't want to say rudimentary but it's like

it's get puck shoot puck yeah it's a little less dynamic and and the reality like Stuart Skinner in tight and this is why I'm not surprised I think the public models favor him a little more more than the private stuff we have here, is because a lot of that sort of in tight

is what we think of as the best chances. And sometimes if you're a really efficient, technically sound goal tender, like there's nowhere for that puck to go, the closer it is to you. And so those bang, bang plays in and around the crease. He's so efficient with shifting that big frame into that space without opening up holes.

Like, as you said, just a really strong technical base. Like, those are the types of chances. You don't mind giving up. Even though they look, I mean, there's a game here where they play and, like, there were three of those in the first five minutes, and it was like, oohing and awing, like, kept them in the game early,

and I'm like, they look spectacular. We love them as goalies. Yeah. There's nothing better than that backdoor pass that you've anticipated. You can read it from 10 miles away, and all you do is sort of drop the knee, rotate your head around, and put the pad down. The guy slams it off your pad, and everyone's like, oh, my God!

And you're like, I just stuck my leg out. I just put my leg in the spot, and there was nowhere for the puck to go. He was in too tight. Yeah. Stuart Skinner does a lot of that, and I'm not taking it. anything away like it's it's there's there's a lot of skill there like there's a lot

that there's a reason his technique is so good he's worked really hard at it but I feel like those types of chances feed right into his game you start giving up the middle of the ice in the middle in the high slot and that's where you're going to see a little more exposure which is on the on the scale of things I think the Kings as you mentioned

aren't necessarily the worst matchup in that regard in terms of like threatening them from those areas you know you're talking about the pad saves what's more satisfying like that or like the very rudimentary glove save that you then turn into an exaggerated windmill and just throw your body all over and everyone goes wild because we see a lot of those as well. I mean like the ones where they just basically shoot it into your glove. Yeah, like you stick your glove out.

It basically goes in and then all of it goes. Yeah, I got a bad wing. So there's not a lot of windmills happening these days. Probably put my shoulder out of the soft. A lot of nice toe saves though. I will take the like for me personally, it's the, it's the, it's the, across ice, bang, bang. Especially if you read it, you get a good rotation.

You're not just sticking that leg out, but you're actually making a push across. And the guy just like one T slams it off your pads and everybody loses it. And you're like, yeah, that was a good read. That was a good rotation. That was a good push. You know, the thing for, as we wrap this conversation up on Skinner, I think what they're going to have to sort of juggle is they have five or six regulations in games left. This one tonight against the Kings is a big one.

All of them are big because there's like a one point back and they're basically playing for home ice against them, even if the first seat is out of reach with Vegas a few points up on both of them. I'm curious to see how much they play Skinner, right? Because he's already getting into kind of like uncharted territory where he's not only played 46 games, I believe, so far this season, but he's played 15 of the last 20. And I think it's a lot. Very telling on how, like, they feel not only about him and how much they need him, but also

how bad and how, you know, tough a go it's been for Jack Campbell, that you look at the games they have given Campbell in that time. It was Columbus, which you got pulled after like 20 minutes. Vegas, sorry, Winnipeg on a second of a back-to-back, which was a horrible performance by him, I thought. And then San Jose, Arizona, both games, they, like, had to score five goals and nearly lost. And then Anaheim where he had the shutout most recently. But they're, like, very carefully selecting which games they give him, and it's pretty much whenever they have to, because otherwise, I think. And that's going to...

Yeah, you can't play the wheels off, Skinner. This is already going to be a big test. But in the playoffs, like, I honestly think that Campbell at this point is unplayable. Like,

like, if he's playing for them in the playoffs, something has gone wrong. I think it's going to be Skinner, as far as Skinner takes them. See, like,

this is a tough one for me because I said, I was critical of the signing in the first place. I pointed to the numbers. Everybody loves Jack Campbell. Mm-hmm. And I count me on that list.

I, just strictly pointing at the numbers. Just the numbers had them in the 30s, This goes back to that conversation about what the Leafs are defensively and how much of their place where goalies should want to play because the environment is not what it used to be, say, when Freddie Anderson was back there being asked to stop bullets in his teeth.

It was very goalie friendly. And his performance relative to it was just slightly above expected, like it was in the 30s. And that's not bad because what the Leafs ask you to do as a goaltender can be tough. It can be tough. It can be tough in a lot of different ways. And he managed all those things. But at the end of the day, I'm not paying $25 million over five years

for 30th in the NHL consecutive seasons, especially when one of those seasons had a six-weens. week stretch where he were the worst goalie in the league. That's, you know, so all that said, he's not this bad. Like, this has gone way worse than even I expected, and I was one of the biggest critics of the signing. Yeah. He's better than this.

And I believe if they can get him a little, like, I wouldn't be calling a goalie coach on this, I'll be calling a sports psychologist. I, like, honestly, and I say that, like, I just think there are so many things when you hear, like, there are so many lessons that we, we talk to sports psychologists from all over the world all time at Engel about different tools. about different tools for goaltenders and how they should manage certain situations and self-talk and watching Jack Campbell post game

is like a how-not-to video from a... It's not even sports psychology. Just sort of like mental game, mindset. Yeah, of course. It's like a how-not-to-it. I feel like he's a goalie that relies so much on confidence and so much of what he says and seems to undermine his own confidence.

Technically, when he starts sinking and drifting back in his crease, Like, he's just too small. The other night in Arizona, and I know it's just Arizona, like he said, they're carefully selecting the stars. I liked where he was in his crease. I liked that he stayed there. Interestingly enough, he's made equipment changes. I have not seen a lot of guys switch their entire gear lineup in a season.

The other night, he had another new, like another different company's glove on. So there's clearly some searching there. But I still think, if you get him to come out of it, again, this is a good defensive team. Stuart Skinner's your guy, come hell or high water. If you could find Jack a couple of starts to build that confidence, because that's the thing. I can look at all the technical elements from good Jack Hamilton. There's a couple tells from good to bad.

But beyond that, it's not a huge switch. And if you could find a couple of moments, he's a guy that, as much as his confidence has lacked all season, if you were to find a sliver of it, he'd at least become an option for you again. Well, it reminds you of last year, right? even when things were going well from and the numbers were good at the start of the year in Toronto, they'd have like one bad game or they'd even lose like 2-1 or something. And it wasn't even a bad game by anyone's standards. And like you watch the post game and you'd be just like blaming himself and he'd be like ripping himself when you want.

And it's like, all right, now this year where things really do go bad and there's a lot of blame to divvy up, he's like taking all of it. And understandably so, like he hasn't clearly been good enough. I think, you know, the public numbers have him at what, negative 19 goals they above expected on a ballroom hockey. Spore logic has him in negative 26. the only goalies who have been more detrimental to their teams are Elvis Marzlikens, Capocococcanin, Spencer Martin, Jonathan Quick, and Jacob Markstrom, by my count. And that's tough, right? Especially when you're staring down the barrel of, all right, there's four more years of this at $5 million or whatever.

Now, I think it's too early to punt on that. I do agree with you, though. Like, I would have actually considered potentially sending him down to H.L. Just to get him starts in a less pressure-filled environment and get him feeling better about himself. I guess maybe the Oilers agree, and they did so. by NHL standards, by giving him games against the ducks and the sharks and the coyotes. So maybe that's exactly what they're doing here just at the NHL level. I don't know that a lot of, I don't know that a lot of what Jack relies on to read the game

could have been accomplished in the AHL. Like I understand the need to want to go find him a place to play to get that comment. Just so he's not beating himself up every single night. But the American Hockey League's a league that's a lot less controlled, a lot less scrambled. And I think the reads he relies on. to play well or you're in a more controlled better environment especially in edmonton i don't know what their american league teams like in terms of structure but like that's the best place for him is in edmonton it's just they couldn't afford to find them

those starts in part because he helped put them behind the eight ball relative to where the expectations were um in terms of the standings listen like like i said all those things you talk about like none of them none of them are like these are everything like the words we choose like I know goalie mindset guys that like don't even talk about I gave up a goal it's like a save I didn't make right like because your subconscious mind if I talk about giving up a goal your subconscious mind sees a goal he's a puck going in the net so it saves I didn't make we don't use the word goal like obviously I give up a crap ton of goals I don't use this language very well in beer league but like at the pro level like I see pros have success adopting these

mindsets and literally every time I see Jack Campbell talking I'm like This is a like mindset how not to. And that's why like I'm not trying to, when I say sports psychologists, like I got to be very careful here. I'm not trying to like question his, this isn't a mental health. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is strictly, there are performance coaches, mindset coaches,

um, many of which who like do deep dives on your personality, like they do personality tests, they do stress tests, how your body specifically reacts to different types of stresses based on your personality so that they can develop a plan to allow you, to go out there and play with confidence and not cut yourself off at knees on nights where things don't go well. And there's just, it seems like there's just way too much of that with Jack Campbell right now. He just doesn't give himself a chance. I still think skill set wise, like there's

ability there, no question. Yeah. To be better than he has been. Yeah. Well, it seems like we're certainly going to get Corpus all over Skinner in round one and a lot of interesting storylines there to look forward to. So I'm looking forward to that. Kevin, let's take our break here. Let's squeeze it in always still can. And then when we come back, we'll keep chatting with Kevin Woodley. You're listening to the Hockey P.DEOCast, as always, streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. Catch up on what happened in Vancouver Sports with Halford & Brough in the morning. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

PEDEOCast with Kevin Woodley in studio talking with always. We did Corpusalo. We did Stuart Skinner. Let's talk about Devin Levi, one of my favorite late season stories here. I wish we were recording tomorrow so that we could talk about whatever he does tonight in his revenge against the team that drafted him and traded him for Sam Ryanhardt a couple years ago. But only one game so far, so clearly don't want to make any sort of like, you know, bold, like proclamations or sweeping takeaways.

Well, it was one. It was, it was a really good period, though. And I think part of why I'm enjoying this, like, you know, the build up to this in terms of his performance at the NCAA level, but then also, you know, the sabers in terms of like they're playing style this year where they're getting in all these high-scoring games and you're like, man, if they could just like, if their goalie could just steal them one here or there, all of a sudden they might even sneak into the playoffs. And now he comes in for this late season last kind of push for them.

A couple quotes for you from Devin Levi's so far, all right? Listen, by the way, this kid is a goalie geek dream come true because he is a goalie geek. Well, did he is like, you know what's that? One of us. One of us. Well, I didn't, I actually don't have this written down as one of the quotes I'm about to share with you. But in a story I was reading, because he had that awkward period where he was like waiting for his work visa or whatever. And so he was like practicing the team, but he wasn't actually allowed to play for them until he started the game against the Rangers last weekend.

He was like sitting in the press box for some of these games. And he was in, and in the story he's talking about how like he was like up there with his notebook and he was like jotting down notes in terms of like where they were giving up shots from. what to expect, like kind of like tendency, defensive tendencies that the sabers have. One of us. And, Devon, they, they have this stuff on the internet. You can look it up. You don't necessarily need to write it down. Although, as someone who hand writes my notes, as you can see in my notebook here, I do appreciate the craft.

So, but, yeah, really cool. And then he was talking about how, like, he was just geeking out watching. I think UC Soros was playing in one of them at the opposing crease. And so he was, like, watching some of these guys and just, like, marveling at it. And so here's what he said. In terms of waiting for his work because he said it comes so you could play. It's out of my control, so I can't really think about it. How I'm thinking about it, though, is that you can't keep the beast tamed in the cage for too long.

I'm just hungry to get out there and stop box because that's what I do. Then, after his debut against the Rangers, the Rangers had a third period power play in a two-two game, right? And it was like a must win for the Sabres. And he gets asked about it. And he goes, these are the moments I love. I was just having fun out there. I wanted some one-timers because I want them to find me so that they can test me. And then he gets asked about a chance, like a specific one.

I know what Tammy Pernar and had in the slot. And he goes, I love it. That's why I'm here. There's no guy I'd rather having the slot going one on one with me. Remember when we talked about mindset? That's swag. Well, it's more, like, but this is the mindset you want. Like, you know, and I'm going to throw some kudos out to Pete Fry, the goalie mindset guy,

who we've done some webinars with. You'll recall Dustin for, or sorry, not Dustin. My apologies. Dylan Ferguson, getting to start with Ottawa recently. And Pete's a guy that we've actually been in run webinars here in Vancouver with Pete leading a sort of day-long goalie mindset, and Dylan would come because Dylan was a part of that. And coming out of that first start, 42 saves against the Penguins, you know, briefly kept the Senator's season alive, all that years he waited to get there. One of the approaches that Pete sort of encourages that he had embraced, like just came pouring through in that second quote you referenced, because I watched the video on it.

We actually ran the audio on our podcast, the Ingoor radio podcast for the same reason. You can't go out there with the mindset of like, oh, geez, I hope my team keeps it at the other end. Boy, I hope. Like, you have to want a power play. Want a two-on-one. Embrace those types of moments in your mind, which also allows you to be ready and aware and sort of anticipate them coming. You're not sitting there in a state of fear. And there's a whole mindset that goes into this.

And like, like, Devin Levi embodies so much of it, right? Like, have you, I'm surprised. I thought you for sure would have the quote and the story about when he actually meditates during the TV time. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, when he goes on his knees by the ass marks. Yeah, and the meditation is like there's a Swedish, Andy Schford mindset, sports psychologist, works with like dozens and dozens of pros. Works with one of your favorite players, Jess Brad. Oh, yeah, nice. As a sports psychologist.

And talks about his goalies, will actually meditate. not just forget TV timeouts, like plays at the other end on a faceoff. You can find 15, 20 seconds windows to meditate and re-center yourself. But I love the story

that Devin tells about like, and I'm not a Star Wars guy, so I think it's Phantom Menace, like, right. I think it's Liam Neeson. I don't know who he's playing, but like we're in the middle of a lightsaber battle,

he sort of goes and meditates and puts a forest field around and that's how Devin, like, I'm told you, goalie geek. Yeah, I love it. Senserina is a virtual reality tool. So I can put on a, virtual reality headset and stop pucks.

NHL shooters, like they have added NHL shooters this year. Pro shooters from Europe were the original sort of shots they massed. It's as realistic as anything I've ever seen. The number one user of Senserina in the world, Devin Levi. Really? He uses it on game days to prepare. Wow.

Like this kid leaves no stone unturned. And yet I was still nervous about how this would go because the expectations, in part because he's so open about all these goalie geeky things. Yeah. So it's a great story. Right? Like we love it in a goalie world. The rest of the world must love it too. Man, the expectations they've heaped on this kid scare that crap out of me. And yet the mindset he has tells me he's probably as equipped as anyone to manage it. Well, also saying that you want to face as many one-timers as you can and go one-on-one versus Demi-Praner.

It's a lot less charming if the puck goes by you and goes into the net, right? And then I imagine it's a different story. But so far, he's at every step of the way, he's not only met expectations, but exceeded him. and his same percentages everywhere he's been are just preposterous, right? And so I think you could sort of see in that one game a lot of the good things and potentially some of the things he's going to have to work on, right?

Like the rebound on the first goal was a terrible rebound that you can't give up in the national hockey and your guys are going to be crashing the net and shoveling it over top you like that. That's one. Well, and it's an adjustment, right? Like, it's literally his first game he hasn't even had.

100%. And the biggest adjustment. Like, goalies have told us like hundreds of goalies now over the years. Like your biggest adjustment is an American league to the NHL. It's coming out of college or junior to the AHL and in his case all the way to like

moving out of like junior college may be less so because there's older players, but like there's also sort of lesser lights at those levels. There are no lesser lights in the national hockey league. Like the best players on your team at the level you

used to play in, they're on the fourth line now. Like everybody's that good. They were good. That's only the good right now. A massive jump. And so you're right. There are going to be more learning curves. The highlight real save he made.

There was a breakway. Got a little swimming on. There was a highlight real save on a backdoor two on one. That was great. It was a great save. Fantastic save. I'm willing to bet that by this time next year or maybe two years is more fair. Because again, with the expectations,

Devin Levi's making that save without having to go into a full spread and be, you know, fully extended. He's probably making that save. He's beating it. If he's sliding on his knee. he's over top of his knees rather than extended. Those are adjustments that he will make in terms of pace and reads that will allow him to make some saves that look spectacular the other night

more easily because that's the kind of goal he is. Yes, at the same time though, and I understand the issues with potentially, like, you know, having a game, a technique that's too noisy or doing too much and getting yourself in trouble by like looking like you're keeping busy, but in reality if you're just been more sound. He's not too noisy. Like he's not. It's just that his quiet. is another level.

No, but the thing that I enjoyed, especially from like just an entertainment perspective was you could sort of see like the, the competitors or the battle in his game where like sometimes like the puck would be like lost or whatever or like there'd be bodies in front of him. And he is a bit of an undersized guy, especially relative to like a lot of the six five, six six behemoths that are just regularly spread throughout NHL these days. And he's like, at what, six foot probably generously? He like, he's like fighting through traffic and like like like very just trying to like improve a

sightliner get a better angle in a shooter and I'm sure part of that is literally just like it being his first game and him like trying to figure out what's happening at this level and doing it on the fly in a pressure pack situation with a team trying still to fight for their making the first time for the playoffs and like over a decade but I loved seeing that from him and I think like it bodes really well for his future once the game does slow down for him a little bit that like he's got some of that in his game as well he's got like he's got everything in his game like like that's sort of the hesitation for me has nothing to do

with what I believe he's going to be. I just worry about the expectations being so high so soon. They have nothing to do with not having confidence that Devin Levi is going to be a really, really, really, really good NHL goal center. It just feels like it's a big ask right now. And again, like I said, though, man, if anyone can handle it, you know, might be this kid.

I can tell you're apprehensive just because you're concerned about that. not because you're down on Devin Levi, right? These are my babies. You can't be throwing them to the wolves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, baby steps. He's like, listen, he spent some time. He spent some time in Kelona last summer with Dylan Garand and a goalie coach that I work with up there, Lyle Mass for a week,

and just they geeked out on tracking and sort of tracking mechanics. I've talked to Mike Conn and his coach at Northeastern about him and about his game and about how, you know, you have to manage, like there are so many little quirks is the wrong word, but so many habits, routines. They're not superstitions. They're routines for him that Mike worried about maybe being too much at times. Like, there's a lot there. When you're as geeky as he is, you know, and I say that with fondness.

Yeah. And when you're in touch with every aspect of your game, it can become too much at times. And yet he's managed it at every stage and found a way to control those things and make them work for him rather than against. him and that's no small feat. Like I know Mike Connan worried about that when, you know, when he first arrived there, all these little extra things. And, you know, there are some people that don't love the idea of, you know, being in the middle of the ice with everyone looking at you, even if you are meditating and recentering

yourself. Like, not everybody loves that idea. He finds a way to make these things work for him. The virtual reality, the extra practices, the extra voices. You can, I love no stone on turn guys, but I've also. also seeing guys that are always looking for ways to get better that sometimes lose their sense of what makes them their best and start chasing. Finding that balance is not easy.

And this goaltender at a very young age appears to have found that balance. What's your ideal scenario for him next season? Is it playing like 55 games at the AHA level while they still have like a bunch of like young guys who are going to be Sabres of the future there? or is it him sort of playing like a 30-ish game role as a backup at an H.L. level because he went straight from college, right? He has no pro experience. Yeah, no, got to play.

I would say got to play. And listen, I was a guy who, when Carter Hart had the early success he had in the National Hockey League, and that spawned, like, don't forget, like, Carter had that success, like, after, what, half a season in the American League. And then McKenzie Blackwood came up and had a ton of success. And then Thatcher Demko's people were like. Like, hey, our guy's at the same stage. He's ready for a taste here.

And I wrote articles at the time about, like, how? Like, maybe this whole goalies take longer thing is being overdone. Maybe some of the special ones don't. And then we saw what happened. And I think some of that is team environment with Carter. But there was a dip. And by the way, he's back this year. Like, he's a guy that if the fliers are looking to trade him

and I'm a team that needs goaltending help, I would consider it. Right. His profile has charted in a very nice direction this season. But yeah, it does tend to take a little. time. The patterns are different in pro hockey than they were in college. And the time it takes you to process and put them together so that you're reading them at the same speed and pace that you were at the other level, you know, everything tells me that he would be better off in the American hockey league. And yet again, I'm tempted, just as I said when Carter made the jump, to want to say,

hey, he's going to be the exception to the rule. And yet at the end of the day, the rule exists quite often for a reason. It doesn't mean you have to be down there to take 25, 26. Yeah, that's what I was going to say, because I think it's a couple years, though. at least a year. Getting like three strong ELC years out of your goalie while they're still in their early to mid-20s is very valuable. And it's infuriating when you watch when teams don't take advantage of that. And maybe it's a case-by-case basis.

Some goalies do need that seasoning. The other part here is the environment has to improve defensively. I know you talked about making big saves. And I thought, you know, again, whether that was Rangers on the second end of back-to-back or the sabers realizing what they had in net, not that they needed to coddle him. But just wanting to support it. Yeah. Which can be tough mentally on a goal tent, right?

Like not seeing a shot for 10 minutes, that can be a tough thing to handle mentally as well. You can get in your own head. I just don't think this kid will. You know, but I've heard a lot of talk about savers goaltending this year. And the reality is they've just been on a whole too permissive. Eric Comrie's expected save percentage this year is 868. That's it. That's the worst environment in the National Hockey League.

And for large portions of this year, he played above it, well above it. But it's a big ass to do that over time. And so I do think, like, they have the pieces, no question. But on the back end, as soon as one of those pieces goes out, like Samuelson in particular. And Comrie, I think the reason his numbers are so low in terms of his expected say, percentage, why that environment was so tough is how many games did he play when Samuelson was out? How many games did he play when Samuelson and Dahlene were out? Like, that's a pretty tough ask.

I don't see the structure, interestingly enough, we see this in Vancouver, hear that word a lot in Vancouver, but I don't see the structure in their game as a five-man unit to overcome things when they lose the personnel they rely on to defend as, from a talent perspective, the structure isn't there to overcome it when the personnel is not all intact on the back end. And you have to either improve the personnel or probably find a little bit more of that structure from all five guys. so it doesn't matter whether all of your defensemen are healthy every game. Which is fine, though, because I think they went into this year being like, all right, we have a lot of young players where we're going to just like put them in an environment where they can just go back and forth, get a score a lot, have fun, have a good product for our fans.

And they've passed all of that, right? I much prefer that to what my quibble with what like Derek Lal was doing in Detroit and maybe just because it doesn't know any better. Like that's who he is as a coach. But they try to like fast track it by bringing him in and being like, like we're going to take this team that hasn't really accomplished anything and we're going to try to play Tampa Bay Lightning playoff hockey with them. Like we're going to just like tighten it up and really like instill all these young guys with with like strong defensive habits. And I think you need to go through these checkpoints as an organization. Right.

We see time and time again when you're young and skilled, it's okay to make some of these mistakes. I'm sure, you know, for you in the goalie union, it's not great that the goalie usually takes the brunt of it. Yeah, yeah. I don't want all-star games out there every night. But I think that's like a necessary part of this process. I don't expect this from them next year. You just have to recognize it. Like I said, I've seen the criticism on Commer and hey, I'm biased.

I love Combs. Yeah. And there's a lot of Eric Comrie. Like we talked about Devin Levi being the number one user of Senserina. Not far down that list is Eric Comrie. Like these guys are actually so alike. It's including working with the coach that I talked about that Devin went up and work with in Colonna this summer, who Mike Condon's also spent some time with.

So I hear you. I understand it. I would interestingly enough, I think Vancouver is a really interesting. case study in the same thing, right? Like for the longest time, like, their young skilled players, the Pedersons of the world, the,

like the emphasis was on. That's all you had to do is succeed offensively. And it's taken coaching changes in time to get them to be a part of the team-wide buy-in defensively. Right. And Pedersen's probably not a fair guy to point out because he's already always had a pretty good two-way game. Yeah.

But as a group, when you look through the besters and some of the other players in this market, like, and that's why, as much as part of me wishes management here had had the courage of its convictions as they were slagging the last coach very publicly

and not liking the way his team played to just make the move sooner I wonder if they would have been able like the next guy up wouldn't have been able to demand the attention to detail that Rick Tocke is asking for now because the group would have been like well look at all the success we had last year

playing the other way without this what a hell are you talking about I think they almost needed to fail playing this way to recognize the need for more structure, and you can maybe make that argument in Buffalo as well. Like it's working to an extent, I worry about, I don't think, honestly, if they get in, I don't think they get away with this in the playoffs. Well, of course not because they'll play Boston in round one.

And then you'll learn about structure. Yeah, which is good. That would be a good humbling experience, and it would be fun. I think they provide much more of a fight, because they can actually score and at least threaten them a little bit in a game-by-game basis, not necessarily over a full series. But yeah, no, I'm really curious.

For a while, I was really talking myself into, I think, the Sabres this summer because they have so much cap space and so much capital, both in terms. Like they have like three second rounders this year. They have all these prospects they've drafted over the past couple years. They can really go and out and acquire anyone they want. And I was like, man, with the way they've played this year, I would love to see them with UC Soros or Connor Hellabuck for a couple years to expedite this process. I'm still interested in that because both those guys.

could theoretically be available this summer just based on where those organizations are headed and their contracts. Okay, so I'll give you this. Out of those two? Yeah. Like, first of all, you can look at the depth chart and you can talk about where Devin fits and what the future is. But if you need a solution next year, and you're looking at high-end talent from a goaltending perspective for the Buffalo Sabres. Yeah. Unless they are going to fundamentally change the way they play, only one of those two goaltenders actually fits the Buffalo Sabres.

And it's UCSor. And it's UCSarles. Yes. Because Connor Hellebuck is the best goalie in the league. if you are coming at him in straight lines. But those numbers, I don't say fall off a cliff, but they drop significantly if we get into East West play. And one of the reasons Eric Commerie's expected Zab percentage is so damn low,

the lowest in the league, is because this team gives up lateral plays like there's no tomorrow. They're one of the worst in the league at it. And so that's a great case in point for not, you can't just plug a good goalie into any team and expect good results. would be very wary of putting a Connor Hellebuck behind Buffalo's system and expecting him to have the type of success he's had in Winnipeg where for all their warts in two of the past three years and when he won the Vazna, they concentrated very well on limiting the lateral plays and

allowing teams to create high danger, but in ways that played to Connor's strength. And this is what more teams should be doing. If you got a goal with very specific strengths, it would make sense to play to them. And I don't think the way Buffalo plays now plays to Connor's. Well, Saros also makes sense from like he's two years younger and has an extra year on his contract. So like Hellebuck next year.

Hellibuck's one more year. Then he's a UFA as a 31 year old. Please don't. No, of course. This is not me slagging Connor. What I hear you saying, though, is to bring this show full circle. Soros to Buffalo, Connor Hallibuck to L.A. Oh, yeah.

That would, that would, yeah. That would be a fit. There is a fit. That would be a business season. Yes, that would be, yeah. We could have a record setting. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right. Kevin, this was a blast. We had so many other. We didn't even get to Minnesota. I had, so, so, okay, because I've had, we can do it quick. I've had wild fans, well, we literally have a minute. I've had wild fans being like, talk about Philip Gustafsson. He has a 9-32 say percentage of season 36 games plus 16 goal save about we expected,

according to sport logic. Give me a quick 60 second, Philip Gustafson take. Philip Gustafson is the only goal tender in the entire national hockey league. for the whole season that has a better expected save percentage than Linus Hallmark. Who should win the Vesna, by the way, everybody on the Ilius Orokin train, sorry, it's not there.

But Gustafin's the only one. Where things get complicated for the wild is in the last two months, he's still number one. But number two in the last two months is Mark Andre Fleury. Is the proven veteran goalie? Mark Andre Fleury. And I swear to God,

if they don't play them both, and give me my goaltending tanem that I've been screaming at, especially given what playing Flurry into the ground has done each of the last two playoffs by playing him too much, even in just one round, I may take a torch to the entire city of Minnesota. Like, I need my goaltending tandem that I've been screaming for years, and this is the perfect example of you could just go back and forth

between those two all the way to a stand the cup. Which guy do you prefer against if they're playing, like, say, Seattle in round one where they're, like, they have a lot of shooting talent now, and they're very like opportunistic, I'd say, in terms of like turning shots into goals. Which one would you prefer in that type of environment? Oh, that's a really tough one. And it goes back to our earlier conversation

on Copley versus Corpus Halla. Corpus Lala is more athletic, but sometimes you can open holes. And so I would actually need to deep dive into the types of chances Seattle crates to get to those shots and then see how that profiles against what Mini gives up and how each of those goaltender strengths varies, say open looks versus cross-ice, one-timers,

the things that sprung and Tolvin and in particular do well. And I think it sounds like we just set up a playoff preview. It sounds like I'm going to have you on the show to do just that. Kevin, give the listeners a quick shout in terms of where they can check you out, although I'm sure everyone listening already knows by now, but still. Kevin is in goal on Twitter, and NHL.com, I've got to call them every two weeks called en masse that focuses on goaltending. But above all else, if you're a goaltender, you want to geek out on goaltending,

or if you're a goaltender, you want to get better at goaltending, and go check out Ingolemag.com. That's Ingole magazine and the Ingoal radio podcast. Drills from NHL goalies, NHL goalie coaches. NHL goalies breaking down video, including Linus Almark explaining why he backs up on purpose on even in-zone point shot play. It's called Recoil.

And it might just be the next big thing for NHL goalies. And you can read all about it at ingolmag.com. What a plug. Very cool stuff. Kevin. This was a blast. Looking forward to talking playoffs with you and geeking out on that. Thank you to everyone for listening to the show as always. We'll be back tomorrow with more.

of the Hockeypedio cast here on the Sportsnet Radio Network.