The Hockey PDOcast - Our Guys for the 2024-2025 NHL Season Part 1

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Thomas Drance to highlight the players they're excited about heading into the upcoming NHL season. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Progressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey-PedioCast. My name's Dmitra Filippovich, and joining me is my good buddy Thomas Drenz. Tom, happy 2024, 25 season to you. We are so back. We're so back. I've had people messaging me recently being like, when is the Hockey-Pedio cast back?

When are the season's starting soon? Guess what? We're here. You're here right now. Right now. We're back. And hilarious. I wish people could see it.

We should have done like a before and after. because we're literally back in the exact same seats. We were the last time you heard from us when we did our season finale, when you and I sat down, we're like, you know what, we're going to spend 50 minutes kind of housekeeping here, just the remaining parts of what happened in free agency.

And then we're like, look at the clock in like an hour and a half it passed. And we're like, whatever, it's July, who cares that we just sent it in and posted it. And so we're back. And all hour,

like it was an hour on the ducks and 30 minutes on the other signings. In classic, when I come on the PDO cast, I promise you, We're always going to spend the bulk of the show on the bottom five teams in the league. Well, and here's the beauty of today. We acknowledge our faults in terms of that race against time and trying to squeeze everything in. And so today we're going to do this as a two-parter.

So we're going to give ourselves enough wiggle room here to get to everything, hopefully, although I'm sure we're still going to wind up badly miscalculating how we divvy up the time. We're doing our guys to start the season. I thought that'd be a really fun way to preview this upcoming season. It's an annual tradition for us. Last year we did it together. I think we've been doing it for a couple of years. Now, essentially, there's no real rules because, as you'll see, like, our list ranges from guys who are already good household names for the most part, but we're just really high on them to niche names. Tom goes into his bag and pulls out just to test that you're still paying attention and test really how hardcore of a fan you are for even myself. I mean, last year you rock me with Braden Bacall. You dropped Jonathan Kovacevich, who might even be making another appearance on your list this year.

I'm not picking Kovacevich again, but I am excited for him in New Jersey, California. I think essentially we agree the only rules here today are these are just players who, regardless of their talent level or production status, it's just players we kind of want to like plant our flag on as like players that we think deserve more recognition and attention maybe that they get sort of from a general consensus. So before we get started, why don't we unpack this a bit? Because I feel like I have some guys that fit into different niches. And maybe we can even structure some of our segments a little bit. No, no, we won't go overboard or anything. given how we usually operate. But maybe we can even structure our segments a bit

because you mentioned the flag plant. I think of the flag plant guy as guy for sure that listeners know and have an opinion on, but who I think's about to go nuke to a to a and hit a stratosphere that they have not previously occupied. And in fact that if you were to tell someone,

I think this person's going to be considered this way in a year, they'd look at you bug-eyed, right? That's the, your brand, Hagleteer. The philosopher. Last year's philosopher. Yeah. And then I've got some other guys. Like I've got sort of template guys.

Guys who I think, I just enjoy watching. Usually it's like play driving wingers with some offensive skill who also win a ton of battles or like defensemen with unique physical attributes. So it's like the guys that I have fun watching. And I want to

vouch for is just like entertainment product. Then I've got the guys who are like roster fringe guys, but I think could step up and make a real impact for their teams, even if at the moment when hockey fans look at their roster on paper, they don't see that vision yet. So I've sort of got three primary tiers. And we can sort of start as you as you'd like, but maybe it makes sense to break these down. I think we should start with that first one, the one that people have actually heard of, because I feel like that'll be a good way to really like lock them in and have them

follow us along for this ride over the next hour and a half or two hours that we're going to be recording. So let's start with that one. I know that you have a name that you're very passionate about that you told me before we started recording. I'll let you go with that one. And then I've got a name that I think is actually in a very similar tier from a production perspective that I think exemplifies exactly what you were saying. Yeah. And I think this is a player that is widely acknowledged to have taken a step last season. But I just think we're scratching the surface. Like I don't think we're close yet to the conversation that we will be having in my opinion. in the next year to 18 months in which this player is like roundly discussed as one of,

if not the best two-way wingers in hockey. I'm talking about New York Rangers winger, Alexis Lafranier. 28 goals last season obviously benefited from the coaching change, which was zero surprise, I think, to those of us who were paying attention to the Gallant era Rangers. Yep. But, man, it's not just the shot. and it's not just some of the East-West creativity that we increasingly see him flash off the rush

as opposed to sort of the more North-South guy that he looked like early on. It's the stuff away from the puck. It's the battles. It's the F-1 work. It's how good he is on the wall. I think this guy is a complete winger. I watch him play,

and I think even though he's already there, I already think he's a top-of-the-line-up caliber, like, play driver. I think there's another level that his, defensive game that his play away from the puck can get to. And I think the sky's the limit in terms of what he can actually produce as a goal score. I mean, he jumped up. He'd never previously hit 20. He hit 28 last season as a goal scorer. And he shot below his career clip. Yep. Like there is, there is a absolute, not just a world where this happens. Like, I think the world we live in where we're talking about Lefrenier as a 35 to 40 goal scorer at the

end of this season where we're hotly debating whether or not he's done enough to be on the team Canada four nations roster, you know, by midseason. I mean, I think this guy's going to tear up the league this year. He's like my number one pick among guys who were not talking about his superstar players yet, but will be in five, six months. Well, especially when you look at how much of that production he had last year, which obviously took a massive step, was still really centralized around like 515 and even strength, right? Because that Rangers power play, which has been has so much continuity and so much success with that five-man unit for years, he hasn't been able to crack that.

And I don't necessarily blame them because they have had so much success. You watched last postseason, it was really driving a lot of their run to the conference final. But speaking of that conference final, I mean, you really saw Lafrenier. He had put it together in the regular season, but there were individual performances against that Stingy Panthers defense. Yes. Where he was able to sort of individually break through. He had that one game in Florida where he scored just a couple of ridiculous individual effort goals. and put all of that talent on display that made him a top prospect first overall pick, right?

It took a couple of years. We're all so impatient for this stuff to happen right away because I think we've been spoiled by some previous number one overall picks. He's still, what, 22, he's turning 23 here in a little bit. I love what I saw from the last year. There's just a change to put him on the other wing to accommodate playing with Panarin and then allowing them to attack off the rush, which is something that he was billed as being the bread and butter of his game,

coming into the league and then we never really got to see like they almost under go and treated them as like a one dimensional sort of like post up player where it's like all right you're going to kind of hang out in the slot or around the net and just tap puck's in and that's all you're going to be allowed to do and he was successful doing so he scored a bunch of goals but then now all of a sudden they like empowered him to carry the puck himself to have that east west passing with panarin and all of a sudden he taps into all of that talent that he had right and it's a beautiful thing to watch well how good do you have to be to play with panarin and also be elevating paner Right? Because obviously Paneran's elevating anyone he plays with. And that was true for Lafranier last season. But I think they hit a level where it was very clear, not just that Panarin helps get the most out of Lafranier, which we all would have been like, yeah, of course, that makes so much sense. But Lafranier is necessary to play with Panarin because he gets more out of Panarin. I mean, once you hit that level as a top of the lineup piece where you're playing with literally the most creative or top three most creative.

of wingers in the sport and you're bringing something meaningful to the table. You're not the passenger. And in fact, you're sort of in that symbiotic, both of you are better together, niche, which he filled with the Rangers last season. Like, I'm really excited for Lafranier's season. I think he's going to lay waste once the puck drops. Well, and that allowed Panera to play more off puck to be more of a shooter than you did in previously, as you're saying, right? And kind of that symbiotic nature between the two them really unlocked everything for them. I'm really excited to watch him keep playing. I think that was a great pick. I have a guy. I have a Are you done on the Lafranier?

Because I have a guy that we can sort of segue to that I think is very similar in terms of top prospect. I think had more initial success because of maybe his landing spot, but then took a bit of a step back in year or two and really rounded into form and really materialized all of that hope that I had for him in year three last year. And that was Lucas Raymond for the Red Wings. This is, I was struggling. Like, I have him number one on my list here.

I was struggling with it because generally you and I kind of pride ourselves on being a bit more hipster and picking guys, which we will later on in the show that are sort of still at the, you can still get in on the ground floor with them. I feel like we already saw Lucas Raymond's breakout happen last year, right? He had 72 points, was already sort of a top flight guy for the Red Wings. But I don't think it's necessarily reflected how good he was down the stretch in his season long numbers because I still don't think that does justice to how he played the last time we saw him, right? In his final 45 games after the new year, he was appointed. He was a point in. game player, 35 of those 44 points came at even strength, which was top 20 in the league.

And I thought in particular down the stretch there where there was sort of fighting for their playoff lives, right? And then in very unfortunate fashion, lost on the final day of the season because John Chororella pulled a goalie essentially and that ended their year. That was why. And I think you and I did a show the next day sort of breaking all that doubt in great detail. If you forget after this long and off season, you can go back and listen to that. But he really put the team on his back, I thought. Like they were running their off offense through him. He was being this two-way playmaker. There were a couple games in particular that really stick in my mind in terms of this projection. One was a game in Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh

was a team they were competing with for that final playoff spot where he had a hat trick on the road and sort of willed them to at least get a point in overtime in that game. Their second final game of the season against the habs, they're trailing with like a minute and a half left. Their season's about to be over. They pull the goalie. He scores and then he wins it off the rush and overtime. And that was just like that type of sort of like individual heroics. I just can't help shake and I feel like that's only a sign of things to come here. And so I'm just incredibly high on this guy. I sort of painted the case from a production perspective. I think just visually and aesthetically watching him, he's such a beautiful player to watch because there's just so much sort of like grace and

effortlessness with the way he moves and sort of maneuvers around the ice. A stat that I love for him is he drew 40 penalties last year and only took 15. And that point. plus 25 penalty differential was only behind Connor McDavid and Tim Stutzla. And those two guys sort of more so exemplify the players who are atop that category usually because they're sort of like pure burners who opposing slower defensemen have to hook them to slow them down a little bit and make it a fair game. I wouldn't say Raymond is in that category. But I think that's exactly makes my point where like he's so nifty and crafty in terms of like

doing a lot of the last Pedersen stuff in a way, right? Where he like puts the puck under your stick, puts it between your feet. You have to. because you're out of position, you wind up holding, obstructing them. And that was such a key for the Red Wing success last year because they were a pretty mid-five team, honestly speaking. But part of their success was they had a really good power play, and he was drawing a lot of those penalties for them.

And then they didn't take a lot of penalties themselves. They were like, I think second in the league and penalty differential as a team, and he was the biggest driver of that. And so for me, like, I just put all that together. And I think I can't help but think that this guy is like a legitimate needle mover who's just embarking upon that journey. Yeah, I think you're right. the Pedersen comp, which you brought up just to discuss sort of the craftiness,

it's also the discipline with which he does simple things. Like, there's flash to his game, obviously. But, you know, a lot of young players, his age, especially young players coming out of Sweden, are like pretty reliant on attacking downhill specifically for, for like the plays in which they look most dynamic. He does so much smart stuff in the buildup. And even just little stuff like the discipline. with which he goes to the net in the offensive zone. I think he's just a really sharp player overall, and I agree with you.

I mean, I think he's just scratching the surface. Shades, if they made the playoffs, we'd talk about sort of his stretch run the way we do, like Ryan Johanson in 2014 or like Jamie Ben, I think the same year, actually. Remember Ben and Johansson just put sort of their teams on their backs that season? This guy has a shot to be one of the league's best two-way wingers for sure. Because of their lack of depth last year, they kind of had to rely on him to sort of keep a second line afloat for large stretches with JT Comfor and then like even David Perron or like whatever winger along with them. And then they played Larkin and to brinket together. But there were stretches where we saw them load up that top line with those three guys. And they generated 4.5 goals per 65.15 playing together. There were 74 forward lines that qualified. They were fifth most in terms of offensive generation there. And so I'm not sure if they necessarily have, like they'll need some of these young guys to step up to allow them to just roll with that line full time. But I've already seen enough from those three together. I'm like,

yeah, they're going to create a lot of goals for a team that doesn't that much at 5-1-5 to begin with. So I think that's really exciting. I just think he's a star. Like, I can't, like, he's like the poster boy for me of breakout guy this year because we saw the flashes of it last year, but it happened down the stretch. And now he's just going to carry it over for a full season entering his prime. And so the Red Wings getting him for what, they got. That extension was up until what age 30? Yeah, brilliant.

I don't, yeah, we've had this conversation. I don't know if I was, if I was his agent, why I would encourage that. I know there's a lot of risk and injury and all that in the game of hockey. But I feel so confident that within a year we're going to be like, I can't believe this guy's making only $8 million. He's a $10 million guy. I agree with you. The, I mean, what, sorry, 43, 5-on-5 points?

Well, he had 35, 35, 35 evens ranked points in the final 45 games, which was top 20. Like it was like within like pure superstar category. Yeah, that's ridiculous. And that's really when he took off in the second half of the year after the new year. So yeah. Well, because I mean, you get 55 on five points. You're like elite basically. And yeah. So no, I think you're right. Raymond's got a chance to fundamentally alter the conversation around him. And he'll definitely play team Sweden during the four nations. I also think that's worth just like as we think about narratives around players. I don't think we should forget the extent to which the Four Nations best on best international competition, replacing sort of the All-Star break with that in mid-February,

how much that's going to dominate conversations about players? It's going to be like, is this guy, should this guy be there? You know, like when a player streaks, that's going to be like the caption, like, has he done enough to put himself in contention for Team Canada? And then, of course, at the tournament itself and in the wake of it. I do think we're going to have a huge amount to which that sort of tournament shapes perception around various guys over the course of this year. Well, not only is the obvious prestige of being picked amongst the top whatever number

of guys from your country of these three, four hockey powerhouses. But I think similar to the point you made about a lot for a year, how like you need to be a certain status, but also regarded by your peers to allow them to like allow you to fill that role, right? like how Panarin was like, I can acknowledge that this guy's good enough that'll allow me to slide off the puck a little bit more here. I love those types of tournaments and those types of showcases because you can sort of see the personalities and the games, how they translate to that when you're all of a sudden like, when you're on the Red Wings, it's like you're clearly one of

their three best players. But now when you're on this team of other superstars, I feel like a guy like Raymond is going to fit very well into that because he can play any role and he can sort of just like move the puck for others and doesn't necessarily you have to be pigeonholed into one specific skill set. And I think that he's going to shine on that stage as well. I think that's going to be sort of like one of the final landing spots of like, all right, this guy's arrived in terms of this stratosphere of player.

Well, and you get the like people look at the lineup on paper and they're like, that guy on the top line and then they see it. And they're like, that guy on the top line. And that will forever stick with them when they talk about that player. A guy in a similar boat to Raymond that I wanted to spotlight here flag plan on. I'm picking a bounce back for this guy and he also signed an extension that I think

we're going to look at as a massive steal this off season and that's Maddie Baneers. We know what happened in his rookie season. We know what that looked like. He was scoring goals that were in a new hockey market. Like fringe iconic moments for this franchise that was sort of

making their first run to the playoffs, pushing the defending champions to the brink. And he played with so much swagger, right? Like he had this physical two-way assertiveness like a, you know, it wasn't Austin Matthews level, but it was reminiscent of it just in terms of the way that he could anticipate

play, win battles. And you know, at the age of 19, I mean, it was ridiculous stuff plus. He had 60 points. Last year was a nightmare. Yeah. Like an unmitigated nightmare. No bounces came his way whatsoever. The offensive production completely fell off. The team was bad. They took a massive step back. And now I think Baneers, as a result, is being slept on a little bit as we enter this season.

You know, when you think about like the best young centerman in hockey, the guys under 26, say, with a shot to sort of level up. It's like obviously you start with Jack Hughes, Elias Pedersen. But there's not a ton of names until you get to like that badard-celebrini class of guy. And I feel like Baneers, you know, among that, like, Nick Suzuki and Tim Stutz-Latier is the best of that group. Like, is the guy with the best chance, in my view, to become, you know, a top 10 centerman, like a Sebastian Aho caliber force in the Western Conference. I think he's going to bounce back. I want to, I'd want to bet on him bouncing back. The Cracken desperately need him to bounce back, right?

He's easily their best, maybe their only shot at how. having like a real blue chip talent in the lineup, a young talent anyway. But I think they have one. Like I think they have one. I think what we saw last year was largely a mirage. And I think he's going to put that sophomore slump behind him and have a great year. Well, I think your colleague and friend of the show, Dom Lushishin did a good job. I think at some point in the season highlighting how like the defensive workload he was assuming, like in terms of like zone starts and like where like through Corey Schneider's tracking, like how often he was having to lug the puck out of his own zone.

start possessions doing all of that hard work, it's really difficult to then also make it to the other end of the ice and finish and finish and create as a top flight score. I think that's why we see teams strategically and very astutely allowing their top players to... Including the Cracken in his rookie year, right? Like his line with Eberley and McCann, like they were, you know, like second or third line minutes,

even in that playoff series against Colorado. Like it's not like he was out there against Nathan McKinnon shift after shift. maybe it was a little too much too soon but I mean I think he's going to be able to hang at the top of the lineup down the line easy to forget that he was just 20 last season right like this is his draft plus three year this season but man he's he's sick he's going to be so good this year yeah I think he's just playing the stock market like unbelievable buy low opportunity here if you can get whatever shares of mattie baneers you can anywhere and while I think you

and I you know we didn't love the investments from a long-term perspective of what they spent on Brandon Montour and Stevenson as like, all right, in years four, five, six of these contracts, what is that going to look like? They still infuse the team with like offensive skill level and a skating ability that I think they were lacking last year as well on the fringes. And so I think it'll be a slightly different game environment for them, coaching change as well. We'll see what all that looks like. But I think there's a lot of like writing on the wall that I don't think last year is all

of a sudden should change our perception after year one of what we saw from them. All right, so I guess you did Maddie Baneers here because I was going to be like, all right, we did Lafranier, we did Raymond. I don't really have anyone else in this tier of like young player who's already shown us this level. I have a few other young guys who I think have definitely shown us flashes, but I wouldn't say have done as much as these guys have. Is there anyone else you have in this tier or do you want to move on to kind of? There's one more guy and I don't know if you think he belongs. I'm sorry, I wouldn't say he belongs with Beneers, Raymond, and Lafranier. But he's a household name enough that I think I can call his breakout and sort of tack it on to this section really quickly.

Who is it? Dylan Holloway. Okay. All right. This is the Dylan Holloway. Make the argument for me. I think he belongs in the next tier that I was going to do because I don't think he's shown enough at the NHL level to justify being in this class, certainly. No, no. These are like, 100%.

Top play. Like, we've seen Maddie Baneers even get 60 points. Like, I think this is a totally different ball game. Lafranier of 55, right? Yes. For sure. I just think, yeah, okay. So do you want to put them aside or do you want to do the-

No, let's do it. I mean, listen, when you put the name out in the ether like this, I feel like we've got to talk about it. When you think about what happened with the Edmonton Oilers in the playoffs last year and how much of the scoring was directly connected to McDavid, right? Like, their leading scorers were like, the defensemen that play most with McDavid at five-on-five. All the guys on Power Play won, all his most frequent line mates.

Dylan Holloway. Yeah. And then a huge cliff in every one. else. And it was like, I just don't think people have quite clued in across the board to what sort of potential this guy has to how much individually he's capable of creating off the rush already. And I think the next layer that his game can go to, I think penalty killings in his future. I think tough assignments are in his future. I think he's a huge loss. Edmonton. I really think they're going to miss that size speed combo on the wings. Podkoulson could help maybe Arvinson will help with the speed, but it's not going to be the same. I think Holloway is a standalone, like, engine that can drive some rush offense is already there.

And with more opportunity in St. Louis, where he'll definitely get more opportunity. I mean, I think you could see a huge spike in production and ultimately maybe even defensive impact, too, because I think he's got that in his game. I think Dylan Hollow is a huge breakout candidate going into the season. No, I'm with you on that because you and I were doing shows after every game in a Stanley Cup final, right? You and I were in Palm Springs. Yeah. We were watching the games. We were recording together.

And that was an observation we kept making. Even if you would make an occasional mistake or whatever, it was like he has a certain level of juice that this team needs more on the margins, right? And so that's going to be a big loss for them. I'm really, it's always interesting because going from that Edmonton situation to now this Blues team that is in full. flux in terms of like, I feel like, you know, you've got the Thomas Kairout here, but then there's also just a land of opportunity as well, right? It's kind of like this mismatch group of players. And if he's able to take that opportunity and run with it,

I certainly see a lot of room for growth here with him, right? Now, if he doesn't play with those guys, it's also going to be like a talent drop off in terms of his surroundings and environment as well. And also just general, like, game scripts of, like, playing with this high octane Oilers team to all of a sudden now slugging it out with his blues team. team, I think it's a different...

Although a Blues team that's excelled rush tacking. Like, I feel like... It has, yeah. It's almost... And it's forward driven as well, right? Because we don't like their blue line at all. Not particularly... Although, you know, I'm stubbornly holding all my Pareko stock and Will to the grave.

But the Holloway factor, I mean, to some extent, if he'd joined the blues when Barubei was still behind the bench and we were confident that they were going to be like a top five shooting percentage team and just like only take efficient rush shots, he would have been perfect for that system. They didn't play too much differently though after the coaching change last year. So I'm hopeful that we still get to see like lots of Robert Thomas Holloway

Cairo off the rush. I think if we do, not that that team has a chance to be, I'm not going to go so far as to say like interesting, but I definitely think he can eat from a point production standpoint. I like that call. All right, let's take our first break here. And then when we come back, we'll jump right back into our guys. We're going to switch tiers and talk

about I think some young upstart guys who I think haven't shown this much yet, but I think there's definitely a reason to get excited about. You're listening to the Hockey P.D. Ocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. All right, we're back here on the Hockey P.D.O.cast, joined by Thomas Dr. Rance. We're doing our season debut here. By the way, Tom, it's year 10 of the hockey Pedyo cast. I realized that as I was preparing today. So we've been through a lot here on the show. Yes, thank you. Hopefully it'll be the best one yet. And hopefully people come along for the ride with us. I really appreciate everyone listening. We're doing our guys.

We did some big name young guys who have already shown us a lot, but I think still have room for growth. Now we're going to take a little bit of a step back and talk about a younger tier of players who haven't shown us as much yet, but we're really high on. Do you want me to start off this tier, or do you have a name that's sort of you're just waiting to jump out with? No, I mean, I've gone three.

You've gone one. Okay. I feel like I got a fair. You're leading the way here. I got a seed. I got to cede the ground to you. All right. I'm going to give you a player that I know you like.

So I'm going to reel you in right here with this. Zach Benson. Yeah. So he's on my list. Here's the thing. Modest offensive production on the surface, right? You pull up his elite prospects page. It's like, all right, 11 goals, 30 points.

Nothing necessarily that's going to just blow you away. When you apply the context of 18-year-old season, straight out of the WHL as an undersized player, 26 of those 30 points were also at 5-1-5. I just think, okay, first off, he showed enough kind of flashing that high-end outrageous skill that made him a top prospect, right, despite whatever size concerns you still have, which are obviously ridiculous in 2024. And he certainly, I think, addressed all of those with, which is how he was able to essentially play the exact same way against grown men. We also need to differentiate between guy is small and guy is 18. I think you say guy is small and guy is short Because I also think like

He's just built He's 510 Yes Well He's 510 59 510 Yeah He's on his dating profile or in real life

I'm 511 on his dating profile Come on Um No I mean he's 59 510 Like he's not He's not 56 He's not 58 You know what I mean

He's 5 9 510 And he's skinny He's slender But is that small Or is that 866 You know what I mean? Like I think at the end of the day, if you're falling in a draft process because you're skinny, it's like that's going to change by the time you're 22.

But the fact that you're better at hockey than a lot of the guys getting drafted ahead of you is not. Yep. No, of course. Well, the point I was making was if you watch. I knew you weren't making the point. No, no. But I do think like stepping into defense. Listen, obviously, obviously in the modern game, I think it's just such an entirely different product that a lot of those concerns you might have had five,

15 years ago that probably were valid at the time of a player of this stature coming into the league aren't really a thing anymore. I do think, I thought the point that you were going to sort of differentiate there was there's like undersized skill guys who are perimeter based and like don't want to get involved as much that I do think it's like, all right, I think that player can still be very useful and probably shouldn't fall that much in drafts because they have the skill level to at least be a middle six contributor, but they're probably not going to be a top flight difference maker. And then there's guys who, are small, but they're the most fearless competitive guy on the ice, and it doesn't really

matter because they're not trying to go up for rebounds in an NBA game. It doesn't matter how tall they are. And in this case, you watch him play, and he just essentially went from WHL, stepped on an NHL ice, and just kept playing the same way. And he was just living around the net, getting in people's faces. He is such a menace. Like, he just lives to antagonize. You could see that guys, as the year was going along, we're just getting increasingly frustrated with dealing with this guy just constantly buzzing around them, chirping, trying to poke at them. Stick in lanes, always on the forecheck.

The forecheck, just so many turnovers. But he's a dog. He's a dog. Caps, D-O-G, dog. But also, then you mix in, like, the motor is great. I love that, and that's what attracts me to him. But then the first goal he scores,

goes through the legs, the score against the caps. He scores another goal later in the year where he's falling on the ice against the. Kings and as he's doing so drags the puck around and scores his beautiful goal. And it's like, all right, you put that together with just ridiculous hands and creativity that's surely going to keep kind of growing and developing as he becomes more comfortable at this level. And I just think the world of him as a player.

And I just think he's that you can't fail without fearlessness and competitiveness with the skill level that he flashed. And so I'm expecting really big things from him. I hope I'm not, you know, you and I have this joke about the ducks, particularly where every year we come on for these previews and we're like, this is the year. And we made the mistake last year, right? We got so excited about both the sabers and the devils and we're going to fall into that trap again. But with a player like him, playing with Dylan Cousins, I just really feel like the sky's the limit here, right? From a two-way perspective, we already saw that by 5-1-5, post-good

underlying results together, but I think that's going to translate into even more goals and offense for him. And so give me a year to Zach Benson and I just want to be along for the ride. Give me also Zach Benson executing Lindy Rough-Ruff-style Warp Speed hockey like we saw from the New Jersey Devils

in the 2022-2020 season. I don't think you could design a player in a lab better suited to playing specifically that way. And when you add in, you know, not that these are the sexiest names,

but Obey Kubel, Lafferty, McLeod. Your boy, Beck Malenstein. Beck Malenstein. Heck yeah. Honestly, a consideration for this my guys list. I'm not even joking. But you throw in a bunch of guys who are large, rangey, you know, 96th percentile skaters. I mean, this team made the right ads if they want to play the way that the devils did when they had success in that, you know, rough brunette season. And I hope we see it. I hope we see them try to execute that because.

man, I think that would bring out the best in Zach Benson's game. Here's the other thing. You come into the league at 18. You have 25 plus 5 on 5 points. You do incredible stuff. Like you jump off the tape. And most of the players you play with do far better with you than they do with other linemates. Like you're pacing to be a star level player. You are pacing to be a star level player. Zach Benson might take the step sooner than we think might happen.

this year. I think so. I think he's going to be a clear beneficiary of that more up tempo system they're going to play. I think he's going to be able to stand out in it and I'm in. I'm in. I'm too. Like, he's just such a disruptor. I'm actually mad that you got to say his name because. I want the record to show maybe after we finish the show we can we can make, we can put together our respective lists and I want it to be clear that he's clearly on my list and not on yours. Yeah. You're not actually, you're not that big on Zach Benson. I'm trying to plan my flag here. Um, no, I think I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm really excited. but I'm just love that disruption of it.

And honestly, I think you could copy paste this for Logan Stancoe. And the reason I didn't have him on my list is just because we spent three rounds in the spring, documenting it after every game. And I think people listen to this are like, all right, I get it. You loves Logan Stancove. And so it's not necessarily only groundbreaking there, but a lot of these similar concepts we just applied. Obviously, he's a little bit older. But all the same stuff we just said about why we love, like the foundation of his game and how that translates to this level.

Apply that to Logan Stancoven and just put his. name on this list as well. I think what's funny though is and it's actually I think worth focusing on because Stankovin plays in the middle of the ice and Benson plays on the wing. And I think Benson could play center, but whatever. I like him on the wing. I think you see a lot of the same stuff that you see from Benson in terms of the doganness, the sort of like pick pocket pressure stuff that Benson applies as an F1. You see a lot of that from Stankovin. It's just in the neutral zone because he's the F3, right? You see so many like guy thinks they have it and is going the other way. sticks lifted and Stankovans going the other way.

You see so much of that from Benson. It's just when Benson does it, it's down low, simply because of where they play. But I think they've got a similar game in some ways in terms of that. Yeah, they might be undersized, but that work great, that defensive IQ, that ability to dominate the puck and to come out of the wall, off the wall with the puck, which is a key marker of toughness that is there and there in spades.

Well, and the thing that I love about these guys is, You know, kind of a trickle-down effect of what's happening in today's game of like, and I think it's a net positive is Defenders being more offensively oriented, right? Like these guys who move the puck and are just playing downhill north-south and focusing on offense is I think it's a net positive. But what's happened is now all of a sudden these guys like it's a living nightmare for them to deal with a Logan Stankov and or Zach Benson because the last thing they want to do is be standing. around their own net having this like undersized guy just like poking and prodding them and trying to like box out for positioning and just making just like bugging them the entire time right they want to

be on the offensive more themselves and they're almost like turning the tables on in there so I think that just open a door for guys like this to just completely thrive in a whole new sort of like like they're living around in the high danger area these two guys right despite their size like they're almost if you just look at their shot chart and like how some of these plays are finishing their powerful words in a little person's body. 100%. Pines-sized. That's the Pedersen descriptor for Niels Hoaglander that I think we should just appropriate to everybody.

Pint-sized power forward. Okay, who's next on your list? Do you have anyone from this tier of like young guys? I literally had Benson written down on my list and accompanied by a slash Logan Stancovin and then by a slash two more names because I saw all three. four of these guys as like guys that I didn't need to flag plant necessarily. I think there's high expectations, a lot of hype around them, but guys that I just wanted to shout out as guys I love watching, guys I think can take a

huge step. And the first one, and you know, not that it's like hipster at all to pick the 101 for this, but I don't think we're ready for Macklin Celebrini. I feel like he's been one of the least hyped first overalls we've seen in a long, long time. I think there was Bodard fatigue. And I think the fact that like team Canada didn't crush the world juniors like I don't know what it is, but it's felt quiet around Celebrini. And I just don't think hockey fans are prepared yet for how NHL ready his game is. I don't think they're prepared yet for the fact that he does some like Jack Hughes light stuff as a puck carrier

through the neutral zone. And I definitely don't think people are ready yet for the fact that his one timer, the way that his one timer is going to play from the right flank from day one is going to make him one of the most dangerous one-timer threats in the league immediately. And so you put that together plus the defensive IQ.

He's got actual defensive IQ. So, you know, he's not as dynamic as Hughes off the rush, but there's elements of that in his game, right? He's not as good a shooter as you know, whomever, whatever lefty sniper you want to pick. You want to pick Patterson. Fine.

It's not as, but, but he's, got elements of that in his game and it's all pro ready now. I just, I don't think people are ready for how much fun the celebrating experience is going to be right off the hop this season. Yes, I agree. I think picking the guy who just went first overall is not something I would have done. But I had good reason to do it. No, and I think it's fair because people just aren't ready for it.

And also like this shark team has been so bad. for a couple of years now that I think there's been just a lot of sort of like hope loss in that regard as well right it's like oh god the sharks and and like last year it's like watching them is just such a miserable experience there's so little talent here I feel so bad for william mecklin there's no one around him and then all of a sudden you're dropping him in you're dropping will smith in right like there's Tyler to Foley baby Tyler to Foley Alex Wemberg at least there's like actual professional hockey players now and guys with like legitimate skill as well and so yeah I'm really excited like we're gonna do our watchability ranking

To tease it here, like, I think on Sunday or Monday next week. And the sharks are probably going to be much higher on our list than they're going to finish the standing similar to the way the Blackhawks were last year because it's almost a poignant viewing to see this guy take his strides and already sort of flex his muscles and spread his wings the way you're expecting him to do the way you just laid out. Yeah, it's going to happen fast and I think it's going to catch people by surprise, which is why I included him. The other name that I had in this tier was Logan Cooley.

Okay, let's do him because I, I, have his teammate. Yeah. So actually line mate. Dylan Gunther. Yes. Let's go. Okay.

Give me your coolie case and then I'll jump in. He was so good in the second half last year. And to level up like that as a player with all that was going on around that team, I mean, it was a joke. And to stay focused and play your best hockey as a very young man in that environment, I do sort of give both Gunther and like they're never going to have a season. where they're dealing with as much BS as they dealt with last season. And they still looked like top line talents, you know, just under the age of 21.

I mean, what are we talking about here? These guys have a shot, I think, to form one of the most exciting lines in the Western Conference right now from day one of this season. And they're going to have so much more help around them, not just in terms of like a credible NHL-level infrastructure. and support in a far more stable situation in Salt Lake City, even if there are year one growing pains, and there's always going to be year one, like organizational growing pains. That's a fact of life for new owners,

but also for new markets, new teams. That said, when you consider what they've done on defense, how many more passes. Cooley's going to get like in stride this season. And the fact that him and Gunther are a year older and grown up together and already have unbelievable chemistry

and are already like honestly, especially once Gunther joined, elite point producers, like elite point producers. Gunther, I mean, I'll kick it to you to talk Gunther, but if you extrapolate Gunther's scoring pace over a full season, it's like, oh my God, are we talking about, you know, like a guy we're going to be talking about the way we used to talk about Rick Nash over the next two years? I think there's an absolute possibility that we are. Well, I do think the timing is very convenient there because, Right, Cooley, right out of the gate, immediately put all his cards on the table in terms of, like, this is the skill I have, right?

Like, even in that debut against the Devils, I did, like, a full mixtape of just his first game because he did, like, seven things where I was like, this is high level stuff. And then he struggled, especially from a 5-15 underlying perspective, right? Like, I think the rigors of the NHL, the lack of talent around him, it's understandable that he'd be living in that, like, low 40s percentage range of, like, all of his shot and chance shares and everything. Gunther makes his debut, what, January 7th, right? He gets called up. They put those two guys together. All of a sudden, breaking even if I won five, everything. I'm not necessarily attributing that just the Gunther,

because I do think it makes sense that it took Cooley, 30, 40 games to, like, get his legs under him and kind of figure out that he's playing an entirely different world here. But man, when Gunther came in, so he makes that debut, January 7th, plays 45 games from that point, scores 18 goals, which was the same number as McDavid and Matthew Kuch. on a permanent basis, the same amount of goals as Dreisaitel and William Nealander. Shot a perfectly reasonable 15% I thought for his skill level as well, right? Like he's probably going to be, I want him to be a volume shooter because that shot is just insane.

But, man, I think Utah, I think it was an acknowledgement on their part that they know what they're sitting on here in terms of what caliber of weapon he is, that he's going to be playing this year on his ELC, right? like he's playing he's making sub 900k and then immediately steps into a contract that's going to be paying him 7.1 for a million until 2033 and that's going to be worth every penny similar to what we just said about raymond like i feel very good on betting on this type of player and this profile for those years at that rate which in a couple of years is going to be a laughable number for a 40 plus goal score right and that's i think what he's going to be that release man i'm going to i'm going to have to do a cut up of all of his shots last year because he's going to be because that release is so pure. He gets it off so quickly. He gets so much velocity on it. And I know there was a stretch where, like, I think fans of the team and people watching were like, oh, man, I wish you would hit the net more.

I'm like, I'm okay with him missing the net because he's trying to hit top corner here as opposed to just shooting it into the goalies crest. He's actually trying to do something significant with these shots. And when it connects, it's a thing of beauty. It just reminds me watching him how much I wish the NHO would just let water bottles fly off after goals because he was made for that era of hockey

to just like single handle of these polarizing and embarrassing making goalies do the walk of shame to pick up their just crushed water bottle behind the net man and that power play right him on the left circle you got Surgichov manning the point now

Keller working that cross-ice action Schmaltz Hayden or whatever big body they want to put in front of the net whether it's Krales or McBain they could do whatever they want there but man all of a sudden now I expect that to be one of the more fun five-man units to watch. Yep.

And him as that shot is going to create so much weapon or so much space for everyone else because it's like, I think there's enough on tape already that if you're an opposing team scheming penalty kill-wise against this Utah hockey club, I think plan A is don't let Dylan Gunther get that shot off cleanly. He's already really powerful, but he's also pretty slight still. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, he's not put on some muscle for sure.

I think a lot of muscle. I think that frame is going to be very different. but he, I love the player type of super long physically assertive scoring winger, right? I think he's got a shot to be, you know, not, I don't want to like, you know, the comp that always, that I always think about when I watch him play is, is sort of like a right-handed version of patcheretti, but, but, you know, maybe less volume reliant, maybe a little bit more efficient as a converter, which isn't to disparage Patriety. love the way he did it. He was the most consistent scoring winger for a long time in the

NHL. But I think he can be that level of player. And I think he can be that level of player sooner than later. That team is going to be a ton of fun. I think that's a team with, you know, not to not to cheat on my ducks or anything, but that's that's the team that I'm most interested to see as a real Western Conference dark horse, like a team that I think could actually upset the apple cart in terms of the pecking order out west this season. Especially you look at last year and how that season sort of developed for them, right? Like they're very competitive. They were in the mix.

And then the news, like, it all started seeking in the reality. Yeah. It's like, all right, I don't know where I'm living next year. And all of a sudden, they just fell out there, that massive losing streak that completely submarine their season. But you saw the makings of the young talent there. And then they invested in the team this off season. While we're on the topic, shout out Sean Jersey. We were joking before we went on the air about how he's not on our list.

But you could argue he's the reason why we do. this type of show because there has never been more of an R guy than the absolute chaotic beauty of Sean Jersey being the best player for either team. And so I just, I love Sean Jersey. I love him in this situation as well, right? Because all of a sudden now, they had so little blue line talent there last year. And they, you know, I think by design, because of the uncertainty, hadn't invested anything in terms of who was going to be on that depth chart moving forward. And then they trade for Marino, they trade for Surgachev, and now I think he's probably even in a better suited role for his skill set where he doesn't necessarily need to like log this heavy burden.

He can just be Sean Dersey. And I think that's going to fit perfectly with the vibe of what this team's trying to accomplish and what we're so excited about. I've got one more former coyote Utah guy. He doesn't belong in this tier of player, but should I just like include him or should I save him for the hipster section? No, let's go. Let's go here.

Oh, I'm just, it is. It is, it is Jack McBain. Yeah. And if you don't watch a lot of Western Conference hockey And I'd imagine a lot of listeners watch less coyotes than they watch of other teams This guy's This guy's an absolute player Like he is not just a six foot three stiff by any means

Actually reliable defensively Although his I think his standout skill is actually just the size mixed with creativity Like six threes, 220 pounds he's got a proper mean streak. He's a genuine center. I think he's just scratching the service. He's still like 23. Like he's a college free agent, so it seems like he should be older.

He's not. He's got real potential, I think, to level up significantly this upcoming season. And I think he will. I think he's a lot for teams to handle. And you can see it every time you watch him. Every shift. Like just a really smart player. who does that thing where, you know,

the really, really good, really physical centerman. I mean, we've seen some high-end players who dominate in this way. He, by no means does that, but he's really good at like waiting, saving his energy, picking his spot to just completely destroy a possession. And it's just like to shift after shift after shift

when you watch him play, he's getting that done. It's a ton of fun. Well, and if you're in the, if you're in the PDOCAST Discord, which I will talk more about later, there's a frequent poster in there named Pixies. And he just,

constantly is talking about Jack McBain, and now I'm wondering if that's actually your burner. I'm a big McBain guy. Yes. Well, you lit up as soon as I mentioned him as a potential net front guy on that power play. I hadn't even considered power play production in my McBain breakout take. Still doesn't have a power play point in his career. This is why I bring it up, because two years ago, right, down the stretch, when they put

Hayden with Keller and Schmaltz, he really succeeded that role. Then he got hurt at the start of last year, and that really set him back. You saw Krause really succeed as a goal. goal score feeding off of Machelli's passing. They have all of these sort of pure, like, high-end skill guys on this team that they've drafted highly and invested in that are going to make plays for you. And if you're a capable big body that can get to the right spots and has a bit of that ability to think the game at that level and then execute off of it, I think you're going to succeed in the situation. And so that's why I just say that, I don't know if you will, but the door is open

for guys like that in terms of that body type to ride shotgun with some of these passers and score a bunch of goals just because they get to share the ice with them. Well, yeah. I mean, Krause, I think, is a better finisher, but I think McBain has better puck skills. So I think it could work. Anyone else on this tier of guys that you want to talk about? I mean, other than Jack McBain? I've got a couple that are like fringe.

I mean, maybe it's like a slight step down. Yeah. But, like, would you consider Adam Ventilly to be in this tier? More unproven, right? Yeah, but because of pedigree and also what we, like, we saw like flashes last year, right? I don't think we need to, like, say too much about it. It's just like, clearly that guy has the juice. Yeah, the physical skills.

It's unbelievable. He had a few games. I think it was a game against the Islanders he had last year. We're just like, oh, my God. Like, um, Marco Rossi. Yep. I think Marco Rossi sort of belongs in this tier two, really nice rookie season. And yet I think because he's sort of, um, kind of in that mold, actually,

that like undersized, slightly perimeter oriented skill player, I, I think people, people aren't cluing into how impactful he is yet. I think that changes very quickly this year because I don't think he's that perimeter oriented. I think there's a core of steel to his game. I think there's a two-way core to his game too. I think he's a player that can take a big step this year. So those would sort of be two guys kind of on the fringes of this tier that I definitely want to point to. I see a ton of potential there and I'm excited to watch both play. I think they both have a ton of juice. I'm a fan of both. I want to expand more on that, but let's, we're going to put a pin in it here.

We're going to jump to part two of the show. We're going to take another break. And then when we come back, we're going to get into another whole swath of names. So looking forward to that, you're listening to the HockeyPedio cast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.