The Hockey PDOcast - Rangers in Crisis Mode, Hagel for Four Nations, and Penguins Plans

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Emily Kaplan to check in on where the teams whose game broadcasts she's done recently are at, including the Rangers, Lightning, Penguins, Blackhawks, and Flyers.  If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Dmitra Filippovich and joining me back on the show. First time this season, my good buddy, Emily Kaplan, Emily, what's going on? I'm good. And you and I are seeing each other on video. Your listeners can, and I'm just getting over the whole new Dmitri vibe right now. It's the glasses, the blonde hair.

You are 100% right now. I really, I dig it. Perfect for radio. You're coming to us straight from your, from your, from your, uh, from your television set to our podcast feed. I'm excited about this. Um, I've been meaning to have you on for a while and I know your schedule is really busy. As you were saying before we went on, it's lightened a little bit here in terms of the broadcast

in November. So I thought it was a good time to have you on. The plan for today is we're going to go through some teams you've recently cross paths with been part of in terms of the coverage for the ESPN broadcast and kind of check in with where they're at. And I thought a good place for us to start. would be the New York Rangers because obviously they are sort of top of mind right now in terms of a lot of the trade discussions in terms of a lot of like what's going on with them and trying to figure out and decipher their play. They already seem to be sort of entering, in my opinion, a full-blown crisis mode to start the week on Monday morning, following all the reports that they were actively engaging in the trade market, kind of following what happened when they played out in Western Canada over the weekend on the road.

And then they go out on Monday night and they lay another. their egg. They get skated off the ice by the Blues. Now, obviously, it was Jim Montgomery's debut behind a bench for St. Louis, and I think you would have expected an elevated play from them, right? That new coaching bump. I also think both of us agree. He's a pretty good coach, especially in terms of X's and O, so I expect them to be better than they've been moving forward, but it was still for a Blues team that's kind of struggled themselves offensively this year. It was by far their best offensive output in terms of shots, chances, everything across the board. And this is continuing a theme for the Rangers right now. So I want to

talk to you a little bit about what's going on in New York and kind of what you're hearing as well in terms of following up on some of these reports, how actively involved they actually are, or if this is just a matter of sort of your classic midseason message sending where it's like, we're not happy with our place, so we're going to make sure everyone knows it, but nothing's probably going to happen. Where are you at between those two sort of extremes? I think they would like something to happen. I think that you say they're in crisis mode, first off, like from the outside, if you weren't paying close attention to the Rangers, you would see a team that has gone on some long playoff runs that has Igor Shusirkin looking

like a stud back there. Yes, they're letting up a lot of shots. All of a sudden, you're like, wow, Capo Caco looks like he's a piece of our future. Look at Alexis Lefranier. We have a 658 win percentage. Everything is fine. But again, some of this is kind of like self-inflicted. And I think it's because management and ownership are both looking at this team saying, does this core have the DNA that we need to finally get over the hump and win a Stanley Cup? I think that they started to answer that question last year. The answer was no. And we probably should have listened a little harder when Jacob Truba comes back to training camp and basically is like, this is our last dance. He knows why. And it's because the vets on this roster himself included

are kind of on call right now of, hey, step up or we're going to transition this thing sooner and you're not going to be on board. So anytime a leak like Elliot's gets out there where they're shopping in big names like Jacob Truba, your captain, Chris Kreider, who some people consider Mr. Ranger, who's been so, so consistent for you for so many years and so reliable as a score, they get out there for a reason. So I think part of it is message sending. I do believe that Chris Drury is actively talking to his other GMs about moves they could make. It's just at this point in the season, it's so hard to pull off a blockbuster.

It's hard to pull off those blockbusters over the summer, let alone now, let alone with two players. who have 15 team no movement clauses too. So you're really working with their camps to find a good fit. So I don't think we're going to see like this seismic trade in the next couple days. Famous last words completely come after me if they do. But I do think that everybody's on call in New York of like, hey, we got to figure something out because where we're at right now, you can't be complacent with it. Yeah, that's an interesting point you make there because I think on the surface,

if you just pulled up the standings page on NHL.com or whatever app you use. It's like, all right, well, they're 12, 7-1-1 on the year. They're 9th, I believe, in the league in point percentage. A lot of teams would take that as their reality right now. I think the reason why I said they're in crisis mode is partly, I think, the elevated expectations for this team, right, considering how good they were last regular season, their run to the east final, I think in general,

coming into the year and feeling like whether they're going to take a step or not, at least they're going to be at that same baseline. And I think it's also a reflection, though, of looking around the Metro division around them, right? Because I say that the Rangers are the ninth in point percentage. Three of the teams ahead of them are the Carolina Hurricanes, the Washington Capitals, and the New Jersey Devils, who they're competing with directly for playoff seating. And all those teams are playing at a much higher level right now, I think, look a lot better to my eye when I watch them play. And now you've got the next Rangers game after I just said they had this difficult one against St. Louis.

is on Wednesday night at Carolina. And for my money, I can't think of a worse team to have to go play, especially on the road than this Hurricanes team, that if you're struggling or your game isn't on point, they're just going to pressure you and make everything so much worse for you. And they themselves are playing remarkably well as well, right? On Monday night, they score the five goals in the third period against the stars to come back and win that one.

So you just kind of look ahead and it's like, all right, how much worse can this get before it gets better? just at least directly in the short term, this upcoming game is probably a pretty concerning one for me. And I kind of wonder if this trend continues with the Rangers playing the way they have, especially defensively, where this goes over the next,

maybe not a couple of days, but certainly weeks and months leading up to the trade deadline. Yeah, and it's funny, because I had a couple of Rangers games early on the season when they were cruising, and it's just like, yeah, this is a team that's on cruise control. They know what to do.

Share, like, some things with the defense just, like, haven't looked quite right. And you see Peter Lavulet going around with the pairings. Why are they letting up so many shots? But you've got Igor Shisterkin, and I really have to include Jonathan Quick, because of how well he's played the last two years, that cover up a lot of your mistakes, a lot of bright spots, if you're the Rangers, and you're like, okay, we had one of the best young lines, best lines in hockey in Will Cooley and Philippeel and Capo Caco, who were not even allowing opponents to score when they were on the ice.

Now, okay, we're a little concerned about Hedel's health, but like you put Caco in the middle, and I mentioned it earlier, all of a sudden, you're like, oh, he's not. got some value. Like he's finally looking like who we thought we were drafting with that number two overall picks. So a lot of positives there as a deal with. But like you mentioned, just something's a little bit off. And I think the easiest place to point it typically is with coaching. That's why coaches are the sacrificial lamb entered Jim Montgomery in Boston. I don't think they're done with Peter Lobbya yet. I think he brings a really good structure last year. I just kept complimenting them as such a well-coached team, a team that completely bought in that you knew what their identity is.

So then the next place that you go as a pressure point, some of your veterans. And again, I think some of these names leaking out there are not by accident. It's either to get them going or seeing if we can figure out somewhere to get them going somewhere else. Yeah, I think generally since last year, I've kind of noted that their defense has taken certainly a bit of a step back. And this year is obviously the extreme. But even last year, when they were struggling a little bit in that middle portion of the season, a lot of it felt by design, right? Because previously under Geraglant, they were such a sort of sitting back and counterpunching teeth. And so they would just have these nights where it would be like, all right, well, our goalie's going to need to bail us out.

And then we're going to be very opportunistic. And I think Peter Leveolette realized the limitations of that. So when he came in, he very strategically opened their game up, right? They became much more of an attacking team off the rush. I think Alexei Lafranier's development and emergence into a legitimate running mate with our Temi Panera and certainly helped that. And he was getting a lot out of these forwards on their team. But then you look this year. And I got to give you a couple of stats just to kind of highlight where we're at with them right now and why.

I think people are panicked about their play. The past three games, 49 shots on goal by the flames, including 37 in the first two periods, 40 by the Oilers on that Saturday night on Hockey Night on Hockey, and Canada in the first two periods. And then 43 by the Blues.

And the Blues are a team that's 30th in the league right now in generating shots themselves offensively. I just said Jim Montgomery took over. They got Rob Thomas back as well. I think they're a bit better than that. But there's some highly alarming trends there. And for the year, the Rangers are 31st and shots allowed,

only the ducks give up more. They're 31st and expected goals against. The 30th and high danger chances allowed. They're 31st in a rush chances against. You can stop me now. But pretty much every single stat across the board, it's like it's them. It's the habs, the penguins, and maybe the ducks in terms of bottom defensive metrics. And so I think all of that stuff is certainly worrisome.

I'm not, I don't think it's necessarily coaching. I think it's a personnel thing. I'm curious to see where they go. I'm also curious for your take on this because you mentioned sort of the mixing. and matching with pairings, right? And I thought in the past, they really had Adam Fox and Ryan Lingren as a solidified pair, and they were riding those guys. And then you'd have Keondry Miller with Jacob Truba. This year, at least out of the gate, kind of by necessity because Ryan Lingram broke his jaw and wasn't himself and wasn't even available at the start. They played

Keondry Miller with Adam Fox. And the two looked really good. And then they had this stretch where I think they kind of like reverted back to old reliable that they previously had. And the numbers and the eye test just didn't really match up with that decision. So maybe that's something that I would nitpick in terms of coaching or decisions they'd done. But I don't know. What's your take on kind of the situation, I guess, with the defense and sort of where this blame goes because we're at 20, 25 games now of them being essentially a bottom three defensive team.

And having you're just certain is great, but I don't think that's where they want to be. Yeah. I think also you just kind of have to look holistically of the market because you have to remember that not every team is dealing with the same deck of cards in terms of how vocal your owner is, the pressure to win if you can withstand or rebuild, or if there's this pressure to go for it every year. And both the Rangers and the New York Knicks are owned by James Dolan. Look at what the Knicks did this summer. Like they had a really good team and they kind of just made trades.

It almost felt like for the sake of making trades to shake up the roster and they're still a really good team. But I was like, whoa, like those are some curious moves. And I think sometimes with the Rangers, it's best when they're just crucially. and ownership's not involved, but sometimes there gets to be pressure on Chris jury of like, hey, why do I not have a Stanley Cup yet? Like, what's going on? And so I think they've thought as an organization, I've definitely heard they're plotting a little bit in the head. They look at the free agents that become available, not just this summer, but I think the summer after that, and they're saying, okay, who's our next superstar that we can have and sign

and create a team around them? And I think because of the complacency that they feel the team has of just getting it only so far in the playoffs, they're already pushing this thing way ahead, maybe even writing off this season if they can't get it going and thinking, how are we going to retool this really quickly so we can win that quite quickly? Well, Crider came up in that trade report,

and obviously he missed that most recent game against the Blues with an upper body injury. I've seen a lot of the stats floated out about how he has zero assists this season, right? He's got the nine goals, certainly. I always say this on this show, but I think it bears repeating here in particular, coaches say a lot of stuff to the media and they give a lot of quotes and a lot of it is like by design either they're trying to send a message or they're like trying to portray something in a certain light. I think just purely looking at player usage tells you everything you need to know about how they feel about their players actually, right? Because that's what they get to control and that's really telling on terms of like where they're at with them. And you look this year and quietly I think Mika Zabinajad and Chris Kreider, which has essentially been a 1A or 1B combination.

for them up front along with Panarin and Lafranier is all the way, they're all the way down to eighth and ninth in terms of five on five usage amongst Rangers forward. So they're essentially using them as a sort of bottom of the barrel third pair or third forward line. And those guys play special teams certainly and have big roles there. But I think that's another part of this as well, right? Because it's not just the defense that's struggling.

So much of the offensive burden has obviously been on Panarin, but also guys like Will Cooley and Hito while he was healthy and Caco sort of stepping up at 5-1-5, but I think a bigger issue for me moving forward, and this is something we saw that was, I think, they're ultimately their undoing in that Panther series in the East Final was trying to get that combination in particular going at 5-1-5 because they just weren't getting any offense from them. Now in that series, it was Zabin-a-Jadvers, Barkov and Forzling. That's a really tough draw for anyone, and he certainly took the brunt of that, but they're not getting nearly enough out of them 5-1-5 this year as well. And so I wanted to note

that as one of my reasons of kind of like, I'm a little bit concerned. about this and I want to track it moving forward. And I'm curious to see what they do to sort of, I guess, either reinvigrate that or try to get it going because it's been a bit of a bugaboo for over a year now for them. Yeah. And, you know, Zabanajad has kind of been a punching bag, I think, for the fan base for a couple months now, probably dating back to last season. He's had a couple lapses.

And then every once in a while, he gets going again and he's engaged and you're like, this is why he's such an elite player in this league. And I think that he and Chris Kreider have such a great chemistry. they're really good friends off the ice. Sometimes we just kind of link the two of them together. But I do think a lot of their core issue does begin with those core players who, let's face it, are kind of aging on the wrong side of their prime right now, and which is why I'm kind of hinting at I think Rangers management and ownership is already

kind of looking two, three years ahead in the future of saying, okay, we've been drafting really well. We've got some homegrown stars. Like, who's the star that's going to push us over the edge? And going back to their old days of always going after the splashy free agent, a large, how me Panarin? All right, that's a very interesting little tidbit there. My one final note on the Rangers, then we can move on.

I did want to shout out Will Cooley. I haven't spoken much about him on the show this year. All he's been doing is crushing it. I think clearly a sober lining or a big point of emphasis for them. He's got 16 of his 17 points at 5-15 this year, which are tied for ninth most in the league. With him on the ice in combination with Capo-Caco, their outscoring team 16 to 1 in their 183 minutes again.

with him and Philip Hito before Hito got hurt, that was 12-0-0 in terms of goal differential, which is just remarkable. And just watching him play, even in that Blues game, I believe he scored the two goals, right? Like, he was just kind of around the net. He's such a freight train. He's creating in so many different ways. And I think that's been a bit of a revelation for me because we saw him step into the lineup last year and produced, but now his roles expanded.

And I just said how, like, player usage is very telling for where players stand within the room, within their coaches and how they're feeling about their game. in this most recent game, I know that Crieda was hurt, but I don't think it was an accident that we saw Peter Lavella try to put Cooley with Zabinajada 515 to try and kind of light a fire under him and make life a bit easier for him. They created that one goal.

They weren't very good defensively once again, but I do think like that's very telling and indicative of the way Cooley's played and how Lavella feels about him right now. Yeah, and another homegrown guy, and I think that's the reason that I'm not really panicking about the New York Rangers as a whole because it's always going to be a destination that free agents want to go to.

And frankly, they've done a very good job drafting. And they've got some great prospects in the pipeline. You saw Brett Barard make his debut this week. I don't think that was by accident either. He's been tearing it up at the H.L. They want to see how he does there. Gabe Perrault, I think it's going to be a stud in New York. So they've got some good pieces there.

Victor Mancini, I'd be remiss not to mention, who's gotten some great exposure this year, playing with the big club. So I think they're going to be okay. but sometimes, again, because it's the new market, New York, oh my goodness, crisis, and it's probably not as bad as it seems. Okay, let's switch gears and talk about the Tampa Bay Lightning. I know that you had them, I believe it was for the Flyers game recently, right? And I was watching them last night on Monday night, and, you know, they tuned up the avalanche.

It was an A2 game. And in that process, Brandon Hagel once again just continued what he's been doing all year. in that game he plays 2242. I believe the next highest skater on the lightning, which includes defensemen, was like J.J. Moser at 20 and a half or something. So he played significantly more than anyone else. He had five assists,

including three in the first period that came on the power play, penalty kill, and five-on-five. He had the 10 shot attempts as well. He's having a remarkable career season. They're using them in so many different ways. And the reason why I wanted to bring this up is because I've sort of started getting my head around what the Four Nations rosters are going to look like,

who's sort of going to be on the chopping block, who are going to be interesting names for the various teams on their lists. And the more I think about this, the more I watch this season, I just feel like if you're responsible for building this team Canada roster, I know it's an embarrassment of riches up front, especially, right? There's going to be so many good players that don't make the team. But I don't really know how you can watch NHL hockey this season

and justify keeping Brandon Hagel off of Team Canada's roster because he's been an absolute dog. And he keeps doing it every single night. And I really feel like he's in a good spot right now with Tampa, certainly playing with other good players, whether it's sometimes with Kutraub in the top line or whether it's with Anthony Sorrelli on the second line. But in that setting with other star players,

all the dirty work he does and how he sort of fills in all the gaps, I think he would be an absolute no-brainer on that team. And so I wanted to kind of reinforce that here, especially coming off of that game against the Avalanche, because that really stood out to me. Yeah, no, he's a stud. when they trade for him for the Blackhawks, it was like a massive haul.

And I remember so many people were just like, what are the lightning doing? And this is why you have to give credit to Julian Breeze Bra as a GM because he makes really tough decisions, but he always acts with conviction. And he's like, I know what I like and I like what I like. And that price doesn't matter to anybody else.

It only matters to me. And I think that's just like a really good philosophy and good leadership qualities to have as a GM. I think he did the same with Nick Paul, then locked in Nick Paul, to a really affordable extension of being like, y'all might think this is too much, but this is the market price to get a player like this

that we know we need. And that's how they can sustain being a really good team year after year. Again, he's made some really cutthroat decisions. I think you look no further than Stephen Stamcoast. When I was there in Philadelphia, you know, against Philadelphia, I was just surprised by how many times Stephen Stamcoast was still being mentioned. It was about a week or two weeks after the return game from Nashville. And like, we know it's so.

emotional and I really feel empathetic, especially from Stephen Stamco's point of view. He's the one that's moving his family. He's the one that had this emotional tie, the community and that all of a sudden is like, yeah, nope, sorry, Captain, you're not wanted anymore. But it was like the lightning that I felt like that we're still kind of reaching for their old lover. Like John Cooper mentioned several times their power play wasn't really clicking as it should. You know, we always expect them to have a top five powerplane is like, well, we're just so used to Stamcoast and what he does. And that affects what Victor Headman does. And that's kind of affected Brayden Point. And I was just, again, surprised by what a void he was still living.

At the same time, I think Jake Gensel's been a fantastic fit. I think it's allowed for bigger opportunities for guys like Brandon Hagel for Braden Point almost to assert himself more as the face or star player of this team. And I'm doing all of this without mentioning Nikita Kutrov, who's just having another stellar season. So I think they are as good as they have been the last few years. I think they really upgraded on defense. This is no disrespect to me. Mikhail Sergachev, but all of a sudden, they look pretty solid back there. And I think that Ryan McDonough added something that they had been missing since he left. And there's no coincidence that all of a sudden the predators are kind of struggling defensively.

Well, what's the common denominator here? Ryan McDonough is no longer there. Yeah, I think the change is clearly elevated their ceiling this season. And especially with the way Hegel and Sorrelli are playing on that second line, it just gives them such a more imposing look and they can just throw so many different weapons at you. I mean, him and Sorrelli, Hagle, that is, have been amazing. And then there's one final note on him, because I'm not ready to move off this yet because it's a topic I'm so passionate about.

I just want to know, he's fourth in the league in five and five points. He's playing 21 minutes a game. He's on pace for 37 goals and 106 points. And you just watch that abs game. There's this one goal in particular that sticks out to me. I said he had the five assists. One of them was so impressive to me where it's on the PK. He, Nathan McKinnon has the puck near the blue line.

And Hagle just goes and takes it from him. And it's very rare that you see anyone. in this league out dog, the Nate dog himself. And that's exactly what Brandon Hagel does every single night. And he goes down the ice, sets up Luke Clinton inning for a shorthanded goal. And I've just been so blown away with his game seemingly more and more every single night. In that game, I mentioned that the abs gave up the eight goals. I just wanted to quickly run this by you because I'm curious if you're hearing anything

or you had any conversations or where you're at with it. But the abs right now, I think it's no surprise to anyone, have a big question mark in that. they essentially use both guys and interchange them in between periods. None of the work between uses Annen and Alex Georgia, they've gotten healthy up front recently and started playing much better. But you look and they've given up 83 goals in 22 games. Only the pens and haves have given up more than them. They're 30 second and save percentage.

And I'm curious for your take on like what you think their appetite or I guess willingness is to be having this another prime, Kail McCarr and Nathan McKinnon's season. And they've got this big sort of crossroads moment with Miko Ranton and being a UFA this summer as well. And potentially entering the postseason again with such a big question mark in that. I know that we rarely see teams actually go out and make splashes to bring in goalies in season. And when they do, there's an adjustment period and it never really works. Ultimately, I can't think of too many great examples where it has been a great fit. But I'm curious whether we're going to see them actually finally do something or whether it's going to be more of the sort of just trying to,

patch it up and do the best you can without actually really committing anything to it. Yeah, I think Jared Benner is such a good coach. I think he doesn't get enough love around the league for what he does. And all of a sudden, the avalanche with a really difficult start with how many bodies they were missing, how many really important players they were missing. And they're starting to look really good again. And you mentioned their star players are their star players. They're in their prime.

And once again, we're talking about the same conversation with them where their weakness is goal-tending. early in the year it felt like they were almost like going out of their way to defend the goaltending maybe just to prop up these guys, give them a little confidence or juice. But it's pretty apparent that it is subpar and that goaltending might be the difference between them being a great team and a great team that can go really far in the playoffs. So I do know that they've probably, I do know they've been active looking around. What I do also know is that they can't quite afford one of these high-end guys,

especially not knowing still if Gabe Landisog is going to be back. And I know everyone's probably rolling their eyes of like, come on, they have to know. But they really don't. Like this is an unprecedented injury he's coming back from. And you have to allot that cap space in case he does come back. So you can't really spend it. So I think that's probably going to prevent them from getting a name goalie. But I would be shocked if they go through the entire season and don't try to upgrade in some way,

whether that's via waivers, more subtle trade, you know, for a guy like a spend I don't think the Carolina Hurricanes are going to ever give up Spencer Martin, especially knowing how injury prone Freddie Anderson and Piotr Keekoff are. But a guy of that caliber that maybe that's put in their system and, okay, he can be a little bit better than what we're getting right now. All right, Emily, let's take our break here. And then we come back. We'll jump right back going out. I've got a few other teams that I wanted to run by you and we're talk about where they're at. You're listening to the Hockey Ocas streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. All right, we're back here on the Hockpedio cast, joined by Emily Kaplan today.

Emily, we talked about the Rangers and the Lightning in part one. Let's keep it going in the Eastern Conference. I want to talk to you about the penguins. You and I were trading messages before we went on planning today's show. And you were saying, we should talk about the penguins because you've got a bunch of them on upcoming broadcast. And I said, I feel sorry for you. But let's talk about them because I think they've certainly been in the forefront of the news, right? if you just go look like, all right, what are the most recent trades that have happened this season?

Well, so far, they trade Lars Eller to Washington for a 2025 fifth and a 2027 third two weeks ago. And then on Monday, we saw them trade a 2027 fourth for Phil Tomasino for the pen from the predators. Now, I think anyone that's been paying attention for a while now to what's going on in Nashville knows that it was one of the worst kept secrets that the predators just, he was not going to be a fit with them. like Andrew Brinan in particular, just not want to use them. I believe he was 13th on the team amongst forwards and usage in the 11 games he did play as being healthy scratch. They wanted to keep him in the HL. He was there to be had for a while now.

I think this is an interesting calculated bet by the Penguins, right? Because he's still a guy who's, what, 23 years old, realistically a fourth rounder has a very low probability of being a regular in HLer, especially one that's three drafts from now. So why not take a chance on him? I'd argue that he's already just immediately steps in and I think he's going to play with Malcolm right out of the gate on the right wing. He's by far the best U-25 forward they have on the team.

Now, part of that is just by default because they literally don't have any other U-25 forwards in the team right now. So that is what it is. But I'm curious for your take on sort of the moves they made already so far, but I think even more importantly, what's to come and kind of where the organization's at because with each mounting loss, it's not just that they're losing,

but they're almost getting embarrassed in some of these games and the defensive effort in particular has been so poor that I think people are just kind of wondering what the agenda or the end game is here and kind of what the resolution this year is going to be or if they're just going to stay in the course and it's going to be more of the same all the way through the finish line. So I think I need to scale this out big picture first

and then we can go talk more of my new details, but Sid versus Ovi, right? Like that was the dominant storyline in the league for like two decades, but it really was the Capitals and Penguins rivalry. You'd think that these two franchises, they both won a Stanley Cup, they both had to beat the other to win their Stanley Cup, like would be in the same place with these stars. But I think that the Capitals got a head start

where the Penguins want to be and are now trying to be. Because what the Capitals did is they suddenly retooled on the fly. I met with their GM, Chris Patrick ahead of the season. I was like, you brought in so many different guys. Is there one characteristic or trait that they all have in common? He was like, it's a great question. You know, their age. And they're really just targeting all of these guys in their young 20s of saying like,

okay, we still need to be competitive as long as Obie's here. And especially as he's chasing this goal record. But we don't have the bandwidth to be able to put up with a full rebuild. And this is how we're going to do it. Now, that also takes complete. buy-in from a really great coach, Spencer Carberry, who changed their style last year. They could barely score a goal. They were pretty tough to watch offensively.

This year, they're scoring a ton of goals. It's funny. The Panthers were kind of saying, oh, yeah, like their systems look like our systems. And I know that I've heard people say that the Carolina hurricanes feel the same way. Well, it helps when you have that personnel. And also what helped them is that their other core players around Ovechkin aged out a little quicker than the ones in the penguins did. And partially due to health, mostly due to.

the health, Nicholas Baxter and T.J. Oshy, they can kind of put them on LTIR and spur this thing going. Meanwhile, when you look at the penguins, they also want to be as competitive as they can be as long as Sidney Crosby is there, but they made the decision to re-sign those court players around him, like Chris LaTang and Afghani Malkin, took contracts that are long. And then they bring in Eric Carlson when I think a lot of people have a lot of questions of why that trade was made. So I think that put them back a few years, but where Kyle Dubus is now is saying, okay, we've got to reset. We've had no draft picks in the cupboard for a really long time.

Let's go up those back, but let's also use those as ammunition to get as many young players as we can so that we don't waste the last few really brilliant years of Sydney Crosby. We also have a great coach in Mike Sullivan. I wanted to work out with him. I think he's a brilliant hockey mind. And so I think right now they're an evaluation mode of like, how can we get younger on this roster as fast as we can

so that we can be the capitals next season. Yeah, that's an interesting point. I mean, I think they came into it with the idea and understanding. And I think it helps that everyone has so much job security there. And maybe this is part of that bigger picture conversation that you noted, right? Because Mike Sullivan signed that three-year extension, I believe it, this is the first year of it kicking in. So it goes until the end of 2027. We know that when Kyle Dubas came from Toronto, part of the logic was he essentially got

the reins to do whatever he wanted. He got a seven-year mega deal, and so he knows that he's going to be there for a while. And so maybe that makes it easier from their perspective of like, regardless of what happens here, even if we're losing and not making the playoffs, we're going to be here and we have time to actually see this thing through or we're not being rushed. We're not really inheriting other stuff. The issue is though, is when you watch this season, it's like becoming increasing on a scale of how dire the games have been. And I think it really hit, I don't want to say it hit rock bottom because I feel like unless something changes dramatically, there's going to be a lot more of these types of games. But like you watch that Saturday night game

and what should be this crowning achievement moment of Sydney Crosby scoring a 600th goal and the celebration that ensues and what a rare feat that is and what an accomplishment it is, it happens as a footnote in this game where they lose 6-1 to Utah. They're getting booed by their home fans by the fans that are actually there because you look around the seats and the attendance. is dropping markedly, seemingly with each game. And I think people are kind of wondering, all right, like, as the optics of this continue in terms of just how bad it looks, whether they're going to be willing to just kind of stay the course and see this through or whether at some point you're going to reach

a breaking point and things are going to dramatically change. It seems like you're feeling like they're going to stay at the course here because of all the reasons I just listed. I think so. And look, I think the obvious question here is, is Mike Sullivan the right coach for this group? I think it's a very similar situation in Boston and Jim Montgomery. Not quite because I think Mike Sullivan comes in with a far firmer relationship with ownership.

They were the ones that signed him to that extension, not Kyle Dubus. And I think that ownership group, it's Fenway, they're global. You know, they have a lot of experience and it offered a lot of different leagues. Know that they have something really special in Mike Sullivan. And if he leaves, it'll be the same situation as Jim Montgomery. We're like, he'll just get snatched up by someone else. and maybe that'll make them look dumb. At the same time, it kind of feels like the end of the Jim Montgomery era in Boston,

where you look at the body language, you look at the way that they kind of give up on games, and you're just wondering, does there just need to be a different voice back there? Because these guys might not just be buying into it or just might be too hard of a fit because of everybody's prior history. We might all just need a fresh start. So all of that is to say, like, I wouldn't be shocked if there was a mutual parting of the ways of Mike Sullivan and the Pittsburgh Penguins. but it's a little too tough to tell.

As it pertains to the team and the roster, you know, you mentioned it. Attendance is down. And this is a team that has always been so strong in that market, has some of the best TV ratings, is super engaged. And they felt like they weren't able to stomach a full rebuild as long as Sidney Crosby was there. But like, ownership starts seeing this. And it's like, okay, well, then why are we paying this payroll if this is the product you're going to put out

and if we really just need to be transitioning. So I think that is one of the reasons why you saw Lars Eller move quickly and maybe they just reassess things again for the short term, but they really want to figure out how to be as competitive as they can quickly. You know, I think they might have written off this year, but they can't write off too many more because you're going to lose Sidney Crosby if you don't. And that's why you're going to see them very active on the trade market over these next few weeks. And their prime target will be not just high draft picks,

but prospects or young players that are already in a system, again, that can kickstart this retool. Yeah, I don't blame the fans because what's one thing to lose, but when, and listen, there's part of like, all right, you still want to watch Crosby, Wally's here and playing at this level in Malkin and Carlson and you go on. But it's like there are 30th and point percentage. That's one thing.

They're getting outscored by 33 goals right now in goal differential and league worse. That's another. And then it's like, at least if you're going to lose, have young players that we can sort of get on their early stages with for this ride and follow and track their development. And it's okay when that happens. In this case, it's like there's so few of those. I think a guy like Thomasino at least gives you a little bit of a shot in the arm there.

They obviously promoted Owen Pickering, one of their picks recently as well. And we're seeing him get some minutes. But I think a little bit more of that infusion would at least sort of salvage whatever losing happens here because it's one thing to lose, but it's another to lose with a veteran group. And it just like the lack of hope, I think is what kind of kills you. And so I think that's where Penguins fans are seeing it.

And I'm not surprised that's reflected. both the TV numbers and the attendance. All right, I'll give you your dealer's choice here. You can go pick whichever next team we talk about because I know there's a few we've got on our list, but I've been dictating so far with my first three, so I'll let you have your say for the fourth team we cover. Ooh, I live in Chicago.

Let's just have a quick Blackhawks discussion. I think a lot of people are worried about Connor Bedard. Love to know your thoughts first, and then I'll chime in. Yeah. I mean, I get it from the perspective of when you come in with as much hype as he did and then deliver on it essentially right out of the gate. I think there's this natural expectation that like the growth is going to be sort of linear upward where it's like, all right, he did this a year one.

Now you go back, reassess in the offseason. You got that under your belt. And now you come back even better. And we see another jump in year two. And we haven't seen that from like a peer scoring perspective. What I've said was you look and they're doing much better at 5-15 when he's on the ice this season. Like they're actually winning their minutes in a lot of metrics, which is a departure from where they were at.

year even when he was scoring more. I don't really think they've done him many favors. I know they made a point the past two off seasons of going and bringing in veterans who can help support him both on and off the ice. The issue for me is when you look at and maybe we could talk about the coaching here and whether that's going to be the next domino to fall, you look at what Luke Richardson and the Blackhawks have chosen to do. And a lot of the players they went in and brought,

they haven't actually used them on the ice to help Carter-Burdard. Like he's been playing with other players. and for me it really hit a low point two games ago. I think it actually was an ESPN game and it was a game they won against the defending champions Panthers so I don't think they were necessarily too upset about it but you look at what happened in that game

and they move Connor Bernard to the wing he's playing with Jason Dickinson and I believe Joey Anderson in that game they're matching them head to head with last change against Barkov and Forsling and in the 15 minutes he played up 515 they literally did not generate a single shot on goal in that game

and it's like this is not ideal. Now in the next game they play against the Flyers, they finally put him at some point with both Tara Vinen who they brought in and Taylor Hall, who they brought in the previous year, and it looks much better offensively. They're creating more.

He's got the puck on his stick. And so I just want to see more of that moving forward. Whatever the combination is, I've been surprised that he's only played like 20 minutes or so this year with Tyler Bertuzi. I thought the logic behind bringing him in as a free agent would have been to have sort of a playmaking grinder next to Badaard to make his life a bit easier.

So we haven't seen that at all. Maybe that's a button they can push or revisit. But yeah, I'm not worried about Badaherd individually. I just want to see them actually put him in a position to succeed. And I'd argue they've made life even more difficult for him this season that I think it needed to be. So I believe you're bang on where the biggest issue for Connor Baderd right now is that he has not had regular line mates. It's like a constant rotation. And a lot of the guys that they brought in to play with him.

just haven't performed up to the expectations that the front office expected. So you can call that a free agent miss. It might be on the players. You might question if it's the culture. I think Luke Richardson does a really good job. Things that I've heard coming out of Chicago are really positive. I don't see he's on the hot seat. And I'm going to explain that why in the second part of this answer.

But it's funny because I was covering that game for ESPN against the Florida Panthers. And that's when Connor Mard was on the wing. And that's why he was on Dickinson line. And basically it was like, none of these other guys. are working for him. Jason Dickinson, we want to put him with him because he's such a responsible player. He's going to be able to feed him pucks. He's going to put him up for success. But also, we need to take away some of the center responsibilities for Conner right now because he's struggling and it's just wearing on him too much. So let's put him to the wing, get him out of the face off circle.

He's got to work on his face off. I think he will improve there. That's just not been on the track that it should be at this point, but he'll be fine in the future. A lot of centers suck at face off their first couple years, especially smaller guys. He'll learn the tricks from Yonaiai. prog who's in the organization. And Connor looks much more better on the wing. Like he's done this previous in his career. It can kind of get him going. The Dickinson goes out in that game with a hand injury.

And then they're rotating a bunch of other different centers are so committed to Connor on the wing that they don't put him at center. And it was just like, this is kind of a classic microcosm of how things just aren't quite right and are a constant revolving doors here for Connor and the Blackhawks right now. Now, when I have the conversation about the Rangers and to an extent the penguins, every market is different. And if you're an original sixth market like Chicago, and you have the ownership investment with the president, with the GM, that they're like, we want to build this the right way. Other GMs have told me they think Kyle Davidson has the best job in the league because of the patient that he's been given to do this well.

Like you have a guy like Frank Nizar lighting it up in the H.L. And they're like, we're not going to bring him up until we feel like he's overripened. Like, yeah, he looks great. He's on the power play. He's on a penalty kill. but he's still working on his consistency in all three zones. And when he comes up, we don't want him to yo-yo. We want him to be here for good.

It's why they are allowing Kevin Kourchinsky, who's on the big club last year, to get back down to the H.L and find his confidence. So all of this is to say, this team is not built to win right now. All of their best pieces that they want to surround Connor Biddard with two, three, four years from now are either in Rockford or at lower levels than that.

So it's frustrating for Connor. And I worry for him just from a mental health perspective, just because of the way that he's wound, like talking to people close to him, he's never blamed coaching once, he's never blamed his linemates once. He just looks himself in the mirror and it's just like, I know I need to be better and I'm disappointing everyone around him. And I just feel for him because that's a lot of weight to carry for someone that young. So I think he'll be able to withstand it.

Nate McKinnon withstood a very difficult situation early in his career with the avalanche. He's similarly wound as Connor. They're fiercely competitive. They want to win and look, it turned out okay. But this is a tough period right now. And that's why you're seeing a sophomore slump, not just from Connor, but from the team as well, even though I think they'd like to be a little bit more competitive by now. Especially when you look at San Jose and, you know, Connor and Bernard was in this position the previous year is the first overall pick and comes in. I think there's certainly in the first year, especially when you're expected to lose a lot, anything you get is just like such a nice bonus.

And especially you just get to watch this guy for the first time. Yeah. And you're like, all right, this is so fun. And then year two kind of comes with actual expectations, whereas you compare to some. San Jose now that's going through that at the moment. And it's like every Macon Celebrini game is just such a joy and everything he does. I'm like, oh, my, this is awesome. I'm so glad we're actually getting to watch this for the first time.

And they're not going to win a lot of games either. But I think the perspective or the way it's kind of being portrayed is just wildly different. And so I think comparing those two, and especially you're talking about Bernard and how like Heist would sort of internalize it, not that there's any like animosity or whatever there. But I feel like you're looking at it. It's kind of human nature to be like, oh, man, like these two situations, even though they shouldn't be that different, feels so different right now from a vibe's perspective.

A hundred percent. So I guess the too long didn't read on the Chicago Blackhawks. If you haven't been watching them this year, I understand why they might not be your go-to if it's a busy night of hockey. Also, we in Chicago can't really watch them if you've got Exfinity. They've got to figure out their new RSN distribution deal. A side note there. You're still going to get a really sharp and motivated Connor Bedard every night.

You're going to see a frustrated Connor Barrett every night. you're going to see a frustrated Connor Bredard. I think his body language is there. But overall, he's still that elite player. And I feel that he's going to have a big second half that this first half is going to be one of the tougher periods of adversity he'll ever have to go through as a pro. And unfortunately for the Blackhawks,

you're not getting their best because they want their best to come and be ready to be the best. That said, Alex Vlasic has been an absolute delight. Total breakout player will probably be mentioned. If he's probably, he's on the fringes for Four Nations right now, I think he'll be on the docket for Milan. That's how good he is for Team USA. All right.

I want to talk to you quickly about Mitchcove because obviously we mentioned you were there to cover the flyers when they were in Tampa Bay recently. Now, I believe that was one of the games. Mitchcoff was healthy scratch for I know that in the pregame, you had an interesting note about like the plan there and the communication and the way they're handling all this and how it wasn't meant to be perceived as some sort of punishment or whatever the way it was portrayed online at the time.

He comes back and all he's done to. opinion is just do everything you want to see from him. He started playing much better at 5-1-5. He's producing. He's scoring big goals. He's involved in everything. He's so feisty. I just love watching him. You even, you look at that last game, they played against Vegas, and he scores a big goal. And then in overtime, he's like getting in a scrum in front of the net. It just seems like he's so fearless and just involved and has this kind of hands in every single play. And so I love what I've seen from him. And I think he's responded as well as you could have hoped for from that situation. And do you have any notes on him or kind of just while you were there on the flyers,

how they were talking about it and sort of the way the start to his career is being viewed? Yeah, I mean, I can't remember the last time they had a talent like this. Like this is a franchise changing or defining player. Every time I talk to Danny Breyer, and I've checked in with him quite a few times of the last two seasons, the context is always we're rebuilding this the right way and we're still in the building phase. So again, when you look at this roster and you look at this team, they're still an evaluation mode. And I think there's a lot of these players in the young 20s.

Are they part of our future? Can we figure out a way to leverage them for more assets to build around the guys that we want to build around? But there's no question in my mind that Mischkov is it. He is that guy. And he's going to be a star for many, many years. I think a lot of people have misconceptions about John Tortorella, who he is as a coach and who he is as a person.

We obviously know him as a hard ass. and, you know, a guy that's not afraid to make a benching. But every time I talk to him and you understand the ethos of John Tortorella that he just cares about these guys as people, you understand why they are steadfast behind them. Like, this is the guy that we want to lead our team through this rebuild because he's going to set the right culture. The way he talks about Michalukal, like he loves the kid. And in fact, when he was talking to us, it was he wanted to make sure that he could communicate correctly. And so initially they had Zamula, the defenseman,

translating for him. And then he was like, you know, Zamula's play was suffering, and that was unfair burden to him. So I set up these weekly meetings with Slavukuznetsov. He's one of our skating coaches, just to make sure all the nuances

are there with me and Michkov. The other thing that's surprising about John Tortorella, when he talks about Michov and how he's coaching him, he wants him to take those offensive risks. And I know he's been burned a couple times, you know, for not getting back or back checking

or, you know, it's kind of hanging out in no man's land. But John Torrella, wants to build up this guy's confidence and harness his superpowers. And we know so much of that is offense. So I think it's really exciting that we're seeing a coach evolve to that point where he's allowing these Gen Z or younger guys be themselves. You know that John Porterill is also harping on the details, though. And that's some of the reasons that he kept him out.

When he benches him, it's like not to bench. Like John really views that as a teaching moment where like, if you go up there in the press box, you'll see the game differently. Like you'll see the way plays develop and where spacing is. And he told us to like, I'm going to quit them. He doesn't know yet. But after the game, I'm going to talk to him about what he saw and see, you know, is he just texting on his phone the whole time? Or, you know, is he on the bench and just like always grabbing the iPad?

Or is he actually paying attention? And so I just think the investment from coach to player is really cool. And I think if you're a Flyers fan, like you just have to be so stoked that this guy's on your team. He fell to you mostly because of the Russia factor. They didn't know when he was going to come over. And there's not a doubt in my mind. that he's like the next big thing in this league. Yeah, you've already seen him take those strides

and what I said earlier about coaches and player usage. In the past week, they had a game against the abs at home. Mitchkoff plays 1947 in that game. On Monday night against Vegas, the game that went to a shootout, he plays 1931. Like, he's clearly relying on him and entrusting him with a big role. I'd be much more worried beyond the healthy scratches

as this was a situation we see sometimes with young players and veteran coaches where like he's playing, but he's missing shifts all the time. and you look up at the end of the game and it's like he played eight minutes tonight. All right, well, how's he actually going to develop if he's just sitting on the bench? So this isn't one of those instances. And I really just, I want to track this growth all season, but I feel like it's off to such a good start right now. So I'm loving what I'm seeing there.

Do you have any, we have a couple more minutes here. I know in your role as an insider, I feel like I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you. Do you have any notes on what's going on right now with David Eurecheck and the blue jackets? Because it feels like in my Pediocast Discord, that's all anyone's talking about right now. I think people are expecting some sort of a resolution soon or at least a bit more clarity on the situation. Obviously, a very highly regarded player. We haven't really seen him play much in the NHL, but I think people really want to know kind of where that's at and how available he really is. Very available.

I would almost say, like, by the time this is posted, he could be traded. I think they've narrowed it down to a handful of teams. And they're really looking as the Blue Jackets, you know, kind of try to take that next step with a new regime. a new GM and a new coach. Can we get a guy that's young and can help us right now? So some of the teams that I've heard, the Pittsburgh Penguins definitely fits into what we were talking about with them. I've heard the Minnesota Wild.

I've also heard the Sabres. That would be an interesting one. So I would expect something to get done quite soon here. And we'll see which team is able to bring up the best offer. All right. Well, looking forward to that. Emily, we got to get out of here. I'll let you quickly plug some stuff on the way out.

What's the next broadcast you're doing? What teams are you excited to cross paths with here over the next couple weeks and months? Yeah. Well, my first game back, we've got a little break next week. I've got a Red Wings Bruins game. So excited to see these same old new look Bruins under Joe Sacco. It seems like they're just tightening things up a little bit defensively. I expect them to have a big second half.

So excited for that. And the Red Wings are a team. I've always wanted to believe it. And I just, we didn't talk about them today, Dimitri. I just, I'm starting to wonder if this isn't it this year. All right. Well, we'll save that for the next time we have you on after you've done those games and we can revisit that and catch up with you then. Emily, thanks for taking the time. This was awesome. As always, thank you to the listeners for listening to us. My one quick plug on the way out is I did a big Nico Hissier film club deep dive episode at the end of last week. And then he came out and rewarded me for my faith in him with a hat truck against the predators and put it all together in that game for you to see. So if you want to watch more of them, that's available on the HockeyPedio Gas YouTube channel. And that's going to be it for today. So we'll be back with one more show here tomorrow before taking a couple days off for that American Thanksgiving holiday because I'm going to be watching a lot of football on my couch the way I'm sure a lot of other listeners are as well. Thank you for listening to the HockeyPedocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.