The Hockey PDOcast - Saturday Night’s Showcase, and Post-Trade Deadline Reflections

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Thomas Drance to talk about Saturday night's doubleheader featuring the new look Avalanche forward group and Jake Walman's impact on the Oilers blueline. They also discuss the moves the Canucks didn't make, the stuff the Devils chose to do, and their takeaways from this year's trade deadline after having a weekend to reflect on it. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Dmitri Filippovich and joining me here in studio. It's a Sunday, so of course it's time for another rollicking edition of the Sunday special. I'm joined by a man who many people are saying is entering the babe portion of his career arc. My good buddy Thomas Strands, Tom. What's going on? Many people are saying it? I've heard a few reference it at least. I think it's catching on slowly. I like it.

Look, deadline week, really the couple weeks before the deadline. And honestly, I sort of pivot my focus in terms of doing my day job as a beatwriter covering a team to the trade deadline mid-January. You know, especially when you cover the Vancouver Canucks and they sort of opened the sort of fireworks show with the J-T Miller deal. Yeah, exactly. So this, you know, in a lot of ways, it's like. a big sigh of relief. And then I appreciate having sort of the weekend in some ways before we do this show. Yep.

Just to decompress, watch some of the new additions a little bit. I thought Saturday night was a particularly fascinating evening of hockey. And, you know, now we can deliver sort of our sober second takes once the, you know, the storm and drang of the winners and losers has faded. Yes. I think one of the best things, my own personal favorite thing about the trade deadline being in the rear view. mirror other than the fact, of course, they're like, it no longer just holds my entire life hostage

because I'm just spending every waking moment in the past week, living in like perpetual fear of missing something. I know. And developing carpal tunnel, refreshing my Twitter feed just to see what's happening. I also don't spend as much time on Twitter these days as I used to until this week. So it subjects you to that again. Yeah, exactly. It's tough.

My favorite thing is that it kind of allows us to, and I think this is what you're getting at, limit our scope a little bit on the number of teams we truly care about. for the next couple months, right? Because I think we're using this stretch run to obviously monitor the playoff races, see how teams are looking, heading in, kind of just prepare for the upcoming postseason. And that's obviously, I think, going to be a lot of the focus on these shows moving forward as well, not that we're going to, you know, not be watching the 27th ranked team or whatever, because it's me and you.

Like, of course, we're going to be watching it. But we're not going to be devoting a lot of our attention to it here. Saturday night was the perfect showcase for that, I thought, because we were treated to a pair of bangor matchups on hockey net in Canada, and the first of which was abs leaves. And it featured this opening period that had all the juice you could ask for. I think it was three, two after the first, but there were so many high-level offensive plays. It was back and forth. The first, like, five or six minutes in particular, where there were no whistles other than

goalies pulling the puck out of the back of their net and lining up at center eyes for draws. It was so fun to watch. And I wanted to talk to you more about this abs theme because I think it ties it nicely with this theme of reflecting on the trade deadline, kind of looking ahead to where teams are at for this stretch run heading into the postseason. And the abs have been more active than any team in the league this year, right? They've used 40 different skaters and six different goalies. They really need a 53-man NFL roster to conduct their business. Since October, they've made nine separate trades just completely remaking the entire roster from top to bottom. And I was very fascinated to watch

them to see how it all fit in this first game with Brock Nelson and Charlie Coil. And it's one game. We don't want to overreact to it, certainly. But I thought it paid dividends, right? Like you could see just obviously they created some goals for them, but just in general, just increasing the baseline of when their top line isn't out there and how big of a difference maker it is for this team, because you know what you're going to get from that top line. And so now putting it all together with this, especially Brock Nelson, I think it was his first shift. Your Navs uniform comes in down the middle off the rush. And I'm like, this is exactly. what I spec, rings one off the crossbar, draws a penalty later, sets up one of the two

Balinichushkin goals. You saw the third line with Kibiranta and Colton and Koyle, Coil sets up a Druan goal from behind the net in the third, and the second they create a rush goal. So they got contribution offensively from those guys, which is something they've been so starved for. And that's kind of been our eternal question with this team, right? It's like, are the second to fourth line going to be able to clear a certain threshold of just manufacturing enough offense for how good the top line is to ultimately matter, and it feels like they're much closer to being in that direction than they were previously. So job well done. Yeah, somehow they got both faster and bigger, which is a tough trick to pull off.

And they probably value that. I know you talk about how like Jim Rutherford teams typically really value physical traits. Right. Right. And I think the abs, probably more than any organization, have really valued size and speed in that high octane, high altitude environment. Look no further than the Logan O'Connor contract. Yes. Right? I mean, that's proof positive. I actually sort of wonder because I liked, I mean, that first shift,

that first shift was such a declaration of intent. Yes. And the combination of Nelson and Nuchuskin as just giant disruptive bodies who also have the skill to punish you was so appealing to me that I actually, you know, very quickly, especially watching coil play. play with, you know, Kiva Ranta, who scored and Colton, I very quickly was like, I kind of want to see Coil on the wing with those guys, you know? Yeah.

That's just, that's going to be something, not that I think they should do, something I want to see happen, because that feels like a crash and bang, size and skill look that, you know, A can, A has the pace to play, like, like, recognizably Colorado Avalanche style hockey. but also do it in sort of a meat grinder way we've never seen before. I just want to see it. I'm just putting it out there. That was one of my main takeaways

from a game in which I thought the avalanche were sensational, like looked incredibly dangerous against the Maple Leafs. Yeah, the downhill game is just terrifying. And now it's not just limited to one line either. No. It's like up and down, just they're coming at you in waves. Yep.

I still wonder if they end up being a middle six forward short. you know, once they get, once they get into those series where you can play guys off the ice, you know, I guess, I guess coil moves to the wing, Drury moves up, I think that gives you nine, that gives you three lines that can probably hang it in a high-paced environment. But, you know, playoffs are a long time, and I do sort of wonder, I think ultimately their forward quality is massively upgraded as is their depth, but I still worry that we're going to get to a point where it's like the abs are one injury away from it being like they have seven forwards that can hang in this series.

Well, it's interesting hearing you bring that up about Quill, because in thinking about this, obviously I think the way they've constructed their forward group now just fits so much more stylistically with what they're trying to look like and how they want to play as a team and not just limiting it into the one line. And, you know, we spoke a lot about how Casey Middleshthtat was the opposite of that. In terms of what an awkward fit it was because he doesn't like to carry the puck. he's slow and everything kind of grinded to a methodical halt when he was out there all of a sudden that's not really the case anymore they also have so many options for for different looks as well right

I think they're going to ride with this current formation when you score seven goals like they did on Saturday there's no reason to mix it up but I imagine they will experiment some in these final 20 or so games because they have that optionality with how many centers do they have out of this out of this 12 at least I would say six and even a couple guys who you're like all right well their tendencies are kind of center like so they could probably, yeah. Like, Duran, you're totally fine. Yes. You need him to play center for a spell.

Drury, Parker Kelly. I mean, yeah, Colton. Yeah, and you're right. They have the feel of a Canadian national team. Yep. To be totally honest with you where, you know, like I know there was a debate when they were looking for linemates for McDavid, for example, where, you know, to some extent Cooper had to go outside his comfort zone because he likes Braden Point more as a center.

Right? That was something that they had to. like really adjust and work through how it would sort of look. You know, very rarely are you having those sorts of conversations as a head coach where you're like, yeah, we like this sixth center more in the middle than on the wing. It's far more frequently the opposite conversation. And yeah, Jared Bednar and his staff are now the only team in the NHL that can have that chat.

So in this game, Valenuja is a hat trick, right? And I think this brings them to 10 straight wins with him in the last. lineup. Let me ask you a question. Is there any player, any skater in the league right now that isn't considered a bona fide superstar that has a larger impact on the outlook of their team's chances than him right now? And maybe not even right now because you could stretch it out to the past couple years. I think there are some incredible splits in terms of their win-loss record when he's available versus not. And I feel like it just unlocks so much for them. They just, to me, look like an entirely different team when he's in the lineup than when he's not.

And I think part of that speaks to some of the depth concerns they've had previously where just removing one play driver like that can all of a sudden have a crippling effect on your lineup. But even now at full form, he just makes such a difference to what they're capable of as a team. He's the forward Dylan Sandberg. The, look, this is a completely qualitative take, which usually has no, presence. No, no, it's not welcome on the Sunday special, but my suggestion is for why Nachushkin makes such a huge difference is he's able to play what we would recognize as avalanche style

hockey away from the puck at a level that I just don't think there's anyone else in the league that can, just given the size speed skill combo, you know, I mean, I think you get that effort from McKinnon, you know, you think about that chase down that he had in the, um, Four Nations final game, right? Like that's sort of what I'm talking about, but it's like a high-octane pressure game that I think they need to complement their high-octane puck possession game.

And so I think that that is why he is so crucial to adding clicks to their, you know, fastball. Yes. Since the Nages trade, 157 minutes, 515 of McKinnon-Fa-Natjus Lekinen. They're up 113, shots on goal are 111 to 54, and high-dangered chances are 56 to 20. They've been an absolute buzzsaw, but I think even more important when you saw that in this game, the power play since the Natchez trade. And this was something you and I talked about during the original Miko Ranton and Trade breakdown when we did this show following that first deal between the hurricanes and the Aves, we were talking about how the Aves power play had become so stale or predictable in terms of like everyone just kind of standing at their assigned spot and McKinnon trying to pass across ice to those Rantan and one timers.

And since Natchez came, it took him a couple games to figure out each other's sort of. of tendencies and preferences and the awkwardness of the same handiness and like both guys kind of typically wanting to stand on the same side of the ice. But we've seen since then so much more movement and McKinnon's almost occupying this McDavid-like power play role now where you're seeing him kind of work behind the net, come out to the other side of the ice, then come back to his one-time spot that just kind of keep moving and keep giving you different looks. And the power play, 14.7 goals per hour, which is best in the league since the trade.

And so it's had a remarkable profound impact on them. Here's my one question for you. You mentioned the forward depth still. In watching that game, Sam Malinsky was absolutely dynamite. Like the rush goal that that third line created in the second period, the play he makes entering the zone on the blue line and then kind of swinging it, stretching the ice. He did it a couple times that game at 515 where like those cross ice reads where he goes

diagonally from the far side of the blue line all the way to almost the goal line on the other side of the ice is remarkable. Here's my question for you. Do you think Jared Bednar, because we like Jared Bednar? because we like Jerry Bednar, but he is an NHL coach, is going to be comfortable in a playoff series, actually playing him and Sam Gerard together as a defense pair the way he did in this game,

because their numbers for the season are quite good, and it makes sense. They're both highly skilled players, and when you get them out there with the Aves' top players, they're going to be able to cook in the offensive zone, but they are both quite undersized, and we've seen Bednar, and coaches typically like to mix and match, right,

in terms of like skill sets, putting kind of a puck mover with a bigger, more stay-at-home defenseman. Gerard and Josh Manson have not worked this year. They've been a train wreck in those minutes. Now we're seeing Manson playing with Lindgren. I think they have their own liabilities there certainly as a pair. And then you have Gerard and Malinski, which in a playoff series, all of a sudden if you start losing some battles around the net or behind the goal line, we've seen coaches overreact to that and try to mix up the dynamic.

I guess that's going to be in terms of the way they put this team together now that there's no more trades. finally, and this is the lineup they're going to be going into the playoffs with, I guess that's something I'm going to be watching to see if there's actually something they're comfortable sticking with because it probably is their best look, but I just know coaching tendencies typically don't align with that. I think we need to default in this instance to giving Bednar some credit for the fact that it has been his second most used or third most used defense pair on the season. you know between manson and lingran i mean they might end up in series where the reason not to play

milinsky and gerard is that you need to insulate from a from a speed perspective yeah a manson lingran pair yeah so i think more than anything it's like you've got this mccartave's group they're going to play an insane amount you can also mix and match those guys with gerard and manson yes and then with milinsky and gerard i think there's situational moments where you can go to it and situational moments where you can go away from it. Do I think they're going to get a defensive zone start in an overtime of game seven?

Probably not. But if you lean on them in open play and mix and match situationally, I think there's actually a lot of optionality including the top pair with sort of the abs and more than anything once they get into the playoffs in McCar and Taves are playing 28 to 32 minutes

a night, you know, that's also going to, I think, diminish sort of the size of the edge anyway in terms of making optimal versus suboptimal decisions. But look, I mean, I remember seeing it. Chris Tannav's like fifth game in the NHL was in the Western Conference final in 2011. And what they did was they kept putting them out there with Christian Erhoff. And all of a sudden, but only an open play.

That wasn't a pair. It wasn't a thing that they'd used on an offensive or a defensive zone start. But it was just like this open play thing where Tanniv was super young, but in transition, you could tell that he had game, and it sort of worked. I think they could explore something similar with Molinski, Gerard, that way, and then also use their speed to help insulate some of their other defenders. Well, they have probably better than any team in the league do this thing where they hem you in your own zone, and while they're doing it after like 40 seconds, they start doing kind of like adjustment,

like line changes of their own. So they start bringing on fresh bodies and kind of keep that going. And I think we saw in that game against Leaves on Saturday, there was at least one offensive zone sequence I remember where it was actually Malinsky playing with Taves out there and so I think that that's an interesting way also to like insulated as well where maybe you just don't even play that Lingren Manson pair that much in terms of open play and like you just kind of like cycle through it and so you have Taves and a car out there one of those guys goes off for a breather one of these other skill guys comes on

and you kind of keep rotating them that way if you're able to sustain those offensive zone shifts and they certainly are better than anyone at that. Do you want to switch over to the second Gaden, that's kind of all I had on the Aftor and I feel like we have a lot more ground to cover. Yeah, the second half of that aforementioned back to back on Huckney to Canada. So as we get into it, though, can we just talk about how cool it is that, you know, look, this Edmonton Oilers team, they're not champions by any means. But there's clearly something about that group where the Dallas stars acquire Miko Rent and they jump them in terms of like Stanley Cup favorites and the betting odds.

everyone's expecting this big show from the new look stars. And the Oilers are always going to get up for that kind of game. And I just think we have to respect that and tip our caps to like a narrative-driven group of vets that obviously care about moments like this. You were talking about that with me in studio, it was after the Seth Jones acquisition. And the first game that Panthers played was a home game against Lightning. Lightning had this winning streak. And it was like probably the best Sasha Barkov game you've seen this season. And it was him just being like, nah, I'm excited.

Oh, yeah. I mean, he didn't smile after his goal, so I don't want to say he was too excited, but for his standards, I think he was pretty pumped up. And I also think Barkov knows, like, those are the games that people are watching, and that includes ownership, and that includes, you know what I mean?

He's going to make sure that they win those games because he really enjoys when they land those guys, as he should. In this game, between the stars and the Oilers, we really got Trita, and is why I enjoyed it, to a front row seat for the full Oilers roller coaster ride experience, right?

We saw, we got the highs of that hallowed fastball. we like to talk about so much. Yes, sir. We also got the lows of them white knuckling defensively at the end after they blew the 5-1 lead and it was 5-4 in the final couple minutes. I want to talk more about Jake Wallman, right? Because it ties into this theme of trade deadline acquisitions.

And in his debut for the Oilers, he plays 2440. He's playing on his offside with Darnelner's with Matthias Ekholm out of the lineup. They use them as the top pair. He plays 25-on-5 minutes, shots on goal, 15 to 3 for the Oilers, high-danger chances, 8-2 for the Oilers goals, 3-0. He had the lob pass, like kind of alley breakout to Zach Hyman that he finished on the break. He stood up, Miko Randton, the neutral zone and put him on his butt.

I thought what was most encouraging and exciting about infusing him into this lineup and what he could open in terms of doors for the Oilers was he played about half of his five-on-five minutes with David. And there were a couple shifts I saw where you could see the offensive instincts, and kind of recognition of what's happening by Jake Wallman, where McDavid has so much attention on him at all times when he is the puck and when he's kind of like probing around the offensive zone, and you could see Walman either kind of crashing the net

or trying to streak down weak side for an opportunity, and they didn't wind up like creating anything off of it necessarily in this game, but I just think that gives them another option so they aren't so beholden to the Bouchard at Cole Minutes with McDavid, and especially it might not matter that much for this post-season. season necessarily, although I do think for the rest of the regular season, they'd be smart to ease up on Matthias at Coleman's minutes, right? Yeah.

He's 35. He's really struggled lately even before being taken out of the lineup. I think he's playing more minutes at 5-1-5 than he has since like 2018 or something, and there's no real reason for that at this point other than they just didn't really have better options. And so I feel like in terms of preserving him and optimizing his minutes as well, and then heading into next year where they still have Walman, I feel like that's such a coup here for for the Oilers, right? It gives them

different looks. It's probably going to make everyone better. And then also Wallman's actual individual contributions which were on full display in this game. Yeah, I think the, like, it's not that Walman is the world's fastest defenseman, but he's... I think it's his Yolo mentality.

And I think they actually do need that. I know that's not something we would think is like, the Oilers, who we consider this like high octane offense that's questionable defensively, and you're like, oh, do they need another one of those guys? And I think that's why people were initially, everyone likes Jake Wallman, but they were like, is that exactly the player prototype Oilers needed? And I would argue, yes. If you watch them this season, they've actually, especially a five-on-five, been, their metrics are good, but their efficiency

slipped. I think they've become certainly a bit more predictable in terms of how you can defend them. And I feel like throwing a wild card into this, like just like a cannonball into the pool, I actually do think benefits them quite a bit. I agree. I will say, though, you know, if, well, I mean, Wallman already is a fire away from the point with no conscious player. So I guess that might fit in a little bit... And they have been shooting a lot from the point. That might fit in a little bit too well with one of the reasons that I would suggest to you that their efficiency has dropped, which is an over-reliance on those sorts of perimeter shots.

So maybe in time that becomes something I don't love. But I think what this effectively gives the Oilers, right, is especially once you get Echoam back, you know, the ability to have Walman who, because of his skating, because of the way that he takes chances, because of the way he assesses the value of certain plays on the ice, and because he's a little more attack-minded than any of their other options, I do like the fit with Nurse, right? I think that gives you two guys, they cover a lot of ground, they're pretty athletic. I think their hockey IQ can slip in and out a little bit, but man, is it a different look than Cody C. C. Darnell Nurse. And I think it's a different look in the right type of way, because, in my opinion, too, like, you know,

when the Oilers are trailing, for example, when they're chasing games, you sometimes see Darnel Nurse take chances that are ex-exceptional. Like, he uses his frame well to be deceptive. Like, I actually think introducing a little chaos onto Darnel Nurse's pair is exactly what he needs, as opposed to, you know, asking him to play this more button-down game, which I think he can sag with. So I really liked seeing that fit last night. And then that gives you Kulak to provide depth if Ekholm has problems at any point, but also, you know, carry an Emerson or a stetcher or whatever you need on your third pair.

And I think that's, that becomes a far more interesting blue line. And I think cleans up what was such a liability for the Oilers last spring, which was what their second pair looks like, at least potentially. I thought the first game was obviously about as good an introduction to the. Jake Walman experienced, you know, the stepping up for big neutral zone hits, the way that he control play. And then, you know, we've talked about this a lot, but the way that Oilers, defenders, go. Like, you can go whenever McDavid has the puck in his own end. When you're regrouping, you're free to be a winger, at least for a few seconds in the neutral zone. And I think that part of it, especially once he's a little more familiar with the triggers and when to go, I think he's,

just with the with like the the bursty skating stride that he has plus his sort of skill to connect play I think that's going to be a really good fit I don't know that we're even going to scratch the surface on it for like another couple weeks that's fair I from the stars perspective there's probably no one higher on this team than I am and yet in this game are one concern with them in terms of the way they've chosen to build their blue line in particular the right side was on full display where Ilya Lubushkin was just in a torture chamber all night. And a lot of those problems probably become alleviated if Mero Haskin is able to come back for the postseason and just step into his regular role, although I think that is probably a lot to ask for, right, in terms of missing that much time and being like, all right, you're going to, and Jim Nell was,

non-committal about him even being ready for game one of the postseason. It was like he'll come back at some point. It's a lot easier, especially if you're going to have these minutes with him, in Harley because we saw in this game, right? Like they're pushing for offense. Harley's deep in the offensive zone. And then the guy back is Lubushkin, who just doesn't really have the foot speed when he's on an island.

Not that anyone does against Connor McDavid, but it becomes like... It was especially... Especially evident. Like, the highlight real goal McDavid scored where he just went out on one-on-one, kind of put it through him and just skated around him was like... I tweeted the clip of it, but like the still of Lubbushkin getting in like a quote-unquote athletic pose. He's like crouching and he's like waiting to like tackle him almost.

and then David kind of just dipsy-dus around him. That's a tough look. And certainly, I mean, Lindell took a shot off the knee in this game while he's still coming back. But him and Cici in like high leverage defensive minutes, it's a problem. Now, the good thing for the stars is, especially after the Rantan edition,

and they were able to claw back in this game offensively with how well the power play has been playing in particular, they're probably going to be able to outscore a lot of their problems. Maybe it becomes a bit more difficult in the postseason when things get buttoned down a little bit more, But for the time being, I think they're pretty comfortable and well equipped to win a lot of games 5, 4, 6, 5 if they need to. So I think that is kind of the silver lining. And obviously, we're very excited to watch more.

Like you saw glimpses of it, right, with Ranton's passing in the offensive zone. And obviously the power play goal he scores on that cross-ice and how the, I think the stars, for all the drama and everything involving what happened with Rantan and Carolina, just the stars are so much more well-equipped to put him in a position to do what he does best because of the personnel they have up front, and you could even see that in this first debut for him. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, in time, Ranton and Robertson, Hince is going to be a ton of fun.

Well, I think him and Wyatt Johnson is the solution. Yeah. Get a right-hand center who, like, command space and is brilliant off the rush. Like, obviously, Hintz is great as well, but I just feel like that fit is. Yeah. Oh, certainly he's had a lot of success with high-end right-hand centerman over the past few years. So you got any other notes on Rantanin'n or either. these two teams or do you want to go to break? Yeah, let's break and we'll get into, you know,

some of the teams that didn't play the main slate on hockey night in Canada on Saturday evening. I love that. All right, we're going to take our break here. You're listening to the Hockey P.D. Ocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. All right, we're back here in the Hockey Kodi-Kee-Ocast doing our Sunday special with Thomas Strad. Tom, you kind of tease this before the break, but we're going to talk about a few other teams here that especially probably didn't get as much attention around the trade deadline as well, because I think everyone was rightly very preoccupied or fixated on the fact that a lot of the best teams in the league wound up making important moves to improve their chances.

Which, by the way, let's just shout out NHL general managers. I thought there was a lot of creativity. You know, oftentimes we talk about the deadline being disappointing. There's a lack of activity. The day itself doesn't unfold in dramatic fashion. You know, hockey fans were wired to complain. and yet I thought what we saw over the course of the past week, but especially on Friday,

was a lot of the best general managers in hockey through caution of the wind, I think addressed significant needs, did so creatively. You know, Bjork Strand as the right-handed winger that we've been waiting for Tampa Bay to add, for example. I mean, I don't know that anyone had that on their bingo card, but that's such a perfect fit. He's got term on the deal. Yeah, the price is big. But that's what you do when you're trying to win a cup.

Yeah, that's exactly the way to load up if you're Tampa Bay. And I just thought across the board, with obvious exceptions, I thought we saw like a level of ingenuity and brass ones that we haven't typically associated with the NHL trade deadline in years past. So tip of the cap to some of the league's top executives. And with that out of the way, let's segue to the Vancouver Canucks. Oh, God. A team you cover, of course, that didn't really do that.

They wound up keeping both Brock Besser and Pew Souter in what can only be described as a prime seller's market, right? Teams were just willingly throwing around at least second round picks, if not bigger packages for, I would argue, inferior players. I'm curious for your take on this because I didn't have that much time at the end. I wanted to talk about it on my Friday recap, and I just wound up believing it because I knew that you and I would be doing this show. And obviously, this is right up your alley. So I don't know, let's get into it. So I think you have to rewind to the Miller trade and then the Marcus Pedersen, the two-step deal that the Canucks made, which sent J.T. Miller out the door and effectively brought back like Victor Mancini, Philippeitel, Marcus Pedersen, and Drew O'Connor. You know, and then they do another minor deal trading out Carson Sousy at the deadline for a third.

You know, I think, like they, team sources insist that a first was never on the table for Brock Besser and it might have turned out differently if it had been, that there was at least some price enforcement impetus on the Canucks end in addition to the fact that they are eighth in the West by point percentage on deadline day and decided, hey, we are not going to just give away Besser for free. That's not what we're in the business of doing. I've also heard that the team will make him another contract offer before July 1. I'm sure he's rushing to sign that. I mean, we'll see.

Can you imagine, his agent's Ben Hankins, right? Yeah. Can you imagine him watching Patrick Albin's presser? I'm sure he wasn't impressed. And look, I think the problem with, the problem I have with the Canucks deadline sort of twofold. And one is, I just think that the organization remains a little too fixated on hockey fit as opposed to adding value. Right. And I think in the spot where they've found themselves where, you know, you like their blue line and they've got Quinn Hughes, but Quinn Hughes is expiring.

And you probably have to be in the mix next year if you're going to be able to make a good pitch to him before he becomes extension eligible. And on and on. I mean, there is, I understand why you'd need to be aggressive short term. But, you know, like even the Sousie deal is a good example where Sousie goes the same day as Brian Dumlin. Dumlin goes for a second and a prospect. Sousie goes for a third. Why? Ducks retained. Canucks didn't.

Susie has an extra year on his deal. Dumlin's expiring. That tells you pretty, I think, compellingly that if you just hold Carson Sousie for 12 months, he adds marginal value. even if his form doesn't bounce back, which I think it's a pretty good bet to bounce back. He's a good player. You know, does that matter in the grand scheme of things? Is it like a huge deal?

It's not. It's at the margins. But I think at the margins are where this team consistently sort of loses value. And taking the risk of having Sousie and Besser Walk without compensation is like another area where it's done, right? losing J.T. Miller, getting an asset in that Rangers first round pick that is probably a late first, but has an outside shot at going nuclear value. And trading it for two sort of like safe floor good players, but kind of middle of the lineup guys, you know, is another way that you bleed potential value. And so in everything they do, it just feels like they're trading, you know,

a 10 for a 9. And yeah, the 9 gives them a pair. but like they're still losing points. They're still losing value. They're still losing ground. And so at the deadline, by not selling, you sort of lose ground against those teams that did in the long term. And obviously have fallen further behind your Colorado's, your Winnipegs, your Dallas is in the, obviously Edmontons in the Western Conference.

And so, you know, you're not doing enough to slingshot yourself out of this middle that you found yourself in. you're certainly not doing enough to solidify it and catch those teams that are loading up at this time of year. It's just, I think once you deal J.T. Miller, once you trade your best forward, it feels like it's, it leaves you a little half pregnant. It leaves you a little like not all the way in when you don't sort of follow up the, hey, this is sort of a hard reset and we're going to come back and try to contend next year with a better blue. line group and we're going to need to pull some rabbits out of a hat in terms of adding to our attacking, like the dynamism of our attacking game. Adding cap space, adding assets just like helps you do that. Like even on the, even on the basis of wanting to be better next year and prioritizing the short term, it feels like this was insufficient to give them their best shot

at having like the sort of transformative summer that they probably need to have in order to sort of keep on an upward-ish trajectory here, and that's sort of my issue with it. I think you'd probably agree with this. The organizations that we view as the most well-run organizations are one that are ones that really prioritize flexibility and malleability, both in terms of assets, but also in terms of how they choose to act or conduct themselves based on new information and what becomes available. were just new opportunities, right?

And don't you feel like this Canucks team? And maybe this, I was going to say, it's like a classic Jim Rutherford thing, but maybe it even extends beyond that for them. It feels like the way they operate is like once they decide they're going to do something, they're just going to do it. Yeah. And so as soon as they acquired Marcus Pedersen, maybe even before that, they were like, we're just going to trade Carson Sousie.

And so once the opportunity presents itself to make that trade, it was like, they're just going to do it. Now I actually think the return is fine because that third is the sharks. third and that's a pretty high pick. And so I think that's totally fine. It's a sensible deal. They actually had a log jam on defense. You probably want to clear it up to create reliable minutes for Elias Pedersen,

the defender and Tom Vlander out of BU who probably signs before the end of the year and get some developmental minutes from Victor Mancini, see what you've got there. I mean, hockey-wise, it's a totally fine trade. But it's another just example of bleeding potential value that I think is like over the long Hall because this organization has so repeated, done so repetitively, I think it's left them a little stock.

You know, even you think about the center depth, the Vancouver had this enviable center depth with Horvatt, Pedersen, Miller down the middle just two years ago, but their blue line was a patchwork group. And it's like, Horvatt becomes Heronic. Miller becomes Marcus Patterson. And now it's like, hey, the Canucks have a pretty

good blue line, but how are they going to score? It's not like they've added or accumulated talent. They've just kind of whack-a-mold it. right it's like here's our strength now it's a weakness now we have a new strength that we've literally you can draw a straight line from the pieces that they've lost and sort of blown a hole in their lineup with with the pieces that they've solidified and it's not enough you need to you need to be adding like it's not it's not sufficient to get them to where they need to go i don't think and and so that's sort of you know there's there's a world where the connects make the playoffs and account for themselves well whether they win around or just like drag a series late into the first round and then extend Besser and Pew Souter to relatively reasonable deals this summer and we look back on it and say, hey, that made sense, right? Like, that's absolutely on the table for how we'll remember this Canucks deadline. So it's not like a disaster at the moment. I just think it's an opportunity missed for a team that needs to be more ambitious in my mind in terms of sort of picking up the pieces of this disastrous season and trying to get things back on track in convincingly,

enough that when Quinn Hughes is considering, you know, his extension eligibility next summer, this is a more appealing spot to be than the team that employs both of his brothers. So in hearing you talk about that center depth, you're telling me that Philippeal, Josh Norris, and Teddy Bluger down the middle is not doing it for you heading into next year. They're playing again after we record on the Sunday evening. It's a banged-up star's team on a second of the back-to-back. So we'll see their most recent game. beat the Minnesota Wild. They beat the Minnesota Wild, and I think very encouragingly some signs of the old Eliza Pedersen.

Yeah. And power play, bomb, the little kind of like stick handling in tight around the goal, which didn't result in a goal. But like that type of creativity and involvement is something that used to be a staple of his game that's been few and far between this season. So I think those are huge signs. For sure. The shot counter also looked bad in that game from from the perspective of it being like a Kevin Lankin's stolen win. And it was, especially in the second. half of the contest where it really did look like the Wild were taking over, including, you know, hitting a post on a glorious rush opportunity, like two minutes before the Vancouver Canucks managed to score the game winner. But I actually thought Vancouver's pace with the puck, right? The Wilde gave them all sorts of trouble in their own end of the rank, which is a little bit against type, actually, for this Vancouver Canucks team. But this Canucks team actually was able to attack with speed through the neutral zone and give the Wild some issues. And actually, I sort of, as

I'm not trying to change the conversation. We can sort of keep dwelling on the Kinex thing if you want. But I do wonder, I think I'm good. I do wonder with the wild losing Kusinedinov and bringing in Brezzo. You know, you've got Folino, you've got Brazzo, you've got,

obviously Eric Zinnak, who's a very high caliber of player. They've got Trennan. Yeah. You know, especially in the central, where everyone else got fast, or is fast, and then the avalanche are both fast and big. I do sort of wonder if the wild tip over into do they have enough team speed on that side of the bracket.

I do sort of wonder if they end up there. Well, they're probably going to play big. They're probably going to crossover, yeah. And that's a bad matchup in terms of size and speed. Yeah. Yeah, it's not great. I just, one of my takeaways was I do wonder if they almost got too big. at the expense of speed, and you know how I feel about Brzo.

So this is not a negative take about that trade. I liked that move in a lot of ways, especially if they're able to retain him on a reasonable extension. But I do worry that they may have lost a little bit of pace. And in my first sort of chance to watch them, I'm like, the Canucks speed is giving them issues. That's not a great sign. There's four points separating Utah, St. Louis, Vancouver, and Calgary right now

for that last remaining playoff spot in the West. and maybe we can say it for next week because I do want to talk about the devils before we get out of here, just in relation to the trade deadline. And Utah obviously didn't do anything in terms of improving their team, which I think was maybe a bit surprising.

They've been playing, I know their most recent game in Chicago, they kind of let a point go away. I believe they're up to 17 one goal losses now, so I've been tracking here, which only the Blackhawks and sharks have more one goal defeats, and that's really disappointing.

But man, like we watched that game that played previously in Detroit together since the four nations. at 5-1-5, they're up to 60% chance, 59% expected goal, 57% shot shares in seven games, I believe. And we both love the way they're training the power play as well is also creeping into the top 10. And you've been noticing Barrett Hayden's down-low playmaking, yeah. And then, and then, you know, that Detroit game, Gunther hits a post square that would have made it 5-2 in the third period. The moment he's got a sliver of daylight in the high slot, he's reaching a point where it's basically just automatic.

And Barrett Hayton's finding him. He's finding Schmaltz, too. He's finding Keller. But, I mean, he's finding him. There's some synergy going on, like shades of Nick Folino, Sam Gagne, for the real heads. There's some synergy going on there with a lefty finisher on that right side, a half wall and a righty making plays really ably from the net front. Barrett Hayton's been impressive to me. So that's 2016 Blue Jackets, 2017?

It was around that range. I remember that power play. And I also love that they were using fourth liners. at 5-on-5 on the top unit powerplay, absolutely matching. It was delightful. Now, that's what we do here in the Sunday special. Let's go. Let's put a pin in this conversation about the West Wildcard race,

because I believe next Sunday night, we're going to get a Utah Hockey Club first, Vancouver Canucks matchup. Maybe we record the Sunday special afterwards. I think we should. I think we should. And we'll talk more about that game and we'll see where I'm actually taking my nephew to that game. I'm going to that game as a fan, which I haven't done at Rogers or nine years. yelling shoot? I'm not. No, I'm, uh, I'll teach him to though. You're going to be like,

hey, check out what Barry Hayden's doing now. Yeah. Hey, you see that Jack McBain wallplay? Let's end with this. I want to talk about the devils. Because when we're speaking about the trade deadline, we're focusing a lot on what teams did to improve their teams. And I was talking to you about this before we went on air. And I think that the devils, it's kind of smaller stakes, because what they wound up sending out isn't that consequential. And I think the opportunity cost of not improving their team significantly the way Winnipeg did, or didn't, for example, is less seismic for the purposes of this season

because Jack uses out and I think they're pretty limited. They spent a second, a third, another third on the prospect they took 91st overall last summer, and a seventh. On Brian Dumlin, Cody Glass, and Daniel Sprong, who they could have had previously for free on waivers. And I think the most puzzling part for me and why I'm kind of troubled by what Tom Fitzgerald did here is you were mentioning Dumlin and the price that he went for, right? And comparing that to what Susie went for and what he could have next year.

We just saw Brian Dumlin in kind of a similar spot as Susie having another year left on his deal out around that kind of three-ish million range. He went for a fourth going from Seattle after they signed Brandon Montre to Hamann, right? And in this deal, it feels like the devils, I get why they did it for. from a hockey fit perspective because Sagan dollars out for the year, they have young right shot defensemen just adding like a veteran presence on the left side, I think is valuable for them. But they paid a premium to get that 50% retention as a team that wound up having

7.6 million of unused cap space. Now, they made that deal, I think, the day before the deadline. So it's possible that they were in the mix for something bigger that would have occupied that cap space and they wanted to keep their options open. But you put that all together. and what you have at the end of day to judge them on, I find very puzzling. So it might not seem like the most consequential thing,

but I think this is a team that you and I both agree. The reason why we care and why it matters is despite how frustrating the last year and a half or two years have been in New Jersey, their runway is probably as well positioned as pretty much anyone to just build a great team over the next five years if a few things go their way and they kind of tactically map all of this stuff out.

and I'm becoming increasingly worried that like we're already seeing them on tilt now a little bit after the Jackie's injury and like losing all these games and all of a sudden Columbus is breathing down their neck for third in the Metro. The Rangers keep winning games and all of a sudden it's becoming closer and closer amongst those teams. And it feels like they might become a bit vulnerable of like overcorrecting and panicking because of what's happened and losing sight of what's to come, I guess, for them. Yeah, I think that's interesting. look, the full sort of shape of their deadline sees them spend an awful lot for very little. I think it's fair to say. I know Cody Glass scored a goal. They wound up on Friday night.

They just get absolutely blasted after the deadline by the Win of Big Jets at home, right? And then on Sunday afternoon in a matinee game, they squeak out a win in Philly. Cody Glass scores a goal, has a nice game for them. And at the same time, I'd argue they didn't really address any of their weaknesses. as a team. Yep. And they didn't really improve to a point where I'd be like, all right, well, it makes sense that they just gave away three or four assets.

Yeah. And I think there's an interesting contrast actually with their most probable first-round playoff opponent, right? Where, you know, I think one underrated factor of what Carolina decided to do with Ranton, right, is I think last year they looked at it and said, we're playing at the level of an inner circle contender. Let's bring in Jake Gensel and go for it. And I think they probably looked at their team this year and said,

we are not playing at the level of an inner circle contender this year. So let's keep our powder dry. And in fact, let's lengthen our runway. I mean, I feel like there's a hugely disparate approach in evidence, basically, between Carolina being like, nah. And frankly, their window this season's probably more open than the devil's is in the wake of the Jack Hughes injury anyway. But the devil sort of still behaved almost like a deadline buyer.

They're like tinkering on the margins. Tinkering on the margins. But with real assets, a second round pick, a third round pick, a seventh round pick, and it's sort of hard to justify it feels like given, you know, how maybe they could have been a little more ruthless in terms of assessing where they're actually at this year. All of that said, any day you sign Jonathan Kovsevich long term is a good day. I think that also makes them probably the most interesting team

this off season because I'm very curious. You mentioned Kovsayor, and he's our guy. He was literally on our guy's list before the season. You were talking so glowingly about him, and I think he's rewarded our faith, although you look at the splits with and without Jonas Ziegenthaler this season and they maybe paint a potentially concerning picture. Well, I didn't say it was the top four guy.

Yes. But now they're spending, what, nine and a half million on the right side, on him and Brett Pesci for at least the next handful of year, And then Dougie. And then Dougie, I mentioned this in terms of the sharks and this conversation of like, they have all this cap space, they don't have enough NHLers. What are they going to do? You look at Dougie's deal.

And 9 million A.A.V for the next three seasons after this one, he's a 10.55 million signing bonus July 1st. After that, I think he's owed less than $15 million combined for his final three years and his full no move becomes a 10-team trade list. I believe. And so not that the Sharks would maybe be on his 10-team trade list, but I do wonder if that becomes an option for them or they decide to view this season by Shimon Nemitz

and the way Sheldon Keeves talked about him publicly as an eject button. I'm curious to see what they do there. You also get into like their bottom six has been so bad this year. Yeah. And they're spending real money on guys like Pilat and Hala and both those guys as well go from full no moves to interesting trade lists.

So I think all of a sudden become deal options as well. I just feel like the devils, I'm so fascinated to see how they approach this offseason. Maybe how this season ends will dictate that a little bit. I'd argue it probably shouldn't. But it seems like they're ripe for something. Yes. Yeah.

And ripe for something with pieces that tend to have value on the right side of the defense. Right? I mean, that's not a bad place to be, generally speaking. You know, I think we still remain high on the devil's long-term outlook. It's just, it's hard to make sense of... That's why we give them this tough love.

Exactly. It's just hard to make sense of what this, like, what would you say you accomplished here? Right? It's just, it's hard to make sense of how this helps them short or long-term or how it fits into sort of any strategic underpinning, frankly. I wanted to end with this. It's kind of random, but I feel like also fits. I want to talk to a little bit about Jackie's. Okay. Because I've seen now that he's out and following that Four Nations showing, I've seen criticism of his on-ice impact as the way he's treated as like one of the shortlist superstars in the league.

And I just vehemently disagree with it. I think you either have some sort of hidden agenda for why you're bashing him as a player. Yeah. or you simply do not know puck. And I don't know which one of those would be more concerning in terms of listening to that criticism. He's a top 10 player. He's an unbelievable player. He's a top 10 skater. He just also happens to be the second best NHL player from his own family.

He does. I do think a fair concern is the fact that he's not even 24 years old yet, and he already has racked up three major shoulders injuries with that frame and with the ability to withstand punishment in this sport, which is very unforgiving in that way. I think that's a fair concern in terms of the upside of the devils and whether they can make a big run. But the on ice play stuff is just a non-starter for me.

So I just want to get that out there while we're talking down. The reason I think it's a concern is obviously it's a joint, a relatively exposed one. If you move like an F-1 car, like Jack Hughes just plays at such a wild speed, he moves like a superhero out on the eye. like the flash or something. And that's, that's sort of why.

It's like it's a play style plus comparison for me that would make it, I think something will obviously be monitoring going forward. But, you know, the fact that his season ended with an injury that Quinn Hughes is going to be less than 100% and sort of soldiering through, like I promise you in Michigan, there's going to be three brothers like scientifically going to the Tom Brady School of Injury Prevention all summer and probably figuring out a thing or two.

about how to make sure they're more available going forward. Like, no one is going to approach that more scientifically or rigorously than those guys. We spend a lot of time fixated on the race in the West in terms of the wild card, right? Because I spent a lot of time fixated on the East. But, man, that Ottawa game? This Blue Jackets team? Yes. We'll see they're playing the Rangers tonight.

But as of right now, as we're recording, the devils are only six points up on them for third in the Metro. Now, that sounds like a lot this late into the season. The Blue Jackets have three games in hand, and they play each other head to head twice in the next eight days, I believe. And I think the... I think no one wants to see Adam Ventilly is really what it comes down to. Absolute beast mode against the New York Rangers in the second period. What I was going to say, though,

is that I don't think it's necessarily a great reward for either team because this Carolina Hurricanes team that is flawed and got worse at this deadline is so perfectly set up to absolutely dismantle both of those teams in a series, especially the Devils without Jack Hughes where you can just load up on Eco Hishir's line and all of a sudden they have nothing really to work with offensively. But it'll be interesting to see,

especially since the Devils, by the way, do not have their first round pickets top ten protected. It's going to Calgary. What if I had told you at the start of the season when we were talking about how the Flames are going to be the worst team in the league, that there's an outside shot that the Flames first rounder was actually going to be worse than the Dalygris. devil's first rounder this season.

I think you would have thought I was absolutely out of your mind. Out of my mind. And it is suddenly in play. And I mean, it wasn't pretty. The, uh, the Calgary won nothing victory over, um. Hey, just grind out two points, baby. That's something the Utah hockey club could desperately need. Desperately needs.

No, but you know what? Going six, six points for six games in that murderous road trip. Yeah, playing all the best these teams. Yeah. And, and like, and then Dallas at the end. And, and, yeah, and taking Dallas to overtime, you know, they had, they had a shot in that game. I mean, they weren't, they weren't even out. They were probably the better team in Tampa Bay. Like, they probably could have beaten Tampa Bay, given the flow of that game.

I just, I haven't had enough flame stock all season. And I want to, I want to give them just like loads of credit for the way that they're hanging around in this race. The, the max effort, the max preparation side of their game is still playing. And at the very least, I think we, we got to tip our caps to them and just say, I'm at least confident that they're going to be annoying to the end to all the teams around them in the standings. And in those last two games, Joel Farabee. Yeah. Legitimate offensive juice, creating goals for that, which is something they so badly need.

The dek on Biscoll is incredible. All right, Tom, we're going to get out of here. That's it for another Sunday special. Everyone go follow Tom's work at the athletic covering the Canucks and also his show here on the Sportsnet Radio Network. My plug is to join the PEOCast Discord. Now that the trade deadline's done, we're just going to get to watch meaningful games together. So that's awesome.

We're also this week, by the way, doing a giveaway there for a couple free copies of Jack Hans' new Hockey Tactics' 2025 books. So I imagine that's of interest to our listeners. So if you want to get involved in that and try to get one of those free copies, get in there. And that is all from us today. The two of us will be back next Sunday, of course, probably late in the evening after that, Kanax Utah Hockey Club matchup. I'll be back on this feed Tuesday with our good buddy, Kevin Woodley,

which is always fun. Thank you for listening to the HockeyPediocast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.