The Hockey PDOcast - Schaefer's Rookie Season, State of the Metro, and Watching Games from Ice Level

Episode Date: January 30, 2026

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Thomas Hickey to talk about Matthew Schaefer's rookie season, the impact he's had on the way the Islanders are playing this season, the state of the Metro Division at this point in the season, teams that have impressed in live viewings, and stuff he's picking up while watching games from ice level. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the Hockeyocast. My name is Dimitri Philipovich. And joining me is my good buddy Thomas Hakey. Thomas, what's going on, Ben? I'm good. I'm good, Dimitri.

Good to finally link up. I'm very excited for this one. I'm not saying this just because you're on. I've been talking about it on the show throughout this year. You're one of my favorite color commentators in the game right now. I've been tuning into a lot of Islanders games to watch Matthew Shea. for of course, but I particularly look forward to the Amazon Prime national broadcast here in Canada every Monday. And I've been looking forward to setting this one up with you for quite some time now.

We're finally getting around to it. And the reason why I wanted to have you on amongst many other things is I want to get into a full Matthew Schaefer conversation with you because I think arguably no one is more uniquely qualified to talk at length about his rookie campaign and just what an impressive undertaking. It's been than you, not only because you, not only because you, you played the position for the Islanders for the earlier decade, but then you get this front row seat to watch him on the broadcast on a nightly basis. And I just want to break down all the stuff we're seeing from him, what's required of him on this IEL team,

and then how he's performing within it. What's been the most impressive part of watching this 18-year-old defenseman step into the league and just take over the way he has so far? Yeah, it's, there's so many different things. And obviously, everyone's talking about skating, because you don't see a guy really skate like that. It's the way he thinks the game. And I think the biggest takeaway that I have is his understanding

and veteran presence in areas that it takes not just teenage defensemen, but guys that are 21, 22, 23, 24 to understand, like, timing, circumstance in the game, when to go, when not to go. maybe subtle little things in a corner of keeping a puck going and breaking it out. He does all these things that other guys take so much time to be taught and he does it naturally. And he's 18 years old. But the biggest thing, the other big things that stand out, he carries himself in a way that I didn't really know was possible for anyone, let alone an 18 year old kid just with the confidence and the ability for him to really have,

this gravity around him but not come off arrogant or not rub his teammates or the opposition the wrong way but you know to get back to the hockey side of it just the understanding to be true of the way that he's always on attack he's always moving forward and you'll notice when you watch him play he's got this way of always carrying his momentum up the ice said always being able to get the puck with full speed. It's almost like a centerman coming low on a breakup. Maybe you pop it into the middle. When his D partner has the puck,

he's doing exactly that as well. Especially doing it under the just the sheer volume of his workload. And I've talked about how even in the first month of his NHL career, he was still playing, what, 22 and a half minutes or so. So, you know, quote unquote, easing him in, I guess, but based on what he's done since where it's been like a steady ramp up, not only in terms of the minutes he's played, but I think how much responsibility from a matchup assignment perspective

Patrick was put on his plate where he's started going up against the other team's best players, not being sheltered from a zone deployment perspective, and still producing and winning his 5-1-5 minutes the way he has. I mean, he's just under 1,300 total minutes so far through 54 games, which is the 14th highest total in the league just behind guys like Kail McCar and Josh Morrissey. And hearing you talk about sort of, figuring out on the fly how to pick your spots. He's certainly flying more often than not out there,

but I think we see even with a veteran defenseman, sometimes they kind of struggle. I think of all the Ryan Suter years during his prime when he would be playing like 27, 28, 30 minutes a night. And there'd be occasions where I'd wonder if that was a net positive for the team because he was undoubtedly a good player. But you could see that he was coasting on shifts here or there, I think preserving his energy for when he needs.

in it and Schaefer partly I think because he's so young I imagine he just has more energy reserves than maybe a veteran player later in their career but he's been able to to do it without any really you know having throwaway shifts or shifts where you're like all right well he doesn't have it on this one or even games where he doesn't have it it's so consistent from him every single night and every single shift seemingly yeah like a guy like suitor I loved watching him play because you know me as a defenseman I didn't skate obviously no one skates like Schaefer but I was closer to a than I was a Schaefer in the sense that a lot of Souter's game was get on the dot line, glide up and down the ice, and always stay in a great position where a Schaefer's game, it's constantly moving, whether that's skating backwards,

whether it's skating forwards, whether it's trying to time the play, like I talked about, he's always moving. And yeah, the fact that he's 18 years old and obviously in phenomenal shape and he's going to be able to play those minutes, there's no glide in his game. There's no rest in his game. It's a guy that when he gets on the ice, it's how can I make an impact, either offensively or defensively. Maybe it's surfing up in the offensive zone to snuff a play out before it even starts, but he's always on the move. And as far as matchups go, I mean, I think Patrick Guas handled it the right way at the beginning, out of the gate, looked like we're going to keep him on the third pair, play with

Scott Mayfield, maybe shelter his minutes and his time's gone on. But also got to note, Adam Pelock has been phenomenal this season. he's having such a bounce back year. So they share sort of those shutdown responsibilities. But now he's with Ryan Pollock, who's a steady, really steady, more of a stay-at-home guy at this stage of his career. And they get a ton of tough matchups in it.

It doesn't look like tough matchups for Schaefer because he's always got a great gap. He's always on the attack and on the offensive. And I think it puts a lot of guys in their healed and he spends a lot of time in the offensive zone. but he's got good size, but he's got great reach. So when he's going into the corners, when he needs to lay a cross check and then a poke against some of the top guys in the world, he can do that.

And of course, he's going to get beat from time to time. But his ability to recover and get back to good ice is as good as anyone in the NHL. And he's still got some little things to learn in his own zone and defensively against the top guys in the world, maybe, you know, maybe just positioning going into a battle and someone beating you off. but he's got that ability already to recover so quickly. So it makes him a good matchup player against practically anyone in the world.

And there are nights as we're seeing as his season goes on that it goes like this. It's either, oh my God, Schaefer was dominant. This kid is incredible. Or there's, wow, he's really good. Or the third stage, what you'd consider a bad game for him, where you go, didn't notice him too much, didn't do anything wrong. there was only a few shifts where he made me say, wow. Like that's a profile we're talking about for an 18-year-old guy.

Like his bad or okay game, I've gotten used to that now because you've probably seen it, I don't know, we'll call it between a dozen and 20 times. And it's still a net positive for the hockey team and he's still playing 25 minutes that night. I think what's my favorite part about watching him and I put together this mixtape of his rush chances

through the first 40 games or so this season and what really stood out within that is the way he utilizes his teammates, right? I think there's certainly a couple of his peers that come to mind that are considered the top defensemen in the league and, you know, generate all these offensive totals and they're such a threat with the puck, but they do it in such a puck dominant way where, especially if you think about a guy like Quinn Hughes, like the amount of time he spends, especially in zone, just kind of cycling around the zone, looping back, trying to shake a defender. and all of it's done, you know, it helps his team and it creates advantageous situations,

but if you're playing with there with him, you're kind of just watching him do that. And I think it's easy to get stagnant at times in terms of wondering when you're going to get the puck or kind of knowing that you're not going to be asked to do too much with it. And Schaefer, by comparison, utilizes his teammates so well. And especially on the breakouts where he can fly, certainly, and he can go coast to coast and do an end-to-end rush and just beat everyone weaving through them by himself. but I love, and I imagine it must be so fun to play with him because of this, the way he gets easy and early puck touches for his teammates.

And I think that gets everyone into the game. It makes them feel involved. And they know that as soon as he gets it to them, he's going to flash open himself. He's going to be moving up the ice. And then it provides an easy outlet for them. And so in a way, I feel like it just makes it so much easier for everyone else involved

because of that specific tendency that he plays with. You're 100% right. He's a give and go-huh. hockey player. He's a defenseman that's a give and go player. And some of my favorite times or the favorite things about watching him is right after he's passed the puck. And I think this is what you're talking about, whether it be on a neutral zone transition, like on a regroup where you go D to D or maybe it's coming out of your end, especially with Matt Barsell on the ice, but it's almost more enjoyable to watch him without the puck. So he'll give the pass. And then you just see this

skating stride that you haven't really seen this fluidity but not raceful but just this flow that he gets going up the ice and he gives the puck and then he demands it back not because he's not in a good spot because he's getting to open ice areas that he's just naturally learned whether it be at the junior level at the NHL level are going to be open because he's beat his man up the ice and all of a sudden it's given go hockey you're right the greats of the game right now in macar and Hughes can hold on to the puck and be on a merry go round in the offensive zone and make guys look silly. Schaefer does have some of that in his game. I think that's the next evolution for him is how to be more dangerous on the offensive blue line.

And I've seen that probably around the 25 game mark. That sort of sparked and took off. He tried it a couple times and clearly he's done it in junior and made guys look silly. He's added more of that to his game. But you're right, Dimitri, it's his ability to use his. teammates and give and go and get to open ice and it's it's not like he just holds on to it at that point he's then giving it back and just blowing past people and the amount of times we've seen him be in a situation where he might give that puck on a neutral zone regroup and he might be

right around his own defensive hash mark in front of his goaltender and then the next touch that he has it's in the offensive zone and someone's thrown into his space and he's just flying there and he beat eight other guys up the ice. Well, and I think the most, and there's so many stats we go through that kind of reflect just how impressive he's been. But I think one particular feather in his cap that I've been tracking throughout is he's up to 28 penalties drawn this season and just to put that total in a proper context. The next highest defenseman in the league is Nikita Zedorov with 20.

And then Niko Mikul and Rasmus Anderson was 17. Now those guys generate a lot of penalties drawn because they also take a lot themselves and they have a lot of these like offsetting minors where you're not actually creating a powerplay situation, you're just getting physical and going four on four. And Schaefer obviously doesn't necessarily do that. He does it through constant motion and just putting defenders in a bind, whether he's on puck or moving into an open space, waiting to receive it. And so he's creating all these extra advantageous scoring opportunities for his team throughout

not the powerplay hasn't necessarily been that efficient so far. We can talk more about that later. But nonetheless, I think that's, really cool. I wanted to ask you about this because he scored what, his 14th goal last night in MSG and it was a beautiful play where he's kind of coming downhill, drags the puck in,

and beats Jonathan Quick, cleanly short side. It made him six in the league amongst defensemen in goal scored. And yet despite the fact that he's an 18 year old defenseman who's probably going to score 20 plus, if not 25 goals this year, I feel like in watching his games this year, it's almost a tip

of the iceberg in terms of like how much room there is to even grow there. And I think specifically within that bread and butter play of his where he attacks the net and then goes right to left and on his forehand tries to get the goalie moving laterally and beat them. And he scored a beautiful goal against the leaves earlier this season doing so. But he's kind of been inefficient even within that. Like it's a great scoring opportunity and he's making something out of nothing. But he hasn't even converted as many of those as he probably will once he gets an extra off season to like get back in the lab, work with his skills and development coach,

obviously get stronger, I think, to hold guys off a little bit more and then convert within that play. And so it's crazy to say about a defenseman because for anyone else pretty much, you'd say 20 goals from a defenseman that's rarefied air, that's already elite. And I feel like there's still even so much more room to grow

just within that stat. You're right. I mean, there's been 14 this year, easily could be past 20 already. That goal that you're talking about against the Leafs, the night that Matthews passed Sundin, the tying goal from Matthews 420

was the same goal Schaefer scored, right? Comes down, power move, drives the D-wide, and right to left, outweights the goalie and scores. Schaefer did it, dare I say, better than Austin Matthews, that game after Matthews did it. I would say Schaefer's got anywhere between a dozen and 20 of those looks this season, and I think he scored on one, maybe,

two of those. So you're right. It is the tip of the iceberg in the sense that he has his head up like the goal he scored last night. An awesome wrist shot from the point and he'll score a lot of goals on that. He'll score a lot of goals joining the rush. But the fact that when he's facilitating the rush and getting those looks like a driving the net, you see a power forward to, tip of the iceberg. He's going to learn how to finish those better. And he even said after the game, that game, he said, I've had a lot of those and I haven't converted and I'm really happy I did now. The only one thing I would say

is I do hold my breath because a lot of those times he takes contact and goes into the goalie. If there's one thing that I will say is a criticism to him this year and it's not a criticism, it's actually, you know, I think it earns a lot of respect. I don't want to say he's careless with his body. He does take a ton of contact and that's sort of the next step and I don't want it to wait until next year. I think maybe there's already been those conversations. of protecting yourself better. But it just sort of shows what type of kiddie is. Like at any cost, I'm going to have an impact on this game,

even if it means putting myself in a little bit of harm. And that power move of driving to the net is the time that it shows up over and over again. Well, you're absolutely right. He actually leads the league so far with 140 hits taken. Now, I can't remember too many of those that he actually, you know, got caught with his head down by a four checker. and got stapled and really took significant damage. But they certainly add up.

And in particular, some of those where he's kind of flying around. And I even think of the wire, I'm not sure if you register as a hit taken, but the one in Chicago where I think it was four on four, whatever, it might have been shorthanded. And he knocks a puck away in the blue line and then drives the net and just goes like flying full speed into the post. And you're like holding your breath thinking, oh, my God, is he going to get up? And then he just gets up, dusted off and is back out there for his next shift. But that's why I think that it's not just the minutes.

but the wear and terror, that getting nearly three weeks during this Olympic break is going to really benefit him both physically and mentally because of that. And now selfishly, I would have loved to see him on that international stage playing with the best players in the world. I think he would have thrived within it. I would have had him on my prospective team Canada roster. And I wish that even if he wasn't within their plans, he came as an extra player just to get the benefit of that time soaking up all the knowledge and trying.

tricks and stuff off the ice from the best players in the world. But for the purposes of both him and the Islanders this season as they're in this playoff race in the Metro, I imagine he's going to benefit quite a bit from getting a couple weeks away from the ice just to recharge, reset, and then come back for the stretch run, maybe even better than he's been so far. Totally agree with you. I echo the same sentiments in the sense that I wanted to see him there. I'm not saying they made the wrong decision, but if they put him on there, I'm like,

He's not going to be afraid of the moment. I'll guarantee you that. And he would have, he's a special guy, so he rises to the moment. And he would have found that juice. He would have found that spark. And he would have found a way to wow you, make an impact and stand out, even as an 18-year-old. But to your point, I think it would have delayed an inevitable some point running out of gas or running low. And he hasn't hit a wall.

I'm not saying that at all. But you're right. This three weeks, when you think about his capacity that he has already, the greatest athletes in the world with the top capacities are also the ones that can utilize the recovery as well as anyone. And three weeks off for him is going to be, I agree. I think he's going to come back. And after this Olympic break, be one of the best defensemen in the world from late February until the end of the hockey season. Now, I want to transition this into a conversation about the aisles and just their season as a whole and kind of breaking some of that stuff down.

I think a natural segue is something I've been discussing throughout is while marveling at all the individual totals and everything he's putting on tape, probably the most impressive component of this rookie season for me is, you know, we see a lot of top prospects, especially first overall picks coming into the league. And I think give a facelift to the organization and their fan base just because, you can see the hope, right? You see flashes throughout and you're like, all right, we're moving in the right direction. There's a reason to believe that we've turned a corner and a couple years down the road,

we're going to be competitive again. In this case, though, what he's done is he stepped in and I think fundamentally transformed the way the Islanders play. Now, I don't want to take away the credit from, you mentioned Pellick being healthier than he's been in the past. Matt Barsall certainly,

who only played 30 games. We've seen Anthony Duclair score more goals this month alone that he did all up last year in his first year with the Islanders, Emil Heideman comes in and discovers a scoring touch and has 15 goals himself, I believe, but just their playing style in terms of the rush chances and pushing the puck up the ice

and trying to be a bit more aggressive, it really doesn't equate to what we watch and what we consider the Islanders to be in the past, even when they were successful, where they're much more of a grinding team, forechecking, dumping it in, kind of slowing the game down, trying to prevent stuff.

It's led to some defensive issues which you can get into, which I think Seroke and Riddick have certainly done their fair share of glossing over. But I do think from an entertainment perspective, it's certainly a much more fun product to watch. But I also think within the context of today's game and how you need to play to be successful, it's the right move in terms of transitioning, for lack of a better word, into that direction. And I do give him a lot of the credit for that because I think it's infectious when you just see the way he moves and moves the puck up the ice. it's almost impossible not to gravitate towards that playing style.

Yeah, he's revitalized so many of his teammates, especially the veteran guys. There's a different energy that they play with now, and a lot of that is to do with Matthew Schaefer, but the Islanders as a whole, I don't get mad, but the biggest misnomer in hockey, at least surrounding the Islanders,

is that this is Barry Trots' New York Islanders from five or six years ago. And even up to the start of this year, last year, the year before that, everyone's like, oh, you're playing the Islander's probably going to be a low scoring, tight checking affair. They don't give much, they don't get much. That's not been the case, not at all. I mean, metrics wise, as far as the chances, the quality of chances that they've given up

over the last three or four years, they would rank, you know, 25th and below on average in so many different areas, they give up a lot. They've got great goal tending. So, yeah, the game might end up 2-1 or 3-2, but sometimes I'll hear coaches say, well, they don't give up much. It's going to be a tough night. It's like, okay, I do understand that,

and you guys watch tape, but I think there's a reputation of the organization that isn't actually true to how they play. And I give Patrick Dua a lot of credit in the sense that even with the way they play, now they don't dump pucks in and at the start of the year i was saying this is not sustainable you come across the red line and the blue line and you look for a play every single time and you really have no forecheck you don't dump the puck in yeah you're going to get some chances but you're

going to give so much back coming the other way that hasn't actually happened sort of a unique it's probably a case study i think for a lot of coaches to look at how do you squeeze offense out of a group that doesn't actually score too much um they've found a balance in that Don't get me wrong, they're still giving up a ton, but they've got a phenomenal goaltender, and Dave Riddick's done a really nice job. Actually, above that, as a backup guy. But yeah, they play a unique style.

It's not run and gun, but they try to maximize what they have offensively, and a lot of that is off the rush, trying to create plays right as they cross the blue line. And I think once they put a fourth line together that had Sizekis Gat-Comb and Kyle McLean, and those guys are sort of like, we're not going to be those guys. We're just going to go down with the puck.

There's a forechecking element that's come out of the islanders, and a couple of lines have adopted that at certain times of the game, probably when it makes more sense and it's smarter to do that. But in summary, Schaefer's brought a confidence and a swagger to the group. Absolutely. And I think every guy I've talked to on the team would admit that, young or old. But it is not the islanders of the Barriotra era. it's a different group.

And some nights it's extremely fun to watch. And other nights, they're trying to play that way and don't really have it. It's just the way it goes. But they're entertaining probably 80% of the time. Yeah, I've been pushing back on that a lot on this program, where especially when you tune into national broadcasts who are necessarily watching on a night day basis, you kind of go through the same talking points.

And I think it's easy you look at a stat like goals against, for example. It's like, oh, they're top five. They must be playing that way. I just really not the case. And Sorokin in particular, who's first in the Besnard's market, I think up to fifth for heart, and I think deservedly so, has been the best goalie in the world. Riddick has been good when he's been called upon. And I think they're going to need him to continue that because they have a bunch of back-to-backs down the stretch.

But I love watching Sorokan right now. And I had Kevin Woodley on earlier this year. We were talking about some of the changes with them making the goalie coach switch and that kind of unlocking him or getting him back into his form. I was looking at the numbers. October, 87, say percentage, November, 922, December, 928, this month of January, 936, with three shutouts in eight of his starts. And he's just been remarkable.

And I think that enables a lot of this as well. It would probably be a different conversation we'd be having today. If they weren't getting that type of goaltending, it would be like, man, they're struggling, they're giving up so many goals against. Can you afford to play this way? But I think the combination of those two guys allow. them to, I think, walk that fine line better than a lot of teams would be capable of. Yeah, you're totally right.

And I think the unique thing when, and you probably see it. And for anyone that watches Sorokin, because you don't see him all the time, right? If you're watching an Islander's game, he presents small. I think he's 6'3. He's a pretty slender guy. But he presents small. When you look at him in the net and take a goalie that 6-1 or 6-2, maybe look at their gear, look at the way, if you watch him in a warm-up,

you go, it looks like there's a lot of net to shoot on this guy. He doesn't present like a big goalie. I'm a big fan of Pierre Greco, who they let go. And with the go with the goaltending change, things just sparked for Seroca. The things I will say is for a guy that doesn't present big,

when you move laterally, it seems like there can sometimes be a lot there, whether it be under both of your arms, the top side of the net, maybe the glove. He's extremely compact. And maybe that's been the biggest change in his game since the goaltending changes.

It looks like a guy that's tight everywhere. There's no holes in his body when he's moving laterally. His puck tracking has been sensational. The timing of his saves and the timing of the goals that he gives up, ones that aren't great are usually right at the start of the game and that he battles back and settles in. He's been outstanding. I've always been the biggest fan at Leo Sorokin.

It's long thought. He's the best goalie in the world. the year that Linus Olmark won it deservedly. I thought that was Sorokin's best year ever, and he's been better than that this year. A big part of that, I think, is having a guy like Riddick, not overtaxing him with Semy and Barlamov, the last couple years, a great number two goalie.

He just hasn't been available, and he got to a point where the Islanders, just outside of the playoff cut line, with a third goal tender that maybe the coach didn't have the full belief in, and they would ride Sorokin probably more than they should, of a guy that's not that big. And this year, the relief of Riddick, it's even allowed Sorokin to have a time when he's been injured

and not have to rush back and get fully healthy and maybe a blessing for the Islanders just as much as Matthew Schaefer. Not going to the Olympics is the fact that Ilya's not going to be going to the Olympics either. And that's three weeks for him to, I mean, this guy's pathetical and takes care of his body in season as good as any goaltender in the NHL. So he's going to come back refreshed as well. But yeah, deservedly the top guy, Vesna wise, and also deserving to get these Hart Trophy nominations that I think, or at least buzz, that is going to continue to grow if the islanders play this type of style. and he continues to put up the numbers he does.

Like save percentage this year, in my mind, is not the same as years past because the auditing on shots. So the fact that his numbers are what they are now, I was talking to Corey Schneider, you know, longtime NHL goalie. And he said, you know, it's not 10 points on the say percentage, the difference with the shots that they're taking away and the audits they're doing, you know, but it's probably around five to eight points, say percentage wise. and his numbers are as good as guys in the past five years

that maybe had a 920 or a 925 and he's there right now with the way shots are counted. Also, teams have just changed the way they attack offensively so much where you're seeing so many fewer instances of like those low percentage shots span from the point that I think goalies typically love because they inflate their stats and let them feel the puck. And instead, just right out of the gate,

you're facing either a rush chance or a two-on-one or some sort of an east-west move. type of play where you have to come across and make the save. And so it's harder than ever. You see that in league average, say percentage is down at 896, which is ridiculous. And yet, Seroquins 917 still stands head and shoulders above pretty much all of his peers. All right, Thomas, let's take our break here. And then when we come back, we're going to jump back into it.

I want to stretch the conversation out a little bit beyond the Islanders, look at the Metro, kind of move our way around the league as well through a bigger picture lens. You're listening to the Hockey Ocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. All right. We're back here on the Hockeypediodcast, joined by. Thomas Hickey making his first and hopefully not last appearance in the PDO cast because I'm really enjoying having him on. As I was teasing before we went to break Thomas, I want to talk a little bit about the Metro division. After the Islanders back-to-back wins against the Rangers, now three

in a row with the Flyers win before that. They're up to 65 points and 54 games. The Hurricanes are first, but you've got this surprising offensive juggernaut, Pittsburgh Penguins team. second in the division, the Islanders are right there with them for third. And then you've got this glut of teams behind them with the blue jackets, the flyers, the devils, and the caps there. And I keep waiting personally. I'm not sure if you feel the same way for teams like the devils and the caps to turn it on because I had such high expectations for them heading into the year.

And I think even you watched them on the right night and you can see the vision of how good of a team it can be. Yet there's been so many lows. and we're at the point of the season now where we're 50 plus games in and it's going to be such a sprint and grind down the stretch with back to backs and condensed schedules that I think these six, seven, eight point gaps that we're seeing in these playoff races are going to become even that much more insurmountable. So I'm not sure if we're at the point where we necessarily need to write those teams off or kind of view the teams that are in it as having very solidified positions.

But I'm curious for your take on kind of what you're seeing from some of those teams, how the Metro Division stacks out right now, and whether you share that same sentiment of being kind of surprised the way it's turned out so far. Yeah, I'm shocked the way it's turned out. There was early on in the year where obviously you can't judge the standings after about 20 games, but there was sort of buckets of teams where I'm like they're going to fall off and these guys are going to come up. And to me, it's just inevitable. Washington is one of those teams and Ottawa is one of those teams that I know we want to talk about the Metro,

but those are the two teams that I look at. And even today is that gap widens. I'm like, one of those teams has got to get in in my mind. Because when you watch them play, every time you see them live or you just take a look at their games and watch with a close eye, you're like the structure, the detail, control, the personnel that they have and the roster mix. I'm like, I just, I really like it. And I don't understand why the results are coming. Obviously in Ottawa, easy to pinpoint, can't get a save. but Washington in the metro is one that's really surprised me

after jumping out to really a stranglehold to start the season I was like you know they're going to be probably first the division maybe second and have probably a nice path towards making a bit of a run and we've got to this point and every day you wake up you check out the scores of what's going on and I think maybe it's pretty mature to say it as you see this divide in the standings of inside the playoff line, outside the playoff line, and then you go check out all the box scores over the last week or so, and maybe this is just the way things have shaken out,

just go, who's got the higher points percentage? Oh, that team won. Who has a higher points percentage in this game heading into the game? They won. They beat the team that didn't. And it seems like there's a lot of that couple outliers last night. But over the last week, there's been a whole lot of that. And I think we're starting to see that divide and as belief waivers for a lot of teams.

I think that's going to continue to happen after the Olympic break. What to make of the Metro. Yeah, Pittsburgh got off to a great start. And I think the second they dropped below that playoff line, everyone, including myself, was like, that was fun while it lasted. But, you know, they've been very good, you know, six, two and two in their last 10. And they're not slowing down at all. Jersey disappointed me so much. I thought they would be right up there as well.

It's a troubled group. Hard to put it any other way. Obviously, health for so many teams is a factor. I don't think that's the biggest issue for the devils. Don't really have the, don't have an identity, which I thought they would heading into the season. It's been a mess there. Is there still hope for the likes of Jersey and Washington?

and there definitely is, but you've pretty much got to run the table against your division the rest of the way through if you're going to get in. When I look at teams like Philadelphia, they play with structure, they put with a little bit of bite, they just don't have enough offense. They can't score enough goals. They don't generate enough even though they play a hard game. The Rangers, that's been a disaster and actually, even as a former Islander, a little disheartening to see, you know, the last two games, the last two nights back to back. Islanders, Rangers, and it was sort of no contest in the first game. And even last night's game, it was just like, one of the Islanders going to wake up and take over this game.

And they just did for a short little span, but it was never threatening from the Rangers. Columbus, going to get a coaching bump. I'm a fan of a lot of the pieces that they have and players they have. I don't know if they have it in the tank to charge up the standing. So the most logical one to me is the Capitals to find a way to catch either the Islanders or the penguins, but it's certainly looking to me, like it's going to be three metro teams in a playoff spot and probably five from the Atlantic.

Yeah, to your point about just looking at the standings and kind of knowing what to expect, I feel like every night, it's like, all right, every single Atlantic division team, except for maybe the Sends and the Leafs is going to find a way to win and just keep racking up points. And it's, that division's an absolute gauntlet right now. I want to close out today's show

by getting a little inside baseball with you. And in particular, you know, you get the benefit of this unique vantage point when you're calling these games, ice level between the benches. I'm curious, first, if there's anything you feel like you pick up from that vantage point, that maybe might not be appreciated either for people watching from home or even people in the stands sitting further away with different angles, because I imagine the speed certainly plays more so than anything else.

But whether it's certain skills thing or tactical wrinkles or just trends around the league you're seeing. I'm curious for your take on kind of what you're seeing from that spot and what's working and what's not right now around the league. Yeah, that's, it's truly the best sports seat in my mind in the world. And I'm lucky I get to do it. A lot of times people will ask me, what do you like more? Being up top or being down low. And my response is, well, it's two different games. I see things from ice level that I didn't really see as a player sitting on the bench or being on the ice. But I see things from ice level that I don't see when I'm up in the press box calling a game.

And I do a mix of both. The thing that you see that stands out the most between the benches is where players are passing the puck. Is it going through someone's feet? Is it going underneath their stick? Is it going over their stick on a saucer pass? Yes, you can pick those things up on TV. And you can see it a little bit from up. top, but you can't see really all the thought that goes into it from the guys that do it.

So let's just say someone's at the red line and maybe they're getting pressure. You've got a rush coming up the ice. Just think of like three players coming up the ice defending against three players, sorry, the defenders have three guys back and there's sort of a rush up the ice. The pass through someone's feet or under someone's stick or maybe it's the subtlest little passer pass that just goes over, you get to pick up those angles and you see the guys that are able to make those plays. And there's a lot of guys that are just more direct hockey players that aren't going to go through someone. As far as power plays go, what I see from both advantages,

but even more from down there is, you know, the best power plays in the NHL are the power plays that pass through people, not around people. And I think any power play that struggles, you're either forcing it or it's too safe, but it's the skill of those top guys to pass it underneath a stick to the defenseman. And all of a sudden, he's got about a four or five foot advantage compared to passing it around the stick and having that maybe defenseman at the point have to skate those four or five feet and still be covered and still be checked. Maybe it's a goal line play or something low that's like a McDavid and a dry saddle play

where it's like they're doing this little give and go from the goal line to the half wall and one guy charges to the net. Other people aren't able to do that because they're not passing through feet and they're not passing through sticks, but those guys do every single time. And that's why they're so effective. One thing that really stands out from that vantage point and maybe a trend that's coming into the NHL and I think we're going to see more and more of it, five on five, defense on the half wall. Think of Quinn Hughes, think of Lane Hudson, think of Matthew Schaefer, not so much Cal McCar, even like a Tony DiAngelo. And there's a lot of guys that are gravitating towards a lot of times being on their offside. So maybe it's a rightie on the left side and he's on the half wall. Like watch Lane Hudson play. He gravitates towards the half wall constantly.

And the way teams are playing defensively, whether it be a center release or more of a man man when you see a defenseman go to the half wall and you've got a forward covering for them so think of like a normal play where you've got two players standing in the offensive zone on the blue line where defenseman would be but one of them's a forward the other one's the defenseman and the d man has the puck on the half wall from ice level you can see all the confusion that it creates because a lot of the rules that coaches use with a center release or like, hey, we don't want our defensemen to get drawn all the way out to the point. And all of a sudden you see a defenseman with the puck on the half wall and you see a freeze

from all five defenders on the ice. And you see guys looking around and you see their eyes. And they're sort of trying to figure out, okay, I'm a defenseman. Do I go attack the defenseman that's on the half wall? If it was a forward, I would go. But it's a defenseman. And all of a sudden, we're going to be caught out of control if I engage with him. And then he's, you know, starts going back out to the blue line, everything is in disarray, and it buys you so much time. And I think Hudson's naturally gravitated towards that area and learned that he gets a ton of time in space when he just sets up on the half wall. And I think it's a trend that you're going to see more and more teams do, and you don't need to be the most skilled player to occupy that space with the puck. But that's one of the trends that I'm really loving watching, and especially from ice level, because you see the confusion on all the guys' faces.

that are defending on the ice trying to sort through their heads like, should I go? Should I not go? And in hockey, like a split second or, you know, we'll call it a quarter of second or half a second is a lot of time for someone else to get open or someone to move into a good spot. And it's showing up more and more. And no one's really solved it.

And coach's biggest things are, you know, trying to find structure and rules within a defensive zone that takes out a lot of the decision making and just becomes automatic but when you get a D-man there it creates this level of thinking that makes guys process and buys a lot of time for your team offensively

and that might stretch into a 45 second shift where you score at the end or the defensive group's so tired that they finally do get the puck and they're changing and all of a sudden momentum carries on and the ice tilts and it becomes a different hockey game that's one of the biggest takeaways

I'm seeing. Yeah, all that motion in zone at 5-1-5 creates so many either mismatches or blown assignment just because of that confusion about who's picking them up, what you do in that spot, because it goes against all the rules that I think you've been hammering home for all your years coming up to the level you're at right now in the NHL, and we're seeing more and more of it. I had Brendan Dillon on last week, and that's why I wanted to talk to you a little bit about this. I'm so fascinated by that element. He certainly occupies a different role in the league then he's not necessarily in those spots that Elaine Hudson or Quinn he uses, but even what he's done in prolonging his career and getting to the 1,000 game mark,

he's put so much thought into his craft of the positions change so much since he came into the league in the mid-2010s, in terms of that approach, the processing, responsibilities, where you're not just attached to the blue line, and you get the puck, and you just hammer a slap shot onto the net, and you call it a day and get off the ice and make a line change. All of a sudden, now you're needing to play within that five-man unit and move around and be in different spots

and have an entirely different array of skills and I'm so fascinated by that and I think we're going to see that keep kind of moving in that direction and evolving to the point where I'm curious to see how defense is adapt and if there is a solution or if it's just going to be something

that teams are going to be able to exploit time and time again to an even greater degree. Yeah, it's the one thing, the trend at the start of this year and it was driving me crazy and I think league-wide teams are sort of getting a little bit better at it, But some teams want to play a man on man, like strictly man, a man, follow your guy, maintain D side.

But practically the entire league is shifted into swarming or overloading. So if they've got two guys in the corner, one of them has the puck and you're the defensive team. It's like, we're going to get three people in there right away. And at the start of the year for the first 30 games, the amount of times that maybe a player is, behind the net. And you're going to have, he's got a guy sort of on his backside. So he's still got his hands in the puck in front of him. And you'd have a defenseman racing from the net front,

trying to go stick on puck, going towards him below the goal line. And it's like a massive tritod. His feet are wide. Stick might not be in the right spot. And it's like, hey, I dare you to make this easy pass through my legs to the guy wide open in front of the net. And there was so many of those goals over and over again. It's because I think coaches were going, the game's so fast, we need to stuff things out.

I don't want our analytics to look bad of the amount of time we're spending in our zone. So let's just close it quick right away. Okay, well, you're giving up easy goals, preventable goals by swarming when you don't have someone pinned up against the wall. Or maybe their hands, maybe they're pinned, but they can still make a play with their hands. And it was driving me crazy. And I think you've seen a little bit of a drawback league wide of going, let's make sure that if we're going to rush and overload, It's when a guy's got his stomach up against the glass and we can afford to go without leaving someone in a scoring position because we know we're going to get that puck 100%. The defensive game is constantly evolving, but it's behind the offensive game.

And I think that that's fun for hockey fans because it's going to be a trend offensively that gets swallowed up defensively. and coaches will find a way to negate that. But at the same time, the next evolution, the next way teams are creating offense, is always going to be a step ahead, just like a defenseman on the half wall. And we're going to see that probably pop into the game over the next five years,

and we're going to find a good solution for it or resolution defensively, but stuff new is going to pop up. And I think as a hockey fan, you've got to be happy that the offensive trends come before the defensive trends. And I think in the past, it was the other way around.

Yeah, one thing you can count on is eventually, and three on three OT is a great example. If you give NHL coaches enough time, they're going to figure out a way to slow it down and make it less fun offensively. Let's close with this. I'm curious for your take on which team you've gotten in-person viewing of,

especially recently, let's say over the past, you know, month, six weeks or so, that you've come away most impressed with, whether it's from a playing style, perspective, personnel, or just kind of like an overall game plan structure, cohesion perspective. Because my answer to this question is always the lightning. I come away just blown away regardless of who's in their lineup.

They play so consistently and it's so suffocating. I'm not sure if they played those two close games in proximity against the Islanders. I'm not sure if it's outside of that time frame I just gave you. And the Islanders won both because Sorokin put together a couple masterpieces. But they did a lot of that same stuff in those. games despite the results, would they be your answer? Or is there someone else that comes to mind that you came away from it being like, man, I'm regardless of a result, just impressed with what I watch right now on the ice? Yeah, the lightning are up there. I've seen so much of the

lightning for so many years that I'm not surprised. Like, I think Cooper is always evolving as a coach, but the pieces that they find to make work somehow blows me away with what Breezebois does. and the fines that he has, whether it's drafting or free agents. So, yeah, the Lightning, absolutely. They're the best team in the Atlantic. I really, really enjoy watching Montreal. I think that their builds, even though they haven't been playing great hockey lately. Like last time I was in Montreal, watching morning skate,

and they've got a deep lineup and injured, and I know they've returned, but there was a line of, like, line A, Doc, New Hook, Jake Evans. It's like, okay, so they've got all this depth. I love the makeup of their decor because every single guy can make a lot of plays. And I don't want to say with the exception of Jack Eye, he can still make plays, but like, that's a heads-up back in. I think that's what's going to be winning hockey games down the stretch and even into the playoffs. It's not, you know, 2005 anymore where it's like, well, you just got to have all these big strong guys back there that are.

are going to make life miserable. No, you need to make plays. And Montreal has a nice mix. Minnesota Wilde, like my in-person viewings of them, just so impressed. And one of the games I saw, they lost to the islanders, but they dominated, but the addition of Quinn Hughes

and the balance and makeup of their D, you know, if they get Brodine back, at some point, just a really solid group. then they went into Toronto and completely outplayed Toronto and they didn't have their entire second line. They didn't have Boldie. They didn't have Eric Seneck and they didn't have Johansson. So I'm like, Minnesota is a team that I watch. I think I initially played with a boost of having Quinn Hughes and now they've settled into having Quinn Hughes. They just play the right way.

And that's the team. If I could pick one, I know that they haven't been great over their last tan or this little stretch. But I mean, I'm actually going to be there on Monday when they take on the Canadians. So I'm going to be in heaven. I got two, two with the teams that I really enjoy watching. But the Minnesota Wilder, the team to me that I look at and go, coming into the year, didn't have them as a Stanley Cup contender. And I absolutely do know. All right, buddy. Well, this is a lot of fun. I'm glad to finally get you on the show. What do you want to promote on the way out? Upcoming broadcast, as you mentioned, uh, the next prime one. is Habs in Minnesota, which will be a really fun contest.

Anything else you want to let the listeners all about? Yeah, that's the one. I mean, you know, any Islanders broadcast, I think, amongst myself and my colleagues, we sort of joke, you know, a lot more people reached out and saying, you know, enjoying the broadcast or watching the game. They're watching this because of the kid because of Schaefer because of 48. He's worth the price of admission and he's also worth your time viewing when you got some, but they're a fun hockey team to watch when you think about a guy that's probably going to win the Vesda,

a guy that's probably going to win the Calder Trophy. You get to see that. And it's all about Schaefer creating that buzz, but absolutely our Monday show on Prime, especially this one coming up on Monday. Like I know Minnesota is not maybe the biggest draw in Canada, but I have a feeling that's going to be a sensational hockey game. And, you know, if you haven't tuned into it, check it out.

You know, we're lucky and blessed to have the most resources, the best resources in hockey to put on a broadcast. And we only do it once a week. And as far as the cameras, the stories, you know, the quality of the stream, it's different than other broadcasts. And, you know, in a biased way, I think it's refreshing and enjoyable. So if you haven't tuned in and checked it out, I would say absolutely, Monday, would you be your time and if you're a regular, I think settle in. We're going to have a lot to cover and it's going to be a great game. So Monday's the day for that. Well, I'm certainly a regular tune in to all those. Keep up the great work, Thomas and looking forward to having you on,

especially come playoffs, I'm going to be reaching out to you and breaking some of this stuff's down. So looking forward to that. If you enjoyed today's show, give us a five-star review wherever you listen, subscribe to the PDOCS Patreon as well for extra content. We got a Penguins Deep Dive coming, did a breakdown of Josh Dones game after his contract extension last week. And that's all for another week of shows. I hope everyone is a great weekend. I'll see you back here on Sunday night for our usual Sunday special with grants. Thank you for listening to the Hockey P.D. Ocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.