The Hockey PDOcast - Spencer Carbery on This Year’s Compressed Schedule, Developing Young Players, and Things a Coach Can Control

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Spencer Carbery and Thomas Drance to talk about a variety of topics including learning from this year's Olympics, navigating the challenges the compressed schedule has created and the highs and lows that have come with it, the success the Capitals have had the past couple of years with pro scouting and the role a coach plays in putting those acquired players in a position to succeed, the balance of developing younger players at this level while you're trying to be a playoff team, and the things coaches can control during an NHL game. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the HockeyPEDEOCast. My name is Demetri Filippovich. And joining me in studio is my buddy Thomas Trans. Hello, hello. And also joining us. We got a three-man booth here today, a special guest.

I've been looking forward to this one for a while. I think it's the perfect way to transition out of the Olympic break, get back in NHL mode for the stretch run. Spencer Carberry, Spencer. What's going on, man? How you doing, guys? Thanks for having me on. Well, we're really excited to have you on.

First of all, we're obviously based in British Columbia. So we're thrilled to have one of Vancouver Islands finest on the program. Dmitri and I, of course, are big fans of the Northern Gulf Islands and a lot of the aquaculture up that way. But also, you know, we're admirers of your work with the capitals and a lot of the stuff you do, which we'll get into over the course of this recording. But I'm curious to start with this. you know, I've had the privilege of watching hockey with coaches, and I know how much all of you guys tend to pick up when watching games. And I'm curious because this Olympic tournament,

especially with some of these overpowered rosters, especially the North American teams, but Sweden, Finland too. When you're watching this, how much are you gathering intel-wise from some of the systematic approaches that these teams are taking at this tournament? I would say it's probably, 50 50.

Like 50% of me is it's the fan and watching the hockey game and watching the skill and all the creativity. And then the other half is I'm like, okay, Sully's running that with Team USA and uses with the Rangers. Okay. And Coop's got that. Okay. Interesting.

And seeing if what intricacies, Butch or Pete DeBore is brought from Dallas or Vegas that they're using in Team Canada that's different than Tampa. So you do find yourself. drifting to that spot and thinking about that. And the strategy and the systematic stuff is fascinating because you're thinking about you're bringing 20 players that all play different sort of systems in the NHL,

play for different coaches, different verbiage. So I'm fascinated with that. And I'm also, I've picked Tom's brain already and plan to do more so of how they do their meetings, how the verbiage that they would use in when to, describing their neutral zone four check or whatever it might be because it is fascinating when you have those short-term tournaments and you bring it all those different players together. With Canada specifically, and you're a Canadian too, this team versus what we saw eight years ago

in Sochi feels really representative of a certain trend we've seen in the NHL and that I think your Washington Capitals team is a strong example. of where, you know, that Babcock team in Sochi was so possession-based, right? So dominant in terms of that defensive side of the puck and really emphasizing, not shot volume necessarily, but certainly were less selective about the shots they took, more about sort of controlling the game. And now you're seeing, especially with that absurd first line that Canada's put together with Celebrini McDavid and McKinnon, you know, more of that emphasis on using all of the offensive

zone but being really disciplined about only taking the high quality shots from high danger areas. It feels like it's it's a it's an evolution in team Canada's approach that I feel like is a really interesting microcosm of the NHL game itself. Yeah. And I think a lot of what that comes from. This is just in my own personal opinion is that there's been such a emphasis now from us as coaches of offensive zone possession, tilting the ice. how much time can we spend on our opponents half of the ice?

So because, I mean, you think about it, it makes perfect sense. If the puck's down there, we're in good shape. So if we can keep it down there for 55 minutes, we're in good shape. You know what I'm getting that. So I think that's where you see a lot of coaches teaching and trying to emphasize, okay once we're down there we want to use the whole zone we want to be selective about what we do we don't want to throw it away we don't want to toss a low percentage shot in there that ends up going to the corner that they grab and now they break out and now they're in our zone so that um i definitely can see

that and i definitely see it with with coops teams in tampa and his ability to um sustain pressure and that is it's hard hard hard to play against teams it really sustained pressure because then you take it one step further. When we are on our best, we sustain pressure, but usually you're not scoring off that pressure. What you start to happen is now transitions open up. Now a team gets a puck out. They're very, very tired. You go quick up.

And now you've created a short three on two because they're changing. All those different opportunities when you do tilt the ice and you do have a team back on their heels and you've generated a ton of sustained pressure. And I think too, watching it, it does feel like the way that players in the NHL, but also this team Canada, are assessing the value of certain shots, right? What they're passing up on, what they're willing to pass up on. And sometimes, you know, there's a temptation watching his fans to be like, shoot, right? But the extent to which we see players in what 10 years ago would feel like a really good shooting lane,

where the expectation would be to shoot, we see more plays being made in the, those situations. And I'm curious how that's reflected in terms of how a head coach is communicating about offense to their teams. Yeah. And I'm always, again, my personal opinion, I'm very careful to use verbiage of shoot that puck when you're in that spot because you're taking. So yesterday's a prime example, the Andre Palat goal, I bet there was millions of people when I think it was Marty Neekash had the puck. It's like, shoot it, shoot it. And he drops that puck.

It even catches the defender off guard. And now you've just created an even more dangerous look. So for us as coaches and for me to go shoot that puck when you get on the fringe of the scoring area and limit your ability to potentially use a trailer, potentially find a slotline play, I think is just there is some elite, elite player. and even some of the players that you, like I'll give you an example. We have Nick Dowd on our team who's like known as a defensive specialist, fourth line center.

And that's, he's great at it. He's excellent. He can make a play like you saw yesterday. Like he can make an extra pass. And so for me to tell him like, no, you just need to shoot at far pad and look for the driver. Like that's crazy to me. So we try to not take it too far, but make sure that our guys have the ability to look for options and try to find trailers and see if we can find something more dangerous.

Yeah, we talk about that on a lot on the show, Spencer, about how, you know, league average, say, percentage is dipped to 896 or whatever a level we haven't seen in a long time in the NHL. And part of it is guys are entering the league more skilled than ever, right? They've all got these skills coaches, obviously better equipment. There's any number of factors that go into it. I do think a big one, though, is that thoughtfulness offensively that we've seen around the league that's really started with the top players and now is trickled throughout most

teams process where you're passing up good shots for potentially great shots. And so it's going to result in lower volume, but greater efficiency. And I'm curious for your perspective as a coach, I imagine maybe in the heat of the moment during a game when you're sitting behind the bench, how you're processing it compared to maybe afterwards you're going through the tape or reflecting on how the game turned out, like how you sort of evaluate that side of things, especially when it potentially goes south, right? Because I think it's great when that pass that you passed up a good look, potentially turns into a high danger goal, you're like, all right, that was the right play, obviously. If it winds up being tipped out of the zone and goes back the other way for a

counter opportunity, maybe you're less pleased with it. But I'm sure, you know, in the back of your mind, you're still thinking it was the right play. It just didn't work out. Like, how do you sort of balance those things within one game and then obviously over the course of a season or any number of years? Yeah, I try to do it in games. If it becomes a pattern and a trend, then I would probably nip it. But most times I can tell in a game if it's one of those nights where when we're trying to find an extra play, it's just not connecting. And that happens from time to time.

It's bad ice or whatever. It's just one of those nights. And now you're sort of looking up and you're looking at our hiding and we're getting, I feel like we're playing well, but nothing is getting to the net. We're not attacking the inside. We're not getting any secondary looks. And I have in between periods that can kind of tell me some of the. the underlying numbers on that.

So usually it's a night-to-night thing of like, hey, guys, it might be one of those nights where we just need to get a few pucks in there and we've got to make sure we've got people driving there. And if you see a play, make a play. But let's make sure that we're being really not selected from a standpoint. Like, we got to attack the net tonight. We got, it might be one of those nights where we have to just grind for our goals. And it might not be a pretty one.

So I think I try to be. And if you say that repetitively, you're in trouble. So this is like very, you know, calculated with it's one of those nights where I think we just need to be willing to attack the net. And that's the one thing that I use that verbiage as well, like shooting it. I'm not a big shoot. Then like attack the net. Because shooting it like I just still find that that puts players in it. Shoot it just no, we, because you might shot pass.

It might be off the end wall. It might be a high tip. It might be you're shooting it off net or you're passing it like attack the net. Attack the net is what we try to use. One thing about the Olympic tournament from an NHL head coach's perspective, of course, has been this condensed schedule, right? Yeah. Over the course of the first half of the year and resuming, you know, in the next week from

from the time we're recording this. From the perspective of the Washington Capitals head coach, right? because, you know, your two leading scorers, as we know, are sort of 30 plus year old guys, ageless wonders, who your team is built around. And I'd imagine, you know, just based on common sense that condensed schedule is a little bit more difficult for a guy who's 35 than it would be for a 23, 24 year old. How have you had to manage that a little bit differently, you know, given the composition of your roster and given some of the uniqueness of this campaign? Yeah. It's been extremely challenging.

And then you couple that with the fact that we've played more games than anybody in the National Hockey League. So a condensed schedule for the Washington Capitals is becoming an even more so because we're sitting at 59 games played. We've tried to listen, like with this year and how condensed the schedule and our January and the travel and all that, we've tried to get creative and try to be very mindful. and make good decisions. So involving our strength and conditioning, involving our athletic trainers and going, okay, where are some days that we can pick?

Where can we give extra rest? Where we're traveling multiple time zones? Where we meet at the plane? Where is where we stay over? And that's really all you can do is try to make very, very calculated decisions where you're gathering as much information as possible. And is practice time limited?

Absolutely. We had like two practices in a month, which sucks. We need that time and that's important to our team. We've got a lot of young players that need those touches and those reps. But it's just a product of the season and the schedule this year. So we've tried to do the best we can, especially with Obie's minutes and John and giving them rest days when we feel like we can make that work. Yeah.

Everything I know about head coaches, but particularly successful in H.L ones, is they really pride themselves on consistency, right? From a process perspective, ultimately you're going to be judged on wins and losses. But I think in terms of doing your job, it's the preparation, playing the right way, and banking on the fact that it eventually will lead to the results you're looking for. And I imagine that's one of the difficulties and complications of this schedule, right? Where especially with these schedule losses or however you want to frame it, where you know, you're playing a bunch of back-to-back stack together or three and four,

five and seven, whatever it may be. I've been talking to Thomas a lot about on the show throughout the year about how my viewings of various teams around the league have yo-yoed for like in further extremes than I can ever remember before where I tune in one game and a team looks phenomenal and they dominate against a good opponent and their stock rises in my mind. And then I tune in and watch them again a week later and it's entirely different. They're struggling. Nothing's hitting. And then I look at their schedule and it's like, oh yeah, you know, they've been on the road for eight straight days and they played five games in that time. I imagine that probably took its toll. You guys have certainly gone through that as well. I think you've played 10 back to backs so far this

year. You have four more left, I believe. Kind of what's the, how do you process that, I guess, in terms of like, especially if things are going south and you're wanting to get it back on track and not allow one or two losses to turn into an extended losing streak or even the opposite if you play really well a couple times and it's going well, acknowledging that you're going to hit that bump eventually just because of the schedule. Like I imagine, and everyone in the league is going through it. It's not necessarily either the capitals.

But when you're in it, I imagine it's like a pretty tricky thing this year to try to navigate. Yeah. And we try like as coaches, you're like, okay, remove excuses, right? Like the schedule, how can that everything is like, okay, we should be. But in reality, exactly what you said. is because some nights will look exactly like we wanted to look like and against a really good team, like the Carolina Hurricanes, we played the other night, and we were phenomenal.

Like Rod after the game, I sometimes like listening to the post game of the opposing coach, and he was like, this is the worst game I've ever been a part of with our team. And I, you know, you take that as a compliment because we did a lot of good things that night. But then you'll go to the next night and you're like, whoa, what? What flips here and you know, you're playing, you don't practice the next day and you're playing again and it's the end of a four and five or whatever it might be. And you're like, cheese, how did it flip like that? What? So I think just trying to be cognizant of those things, of the schedule and understand you're going to have some off nights through this. You're going to have some nights where you don't have your legs or some guys are. really fighting the puck from an execution standpoint and being able to take what you can out of that game, good or bad on a good performance or a poor performance. Okay, what area do we think?

And then we got to move on. And now we've got to crank it back up. And also as a coach, I have to have the appreciation that we're going to get it right back the next game. And it's not like doom or gloom, like, here we go. That was a terrible performance because we can play. just like we did in that Carolina game, just like that. And so that's where the optimism in getting our staff and our players,

hey, we're right back at it. Here's what we're going to take from that poor performance last night. And here's why we're going to look like we did in the Carolina game tonight. Yeah, I got to be honest, when I was framing that question, the visual I had in the back on mind, and it feels like another lifetime ago now because it was all the way back in October, the first month of the season. But I remember tuning into a game of yours.

And I think you had the Minnesota Wild in town. And it was probably one of the more impressive performances I've seen from any team this year where shots were like 45 to 15 and it just felt like you guys were in the offensive zone the entire time teeing off and then I'm like you know what I'm in on the caps this year and then I tune in like literally the next week and you guys had the senators in town and you generated 13 shots and lost 7-1 and then I'm like well do I do I keep that first viewing in the back of my mind or do I get rid of it or do I try to balance both and I imagine over 82 games, it'll even itself out in terms of like you will be who you are from a talent and results

perspective at the end of the day, most likely. But as you're navigating it throughout the season, like those highs and lows must be so so much more trickier, I guess, than like when there is a level of consistency, even if the highs aren't as high, but the lows just aren't the bottom falling out like that. Yeah. And I felt like you caught us at a good time because we had four of our best games in the seat. We played. I think it was Minnesota, who we were, excellent against Seattle, even Vancouver that we lost to. So anyways, early in the year, I felt like we came out and we were very organized. We knew exactly.

And then I felt like kind of the league caught up a little bit and everybody got on the same page with their structure and Minnesota got, because when we saw Minnesota and Seattle for that matter, we were like, oh, geez, those are tough. Now Seattle was on a back to back when we saw them. But they have gotten like, now we saw them again. the next time we went into Minnesota and when we went into Seattle, I'm like, okay, that is not the same team that we saw early in the season. So we've just tried to, again, kind of going back to the previous point of just trying to reset when we needed to take what we do. And there have been some tough meetings where, you know, it got sloppy for two games in a row where it's my job to say,

hey, look, this isn't good enough. and here's this is non-negotiables for our team and our organization. But yeah, it's been no doubt a grind and but been a lot of like now we've got Dubois back. So that he is such a big part. I can't understate that. And I am not an excuse guy. And there's no way I will use that as an out for why we sit where we are. That's on us.

That's on me. But do be coming back and playing that last game against Nashville. He's such a big part of our team. and our forward group. Pivoting off the Dubois, bringing up Dubois sort of pivots, I think, naturally to something I'm really curious to ask you about, because when I think about the Washington Capitals, especially over the last few years, really coinciding with your tenure, you know, one of the things that stands out to me is just the raw amount of pro scouting

wins that your organization has had. And I want to bring up Dubois and I want to bring up another player on your team. in Justin Sordiff as being obviously very different, but also two sides of the same coin, especially in a world where the caps going up and teams aren't forced to make the same number of difficult choices as a result of a spreadsheet, but can focus a little more of what they're seeing on the ice. And in both Sordiff and Dubois's case, one because they were a veteran underperforming and one because they were a young guy who hadn't quite got their shot, your club was able to effectively

bring in a guy before the rest of the league knew they were a guy. And as sort of part of that thought process, it's not enough to just identify that talent and, you know, for your general manager to swing the trade, but they have to be integrated, right? There has to be a plan for that player. And I'm curious to know how that process works for your club, you know, between you and Brian, between your organization in terms of thinking through how to create an environment to make the most out of those sorts of organizational back. Yeah. And so we're so connected with our management. And when Brian was the general manager and hired me,

it was constant daily communication of anything that he felt like could help our team or ideas. And so that's how it was starting to be communication, communication. Okay, what do you think? Do you think it could fit? Here's our needs. So that has been phenomenal. I think it's one of the biggest strengths of this organization and why they've had so much success long before I was here is because there is a connectiveness to management down here to our coaches and making sure that, hey, we're on board with this. Do we think this would help? Yes.

Okay, let's go. And what's your plan for helping this player developer? Where do you see him fitting? And then my opinion on it, okay, that's exactly how I see it. That's how I'm going to phrase it to the agent. This seems like it could work. And doing some homework too. It's my job to not just say, hey, you guys figure it out is I got to watch.

film. I got to find some things out and talking. Yeah, they're very, Duby, all the homework and everything that I found out and watching the film. I just thought it would be an excellent fit. And credit to Mack for bringing him in and pulling the trigger on that. And Duby's been phenomenal. Like he just, it's interesting because I won't get into all the background stuff because it was a clean slate when he got here. But he loves the game. he works his butt off and as a student of the game is his father's a coach coaching the american league for years is over in europe now coaching so he loves to be coached which i love players that want information that love to break it down that love hey can you give me an edge carbs any way off my

face offs off my zone entries and i'm like heck yeah i can let's let's take a look at some of so it just was a was a great fit and so already no different of i didn't know much about him i I watched him in the American League, watched a lot of his shifts in Charlotte and saw sort of the skill set. But credit to our management, Chris, and they were such a big believer in Justin and watched him over the past multiple years playing in the HL. So I was like, hey, I trust you guys. Let's go. You know I'm going to put my heart and soul into sortie and try to help him become the best possible player he can. And he's same thing as Doobie, student of the game, loves it works his butt off, wants to get better.

And so coachable guys like that, I find they just, they go like this because they work their butts off and they care. I'm right there with you in terms of the trust because one of my principles here on the show is if the capital is a choir a player, I'm generally going to be in on it. And I think the past couple years have made that a smart strategy on my part. And the sort of one's a great example because I remember at the time a lot of the public analysis was, oh, that's a pretty steep acquisition cost given, you know, how unproven he has. at this level. We generally don't see trades like that. And obviously it was a bet on the talent. Also, it helps.

And it's, you know, a silver lining, obviously you'd want Pierlucault be available. He was so phenomenal for you guys last year. I'm with you. I watched that last game before the break against the Preds. And it looked like an entirely different team with him in there. But his absence kind of creates opportunity at some point, right? Especially down the middle. And so sort of winds up earning that spot and really has taken off.

since. And you can see that in the ice time where it starts off around 10, 11 minutes of the start of the year. It works its way up into almost the 16, 17 range. The scoring has come along for him to match the underlying process the past month and a half or so. I love watching a play. It does so many smart little things well. And now it's started to be appreciated, I think, league-wide because the goals and points have come that showcase he had, I thought, on Hockeyhead in Canada against the Oilers a couple weeks ago was a very important one for him. But I'm curious for in terms of developing younger players, especially in the NHL, right? Because I think the caps have historically done a really good job using Hershey as a bit of a breeding ground to get

guys reps at the pro level and then work their way up accordingly. It's a bit of a different dynamic doing so on the fly, especially when you're a playoff team. You won the East last year as the number one seed. Like there's a lot of win now expectations and a lot to lose in the short term. So you can't really afford to necessarily take your lumps along the way. But at the same time, I imagine when a guy's already showing you in a smaller role that they're capable, it makes it probably easier to give them a bit of a longer runway and say, all right, let's see what you can do with it. And then we'll adjust afterwards.

Yeah. And you're spot on of the challenge of where we're at as an organization. And we want to win. We want to make the playoffs. We want to be a Stanley Cup contender. But we also are being very smart about understanding, you know, this was a veteran team. when I came here and now is slowly, we're trying to integrate young players

that are going to be the future Washington Capitals that hopefully can help us win another Stanley Cup along the way. And that, it's hard at times because, as you know, in this league, it is relentless. And for young players to play 82 games with the travel, with how hard it is, with the level that you have to get to, the consistency, all of the stuff,

mentally and physically that go into it, it is a challenge. And so Sordy's had his rough nights and I know that he's going to have those. And I know Ryan Leonard's going to have those nights as well when you're learning and developing in the National Hockey League. Like you said, Cole Hudson is going to have those nights in the National Hockey League. And so I just try to balance that, right? I always have to keep that in mind as we expect to win. And they know that.

And I say, hey, listen, you're in a unique situation. You're not in going into San Jose last year on a rebuild where it's like, hey, just take your lumps, no big deal. We expect you to be able to make this play and we expect you to be able to make this read. But I am going to give you opportunity and I know you're going to make mistakes. So stay at it. Don't get down on your stealth. Stay confident.

I'm going to get you right back out there. And so that's where I have to sort of make sure that I'm being really good with my communication and clear with communication of they know that, geez, I got to really be. good with this puck, but also Carbs has my back and knows that, you know, I'm a young player and I'm learning on the fly here in a really difficult league. I'm curious. Have you been surprised this year or maybe surprise is the wrong word to use, but I guess impressed by Ryan Leonard's playmaking ability in particular as a passer because I thought, you know, from the work I did preparing for him as a draft prospect and entering the league, you could certainly see the

traits that the organization valued and the league did in terms of the motor, you know, some of the stuff off the rush that you can do the shot, the irritant factor in terms of using that speed and be playing in your face to draw penalties and he's been one of the best guys in league at doing that this year. I didn't necessarily expect some of the passing though, especially some of like the cross-eye stuff. And I know at one point when your guys power play was struggling, you guys put them on one of the flanks, tried to kind of open up some plays I remember Thomas was talking at the time. There were a couple sequences there, I think during the

California trip before he unfortunately got hurt where he was doing these little bump passes down low off of rebounds to kind of try to unlock the middle of the ice and create a few easier high danger opportunities. And I wasn't necessarily expecting that. Obviously, young players are going to add more tools to their skill set as they go

along and develop, but that's something that I've been taken back, like just what he's capable of as a distributor, especially along with all the other stuff. You know, what he's got. He's got two things that I totally agree. He's got the one-on-one, the skating, all this stuff. But he has, he's got deception. And that, when he comes down that flank or where he's coming outside, he can absolutely like look in this way and he's making that play.

And he also has, he has really underrated vision, I think. So like when we have him on that downhill flank, he can see Ovi in the one-timer spot or Tom Wilson in that bumper. And he's attacking down like he's going to shoot. Then he slips it into the middle. So those traits, when I see those right away, I'm like, okay, he's got good vision. He sees what's going on over on the weak side. He can find, he found, like, I think it was sortie down low, wide open. He didn't end up scoring, but it was like a bullet pass through the, you're like, okay. And the deception to go along with that so he can manipulate defenders and move their stick and their states.

So I agree. I think I didn't really, I didn't evaluate him in college and that and like in the draft and that. so I didn't really know what it looked like, but I know, you know, from what I, my experience with him, he's a good distributor and can see the ice well. Since Demetrius bringing up those passes off rebounds on the power play, I do want to, I do want to just ask you generally as a power play question. Obviously, you worked the power play as an assistant at the NHL level for the Maple Leafs

and had a tremendous amount of success there. And I'm watching this Olympics, right? And while there's a fascinating. assortment of different systems in every other phase of the game. When it comes to the power play, everyone's lining up in a one-three-one. You know, your captain sort of changed the game for that about 15 years ago now, right? It's now completely ubiquitous. And yet, you know, obviously there's a tremendous amount of vacillation in terms of how well

different players, different teams run it. You know, you've used some defenders in non-traditional spots in Jacob Chikrin on the 131. I'm just curious to get your thoughts on sort of that evolution and why, despite everyone running the same thing, does it look so different night to night when we see different teams doing the work? Yeah, I think it is crazy, hey? And then the next step was all the penalty kills now, basically 90% of them, now diamonds,

saying, okay, well, we're going to adjust to these one three ones and take away player here, player here, your three best players usually. And then I start to think about, okay, what's the next phase of this? Like, where's this going? I think the best teams right now that get sort of diamonds into trouble and they morph their one three one into some of these boxing ones is the ones that create those interchanges up top where they now can rotate where your half wall guy now slides up, your top guy slides over, and now you're into kind of the.

spread look, OV moves down, and those rotations become very, very seamless and they know the options off. That's so the hardest part about doing that because all, I shouldn't say all, lots of power play coaches talk about, okay, let's rotate here, let's rotate here. It's not about them being able to do it. It's about knowing the options once you get into that spot. So now we would always roll like if Austin rolls up and Morgan moves over and now, Mitch rolls down.

It's making that. Now, what are our options off that? How seamless can we make that? And that's interesting to me. I'm always watching teams that rotate because I feel like that's where this is going, is not just the stagnant one three one of how power plays are going to try to outfox now, all these diamonds. On the player development side, coming back to that, because I just had sort of one follow-up,

you do end up with sort of different layers, especially when you've got a, robust American League team that's had as much, you know, like playoff success, Calder Cup success as the Hershey Bears have. And obviously you coach there too. So I'm sure you have a, you know, you understand how big a priority that is for the organization. The thing that we do sometimes see, though, is you get those guys that are, you know, not able to go down to play in the American League because of waivers, right? But you still need to carve out a developmental path for them.

surely at the NHL level given sort of why big picture organizational goals how thoughtful do you have to be and how do you sort of balance that evaluation when say you go into training camp next year and you're trying to sort of understand where a guy like hendricks lapierre is at versus a guy like an ilia protis right in terms of the experience that they've had this year and sort of starting at that level set yeah it's honestly that's so it's so challenging and I have absolute input on that, but it is more of a managerial philosophy and how they want to approach it. Because when you think about that, like, it's my job training camp to evaluate, okay, here's what I think. And now it's Chris's job to go like, okay, carbs, I get that you like this player X player why, but here are the ramifications of you. Sure. And so that's where again being very, very collaborative with everything we do. But there is always a plan. So whether Lappi can't go down and his minutes are low and there is absolutely a thoughtfulness

to how we help him get extra touches and how Kenny McCudden is able, our skills coach is able to work with him consistently and how we're able to show him film and how we're able to continue to develop. Lappie is far from developed. And I say that in a positive way, he has so much more room to grow and is hopefully going to become a great NHL player. So we don't lose sight of that as a staff

and as an organization that we're always, even if a player can't necessarily go down and get reps in the HL. I'm not surprised at Thomas included the name Ilya Proto's there because listeners of the PEOCast know that we're big fans of the prodi, as I like to call them. You know, in preparation for today's show, I was looking at one of the Hershey rosters that you had while you were running the team there a handful of years ago.

And I didn't really remember that that coincided with Ilya, with Alexei Proto's coming to North America, I think, like halfway through that year and finishing the year there. And then he played another year and then came up to the NHL. And, you know, he's probably been one of the better success stories from a development perspective within the NHL over the past couple of years. because if you look at, especially for a production perspective, but I think just efficiency as an offensive player, obviously the size has always been there, but now learning how to leverage it in a very functional way and dominating whether it's on the PK

or through various forms at 5-1-5, like what he was two years ago to his leveling up last year and then now even this year, I'm curious for your take on sort of like having a firsthand view almost of that process over the years and then kind of how that's come along for him and what the lessons are to take from that other than like, yeah, young players are going to get better

because I feel like a lot of people were really taken aback by the leap he did take last year. So when he first came in, big kid could skate, good hands, because he had played in the Western League. So he had some idea of the North American game. Yeah, he had so far to go. but you saw the talent.

You saw the tools. And I think there was two things that stick out to me of his progression. And what, not what caught me off guard, but one that was there was a question mark in. And then one of why he's become so successful. Unbelievable worker and professional since day one of Hershey. Like you want to do talk about extra work. You want to talk about work on your skating. You want to talk about the first guy that's.

in the gym doing making sure that he's doing everything he possibly can wanting to watch film dissecting just pro was was that dialed in from day one of him arriving in Hershey so you knew okay he's going to maximize his talent he's going to get the most out of who he is as a player the area i think that his skating no doubt his brain just continued to go like this but the area that I think caught a lot of people off guard and even myself included is his ability to finish and his shot got exponentially better because even early on in Hershey like we didn't think he was going to score, didn't play power play like, you know, he would get a decent amount of chances but, you know, nothing really came of it. And then all of a sudden you saw him beating NHL goal

he's clean on clear sighted shots and you're like, whoa, okay. And now he's finishing on some breakaway short-handed and now he's beaten goalies from distance and now he's scoring in tight with his big frame and I even think that's an area that he's going to continue to get better at is scoring in tight whether that's off deflections or rebounds and getting in and around the net a little bit more because I think his brother actually I actually said it to him this morning I watched the game they played Toronto the Marleys his brother scored a great goal of like young kid in the American League. Usually they're doing the fly-by by the net.

He took contact, like stood in there, was getting cross-checked, and he fought for a loose puck that Miro brought. He scores a goal. I'm like, that was awesome. Your brother, rookie in the H.L. He's fighting to stay at the net, scores a huge goal in Toronto. But I digress. Anyways, yeah, I just, I think his shot is,

and his ability to finish. And the shooting percentage, I know it was what it was, but he's continued to back it up to a certain extent this year. And so I think that's the areas that I would point to. You mentioned the shooting percentage there. I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about this because obviously a lot was made with public analysis last year with your guys team shooting percentage and leading the league in that. And, you know, trying to figure out whether it was stuff you guys were doing.

I think there certainly was an element like we talked a lot at the time about some of the intricate passing plays you'd have off the rush or especially, like focusing what we talked about earlier with like high danger opportunities and not necessarily spamming low percentage shots trying to prioritize stuff in the interior and you have the personnel upfront in particular to do that. Did you have any conversations or any thought about that between seasons and the off season in terms of like we can still try to do that yet regardless of what we do from a coaching and execution and player perspective. Historically we know that we're probably not going to lead the league and shooting percentage again next year.

And then what that's going to look like and what our adjustments going to be or how we're going to sort of absorb that and not allow it to become a thing that that hangs like a dark cloud over our season essentially. Not that that's happened this season, but there has been a bit of a regression. And you're certainly scoring a lot at 5-1-5, but just kind of like how you weigh all those things, absorbing that information, and then using it in a practical manner. Yeah. And I was well aware of it last year and was always, I would never bring.

bring it up with the players during, during last year. But with our staff, I would continue to push us to go, hey, you know, we're, yeah, we scored four last night, but we got to continue to look at, are we creating enough high danger? Are we creating? I know we're finishing. This is great. It's awesome.

Everybody's feeling good. But we got to stay on top of, are we creating enough high danger opportunities per night? Because that's what I pay attention to, because I totally agree, it's going to go like this. Our shooting percentage, one year will be here. now it's regressed here. But is our expected goals, maw, whatever you want to use, scoring chances for, is that staying consistent per 60 night to night?

And that's what I try to focus on. And this year, I'll be honest with it, it's been challenging because so many guys had great years and finished at such a high level. It's only natural. I'd say this to some of the guys. Like, it's only natural for you to come in this year and go like, all right, carbs, I got you. but I know if I get an opportunity,

I'm going to shoot it in the back of the net. Like I feel really confident and really good. So they should. They had massive years, but that's where I sort of try to remember, hey, here's why you were successful. Here's the opportunities that we need to continue to create as a team and you do individually.

And I think it's hit us a little bit this year. There has been a regression and we've had to fight for more offensively some nights. And I think that's kind of what I pay attention to is, are we creating enough high danger per night and individually with each guy? Okay, here's the final one, Spencer. They're going to let you go because you've been very generous with your time. I'm sure you've got to get back in the lab and get back to work. As a coach, what do you feel like is things, especially in game that you can control the most?

I imagine, you know, people would say how you allot ice time and usage or, you know, deployment. and you guys have over the past couple years been, as everyone knows, one of the more extreme teams in terms of trying to get Ovechkin out for offensive zone draws and then utilizing Dowd and De Hame to soak up a lot of the defensive zone draws and then kind of fitting everyone else in in between. Is there anything else other than maybe like, I guess communication or just like whatever your process is and you're talking about preaching with your staff about trying to generate these high danger chances and then going about working on that with the players in game.

What do you feel like you can really kind of control? I imagine at times it could be a bit frustrating because you're going to be judged based on the wins and losses, but ultimately you can do your job and prepare. And if the players don't execute or if you get a bad balance, the puck doesn't go in, you don't get a save, it's going to be your fault that you guys lost. Yeah. Like what do you feel like you can control in game as a coach and has your process on that changed at all now that you've been doing this with the caps for this is the third season now?

So there's two areas that I look at. on bench in game and I've I've the matchup part is important and so I'll pay attention to that who I need to try to get out against from it from an it's an advantage for us who I need to stay away from that potentially could hurt us because the numbers say that this line is operated at a high clip and if this matchup looks like this it's not going to be good for us I will that's my job to make sure that I'm fitting those matchups in I also think think one of the things that I challenge myself to do is because I think a lot of times it works out is is monitoring individual guys and how they are that night because more times than not,

I know we talk as coaches and as a player, you have a bad period, bad second period. And you're like, you can get out of this. You can get out of this. And you absolutely can. And I'm saying the same thing. I'm no different. But odds are it's not your night. Odds are it's not your night. And it's my job to identify that and move someone else or move you away from potentially a really good line to other guys that are really going and get someone else there that could potentially get us a five-on-five goal or earn us a power player control a few shifts that tilt the ice. Like that's important from a coaching. And I don't look at that as a negative thing.

Sometimes Leno, I would move earlier this year. I'd move him off a line. If he's having a tough night and I'd talk to him the next day and go, just a tough night. you're going right back on that line tomorrow. No big deal. But that's our job as head coaches to identify those scenarios where we feel like if you make one subtle change inside of your lineup, but it's not every night,

but that's our job. And I take that very seriously. The other thing is in between periods. I think that's where I can really challenge our staff to find. Give me two things. What two areas of our structure could we do a better job of? And I can deliver to the players, whether it's getting through the neutral zone clean

and generating some controlled entries or it's exiting our zone and not just punt it, whatever it might be, like give me two things and let me look at the film real quick. And then so I can communicate that. And there's, I mean, does it always effectively work? No, but I think a lot of times you draw the guy's eyes to that and go, and usually, usually your zone entries get better. Usually you have two or three more that next period. you brought it up and because you showed them a way that you could get a puck to middle ice

and attack. So those are the two things that I really pay attention to do as a head coach of trying to help on any given night matchup-wise and in-game adjustment. Awesome. Well, Spencer, this was awesome. I'm glad we finally got to do this. Normally when we sign off on these shows, I let the guests plug something. It's generally a media member who wants us to check out their podcast or their article. I don't know. Do you have anything you want to plug? Do you want people to tune in on February 25th to to Capp's Flyers. Anything else you want to plug? Oh, man, that's a great. I've never been asked that. I'm like, I don't know, Monumental Sports, the monumental sports app, and that's Ted's media company. It has all of our media

stuff on at Monumental Sports is the best. Awesome. Well, you're the best, Spencer. Thank you for coming on. This was such a blast. And I'm sure the listeners enjoyed it too. Looking forward to having you on the show again, you know, based on today's chat, you just shot all the way up my wish list for this summer's summer series as the coaching representative we're going to have on the docket. All right, Tom, we've got to get out of here. Everyone go check out Thomas's work at the athletic, listen to Canucks Talk on the Sports Sports Night Radio Network in terms of my plugs. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen.

If you enjoyed today's conversation with Spencer Carberry, subscribe to the PDOCAST Patreon for extra content. We've had so much new stuff up there over the past two. weeks breaking down everything at the Olympics going to continue using the newsletter and the extra shows to cover various things that we get closer and closer to the trade deadline and then of course playoff season as well and that's all from us for today now that the NHL schedule is up and running this week we've got games again on wednesday we're going to get back in the regular swing of things covering it all the way we always do so check back in here soon for plenty more thank you

for listening to the Hockey PEOCast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.