The Hockey PDOcast - Stanley Cup Final Tactics and Adjustments

Episode Date: June 7, 2023

Jack Han joins Dimitri to talk about the first two games of the Stanley Cup Final, the tactics the Golden Knights have used to jump out to a 2-0 lead, and what adjustments the Panthers can make to get back into the series.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey-PedioCast. My name is Dimitri Filippovich and joining me is my good buddy, Jack Khan, Jack, what's going on, man? We're back. This is the final stretch right here. We are. And this is, you know, we've been on quite a run this postseason, you and I. I believe we've gotten together once for every single round, right? We previewed round one at the start of the playoffs in round two we did some adjustments talk after the first couple of games of those series we previewed the conference finals and now we're back to talk about the Stanley Cup final after two games and I thought it was a good time for us in particular to reconvene because you know we've got

this extra day off between games two and three now the setting of the series is shifting to south florida from Vegas for games three and four and it provides us an opportunity to kind of reflect on how Vegas was able to go up to nothing and take care of business in the first two games at home and then kind of like reevaluate maybe what Florida can do the rest of the way to get back into the series, to counterpunch and to and to sort of make these games look a bit more like maybe what we were expecting heading in. Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously the scores have been pretty lopsided, but it's not like Florida is getting run out the building here in terms of, you know,

creating offense or certainly Vegas is getting to the middle way better than any other team that's played Florida so far. But in terms of overall volume, it's still close. And maybe with a few balances, maybe with, you know, one goalie getting hot, one goalie getting cold. Like, this is still a series. So, like, I see a lot of discourse online about, like, you know, what's going to happen if Jack Michael wins a cup before Connor McDavid. But it would be correct to say that this series is not over yet.

No, it's not. certainly it's been two games and i think florida has shown um that they they're certainly like competitive right and and they're able to to kind of punch back themselves i i did think you know game one was very close and i thought florida had a really legitimate chance to to win it heading into that third period because they were right there with them through the first 40 i thought for the that third period and then for the start of game two Vegas really kind of tightened the screws and essentially eliminated a lot of the noise out of their game and just basically like refined it all into what makes them so good. So hopefully we're going to be able to kind of tap into that a little bit here.

And I thought that the most logical way for us to go about this was to start in Vegas's defensive zone and then kind of work our way up with the ice in terms of what we're seeing and kind of what's happening tactically in this series, right? Because you mentioned there kind of with a passing comment about how Vegas has been able to get into the middle of the ice better than any of Florida's opponents in the first three rounds. And that's certainly true, but that's a very interesting topic of discussion for me, right? Because I think every team acknowledges with the way the game is played in 2023, that that's imperative, right? And I think even all these teams that take more of a quantity

over quality approach and maybe frustratingly so at times, just spam bad, low percentage shots, I think they ideally, like their coaches know that they want to get into those more prime real estate areas, right? Maybe they just don't either have the personnel or the tactics to get there, but I don't think anyone thinks that that is the right way to play hockey in today's game. But what's separated Vegas is their ability to actually do so, right? So let's start in the defensive zone because a lot has been made of how good Aden Hill has been this postseason. He's got a 939 save percentage in this series. He's got a 937 say percentage during this playoff run. And he's certainly been good, right? He's made some highlight real saves. I thought in game six against

Edmonton in round two. He was actually very, very good on the road and help them seal that series, makes that paddle save in game one against Nick Cousins. He's done everything they've asked of him. I think the thing that's important to note, though, is it doesn't take anything away from his accomplishments. It's that what Vegas is asking of him is very limited, right? And I think that's a big reason why he's been able to be as successful as he has

this postseason. Yeah. So for me, like whenever we start, talking about parts of the ice like i like to start with personnel so um looking at uh natural statric i'm just looking at time on ice here but it looks like Vegas basically has not had you know any significant injuries on the back end right like if you like their time on ice leader at five on five is actually nick hag and then you go down martinez white cloud petrangelo teeter or mcnab like they've all played either 18 or 19 games so far so not so

none of them have, not to say that they're not a little banged up. I think most players are at this time of year, but, you know, they haven't gotten to a situation where, you know, D men are dropping like flies. And this is a D-Cord that's been together for, what, two or three seasons now. So, you know, a lot of their D-Zone, you know, their weeds and their understanding is predicated upon like the players know each other. They're relatively healthy, so they're going to be able to make that play. Well, to just add on to that for further context, I believe that Shea Theodore missed the game in round one against Winnipeg.

And then Alex Petrangelo obviously got suspended for the one game for the overhand chop on the Andrei Saddle in round two. But otherwise, they've been healthy, right? So Ben Hutton kind of filled in in those two spots. But for the most part, it's been the regular cast of characters. And even, you know, Hagen and White Cloud, who have deservedly so gotten a lot of shine in this series, right? They're the two guys who are leading the team in 5-15 usage, not over the postseason, but in this series in particular, they're getting the Matthew Kachuk head-to-head match-up minutes in these first two games with the benefit of last change on home ice.

Those two guys even have that rapport going back to the H.L. Where they played together as well, right, which Jesse Granger has pointed out on the show and previously. So in terms of that, that sort of connectivity or continuity between deep pairs, that extends even further beyond just like how long they played in the NHL together. Yeah, and then even if you look up front, like obviously Jack Eichol hasn't been here for all that long and he hasn't played all that many games. But aside from, you know, Eichol and Barbashev as a deadline ad and, you know, Phil Castle was not even playing. But like this has been the same team since maybe what year two of the franchise pretty much.

Well, they made changes here and there are certainly, but a lot of the core members for all the talk about how much, you know, how much they've been willing to change and how many movies. moves they've made. There is that continuity there. The big change I would say, though, is the coach, right? Because the way they're playing has fundamentally changed. Under Pete DeBore, they're playing a much more aggressive sort of puck pursuit style on the defensive zone where they were pressuring a ton of the point and really just not trying to give you any space because they were trying to win the quantity battle

as opposed to a quality battle of shots. Bruce Cassidy comes in. They're playing this style. Now you made note on the show previously about how they specifically don't really chase behind the net and they don't really follow you back there. Part of that is because they pack the paint in front of their own goalie so well

and they basically just eliminate anything you want to get from the middle of the ice. And so you look at where the shots have been coming from Florida, even in these two games, something they've done so well this postseason is winning a lot of these battles in front of the, opposing goalie and getting rebounds, getting tips kind of funneling their way into there, they've had no such success doing so in this series.

And I think that is notable to me because Vegas's strategy or strength of how they want to attack you defensively has clearly won the battle through these first two games against Florida's own strength offensively heading in. Yeah. And at the start of the year, I was studying what Vegas is doing. And it strikes me as Bruce Kempark. Cassidy's Bruins, but in the Western Conference. Like really similar idea.

They're looking to take away the middle when you're entering the zone. They're looking to take away the slot once you're cycling and playing with the puck in their zone. They want you to string two or three or four plays together before getting to a good area because chances are they're going to be able to disrupt. And then in the case of this Vegas team, offensively, they actually looked to me quite a lot like the team that went to the cup final. their very first year where they're just looking to dominate you with speed on the strong side

and, you know, chipping pucks by you, uh, kind of these short support passes and then beating it with speed in transition. So you have a fairly passive defense, but then as soon as you make a mistake, they're just poking this puck right past or pinching the fenceman and, and then, then they're off to the races. So, um, I mean, it, it works right now, right? It just works. Well, let's not, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Let's stick to, let's stay with the defensive zone, Jack.

Let's, let's, let's finish off here. And then we're going to move up and we're going to talk about the fun stuff offensively. Okay. So here's a few stats for you. So this postseason, they've played 19 games, right, through the first two games of the Stanley Cup final. That's nearly a thousand minutes at five-on-five. They've given up 26, five-on-five goals in those 19 minutes against. That's for those keeping score at home, like less than 1.7 goals against per hour,

which is just comical for a team, especially given the quality of opposition you're going up against, right? They're played Winnipeg. Then they play Edmonton. They play Dallas. They play Florida now. They're holding them to essentially nothing. They've held Florida out to three, five-on-five goals in these first two games, two of which came in the third period of game two's blowout.

And the point I was making on Aden Hill here, which isn't meant to detract from them at all, but it actually, I think, is a good takeaway, right? Often we talk about what, like, teams that aren't playing right now, they should be watching this series and kind of seeing like, all right, what's working, what is, and what can we sort of integrate into our situation, what is there to learn from the success these teams have had. One thing from Vegas is they finished this regular season seventh in the league and say percentage.

They lost Robin Leonard in the summer, right? And so they use this kind of rotating cast of five goalies, goalies you wouldn't expect to be really good. And yet there's still seventh the league in state percentage. Now you look at Aiden Hill, he's having this success. and they're going into next year with only Logan Thompson having an NHL contract out of all their goalies right now. And I think we'll see what happens with Aiden Hill and whether they retain him because of the success he's had or if you just let him move on because of cap concerns.

But for whatever happens, I have confidence that if they keep playing this way, they can essentially plug and play the goalie. And that's an immense luxury because we often talk about how volatile the position is, how unpredictable the performance is at it. And if your defensive system is very predictably stingy this way, then you don't really need to pay significant assets for a goalie. And that's a huge advantage for any organization. Yeah. And, and, you know, like the trend of large goalies, it hasn't gone away. Like, I'm looking up elite prospect, but in Hills list at 6.6. I've heard he's more like 6.5.

But either way, like basically what the plan is now for a lot of teams, they're looking to get a big goalie who, who's going to get squared to the puck and then play a stingy defensive system and it just hopes that the goalie gets hit by the puck every single time well and that works pretty well when you're giving up shots from very predictable areas like on the edges of the offensive zone too right it's like a big body in that can can all of a sudden can absorb a lot of those i think yeah and like i don't know forever going back to kind of that's five foot 11 athletic goalie who's like really fun to watch like a, maybe like a UC Saros type or a Yarra Halak in his prime. Like, I don't know if we're going back to that.

Like if you look at, let's say, soccer goalies, as soon as the team gets off the bus, you know exactly who the keepers are. And I think, you know, in hockey, we've been there for a little while in the NHL. And I think it's like here to stay seemingly. Yeah, we'll see. You know, I'd add Devon Levi in that as well. Obviously, he hasn't had the NHL track record to date. but I think especially with like the added prevalence of like athleticism and movement,

we often think about that for skaters, but I think it applies for goalies as well. Now I think just being a massive individual in that increases your floor in terms of like you can be pretty competent in the right system just because you're taking up more of the net. But yeah, no, it's an interesting to think about the other thing that I wanted to note here was, you know, often we sort of like shutter at shot blocking stats, right? because they're generally a sign that if you're blocking too many shots,

you don't have the puck. That's a bad thing. Yada, yada, yada. In these two games, shot blocks are 36 to 22 for Vegas. And in particular, what I noticed at the start of game two was I think it must be very frustrating for a team like Florida where even when you are able to break through some of that

defensive zone and actually find yourself in a good area on the ice and the offensive zone, the puck comes to you. and then all of a sudden someone there is there to either, you know, block it and prevent it entirely from making it onto the internet or using a kind of a stick to either brush you or disrupt your shot, which essentially neutralizes the high quality nature of it as well, right? So that's something I've struggled with in tracking these games because I'm keeping track of all the scoring chances and who's taking them and where they're coming from and how they're being created for a big project I'm going to do after the postseason.

And in these games, you have to count them as high danger chance or scoring chances because in theory, a player got a shot off from a dangerous area on the ice. But in reality, it wasn't on the scale of, you know, scoring chance, the high danger chance. It wasn't that dangerous because they weren't actually able to get a clean, good look off. And it feels like that's happening a lot in these games as well. And that's a credit to the way Vegas is defending and how tight up against everyone they are in those areas. So one, I think one useful practice that folks who track shot they can use is they can look at how many defenders are physically in the zone. Because the way that Vegas defends off the rush is that they're not really looking to deny the blue line or to force a turnover. They're just looking to get five bodies back inside the blue.

So we can kind of take it for granted that let's say, you know, if there's only one or two defenders in the zone, it's probably off the rush. Well, in fact, it's definitely off the rush because otherwise it will make no sense. But then once you get three or four or five bodies in the zone, you can sort of discount a little bit the quality of the shot because usually that shot is going to be contested. Yeah. And we've talked a lot about how, you know, contesting shots is probably one of the big, big uncharted territories, I guess, right now for us in terms of quantifying shockwaters. or like identifying good defensive systems, right? Like teams like the hurricanes and I would even add like the Leafs throughout the regular season are teams that make a habit of decreasing the amount of time

you have to actually release these shots. I know that in the NBA like proximity of the closest defender or how much space you had to release your shot is something that is tracked and kind of accounted for in defensive metrics. And that's something that as you watch it intuitively makes sense, but it's something that we still haven't properly quantified yet. Is there anything else on the way Vegas defends? I guess a lot of this conversation kind of ties in together, right? Because a lot of what we're going to talk about here moving forward is the neutral zone

and how the way they play is affecting that as well. But I guess just along the theme of, you know, we're focusing on what Vegas has done well so far. I also want to provide a bit of a template for what Florida could conceivably do in game three and beyond, I guess, just executing better or hoping a few and more. or these shots go in, is there something you've seen or something you think would work well against this Vegas defensive zone system that could give Florida a bit of a better chance of actually creating meaningful scoring chances? So, but before we get into that, I just kind of want to, want to preface everything that

that we're talking about here, which is, you know, it's not like Vegas changed the way that they're playing throughout the playoffs. And then all of a sudden, it's like they found the right recipe. It's not that. it's they've been building up this game plan from you know since probably game one of training camp like if you go on hockey viz and you look at the heat map of what Vegas has allowed at five on five in terms of shots it's exactly what we're talking about they're allowing you know a fair bit from along the boards or from the point or from these like kind of you know great sea areas but then anything

in front of the net and in front of the low slot like there's basically it's a big pull of blue which means that they're not, you know, giving up very much. Yeah. And I was talking with, um, uh, someone who coaches at the NCAA level yesterday. And we're chatting about, you know, style of play and essentially how teams learn from their opponents and from other teams that they're studying. And what that coach told me is that like, what he finds is that a lot of coaches are very piecemeal.

So it's like, you know, they'll watch Vegas DZone today and they're going to. to look to, you know, creates a couple drills or show some video and try to implement it tomorrow because it works for Vegas. But what that actually does is it makes you very inconsistent because you're always chasing instead of just, you know, taking six to nine month and building up something and then making it yours. And then it's super hard to steal because when you steal it, you don't necessarily have that time to really digest it and really kind of meld it with your roster. So if you look at Vegas,

I think it's, obviously it's a good example of what works in the playoffs, but also it's a good example of like, you know, you have the whole season. So you've got to use the whole season. And once, you know,

crunch time rolls around, you're dancing with whoever you brought, right? No, I mean, I would argue that they've been working on this since the day they, since the day they hired Bruce Cassidy. But I guess my question for you is, and you know,

you send me a couple of these clips. Kyle McLennan at McLennon 28 posts really good sort of little video breakdowns throughout this post season of tendencies, teams are doing kind of habits and why they're being successful. And that's great. I think the way Vegas is playing right now

and not just because of the fact that they're up to in the Stanley Cup final, every single area of the ice, I would argue, you could clip what they're doing and then use it as a teaching tool of how teams should be playing. I guess my question for you, though,

is how much of that is the system and the tactic and sort of this foundation that they've been building for nine months or whatever now and how much of it is also driven by the fact that they have a very unique personnel as well, both in terms of depth, but also in terms of player styles and skill sets to allow that to happen because they have fundamentally changed the way they play at both ends of the ice this season under Bruce Cassidy and are getting the results for it, but also it's not like they were starting with, you know, this rag tag cast of players that were, they were just like thrown away or found on the scrap keep. Like this is a lot of very, very high end players as well that are making the most of the

system. Yeah. And I think like, like are we to the part where we talk about what the Panthers can do or we're not. Yeah, no. I'm, I'm very interested because I personally don't have very many answers beyond executing better and hoping the puck bounces your way. But it's a problem that I've been thinking about all post-season in terms of how to

break through the way Vegas plays in their own zone. Yeah. So to do that, I think we can roll back to around 2021 when Vegas had a ton of trouble defending off the rush, especially Alex Petrangelo. So there was a period of time when his on-ice metrics really. cratered. And that was because as a player who wasn't an elite skater to begin with, he's also undergoing some aging. But he started really struggling, defending one-on-one. And he was being challenged a lot in those situations because Vegas was up by Isolat and they were creating a lot in the

offensive zone. And then whenever they turned to puck over, they were kind of vulnerable to these counterattacks. And what Cassidy, I think, did by implementing this defensive system is now you'll very rarely see Vegas's defenders defending speed one-on-one. They're, you know, it's either both defensemen or both defensemen of forward or two defensemen, two forwards, packing the middle of the ice and daring Florida to either force a play into the middle or to dump the puck in. So again, like, this is kind of not really a straightforward suggestion, but, you know, what can Florida do to create more one-on-ones? Like, I really like Florida's chances if we can get Matthew Kachuk isolated one-on-one against the Patrangelo or Martinez, or even at Shea Theodore, because Shea Theodore is a great skater, but defensively, he doesn't always make the right reads or, you know, turn the right way. So, you know, so far Florida has been going one on four, two on four, maybe three on four,

but how can we break this down into, you know, these small one-on-ones and maybe that's the way? Well, I specifically remember the stretch of games you're referencing there with Petrangelo, right? I believe it was the start, like the first 15 games or so of the 21, 22 season. and the issue is at the time, though, they had a ton of injuries up front in particular, I believe, right? And so that was a period of time where it felt like not only was he being isolated defensively, but he was having to absorb such a massive offensive workload in terms of like inching low in the offensive zone,

accounting for a massive part of their shot distribution. And so I think it was just stretching him way too thin. And that was like the defensive results were sort of a big, byproduct of that. This is an entirely different playing environment for a guy like him. And the other point that I would make on sort of what Florida needs to do there is, I agree with you how you accomplish that is a much different question to answer, though, because in round two, I believe the rush goals were seven to five for Vegas against

Edmonton in round three against Dallas, who was a really good rush team. it was nine to three for Vegas. And so we talk a lot about all the zones, they've been able to dominate the neutral zone themselves, even if it is a bit more of a passive system there. And so for Florida to find a way to just consistently attack off the rush, sounds great, and they've had success doing so in the past as a team.

But this is just a different animal for them to try to conquer in that regard, because other teams have tried to and they've failed, right? So I don't know how they actually accomplish getting into those one-on-ones because other teams have tried and failed. Yeah, well, that's why we're not on the bench for game three. I'm sure Paul Mareis is having beers right now

with his assistant coaches and they're asking these same questions. All right, well, you want to move into, it feels like we already have kind of transitioned into the neutral zone in this conversation, right? Do you want to like fully move into there now and both talk about, how the success Vegas has had in transitioning the puck against Florida's vaunted

for a check and also, you know, defensively off the puck as well because it feels like when things have gone well for them in these first two games in that third period of game one and then the start of game two, they've really, as I said, tightened the screws there and dominated there and it's been it's been pretty tricky for Florida to try to navigate and this is the first time this postseason I can remember them struggling to this degree in that area of the ice. Yeah, so it's got to be a fast and seamless transition. And that's what just like Vegas.

Just like Vegas. And so I, I posted a video about this on my newsletter a couple of days ago, but I'm really sensing kind of a shift in mentality because I remember three or four years ago when I was still with the Toronto organization, the big sort of, I wouldn't say, fad, but the thing that we were really focused on is using the width of the ice, finding this change of side passes, getting off the wall, you know, creating these lateral passing, you know, triangles. And Vegas is not doing that at all. And if you look at soccer, like, obviously, Pep Gordiola has had a ton of success with Barcelona and then, you know, in the German

league and now in the premiership. But, you know, his is not the only way to play. We see other teams succeeding with a high press. So like Yergen Klopp, we see other teams succeeding with what they call antipositional principles. So what positional play is is the pep guardiola school of stretching the pitch, having players spaced out so that you can create these passing triangles. And you know, you're really looking to use the entire width of the surface. whereas anti-positional principles is more about getting the player, getting the ball into her best player's hands and letting them kind of overload small areas and play more vertically,

which is exactly what Vegas is doing. Now, they got some players who are really good off the rush. And the thing that's the most underrated about them is it looks like it's a simple way of playing and it looks like at times an easy way of playing because they're just, you know, bumping this puck up the ice and racing after it. but it's actually extremely difficult to execute and turn it into rush chances because you need players who are like NFL wide receivers who are comfortable

receiving the past as it's coming from behind them. Right. Like the toughest thing in a contact sport is you're running in one direction, but then you have to look in the opposite direction, catch a ball or puck, and then avoid getting hit. So, you know, like I can anticipate this fall. whether it's in minor hockey, whether it's in juniors, whether it's in other NHL training camps,

like coaches are going to have their players stretch out the ice vertically and play like Vegas do, but it's probably not going to work for them because their players actually, they don't have that anticipation and that skill to not only scan the ice, but also catch the puck cleanly once they get it. And I think that's kind of Vegas's secret sauce,

and they have three, probably three and a half lines that can do it at a really high level. And that's, it's hard to replicate. It is. What I find interesting, though, is like,

you know, in the East Final, when we preview that, I thought something that would really work against Florida's forecheck would be actually Carolina's style with a lot of those sort of, you know, high flips into the neutral zone and then chase after the puck and try to retrieve it that way to at least get it out of the zone and prevent some of those costly

turnovers that Florida was opportunistically, turning into scoring chances right away, right? And Carolina did have success in that series doing so. Unfortunately, they weren't able to build off of that in actually getting high danger scoring chances off of it because they didn't have the skill level or system to do so. But they at least got the puck there and then were able to start moving downhill.

In previewing this series, I was trying to think about this and how it would play out. And I was a little bit worried about that from Vegas' perspective because while they do move the puck that way in terms of stretching the ice out, it's in a bit more of a controlled manner, right? Like sometimes they throw it into space and allow their speedier forwards to chase after it and then skate into it and they do so really well. But they don't really generally like to just kind of aimlessly throw the puck into the neutral zone

and then just sort of give away possession. They like to do it in a much more controlled manner. And they've still been able to accomplish that in this series with very little resistance. Like it feels like they've, aside from a few isolated shifts, have kind of cleanly and methodically picked apart Florida's forecheck in a way that no one else has been able to do so far this postseason. And that has been one of the more surprising things for me in the series. But maybe it shouldn't have because Vegas, as you mentioned, has been a very successful rush team playing this way for a long time now. Well, to go back to Carolina for a half

second, like I wonder if the outcome would have been different if they had Svetnikov and Pat Schroetti in the line. Well, certainly not helped, yeah. Yeah. So like that's the thing with Carolina is that I think overall they had the game plan to be successful, except they just didn't have that top end finishing talent that they would have needed to make one or two of those plays per game happen. Right. Just manufacture something out of nothing, whereas Vegas certainly has that. They do. Okay, let's take a break here, actually. And then when we come back, we'll keep talking about the transition game and what Vegas is doing well there. You're listening to the Hockey, PEOCat streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.

Catch up on what happened in Vancouver Sports with Halford and Brough in the morning. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're back here in the Hockey PDOCast talking about the tactics behind the first two games of the Stanley Cup final with Jack Han Jack. So before we went to break, we were talking about Vegas's transition attack and how they've been able to work around Florida's Forecheck. I don't know if it was the first shift of game two, but it was the first shift, I believe, where that Stone, Stephen, in line was out and that was a great example of what Vegas has been able to do to dominate this matchup so far and it was a very harmless looking play I did think that the sports and broadcast did a really good job of you know in the in the whistle that followed um highlighting

it and kind of showing why it was important and it was like one of the Vegas defenders I believe just rimmed a puck around the wall right and mark stone standing there and a Florida Fender starts bearing down on him the way they have aggressively all postseason. And Stone makes this little touch into the middle of the ice that allows Chandler-Stevenson to just cleanly skate into it and not even break his stride. And out of nothing, out of a potential turnover that might have resulted previously, Stevenson's able to not only get the puck up the ice, but get a rush shot off himself, which at least tests Bobrovsky and then gets them on offensive zone draw.

And that, to me, was a great encapsulation of what they're doing. And that's part of, I guess, the point of you were making earlier of like a lot of these are teaching tools for people and teams and coaches at lower levels will probably show this to their players. Unfortunately, Mark Stone is one of the best players in the world that doing that and Chandler Stevenson similarly in terms of his end of the bargain. And so unless you have those players, you can show them all the clips you want. But unless they're capable of actually executing that, it's going to probably look differently for you than it does for Vegas. Yeah. And going back to what I was talking about in terms of that soccer analogy, right? In soccer, a lot of kind of the positional play idea is if you have, let's say, the puck

on the right-hand side, you're looking to spread out your people all the way across the pitch, right so that as soon as you get the ball you're able to change sides or able to find space in the middle kind of one of the big tenets of this way of playing is you don't want your players too close to each up because they're just going to end up getting in each other's way and stepping on each other's feet right and in the NHL like i think the best team at doing that this year was new jersey they were able to really spread the ice they created a lot of speed they they were very creative and how they move the puck. And then against Carolina, they got into turnover trouble and they lost that way because

what happens when you stretch your people out is obviously there's a longer distance between them and more things can go wrong if we're moving the puck from one player to another. So what Vegas is doing now, it's the opposite is instead of spreading people out across the rink, they're just looking to outman you in a small area from that center line in. So if Mark Stone is on the wall, then Chandler Stevenson is on the dot lane, and then the third player on that line is going to be somewhere in the middle, but definitely on the same side of the ice. And that's what makes it really difficult for Florida,

because basically now Mark Stone only has to stop the puck and move it a really short distance. It's not even really a pass. It's just sort of a touch. A chip. Yeah, a touch or chip or a bump. And then because Stevenson knows that there's essentially nobody with a change. to intercept that puck, he can really build speed and really play freely and expect to skate onto the puck.

He's not in the middle of the ice, hoping that the puck somehow gets them. There's a lot less hesitation. And then for that third player, he knows that if anything goes wrong on Stevenson, he's right away there to pressure and to take away a counterattack. He's not on the other side of the rank and he doesn't have to haul ass to try to get back in defensive positioning. All he has to do is stop and get in the way. So, yeah, like that's what Vegas does in a nutshell is they, they've kind of taken now an offensive convention, which is use the whole ice if you have it.

They've taken that and put it on its head, which is like they're willingly giving up one side of the ice, the weak side. And then they're concentrating their firepower, so to speak, into a smaller area so that they can make that play in a safer way. Yeah. Well, they've been having a lot of success with that strong side exit. winning the numbers matchup as you as you as you as you kind of diagram there and then you know guys like stevenson and ikel in particular have been such a nightmare for florida once they do get that puck in really kind of stretching them out and and forcing them into difficult positions with their foot speed and you know it's interesting to watch how it plays out because they come

up there they get that little touch off the wall and then they're looking to attack get into the middle right and attack with that sort of like diagonal entry that you've diagramed in your hockey tactics book. And that's also that same route is what Matthew Kachukh was banking on and sitting on when he laid out Jack Iko with that open ice hit. I think that wound up being much more dangerous looking than it should have been just because Iko tow picked and kind of went flying face first into it. It wasn't really able to protect himself as cleanly. But it was a very, it's not accidental that that was there. there for the taking for for kachuk to step into that because that's like a very that's like a carbon copy of a play that Vegas has been executing to perfection all post season all postseason

and then in these first two games right and so um i don't know i guess what can the natural follow up question that is what can florida do to try to slow that down because the issue for them is twofold right not only is Vegas able to flip the ice and be dangerous offensively themselves but in doing so, they've also kind of neutralized one of Florida's biggest offensive weapons of their own, which is how many goals they were scoring off of these immediate forecheck turnovers, particularly at the start of the postseason. That's not really been an issue at all in the series. And if they're not able to create a couple of easier goals that way or at least scoring chances to keep the puck in the offensive zone,

it's going to be very tough for them to generate meaningful offense elsewhere, right? And so they have to figure that out, not only to stop, up Vegas, but also fuel their own offense. So before I give you that answer, let's talk about Eichol for like 10 seconds here. So, you know, I saw the hit. It looked really bad, really relieved to see him come back into the, come back to the game a while later. But could you imagine what would have happened if he would have gotten the spinal fusion instead

of the disreplacement? Like this is the kind of thing where like you get hit right there and then your, your fusion surgery, like either you're seriously injured or whatever hardware gets puts in there, gets blown up. Like this is why he made a stand medically. And I think, you know, obviously we're seeing play at a super high level. I'm not a doctor, but this is the kind of scenario when, you know, that really justifies the player's insistence on, you know, what the procedure had to be.

Yeah. I mean, I had that the medical discussion is above our pay grade. I will say I was worried for him because I can't remember too many times seeing a player get up and react the way that he did in like sheer panic. And I thought for sure that he had like broken a collarbone or something based on his reaction. So the fact that he was able to come back and in play is obviously, you know, a relief and great to see. And then the moment when he sets up the Marshalls Sogoal in the third period as well. I mean, all of it was very cool. So all right, let's let's get into then.

My question. Stop stalling, Jack. I can see you're trying to deflect and you're trying to kick the can down the road as opposed to answering all the tough questions here. I'm buying time, but I do have an answer. And the thing that I think if I were coaching the Florida Panthers, the thing that would be keeping me up at night these days is do I fall back with the forecheck? Do I tar D's to stop pinching? Do I tar forwards to maybe wait a little bit further up ice and almost like, copy Vegas's forecheck, which is one player deep in hunting and then the four other players

sort of more in the middle up above the puck and not taking as many chances. And the danger with that adjustment is you take away the effectiveness of the bump by that Vegas has been using because now there's nobody to bump by it, right? The reason why Vegas is able to create so much is with one like little rinky ding plate, they're bypassing a defenseman and then you need to have a forward back to defend the rush and forwards generally aren't as good. So if you pull that defenseman back

and tell them not to pinch now, there's nobody to bump the puck by and that defenseman is at the red line instead of inside the blue line. Now the problem with that again is, you know, are we throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Because the thing that's got in Vegas here

is they're forechecked and if you're telling your D's not to pinch and you're telling you forwards to come back earlier, you're going to lose all the effect of your fortune. And it's a big part of what's made them so successful and got into this point too, right? It's a very tricky thing to try to navigate. I will also point out, I think like the game environment and kind of the game script is an interesting thing to consider here where Florida spent so much of the first

couple rounds in these very, like, eight game scores, right? I believe like over 70% of their game time, they were either like up by one or tied and then I'm sure another significant portion of it, they were down one as well. It felt like each of these games was in a sort of situation where one play could potentially change the outcome directly, right? And if you're playing a very aggressive pressure-oriented style where you're banking on forcing your opposition into making a mistake in their own zone that's going to lead to an opportunity for you to score and win the game, that's a good position to be in.

the playoffs are already incredibly stressful, especially as you go further into them. You get later into games, players get fatigued both physically and mentally, and the likelihood in a tight game of someone making a mistake that's kind of uncharacteristic that they might not have otherwise made in a different environment probably increases. I think that's fair to say. And so once you get all of a sudden these games, if Vegas is able to go up and be up by multiple goals or like in game two, where they're just up two nothing, three nothing, four nothing,

before Florida can even counterpunch themselves. That also, I think, negatively impacts them more than you'd otherwise think because all of a sudden it makes things a bit sort of smoother for Vegas in transitioning the puck out of themselves without necessarily worrying about what one costly turnover is going to do to the game's outcome. Yeah, so the thing with Florida is, you know, what I'm wondering is, are they getting tired? And obviously everybody still in the playoffs is really tired.

But I'm talking even more tired. Well, Jack, they had nine days off. I mean, you can't be rusty and tired at the same time. It's got to be one or the other. I've heard people say that their extended break between series is a big reason of why they're playing so poorly. Well, you can be skinny fat. So why can't you be rusty and tired at the same time? But no, but the point I'm making is it's more of a mental fatigue where, you know,

they've been playing every game as if it's a game seven. since March. Because remember, like, they made the playoffs by the skin and their teeth. They've been cracking, like, you know, I'm sure Paul Maurice has been cracking the whip and we see the way that they're playing. They're playing tight defensively. But then they're also up ice and forechecking and forcing turnovers. So, you know, at this point, it's like, do we keep cracking the whip? Do we, you know, press the accelerator even further into the, you know, into the carpet? Or do we back off a little bit knowing that it's our aggressiveness that actually allowing Vegas to create these looks.

Yeah, I think the other tricky thing to navigate here for Florida is, you know, we mentioned earlier in the show about how an adjustment for them offensively might be to, you know, they need to lean into the rush a little bit more to isolate Vegas' defenders one-on-one. In theory, that sounds good, but with the way you've mentioned how Vegas plays that sort of more passive 1-4 in the neutral zone, that leads that kind of also plays directly into their hands a little bit when they're able to get set up because that increases the likelihood that you yourself will turn the puck over near the blue line in a dangerous spot in Florida doesn't have the best foot speed especially amongst their defenders in terms of recovering once you get caught up ice and so all of a sudden if you get players pushing for offense that way that could almost be like the final death blow here for that. where I guess you might have to try it just because you don't want to, you know, you have to

try something different. You can't just keep losing the way you have in the first two games. But if you do that, that might only expedite the process because like Vegas is uniquely positioned, I feel like, to take advantage of that unless it's executed perfectly. Well, what you can do is you can invite Vegas into his own and hope that they make a mistake, right? But obviously that's. Well, they've been, I mean, they themselves have been executing like they, I mean, well,

from a shooting percentage perspective, but also decision-making perspective, they've been about as clean as a team's going to be. But yeah, you're right. Maybe you kind of bank on them having a game off or two and then capitalizing on it that way. I don't know. It's picking the lesser of two evils, I guess. Let's quickly, we got like five more minutes here. Let's quickly talk about the Vegas offensive zone. We remarkably have spent this entire show without really talking about that as well. A lot of this ties into it, indirectly at least, but Vegas themselves, a stat that I keep referencing. They have 56 5-1-5 goals so far this postseason in 19 games.

You know, every single regular they've played other than Brandon McNabb has a 5-1-5 goal to illustrate their depth. They have 18 guys with 5-1-5 points. No one on the team has a negative goal differential or goal share. And their fourth line, William Carrier and Keegan Coliss are the only players who are on the ice for less than three five-on-five goals per 60 this postseason, out of all their players. And a lot of that is because they were playing with Teddy Blucher for a handful of games. When they've been playing with Nick Gua, the way they are now, they themselves are over

three, which is just absolutely unheard of. So the way this team is operating offensively and how efficiently they're scoring as well makes this so much more of a problem because for all the stuff we're talking about defensively and in the neutral zone and how tight and structure they are, they're also just punishing you at the other end of the ice as well and almost making it like, all right, well, we're not going to give you much, but we're also going to force your hand because we ourselves are going to score a lot. And so you're going to get into these situations where all of a sudden now, if you're Florida, you got to the Stanley Cup final, but you're having to dramatically change the way you play

to account for how much worse scoring on you compared to what your opponents were able to do previously. So Vegas is shooting hot, no doubt about it. If you look at the regular season, they weren't necessarily a powerhouse in terms of creating shot volume, but they were pretty good at converting, especially in the middle of the ice. And going back to the idea of, you know, this antipositional principle, a lot of it is dictated by time. So what I mean by that is if you watch like a positional team like a Guardiola Man City, like they're very methodical.

And, you know, recently they've kind of gone maybe more away from that. But you'll see other teams move the ball up the pitch really quickly. And not only can they catch players out of position, but they also catch defenders recovering. Right. So it's the process of recovering to the front of the net that leaves them vulnerable. And for me, like Vegas's ozone play is nothing special. Like, don't get into a two, three or they'll cycle low and try to get the puck out into like that third forward. But what makes them really effective is they're working off of the other team's confusion. And they're doing that because they get something right off the rush.

And then the other team has to reset. And now Vegas is able to move the puck and they're catching people kind of wrong foot. So in terms of the structure, nothing special. If you look through my playbook, you know, like other NHL teams are more creative or more fancy with it. But in terms of the timing, it's really good because at this time of year, it's really tough to catch teams off the rush. And because Vegas is able to do that, then it sets up their ozone play against players who are confused or tired or running around. Yeah. I disagree with you that it's not special.

I mean, maybe not like in a traditional way, but the fact that they see. so dramatically went from being a shot quantity team to a shot quality team the way they have. And it's not just because they're scoring, right? It's clear that they've, they've, you know, trimmed a lot of the fat off of their offense in terms of like in the past post seasons, their leading shot takers were Shay Theodore and Alex Petrangelo and all their defensemen and even Nate Schmidt while he was there. And then now they're funneling so much of their offense through Marsha So and Eichel and all of their other forwards, right?

and it's a clear departure from the way they used to play. And I think an acknowledgement of the limitations of what they did. So when we talk about Carolina and why we're frustrated with the way they play and, oh, they don't have the personnel to do so or whatever, that may be true. They don't have the personnel certainly up front that Vegas has, especially with the injuries they had. But like there is a philosophical shift we can point to here because the players

are the same, but the way they're choosing to shoot offensively in the offensive zone has changed. And to me, Jack, that is special. Okay, so we'll agree to disagree on this, but here's a prediction for the next two games being played in Florida. So obviously with Home Ice, the Panthers, they can set up the matchups in their favor a little bit. There's probably a bit of a boost from playing front of their home crowd.

So I think if Florida is able to neutralize Vegas's rush attack, either by playing a more passive forecheck or by, you know, stopping the bump by somehow, I think Vegas's in-zone offense is going to dry up a little bit. I think for Florida, the priority is avoid getting gashed off the rush. And then once they're able to avoid that, then I think, you know, their D-Zone is going to look better. And Robrovsky is going to look better.

As a result of me as well. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's a good show. That's something to watch for in game three for our listeners as that game happens on Thursday night. So we're giving them plenty of time to listen to this, think about this, and then get ready for that game. Jack, I'll let you on the way out, plug some stuff,

and let the listeners know where they can check you out. So if you're a coach who's already watching these playoff games in the mind to prepare your team for next season, I've got a really great resource for you. It's called Hockey Tactics 2023. It's an e-book that you can get at gumroad.com. Just search my name, Jack Khan, and Hockey Tactics, 2023, to download the e-book today.

Love it. I highly recommend it. It's a valuable resource for me all postseason and trying to pre-scout and get ready for these teams and what they do and how they play. So highly recommend that, Jack. This was a blast. Enjoy the rest of this series. Thank you to our listeners for listening to today's show. We'll be back tomorrow with plenty more of the Hockeyediocast as always streaming on the SportsNet Radio Network.