The Hockey PDOcast - Takeaways and Reactions From Day 1 of Free Agency Part 2

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by John Matisz and Sean Shapiro to break down all of the notable signings from the start of the free agent period. In Part 2 they discuss the Hurricanes, Rangers, Mammoth, Red Wings, and a number of other teams that caught their eye based on what they did or didn't do yet this week. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitry Filippovich. All right, we're back here in the Hockey PEOCast. We're doing part two of our July 1st, start of the NHL offseason, takeaways and reactions. Got Sean Shapiro and John Mattis joining us. We're going back and forth, pitching each other on the most interesting team so far this offseason.

Sean, you're next on the clock. Who is next on your list? Yeah, let's go to Carolina with, obviously the trade of the trade for Kiannri Miller from the Rangers. And then I believe a certain insider named John Mattis broke the Logan Stankovin extension here. So we're amongst elite company today to talk about this one. I find I think Caroline is always an interesting team in the way they handle some things and the way they approach things. And for me, just the Stankovin deal at first.

first is interesting because I mentioned earlier when we talked about the this is the last time you can do an eight-year deal and everything like that. And for Stankhoven signing the eight-year deal for six million per was fascinating to me. And having done a little more digging on that, it was interesting because it really felt like Carolina not taking advantage. I don't know if I want to use those words, but Stankovin was really shaken by the trade from Dallas to Carolina. He was someone who he had been in Camloops, drafted by the same organization that owned Camloops, thought he was going to be a Dallas Star for life. He was thought before the Miko Randen Trade happened, Jim Nill had called him untouchable. Logan Stankovin was part of his identity was he was

going to be a Dallas Star. At one point, fun Logan Stankhoven story, at one point, since they didn't I really have them in retail after he got drafted by the stars. He went and got his own custom-made mooterous hat, by the way, because that's how much Logan Stankovin had bought into the identity of being a Dallas star. And so from that player, and I talked about the emotional perspective of players in Florida being like, we want to be part of a dynasty. I think Logan Stankovans deal, and Dimitri, you were messaging, like, why would he sign this deal for eight years? I think Logan Stankovine came to the spot of like, I want to take control of my future right now.

I don't want to be traded again. I don't, now, obviously, he could be. But I think that was very much Stankovins saying, I want to do this and have control of my future that I lost, when I lost that control at the deadline in the trade from Eagle Randen. Now, the Miller trade to me is obviously really interesting with Carolina, because it, the back end now is with them. I could see you kind of, you look at where they're going with him and Slavin, obviously,

on their top two pairs. You see how things kind of shake out and how that team plays. I'm really interested to see where this goes with Carolina. Because so often there's that setup and the way that they play and they funnel shots and everything like that. And Miller's capable of that. But he's a little bit, he's not Brent Burns. He's not going to be a, he's going to be a little bit more of the,

I don't know if we want to use the word solidifier or whatever, whatever you want to call it here. But I'm interested to see him in that role and away from kind of the pressure of the New York perspective, too. Because I think you go to Carolina and it is an easier place to play. It is an easier spot, especially with his kind of status. And also to Carolina's perspective, you talk about moving assets around and everything. And I know it's easy, especially once again, because I have a lot of people from Dallas who follow me. and kind of try to dunk on Eric Tolski for losing Rand. And this is another move of them kind of netting assets from all of this move of using,

they use basically whichever picks higher, the Dallas, the Carolina pick goes back to the Rangers in this deal. Overall, I think it's another nice piece of work by Eric Tolski here for a team that always is interesting, but was even more interesting today and yesterday or whatever as these things all came together. Certainly. On the stanko in front, just getting that business done proactively the way they did. I mean, you look at it and going eight years for $6 million per for his age 24 to 31 seasons for a player. I think we all think very highly of is an absolute no-brainer. Ultimately, $48 million is $48 million. I think especially for a guy who has to work as hard as Stankovin does, given his size.

I think that certainty makes a lot of sense as well. But ultimately, it's such a team-friendly deal moving forward. I was joking with you guys that it seems like I was wondering whether Tulski was doubling as his agent for these negotiations. because that's pretty much one of those that you do every single time. Now, they were fascinating because they entered this period with like 27 million in cap space. And even after the Keandre Miller extension or signing following the trade, they still have more than enough to make significant additions. I'm very curious to see, you know,

they've been speculated as one of the top Nikola Euler's destinations. That would obviously make a ton of sense. It's a guy with offensive juice that could play with Ajo and John. And they have the real estate to do so. They chose not to use it on Granland, who got that $7 million for three years payday from the ducks. And so they still certainly have to add. And they can do so.

But Mattis, I know you wrote about this before we went on the air. I think that Keandre Miller fit in terms of how much they valued him clearly and the acquisition cost and then the contract that immediately followed suggested they were very high on him. He's going to play a prominent role in this team. And just given the player type and everything he's already been at this point, but even projecting ahead.

I think that's a fascinating discussion point, so I'll let you take it from here. Yeah, Miller was a bit of a weird player to evaluate because I feel like he was in the doghouse in New York, and it sort of hit his ceiling with that organization, not trusting him anymore, and, you know, there were offer sheet potential, like it just seemed like he was already on his one foot out the door, not necessarily the player's fault. So, you know, what is the changes to you really look like for this guy and what does you know, if we're looking ahead, like, does he play

with Slavin? Does Slavin go on the right side? And it's Miller Slavin? Does Miller get Pee-P-1 time? Maybe. I just, I'm really fascinated by the blue line, though, with Miller, Nekishin, Gostis-Ber on the left side, and then let's just assume Slavin's on the right side. Slavin, Chadfield, Walker. I mean, that's

really fun. It's still, it's still a lot to give up. I mean, I don't think we can gloss over that. A top 10 protected. Okay, so then it could be 11 to 32. First round pick in a really good draft. At least that's what people are saying right now a year out.

And then a second in the same draft. So two pretty high picks. And then Morrow, like, is it not, is it just me? Or was Morrow not, you know, an up-and-coming, you know, sort of a potential top four candidate for Carolina for the next 10 years up until today, right? So, like, I think if you're the Rangers, if you're a Rangers fan, especially with how things that kind of goes gone sideways with Miller and the organization, at least seemingly from afar. I think they got a ton of, they got a ton for them.

Obviously, a lot of it comes down to, okay, we did a sign and trade. So you got to, you know, kind of tack on that extra asset. But like, like, I kind of, you know, it's kind of lame. It's kind of boring. But I like it for both teams. I think I like it a little bit more for the Rangers. But I get why the hurricanes did it. And if they can land Eilers, not to get too ahead of ourselves, but I feel like if they land Eilers, like we got to

talking about them as being an inner circle cup contender just with the fact that even with eelers they'll still have cap space to do some damage during the season and they'll have added eelers and miller and obviously subtracted morrow but you know miller is a more finished product at this point um so yeah if carolina can do that um i feel like their stanley cup odds will increase pretty significantly well it sounds like they were they were ready to make an evan Bouchard offer sheet before he signed his 10.5 over four years deal the day prior. And then we're contemplating going the offer sheet route on Keonjah Miller. And at this price point, that would have been a first second and third in the sevens.

And so instead they give up the first, a second and Scott Morrow to get the eighth year on Miller. Now that first, you mentioned the protection. I think considering it's a Dallas or Carolina pick is almost certainly going to be in the mid-20s, if not even lower. So that's not that big of concern for me. I think Miller is fascinating because he's 26. I take all your points about him, and yet I'm so,

I like the player a lot and I like the bet. And I think he can do even better, especially in this system and this structure. Yet there's something so on brand about, you know, he's a player who clearly has immense individual tools in terms of his skating ability. I think he has so much more offensive upside than he's tapped into.

So far in New York, yet acknowledging all those sort of tantalizing skills, They haven't necessarily added up to actual offensive production for him. And that's such a Carolina Hurricanes player based on everyone they've had and the way they've operated. And a lot of his value is sort of tied up in the form of penalty kill contribution as well and how good he is shorthanded. And that's something that they clearly prioritize and we know how good they've been there. So it certainly fits a lot. It gives them a lot of options.

I think the acquisition cost and the contract are pretty pricey. But ultimately, A, you're moving on from Burns and Orlov and that experience. and I think that's an upgrade in and of itself. And then when you have slave in under 6.4 million and no other defensemen even above five, or above four, sorry, it's a luxury you can afford for what you view as an ascending player to lock him in at this price. So I think it does make sense for both sides. I do want to talk more about the Rangers, but I'll let you jump in, John, because it sounds

like you had a note maybe on the Carolina. Well, yeah, mine was actually more Rangers related as we go on this, just because I think the other interesting thing about this, is this also comes on the heels. So the Rangers getting the first. And it's going to be the higher of, it'll probably be in the mid-20s or late teens, depending on how the,

honestly, with how the stars look. Because I think Carolina, I expect to be in the east, no matter what happens, I expect Carolina to be at least two, three rounds deep. That's just what I expect from the hurricanes. The stars are more of a wild card. It's just between that team did not get better.

They got a new coach. They've got, they took some risks. The stars are a much larger fallback candidate. So if we assume it's probably going to be the Dallas pick, probably still going to be late teens at the earliest, right? But the reason, this is on the heels of the Rangers deciding to give Pittsburgh the pick this year, right? That was number 12 this year. Right. Yes. On the heels with the logic, the public logic being we're keeping it because for trade value.

And so it's a really interesting spot from a Rangers perspective for me of, and obviously you can give a public logic. justification for anything and whether you follow through on that or not is there's nothing to actually hold you accountable to that but i am fascinated now from a ranger's perspective now that you have this you have your own first which you've said you kept and you said you kept so you could potentially trade it and you have this other pick that's going to be in the teens from i'm fascinated to see where the rangers try to use this and try to make another move and and is it something where it becomes a July perspective.

It's something where you used to try to use it to pick something up right now and move something else around with, after some of these other pieces of fallen, or do the Rangers just become a, we're going to be a big buyer at the deadline because we now have both of these firsts in play or available or whatever. That's the interesting thing for me of that asset movement. When you, like, the morrow moving,

I think he's a fine addition to the team. To me, it's that first on the heels of the other first being given to Pittsburgh. that is really fascinating to me from what is the poker chip play here? What comes next here? I think it's a big-time TBD based on how they looked and how they finished last year, right? It's kind of insulates yourself

against the worst-case scenario as well with this unprotected pick hanging over you in this highly coveted Gavin McKenna draft. So I think that's part of it. But I do agree that I thought the Rangers their entire day as a whole, viewing it especially through the lens of conducting this business with cap restrictions.

ahead. A lot of that certainly self-inflicted, so I don't want to let them off the hook, but I thought it was pretty tidy across the board, right? Like, you're essentially turning Kiannoyne Miller, who you had decided you were out on as a player where you didn't want to commit to, and they expressed as much with the previous contract they signed him to as opposed to committing to them long term. You get a re-roll in Scott Morrow, and I don't want to undersell the moral part of this. I'm with you in terms of the picks as assets, but Morrow is turning 23 in November. He has been highly productive wherever he's played so far at both NCAA level. And in the HL, he got 14 games with the Cains last year. And I thought he looked quite good in that

cup of coffee as an audition. And he's a right shot defenseman on an ELC. So I think that's a pretty valuable asset. And so you get that, you get the picks. They get Will Cooley done. Now it's a two-year bridge. And you obviously would have liked to see them go longer term. But they keep the AV down to fit under their cap sheet. They avoid the offer sheet risk because if he had become available there and someone went five or six million, all of a sudden that would have been a pretty tricky financial predicament to navigate. And they get Gavikov signed at 7.7.

And I wanted to loop that in here as well, right? Because we saw a theme was some of the prices for a lot of these defensemen were pretty outrageous just because of supply and demand. And I thought he'd go for much more than that based on, especially once we saw the Proverov deal come out of the day. prior and I do think it's a deal that's not without risk right like he's 30 he's going from one of the most structured teams in the league to one that certainly wasn't under the previous regime we'll see what that looks like under mike sullivan this year but he's a good player and he'll play likely next to

adam fox on the top pair and so getting him at that price for way less than i expected him to go for makes a lot of sense and you loop that all together and it was they certainly came out ahead in my opinion, and we talk about July 1st, how difficult that is for a lot of teams to actually feel like that's the case, considering the prices they paid and the Rangers are maybe one of the teams that actually that is true about. I mean, if we're, I haven't looked at the full list, but if we're ranking the best deals of the day, I think I put Kooley up there, I put Gavikov up there. Kooley for avoiding the offer sheet and 3.9 for this sort of Matthew Nye's light player who still has so much growth in him, so much untapped potential.

I love that, even though it's short term. But you avoid getting screwed over by the opposite sheet. I think we're like, I think, and obviously this isn't necessarily a PDOCS thing, but I feel like the industry slept on Gavakov. He was just kind of sitting there as a UFA for so long and wasn't being talked up to the same degree as, you know, Eilers, Besser, etc. Obviously he plays a less sexy game than those guys, but in terms of impact on the game seven times seven one of the better deals of the day yes age not ideal but i think where the

rangers are going in this retool or whatever they're they're trying to pull off here slotting him beside adam fox potentially that's really tantalizing as far as giving fox a little more room to activate and and kind of cook as a you know this cerebral guy who can do everything and have Gavrikov feed him pucks, but also be the mean guy who will shut down the other team and put up crazy underlying numbers, especially like within the context of Ivan Proverov's deal, which was the opposite of good. It's crazy that that was signed one day and then Gavikov was signed the next day. And I suppose I get it from the instance of like, or from the perspective of if Gavikov pretty much only wanted to go to the Rangers, then he sort of lost his leverage a little bit.

but still nevertheless it's it's crazy the the difference between how i look at those two deals especially because like they're not the same kind of player but both left-handed both a similar age both kind of toolsy guys to some extent i love gavrikov like way more but like there's kind of some overlap there and for one guy to get paid 1.5 less but he's the better guy um is is quite something a little bit of that is handedness and i think what you mentioned there and part of why i wasn't about as much is because it seemed like such a foregone conclusion that he was going to the spot that he did. But you look ahead for the Rangers and they've got Fox and Borgon signed on the right side. They add Scott Morrow now, who I'm pretty high on.

And that leaves Brayden Schneider, who's a very interesting player and only makes 2.2 million this year, but it's an RFA next summer and is due for a raise as a fascinating subplot, I think, to follow in terms of a potential piece to move or kind of how that all shakes out. Part of that is we'll see what happens with Morrow there as well. but much more optionality now, I think, for them, and they did a good job recouping some of these assets. Do you want to... Real quick. When we're talking,

I know it's not a winners, losers' show, but if all of a sudden you're looking at setting up Fox playing with Gavikov for multiple years going forward, and you see how those two work together, is it one of the biggest winners, Adam Fox's chance at winning another Norris trophy? For sure. Just you think about kind of like that...

Like, I know we're not... Yeah. Well, we're making Team USA for the Olympic. team like after that four nations performance this stock went way down especially within the context of the just glut of american defensemen so yeah that's a really good point shot where it's like you know does this gabercov just really skyrocket fox's stocks quickly here yeah i know you didn't want to go winners losers but he's the one i can't help but think about like he's the one is like i'm going to get to play with this guy my point totals are going to go back to the norris

trophy level era i'm going to get this opportunity i mean adam this is uh this is this is it's a good day for Adam Fox. Yes, a clear winner. I completely agree. All right, I can't believe you guys, first you left Florida on the board for me to scoop it up. I know we're not doing an actual draft here. We're doing a cumulative project. But give me Florida.

Now you leave Utah for me. I'm going to be cleaning that up all day. Now I know it feels like forever ago now that the JJ Petirca trade happened and that was the big swing they took so far this off season. But I love, as I talked about when I did that trade breakdown over the weekend, the idea of, you know, they turned two good players that I think very highly of, especially Michael Kessoring, but Josh Dohn as well in his ELC, into one and potentially great one. And if you're a team positioned the way Utah is and trying to be taken seriously and having

real aspirations about building something meaningful, that's the way you do it. Now, they had a ton of cap space still heading in, especially after the Machelli trade. And I think they would have made massive cuts at either Marsh and or Bennett. They both stay, Matthew Nyes as well. And he signs that six-year extension we talked about before he makes it to an offer sheet potential. And so they wind up, you know, in smaller doses pivoting. They add Nate Schmidt for three years. They add Brandon Tannib for three years at 2.5. And I think both guys provide tangible utility complementing kind of what they already have in place with Tanev as sort of a fourth line grinder and

penalty killer next to Stanlin. And then Schmidt, you mentioned him earlier with getting his name on the cup and what a what a gem he is. I honestly figured he'd go for more than the 3.5 times three. I joked about four by four. And then when I started seeing the market, I thought it might even be higher because his Stanley Cup final performance was that good. And in the wrong spot, I thought that would have been a mistake because he would have been overstretched and a lot of his issues as a player would have had a microscope placed upon them. But considering the guys they already have there, I think they're pretty well positioned to use him similar to how Florida did in terms of getting third pair of minutes, having good players

out there with him to kind of insulate him a bit defensively and gap up and help him there. and then he just shined through so much as a distributor with his decision making with the puck. And so getting it to some of these Utah forwards, I think is an incredibly exciting thing. And the biggest selling point for Utah for me is, one of you mentioned this in terms of having, I think with the Keynes, having cap space and wiggle room entering the season and not just necessarily filling out your full team on July 1st and being stuck with it for the next couple months or even full season. Utah has about $12.5 million in cap space, with Jack McBain as an RFA.

Now, Logan Cooney's extension that he'll sign at some point this offseason, I assume, is going to take up a good chunk with his pay raise next year and beyond. But the cap's going up to 104. Schmaltz's deal is expiring. I think Kerfut's as well. And so that's going to count for a lot of it. And so you have a team that I think is going to be good and have visions of adding at the deadline or in season with the six picks they hold in the first three rounds of the 2026 draft,

with the 10 picks they have looking ahead to 2027, and all of a sudden, whoever I think shakes loose or becomes available once their team falters early in the year, Utah is going to be a very trendy team to acquire whoever that is. And so I like what they did now. They're going to be really good to start the year, but I feel like their avenues towards improving in season are also very much in place.

And so I love what they've done, and I think they're set up really nicely here. I think they're also in a, if they take like environment into, account too. I think they're in a prime position where you look at what happened in the rest of that division where there's a lot of teams

that's like we talked about saying like obviously John started us off with St. Louis is with the one with the with the with the hipster pick off the top but Dallas took a Dallas took a slide back. I don't think I think Colorado took a bit of a slide back like you look kind of across that

that division there's other teams that they are they need to contend with and compete with that they took some steps. Those other teams naturally had to take a step back. And then they come in with this war chest of the cap space and these things where we've got teams like you've got teams now they're not going to like you have you have an ability right where you could have I have no recent season why that Utah would want to bail out Dallas from their defensive log jam of Ili Olivushkin and Matt Dumbah. But you're Utah, you have the cap space where you could take on a player.

you could take one of those players for another pick, and you could, and you could stash them too or something like that. Like there's such an opportunity here for Utah to really take a foundation and then take a next step. And it's, I think that's one of the other lessons of today, right? There's a lot of teams that went so far in Ken Holland, chief amongst them. And I have to build my roster today. Well, there was a lot of other teams that said,

okay, I can wait a little bit and just try to build the trampoline for when, someone else has to, someone has to give me something. Yeah, I feel like the TANF acquisition and the Schmidt acquisition are the right way to attack for a agency for filling out the bottom of your lineup where like Brandon Tanna of great reputation, you watch him what you want in a fourth liner in terms of the speed, the forechecking, the back checking, doesn't get scored on a ton and just like, you know, he's 33, three-year deal, the AV isn't very high, it's like, this seems perfectly logical. it, you know, maybe he won't live up to the Aavv, but like he's 33 as well.

I'm sure he'll be fine by 36, tremendous skater, all that good stuff. Like, so they added to their team in just a way more like, I guess, strategic way than some other teams. And didn't go crazy. Like, they could have spent way more money as we've just been discussing. And it just seems very well thought out. And obviously, they're trying to keep some money around for Jack McBain, who still needs a contract. and you know Logan Cooley obviously that's a that's a big one and I just feel like they're on a bit of a bit of a nice hot streak here as a franchise I mean they pick Caleb Dain OAA fourth overall I thought if they had traded that pick it would have been them overthinking it

you're a team on the rise you're probably not going to pick in the top five for a really long time you have the fourth pick just use it unless you get some sort of package that's undeniably good and you just you can't walk away from it just pick it because that's guy's going to come through on a ZLC right when you have no money on your books anymore. And it's going to be a tremendous addition to your forward group. So I feel like Bill Armstrong's on quite the streak here. It's also with Bill Armstrong, right? It's also kind of the, it's like watching. It's been fascinating to watch him go obviously from one ownership set to what he has in Utah. And I think that's a big storyline here of it's like it's like the, it's like getting the training wheels off, right?

It's like you're riding a bike and all of a sudden he just gets to kind of keep going full speed. And all of a sudden you're like, wait, that kid couldn't ride his bike that fast before. But now the training wheels are off. Well, and he's got two Russians coming over, Russian prospects. Simashev and Boo, who have signed their ELCs. They're coming. I don't know if they're going to play NHL games next year, if they're going to be impact players if they do. But again, another win on top of Petirka, the fourth overall pick, this, like, very strategic, smart first day of free agency.

Yeah, it just seems like they're being very sort of big picture smart about things. They are. And yet I feel like you mentioned the ownership there. They certainly had the green light to spend in a more irresponsible manner and probably would have if they had their say. But a lot of the guys, they would have done so on didn't make it to them in the first place. So they wound up pivoting nicely. And I think they did well with it. All right, guys, let's take our final break here.

And then when we come back, we'll wrap up today's show and go through at least a handful more teams. that really caught our eye. To start this off season, you're listening to the Hockey P.D.O.CAS streaming on the SportsNair Radio Network. We're back here on the Hockey-Pedocas, joined by John Mattis and Sean Shapiro as we close out our reaction show

to day one of the NHL free agent period. John, you're on the clock with our next most interesting team from the past couple days. Yeah, I mean, we've spent a lot of time on the show, Demetri, talking about the Sabres, and it's usually in a negative light. So I'm going to step up here

and give them their flowers a little bit on that. McLeod extension. I feel like it's going to age beautifully. So five million times four for this guy who is already their second line center. And I mean, maybe he's a little over or underqualified for it at this exact moment. But I feel like he's going to grow into that, you know, easily. And that number will be, will be great value soon. And, you know, I, you know, I wouldn't have made the trade that they did with Utah in terms of Peturca. But, you know, that's a, you know, that's a doesn't mean that I don't understand where they're coming from or don't once you take, you know, a few steps back go, okay, like, you know, this could turn out to be okay.

This could be all right for them because, you know, Josh Stone is going to be a dog on a bone for them. They need more of those players. And then obviously Castle Ring is, unicorn's a wrong word, but, you know, six foot five, right-hand defenseman who's kind of slept on across the league. There's obviously some pop ability there. And, you know, circle back to today, Justin Danforth was a classic, you know, familiarity signing. And I think a pretty good one where Yarmal Kiklainen knows him from Columbus. And he signs him for, well, I guess Kevin Adams signed him. But he advised Adams to sign him for two years at $1.8 million.

And I'm not saying that the Sabres are on this trajectory to necessarily make the playoffs or to, you know, take the league by storm. But I feel like they're inching closer to being one of those teams. where night to night, they're way more competitive, and they're becoming more of a hockey team, for lack of a better way to put it, where they have guys in their right roles, in their right slots in the lineup.

Don is a great example of that, where they just have someone who they can sort of move around some versatility there, and they've just been lacking that in the past. So, yeah, Buffalo's got their issues, but I wanted to circle them a little bit, especially with that Ryan McLeod contract. Did you just bestow the period?

Dorian, we're a hockey team upon them because I'm not sure those are the parallels that you want to be drawing. No, I think it's a point well taken. I think McLeod certainly, uh, I was blown away by his game last year. I was, I was a fan of his skill set in his role in Edmonton and he really leveled up last year. And then Justin Danforth was, uh, you know, it was certainly partly tugging cheek, but I did a, uh, free agency preview with trance a couple days ago. And he was number one on his board of, uh, uh, under the radar kind of dart throws. And so, they land him as well. I want to see before I give them anywhere. I know we're not doing winners and losers, but

it seems like with the addition of Kesselring, they've certainly positioned themselves to not be the team that picks up the tab on Byram and either match an offer sheet that comes or trade them. And we'll see how that unfolds, but I like that much more than the alternative. So I think that's all great. Let's keep it going. Let's try to rattle through as many things as we can. Sean, who's next to your list? Yeah, let's go. Just interesting because I am fascinated what they still have to do is how the hell is San Jose going to get to the cap floor, right?

Because that was the, I expected the, now, like, they did go and sign John Klingberg to a $4 million deal, which feels so much like a, which feels like that's a buying a draft pick move, right? Like, that's the same exact, ironically, Klingberg, Anaheim did this with Klingberg two years, three years ago now, where he's signed to that $4 million deal. They'll probably retain as much as they can and get a third or fourth round pick at the deadline for a team looking for a right. shot d i was just it's i thought there with with the san jose perspective and i don't mind anything they

did but it just seems like there's i thought there might have been a couple why not throw some why not mess with the market and throw some extra money at some guys that because you have the power to do it pay some guys on a one-year deal to get there and i guess a little more credit to greer for not being in kind of waiting but i am really interested to see how you're going to do it because even with the, even with, uh, Cotor's, even with keeping Cotor's hat,

um, cap hit there. And, and, and some of the other, some of the other, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the last week. And everything. You still got to find a way to get up. I think they're, right now they, they're projected 61 million for Pocpedia. So they got to find nine million more dollars. Like,

Greer said he was going to chip away at it. I don't, it's hard to chip away to nine million. It's a 9 million more. So I'm fascinated to see how it works and how they get to the cap floor on this. And they're an intriguing team to me either way because I said earlier, like they got some young guys. I'm looking forward to watching them play and everything.

And I'm glad they're not blocking any of them. But I also, you got to play by the rules. So how are we going to do this year? Well, and they get Nadelcovic as their backup with Ascarov. So you've got some real offensive production from the back end there.

Yes. The back back end. the crease. Doesn't, like for them, I would almost be the team, like, there was this goalie market

where they're, like, obviously it was actually probably smart by Detroit to get in on the, the Gibson thing before with what happened with the goalie market,

but they almost seem like the team to me where they almost should have overbid for one of these goalies, like, if anyone, like, Philly given Dan Vladar,

3.35 million, good God, right? Like, I don't, that's a crazy deal, but they should have been almost the team signing a third goalie that more than he's worth knowing and basically selling the guy on look someone's going

to get hurt we're going to move you by we'll move you by mid-November right like there there seems to be a couple things there that i would have loved to see san Jose do in this unique position where it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if you got another first round pick this year so first overall pick this year well to your point with burns coming off the books for the canes that opens a retention slot for the on the clingberg front i do think though that with the young forwards they have, adding defensemen who can get them the puck and put them in advantageous positions offensively

makes a lot of sense. That's why I kept kind of linking Dougie Hamilton to them in terms of taking on his contract from the devils that they were looking to clear it. And so this is obviously a much smaller scale, but I don't mind it. I actually thought Klingberg looked much better in the playoffs, certainly than he had previously

when Anaheim made that move before his hip surgeries. They extend Eklund for three years. They bring in Goddette and Khrushev as well. You mentioned Adelkovich. they certainly still have work to do in terms of getting to the cap floor and a lot of teams have a bunch of money available. So that puts you in a spot where there aren't as many salary dump opportunities as in the past to recoup more picks. But it's a TBD for them, certainly. You know, one team that I have, I have two teams that are kind of lurking in the weeds here for me.

We mentioned the hurricanes still having a bunch of cap space and desire to add Utah as well. a team you cover, Sean, the Detroit Red Wings. I imagine your day covering them. You also cover the stars as well in the league as a whole, but it was a pretty chill day for you, I imagine. Make yourself some coffee, hang out, watch all the other teams go crazy because the Red Wings really didn't do much.

They got some of their work done before in dumping Terrace Hanko's 4.75 without having to pay anything for it, bringing back Kane for another year. They add JVR one by one. They go short, bringing in Jacob Bernard Docker, bring back Bergrand. They obviously add Gibson at the draft as well, but you look at where they're at right now,

and they have about 15.3 million in cap space with essentially a full lineup. And I'm fascinated to see what they do, because obviously Steve Eisenman has been very aggressive, tragically so in previous off seasons when it comes to free agent spending. And there was much more moderation and restraint this season, partly I imagine just because of how few sort of sexy names that were available as opposed to past ones when he was very intrigued by a lot of guys. My question for you is why I've seen the hurricanes,

the lightning somehow, a few other teams linked to Niklai Ehlers as logical spots. In thinking about this, why wouldn't they be an aggressive pursuer of Eelers? It seems like at this point they don't want to take on a bunch of future commitments, and I think that makes sense

because you look ahead to next summer and it's going to be a $104 million cap environment and they have $55 million committed with only Simon Edmondson's second deal coming up. So they're going to have a ton of space to operate and maybe they're timing this thing out a bit more strategically than they have in the past. But Eilers is obviously an incredible player. And the idea I think of adding him to play with Larkin and Raymond would be incredibly enticing to me. And I think he certainly ages as a UFA edition much better than everyone else they've brought in previously. yet I haven't seen them listed on any of the logical fits for Eelers and where he could go and there's a clear need and a ton of cap space and they've done this sort of shopping before. So why haven't they been listed as one of the teams?

Well, there's two parts to it. I think one is, it is, Steve Eiserman is the closest thing to we've had to Lill Amarillo and how he handles things getting in and out, right? So I think that's part of it. There is a extreme lack of leaks within the organization because of how Steve runs things. He operates very, I don't want to say he doesn't take input, but he operates when I know you talk to people who work within that organization and you get the vibe of Steve does his thing and he does what he believes is right. And if he wants advice, he asks for it. Like the whole, when they traded Jake Wallman last summer, there's a lot of people that were surprised about it within the organization.

organization just because it's not like he went and took the advice from everyone. So those things don't really get leaked out off. And that's that's one. Euler's would be a great fit for Detroit, right? Like it's the piece where you have the 15, roughly 15 million in cap space right now. If you brought him in and you know if you overpaid his price, you'd still have space to get up to add a couple pieces here and there. So I think honestly with the Euler stuff, I think it's a little bit more of the state of does Eelers want to go to a team that is going if he's leaving Winnipeg and we hear he might circle back there and everything like does he want to go to a team that is by the GM's admission still two three years from actually quote unquote contending right like

every time Eiserman speaks and everything like that he talks about i want to build a cup contender we I thought maybe we had a team that could compete for the playoffs he's a little he's very honest about that when he speaks so credit to to Steve on that fact but But if you're Nikola Eelers and you're leaving Winnipeg won a President's trophy this year, do you want to go to Detroit and fight for a wildcard spot? Or do you want to go to a Carolina and Tampa where the expectation is to win a Stanley Cup? Right? I think that's just the reality from a Detroit perspective of, yes, he's clearly sold Patrick Kane on what's happening.

He's sold a couple other – he's got some other pieces there. But I also don't know if Patrick Kane is the – obviously being in Detroit, I deal with Kane quite a bit. Kane is a little bit more of a, I think there's a little bit more of a legacy thing for Kane that doesn't require championships. I'm not saying Kane doesn't want to win. I don't want to go and say that far,

but there's a level of Kane has this opportunity probably to pass Mike Madano for all of these American-born records and everything like that. And I know Kane's a big legacy guy, John. I know you've probably talked to him in a locker room and everything like that. For Kane being able to do that and having all, of his numbers with original six teams. That's a very Patrick Kane type career achievement to look for. It's not necessarily, hey, are we going to win a, like even look at Kane's bonus

structure. It's based on winning two rounds. It's not a Win a Stanley Cup bonus structure. Like the highest bonus structure is 250K for winning round two. So in Detroit, winning is not really, winning a Stanley Cup is not on the docket. And I think if you're Eilers, why would you want to go there if you're leaving Winnipeg for, And I think that's a little bit more of it from just from the player perspective of

of just the reality of where the teams are and the bill. But from a Detroit perspective, yeah, Eilers would make a ton of sense, especially playing with if you can put them with the, Larkin and Raymond. Well, I think the selling point is pretty clear. It's make a lot of money, put up a ton of points, getting to play with, Larkin and Raymond have a lot of fun doing so

and be on a team who obviously still has a ton of work to do, but even with Eilers' contract would have about 40 million in cap space next summer as they weighed out, you know, some of these past mistakes like charade and hole to kind of come off the books. So yeah, it's certainly not on the top of the list, but considering how little noise there's been there, I thought that was interesting. The other team that has been linked to Nick Elers and I think also falls into this bucket, obviously at a very different stage as an organization, but in terms of not really doing much today and sort of lurking in the weeds are the Colorado Avalanche for me, where at the draft they clear

a significant amount of room by sending coil and wood in an A plus trade and getting a bunch of assets back. They lose Jonathan Drew and the Islanders. They don't pay Ryan Lingren, so they avoid that landmine. And they go short. They go only the one year, $1.4 million with Sam Malinsky. If Logan O'Connor goes on LTIR, they are going to have about $10 million in cap space to play with.

And I'm fascinated to see what they do with that, because we know that, we know that Joe Sackie and Chris McFarland are going to be aggressive. They're clearly in win now mode. They are coming off another disappointing postseason, losing in round one. And there's a lot of options available to them. Eilers is lurking there as well. They've got this nature's question with him up after the season and playing on a $6.5 million contract.

So there's a lot of different ways they can go about it. I imagine they're going to be aggressive in trying to improve this team. And so it'll probably come via the trade-out or if it's not Eilers. But it's fascinating because they've been so hamstrung financially with some of the contracts they've had being up against it and not really being able to add or having to do so through all these intricate trades. And now all of a sudden they're sort of sitting there without like a significant amount of cap space and a desire to be a really good team.

And so what they do next I think makes them a certainly a team of note for me. If you don't mind, I've got another team that's been linked to Eilers that I like to talk about. That didn't do a ton today, but I think is interesting, the Washington Capitals. So they have $7 million left in space at the cap, according to Pugpedia. And, you know, they signed Fairevarie to an extension today. They previously acquired declanchesum. And otherwise, didn't do a whole lot in the last couple of days. But one thing that I would have been thinking about is that they're a rare organization, I think, in the NHL that's really figured out how to synergize

amateur scouting, the development staff, and pro scouting, because one thing I noticed that the draft is they take this kid Lyndon Lackovich. And he's like, you know, he fell down to 27 because he's this big dude who isn't physical. And guess what they have experience in developing those types of guys, a.k.a. Protis. So I just found that interesting in terms of like maybe taking a shot on another protis type guy. with the sort of confidence that we can do this. And then a couple of days before that, they acquired Justin Sordiff from the Panthers.

And it was one of those trades where you go, they traded him for what? The Panthers traded him for what? Because the Panthers got a second round pick in 2026 and a sixth round pick in 27 to a guy who's essentially an AHLer at this point. But the Capitals turn around and they sign him to an NHL deal. and I was talking to someone from the organization. They're like, yeah, we see an NHL player here. Like, we're confident that he can slide into our lineup. So I just feel like that they really have found a sweet spot between how they evaluate players

and maybe I'm talking mostly about forwards and, you know, who they pick, who they feel like they can get their hands on and really mold into an NHLer. And their pro scouting has been fantastic for the last, whatever, 18 months that I'm pretty confident that sort of is going to turn into a player here, even though his hockey DB page doesn't necessarily scream, you know, everyday NHL or that we're going to look at and go, oh, this is another genius pull by the Capitals. So fairly quiet day for the Capitals, but they're a team I've been thinking about lately. I think that's very fair. I'm with you. Their pro scouting has gotten to the point when they identify a guy even if he wasn't on your list,

all of a sudden you got to take stock of it. And they're certainly going to still try to be aggressive and they have some space to do so they didn't use any of it today and so what they do next and eilers i mean eilers would be a great fit for literally every single team so i don't think that's groundbreaking analysis but i think his speed and playmaking would be very helpful especially when you look at a lot of the other player types they have you got any any other teams we haven't gotten to yet uh on your list Sean i'm proud of us for not talking about the bruns and tanner geno yet because that was certainly easy pickings but man that contract was probably the one that blew me away the most of it. I feel like we got to go there though now, right? Like, now that we said it,

like, we can't, I mean, the five, it's, we're talking a five year term, what, three point four million for this is, he's going to have the greatest like trade tree for whatever, like in like five, 10 years from now, there's going to be a great trade tree stories about what Tanner Gino was worth. And he's going to be the cautionary tale because this is a, he's a fourth liner. And whether like he's a fourth lighter that plays 10 to 12 minutes and you're going to commit to them for five, like, I think we were, we were in our,

the three of us were messaging back and forth. I compared what the Bruins did today to, uh, how my soon to be seven year old daughter plays chess. Like we've gone over, like she's learned what all the pieces do. She knows what they all do. And we can,

we can actually, like a pawn goes like this, a bishop moves like that. And so she can sit at the board and knows what all the pieces do. But after about four moves, all the pieces are gone because you have no idea actually to use them. And that's what the Boston Bruins to me just kind of feel like, where they went through and when you make this type of move for Tanner-Jadeau,

you're like, okay, this is, I'm still baffled by that one. Like, that one is, I have no good answers. It's crazy that he got this contract because, like, it's not like he scored 24 goals last year or the year before. Like, it was 21, 22, and he was electric that season, like, fighting everyone. Like, he just burst onto the scene. So you understand why the lightning like paid a big haul for him.

And then it didn't work out and they moved on from him. But it's like for him to get that second run of like, you're you're the missing piece, you're this, you know, tough guy that we need in our lineup. Like, I don't know. It's crazy because like his last four seasons, 0.25 points per game, 0.25, 0.20, 0.19.

Like it's all within the same bracket. That's a big sample size. I don't think this guy's much of a score or a producer. He's just, you know, going to add toughness to your lineup. And that's fine. But at that term and at that number, I don't know. That's not fine to me. Yeah, the reminiscent of the Matt Boleski signing from years back for those to remember, I mean, 17 million total for a player who was not top 17 points in a season since that

2021-22 campaign is absolutely crazy. I didn't have them my list because it's ultimately inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. It's obviously stunning. But they were so active. They bring in Arvinson from Edmonton, take on his contract, bring in Corral, Ali Asimant, they retain Yogi Haru for three years. They bridge Lori previously. They obviously keep geeky for six years. They're very active. But in terms of looking at what matters heading into the season and my expectations

for them, I just didn't find it that compelling. Well, and the other thing about just with the Genoa thing, too, is like he's a guy with the build and everything, he had the one 24 goal season or whatever. You look at him. And if you're a GM and you're selling your owner or your fan-based style, and you're like, you know what, this is the type of guy who gets it done in the playoffs, right? That's your quote unquote selling point. He's got what?

I think three assists in 16 career playoff games. So like it's like it's obviously not the largest sample size. But even that point where if there's there's nothing here, it's the whole, it's why we're, I'm laughing while we're talking about it. I just don't know how you can, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're ton suede, how you look your ownership of the eye and say this was the right move. It's, it's, it's laughable. Wait, you're telling me that the Bruins are gearing up for the playoffs in 2025?

No, I'm not. I'm just saying that's the only, that would be if you would look at Tander Shino's, if you were to try to pretend to pivot this and package this as a deal that you could actually do, you'd be like, look at his size, look at him, he must be built for the playoff hockey. That's the only reason. My main problem with the deal is that we've seen it with, you know, Miles Wood and some other players where bottom six guys, that you feel like you're getting a real bargain on by giving him four or five, six years at a low number.

That sounds great the day you sign him. But there's a reason why it makes sense to bring ELC guys up because they're always going to be cheaper. They're new blood. You know, you want to not be able to be stuck with a guy in your bottom six, like, at all for an extended period of time, especially if they're the age that Genoa is. So like, it just doesn't, it doesn't add up to me. And like, I don't know if it'll take, you know, a bigger group of bottom six forwards that get paid this way for GMs to smarten up.

But it just seems kind of crazy to me that you would tie yourself up one spot in the bottom six for the next three, four, five, six years when you know that player's declining. And even though the cap's going up, like, there's going to be a point where you just want him off your cap sheet, period. And it's a lot easier to just demote a guy to the minor leagues than, you know, try to get rid of someone like general. It got the Trent Frederick deal off the hook, didn't it? Yeah, pretty much. Although I think Frederick's a better player, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, certainly.

Yeah. All right, guys, we did it. That was really fun. We covered as much as we could hear today. I will be back tomorrow with Drens to do another sweep of the latest news and take a bigger picture of you once we have a bit more time to adjust everything that happened today. I'm going to let you guys plug some stuff on the way out here because you're both obviously doing great work at your sites.

And I want the listeners to check it out. Sean, you go first. John, you jump in after that, let the listeners know what you're up to. Yeah, go, obviously, for me, anything you check out, our lead prospect supports me right now. We've been busy with them through the draft guide and draft season and everything like that. And then obviously I'll plug my own site through substack, shapshotshotshockey.com. Head over there.

I'll have something up tomorrow morning, probably some of the thoughts I shared tonight, but a little bit more in written form after thinking about them a little bit more. so I have something up there tomorrow and more this week. And so yeah, check that out shapshotshockey.com, elite prospects. And yeah. I'll shout out, you know, kind of a weird thing to do on a sportsnet property, but I'll shout out Bob McKenzie, who's going from semi-retired, fully retired.

And the guy's just the goat. Like, I don't think anyone listening is going to argue with that. And I'm sure people are nodding along because they've seen the news, too, that he's gone from kind of being sort of in our life still to like, hey, guys, I'm just going to be gone. Like I'm going to go hang out with my family. I'm going to be fully retired. He announced that today after the free agent's frenzy.

So yeah, that guy's a legend. And he went out in style. I think throwing one last haymaker to show that he still got it. And this is his choice because I believe he was the first on the Aaron Neckblad extension in Florida as well. So Bob is the king. Obviously, no one that follows hockey needs the three of us to talk up his accolades and his work throughout the years.

but I will say just personally, like when I was first starting in this industry, he was so kind to me at a time when people were very combative with bloggers and analytics people in particular. And he was really generous with his time and advice and just really thoughtful in doing so. And he was a very busy, prominent guy. He had no reason to do so, but that's the type of person he was. So Bob is the best. All right, guys, both of you are the best too. Thank you so much for coming on at the end of a very busy day during a busy time in the NHL. That's the last time the two of you will be appearing on the show.

As I said, you're not rid of me yet because I'll be back tomorrow with trans for one more sweep. But I wanted to thank both of the U.S. I got you here for another great season of PDO guest appearances and all the work you've been doing. And I love chatting with you guys. And that's why I make a point for these landmark events having the two of you on so we can get a little bit of a roundtable going and do what we did here today. Go give us five-star reviews wherever you listen, join the PDOCAST Discord as well. I'll still be active in there even as we get into the offseason. And thank you for listening to the hockey PDOCAST streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.