The Hockey PDOcast - Takeaways From Game 4 of the Stanley Cup Final

Episode Date: June 10, 2026

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by John Matisz to help break down Game 4 of the Stanley Cup Final. We discuss our big takeaways through four games of this series, how the two teams are creating all of the offense we've seen so far, Jordan Staal's late bid in the Conn Smythe discussion, and everything else you need to know heading into Game 5 on Thursday night. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Lessing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey-PedioCast. My name is Demetri Filippovich. And joining me is my good buddy, John Mattis, John. What's going on, man? A lot. My sister just had a baby found out this morning.

And we're coming off game four of a truly incredible cup final. So life's good. I like how you framed that. You made it sound like it was a surprise. You're like, oh, that happened. I wasn't expecting it. I've been so locked in the Stanley Cup final that I totally lost track of it. I believe a storyline throughout this cup final has been that a bunch of these players as well,

either either 14 or expecting babies on the way. So it's certainly that time of year. I'm very excited for today's show. You and I did the post game right after game one of this series. And it was a thriller. And we had a lot of fun notes and conversation about it. And it feels like it's been just stacking one on top of another, really, the first four games have all been bangers.

Another multi-goal lead a race in this game four, another high-scoring game, another one-goal game. Essentially, I know the score line is 5-3, but the empty-netter at the end obscures that a little bit. It was very tight, including tied partway through the third. And so we're going to break it all down with our takeaways from Game 4 on Tuesday night, how this series has gone to this point, tied at two now, going into Game 5. and then kind of what to look forward to in the back half of the series. I am generally so scattered entering these postgame shows because I have a million thoughts that I want to get through.

And so I kind of typically defer it to the guest to provide an entryway into what they find most interesting. But this time I very definitively feel like we've got to start talking about Jordan Stahl, which is becoming a remarkable story and his dominance of this series, the goal scoring all the other layers to his game as well. and how he's kind of thrown his hat into the ring of surprise cons my picks depending on how this series goes, especially with all the uncertainty surrounding the hurricanes options if they're the ones to win this series. Let's get into his game for here and all the stuff he did because there's so many good things to sort through.

I certainly didn't see this coming. He's obviously been a very valuable player for the hurricanes and provides a ton of defensive utility in his matchup role. but the goal scoring, man. Him just going off the way he has, he has five goals and he's first four games. If you had told me at the start of the series that the hurricanes had combined for five goals as a team through four games,

I probably would have thought that was more believable than him individually doing so. And so he's the story to me coming out of this game. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, let's start with that iconic four-three goal. Just like unbelievable stuff. So he pressures Theodore, and the puck actually goes off.

off of Stahl's skate. So he kind of like gets an assist in that sense. And then Jarvis tries to deak out heart ultimately fails. Jarvis stays on the puck. It's somehow like a one on four in the corner, Jarvis versus all these Golden Knights players. And then Eler sort of lurks his way in, gets involved. The puck squirts across the slot.

And Stahl seems to be almost going the other way like anticipating a change of possession. And then obviously he sort of pretzels his way back and he's falling to the round and somehow gets a backhand off. That's just a complete wobbler. But it beats heart. And I mean, like if the Hurricanes win this series, that's going to be right up there as a top moment, like probably a top three moment, whatever the game winning goal is to win the cup ultimately.

That takes the cake. But after that, this has got to be in contention. And of course, he also scored the 3-1 goal at the end of the first where, you know, a bit of a fluke of, you know, got spare point. it goes off McNabb's arm, but stall's right there. Like, he's been Netfront presence the entire series, and I don't know about you, but I found most of his goals have been pretty high degree of difficulty.

Not so much that first goal in game four, but like he had these great tips in games two and three, and then of course that, like I said, the iconic winning goal in game four, just dominant performance all around in terms of the physical aspect of the game, winning puck battles all over the ice, extending plays with his protection methods and just, I mean, I'm sure I've mentioned it on

the show before, but like I feel like he's got to be the strongest guy in the NHL, like going up against him, whether it's a face off or sort of one-on-one in the corner, it's got to be just extremely frustrating in terms of just never getting that an inch on him. And I love that. I forget the exact stat, but I believe he has now the record for, when the season started, sorry, the series started, the record for longest stretch between Cup final appearances. I believe it was 09 and then obviously 2026. Like, I think that context makes this even more interesting and fascinating and just like impressive. Hey, this guy's legitimately old in this league and has been there, done that a bunch of times. but he's stepping up in a significant way for his team.

And of course, him being the captain just is the cherry on top. I think iconic is the perfect way to describe that 4-3 goal, especially if the hurricanes go on to win this series. I'm going to tell my kids that was Bobby Orr flying across the ice to get that back end home. Now, ignore the part where he kind of tripped on himself to force that dive, but made the most of it with an incredible effort. Yeah, to your point, I mean, he turns 38 in September.

This is his 20th NHL season, and he's kind of doing it with this dominant old man ground game in a way where he's just impossible to move when he sets up shop, especially on the power play in front of the net, where, you know, a couple times it feels like the hurricanes defenders have tried to, as they do typically, kind of front him and try to block the shot before it ever gets there. And Gosses and Bear shots have gone through and he's been able to tip them. But there's been times as well, even on that goal in the first period where I believe it's Jeremy Lozahn, who's a really good penalty killer that just cannot really do anything with them as soon as he plants his skates there and sticks his butt out and says, you're not going to move me and I'm going to tip a puck or get home or rebound when it gets here. Maybe too strong at times. How many sticks did he break in this game? I feel like his sticks are posing no challenge to the force that he's applying to them. But on the goal scoring front, I was looking at this. He had six goals in 55 playoff games over the past four post seasons for the hurricanes.

And he has seven so far this year, including five in these four games, tack on a primary assist. I think he honestly could have gotten another primary assist to his name on the Eilers empty netter because he kind of out muscles or boxes out, Dora, for a loose puck to seal him and maybe he didn't necessarily touch it with a stick, although it looked like he might have to be at least at first glance, but kind of sets that one up to put the game away as well. He's 155 of the 81 face-offs.

He's taken. And typically, if you're in that like 47 to 53% range, it's ultimately a couple here. There doesn't really matter. But once you start getting into that territory of the extremes, I do think it becomes notable, especially with some of the city. situational stuff on special teams and against Ikel that he's having to do it against. And to kind of put that 55 faceoffs, he's won in perspective. Second in the series is William Carlson down at 33.

So the gap between the two of them is seismic. He's up 4-2 in his 65-on-5 minutes. And now if you break it down even further, half of those minutes have come head-to-head against Ikel. Shots 16, 13, 13, hurricanes, goals, 1-1. 17 of those minutes against Mitch Marner. shots 10 to 5 Carolina goals 2-0 and marner is I think up 7-2 in his minutes away from stall so he's really been the only guy to have any success against him even though it necessarily hasn't been a head-to-head matchup that they've gone to very frequently but maybe that's something they explore in game five with the benefit of last change a couple other notes on that 4-3 goal because you know you mentioned I think his initial effort is important in getting in on the 4-check and apply. buying the pressure and then I think even kind of getting a piece of his body on the puck

that wound up sending it out front to Jarvis and then Jarvis's effort on that one on four where he somehow Houdini act style gets the puck out of that scrub out to Eilers who beautifully sells the shot and gets it over to stall before he bats at home. I don't know how Jarvis did not get credit

for an assist on that play. That feels like injustice in my opinion because he clearly played a fundamental role in setting that one up. But yeah, I mean, you know, we talked a lot about Stahl versus Eichl heading into the series and through these four games.

We're going to talk more about Eichl in a second here, but it's been pretty decidedly in favor of Jordan Stahl. And I think that's an immense credit to just how well he's played in these games. Yeah, on the Eichael note, halfway through the game, you know, I saw him kind of pop up on my screen. I'm like, I haven't noticed Eichael whatsoever this game.

Like, I feel like he turned it on in the late second and in the third. and obviously ultimately didn't find his offense in terms of getting on the score sheet. But like legitimately I did not notice him for the first half of the game. That's unacceptable if you're a player of his caliber and when the stakes are this high. And I don't know if it's fully like the other team shutting him down. You know what I mean? And hey, after game one, I was giving Eichl a ton of credit.

I thought he had a really good game but didn't quite, you know, various chances and that it was going to come. but this was sort of the other way where I felt like it took him way too long to make an impact. And now he's only at two assists in four games. And I don't know about you, but he's, you know, on paper, like sort of like a worldly way to look at it. He's the best player in the series, the most skilled, the most talented. And I wouldn't say it's like super close. So if Vegas is going to come back in this series, like he's got to have a Monster Game 5.

Yeah, if you were ranking the players in terms of, you know, I guess, accolades or their place in the league's hierarchy, he would definitely be atop that list, despite the postseason Marner's had, I think just because of positional value in particular. I had him down for Vegas's three probably most dangerous chances in the third period. On the power play, he just obliterates a one-timer from that left flank

that beats Bossy cleanly and just rings off the crossbar. When they were down four-three, they put Marner up with Eicholins. Stone and they ran a beautiful set play off offensive zone face off Ico one where they go D to D. Marner kind of wheels around the net and just immediately hits Ico backdoor for a glorious opportunity that Buzzy came across and stopped. And then when they pulled a goalie right off that initial face off, he gets a clean look

and he just shoots it over the net. So you like that from a process perspective because he's been largely invisible offensively for most of this series. So that would be something to build off of. heading into the back half of the series. But those moments have been few and far between, to your point, like halfway through this game, as you referenced, there was that power play they had where, you know,

stall breaks a stick one of those times that I talked about. And he's out there for like 90 seconds. And they're essentially playing five on three. And they're just kind of tentative and indecisive and passing the puck around and not able to really isolate stall. And, you know, they get one look eventually from, Michael, kind of coming towards the middle of the ice, but ultimately did not do nearly enough with that opportunity that presented itself. And I don't know what to make of it. I mean, I think

he's clearly banged up in some capacity. You know, he's getting cleaned out on the face-offs. Like I mentioned all the face-off stalls won. He's generally taking them against Ikel. And so the other side of that is that Ikel's losing a lot of them. I think he's under 39% for the series. They're down 5-2 in his 5-15 minutes. He has only six 5-1-5 chance contributions, which is like 19th among all skaters. Wow. In this series. And, you know, he's had some power play stuff that he's created, and he had a good

second period in game one. But it has been bizarre how easily he's being kind of removed from pucks, right? There's been a couple times where he looks like he's a promising rush and a Keondry Miller just pokes it away. And Keondra Miller does that really well, so it's not necessarily surprising. But there's been other times where a breakout pass. kind of doesn't cleanly get corralled by him and they don't get anything out of it or he kind of enters his own and just nothing materializes despite that and he's not really handling the puck

properly and so it's been a relatively confusing performance by him in my opinion. No, I agree. And you know, you mentioned the sort of inability to convert on the power play for the Golden Knights when Eichl was out there, especially with that five on three. I found that it was really impressive what the Hurricane second unit did. It was technically an even strength goal when Stankovans scored. When Blake scored. What Blake, sorry, I got my names mixed up there. But it was technically an even strength goal because the penalty had just expired.

But they wouldn't let Vegas out of their defensive zone there. And they sort of made them pay where you've got Hall going cross-crease to Jackson Blake. And I just, it just highlighted, even though it was a whatever, powerplay slash even strength goal, whatever you want to call it, even though it was this sort of advantageous position, I still felt like that whole sequence really highlighted the Stankovin lines chemistry. Like I'm continually blown away that this line's been together for months versus years in terms of how, you know, how well they know each other as far as, you know, the hockey IQ, where each guy's going. going without having to overthink it. You know, they can, they're good off the rush. They're good on the cycle, on the forecheck. The spacing in the, in the offensive zone is just so interesting to me.

And I've mentioned this on the show before, but like their ability to sort of go east-west, but in like a, in a way that it's like a balance of risk and reward, like they're taking chances, but it's, you never go like, oh, that was like, you know, kind of going too far. That was something you shouldn't do in, you know, the cup final. I just find that all three of them are pretty unselfish players, but can also bury. And the last thing about that line is they scored again off a faceoff, and I think this is the third time they've done it in the series. And this was, you know, Stan Kovin's opening goal, which he hits his fifth opening goal at the playoffs. I thought that was a great stat from the broadcast.

Yeah. And like, so bang shot from the point, heart misplays the puck. Like he sort of fans on it. It shades of, you know, the game winner. game three and then Stankhoven buries it. I just thought that was notable in terms of a development over the cross of across

the series where for whatever reason the Stankovin line seems to be converting almost exclusively off face-offs. And you wouldn't expect that. You know, this is a smaller line. This is sort of a line that you would think would need some zone time to make their magic happen.

But they've been able to convert pretty quickly after the puck gets dropped. Yeah, that was Stancovin's 11th of the postseason, I believe they're 10 and no now in games in which he scores. And he had out a pretty quiet game three, I thought. And then that line in general kind of reunited, right? Because they split them up in that third period of game three to try to get the offense going. And they were playing Blake and Hall with Aho.

They put them back together right out of the gate here. They score 66 seconds in, really create the two goals in the first four minutes. And I have a lot of notes on those as well. I thought Stankovin's goal was kind of cool. to your point on the face-offs, he goes head-to-head against Eichael there after an icing by the Golden Knights, and he ties up Eichael enough to allow Blake to come in,

and we've talked about how Blake is already one of the best players in the league. It's sort of fishing out those 50-50 bucks. He just beats Anderson to it, and then Chatfield kind of indirect pass off the N-wall, and I think it was a purposeful decision by him because it was so far wide, and he wasn't even really kind of looking at the net that I think he was just, you know,

trying to hope for for something good to happen and it bounces right out front to stankov and he converts it and then on the next shift he causes a turnover to defensive zone blue line him and hall go down two on two yes uh hall draws the penalty on theodore which upon replay was almost certainly a bad call because he really held theodore stick and then kind of obstructed himself on the way uh but it was sort of shielded from the refs so they couldn't see what actually caused it and then they score at the end that one and I thought it was notable that you know I really have not liked Niketian's shot selection in this series

he kind of he takes one initially but then he has another opportunity instead of wasting a lower percentage shot he gets it over to Eelers for a scoring chance and then sets up Eelers again who works it down to Hall and he goes cross-ice to Blake for a nicely executed goal and

you know that has been a big storyline in this series the power play production because heading in we talked about how we didn't expect much of anything for either team, but if someone was going to have an advantage, it would probably be the Golden Knights because they had more weaponry or optionality atop their lineup with their five forward unit. And they've scored one power play goal so far the Golden Knights have. I guess a second one if you want to include the MT Netter Stone scores at the end of game

too because it was kind of a six on four and the Hurricanes skater just left the box. But the Hurricanes have created five of them now if you include this Blake one that really was a five-on-four goal. And so them kind of carving out some additional offense there and really beating the Golden Knights at their own game has been a big part of why they've tied this series of two. Massive. And I can't overstate how cool it is to see Taylor Hall

in such a prominent role at 34. And don't get me wrong, I know that he had a good season. I know that pretty much since he arrived in Carolina, it's been a great fit. And props to Eric Tulski and his team for identifying a player that would just seamlessly transition. But it's really cool where his career arc, it seemed like he was sort of heading towards, or was in the middle of, I should say,

just bouncing around the league and trying to find utility on, you know, the Blackhawks. And, you know, he spent some time with the Sabres and just sort of like, you know, in the wilderness, so to speak, and looking for that cup or looking for that deep run. And he's finally founded here. And, you know, if you think about like the whole Taylor Hall versus Tyler Segan draft discussion, like trying to picture Taylor, Tyler Segan having this type of impact where he is at his career versus what Taylor Hall is doing. It's it's almost you almost can't compute it like just in terms of where their careers have gone in their 30s.

And I understand Sagan's had a bunch of injuries. Yeah, I was going to say I think Sagan probably would be doing this if his body would just comply. But unfortunately it's kind of failed in the past couple years. Yeah. Second aside, I just think it's really cool. A guy who won a hard trophy in this sort of like controversial way, but hasn't had a ton of team success. And like I said before, like the chemistry with Stankov and Blake and Hall is not some like,

you know, lightning at a bottle thing. Like it's, it's legit. And I would imagine it's going to continue here at the end of the series to end the series and moving forward. So he's really found a home there. And at one point, it seemed like he was more destined for like a fourth line role across the league to end his career. So really cool. Yeah, that Hurricanes line combined for six scoring chances, in the first period, I thought they were excellent in setting the tone in this game. Hall gets the breakaway coming out of the box at the end of the first that he doesn't convert on. He kind of very purposefully seemed to be trying to fly the zone and create more of those opportunities

throughout this game. You know, Blake just missed him on one with an indirect pass off the boards. He would have been sent free for another one in the first, but Dylan Coglin got in the way and broke it up in the last second. And that's probably like four or five goals already in this series, that Dylan Coglin has saved, he's arguably been the best goalie for either team in this matchup. Stankovin also draws a penalty later, kind of beating Nick Dowd to a puck. And I was thinking about how, you know, part of what's made him so special early in his

NHL career beyond, you know, being such an undersized center and how rare that is in today's game, it feels like he takes so much punishment and his durability amidst that has been impressive. like he just always pops back up and goes out there for the next shift and it's never one of those like see like a smaller guy can't handle the physicality of the bigger players this time of year like he's responded to it very well and initiates it very often himself but is a very willing participant in my last note on that goal I did notice that you know the goldenites start this game splitting up their second and third pair um and they play rasmus anderson with lozon and they play hanafififes with Coglin. And I think that was in line with my expectation because, you know, Haniffin gets banged up halfway through game three and winds up not taking his

regular amount of shifts. I think he plays only 11 minutes after he comes back despite that game going into double overtime. And I had heard from a source very privy to the situation, not to pretend I'm an insider, but some concern about his either availability or how limited he'd be because, like, he was pretty banged up after that coming out of that. game. Now they got the benefit of the extra day off between game three and four. And so he was still able to play 20 minutes in this game. But I imagine the Golden Knights shared that sentiment because

that's why they split it up. And it immediately led to a goal against and they quickly scrapped those plans. And we're like, you know what? We're just putting Aniffin back on Anderson pair because he needs him. And the stats in this series reflect that. There's 24 minutes of Lowe's on in Anderson. They're already given up four goals against in that time, five on five. In Anderson, 51 other minutes with Hannafin, they're up 3-0. And so they quickly realized they just could not get away with that type of formation. And Hannafin was able to hold up. So I think that bodes well for him moving forward in this series.

Do you want to talk Mark Stone if we're going chronologically here? Because after it was 2-0, his breakaways and ultimately the 2-1 goal were a big part of the story. Yeah, if the first game was the Nikolai Eilers experience, even though Carolina end up losing. This was the Mark Stone experience, even though Vegas ended up losing. Like, you know, he somehow outskates everyone on the first breakaway. Like, you know, he's one of the slowest skaters in the league. And somehow, some way, his roots, his sort of decision-making. I just, I feel like his timing is just perfect on so many levels. And you just see it throughout the game. And obviously, this isn't exclusive to game four. This is a guy who's very consistent.

but it was it was on full display in game four and he gets that second breakaway where you know we talked earlier about stall's physicality and sort of like his strength i mean stone happened to knock him down which is a pretty big feat and then i i found it funny where stones moving up the ice as vagus starts transitioning and he looks at the bench the vagus bench to sort of see okay should i change and he just sort of like hesitates and he's like i'll stay on let's see what happens here and then he sort of tiptoes to the offensive blue line and Theodore hits him with like legitimately 10 out of 10 pass and you know Stone fakes a slap shot

has this tremendous deak boom two one goal I just love how he tested Bussie's athleticism there and he sort of made him pay for being aggressive like that's kind of the move if the goal he's being aggressive to sort of just like outweighed him or to I guess being a little bit of being aggressive. aggressive in your own way of taking it hard to the net. So I love that.

And I have like five different other sequences that we can talk about relating to Stone, but I don't know if you want to jump in on those two breakways. Well, the game within the game, only the true nerds are going to appreciate this. But in the game three post game, I kind of highlighted where like two minutes into Bussie's debut in this series, Stone intercepts a neutral zone pass and goes in alone and from 20 feet out, just hammers an F-U slap shot that Bussie just narrowly gets with his stick.

And then he comes down on this one and he once again sells that slap shot from in tight. And I think that's partly why Bussie bites on it the way he does and really executes the Jason Spetsam move that he made so famous with the fake slapper and kind of tucking it past the sprawled. Goalie, yeah, it's incredible that

a guy this slow is so often in a loan, Even in game three, he scores the disallowed goal on the offside, bursting in through the middle, in alone against Freddie Anderson at the time. And, you know, beautiful defensive play short-handed against Aho to kind of read him like a book and intercept that pass as he's trying to go across the blue line and then beats everyone down the ice. I thought Aho, despite that mistake, did a good job of coming back and preventing the Haniff and follow-up after Bussie stopped the first shot. And then that's who won, just a beautiful pass by Theodore. that was an incredible stretch pass and Slaven is kind of flat-footed

leaning the wrong way and I know Hurricanes fans have been pointing out how like despite how remarkable Slaven's been defensively yet again and his stick being so a lead and when he's able to kind of latch onto you he's a nightmare defensively the ability

to kind of turn defensively and recover on some of those plays where he has to sprint have not been as crisp this season and that was one of those where he got burnt on it And yeah, the rush opportunities in general, like some of the great A's on these quick counters have been a big story throughout this series, right? We saw it throughout this game. There was those two stone opportunities.

Hall gets his breakaway at the end of the period. You know, the Golden Knights scored their two goals in the second period off of rush counter opportunities essentially. And so that continues to be a bit of an issue for the hurricanes in terms of getting back with the right configuring. and, you know, on the Carlson goal, like, it's not an effort thing, as the broadcast pointed out. Like, they got back in time. If anything, they wildly overcommitted to the back check and just got themselves out of position. It didn't cover the trailer. But they're going to need to be careful moving forward in this series because despite the puck possession and shot volume and everything, like this Golden Knights team, when there's an opportunity to get out in transition is so lethal at finding the guy and finding the open ice and then attacking from there. Absolutely. stones, the amount of little slip plays he does in transition, usually to Ikel because they have

such a good connection, I find awesome. And again, this happens all the time, but it was really on display in game four. And just to hit on some of the other things you were talking about there, like that hand eye that he had early in the second where he knocks down, you know, was it Ajo who was making this entry pass? I can't remember exactly who it wasn't on the hurricanes, but like, it was one of those plays where you're watching it and it's almost like if it wasn't Mark Stone you're like oh they're going to expose this

forward coming back right now it's basically a two on one because Stone was faced the wrong way and then he's sort of in the middle of transitioning he just waxed the puck out of the air and it would have been potentially a breakaway for the the hurricanes and I just love how he does that with such

grace if you will and subtlety and it's just so routine for him to be sort of proactive in that way. And he's just so good at anticipating point shots too in terms of his net front presence. There's some overlap there with stall and being the two captains that plant themselves

in front of the net and try to cause havoc. And then the last thing on Stone in terms of specific plays was he had this takeaway on the power play where he lifts Martinuk's stick at Carolina's blue line. And then they quickly counter. It's like a tick-tac-toe between him Eichel and Dorofiev and Dorofiev can't really get a great shot off.

I thought that was another illustrative play where it's like, yeah, Mark Stone's on one tonight and he's really, you know, trying to power this offense. And I also love there was a quote relayed through the Sportsnet broadcast about, I didn't, I didn't catch it beforehand, but I guess Tortoralla called Stone a caveman with a club, which I thought was great in terms of describing his stick. And, you know, usually we try to deal. we usually default to like, oh, he's got a pool cue out there, but I love the idea of a club because he's, you know, he's this sort of disheveled-looking guy and he, you know,

he has terrible skating, but he like somehow gets it all done with this massive stick. He's just like, he's really the hockey player's hockey player, like in terms of being this savant of the game and not needing the physical skills, the skating or say like a super hard shot, but he just, he always just figures it out. Yeah, in game three, I thought his physicality was impressive. He had that one shift where he just dropped Jarvis twice in his own and was throwing the body around. And this game did it with more precision. But yeah, those takeaways where he bats down a pass, I think what makes them doubly lethal for the other team is it's not just that he intercepts a potentially dangerous pass, but the technique with which he doesn't, where he's as he's backtracking defensively, once he knocks it down, it's not like he then has to nest in a,

gather and he's facing the wrong way and at least you're in a good position to defend against whatever is next like he kind of like knocks it down as he's spinning around and so he's able to be then facing the right way and then immediately sends a pass to someone to catch you off guard so I thought him and jackson Blake were probably the two most dangerous players in this game honestly I know stall as we talked about off the top scores of two goals and was the most important player and there were a bunch of strong individuals individual performances in this one, but I thought both guys were creating a ton in their shifts and deserve recognition for it. John, let's take our break here and squeeze in a quick little

break. And then when we come back, we're going to jump right back in and close out with the rest of our notes and thoughts coming out of this game four. You're listening to the Hockey P.D.O. gas streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. All right, we're back here in the Hockeypedia podcast, joined by John Mattis. We're doing our postgame show for game four of the Stanley Cup final. Before we go into the rest of our notes, we were talking about Mark Stone right before I went to break. know you wanted to quickly close the loop on that with one more anecdote. So I'll give you the floor here. Yeah, I wrote this long feature about Mark Stone seven years ago.

It was pretty much right when he got acquired by the Golden Knights. And I ended up talking to his parents for the piece. And his dad told me that when Mark was like five, 10 years old in that range, he'd always beg his parents to buy like the sort of DVD or VHS. I'm not quite sure. I guess it would have been DVD tapes of his minor hockey games. So anyone who's played minor hockey or youth hockey in the States, knows that there's these companies that show up and they film you and then you know it's kind of it's

I wouldn't say it's a scam but it's sort of like hey watch your shifts over five year old um and so I guess he'd always beg his parents like we need to buy this I need to be sort of reviewing my tape and so they do that of course let's feed into his his passion for hockey and I guess when they went to the brick tournament the famous tournament in edmonton where it's a 10 year olds and it's basically like this like worldly tournament where all the best plays players are there. You know, hey, they got the tapes then. And his dad told me that they, they bought all the tapes for Mark Stone and Michael Stone, his older brother. And the only person who's ever watched them, including Michael's games, is Mark. Like, even to this day, like,

it's just hilarious to think about Mark Stone, 10-year-old Mark Stone, like, just went through a weekend of hockey. It's like Monday morning or something. And he's just putting in the DVD and he's got his notebook out and he's studying the game. Like it obviously makes sense. It tracks what the type of player he is today. But I love that it was just like innately, I guess, in him to be this obsessive sort of analyst of the game. And, you know, anytime I've talked to him over the years, like he's a very like logical

sort of like straightforward guy. Like, you know, anyone who's been around enough engineers, you know, there's a certain sort of brain for people who become engineers. I feel like Mark Stone is one of those people. And yeah, I just love that it goes way back to when he was five, 10 years old. And even compared to his brother, who is also a future NHLR, really stood out in terms of his studious, you know, aspect of this personality. So second period of this game, you know, coming out of the first, the shots were 14 to 6 for the Hurricanes. They were up 3-1.

I still felt, and this is in hindsight, like I had a. in my notes that I felt like it was a precarious position because despite that lack of volume really for the Golden Knights, like I thought they were far more dangerous than the numbers might have reflected. And, you know, they get the two stone breakaways door. If you have had a couple opportunities in a loan from down low against Bussy. Howden, I believe, tips a McNabb point shot off the post. They score as the buzzer expires to still keep it at 3-1. But McNabb beats Bussie moving laterally off a, you know, that sequence was a mess for the hurricanes because they have the breakaway by Hall that could stretch the lead to 4-1, it gets stopped. Then a seemingly harmless

play with like 13 seconds left and the clock dying. Slaven goes on his backhand and his clearing attempt gets cut off and we've talked about how some of his exits and retrievals have been a bit of an issue for them in this series. And then the Golden Knights cycle to puck around Hanepin goes to McNabb. And he scores like, what, two or three tenths of a second after the clock expired. and then the Goldenites, as they've done throughout this series, just come out and dominate the second period. The shots and chances were closer than they've been in the first three games, but up to nothing, I think they're up 9-1 now in goals in the second period,

and both off those counter-opportunities we described, where a marner exit into an entry quickly leads to a Carlson goal as a trailer. And then the second one, like Walker comes down and sort of wastes a low-percentage rush shot that gets blocked and rims around, and it quickly leads to Howden, you know, dragging and ripping the puck past Bussie, and all of a sudden it's 3-3. And as I said with Hartman after game three, I don't really have anything that thoughtful to add in terms of like what's going on in these second periods beyond, I guess,

either adjustments coming out of the first in terms of like kind of recalibrating to what the hurricanes are doing right out of the gate or, you know, the longer change, sometimes exposing some of these on-man rush opportunities, because guys are either tired or out of position or you have different combinations out there. But whatever the root of it is, the hurricanes need to figure it out because all of these, all four of these second periods have been very decidedly in favor of the Golden Knights. And it feels like the games are kind of swinging on a dime there. Yeah, I'm usually not a fan of the sort of period by period stat breakdowns because they sometimes are just like complete noise.

But I feel like in this instance, there may be something going on. I don't know what that is, but it is a little strange and concerning if you're the hurricanes. And another thing is, and this is something we've sort of touched on in passing throughout this episode, like it seems like Carolina's blue line has been pretty overwhelming. Beyond Gossis Bear, like Gossus Bear has been pretty incredible throughout this postseason and especially in the series where conversely you've got like, Nekishin seems, I don't know, maybe a little overwhelmed. I think Chadfield's been fine, but then you keep going down the list.

And as you mentioned, Slavin, like parts of his game is typical Slavin and parts, including his mobility, maybe not so much. And I don't know, like that Miller-Walker pairing was so impressive coming into the Cup final. But I feel like they've struggled in this series. And I don't even know if it's like necessarily poor play versus more like getting frustrated. I find Miller's had a rough series in terms of like taking penalties that maybe he thought weren't penalties or just kind of closer to the fluky side. It's like a trip when the puck's right there, something like that. And he's been on the ice for a fair amount of goals against. Like there was some buzz about Miller being a cons smyth contender coming in and I feel like that's completely disappeared.

So I think a theme of this series has been how the Hurricanes Blue Line has tapered off and become less of a factor on wins. and losses. Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, that Walker, Miller, to your point, has been on the ice. I don't have it up in front of me, but like at least five, five on five goals against and kind of been losing that. Despite having strong moments, I thought even in this game, like Walker had a couple of plays, I think in the second period where like he steps up and makes a play with his physicality and then transitions the puck and it's a promising opportunity. But then there's been a lot of times where either the two of them have been so close together in their rush defense that it's left them exposed with wide open ice for someone like how to escape into

or Walker's shot selection in the offensive zone has left a lot to be desired. And so it's kind of gotten them into trouble. But yeah, I don't know what to make of the second period. And I'm generally with you in terms of those trends. Like I hate like the home road power play splits and stuff like that because a lot of it is like hindsight, random stuff and certainly more descriptive than predictive, but we're through four games right now where all of them have followed the exact same beats in terms of what these second periods have looked like. We've got to talk goalies a little bit because Brandon Bussie replaces Freddie Anderson in the third period of game three when it's four nothing and stops the first 18 shots he faces, including a bunch of really

high-danger ones in alone, and then unfortunately gets beaten in the second overtime with that bounce off the end wall. They choose to go with him as the starter in game four. Freddie Anderson doesn't even back him up. It's Prater Ketchikov. Anderson, I'm not sure if he's still feeling ill effects of that collision with Barbashav that he took to the head or if it is purely a reset in terms of just giving him time off in case they need him later in this series.

But he was out of the equation. And, you know, Bussie's final stat line doesn't look that impressive. There was a point in the second period. after the Houghton goal where he had given up three goals on like 11 or 12 shots he'd faced, yet the Golden Knights were clearly creating more chances than that shot total indicated. And he really stepped up, I thought, in the third period when it was still 3-3. And then after the hurricanes went up with some big stops against Vegas' best players, a couple looks in a loan.

And I generally kind of prefer his skill set, I think, to Freddie Anderson's in this, matchup because of the lower volume, higher quality looks that are going to require either more size or athleticism. And I thought his aggression on a lot of the plays, like kind of coming out and trying to cut off the angle was notable to me. And I like what I saw from the third period. So I assume there's no reason to switch it going back home into game five.

And we'll see if he's going to be able to be up to the task again because this series has been very, very rough for the goalies. Oh, yeah. but I think you hit the nail in the head there where I was even thinking during game four I'm like should they have started Bussie you know from game one just in terms of the stylistic fit where Anderson and we saw him get exposed in game one right like we talked about on this program how they all of Vegas's goals were like one-timer sort of quick reflex type of save opportunities and Anderson wasn't up for the task and mind you like they were like really high quality

chances for the most part like you know inner slot shots but still that's that's that's more bussey's game him you know reacting to something quick and Vegas having to maybe get creative like mark stone did on that goal where he deeked them out and so it i also find it like really interesting and i would love to be a fly on the wall for pre-scouts in terms of how Vegas is approaching bussey versus Anderson and you know them being such different goaltender stylistically it doesn't you know I'm sure there were no major changes but I wonder if if there was a pretty extensive video session just breaking down tendencies and the fact that you know one is more of a blocking goalie and one is this this super athletic guy who you know obviously isn't a perfect goalie otherwise he would have

started game one and would have you know won the Vezna this year or whatever um So there are some weaknesses there, but, you know, Bussy, like, there's just no denying that he's been the most impressive goalie in this series, even though he's had limited action. And at the same time, that's not like a huge compliment because I feel like Hart's really disappointed. And obviously Anderson, you know, ends up getting pulled here and may not see another minute. The goaltending in this series has been so much worse than you might even think on initial glance looking at the numbers. Hart has an 861 say percentage on the 115 shots he's face the Hurricanes goalies have combined for an 848

on 105 shots he faced and I wanted to put my money where my mouth is because I've been talking throughout about my frustration with the league's tracking of these shots because it felt like they were over-inflating those counts by including like dump-ins and stuff like that that wasn't even really a threat to score

and so in preparation for today's show I went back and looked through the four games. They've added 18 shots on goal to the hurricanes count and 13 to the Golden Knights on shots that were either entirely out of the offensive zone or like flubbed shots from the offensive zone that were trickling towards the net and would have almost certainly just been knocked away before they went in by a defenseman if the net was literally empty. So the goalie didn't have to do anything on it. And so you take those away and it's an 826% in this series on actual shots for the Hurricanes goalies and then an 835 say percentage for Carter Hard. And it's been absolutely hideous.

And then even including some of the low dangerous stuff, like a lot, the hurricanes have patted their totals a lot with that with like slave and shots. I can think of at least a handful even in game four where he's kind of all on the boards and he just fires a weak one on net. And so a lot of that stuff is making it look even better than it is, despite how ugly the totals are. And so, yeah, it's certainly been an offense first series.

I mean, we've got, what, 33 goals through these four games, 32 if you exclude that last empty netter. And that definitely goes against, I think, what our general expectations we're heading in. And the shot thing doesn't make a ton of sense to me in terms of the theme of this season has been goalies complaining about not getting credited for. saves because dump-ins aren't considered shots. And hey, you know, that guy who accidentally made a shot pass, like was trying to make a pass and ended up hitting you in the pads, okay, we're not counting that. Like I've had conversations myself with goalies who are like,

listen, say percentages are already down. And it's already kind of making things a little crooked in terms of my box score and my counting stats. And then now they're taking away shots. So it's interesting that you went back and they, seem to be adding shots in or at least going back to the old way of counting in the final. Yeah. I think both these teams block such a high percentage of shots that there's probably, you know,

the same amount that you could add to a goalies total that they probably would have stopped, but a defender just got in the way and kind of absorbed them before it got there. But yeah, like realistically, 60 or 17% of all shots that are making it on net that are actual shots are going in in this series, which is remarkable, really. I mean, in line with a lot of the stats that are like, this is the first time this has happened since 1979. It's like, yeah, this is, this has generally been 1979 hockey in 2026 in terms of the efficiency offensively and then the level of goal tending we're seeing from both sides. But it's remarkable how tight it is. I think very fitting that it's two to going into game five.

Goals 16, 16, excluding the empty netter by the hurricanes, expected goals, the corner natural statrick, 12.9 for the hurricanes, 12.8. for the Golden Knights, high danger chances, 51 to 51 apiece, and then all situations chances by my count, 82 to 90 for the Golden Knights. So it has been very tight. I did also break down the goals in terms of how they're created, and just to kind of close the loop on what the point you made earlier, three goals out of the 16 for the hurricanes have come off of face-offs, which I think has been notable, five off the four check,

three off the rush and five on the power play. I don't think they've created a single goal off of a conventional kind of in-zone cycle. And then by comparison, the Golden Knights, six cycle goals, seven off the rush, two power play, one off the four check. So it's interesting that it's so even

and both teams are creating a high volume of quality looks, yet they're doing it in very different ways. Let's close with a couple quick look-aheads to game five of the series on Thursday night. either guys that need to step up or be more efficient or, you know, we talked about Ikel and some of the flaws in his game through these four. I mean, you could include Svetnikov in here. Like, I don't know if you noticed this, but his usage dropped to 1255 total ice time in game four, which only the fourth line on the hurricanes played less.

And he winds up with two shot attempts, none on net was largely a non-factor. they're down 4-0 in his 5-on-5 minutes in this series. So I think they clearly need more out of him. And you know, you could lump in Aho there as well, although I think at least with Ajo, like some of the special team stuff he's done, has provided utility and he made some big plays at the end of game three. But yeah, I'd be like such to golf as even when he's not producing,

at least you could say, well, you know, he's flying around out there. He's hitting guys. He's causing changes of possession. He's getting looks on net. that has dried up as well in this game for i'll throw a couple of uh golden nights at you so i've been really impressed with dorofiev and how much of a menace he's become in the ozone and we've we talked about this last time but like he's really driving play now he's you know stealing puck he's making all these power moves i feel like the goals haven't quite caught up to him

in terms of the quality of chances and just you know the guy's a sniper first and foremost but then he's added these layers to his game and i'm not not saying he's had a bad playoff because he certainly hasn't but i feel like you know the finishing will come at sort of a greater more efficient uh level i think um although we are running out of games in this in this playoff the other guy and this is totally like based on vibes but like i sense a big barbachev game incoming in terms of like he had these disallowed goals earlier in the series you know whether this is more him overreacting or or sort of legitimate concern he's gotten like really upset over like non-calls on penalties.

Like I feel like he thinks the hockey gods are against them right now. So I wonder if, if something's going to turn there. Yeah, Dorothea has done a lot of the details, right? But he needs a goal. I think 18 attempts, nine scoring chances and hasn't scored.

You know, Sisson set him up for a couple in game four and he didn't convert. He had that one on the power play off the Tic-Tac toe you described. And he kind of just doesn't really get a lot on it. And it's a pretty routine save for Bussie, despite looking dangerous. Yeah,

the barbershev note is interesting because I do wonder and it might be tougher to do it more reliably on the road whether we see more of Marner playing with Stone and Eichael with the Golden Knights trying to get Eichael going a little bit of 515. You know, we saw a little bit at the end of game three and then more of it at the end of game four because of them needing a goal. But I wonder if we'll see more of those shifts sprinkled in and then kind of everyone's usage is a bit wonky as a result of that. Typically it means like Dorothea, if you haven't heard, I'll aren't playing as much, but obviously Barbishab getting bumped off the line would decrease his exposure a little bit.

And in this third period of game four, like they rode those top guys quite a bit, right? I think Marner, Eichel, Stone, and Theodore all played like nearly 10 minutes of the 20 in the third period. And so I'm kind of curious to see what that looks like with a quick turnaround. Like the two teams are traveling back to Raleigh and they're playing 48 hours later.

Yeah, I think that's a fair show. My last note is the hurricanes needing to keep their third pair away from the Vegas top six. And Rod Brinemore did a great job of that in this game four, despite being on the road. I think there was only 48 seconds of the Keish and Gossesberg against Marner. And after game three, I noted with Harmon that they've been on the ice for three goals against and eight minutes against them. And so that will certainly need to continue heading into game five and the rest of this series. You know, Rod Brindamore after game four, he had that quote where he got asked. if he's enjoying this series.

And he said, not really. It's pretty stressful. On the one hand, it's relatable. On the other hand, I am quite enjoying this series. And it has been great theater with so many twists and turns and drama and goal scoring. And so if we get three more games of this and we're at least insured a game six after this game four result, I will be pretty pleased.

And I'm looking forward to it. Honestly, the only critique of the series is the goaltending, but it's worked in such a positive favor where it's allowed for these lead. or not a bug? Yeah, exactly. It's like, normally I'd be like, can they make a save? But it's like the way that it's allowed teams to march back has been really interesting. Like there hasn't just been big comebacks.

It's been like big comebacks with like a really short period of time. It's like, hey, you know, this team just scored three goals in the last four minutes. Hey, this team scored two goals in 39 seconds. I just, I love that aspect of it, the counterpunch. Yeah. I guess the last note is, you know, we didn't really talk on Smyth much in terms of an update coming out of game four, but I did want to note that Marner is still the prohibitive favorite

and deservedly so, despite the Golden Knights being a slight underdog now with the series even in two of the final three games in Carolina, up to 29 points with another assist here in game four, which is, you know, if he gets a couple more, he's going to be like in the top 10 of high scoring post seasons in the past 25 years and has 28 chance contributions in four games

and no one else even has 20. So he's clearly, been the biggest driver. But beyond that, if the hurricanes win, I'm fascinated by this. And it's one of the most interesting storylines in terms of projecting what it's going to look like, right? Because Stankovin and Hall are essentially lumped together next up. Then there's a big gap until Jackson Blake.

And you can make an argument that he might deserve it more than those two guys on his own line, considering how good he's been. And then you get all of a sudden getting this dark horse Jordan Stahl bid. And, you know, if it was the NBA and it was a finals award as opposed to a full encompassing postseason. That would be an even stronger case, but it's going to be hard to argue with if the hurricanes win and he scores another couple goals and shuts down Ikel and wins 70% of his draws and kills penalties and produces him the power play.

Like he's kind of doing it all for them right now. So if you're trying to figure out how the hurricanes won, it kind of at this point needs to start with Jordan Stahl looking like a 20-year-old version of himself, essentially. Yeah, I would lean Stahl if I was going with a Hurricanes player right now. And I think overall, though, you know, it's Marner's trophy to lose. And even if like, let's say the Hurricanes win in six and Marner gets a couple more points and Stahl doesn't go off and it's just sort of a team effort to lead the Hurricanes to victory, I think it's it's probably Marner's, or at least it should be.

But I think if Stahl continues to put the team on his back in the way that he has, even though it'll be heavily weighted on his final performance, his cup final performance, I think it'll still be deserved if that makes sense. Like, it's not like he was bad in the first three rounds by any means. And I just think that he's like just this classic Hurricanes player, you know, sort of DNA, like, you know, hurricanes DNA all over him and just like a driver of the culture.

And I just think it's like really a neat story, a neat package. And the voters would sort of eat that up. And it would be deserved too. Like let's be honest here. Like there's a reason why there's more emphasis on what you do in the cup final. It's because, you know, this is when you need to step up the most. And no one's done it better than stall at this point. Well, a lot of work to be done between now and then for everyone involved.

And we've got game five on Thursday night. We'll be back here on this feed on Friday morning with another show breaking all of that down. So looking forward to that, I will let you plug whatever you want on the way out. You got anything to promote at this point, or is it still kind of status quo? No, yeah. Like, I'm going to be doing some writing for Puckpedia over the next month or so around the draft and free agency. So really looking forward to that. I heard you're going to be doing some writing for the Patreon newsletter as well.

This is true. I know this is the second time that I put on my insider hat during the show. But sources are telling me that. So we will see on that. And I'm sure we're going to have you back on the program here again soon. So enjoy the rest of this final in the meantime. If you dug today's episode and the chat I had with John Mattis, give us a five-star review where we listen.

If you want to get some more writing from Mattis in the future, but also extra shows. And we did a show with Jack Fraser this past weekend. Sean Shapiro recently branching out from the Stanley Cup final a little bit and talking about Dylan Larkin and some of the other storylines around the league, subscribe to the PDOCAST Patreon, and get those episodes on that feed. That is all from us for today. Thank you for listening to the HockeyPedioCast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.