The Hockey PDOcast - Takeaways from Stars vs. Golden Knights Game 1

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Sean Shapiro to break down last night's Stars vs. Golden Knights Game 1. They discuss their biggest takeaways from the series opener, including the things that Vegas did well, the questions that remain, and what Dallas can do to adjust offensively. Then they cover the rest of the biggest talking points from Monday night's games, including Auston Matthews' monster performance, the Bruins alternating goalies, Carolina's comeback, and the Oilers ripping the Kings apart.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey P.D.O.cast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey-Ocast. My name is Dimitri Philipovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Sean, and Shapiro. Sean, what's going on, man? Not too much, bud. I've got my, I've got my cup of coffee going, I've seen some hockey last night, and happy to talk more with you. So, let's do it. Well, I'm doing even better. You got a cup of coffee. I got my, and people can't see this. I'll tweet out the picture of it. I've got a Yaroslav Asker. This is brilliant radio and podcasting material, but I have to show you. I'm flashing you my Yaroslav Ascaro, bench press bobblehead that the Milwaukee

admirals did this season after he, of course, did it in his rookie year. And the reason why I'm pointing this out is because you got one from the admirals. And then you were flaunting it to me in the DMs, rubbing it in, talking about how cool it was. And you know what? This is what good friends are for because I reached out to our pal, Willie Donick, who obviously is one of the best play-by-play guys in the biz. for the predators on Bally and predators in town here playing the Canucks. And so we grabbed lunch yesterday.

And he, sure enough, pulls out this Yaroslav Ascaro Bobohead and he's like, I got something for you. And so I wanted to give him a shout out because he obviously does a phenomenal job, but also because this is one of the coolest bits of promotion and marketing that I think a team's done. I've got mine on my shelf right over here next to the old, like, vintage, like John Van Biesbroly basketball, like a long time as a kid that has stayed with me forever. So it's, I didn't know, it was, I'm glad I'm doing it in the office today because it's, it's, uh, bring your asker off, a paraphernalia to work day. I'm glad. And that's, that's, that's one of the greatest, uh, like, lunch things ever, lunch or beer, whatever you guys are getting when someone says, I got something

for you. Like, that's, that's a prize right there. That's a good one. It was pretty clutch. I told him he's my favorite, he's my early favor for cons might. So we'll obviously see how, uh, the rest of the post season goes, but he's got a leg up on a competition. Yeah. And speaking of that series, I just wanted a housekeeping note off the top. Apologies for a no new show on the feed on Monday following the first weekend of the postseason. If you are in the PDO guys Discord, you know this by now, but I just wanted everyone to listens to know. I actually recorded a full episode breaking down game one of Canucks Predators with Thomas Drance on Monday morning. And then after we finished, we found out that the recording hadn't actually gone through.

I think we got only 11 minutes over or so, so we wound up scrapping the abbreviated file. But that's okay. We'll circle back to that series, I'm sure, here shortly. And just like any team that goes through some early postseason lumps, we've got to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps, bounce back, and redeem ourselves here. So that's what we're going to try to do today. You and I are going to talk about the stars Golden Knights game one right off the top because it's fresh on our mind. It happened last night. I think it delivered in terms of storylines and drama and obviously how tight it was being a one goal game. And even when the Golden Knights were up to at various points, it still never felt like the stars were obviously out of it.

Like they are really trading punches back and forth. So we're going to unpack all of that here. What are your thoughts on that? Because now the ratings are limited, you kind of have the luxury of really covering the stars again, essentially, which is great for all of us that enjoy your work and want to follow that team. What were your thoughts kind of in that game, how it played out, what the vibe should be like exiting game one and entering game two of the rest of the series? So fun fact, it's funny that you talked about the Predators earlier. The Stars haven't won a true game one of a playoff series in front of fans since 2019 in Nashville, against Nashville. They won game ones in the bubble in COVID, but the stars between Rick Bonas, Pete DeBore, I guess Jim Montgomery did win a home.

But like, it's funny. It's, it's, it's, we, it's kind of baked into the star's DNA that every single series in the past couple of years, they're always down, oh, one in the series. So it's, I don't know why we should have expected anything else, I guess. But for me, this was kind of one of those weird games where, like, I'm hearing the broadcast and they're talking all about Vegas playing Vegas hockey and everything like that. And to an extent to Vegas was. but you can't tell me that Vegas hockey is 15 shots on goal. You can't tell me that Vegas hockey is getting your game winning goal on a fluky one that either deflects or screens off Amir O'Higkin and Jake Ottinger.

So to me, it was a game where I thought Dallas was the better team. I thought Vegas had its three moments that needed. And then basically just went to like old man beer league hockey style where we'll just keep you to the outside and we don't really need to move our legs right now. That's kind of what it felt like to me. Yeah, that's certainly what it felt like to me too. It's tough to know, right?

Because they came out, Vegas came out of the gate looking much faster than I expected them to in this series and maybe even faster than Dallas expected them to. They almost caught off guard with how much speed they were flying through the neutral zone with. I had the final, like I had Vegas with 11 scoring chances for the game. We'll get into how many Dallas had in a second. I have 5-15, I should say.

Vegas had 11 scoring chances. I'd wager, I don't have in front of me. I'd wager seven or eight of them were in the first period. Like they came out. They had a bunch of scoring chances. They actually did look like that was Vegas hockey because they were like quickly turning sort of 50, 50 bucks in the neutral zone into three on two rush chances.

Even after the first goal, I think. Eichol gets a puck like off the wall at center ice right off the draw. And all of a sudden they have another three on two opportunity. And they get a rush chance out of it. And that's when they're at their scariest. We didn't see that the rest of the way. I would say, though, that defensively, it did look like Vegas hockey. And the reason why I note that is there were the team that conceded the fewest number of inner slot shots this season.

And we've spoken at length about how that's by design. In this game, shot attempts for 68 to 48 Dallas, shots on goal 30 to 15. But at 5 on 5, I had Dallas with just 10 scoring chances of their own. and that's in 52 and a half minutes of game time. And this is a Starz team that generates scoring chances in a variety of ways in high volume. They live in that high danger area. And they weren't really able to get in there for pretty much any extended period of this game. And so I thought there was a bunch of things that Vegas did defensively that actually would concern me from a Star's perspective.

But obviously, in totality, when you view the game, I think there's a lot to build on if you're Pete DeBore right now because it's like, all right, well, if we keep playing this way for the rest of the series, we have to feel good about our chances because you're right. Vegas sort of got that lead, and then it was just white knuckling it essentially through the finish line. Yeah, there's certain things where if you're Dallas, you go through and you got to assess and figure out how you get to get back to the slot. How do you start getting some of those second pucks that you used to basically get all season that you're not getting?

And I think that's definitely a concern for Dallas. It's, it's, for me, though, kind of the bigger thing that was just Vegas's first period, obviously had the chances, as you said, what, seven or eight scoring chances in the first period? Something similar around that, too. From the rest of the way, like, and maybe it's, I don't know if I'm lying to myself and it's the narrative of it's Vegas, but like, I remember watching them Vegas in the playoffs last year, right? And the team had the, they didn't really do the bunker down thing. They had the, they ripped you apart. Like they weren't, they didn't, they didn't play with their food.

They just ripped you apart. And it's to see Vegas kind of just, maybe that's a testament to Dallas pushing back. Maybe that's a, maybe that's say, maybe it was, you get all these guys off injured reserve, get returned and they hit the dead sprint and they got to have hit a slight jog in the second period. Maybe it's that. But to me, it wasn't the, like, I didn't, you. I didn't, going through and saying like, oh, this is the Vegas team that won the cup last year. Like, I, the Vegas team that won the cup last year to me, they, they ripped teams apart. They didn't play with their food. And this Vegas team kind of played with their food until Dallas got back into it and picked

to prod it a little bit. And obviously some help from pretty howler of a goal by the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, Marchman goal was, yeah. So. Well, I guess the reason why I framed it as I'm not sure is because I can, like, that's an equivocally correct what you just said. I'm just not sure how much of it was this being a team that clearly showed it still has some semblance of that juice you're describing from last season based on the first 10 minutes

they played in this game where they like almost showed you like, yeah, we still got our basketball. And then when it faded as the game went along, how much of that was sort of this general concept of score effects, them realizing that they had a lead and they were just going to try to milk this through to the finish line and how much of it was the reality that they actually can't sustain that for a full game for a variety of reasons should also note, and part of this kind of factors into your framing of this series, this is like the first game that this team has essentially played together.

And in particular, like you're watching Hurdle and Stone interact. And for a hockey nerd, like you and I, it's incredibly fascinating to sort of see that. But Stone sternly, as you'd expect, looked rusty and probably not anywhere near 100% throughout the course of that game. and how much of that is a thing where that's just going to be the reality for this team for the rest of this postseason and how much of it is something that you can sort of work into as these games go along, hopefully for them in the sense that you establish some rhythm and some continuity and chemistry and figure that all out.

And then guys just start feeling better about their game. And all of a sudden, by round two or three, if they make it that far, they're in their fully kind of realized form as opposed to whatever this version is, which is clearly like still trying to figure out what. what it should look like. Oh, yeah. Like Stone and Hurdle, I think, is a perfect example where last night their chances and the goals that the two of them were a part of, right?

It's two of their basic instincts on things that you don't need, quote unquote, chemistry. Hurdle goes to the front of the net. He's big. Stars need to do better. I mean, Essel and Del got completely out positioned on that. That's something Dallas probably has to look at there. Maybe you switch something up with in the back end with maybe you have a TANV go there little bit more. I don't know. And then, and Stone done a good job of creating a little bit of

havoc in the slot and got the tip. That's kind of their basic instinct thing. That's not a, that doesn't tell me that at five on five, these two guys are going to click. At five on five, this is a line that I think they can click. Like, I think if you give these guys by four or five more games, like even by game six or seven of this series, Stone and Hurtle could be a very scary pairing together as a line. But right now, it's the, whole, like, I don't know what they'll look like. I don't know what their tendencies will be. It's going to be, it's really, you mentioned kind of the hockey nerds like us who watch this. I'm fascinated just to watch that line again closely. Like, it was the, like, I know we were messaging

this morning before we came on air. Like, I know you went back and rewatched most of the game. I rewatch some of it. I intentionally went and watched some of the shifts that they played. And it's, you can see little things here and there, but it's still two guys that have never effectively been on the ice together in a real moment. And that's both a, benefit in the short term right now for Dallas and a scary thing in the long run for everyone else if Vegas gets by Dallas. Well, especially what's interesting about them is in contrast to their other star line with Ikel, Marcia So and Barbicab.

You saw them exactly why they're so dangerous in game one off the rush and the goal they created a few other chances that they had along the way. And they're just the dichotomy between those two in terms of how they're going to beat you is so interesting to me. because one is clearly just so rush-oriented. And you're certainly going to get, especially with Stevenson playing with those two other guys, you're going to get some rush looks for them off the stone,

turnovers created and everything. But they're going to just essentially try to ground and pound you and like old man game around the net, which is how they created the two power play goals they did. And so I do like that kind of idea where they're just so different in that way, and they're each going to provide clear utility at their best, but it's going to be in a wildly different ways. And that's what makes it such a company.

compelling matchup because we spend so much time in the lead up to it praising Dallas for having this versatility and depth of weapons. And then now we're saying that exact same thing about their round one opponent, which makes this so overqualified to be a first round series. It's what makes playoff hockey great, right? Like what you and I have talked about it before where playoff hockey is not the gets more physical. It's not the like, yes, it gets semi more physical.

But one of the reasons playoff hockey gets more physical is because 82 games. season, everything is you're playing, you're only focused on yourself. That's the reality as a coach. You only focus on yourself. You could have a back to back. You could have a three, you could have a three and four. You could have, sorry, not a three and four anymore. You have a two and three. The, you have, all of these things are you only focused on yourself and then you get to the postseason and okay, now you can turn your focus and gaze to be like, okay, I now get to worry about what the other guy does. I get to actually turn this into a true chess match. You can make some adjustments in the regular season, but in the reality, it's not something you're implementing in practice in a morning

skate. It's just, I focus on my guys. Playoffs, you start to know what everyone does. By end of Vegas and Dallas already know exactly what they're going to do. And I think one of the things that is exciting about this is at the same time, there's a bit of a wild card in it, right? With, we don't know what hurdle and stone and that line is really going to look like. We get a little bit of an idea. We can kind of speculate as you pointed there and take some evidence from that, but it's one of those things where we're going to kind of learn something we don't know about two teams that we know almost everything else about them coming into this. That makes this kind of fun. So I think I made a good point.

No, you made a great point there. And let me build off that. What makes this matchup so fun for me and why I can't wait to see it play out? And I actually thought the broadcast, you know, ESPN gets a lot of criticism for its broadcast and its commentary and like how it frames a lot of this stuff, I actually really thought they did a good job throughout this game of kind of highlighting what was happening in Ryan Callahan in particular. And as you went along, it brought us back to this point that we've discussed on here that you wrote about. And that's why I want to, want to get into that with you is Vegas this year was third in an NHL and block shots. The average about 18 of them per 60 minutes of play. In game one, they blocked another 20. And this isn't one

of those things where it's like a team just kind of chasing the puck and because they're so overmatched what like throwing their body in harm's way and then blocking a bunch of them but then the other team just turning that into scoring chances anyways this is very deliberate and by design on their part where they in their zone scheme they force you to the outside they have a bunch of big dudes who essentially just stand around the net and they block shots and what makes them uniquely equipped I think to frustrate and challenge Dallas's offense, in particular their top line, and you saw a lot of that in game one,

is that sort of aggressive fronting that they do in the defensive zone essentially eliminates, unless the puck just gets by them or has a random balance, and that can happen. That essentially happened on that hurdle goal where he beat Lindell certainly, but Lindel was in front of him. The puck just got past them and then hurdle was alone.

So that can happen for the stars as well. But in game one, you saw a lot of situations where, they're sort of trying to set themselves up and position themselves to work that high, low, tip play that they love to incorporate in their game. And Vegas was just essentially snuffing every single one of those out by fronting the guy, taking away the stick, and just blocking it, and then immediately getting it out of the zone. And so what that did was not only that it would eliminate Dallas's primary source of offense from that top line when they're not attacking off the rush, it's those tip plays. but it also then eliminated extended zone time for the stars because it killed those possessions and got it out of the zone. And so that would be concerning for me from a star's perspective

because you have to find a workaround for that if you're going to win this series because you just need more from hints Robertson and Pavelski. Robertson got the goal, of course, that was off of a shift where he was out there with Stankovin and Stankovind did the heavy lifting and he scored off the rush. They didn't get anything else in that game at 5-1-5, the three of those when they were out there.

And so that's something that you're in this off day, if you're beat to Borr, like, that's something that I'm thinking about above all else, I think. Yeah. And you look at, like, you watch that game, right? It was if, obviously, if any franchise has a history where they dislike Joe Pavelski, it's Vegas, obviously, which is well known for other reasons. The, you watched that game last night and the way there was almost like, it almost seemed like there was a bit of like the internal memo. of when Pavelsky goes to the slot, you tie him up more than anyone else. It just kind of seemed like that, right?

And I don't know if I'm, I don't know if it's something that I was looking for. I don't know if it's something that was actually said by Bruce Cassidy internally. I have no idea. But just watching the game, it looked to me like, Pavelsky was, it was more and more of Vegas, like, okay, Joe Pavelsky is not going to beat us at what Joe Pavelsky does. And they took him out of the game.

They basically took him out of the game that way. And hints to me is the guy who, if there's a, quote-unquote, concern with that line, he's the guy who I would have liked. We've seen times before where Rope Hintz jumps in and just takes over games, right? Like, how many times do we just, we watch him fly in and it's one of like the greatest dopamine rushes in the world, right? Like watching Rope Hints get up and go, and it's amazing. And last night, to me, was one of those games from a Hintz perspective where that version

of Rope Hintz could have unlocked a lot. And it never showed up. And I know Rope Hince plays through a ton of injuries. He's always, he's a guy. He's kind of the classic example of we'll probably never see him play 82 games because of what he does to his body to be that fast and to go. And it's his healing time and everything. But that's what to me, for that line, like you needed Hints to be that guy to start unlocking some other things. Because Hvelski's game in the offensive zone particularly, it is so tied to what others do many times.

right so well i thought you know you could see hints flying through the neutral zone and and setting stuff up off of entries a couple times as the game along in fact even like i think what with like 10 15 seconds left right he kind of had a nice little entry there set up a jamie bend shot and and that was that kind of one last little push they had the concern for me is that you haven't really seen that trademark him flying into the zone rupe hins gober shot where he just rips one past the goal and you're like that was the most electric play in hockey and even Even when you look at like however many goals he scored this year, I think you have to go back to like January to find the last time that he actually just walked into a shot and just cleanly beat a goalie. Like he's compensated for that by doing a lot of dirty work kind of hovering around the net, tipping pucks in, getting rebounds, getting greasy ones.

And that's good because those count the same. But to your point in this series, you actually need him to do that one thing that separates him from everyone else on the ice, which is just that physical ability to take the puck weave through. traffic and beat the goalie. And they are going to need that. I wonder if, you know, it's dangerous to play because Vegas is so good at, like, knocking pucks down and keeping pucks in and turning the puck over in the neutral zone. But I wonder if you don't, like, you kind of saw it with the bend goal where he kind of flies the zone, Wyatt Johnson wins a battle, and they get a breakaway goal out of it.

I'd be tempted to have hints cheat a little bit in this series to try and just fly the zone and see if you can catch Vegas, flat footed, or you. and force them to kind of compensate by then sagging back themselves defensively because otherwise it's going to be hard against this team once they're in a position already for them to create the way they like barring that sort of outcome. So I think that's interesting. Let me give you a few stats on that to kind of reinforce this point. So Rupert Hins played 14, 5 on 5 minutes in game one.

About seven of it was against the McNabb-theodore pairing. In that time, the stars attempted eight shots. They got one of them through traffic and onto the net. and they wound up with a 17% expected goal share in that time. And I think McNabb had like six or seven block shots himself in the game. And they did a really good job I thought of exactly what we illustrated there, which is taking away Pavelski and blocking shots and then preventing them from executing that way. Against every other defense pair, seven minutes.

They had four attempts. Four of them made it on goal. And so I'm not saying that like, because we're talking about a Hanafin, Fitzgerangelo pairing here. So I'm not saying that like McNabb and Theodore. is this destructive force that is going to totally dictate this series. But in this case, like McNabb is so good at blocking shots like this, similar to Alec Martinez, who they scratch for this game, and that gave them problems.

And so they're going to have to find a workaround to that because I don't think they can just rely on Wyatt Johnson's line and other means of offense. Like, they need this top line to be much better than it was in game one. Oh, yeah. No, 100% on that. It's the other thing, too, about it was like, you look at kind of Dallas. and how they kind of... That line also tends to build off its power play

often at times, where it's just like momentum, emotional, whatever terminology you want to use to, they really didn't get much done there either. So it was the... I think the Dallas total had, what, four shots on the power play last night? There was opportunities kind of blown there as well from that line to kind of build on it. And I don't, they need to be better.

It's the classic, as my good friend, Bob Sturm says, you need your best players to be your best players sometimes. And they weren't your best players. No, they weren't. And part of that is like, and we talked about it, but there's no, I can't think of many extended shifts where they just spend it in the offensive zone. And this is the team that was top 10 in the league at cycling,

just beyond the rush itself. Like, they're really good at hemming you in and building on chances that way. They did such a good job. And Callahan noted this as well of like, Whenever the puck would come on the wall, Vegas would just be quick on sending multiple guys there, having support and instantly getting it out. And Dallas seemed almost befuddled by the fact that they were just beating them to all those battles. So I'm not sure if that's something that's a real thing as it can continue. And it was just a one game thing.

But I don't know. I find it so fascinating because, as we said, like Vegas started off so well and then sagged back. And the final count of all this stuff looks like it's in Dallas's favor. and they certainly look like the superior team. But then just how do we parse how much of that was my design from Vegas and how much of it was something that just can't continue? Because I came away from it and I posted on Discord being like, if I'm the stars, I feel good about that process.

But also in the playoffs, there's not that much room for moral victories because you lose three more of these games out of the next six. And then you're spending the summer wondering what happened. And so that's the trick kind of slippery slope. And that's the other key thing about Dallas too, right? you look at, and it's a weird game too for your goalie perspective too, right? Where like if you, if I gave you just the goals against in that first period against Jake Ottinger, you're not really like, like, okay, that's a, that's a tip. That's a, that's a, that's a,

that's a one-timer on the rush. And then another tip. Like, it's the whole thing. It's like, okay. But you can't let up three goals on 10 shots in the first period. of a playoff game. You can't, you can't go, what, 733% in a playoff game. It's the, it's kind of the weird thing from a Dallas perspective where you look at that game too, where if you get a save on one of those, I don't even, it doesn't even matter which one. If you get one of those saves, you're at a, you're at a game where if the game plays out the same way, you're probably winning. It's a very odd game to open the series in many ways for me because there's all these elements where it just added more questions than answers.

It's like, okay, was Jake Gotts or Good or Bad? Well, is the, what is stone? What are Stone and hurdle? Well, like, there's a lot of those additional, like, questions that moved on, which which is great. And it's why I hope we get seven of these because it'll be, it'll be fun because we get actual true answers. But that's, I don't know the answer on all these questions. Well, and also, like, I would lean towards it having partly by design and Vegas.

being willing to let them have what they had because they felt like they could get to the finish line. And this is a team that won the Stanley Cup last year and is like a very veteran group. And I actually do think there is something to this idea that like you kind of know how much you have to do to get the job done on a given night when you reach a certain status as a team. And so I'm willing to subscribe to that. The issue is that I subscribed to it with Tampa Bay in the past. And then you watched that round one series against the Leafs last year and they blew a bunch of games. late in overtime where they lost. And it's like,

all right, well, this is a former Stanley Cup champion that knows how to quote unquote win these games until they don't. And that's what's so fun about all of these playoff narratives is that you can paint any picture you want and it can be true until it isn't.

And then the opposite is true. And so we'll see kind of how we'll need to see more from the series to know, get a true, I guess, litmus test for what game one really represented. But it gave us at least enough to, I think, like get us motivated for,

for the rest of this series and get excited about it. Let's take a quick break here, Sean. And then when we come back, I've got a few other notes on this, and then we can kind of bounce around the rest of the league and all the stuff we saw on Monday night. You're listening to the Hockey P.D.Ocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. Hey, it's Dan Ritcho and Satyar Shaw.

Join us for Knox Central, where we will set up the game and break down the latest around the Canucks. 4 to 6 p.m. and post game on SportsNess 650 and wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're back here on the Hockeyedipat. Castor, Sean, we're talking stars, Golden Knights, from Monday nights, game one. What other notes that you have from this game?

Because I know you wrote up a bunch of stuff about it. We've hammered Vegas's defense structure already against, or against Dallas's offense. What else caught your eye? One of the interesting things to me was how Dallas elected to start this game. I just kind of, that's, was we know Vegas starts. Bruce Cassidy has made it pretty clear throughout the regular season. I mean, I don't know if it's every single period,

but almost it feels like every Vegas game I've watched. and unless they're on somewhere on special teams. Cassidy rolls out that fourth line. That goes out and they start the fourth line and they start the game that way. And Dallas decided to match it by rolling their fourth line with Steel, Fox, and Dattanoff, and it effectively led to a penalty against Steel 26 seconds into the game and ultimately Stone's power play goal. And to me, that was an interesting decision by Pete DeBore.

Because I know DeBore is not a line matcher. He's a line roller. I know that. And so with that in mind, it was odd for me when you get the chances, the home team to set your line and everything like that, that you go with that line and basically decide we're going to roll the same as them. Like that to me was an interesting choice by Pete DeBore. And I personally would have said, okay, I mean, obviously it's easy to look at it with my. say being 2020 like why wouldn't you have started the stankov and johnston ben line or maybe the the pavalski line it's it's one of those things that just as a knowing pete d bores philosophy on i'm

going to roll lines this way and everything like that i don't understand why he played into big as his hands off the opening face off that that was an interesting thing by me especially when it's kind of cheating to say that it's technically their fourth lot on the debt chart but if nick wa is anchoring it it's not a fourth line. That's a second line for a lot of teams. And not only that too, but a fourth line that was just had never played together before, right? Like,

I mean, never like with, they took out Craig Smith. They brought in Dodonov to play. Didonov had been out for like the last 21 games or whatever until game 82 when he came back in for Sagan. So you put a line out there for its first like live bullets shift is against a line that is literally,

we know what they do. Everyone in the building knows what they do. So, like, that to me was a coaching, uh, uh, head scratcher for me from the way Pete DeBore handled that. And normally it doesn't hurt you, but it led to the steel penalty. It led to the goal against this. These are the things that kind of in these microcosms of these series with the millimeters of differences, right?

That's a difference. Yeah. And on the playoffs, every single one of these little edges gets highlighted and I'm with you. I think it's kind of a no brainer. to start games just in general with the Johnston Stankovin combo because they're just so likely to win a battle right off the top

and then I just immediately send out hints to hope that he can catch the other team off guard with a rush chance. But this isn't NFL. We aren't scripting plays here to start the game with. It's obviously much more free-flowing and nuance. But yeah, I'm with you. That obviously bit them and that was kind of the story

of this game as well where it was just like a series of kind of backbreakers for Dallas where they never really were able to get going because they're down right away and it's Markstone of all people who scores it in his return. Then they're down to nothing. They get the goal, but it's called off on an offside review. It just kind of back and forth.

They never were able to get it going. Do you have any stuff on the goaltending? Because you kind of noted Audinger. I actually thought that, you know, Thompson's made the saves at the end that he needed to. And his same percentage looks fine. I thought even like obviously the March and one where he flubs it looks horrible. I thought he looked very shaky regardless throughout. And there was one shot I noticed with like five minutes left in the game maybe.

And it was kind of like an innocuous Harley shot from the left side, kind of like at a bad ankle just above the circle. And Thompson just like made a meal of trying to corral it. And it wound up to a rebound. And they didn't score. But just watching that, it's like I know that both him and Hill were kind of thought up to be pretty banged up physically heading into this series. And I thought you could kind of see that in this game where wound up getting the job done. but if I'm Dallas, I'm just testing them as much as I can because even the saves he made didn't necessarily pass my high test.

To me, that was one of my biggest disagreements with the ESPN broadcast last night, where I think there was some point the line where they were talking about like, they're like, oh, he's recovered well from that Marchmont one. And it was like a play where it was a not that, it shouldn't have been that dangerous of a shot and he made it look more difficult. To me, that was the, that would be one of my huge takeaways from a Dallas person. I imagine part of, and obviously every team goes through and they break down goalie charts and everything like that. But I'm sure one of the things that the stars will be taking into game two as well is you just got to shoot on them right now.

Like that's like I get that feeling about both Vegas goalies having watched some of both of their games kind of down the stretch. And then obviously watching Thompson last night. It was like Thompson had a couple of those like weird big saves where you're like, okay, you battled. to get there. Right. But at the same time, you're like, this is not a sustainable formula for success with the way the save selection is being made here, with the way with where you are. If he's, if Vegas is not doing as good of a job as they are, is kind of creating that halo

around the crease, there's a couple where Dallas has been, a team is just banging home rebounds for goals that, that he kind of got away with too. So I yeah, they said that on the broadcast like, oh, he responded well. I don't think he ever responded well. I think he made a couple good scrambly saves because of his athleticism, but the form and function were highly concerning, I'm sure, for Vegas when Sean Burke, their goalie coach is going through everything today. Yeah, he was battling himself more than the star shots.

It felt like. Yeah. Yeah, that's something certainly to watch the series goes along. I also thought I had a note that particularly, early on, it kind of lessened as the game went along, but Vegas seemed to be making a concerted effort of just absolutely unloading on the forecheck on Harley in particular. I was like, man, they're really just targeting him here.

And he had a rough stretch to start with a few kind of 50-50 bucks or giveaways that, I think were a direct result of that. I thought he really found his winning as the game went along. And in fact, there were a few plays where like he would jump in on the rush and be either the third man in or leading it, and the puck just awkwardly bounced off of someone's stick and nothing came of it, but it very easily could have been a highlight real goal. And so I thought it was impressive that he bounced back the way he did in that game under those circumstances, but that's something to watch because we made so much of last year's series between these two

teams where Miro had no help and Vegas made a point of just attacking him off the forecheck and wearing him down over the course of those six games. And now I'm curious to see how that unfolds in this series and obviously Dallas has more options in terms of their defensive depth and talent to deal with it. But it is also, it just kind of highlights

we're talking about the differences between regular season and postseason. I think like the functional physicality in this sense of what a nightmare it is to be a top defenseman against good foreshacking teams gets highlighted because I imagine there's a psychological accumulation

beyond all the physical pain of just knowing that the same guys are going to be turning the corner and just try to just nail you into the boards every single time you go back to play a puck. It's the first time also from an emotional perspective to it's the first time Thomas Harley has come in and the entire world now knows who Thomas Harley is. I feel like you and I, there's people who watched that series last year

and we all gushed about where he was going and everything like that. But he was still the kid called up from Texas who really was solving other people's problems. Now, when Vegas goes into their locker room and everything like that, and they got their whiteboard up with names, they circle 55, go hit 55, right? That's the type of thing that comes with growth in the NHL, right? It's the classic example of, I'd like to use the terminology of it, and it's not my original terminology at all, but you learn the league, and the league learns you at the same time, right? And so Thomas Harley, there's now a book on Thomas Harley. There's now a plan of attack that other teams make at you.

And I think this is the first, this is going to be a really fascinating growth perspective for me for Harley, where he's a guy who's always been incredibly cocky, always had that swagger and ego and everything like that. And this is kind of the first time. I think he's really being to be tested that way by a world class opponent. Like obviously, he played junior hockey. People said, oh, go hit him. He was bigger and could skate faster than everyone else. All that stuff. Like, it's going to be from Harley's growth in perspective, this is another.

fascinating subplot in this series. And I thought he performed better as the game went along, not nearly as good as he's been all year. But I thought he settled a little bit. No, he did. One final note on this is I just thought that, I mean, obviously, Johnston, Ben, and Stankoven were Dallas's best trio, and they created a ton of chances.

Stankov and turning the tables on Mark Stone at the end of the first was a delight. And I say that as someone who has enjoyed Mark Stone victimizing people with that exact play for years now. And so just seeing the tables turn on him like that was very cool. And Stan Cohen's awesome. And he just continues to be a nightmare, particularly on that back check where he just gets on his horse and just attacks you and creates so much destruction and dysfunction. His leverage point is incredible. Like it's one thing you obviously expect him to have a better

like he has to have a lower center of gravity when you're probably actually five seven, five six. You have to have a low point of gravity, but he plays it so well. Like there's so many times where he'll be on the forechecked or in the corner battle, right, where against a much bigger guy. And you'll almost kind of see that shock in their face of like, wait, this guy's way more dense than I have expected him to make yourself. Dense is a good word. Yes.

He's a very dense young lad. Yeah, these West games have been awesome. I mean, I'm obviously enjoying the entire postseason, but I was also noting to you like just the pace or competitiveness at times of these West games compared to some of the East ones. It does seem like it's wildly different to me. But looking forward to watching both because all these games are awesome and around one is just the best.

Do you want to do, are we done with this series? Do you have any other notes? Do I kind of bounce around the league and do some spark notes, I guess? Yeah, let's bounce around a bit. Let's do some spark notes of the other series that played on Monday. I'm trying to, I want to, it's always tough covering this stuff in real time in the playoffs, right? Because I don't want to be talking about games.

that are happening tonight because by the time people listen, everyone listens to different times to these show, all of a sudden it's completely outdated. So I'm trying to talk about games during their days off. So we actually give people time to consume and process and think about this stuff. So let's talk about the games on Monday. Quick in order, Keynes Isles.

Shot attempts were 110 to 28 for Carolina. And after the Islanders went up 3-0 early in the second, shots on goal were 29 to 3 for Carolina the rest of the way. the two goals scored nine seconds apart to take the lead. I guess you can look at this two ways, right? Because obviously Carolina is just a vastly superior team to their opponent in this matchup. On the one hand, you could be like, oh, here we go again. This is such a classic Canes playoff performance where the shot attempts are 110 to 28

and they had to essentially pull victory from the jaws of the feet. On the other hand, if you're optimistic about this Kerry Kane's team, the way I am this year, you view it as like, well, this is why it's different because they actually found a way to break through and take a game like this as opposed to being on the wrong end of there were everyone screenshoting the shots on goal disparity and laughing about how they essentially did the same thing over again. To me, it's the body blows are paying off for Carolina now. And it's the, obviously like the Martinucal, right?

it is I'm sure there was a question in the I'm sure Patrick Gwaugh had a question for his goaltender of how he and why he decided to play it that way but it's one of those mistakes right that you probably don't make that mistake in the first period you don't make that mistake because a defenseman in the first period and second period but when we talked about the emotional level of just getting hammered over and over again first five, ten times, you can take it. The 35th time you get plastered into the boards, you start to coil up a bit. And to me, it's the, it's last night was a perfect example of how the body blows Carolina throws, to use a boxing analogy, can lead to that knockout that doesn't

look like a knockout, but really you kind of laid the groundwork for it 15 shots earlier. And I think that's kind of how I look at what Carolina did. And I don't know, I'm bullish, on Carolina too. I picked them to be in the final. I think it's a, I think they're going to take chunks out of teams. And sometimes in the long run, you might not get the goal early on,

but I think it's going to, it's going to leave some damage. So that's how I look at Carolina right now. So I wanted to note this. I'm not sure if I mentioned it during my, my two-part playoff preview last week. I did it with Jack Fraser and Jack Hahn. And it was absolutely mayhem.

We were trying to cover everything. And things were flying on. all over the place as I was trying to lead the conversation with two jacks at that. So I was like trying to reference who I was talking to. It was a whole ordeal. I think it turned out well though. But I don't know if I noted at the time that Seth Jarvis was my favorite cons might pick this season. Now I don't bet on hockey.

But if you want to enjoy the postseason and do so responsibly, I think it's like I saw him at like plus 14,000 or something to win the cons might. And now, who knows with Carolina? Because they have so many options if they go in a long run, right? There's so many good players there that you can build, build a narrative around. But I just think he's on the top line, top unit power play. He's a good bet to be their leading score. And you watch that game, it does feel like he's kind of like the emotional, like, energy for this team as well. Right.

Like he scores that goal. He gets them going. And so I think he's such an awesome player. But I kind of wanted to shout that out. let's do Lee's Bruins. So I want to talk to you about the goalie decision because obviously you and I have spoken about our pal Monty in the past and the way he's handled this in particular. A lot was made of last postseason.

And a lot of people felt like he mishandled it. Now, Swayman plays remarkably well in game one, stops 35 or 36. They go to Allmark in game two. I know they lost the game. Allmark played well. And I will say even regardless of the result, like heading into it, I felt like I'm okay with it. I think Swayman is clearly the superior goalie of the two,

but if there was ever a time you were going to do this, I felt like doing it for Game 2 was the right move because if you didn't, then it would be really tough to justify later in the postseason in my opinion. I have no issue with it. I personally

think, because they've alternated every single start since February. It's the formula that's worked. Swamen played what, pull it up. Swayman started 43 this year, Olmark started 39. I personally would keep rotating them until you got to the point where it was like, okay, now we roll with Swamen the rest of the way.

Like, that's the way I would do it. I don't think, I think part of the Vegas story last year, part of the Florida story, the Bobrovsky run last year is I think we see more and more how physically taxing the position has become. And if you're going to have, if you're going to win a Stanley Cup, I think I always kind of circle the number as you need your goalie to be not pushing further than 70 games. And if you're going to, if a guy's going to, like, even Swayman, right?

Like, you only started 43 this year. But say Boston was to go all the way to the final and everything like that and they played 23, 24 games, whatever it was, you'd be pushing right around 70 if you played every game. to me, I have no issue with the rotating goalie thing, especially in round one, especially in round two. We saw Carolina did it last year and that, when they had the super long playoff. Like it can be a tool at times. And I would keep doing it right now. And unless the one, unless one guy gives you a reason to take himself out of the rotation, I would not change it. That's my personal view on it. Now, I'm sure some people disagree and

everything like that. But that's my personal, my personal take on it. for now. Well, not only that splits of a game started, but I believe that the stat

is that they had alternated starts 27 straight times up until this point. And so, like, if you're using the regular season

as kind of a trial run to essentially prepare yourself for the playoffs, you can't really switch it at this point, in my opinion, because you just haven't,

like, I'm sure there's a day out between games. It's not a back-to-back necessarily, but the preparation that goes into getting yourself

ready for starts, matters, in my opinion. That's something we don't account for. And so throughout the regular season, if you're Jeremy Swyman or Linus Almorick and you know, all right, I'm playing tonight, that means that two days from now I'm not playing. The way you prepare yourself and how you go about your business

is going to be different than if you're just a workhorse starter who's starting every one of those games. And so that's the way you've gone all season. I think that would be very dramatic change at this point. The bigger issue for me is that they had, one scoring chance in the third period in a tie game. And so Allmark was good. He did everything he needed to.

They just offensively, that was the bigger concern for me. I thought the Leafs did a much, like in game one, their defense was exposed in my opinion with the lack of puck moving ability because they've prioritized having these big, tough defensive defensemen this year. And they just could not get out of their zone to save their life.

Their forwards did a way better job of coming low to support them in game two. And shout out Austin Matthews, who delivered just an absolute. monster performance. He played 23-24, which was actually the most in the team, even more than any other defensemen. They scored three goals. He had primary assists in the first two, then the cool game winner off the alley-up in the third. He helps keep the puck out during that late scramble when it's loose. Eight scoring chances set up two more, 12 shot attempts, and he did it all against Lynn Holm, Carlo, and McAvoy. And I guess as this series goes to

Toronto, assuming Willie Nealander is going to be back here at some point, that's going to be a big deal, because Boston's very careful about how they're using their depth defensemen. And all of a sudden, if they're going to be using all these guys against Matthews, eventually they're just going to have to use someone else against Nylander. And that seems like it could be a massive advantage for the Leafs. So I don't think that storyline is like, it's been talked about because it's the Leafs and it's Willie Nealander. And so everyone's aware of it, I guess. But like the actual practical ramifications of what it'll do to the series could really blow this open, I think.

Well, on top of that too, right? It wasn't there the, there's the injury to peak today, too. So you're going deeper into Boston's depth as well. So, yeah, it's one of those, like, chess matches where the matchup part is going to be, Toronto's, it's going to be interesting when it goes to Toronto. If you want, and now, if Boston was going to be a true, truly buy into the things you, you and I beliefs, they wouldn't be dressing, Omar at all in game three. And they would give them the complete day off.

and they would be having the other guy. And that's, now if we want to go full, if you want to go fully down our, our perfect world for hockey using our old, if the, what's the image there? It's like if everything was like this.

So that would be that way. But we're not getting that, unfortunately. No. No, we won't. Well, I mean,

also like in case, you know, if God forbid or swim and it gets hurt or something, I think you do want to have Allmark ready to go. Filling in the hotel room. Okay. Oilers Kings is the last one.

Yep. I thought, you know, the Oilers wind up with seven goals. I thought the Kings were lucky that it was that low. McDavid had five assists in, I thought that was a low range of outcomes for him because how much he created, I thought he very easily could have had seven or eight, if not more. And just watching the way he was carving through them in particular, like three, five-on-five goals against Philip Dineau, which is a head-to-end matchup that Dineau has held his own in previously. he had Mikey Anderson

just in the torture chamber all night whenever he was out there against him and the fastballed oilers just threw it with them like it's a long series I'm sure the kings are going to find a way to kind of claw back into it and be more respectable but the past two versions of this were so close and hard fought and then the oilers finally found a way to win at the end with their talent level in this case it just looked so one-sided

and I just thought like the offensive creation that they displayed was was staggering I mean, I've been tracking all these games. We started recording, so I didn't have a chance to finish this one. But I had the Oilers with 14 scoring chances in the first period alone. That's more than Dallas and Vegas had all of their game yesterday. So I think they're going to get into the 30s by the time I'm done tracking that. And just it's staggering what they did to the Kings, who for all their flaws, are a stingy defensive team.

I was amazed when I looked at McDavid's time on ice that it was only 1847. Like it was one of those where you were watching the game. Now, I had both screens going, so I had the Dallas game on the one, and I was going to flip them back and forth and everything like that. But it was one of those kind of games. We're like, oh, man, McDavid is just killing them. He's playing. He must be like 26 minutes tonight.

And then you look at he's like 1847. And it's one of those where it's like, oh, man, this isn't even putting in the extra time. This is just, this is just done that way. One of my biggest flaws in my prediction preview, though, it was like, oh, I thought, like, I took the, emotional look where I'm like, it's really hard to beat a team three years in a row. Like, that's what, that's what I kind of. Oh my God. You didn't pick the Kings, did you? I did, unfortunately. I was like, I was like, I was tried to be, I tried to be sneakily smart on it,

and I'm looking very stupid on it. It was incredibly stupid. I'm, and I'm willing to admit that already, even after one game. Oh, man. I, yeah. I, I unfortunately watched a lot of Kings hockey in the second half. So I, I just, I could not have gotten myself there. I do, I do understand. stand your sentiment, but man, it seems very one-sided right now. Okay, let's plug some stuff. What's your coverage going to be like this postseason, both the star stuff, but also just in general? Yeah, so we're doing some stuff for EP Rinkside.

I'm doing a kind of a weekday, kind of quick daily briefing over for us over at E.P. Rinkside, first two are up already yesterday on Monday and Tuesday. That'll be each weekday. Check that stuff out at E.P.Ringside. Over at the substack, over at Shapshots, Hockey.com. I've got some more specific stars

stuff. I had something from the game last night. We'll keep doing that. And yeah, it's and then I also want to give a shout out to my good, one of the other people I do some work for is the folks down at D Magazine. So if you're looking for some additional Dallas stuff, they hire me to do some extra

stuff during the playoffs. And last night, me and my buddy David Castillo kind of combined a little bit for some stuff from that one as well. So a lot of playoff stuff, lots of coffee. as I've mentioned on Twitter, half jokingly, half true. If you own a coffee company, hit me up. I will plug your stuff because I'll use the product.

Yeah, look at me, just calling, looking, always be selling. Looking for coffee sponsorships, I love it. Yes, always be selling. All right, buddy. Well, keep up the great work. We'll have you on again soon. My plug is get into the PDOCcast Discord. I mentioned it earlier.

I'm going to keep talking about it because it was fun in the regular season. These first few nights of the playoffs, though, it's been absolutely bustling. It just enhances your viewing experience. and so much getting to just comment on this stuff real time without any bots commenting on everything back and just getting to chat with similarly deranged individuals like you and I who just get the chat about this stuff as it's happening. So it's really fun. And the round one is, as I said, the absolute best. You know, it doesn't have quite the stakes as like when you get later but the volume of games every night and also the fact that teams are theoretically like healthier

and like the toll and the rigors of the playoffs haven't taken, taken over yet and really kind of like hampered players physically, I think makes for just awesome hockey. So this is a blast and it's the best way to enjoy it, I think. It's what Twitter used to be. It's really what it is, right? Like in the early days of Twitter before we always got all, got all these mentions about nudes and bio and everything like that.

It's really, I like lurking through and souching through that. I enjoy it. Get in the Discord. get into the Discord. I'll co-sign that for you. I love that. Yeah, Sunday in particular,

I was like sitting on the couch from I think 9.30 a.m. local time until 9.30 p.m. watching games. So it was fun. I feel like everyone in there is, are all my, like,

loved ones, Knitiv and others because people in my real life don't feel that way about me right now because I'm just not available to see them because I'm just sitting on my couch watching this stuff.

So I don't regret it, though, because this is the best. That's all for today. We'll be back with more playoff content. I honestly don't have a current set schedule right now for this stuff because the Canucks are going on as playoff run for radio purposes. And so it's all up in there. But I'm just watching all these

games. And so I'm going to try to when I have takes like this, get back here and record as many shows as I can the morning after. So looking forward to that. In the meantime, enjoy another full slate of playoff games tonight. And thank you for listening to the Hockey P.D.O.cast on the Sports Night Radio Network.