The Hockey PDOcast - Takeaways from the 2024 NHL Trade Deadline

Episode Date: March 9, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Sean Shapiro and John Matisz to talk about the biggest stories from this year's trade deadline. If you'd like to join the conversation, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's Discord server here:https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Progressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey P.D.O.cast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey P.D.O.cast. My name is Dimitri Filippovich and joining me for the special two hour 24, two 2024 trade deadline extravaganza recap. My good buddy, John Mattis, John. What's going on, man? Not a whole lot to meet you're actually a ton, but I'm glad you threw extravaganza in there because it certainly feels like an extravaganza. Two hours. Let's do this. Yeah, it's going be fun and because it is such an extravaganza, we thought, you know what, while it would be great if John and I were just chatting, I think we should open it up and bring in our pal, Sean Shapiro as well and really turn this into a party. Sean, what's going on, man? Are we giving honest answers

right now? Are we giving the, I'm doing great no matter what. It's been a great day for hockey type deal, which what's the answer do you want today? Well, we're recording. So let's go with the simple one, although we should, you know what, let's give the listeners a peek behind the current. friends here at this point. Sean made the mistake of asking me how it's going once we started this call before we were recording. And I gave them the unfiltered seven-minute answer of how tired I am after the past week and how I'm looking forward to getting through this. But also, that's not entirely true because this is going to be really fun. And honestly, we're very lucky to be getting together like this and chatting about fun trades. And there's so much for us to discuss.

So let's do it. We made it through another trade deadline. We survived it. officially in the books. There's so much for us to sort through here. And we're going to try to do as much as we can over the next two hours. Rather than doing the traditional sort of trade grades or kind of winners and losers, which is just, I think, not lazy, but it's like it's so played out at this point. I think we can have more fun with it and also provide our listeners with more practical value. So instead, I thought the three of us today would talk about all the most interesting stuff, whether it's actionable and consequential stuff for the rest of this season, whether it's stuff that maybe even didn't happen that we're looking forward to seeing happen in the future.

All of that stuff, there's no wrong answers, but we're going to see how much ground we can cover. I'm sure that we won't get to everything today. And luckily on Monday, we'll be back with plenty more time to discuss stuff. But let's get into it. Sean, I'll give you the floor here first. What did you think was the biggest takeaway, not just from today, but from this entire trade deadline process and what's on the top of your mind? Well, my original thought that every that leads every headline right now is obviously Vegas, right? Like that's them coming in at the wire and getting, getting hurtle, a guy who we see all

these trade lists. You talk about winners and losers lists and everything like that. How many trade lists do we see? And no one ever read Thomas Hurdle's name on anything. So that's, but to me, I kind of laugh at one of the bigger things out of it. My bigger takeaway, actually, that I've been thinking about since writing something earlier over at E.P. Rinkside, though, was more of the San Jose sharks and their quest to potentially land both Maclin Celebrini and James Hagen's in back-to-back years is actually my is one of my favorite pushes on this because not only do they make the hurdle trade and and they go out there and in the process probably completely piss off their captain who now wants nowhere to be nowhere near to be near anymore and they do that and then they willingly take a

worst goalie from New Jersey in a trade that I can only I mean if your goal is to get number one picks in back-to-back ears. I think the sharks did a tremendous job. So I'm going to talk about the Vegas trade, but use that as kind of one of the things I've been randomly ruminating on here with that. Well, why limit ourselves to just those prospects? Why not even stretch it out to Gavin McKenna? Let's go even further. I mean, we don't need to limit ourselves. We can get more ambitious with drawing out this tanking process. I thought obviously we have to start there, right? Because I think Vegas would have been a talking point in and of itself, even if we started this with 30 minutes or 15 minutes left. before the trade deadline today because, you know, they went out and they used that LTIR space they have,

and we can talk about the process and machinations of that as well here to add Noah Hanofin, to add Anthony Mantha and bolster their team in that way. But then obviously they dropped the bomb kind of out of left field right up until the wire, adding Tomas Hirtle as well. John, this was obviously surprising, and I think that's a testament to how surprising it was that I say that because the Golden Knights have trained us over the past couple years to just always expect the unexpected with them, right? I would have told you initially there's nothing they could really do that would surprise me because everything is fair game with them. They'll leave

no stone unturned in their pursuit of improving this team. They will trade everyone. They will spend every single possible dollar to accomplish it. And we knew they were going to make a move today as well, right? Because they carefully structured both of the previous two deals to leave themselves with cap space to add someone. And also, we should note, the hilarious conditional nature of the first rounder they gave the Calgary Flames and no ad of trade as well, which telegraphed this where it was like, we'll give you the 2025 first, unless we traded by Friday, wink, wink, which I think as soon as everyone saw that, I was like, all right, I'm sure they already have an idea of what this is going to be. Now, I think we would

have thought that it was either going to be Pavel Bouchdevich or some bigger trade involving a guy like Tyler Tofoli or even bringing Riley Smith back, something to add a winger like that. I don't think any of us expanded our imagination to actually it's going to be Tomash hurdle. And somehow through all this madness, they stole their 2024 first, which is wild. Yeah, the thing with the hurdle trade was, as Sean mentioned, kind of came out of nowhere as far as hurdle himself. And then it kind of broke my brain to your point, Dimitri, that Vegas was the team that acquire them just because as much as you expect it, you just think that they, sure, they might make another move. They might do that last minute thing, but not to this extent. And like, you just shake

your head and, you know, I was doing this sort of live reaction blog for the score. And I had to take a second to think about like, how do I actually react to this? Because in the moment, I'm kind of speechless that they've done this again. And then my reaction, you know, the lead only reaction becomes they did it again because how else is there to frame it? This team is so equally cutthroat as that is smart and they're so determined to turn this incredible start as a franchise into, I don't know, a 10-year run. They're in year seven. They have a cup.

They went to the cup final in the first year and they just keep rolling things over, rolling things over. And they're, I don't know if exploits the right word, but the way they're using the salary cap to their advantage, I'll say, is just to the end's degree. There's a lot of teams in LTIR right now. there's a lot of teams that are doing similar things,

but Vegas is really the only team that's being extreme about it. And the result is that, you know, their center depth is like laughably good now. So you've got Jack Eichel, William Carlson, Chandler Stevenson, Nick Waugh, and yeah, a guy named Thomas Hurdle. And obviously one of those guys or two of those guys are going to end up on the wing, but that's five deep. That's, that's pretty gross. and then when you throw Hanifin on their blue line again it just gets

to the point where you go how do they manage to do this to have all these quality pieces the through line with their defensemen is that they're all long and can all skate and they take up so much room in the defensive zone and it just must be a nightmare

to try to game plan against his team and Bruce Cassidy is one of the biggest winners of this deadline right? He just gets such an infusion into his lineup. Before we move, before we move to it too far away from this, because I think we could, I'm careful of this because I think we can spend the next two hours talking about just the Vegas Golden Knights.

And so I don't want to move away too far from the sharks just because I quickly wanted to make a point on this and also gauge your guy's opinion because they're obviously in this trade as well. And for the purposes of what matters the rest of the season, it's obviously Vegas's perspective. I just thought that the reaction to this trade was interesting. And Sean, you and I were DMing as news was breaking. of it. And obviously, I much preferred the initial report, which was San Jose receiving the two third round picks. And then once it was amended to actually, they're the ones sending the third round picks

back to Vegas. I was like, I like that a little bit less from their perspective, certainly. But I think everyone, whenever a player with the name recognition that Tomas Hurtle has gets traded, and then you see the return, which is like, all right, this guy who went at the very end of the first round last year and then a 2025 first, which is probably going to be a late pick again, that's all you can get considering you're retaining for six more years after this season on this guy. Are you serious? That's all you can get? I think that was the natural reaction, right? I think part of that is because everyone is so fed up by this point of Vegas just getting away with this constantly that I think everyone just wants to take that position. But in thinking about

it, I actually think San Jose did a pretty reasonable thing here in the grand. scheme of things because I think what people are underrating is just the complexity of moving a contract of this magnitude, right? Like, Erdall was set to make over $8 million for his age 31 through 36 seasons. I think nearly 20 million in future signing bonuses. Like, there were just so few teams that could feasibly navigate a deal like this at any point that for them, this kind of get out of jail free card in a sense opened up where it was like, we're going to suck anyways for the next few years. This guy's already in his 30s. He's currently hurt right now. We know that his knees are basically being held together by duct tape at this point.

Let's bite the bullet a little bit, retain 17% every year that's going to become more and more manageable. It won't matter for the next couple of seasons anyways by the time the burns and Carlson retensions expire. And we'll get a few assets for this. And I think it's obviously not the best return certainly, and it hurts for Sharks fans who like this was one of the few things you had to care about with this team. And he was a clear fan favorite over the years. But in the grand scheme of things, I think Mike Greer did pretty well here with a headache of a situation where this was the last thing that Doug Wilson left him with essentially, right?

A couple trade deadlines ago, they could have gotten so much for hurdle as an expiring player. And instead they chose to sign him to this eight-year deal. And that really restricted Mike Greer when he took over. And so getting what they could at this point and not having that financial commitment looming over them, I don't really blame them for it. So I actually think San Jose did okay here despite what the general consensus I feel like is on it. Well, and I think the other thing too that's, I would be fascinated to be on flying the wall for this is the 17% part of it and the retention, right? Like, because one of the big things, right, is between you mentioned Burns and Carlson and now they've got, it's three of their retention, all three of their retention spots taken for the next two years. And then they've got two taken for the next four years.

So you talk about a spot where a valuable asset they basically gave away. And so I'm fascinated to know, like, where, in Mike Greer's conversations with Kelly McCrimmon, like, where, how do you value? I'm giving up my final retention spot to hold 17%. Like where is the, like it's that that's, I may be nerding out about that part, but it just, it's one of those where as it kind of goes, it's like,

well, we'll hold, say they said, oh, we'll hold, we'd like, maybe Vegas said, oh,

we'd like you to hold 50% of course. And they're like, all, well, we'll hold 50%, but you got to give us this, this and this. Uh,

well, would you hold 40. Like, I would love to see the back and forth over that because San Jose basically gave something away here. that does limit them in theory, they'll be selling the deadline next year, right? In theory.

So it limits their ability to sell deadline this year. So that's part of, I also think about that in the long run too where yes, they did a good job getting out of the sins of a past GM, but at the same time, you're balancing that next year, you're not going to be able to be that partner

to pick something up. You're not going to be able to try to sneakily grab other picks the way, like we saw New Jersey could kind of sneakily pick up some other picks here and there on one year expiring deals to hold salary. You did give away something as well. And I think that's going to maybe hurt a little bit more in the longer run than we even

realize too with San Jose. No, that's fair. And it's so rare that the teams bump into that where they're already locking up three retentions for years in advance that this does make it a bit of an anomaly in that regard. So I think that's a very fair point to make. I guess, like, people aren't really acknowledging the risk of age, health, and commitment kind of hanging over the heads with or their heads with this deal, right? Where it's like, we'll see what it, what hurdle looks like in a couple years.

But I think that's also the beauty of a deal like this because Vegas is the one organization that simply does not care. Like they're like, you know what? This might not work out. But when the time comes, we've shown and we've proven an ability to get out of it one way or another or make it work and pass it off or bury it or figure something out. and I'm sure they will. So from their perspective, I don't think they're necessarily that concerned about it. And they're like,

this is all upside for us. We have a chance to add a quality player. Let's do it. And so I think that's the way they were probably viewing it. But it's interesting, John, that for a team that's become sort of public enemy number one for a lot of people, right? And it's like you can't talk about hockey these days without talking about LDIR. Part of the ironic thing about this is since day one,

since the expansion draft, the other NHL teams in this league seemingly can't help themselves when it comes to helping out the Vegas Golden Knights. They're like, please let us accommodate you. We will help you accomplish what you want to accomplish. And certainly, I think there's logic of their own as we just talked about from the Sharks perspective, but also if teams were less willing to do so, I think this type of management would become a problem for Vegas, but it hasn't yet because they keep finding ways to get out of it and basically kick the ball down the road like this.

well i think what's underrated in this story of the golden nights and how aggressive they've been is that they've drafted really good players in the first round because they've traded them eventually so they became desirable patent crabs um no one else is coming to mine off top man by Suzuki brandstrom was cody glass their guy no yeah yeah yeah so anyways yeah like the guys that they've traded they've traded at at you know a fairly high uh level in terms of their their their stock report over the years. So that's really factored in here, I think. Well, here's the thing. So what was the, what was the first, first year of their existence when they made the multiple first round picks? What year was that? Do you guys remember off the top of here? It was like 2017.

Yeah. 2017. Yeah. So from 2017 to 2026, the only first that are still in their possession or within their organization are Ren and Brissan and the 24 first, but they're still hanging on to. Everything else, including the 25 and 26, have been moved already. And what is different about Brendan Broussand compared to the rest of the other first track? Oh, maybe some future contractual bargaining power and leverage. I don't know. Are you suggesting that within hockey,

there's a certain level of familiarity with family members and stuff like that that can help you get a little ledge? I'm just saying the last name there is strikingly noticeable. It is. Okay, so let's get to Vegas' perspective from this then, because John, you hinted at this. Eichel, Hurdle, Carlson, Nick Wah as a fourth line center. Chandler Stevenson, who's going to bump to the wing now, should familiarize himself with the

UFA market this summer, because I think that's also a fallout of this, certainly. And I'm sure he'll get paid. Like, it's fine. But the theoretical team that the Vegas Golden Knights can put out there, along with the addition on the blue line of Noah Hanofin, is outrageous, right? it's like it's a nightmare for anyone to match up with there's so much size and skill there. It's basically an extension of everything they put on display last postseason. I guess the thing that's being underrated in all of this that I keep coming back to though,

and you didn't really hear anyone on the broadcast today acknowledge it other than kind of barely in passing is that this theoretical version of what they could be actually needs to manifest itself on the ice soon because they keep losing games and their margin for error is shrinking quite dramatically. here in rapid order, right? Like, they're one six and once in Stone got hurt. They've been outscored 38 to 25 in that time. Their 5-1-5 shares have plummeted into the mid-40s. You watch them on Thursday night against the Canucks.

The Canucks made them look really slow in that game. And they're obviously going to be adding guys into the lineup here now, but the Cracken are only six points back. Seattle has a game in hand on them. And there's two more head-to-heads between those two teams the rest of the way. And that's for the second wildcard spot in the West. So we're getting to a point now with 19 games left where it's all well and good to be like, this is what we could look like in the playoffs.

But this Golden Knights team actually needs to get there in the first place, which is such a fascinating wrinkle to all this. Yeah, and it's extra fascinating because there's plenty of teams over the years who have loaded up at the deadline. And they look great on paper, but the puzzle feast just don't fit. Or they change too much about their team that there's just not enough runway to kind of get rocking and rolling. And then there's the Mark Stone X factor. Obviously, there's still a formidable team without him if he does not return the playoffs. I think it sounds like he will at some point in the playoffs, but what if it's too late, right?

So it's really, like I love what they've done up front with the forward group, but there's something about how Hanifan slots into their defense that kind of blows my mind. as far as, you know, whether it's Hannafin with Petriangelo, and then you've got, you know, McNabb with Theodore and Hague with White Cloud, and then you got Martinez coming back. Like, that's seven deep. Like any of those seven players would be, could theoretically be top four on any team in the league. It's pretty crazy.

Like, I think there's a lot of value in Hague and White Cloud that's being, that will come out in future years when the other players ahead of them age out. So there, I mean, you know, it's one of those things where, like I said, you can change too much about a team and it becomes a bit of a race to figure out the chemistry.

But I think more often than not, and it's going to sound like I'm talking at two sides of my mouth, but I think more often than not, it does work out where you make these big moves you just bring in as much talent as possible and then you figure it out down the stretch because it's not like they're in a position where they're chasing a playoff spot.

I know they don't have one secured, but I think that they're in a good enough spot that they can say play 500 hockey and still make the playoffs and then they'll really explode in the first round. To John's point, to John's point, I don't know, did either of you watch the Buffalo game last night

where, so Bowen Byron plays his first game. there, right? And he comes in. And he's trying to basically run the adavs power play. And you can see him trying to now, it's also shows how laughable it is where he's coming from one team that clearly runs the power play incredibly well, best of the, one of the best of the world to the Buffalo Sabres. But that right there is one of like the kind of screaming loud things of it's not just

video game plug and play on this. So there is going to be like, that's why I always like when teams kind of, I'm always a big fan when teams make a move earlier because you give the guy a couple extra weeks to kind of get in and everything like that. The other thing that's just funny about this, just kind of, you mentioned the stone factor. When I see all the people be like, oh, they're making, making up the Mark Stone injury. Like, this is not a team that's in first place. And in the playoffs by 20 points. They're not, they're not right locked in there. That's the other whole laughable thing where this whole thing, in theory, they could play 500 hockey and not make it.

And that would be, I can imagine the dancing on the graves on Twitter. when that happens or X or whatever we want to call it now. That will be one of the great days on hockey social media. Well, yeah, that's how I keep saying. Like, if you think that they're willingly being like we, Mark Stone, sit out because we want to add players and we think that's going to make us a better hockey team, I implore you to watch any game that Golden Knights have played since he got hurt because it really reinforces.

I think everyone knows what a valuable player he is for a variety of reasons, but then you watch them without him. And it's like, this doesn't make nearly as much sense as it does when he's out there. And so I think that's important. I think to your point there, the final 20 games for the Golden Knights here, or 19, I think they have, all become appointment viewing, not only for people like us who want to see how all of these moving parts come together and fit on the ice, but also, as you mentioned, Sean, for those with other rooting interests who are going to be cheering for the funniest possible outcome in all of this, where they sputter and keep losing games, and all of a sudden you get to this.

point where they're actually fighting for their playoff lives, there's a lot of amazing outcomes here, and I can't wait to see how it plays out. Do you guys have, I guess to my one final point on the stone thing there, because I think this is such a nuanced conversation that obviously online kind of devolves into very simple conversation. But if he does come back for game on in the postseason, I think what that tells you is that for better or for worse, hockey players play through much more ailments in the playoffs than in the regular season. And sometimes we tend to lionize it, right? We're like, oh, what a warrior this guy is.

He's playing with a broken leg. He's playing with a punctured lung. And it's like, all right, this stuff's very harmful in terms of long-term ramifications for what's going to happen to this player's life when we're no longer cheering for them and watching them play when they're 40, 50 years old and still have to live the rest of their lives. But also, that's just the nature of this sport. This is what the players do where something that keeps you out in the regular season probably won't keep you out in the playoffs unless the medical staff says you simply can't play or you can't handle it yourself. And so I think that's what we see here where you're not making the point that I think you're trying to make when you say that, oh, well, look, he couldn't play in the final game of the regular season, but he's all of a sudden healthy enough to play in the first game of the playoffs. I think there's a lot of wiggle room there between, like none of us are doctors, but there's a lot of wiggle room there between why that's the case.

Well, it's, but it's, but we've heard it in hockey for forever. How often do we hear a coach or a GM be like, well, it was a playoff game you'd go tomorrow. Like, we hear that all the time. Like, it's something where we accept that as a very normal thing. If a guy misses game 23 of the regular season or something like that and we're like, oh, well, if it's a playoff game, you would go tonight. Okay, we accept it then. But all of a sudden, when we're talking about an actual very serious, when it's somehow, we're talking about game 81 or 82, all of a sudden we start adding this gravitas to it when

if we're going to like you can't have it both ways if you want to go be like oh well he'll be ready for game one okay i want you to go yell at the toronto maple leaves when they go and when they say well Mitch marner couldn't go tonight because it was an ankle or something like that they wouldn't say ankle they'd say lower body but they can't go tonight but it was the playoffs you go okay start yelling them like i don't like like i think if you want to have it both ways fine but we do it any other night of the season but when it gets to game 82 we start getting angry about it Well, and it's such a gray area that it goes both ways, right? So a team that's out of the playoffs right now, say someone on the sharks,

they can easily just write this season off and be like, okay, I'm injured, put me on LTIR, I'm going to start my summer early. So it's like really dependent on where your team's at because that same player could be on a playoff bound team and he goes, you know what, guys, I'm going to put me in coach, I'm good. And from a medical perspective, he's been hurt this whole time, but now he's sort of, you know, at a certain level, let's say 70% that you can sign off on it as a medical person. Whereas you can also sign off on, hey, go off surgery.

So it's just such a gray area. It's so easy to, you know, go down the side of LTIR or surgery or there's the other way of I'm going to battle through this. So it's kind of a pace by case. And we always cherry pick the teams that are doing it to get better. That's the other funny thing, right? Like at the same, everyone is always, and now enough people make their job. jokes about the coyotes, but I looked at their cap friendly other day. Their actual salary is 52 million or whatever, right? They've got 25 million and not technically dead cap, but when you

look at Weber's contract and all the other things, we always get mad at the teams that do this to get better, but we don't spend our time ripping on the teams that do this to get worse. So it's kind of like, it's, if you're going to have it both ways, you should be yelling about both ways. I mean, I get why. If you're a fan of a rival team, like let's say, Oilers, I understand why it would be frustrated and be like, how does this team keep adding players? But I think, I honestly believe the frustration is being a bit misplaced and it should be more directed within because beyond the money stuff, what do we keep talking about with this Vegas team? They're constantly willing to move all their first and all their prospects. They're spending

so much money on and off the ice, on all the facilities and all of this stuff, but also in terms of not even thinking twice about handing out money left and right and using as much as they possibly can in all sorts of ways. And this is good stuff. This is, I think, what we want contenders to do to go all in on trying to win a cup. And then when you do, you're awarded for it. And so there's a lot of complications there, but I ultimately think like this is a model that there's a lot of things that should be emulated by other teams in terms of risk tolerance and the appetite for continuing to get better and trading good players for great players and never striving. We lament all the time how hockey is so conservative and also so

unambitious in a sense where teams are like, you know what, I like my team. I'll add a seven defenseman and we're good. And the golden nights have never taken that tact. And sometimes it doesn't work out. And I'm sure years from now, there's going to be a stretch of seasons where they pay the price for it. But for right now, they're doing exactly what a team in this competitive window should be doing. Well, and I wish, like, you look at one of the things that they do, and they've done it

more. I don't have the numbers, but they've done more than anyone else, is they're willing to play with 17 skaters. And as silly as it sounds, right? It's like, it's one cocky game. There's most nights a lot, like, okay, there's a lot of times teams are literally addressing playing a fourth line or seven, eight minutes anyway. So that team is basically playing 17 skaters anyway. That's a part of the rulebook anyone could do. We're like, we're going to live so close to the cap. Someone get hurt. Fine. We'll play one game with 17. Then we'll get a guy up for, for free again. that basically with the CBA rules on it. That's such a simple thing that anyone could do.

It's right there. Other teams do it. Occasionally another team will do it. And if one other team does it, it becomes a massive story about one team's like, oh, they're playing with 17. What are they going to do? And then you watch the hockey game and you don't remember at all. But Vegas does it like 12 times a year.

Anyone can do it. Like these are the things that they're part of the rules. They're part of the CBA. Everything's allowed. and instead of saying, okay, well, we need to figure out how to make sure we pay our fourth liner this much, we'll just make the top better. Like, I don't get, go ahead.

Well, the unfortunate reality that I was going to say, and I think my final point on this is there's a lot of teams in this league. Like, it seems so obvious. Like, all of these teams are printing money for the most part. And it seems so obvious to be like, yeah, you should invest in your product and put the best possible version of it out there. And yet, I think a lot of teams, the way they operate in this league is they're trying to spend the bare minimum to compete or whatever their definition is of that, to have an active lineup, while also making as much money as they can and being as profitable as they can. And the Golden Knights are very profitable, certainly, but they're also, like, it's very transparent.

You can see why the product is the way it is because they're willing to invest in it the way they have. And so I think that's a very important distinction. John, you got any final notes on the Golden Knights before we go to break here? Not really about the Golden Knights. I just want to circle back on one thing Sean noted before where he brought up the Arizona coyotes and the contrast between Vegas and Arizona. So this week became the week of retained salary. And of course, the one team that did not retain salary in moves that typically retained salary

now were the Arizona coyotes and they got worse picks because of it. But Jason Zucker deal is exhibit number one. I mean, that deal was a joke. That deal is a joke. And then having Insiders tweet about how the reason it was a pick is because the coyotes valued not retaining any salary. It's like, come on. Like you're a rebuilding team. You're not making the playoffs.

And they have so many second round picks that and not they would have gotten a second round pick even if they had retained on Zucker. Like that's a different conversation. But man, it's like if you're going to be bad, at least. spend a couple dollars here to make something more productive out of this season than you already are. And so I think that's very disappointing when you see stuff like that happen. Yeah, it was just such a transparent, obvious thing of the halves and have-nots of the league. You see what Vegas does over the last few days. You see what Arizona does when they're offloading a couple guys and just not getting market value

because they're not doing what everyone else is doing, which is basically paying for picks at this point. Yeah. Okay, guys, let's take our break here. And then when we come back, we'll jump right back into it. And we'll move off the Golden Nights and we'll start talking about some other teams and what they did at the straight deadline. You're listening to the HockeyPedio guest streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. Discussing the biggest stories that matter to Vancouver sports fans. Halford and Bruff in the morning.

Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're back here on the Hockey P-Dio cast, joined by John Mattis and Sean Shapiro. We are doing our 2024 trade deadline recap extravaganza. We spent pretty much the entirety of part one of the show talking about the Golden Knights and rightfully so. But I think now we can pivot here and cover some other teams. And sticking within the theme, I don't think any of their moves were necessarily as dramatic and talked about as the moves the Golden Knights made. But they weren't the only Western conference contender to improve their team. kind of engage in this arms race we're seeing of teams loading up.

And I want to talk about the stars. I want to talk about the abs, certainly. I want to talk about the jets. There's any number of teams in a number of directions we could take this. Sean, I'll give you the floor. And I'm tuned you up here to talk about the stars because obviously they're a team near dear to your heart. And so floor is yours. Yeah.

I mean, it's funny because we look at this. And obviously, I still have a pretty good following from stars fan people. and they were, it was interesting seeing some reaction today because there was a lot of people that were overreacting, not, I'll call it overreacting, they were overreacting to the stars not doing anything today. And that's kind of one of the funny things about the deadline season is you see things on Friday, the actual deadline, and then you kind of forget, like if the stars traded for TANF today hypothetically, right, all of a sudden we're talking about them, they're higher on that list of who did well today or whatever, but because they did it five, six days early,

earlier, it kind of gets buried by everything else. And it's funny, like, Dallas, to me, like I look at this team, the stars, and we've talked about potential moves they could have made and everything like that. And I think there's two big things with Dallas that people are kind of missing. One, we got the TAN of Trade done at, by doing it when they did, they got really good value for it. They didn't have to go and they didn't have to spend a first round pick. They didn't really give up much of anything. I actually looked at, like, I know for even the prospect they traded. I know our friends at EP Rinks side didn't even have minutes. I think they had me as a 16th best prospect or whatever they sent over. And then the other thing with Dallas, too, is you can,

and call me a Homer if you want for this, but if I told you could add a guy who had eight points in six games right before the deadline, and it cost you nothing, I mean, Logan Stankhoven, to me is one of the biggest ads of the deadline. The fact that Tyler Sagan got hurt and the fact that the stars basically, they didn't use LTIR, they just used regular IR to open up a spot. and all of a sudden this kid comes up and he's got and now you've added this this weapon to your lineup. That to me is one of the other big deadline moves for Dallas where I'd rather add a Logan Stakehoven to my team than a Yakov-Trennan, right? So it's Dallas is that interesting team where, yes, I still think you would have liked to add another defenseman. But it's funny seeing the reaction from Stars faithful and fans who still interact with me.

It's like, oh, we didn't do enough when Colorado and Winnipeg were doing all this. And I think they did, but I'll let you, I'll hear your thoughts on that. I'm curious for your take on this then because I'm not sure played into it because obviously I think they're waiting for like natural clearing of the way in terms of their like line up to create space for him. And so that's kind of why it took as long as did because obviously what he was doing this season in the HL. I think he was ready long before he actually got the call up.

But it worked out nicely where even if he plays in their remaining 18 games this season, that will cap him at 24 games, which will I believe make him called her eligible. next season. And so based on what we've seen so far, I think that's kind of a fascinating little carrot that's dangling in front of them in the future where I'm sure that's something that that's exciting and not that it's the be all end all, but the fact that that's actually an option is interesting for a guy who made the debut when he did this season. Well, he's now in a spot where he will probably still win the AHA rookie of the year this year. Based off, you look at the numbers and the stats, like I looked at that, like he's still probably going to

win the H.L rookie in the year this year. So now he doesn't have to compete with Connor Bidard and his rookie year for for that potential title in a year two. So I'm sure that is the mantle. They put room for two trophies on the mantle plays for that. I mean, in just six games, and his most recent one, albeit against the Sharks team that we just talked about, is not even trying to win games, although they had a bunch of players who at that point were clearly playing to get out of there. It's like, and do you declare watching them? I was like, I'm trying to score goals here, guys. Hey, I'm still in the league.

Why don't want to give me a shot for a playoff run? The performance that him and Wyatt Johnson had in that game to bring them back from that 6-3 deficit was like just like an unassailable masterclass on their part. And Stanco, when in particular, I tweeted the stats on that game. It was just like, it was unbelievable what he did. And watching me in these six games, the two of them at 5-on-5 together in 70 minutes or so, shots are 53, 24, high-dangered chance is 24, 12, goals 7 to 2 already. and Stankovina himself is just such a menace.

Like despite being the smallest guy on the ice, he's winning every single one of these battles. You can already tell that opposing defensemen absolutely despise him because he's so annoying. And I say that in a very endearing way, of course. I love his game. It's awesome to see it happen right away. I'm excited for the idea that maybe we can get some Maverick Bork reps

at some point as well, because I imagine, given the opportunity, he might not be as flashy offensively in this way, but I think he's going to be similarly productive. and impactful. And so that's really exciting. But John, it is a bit of a cop-out to be like, look at this ad. It's almost like when a player comes back from injury and it's like the biggest deadline

edition was this player getting healthy. It's like, all right, this is, that's apples and oranges. But I get what you're saying in terms of a couple weeks ago, this guy wasn't on the team. And now he is and he's already such a needle mover. And so in that sense, when you're just comparing how much better teams have gotten in this past little stretch, the stars have clearly with that and the addition of Tannet. have taken a massive step towards being a contender this year. Well, are they not a one-of-one team in the NHL as far as contending for a cup,

but having this window of like five to ten years where they could conceivably consent for the cup every single year? So it's kind of like what a Carolina did this year, where they finally said, you know what, we're sick of not buying rentals. We're going to go all in on Gensel, and this is a year that we finally pull the trigger on that big deal. It's almost like Dallas is in a similar. spot where maybe that's next year that they do that.

Maybe that's the year after because the runway here is so long. They literally skipped the rebuild by drafting so well in 2017 and then drafting so well in 2021. And obviously there's some players in between there in the other drafts, just drafting so well in general, especially for their slot every year in the first round, that it's really like tantalizing what they could become as far as a juggernaut. and I'm not going to say dynasty because you got to win some, some, you know, some cups to get to that point. But like there might not be a more healthy franchise as far as win now and you're all set up for the future.

Well, Sean, they've set themselves up for success. Certainly. I think part of that is also what John's mentioning there in terms of like the way the contracts are staggered as well, where like when they have to pay Wyatt Johnson and Jake O'Doninger next, I believe they have a bunch of money coming out the books. then when they have to re-up and pay Jason Roberts in long term, they'll have even more money coming off the books then. And obviously, Hayskin and hints are already there long term. And so all of a sudden, you can basically keep replenishing. And a part of that, as we talked about, is their unwillingness to move first,

where the only one they've moved in Jim Nill's entire tenure running this team, which spans a decade now, is the one they moved for Niels Lundquist. And that was a very unique situation where they clearly treated him as their own version of a first. And so I'm not sure if we ever will see that. And that TANF trade, they once again retained their first. But then you look since then, and I'm not sure if any 2024 first were moved. It seems like everyone was very actively prioritizing 25 and 26 firsts. We even saw a couple 2027 mid-round picks move, which is very exciting.

We're almost getting to the point where we're going to start seeing 2030 picks moved and we'll all feel very ancient. But I get it because everyone's saying after a certain range, this draft, it really falls off and a late first is not really being viewed as very valuable. I think that's a bit of a bit of a mistake or over dramatization because I'm sure once we get to June, everyone is going to want to get back into the first round because they're going to do their homework, they're going to fall in love with prospects and they're going to be like, oh, man, I would love to have a 27th overall pick right now so I could get this guy rather than sweating that he falls to 35. And so it's kind of the same song and dance we seem to do every year.

But we didn't see teams move 2024 first. And I'm not sure if we ever will see. the stars move there first at this point. And I can't blame them because they keep using it to add impact players that essentially just keep fueling this process for them. Yeah, I have two thoughts on this. And this is going to come partially. Obviously, I've covered Jim Nils a beat writer for a while and still have a good relationship from covering the stars, still even from afar now.

But one of the things that I think Jim Nill has done that a lot of GMs don't. And it's one of the reasons that he still has. He's the, what the third longest now where his current spot, I believe, after, Doug Armstrong and Sheffleday off, I think. And Sheffleday off, yeah, and Sheffle Day off, yeah. One of the things is Jim, Jim,

Jim Nell is a sane, and he said it multiple times, and he says his job as a GM is to care about the franchise today, tomorrow, five years and ten years from now. That's his go-to-sane. It's one of his go-to-sanes he always goes to. And I don't think a lot of GMs think about that five-year window,

because I think a lot of GMs realize the turnover, realize that, and a lot of times, like we look what Mike Greer's dealing with right now, you're dealing with the prior guy's problems. And so a lot of times when you're trading that 2027 pick, that 2028 pick, if you're still around to deal with that problem, great. But with the turnover in this league at the GM spot and the head coaching spot, too, you likely might not be around to deal with that spot.

So you're giving problems to the next guy. And so one of the reasons that Nill has kept his job and built Dallas into this spot is he's continuously looked at, okay, what is the five-year plan? What is the tenure plan? And part of that, I think also there's also an acceptance in Dallas. And this is one of those things that is a reality that a lot of franchises don't want to accept. Is getting in sometimes is just as good as winning for your owner's bottom line sometimes. And that's sometimes that people forget where getting, I think it's one, I think, I don't remember the exact number.

For most NHL teams, the line is to be profitable for the year. You typically have to get a home playoff series. and if you reach the second round, you're making money for your owner. Jim Nill has always kind of operated with that where the goal is to win the Stanley Cup, but at the end of the day, Tom Gilardi's main goal is also to have a team that's in it

and has a chance every year and is in that, when you put that 16 team bracket up, the stars are always in it. Nill looks at that where it's never been a, you go all in this year, because you do that, well, three years from now, either himself or the other guy,

he actually thinks about the next guy, we'll have a problem to deal with. And credit to them because as you said, John, like, they're in a spot where you go through and if you were to say, if you were to take, if I was to give you guys a scenario, it's like, okay, pick a team that will win the Stanley Cup in the next 10 years. And you're like, and you just had to pick based off, you'd probably pick Dallas based off what they have because you know there's a certainty. You know what? In those next 10 years, they'll be in the playoffs most of those years where there's other teams where like, okay, well, I may be like them this year, but I have no idea what two years from now. or there's a rebuild where you're like, I might like that team in five years,

but who knows if this guy's going to click? Like, it's really impressive with how Nilla has handled all this. And in a spot where, like, coaches and GMs, like, they get flipped so easily now. It's, it's really impressive to actually have someone who thinks about,

oh, hey, this is going to be a problem in five years from now. If I'm here or not, it needs to be dealt with now. And that's very unique, I think, in how the hockey world deals. Like, them in Vegas are two very different things in how they deal with it. I was listening to Chris Tannav talk.

He had like an interview throughout the trade deadline, right? They like bring on players who have been traded recently and they're asking them about their new fits and all that stuff and kind of like, it's a lot of softball question, certainly. But me, he made an interesting point. I thought about like the roster composition of this team where it's so tiered in such a diverse way where like you're like you're hitting all these checkpoints along the way, but it's also guys who are all almost equally valuable. I would argue at this point certainly that the.

younger players in that demographic are the ones driving the bus much more so than the veterans were still hanging on with this team. But they obviously have their value in terms of reputation and leadership and everything they meant to organization. And still, the season's Sagan was having before he got hurt was very valuable as well. But it is interesting how they've kind of put that together and setting themselves up for success. I would have liked to see them add one more defenseman here and like someone who can legitimately even push for a second pairing gig because I

I'm very concerned about having to rely on Ryan Suter and Yanni Hockampah in the playoffs, even in a third pairing role potentially when you're playing the avalanche, the Golden Knights, the Oilers, which are all teams that they will have to go through at some point if they want to make it to the Stanley Cup final because they just cannot handle that speed. And so I'm nervous about that. Now I'm very curious to see how they used Henev, Sean, because in his debut, and it's remarkable that he's only played one game for this team so far because it feels like he was acquired another lifetime ago

and it makes me nervous about, I don't know if you saw this, but Jake Allen has to figure out his visa situation as well to go from playing for the Canadians, the devils. And I'm like, oh, man, I hope it's resolved more quickly than Tad has because the season's going to expire here pretty soon if it's a replica of this saga.

But they used it with... Wait, real quick, on the visa thing. Okay, go for it. Fine, go ahead. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say, it's funny on the visa thing. because it's a Friday issue. I don't know if, like, I was talking to someone from Dallas about this.

They traded for TANF on basically at the end of a week. And you can't really get, they don't do the U.S. visa offices essentially don't do much work on Fridays. And so if you make a trade on Friday, like New Jersey did for Allen today, you got to find someone to do you a favor to get somebody to come into work today or this weekend. Otherwise, it's not hitting someone's desk until 9.30, 9 a.m. on Monday morning. hockey players. They're just like us. They used them with Lundell in that debut against the sharks. And I think part of that is in service of just keeping Harley and Hayeskin

together and getting them more reps. And I think they're going to explore with different options. I'm curious to see if they play him with Hayeskin at some point to bump him to his strong side. I've written a lot about how I think the best thing about Tana this season was what he did for Noah Hanofin and just making life easier for him and like helping him have easier breakouts and get to use his skating ability. And that would be awesome next to Thomas Harley as well.

So I think they're going to try all this stuff. And to your point, that's why you do that move when you did, because it gives you an opportunity to integrate and test stuff before you get to game on to the postseason. But as much as I like this team and I think they got better, that was no one concern. But I'd quickly talk about the abs. John, I did a full show on them yesterday. So I don't want to really talk that much about the middle stat, uh, Byron move or even the Walker one. But since then, they used the remaining space they had to bring in Yakov Tren

and to bring in Brandon Dehame, were very Colorado Avalanche players in terms of their forechecking and like size and speed and ability to just like overwhelm you with that. So I really like what they did. I think they were one of the clear winners at this trade airline. But do you have any kind of notes on them or things to watch for with them in trying to integrate these four players? because they made a lot of moves and have to figure that out in short order here before they get to their postseason. I mean, my first thought when I was looking at the ads before the trade deadline or before this week, I should say, is that they're incredibly top-heavy, and that's just the way things go when you're trying to win the cup and just won the cup a couple, couple years ago. But the drop-off from the McKinnons and Rantanins of the world, especially when Valen-Nachushkin wasn't around because he was in the player,

assistance program. I mean, it was, it was pretty stark. So obviously Casey Millsett does a, does a good job filling that 2C spot or wherever he ultimately ends up. And then, you know, guys like Trennan and Duhame, they push guys who shouldn't be on their third and fourth line into the press box. So I think that's, I think that's fair. I think that's smart business.

I was wondering if they were going to add a backup goalie because, you know, if Gorgiev goes down. I don't know what they're going to do. I thought, you know, maybe not necessarily Jake Allen, but someone of that ilk, a veteran that you know you can at least throw out there and, and rely on to some extent. So it feels a little incomplete, the avalanches deadline, but I really like that middle stat trade for Byram, I think has a very high ceiling. So overall, I'm pretty happy with what they've done. I think they would have done Mark Andre Flurry if he was willing to move. I thought Alex Nadekovich would have made sense

from like an upside perspective where this guy could actually push Gordon Jorgia for starts if things go well as opposed to just your generic kind of. This guy is a 34-year-old who's been around the league for a long time. But maybe they felt that that didn't really satisfy then the insurance, I guess, in terms of having that veteran presence. So I'm not sure why they didn't. I think Adonin's played well recently.

Proz of Tops back in the HL. We'll see. But yeah, Sean, and I'll let you jump in here. But in thinking about their moves, I think the avalanche, what they do better than almost anyone else in this league is, like, have a strong understanding of what they're good at, and then bring in players who double and triple down on that and really turn a strength into an even bigger strength, right?

Like, obviously, you're not going to be able to be like, all right, well, McKinnon and McCar are cool. Let's bring one of those guys because they're not available. But the physicality, and not in terms of just big players, but guys who can skate and then leverage for checking the way we've seen, like, Nchuschen come in, Lekin and the success they've had, Colton, even Woods been good for them this year in that role. That's what they're going to get with Trennan in particular, who's just an absolute beast as a forechecker. And so that's what I appreciate about them, where like, Middlestad and Walker are so good off the rush. And they're just really, some teams are so worried about having a weakness and then trying to get players that can cobble that together and put a band-aid. on it. And in their case, they're trying to fill all their holes with guys who do exactly

what they're already good at because it's going to put them in a position to step right in and just keep the good times going. They're very much run, they're kind of, they're kind of run similar to a basketball team with rotations almost when you look at the avalanche play. The way they, the way they kind of, you could say like you could throw out, if you're a deep basketball team, you'd throw out a second unit that would run the exact same style thing. That's kind of how they're running. It fits well, too. Like, we talked about the forecheck, but like, you look in the offensive zone, right?

The avalanche run those little pick plays better than almost anyone in the league. Like, you watch them on, and when I was in lived in Dallas and covered the central, you saw it all the time in person where a lot of it is they have that immense speed from McKinnon and McCarr that comes off of it. But even their third and fourth line, everyone kind of gets it. This is, it's all about the spatial manipulation in the zone. and that's something that is like it's funny where they have

obviously McKinnon is a different animal than anyone else. That's fine. But it's also not a spot where there's a different playbook for everyone else when he's on the ice. And I think that's something that there are some teams or different lines of identities and I think there are pros to that.

But I think in Colorado there's a spot where if you're the first line, the second line, the third line, the fourth line, other than a little changes based off whether you're with McKinnon or whatever, everyone kind of has the same job. And I think that's, we sometimes undervalue that. We don't realize that.

And I think that's also one of the reasons. Like, I talked to Andrew Cagliano when earlier this season about when he went in there and he talked about, I know he's a veteran player. It's normal for him, for a guy to come in and for a veteran to easily fit in. But he talked about how one of the things that made it easier for guys to come in and join the abs was that concept where you step in. and it's not like, well, your third line, you have to do this, or you're playing with this guy, you have to do this. You know there's the exceptions for you let Nathan McKinnon be Nathan McKinnon,

but other than that, you play avalanche hockey, which is a terrible way to phrase it, but I'm going to use it. No, I like that. Well, and, you know, there's certainly a theme there, not to go back to the Golden Knights for too long, but there's a connection there where Bruce Cassie is a very defined system. Everyone who steps on the ice as a golden knight knows exactly what he wants from you. okay, I don't care if the other team has the puck in our zone a ton as long as it's not getting near our slot area. Like he literally does not care if the defense of his own time is like through the roof.

But then he wants, you know, to pressure the puck and turn the puck and go the other way and be a rush team. And it's, you know, if it's obvious to us, it's certainly obvious to the players. That's how you play. It doesn't matter if you're the first liner or fourth liner. And I think it's pretty obvious that Jared Bednar has a similar. effect on on the style as far as this is how we play you know you can throw rod brindamore and carolina in there and you know there's a lot of success between those three teams so there's something to be said for the identity and the plug and play aspect of it because you know a lot of let's face it

a lot of the players that are in the league that are safe from like the 600 best 600th best player and the 750th they're roughly the same like in terms of talent level so if you can just take one guy and put him in and then, okay, he's up for a deal and then take another guy, put him in and he's up for a deal and just rotate through them. That can be super beneficial. I like that. Okay, let's end with this and then we're going to take a break and we'll switch gears and talk about other teams. But while we're on this topic of Central Division powerhouses, we talked about the stars, we talk about the a abs. We need to talk about the Jets as well. And I thought heading into today in particular, they sort of made their first big move getting Wanahan a while ago.

but I thought they had to do something more to sort of account for the fact that they're two biggest competitors and the likelihood that, I mean, they're certainly going to play one of them in round two if they win round one, but they also,

depending on how these finals 20 games go, might have to play either the stars or the afts in round one as well, depending on how the central shakes out, they had to do something to keep up. And they went out and they got Tyler Tofoyi. I thought they were honestly going to go really big game hunting for Pavel Bucenevich,

because he would have made a lot of sense for two years for them. They did it, Buchenevich didn't move, but they got to Foley. And it's funny because every time around, whether it's like the summer, free agency or the trade headline, guys like this sort of fall through the cracks and everyone's like, well, scoring wingers like this generally don't have as much of a market, right? Defensemen get juiced. Center certainly wingers like this, particularly ones who aren't like true superstars aren't valued as highly by teams.

And you kind of saw that here where the jets get him for a third in a second. And at least when I saw this trade, I was like, all right, well, the second. I know that Winnipeg's holding on a Montreal second this year. And so that's pretty much a late first. So I was like, that's not too bad for New Jersey. And then I found out it's actually Winnipeg's 2025 second. And I was like, that's a really cheap price that everyone should have been in on. The Jets were able to get him.

And he's going to fit perfectly, John, for this Jets team because all of a sudden now, if Gabe Vilardi can get back on the ice and stay on the ice, and that's a big if. But if he can, all of a sudden now, they have a top six where, they can bump Vladimir Messnikov and Alex Ayafalo out of those top two scoring lines. And I don't know how many more times I can talk about Nick Healer's not being on the first line on this podcast. Like it's really, it's really becoming overkill at this point. Like a parody at this point. It really is.

But the point that I'm trying to make here, and I'm not going to delve into that too much, is that if they're not going to play him on the first line, at least they gave him a shooter in Monaghan first and now in Tafoli, where all of his brilliant playmaking and passing can actually be rewarded and utilize correctly. You watch him dance around, pass it into the slot for a great one-timer, and it goes to Vladna Mesnikov, and he misses the puck or shoots it into the chest of the goal, and you're like,

ah, it would have been nice if an actual skilled player was there with all due respect to Vladimir Mesnikov. And now Tafoli is going to be doing that. And so I think that's really cool. So it makes this make a lot more sense. And obviously, he's a great 5-15 score. he's going to do all the little stuff that the Jets value as well. And so it's a phenomenal fit for both Topholi and the Jets.

Well, for the longest time, shovel day off was Mr. Conservative, right? And when you look at a big picture over the last, I mean, if you want to loop in Nina Ryder and Nemesnikov from last year, like he's thrown, what, six new bodies in the top 12 of their former group, Tofoli, Monaghan, Iafalo, you know, Kupari, when he's. he plays Filardi there's just a bunch of new bodies there and I think they're all pretty useful.

I don't see any misses there and they're all getting acclimated and obviously getting Monaghan ahead of the curve here even though they end up paying a first when other teams close to the deadline didn't pay that kind of premium for his type of player.

I think it all kind of works out in the end as far as the net team that he has or at least the net forward group I think it's pretty formidable. You talked about that top six, and the trickle-down effect is pretty immense. Really, you never really want to have Vladim Mastikov on your top line, let alone your top two lines. But he's like a perfectly fine, he's actually quite competent, say, fourth-line center.

So if he can end up in his natural position as just one example, I think that's phenomenal. And I don't know. they've done a really good job here where say if you go back to the summer and they sign Hellebuck and Shifley you know I wasn't thinking oh this is this is you know Winnipeg's year so if you if you kind of fast forward to now and the things they've done and how well they've played overall it's pretty remarkable where they find themselves well now with their depth the structured defensive environment the goaltending like there's a lot to like with this team my question would have been in a series against Colorado or Dallas.

Can they generate enough offense? I think with this top six, the way it's constructed, healthy. I think they actually have a shot of doing so. So I thought it was a really good move. And Sean, I'm curious for your take on this and we'll wrap here. Like the Rangers clearly prioritized adding a center in Alex Wemberg with that market really shrinking earlier this week. And then they wound up getting kind of circling back to and getting Jack Rosowitz

from the Blue Jackets as well. I know they were in on Gensel and it seems like they were kind of the finalist before Carolina ultimately won out. I really wonder whether they were ever interested in Tofoli and whether that was an option because I think as a top six right wing, he would have been perfect for them. But now there's the geographical element of I'm sure the devils wouldn't necessarily want to help them out. And the reason why I bring that up is because we just saw the flames, refuse to trade to anive to the Oilers, trade Hannafin to the Golden Knights. and if we're putting this all together and you're telling me the geographical pettiness was a big factor of this year's trade deadline, then I'm willing to accept that as an answer.

But that's really interesting to me because I think every contender should have been in on to Foley at this price. And especially if 50% retained, most of them could have accommodated it if they had prioritized it. But clearly, it was sort of a last resort thing. And that was to the Jets benefit. Well, I do wonder, too, whether the 50% retained. Like, I wonder what part of this would have been the in-division tax or the in-conference tax, right? Like, I truly, I know people like to say, oh, you make the best trade possible. But in general, there is, the devils aren't trading a guide to the Rangers without

a premium, without putting some sort of premium on it. It's the same thing where it's like, if you look at like the oilers and, in the flames. Like, I think there's only been like three or four trades between the teams in, in the history of the franchise. So it's, it's a space, right, where there definitely was, like, every contender should have been on this, but what would the price have been? That's, it's actually kind of what made the, for me, it was just interesting to see kind of the wild, the wilds trade deadline was interesting, just seeing them basically just kind of giving all these pieces to like other teams of the central and seeing Nashville doing the same thing with,

with trend into Colorado, seeing a couple teams where, and maybe because geographically the Central is not like, if you're in New Jersey, right, if you trade to Foley to the Rangers, that media market all of a sudden, you're seeing them front page of the paper, right? The predators in the wild aren't reading whatever it's in the Denver Post or whatever, right?

So I wonder if there's something to that. Are you planning if people still read newspapers in 2024? That's the wildest take on a podcast, though, I'd like to hope some people do, okay? No, people, people just listen to podcasts and radio shows, man. Come on, everyone knows that. All right, fellas, let's take our break here, and then we come back. We'll pick things right back up.

You're listening to the HockeyPedio cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. The most opinionated Canucks show out there. Connect talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drans. Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We are back here on the Hockeypedio guest with John Mattis, Sean. Shapiro guys I don't know about you but I'm loving this I'm having a great time I feel like the undertaker right now I was in the casket getting ready to close it on me and I popped up and and I'm ready to go feeling rejuvenated so let's keep the fun times going um I want to talk about

jgensel I want to talk about the Carolina hurricanes it was the saga that sort of held this week hostage in a way because it seemed like the penguins were going to move him and then they just had this like absolutely soul-sucking weekend in Western Canada where they blow that game late to the flames, and then they just get absolutely pummeled by the Oilers. And I think at that point, they like put even publicly acknowledge, like, yeah, we're going to move Jake Ansel this week really soon. Let's get it done in a couple days. And then it dragged on all the way to the eve of trade deadline on Thursday night because I think there was a lot of interested parties. I think they were trying to figure out and they obviously realized the significance of the move. Now, none of us three

are prospects analysts by any means. So I don't think we're going to. going to focus that much on what the penguins got back. It seems very clear that they prioritize not only a quantity of assets, but also players who are further along in their development, because guys in their early 20s already playing in pro leagues are probably more likely to step in and actually contribute for cheap to this team over the next couple of seasons, as opposed to a 2026 pick or even an 18 year old, 19 year old now that's going to take years to do so. So I get all that. That's all well. And yet, I know people were underwhelmed by the return. But let's talk about Gensel and the fit here with the hurricanes.

And I think the point that I find most interesting, what a big win this is for them both on and off the ice, right? Because this is a team that we've always talked about how shrewd they are from a business perspective. They put a very sort of particular price on how they value everyone and they're just really not willing to budge off of it. And that's good because it's allowed them to maintain a lot of flexibility and cap space. and like you look at their cap sheet, it's very well maintained. And so it affords them a lot of opportunities. But the issue is that sometimes teams aren't rational when it comes to big name star players when they're available.

And so you get to a spa where there's always going to be another team that's like, you know what? I'm willing to pay more than I probably even should because I just want to add this guy. Like I want to try to win a Stanley Cup right now and reward my star players. And so I'll do it. And the hurricanes don't really behave that way. And for them to not, they didn't overpay, but they won out on Jay Gents. who was being pursued by the Rangers, the Golden Knights, the Panthers, even the abs were in there

at some point, the Canucks. These are like big market teams that really wanted to get them, and yet the current hurricanes were able to actually win out. And I know they've won other trades before and they've brought in other players, but I just think this is an entirely different level of it from an interest perspective league-wide and also from a specific skill set perspective where this guy is a legitimate top-flight score that gives them something that they've badly craved the past couple years. So I think it's just obviously a slam dunk, but I'll let either of you jump in here right

now and talk about either the hurricanes or Gensel. Yeah, I think, and I'll let John hop on this quickly too, but like the thing that is interesting to me about the way the hurricanes approach things is it is part of it is they're shrewd, right? They don't like dealing with the rentals market. We've heard that for years now. But the other part of it is the way they play. We talked about team identities earlier.

in this show, right? Like, one of the things that they do from, that Rod Brendamor likes from the beginning I've always heard is he likes having his, he feels that you build your team identity over the course of the season. So when you're, it's not the type of team where, um, you, he likes kind of building that cohesion and building that that identity through the season. It's someone, it's like, we don't, if some, it's hard to, that 60 games of the 55 games of experience playing with the hurricanes, how are you going to replace that by someone who's probably a similar level player. And to me, that's kind of, and with A, Gensel, you look at him, like, okay, he's a guy I could see playing with the Hurricanes. It shows how much A that, and then there's that one. And then

there's also the interesting thing about, and it kind of connects to this, and I'll just bring it up because it's important, is there's also the Kuznetsov deal, too, where you're like, okay, he's a guy who we know, and I think, John, you know I might even, you know I'm maybe part of one of those scrums at All-Star in Florida two years ago, where all of a sudden, Rod Brendamore is like, about Evgeny Kuznetsov, just like talking about how much he loved coaching him in a random three-odd-three showcase. So to me, this whole deadline is, it's Don Waddell's the GM, but it's so much more shows how much Rodbrennimore gets his guys.

Yeah, there's that. And I think there's also just this small inner circle in Carolina where they're pretty slim staff. You've got Tom Dunn and the owner in the room at, you know, these major moments, draft, all that kind of stuff for agency. you've got Rod Brindermore in there for these discussions. He's not in the coach's office, just mining his own business. I mean, he's there.

Waddell obviously is pulling the trigger on a lot of this. Eric Tulski's there, Darren York. Like they have, it's like their assistant GMs, their GM, their coach, their owner. And obviously other people are involved, but like that's kind of the inner circle. And I think all of them bring different things at the table. And I think it's, there's obviously some principles there, right? And I just think it must have come down to, I don't know, if it was someone in the room necessarily, but like they must have come to some sort of conclusion

that like this guy is worth, you know, us kind of breaking our own rule of playing it safe or of being really efficient or whatever it is. And don't get me wrong. I still think that they got Gensel for a pretty good price, but it's still, since he's a rental, it's kind of going against the grain of what they think. But they could have, you know, again, Circle of Trust or creating this scene maybe, this fake scene, where it's very possible that they just thought, like, he's perfect. He's exactly what we need. A winger who can finish. A winger who's around the net all a time. I mean, I looked it up earlier. Gensel's second in the entire league and expected goals per game. And he's fourth in the league and inner slot shots per game. Like, he is always around

the net. He's small, but he's incredibly smart. He has great hands. And this is not going to be news to people who follow the penguins and, you know, maybe hardcore NHL fans. I know a lot about Gensel, but he's all those things and he's incredibly smart. And, you know, he's been tied to Crosby basically his whole career, but he's been a huge part of Crosby's career in a lot of ways, too. And I just, I just think so highly of Gensel and the fit where you slide him into that lineup, whether it's with Sebastian Ajo or Marty Natchez or maybe even Jordan Stahl. Like, they can get really creative here as far as who he ends up playing with and who he helps drive a line with. And it just became, I think it just became time to go all in.

And that sounds like it's simplifying, but it does really seem like that's the case. Five years in, six years into this Rod Brindamor era, they decided to pull the trigger. Well, I think they knew internally, at least to some degree, they could not justify a replica of last year's trade deadline where I was like, we made shrewd moves. We basically got Shane Gosses bear for free and we took a chance on. Hissie Puli RV. And that's all well and good. But then when you keep bumping into the same issues in the postseason and you're this successful and you're just wasting year after year without trying to change something in that regard, it's tough to reconcile that. So I think they knew that they

had to do something here certainly. And we'll talk more about Gensel here. But one final point about the hurricanes that I want to make was like for all the diligence in terms of managing the cap and accumulating assets and you see it in a trade like this where they just have so many prospects to move. I know people like the prospects that they moved. And yet at EP ringside, Sean, they were like the hurricane's 9th, 13th, and 18th best prospect, according to our staff of analysts. And the reality is very few teams could have matched that without getting into like their top couple guys. And they weren't willing to do so for a rental.

But the thing is, is like, if you're going to maintain all that space and have all these assets, at some point you need to consolidate them and make that push that you guys are describing. otherwise, what was it for? And so they kind of acknowledged this was the case that where they could do so. And I wouldn't be surprised at all. I know they haven't really talked extension

with him yet if he stays in a long term because I do think the fit is going to be that good. And so it makes a ton of sense in that regard. And I really like it. Now, from his perspective, what I think is interesting is it's almost, it's a bitch.

I think he's getting knocked a little bit because he's been so attached to Crosby. And Crosby's like being in his orbit and his greatness. it's it's easy to dismiss Gensel, right? It's like, oh, well, of course he played with Crosby. He's not going to get to play with a Crosby here in Carolina. But if he plays with Sebastian Aho, that's a pretty good spot.

And I think, if anything, the fact that he was so good with Crosby makes me feel confident, confident that he's going to be good with an Ajo or whoever he plays with here atop the lineup, because to fit with Crosby, you need to have a certain level of, like, intelligence and hockey IQ to know where to go and to play off of them and kind of have this force multiplier effect where like you make him even better and then you guys can make music together and riff. And so taking that and then putting it in the system and play with Ahio, I think he's going to be awesome. Like not only does he give him that scoring, but John, as you mentioned, I think he's top five to ten in slot shots, inner slot shots,

rebound chances, deflections, cycle chances. He basically does everything that hurricanes want to do, except he does so in a more tactful way where he's very selective. He relies on timing and patience and getting open in the slot. And so all of that stuff is something exactly they need. So I really want to see how it works out. And if he can sort of drag them more towards that, which has been obviously our big quibble here on the PDO cast for a couple of seasons now.

I also I hate when we always see these times or it's Gensel or whatever another player like someone plays with a top player right and all of a sudden we hold it against them like oh well he only did this because he played with that guy it is a talent to be able to play with top players that's something that I feel like we

we underrate in the narrative all the time I always play with Crosby okay well if anyone could play with Crosby then he wouldn't have been Jank Gensel for six years or whatever it was right like at some point it would have been he would have been easily replaced by someone else. There is an inherent talent to being able to play with top talent, if that makes any sense

at all. I realize that's a mouthful of words. But it is, you go through and you see that. And I think with Gensel, I'm just fascinated because I think, as you said, like an Ajo, you put him there. I think it'd be great to see. It's going to be interesting to see the plug and play level of, like, I think Gensel is the type of guy who you could probably plug and play with anyone.

I think he does have that type of chemistry. I think his game is someone where you could put him with any top player and he would have success. And just because he's more of the finisher, the guy going to the dirty areas, we don't really, in the larger narrative, we like, we give credit to the other guys on the line when he deserves so much more credit for it. So I love this move. That's just me just raving about this move for Carolina. And also what he does, John, he scores a 5-15 at a high level. he does so efficiently. I know that his efficiency in terms of like when you compare it to the quality of chances that

him and Crosby have him creating, it actually, he's been a little inefficient most recently because like the expected goals, as you mentioned, are so high because he's getting so many high danger chances and he's actually expected to score even more than he has. But he's still been like a 15% shooter for his career. And so he's scoring a 5-15 efficiently from the dangerous areas of the ice. And I think also in this ties into Cousnetsov as well here because obviously different players certainly and not nearly the caliber at this point. But like his passing metrics are still pretty good this season,

even though he struggled at everything else. And both these guys have bad defensive metrics. And I feel like very confident that this system can insulate them in that regard, certainly. But also in Kuznetsov's case, I feel like if there was a question of motivation as to why he slipped, there's no better motivator than Rodbrenemore as well. And so I can kind of see why they were willing to take that chance.

I was actually a bit surprised that there was a taker for good and that's off of that price, even at 50%, let alone the fact that the capitals were able to get a third round pick out of it. That surprised me a little bit. But the hurricanes are clearly playing with How's money here and wanted to take a shot on a theoretical skilled player still. And so it makes sense in that regard. And I'm very curious to see how it all shakes out. But this is huge because people have been saying that I've been too critical of the hurricanes

the past couple of years, right, of their playing style of the fact that I think that it's not an accident they keep bumping into the same issues and there is a ceiling in terms of the way they play. But if anything now, if Gensel can come in and change that fundamentally and start scoring more goals and winning playoff series for them, I feel like all of a sudden I'm going to be back in and that's going to vindicate everything we've been saying.

So all of a sudden now, we're very attached to this idea that Jake Gensel can fundamentally change the way this team operates offensively. And I'm very curious to see how that plays out the rest of the season. Now, well, they get saves in the playoffs too. right that's the other the other thing that's always nagged at them but is clearly the part of their overall strategy to do is to just throw a couple guys in ned and it i just found it hilarious is the wrong word but like uh interesting fascinating that they brought back anderson and ranta after

they had already been like injured all of last year and we're like yeah of course we want you back we're not going to change this up and then they both get injured again it's like this is the most predictable thing ever but they're totally comfortable with it it's just a very uh hurricanes thing to do. Yeah, I will say the Kuznetsov thing though, Sean, the ownership of this group, and I think generally like the whole organization, they love to be the smartest people in the room. And they love buying low on players because they're like, well, we can, we can get better out of them. And they can because they have this infrastructure, Rod Brindamore, the system they play, like a certain type of player, I think can look much better here than they do elsewhere.

And so I think that's, you have to acknowledge that's a part of it here as well where like, I think they would, they certainly love to compete and get more out of this player. But I think just as satisfying for them would be like a little victory lap in terms of, all right, we found a guy and no one else thought had it anymore. And all of a sudden, look, we're very smart. We did it. No, I mean, they did.

I mean, one of the two of the guys that they waived now, one's not a forward, one's a defenseman, but they waived two guys that were to open up roster spots that, that one caduce of took and then I guess whatever he's officially held against he'll take the spot too but when with DiAngelo and Lemieux

and you wave both of them those are both guys that you only take because you're like oh I we still think there's something that we can do that no one else saw and if that's

and maybe that's the maybe that's what they did with the goalies too John maybe that's how they looked at it they're like ah like everyone else saw this in the playoffs last year but we saw something different

so I don't know I'm curious to see what happens with Gensel here from a contract perspective because I think they I think they would like to retain him. I imagine they might actually also just want to see how this goes. It'll be curious, well, Gensel is looking for himself. But he's in such a unique spot where he's going to be 30, right? And he's only played 500 games so far because he started kind of late.

And he's been playing this entire time on this sort of sweetheart $6 million deal where since then you look and like this year, He was like the 90th highest paid forward or something. And so he's probably looking at it being like, well, this is my last chance to really get a big contract and get paid. And I'm not sure if that would come from Carolina. But they at least have the option to do so because you look at their cap sheet. And with the amount of money coming off the books the next two years, they can do whatever they want here. So I would necessarily say they're very likely to pay top dollar to keep cancel long term.

But also if he scores a bunch of goals for them and does all the stuff that we just talked about stylistically, at least they reserve the right to do so. And I imagine that was part of the logic for going after a guy like this, as opposed to your sort of traditional paying for a big name rental. Well, look, you know, good market, great fan base, good organization, good weather. Like, there's a lot to like about Carolina, especially they've been on such stable ground the last five years or so. So it's possible that he takes a minor haircut to stay in Carolina if they offer something

long term. The other thing about Carolina, too, and it's something, someone made this comparison. I was talking to somebody about this around, I think it was around, that's the stadium series, where somebody compared Carolina to Lou Lamarillo in this way, where one of the things, like, you hear all these stories about Lou Lamarillo, but this person I was talking to said, here's the thing about Lamarillo. You know who he is. Going into the room, you know who he is.

He has his rules. He has all this, but there's no door A when it's really door B. It's always right in front of you. And I think that's another thing that's a real. Carolina isn't is up front about who they are. It's that they are going to, they're going to be, they're not going to spend a ton on things. They're going to have a smaller staff.

They're going to do this and that. But they're not hiding it. And I think that's something where this, this person from the league I was talking about, they're like, well, the hurricanes, you can rip on them for that, but they are honest about who they are and they're not trying to hide it. And as a player, and whether it's an agent or a player or whatever,

you're dealing with that, that can be kind of comforting because if they say, okay, we're doing X, they're going to do X as opposed to, well, we might do X and then the other team does Y and Z. So that's an important thing, I think, with the way the hurricanes are run that they deserve credit for too because there is a self-awareness and honesty of this is who we are, this is this brain trust, but it's not some, there's not some hidden one pulling strings. I can point to who's doing everything. Okay, guys, let's take a break here. It's going to be our final one. And then we come back, We're going to close strong and hit on a few other topics from this year's trade deadline.

You're listening to the Hockey, GEOCast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. Hitting the most important topics for Vancouver sports fans. The People's Show with Big Nazar. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We are back here on the Hockeypedo cast, Sean Shapiro, John Mattis. We're going to close out strong here for our trade deadline recap. Cam. Guys, let's try to hit through a couple of other topics here on the way out.

I think I want to quickly talk about the Panthers because I thought they had a great week now. They didn't necessarily make a ton of big moves, right? They started off the trade frenzy on Wednesday morning, getting platinum, or sorry, Flat Tarasenko. I got Vladimir Messnikov and the Jets on the mind. They got Vlad Tarasenko paid a very small price for him because he had a full moon move clause and he clearly wanted to go there. And so that Sends didn't have a lot of leverage.

but I really like adding him because my one concern about them, and I know they got away with the last post season, was like, I don't love Nick Cousins playing in this scoring role, and all of a sudden now he gets bumped down to the fourth line. The scoring lines make much more sense. Everyone falls in a place. They bring in Kyle Cposo for super cheap as well, and I think he's still got some juice left, particularly defensively,

and he's going to be playing a fourth line on this team. I think that's totally fine. But I think the biggest move of all was getting Gus Forsling signed for eight years at under $6 million the way they did. because he is a bona fide, number one, defenseman. He doesn't score as much as a lot of the other elite guys at his position, but he does everything that's just as impactful to put them in positions to do so. His on-ice numbers this year are preposterous.

I'm very curious to see Nora's voting at the end of the year to see if anyone has actually been paying attention and it gives him some fifth place votes or something just to reward him for it because he has been that good this year. But they alleviate a headache, right? Because I think a lot of us were thinking, all right, what's going to have? happen this offseason and next summer. They have so many guys to pay so little money to divvy out. They get him at this below market deal. All of a sudden now they can probably more easily justify overspending a little bit to retain Sam Reinhardt, figuring out what they do next summer with their guys. And so I thought it was great. They had a phenomenal week in that regard. They

got even better. And honestly, we just talked about the hurricanes and how much better they got. I still keep thinking this Panthers team is maybe the best team in the league, but certainly in the East and they've been doing it for the past 30 games or so. And I can't really find any flaws with a resume right now, like, especially you watch them play and statistically it backs it up. There's no weaknesses on this team right now. They're just that good in every single area. Even before they made all these moves, I saw them in person last week when they came to Detroit.

And that was at the time where everyone was, there was a lot of the, it was moved to a national TV game. There was all this talk of like, oh, this could be a first round matchup, but between Detroit and Florida and everything like that. And it was the second, no, third time I've watched Florida in person this year. And you're watching that game in Florida just completely outclass Detroit. And you're watching them in person. It was one of those where that was even before they made these moves.

And you're like, okay, this is the most complete team I've seen all year. This team top to bottom. And this is before they made those moves. And then they go out and they add. And this is a team where you're looking and you're watching like, okay, this team could win the cup. Before they add anything. And then they do that. Like it is even before the four is.

trade, like, he's, he's a hell of a player. And so you're also telling me fifth place votes is how I prove I pay attention. That's something else. I'll keep that, I'll keep that in mind. Listen, I'm just saying, if you want to prove that you're a true pocknoer, I think reward Gus forces accordingly is a strong way to do so. There's certainly other ways in my heart, but I'm just saying that's a pretty easy one there.

The best thing about that deal, so I believe it's eight years, 5.75 per year. the best part is that they know what they have in Gus Foresling because Brandon Montour was out and Aaron Eggblad was out for an extended period. It's rare that your sort of guy who's on the second pair who might become your first pair guy, you actually see him audition for that role. And so we hit out of the park with that and they reward him, but it's still not this crazy cap hit, especially as things rise. And he's coming off of a cap hit of basically 2.7.

it's quite incredible and you know i'm sure you've talked about this before demetrielae their pro scouting is uh is quite impressive between you know forsling was a waivers claim um ecvin larsen they got into trade and i realize that he's kind of blended into the into the scenery um montours from outside the organization obviously you know reinhard bennett for hagi like the vast majority of their team, you look at them and go, you know, first of all, well, well oiled machine, as Sean point out, and metrics are just off the charts, underlying metrics, you know, just goals and for and against. And then you look at individual players and you go, like, they know how to pick a player in another organization that's going to work for whatever reason in, in their style

of play or in their cap structure or whatever the case may be. It's, it's really a masterclass in in pro scouting at this point. With Gus Forreling on the ice had even strength this season, and this is over 1,100 minutes. They're up 55 to 25 this year. He is just absolutely dominating. And you mentioned the cap hit.

I believe that makes him like the 50 second highest paid defenseman next season. And so he will certainly exceed that based on value. I get why a player who was once a waiver pickup infamously is very happy to have the long-term security of 46 million to look forward to playing in a place he clearly enjoys quite greatly and they're building something special there so I totally get all of that. You know, my one final note here on the Panthers and Sean, I actually think you tweeted this.

I'm going to steal it and not really acknowledge it. I'm going to pass it off as my own thought. Okay, okay. You keep thinking of all these playoff matchups and it's like, man, the Panthers and I watched the game yesterday against the Flyers. I'm like, this is pretty fun. Oh, they're really fun against the Red Wings. Oh, they're really fun of wins this team against that team.

I think the Panthers are just fun. Like, I think they're just this team where they're going to create a fun atmosphere against anyone they play with. And part of it is because of this mad genius where they are just, they're so confident and comfortable with who they are that they're just going to drag you into the deep end and see if you can, if you can stay afloat. And most teams can't. And they're playing with fire a little bit because they take so many penalties. like they just they initiate post whistle scrums every single time and they're just like they're daring officials to be like what are you going to do about it are you going to you're going to actually penalize us here and last post season they did they got away with it certainly during that cup run like

they weren't penalized nearly as often as they were in the regular season they benefit from that but even when they do go short-handed they just throw barcob and reinhardt out there and it's like those guys are probably pretty likely to create a two-on-one so even then you're not safe even when you're on the power play against them. So this team is just absolutely phenomenal, and I love watching them play. And so, yeah, the Panthers, the Panthers had a good week.

So I wanted to acknowledge that. You did take my tweet on that. You did. You read my tweet word for word on that. No one's going to remember that. People are going to remember the smart thought that I just put out there and talked about. No one's going to remember a tweet

that you're referencing there. I do want, can I say one thing, one more thing on Florida real quick? Just because we talk all the time about teams knowing their identity. And you brought up the penalties and everything like that. The Panthers are the perfect example of one of the things they know about themselves and they know about how hockey is played is they know the reps aren't going to call everything.

You watch them play and you see all the little things that they pull other teams into where all of a sudden they're just like the guy staying with his reps like, oh, what did we do? And all of a sudden both teams go and the ref takes both guys sometimes. And all of a sudden, oh, we'll gladly go four on four with Barkoff and Reinhart. Like, it is, we've talked a lot about team identity and stuff like this. And I don't think anyone other than Florida is one of the teams better than anyone at realizing that we can push those buttons and we got away with it in the playoffs last year. And we're going to continue to get away with the playoffs. And why not just do it in the regular season?

Yeah, they're just not going to allow you to play like a single comfortable sequence of shifts. Like if you have one where you're like feeling good about your game, the next one is going to suck. And so that's a nightmare to play against seven times in a row. Even like a Ryan Lombard, like just you watch him sometimes. His name's the Lombergeny. Okay, let's get it right. You watch him sometimes and he's just like on the bench, like just smiling at the opposition. Like there's something going on his head where he's like, this is hilarious to me and I'm going to piss this guy off.

And obviously Nick Cousins is famously a past. Same with Bennett and Chuck and pretty much all their forwards are annoying. Okay. let's end with this. It's the stuff that didn't happen slash is still on the board for the summer. And in particular, with goaltending. And the reason why I bring that up is it was talked about a lot, especially in the, like from last night on, but for a while now where the devils were highly linked to Marks from in particular, right? And then that trade fell through. Elliot Friedman's talked a lot about how that won't dissuade them from essentially

circling back to it this summer. We didn't really see any goalies get moved today other than V-Tec Van Achev for Capo Cacodin, and then Jake Allen to the devil. So the devils were pretty much the only team that made goalie moves. And I think that was smart on their part because I don't think it was really that much about the rest of this year. They have 19 games left. They have like about a 10% playoff probability. I think they wanted to do a little something just so they're not really leaving Nico Dawes in particular out to dry because he was clearly playing way too many games towards the end of Lindnerf's tenure.

And so I think they just want to like bring in some guys. but they actually got off of Vantichick's money next year. They have Allen at 50% as a backup next year at under $2 million. And so that kind of brings us back to this idea of what they're going to do. Now there's Markstrom. There's also Linus Allmark who we found out, I think we found out with some level of certainty that the Bruins tried to trade him to the Kings. And essentially he flexed his no move and prevented them from doing so.

So they're going to, the worst hidden kept secret in the league is that Jeremy Swayman essentially already has a contract extension that's going to kick in. And that's going to be a big pay raise. And so they're going to have to weaponize Allmark in the final year of his deal to improve their roster this summer. So I think we'll see something in that regard. And then obviously we'll come back to Soros in the final year of his deal, John Gibson for the 47th straight season. There's going to be goalie options and big names available. But I'm very curious to see how this plays out in particular. particularly in relation to the devils because despite these moves, regardless of what happens

the final 20 games, they're clearly going to be back in the market next summer. And I think they're going to go big name shopping at that position. Well, didn't they even admit it? Like, I wasn't in Fitzgerald's availability today. He said, like, these moves put us in the split. I don't even think he was coy about it. He was like, yeah, I got these two guys. But no one, like, for sure.

And I need to get someone better. Like, he was pretty much said that today in his availability. He was like, listen, Jake Allen doesn't have his visa. It's Friday. I'm not sure if he's going to be here. So I'm not relying on him by any means. So let's not get that twisted. No, but they're not even like, I don't think the level like there's like a level of like illusion even there to like, well, let's see it.

These guys play well. This could be the future. Like I don't think this is like really an audition as much as let's let's just protect our young goalies here. So they don't definitely fail. And then we'll revisit this. in a couple months. Well, and you laid it out, Dmiti, like, if there's Saros,

Markstrom, Allmark, and Gibson still out there and still at least somewhat available, you know, it's obviously varying degrees of, you know, say sorrows are the predators actually going to keep them after all and resign them? Who knows? But if there's three out of those four available, like the devils have the draft capital

and prospects to pull off a pretty big trade, and the offseason might give them more flexibility and hey, maybe Jake Allen is their backup next year. Maybe he's part of this hypothetical trade for whatever, John Gibson or whoever, because that other team is going to need a goalie to be their starter. So I think it's setting themselves up pretty well. I just wonder if did they wait too long to do something this year

and kind of let the season get away from them? It's hard to say because you know, you need two to its angle. you need the other team to be reasonable in a trade discussion, and maybe that just never happened. And they weren't able to really pull the trigger on getting a starter in New Jersey. But it's a shame, and I understand injuries played a part in this, but it's a shame that New Jersey is in this spot, given all the preseason hype for what they are capable of as a group.

My dream for New Jersey is for them to go get Asker off. As much as our Predators fans are not going to, like that. I love the, hey, I love Ascarov, Demetri, and I probably send DM back and forth, thinks about them all the time. But I would love the dynamic. If you could, they could get Ascarov. And all of a sudden, we get five to six years of Islanders, Devils, Rangers between Sorokin, Shasturkin, and Ascarov. Like, I would love that. That would, to me, that's the storyline I want. I want the Devils to find a way to Nashville. Nashville makes the decision they're going to resign Sarco. So Ascarov.

actually becomes available, even though I heard that back at the draft, they considered moving Ascarov at that point. So that's my dream is I want to see Ascarov in New Jersey. Imagine being a resident in the New York area and reading a newspaper, and those three are the goalies there. No. Here's the thing. I think the flames, I'd be very curious to know how this all played out. And they sort of eventually said, listen, we don't want to move Markstrom because we want to reward this group for being as competitive as they've been. in, they keep winning games even after all these trades they've made. I think they probably, if they could have come to the right figure, particularly from a

financial perspective, they would have done so. But I think they might have misplayed this a little bit. And maybe that won't be the case because he might get a Vesna nomination at the end of this season, right? And then all of a sudden, you're going to the off season where it's much easier to make moves to this magnitude and they'll hat drum up a market and they'll still be able to get something good for them. But for the devils particularly, and even though it's,

sounds right now that they are just very like fixated on Markstrom, I think they're going to get to a point in the off season where they look around and they're like, this guy's 35, he's making $6 million for the next two seasons. And he's living proof of the fact that just because he was good this past season does not mean he's going to be good next year. Why would we prioritize him above all of these other names who are younger, potentially cheaper that are also available, right? And so whether it is Staros or whether it's O-Marc, who's very fascinating for a variety of other reasons, there's going to be options there. And so it's not necessarily as simple as like, just because they're interested in Marksum now, they will be, again, regardless of what they say now because I think like a level of more pragmatic thinking is going to come through. Because part of Markstrom's value right now would have been salvaging this season because he's playing at such a high level.

And once you get to the off season, that becomes much less of a perk for if you're a devil's fan or a devil's management member. It's the kind of like the long-term curse, right, in New Jersey of like the goaltending, right? They had one goalie for 25 years or whatever it was. And now all of a sudden it's the everything feels like they have to go after the instant solution. That's what they've kept tried and tried and tried again to go after the instant solution when, I'm going to get back to that. I should trade for Ask Ruff, but you should go back. It's the space where that's been like, and I say that as someone who originally grew up in New Jersey first. Like you grew up with like, oh, well, there's one.

goalie and I feel like the devil's even though it's a different management group, different ownership, there's always been that quest to find that one goalie. They have, there's this in that end, they get fixated on fixing that run problem when the guy they, at some point someone else can become that guy. You got to go young. Like, someone of you finished this thought for me. Well, I find a long two hours. I keep bringing, I kept bringing this back to Hallmark, but I find it so interesting because

like it was sort of hinted out, I guess, or I think Bernie several might have even said that like it was the Kings and he essentially they were on his list of places you'd want to go. And then I think the Bruins cited geographical reasons is why he didn't want to go. And then I did want to shout out, uh, since I'm referencing tweets I like today, there was some there's one I saw that was like by geographical proximity, he means more than five feet away from Jeremy Swayman. And so I thought that was really funny, uh, because we obviously know their relationship. But it's interesting from the Bruins perspective, right?

Because it's been such a weapon for them for the past two years, having these. these two guys, but also they're going to get to a point this summer where they actually have some money coming off the books. So they're going to be able to get back into the market of shopping for impact players as opposed to settling for here's a minor Andrew Peak trade. And we're going to add Pat Maroon. There's going to be more options for them. And so they're going to be jumping back into that market as well. And so, yeah, I thought this was a good way to end it because it kind of spins it forward and gets us thinking about what we should be excited about the next time all of this stuff is up for consideration.

any parting notes from you guys or thoughts on either this or whatever else from this entire process because this is a good chance for us to sort of marinate on on everything that's unfolded over the past 24 hours but also the past week speaking of things that didn't happen Bill Kessel did not sign a contract which is highly unfortunate so he's not going to play this season likely won't play next season I mean I can't see that happening I suppose it could so hey we may have seen the last of Phil Kessel, the NHL player, which is unfortunate, and I believe

his his consecutive game streak is still alive or was alive, and maybe it ended this this season at some point, because he hasn't been signed, but a legend leaves us. Oh, that's sad. I was kind of hoping the parting shot

would be a more uplifting one. Don't let's not end on that note, Sean, you've got to bring us home with something. Let's let's, let's come up for New Jersey to trade for a goalie. Let's like, one of these non-plifties, He's got to go sign. Like, he's just, he's just ineligible for the playoffs, John.

It's only the playoffs he's ineligible. So a team could still sign him. True. And he could, like, you know, go sign him to like an ELC, tell him you can extend his streak, do it to sell some tickets. Let's get Phil Kessel back in the NHL for like a 10 game,

like farewell tour with, I don't know, like, like, let's, Columbus, right? Let's, let's have Columbus sign him and then play him for like 10,

10 games or something like that. Like, that's, that's, let's, let's end it positively. I mean, I think he's going to need more than 10 games to accomplish this.

But guys, he's eight points short of a thousand for his career. Like we, it's an absolute travesty for this to be the last of, of Phil, all caps. I really want to see him back out there. Sean,

what about the, I mentioned Pat Maroon there. Yeah. What about Pat Baroon being back on the Bruins, but being reunited with, you want to end with the story? Yeah, of course. Jack Edwards.

Yeah. If anyone is still listening to the show by now, I think they deserve to hear your behind the scenes. I know they've buried the hatchet, but it was obviously we all remember the comments about from Jack Edwards about Paparoon. And it was the first game, the Bruins played in Tampa after that, those comments. I was actually down in Tampa doing a store. It was down there doing some things for EP ringside and everything like that. And it was the, we're in the locker room after the morning escape, and Pat Maroon is sitting in his stall,

and then Jack Edwards walks into the room. And I was actually talking to Victor Hadman at the time. And Victor Hadman, like, shushed me. He's like, wait, we have to watch this. And basically, everyone in the entire room, media players, just walk as, watch as Jack Edwards, walk across the room to Pat Maroon. They have a conversation. I won't say what they said,

because I will at least respect that, even though they did it in the public sector of the locker room. But I will always remember Victor Hedman being like, wait, we have to watch. I'm picturing him just pressing his finger up against your lips. Sean. Well, the funny thing, the funny thing is that Edmund's like the nicest guy, too,

like a gentle giant. So I can just see him being like politely like one second. And then everyone's attention. There's a, I don't know, is it your photo? There's like a grainy photo of them talking where Jack is at eye level. And Pat Maroon is like untying his skates. And it's just like it captures the moment so well where he's really trying to apologize. And Pat Maroon's kind of like, I don't really feel like talking to you.

So I'm just going to keep untying my skates. I did not take that photo. I saw there was someone around me took that photo. I didn't want to be the, I've still wanted to put your headman to keep talking to me after I. Sean, you've already taken credit for tweets here today. I think you can continue that and take credit for this one as well. fellas, thank you for indulging me here today.

This was a blast. I wouldn't have wanted to do this show with anyone other than you guys. You're two of the most regular PDO cast guests I have on and so it was fun to get together for this circumstance and break all this down.

Hopefully the listeners enjoyed it. I know I did. Everyone go follow Sean Shapiro, follow John Mattis, all the great work they do, not writing in newspapers, but still writing online. And so we will have both of them back on here again soon.

Thank you, everyone for listening. We're to take the weekend off. So go back and listen to all the PDO guest content over this past week. If you want more, we'll be back on Monday with plenty more. And I know that we didn't get to everything that happened to the trade line today. So we'll circle back and cover all that stuff as well. So looking forward to that. In the meantime, I want to enjoy an adult beverage.

And thank you to everyone for listening to the HockeyPedio cast on the SportsNid Radio Network.