The Hockey PDOcast - The Dallas Stars deep dive featuring Matthew DeFranks

Episode Date: October 19, 2022

Dimitri welcomes in Matthew DeFranks of The Dallas Morning News as they take a deep dive into the Dallas Stars.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey P.D.O.cast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey P.D.O. cast. My name is Dimitri Filippovich. And joining me on today's show is going to be our pal, Matthew DeFranx. Matthew, what's going on, man? What's going on. How are you doing? I'm doing well, man. On today's show, we're going to talk about the team that currently leads the league in goal differential, having outscored their opponents by a rather dominant 13 to 3 margin

in their first three games. It's the New Look Dallas Stars, who, that's right, by that stat, have scored 13 goals in three games. So I feel like, you know, the first natural question here is how do you feel about this new look team you're covering and how different it looks compared to the past incarnations? Yeah, I got to be honest. I was thinking the first question was going to be something we couldn't say on the radio what the bleat about this team.

But, yeah, it looks much different. I was thinking last year they didn't get their third regulation win until game 16, I believe. They went the first I believe it was 12 games without a regulation win and they have three in their first three games. They're somehow scoring.

I didn't know that was a thing that the Dallas Stars could do since that fifth year, covering the team and they haven't had a single season in the top half of scoring and they're doing it. I mean, they're really exciting to watch right now. They're fun to watch it. watch. They move the puck quickly.

They're moving, they play fast, and they generate a lot of chances off the rush, which is something that we hadn't seen a ton of the last few years under Rick bonus. It's just been kind of a breath of fresh air, to be honest. I don't know how long it's going to last.

We'll see what this team looks like when it actually is kind of a better indication of the season. So yeah, it's been a fun ride so far for stars fans for sure yeah i'm well one of my big questions heading into the year was just how much different this team would look after the summer they had right i think it's always tough for us as analysts to to truly know how much of any team's success or shortcomings come down to

coaching versus personnel it's like that fine balance between the two and and and the reason why i thought the stars were going to serve as such a good test case for it this season was because the personnel largely stayed the same you know they made a few changes they obviously acquired uh niels lunkwis right before the season. They brought in Colin Miller. They made a few changes in the margin. For the most part, the core was going to stay relatively the same, while the coach and the system that Pete DeBur coming in figured to employ,

based on his past track record, figured to be dramatically different. Now, it's only three games, and we should say that caveat, right? You don't want to, like you alluded to, you don't want to get two carried away with any whole proclamations. We'll see once they get more games under their belt and start playing some better teams. But it really seems like every single, every, like, signal so far, or every sign seems to be pointing emphatically to the idea that the coaching was really holding this group back because just watching these guys play, it honestly looks utterly

unrecognizable to me compared to a group we watched sort of painfully slog their way through last season. And you feel like that's the case just from watching it. It almost seems like it's just an entirely different group of players, but then you look at the names and for the most part, it's pretty much the same guys. Yeah, I mean, I was probably like you and that I looked at this. roster and I said, well, it's about the same. And, you know, Cogee might make a difference, but doesn't make a difference that

pushes a team from the seventh spot to the three spot or something, you know? Like, I don't know if it would do that. And I looked at the roster and was like, well, they look like a bubble team in the West, again, as it has been tradition for the last few years. And, yeah, you're right. They essentially traded out John Plingberg and the job Colin Miller and Neil's one twist in the back end. and up front they got the ghost of Alexander Radjelow is no longer there

and Mason Marchman is up there in the top six. So those are the only really notable changes, but yeah, they didn't change that top line. Merri Haysman is still the number one guy, Ben and Sagan, are still around. So it's a lot of the same bases. And, yeah, I kind of had low expectations for this team. And they are, well, they can probably finish fourth or fifth in the central. They'll play someone on the road again in the first round, and we'll see what happens at that point. But based on a lot of unknowns, I wasn't sure what this team would be.

And, you know, we still don't know if this is going to be what this team is, as we talked just briefly, but these first three games have allowed me to see what the potential could be. I didn't know that this was the potential of this team to, you know, to score maybe four goals and have Jake Onger be once again really good in that. So it's a window into possibilities, maybe not realities right now. Yeah, I don't think we need to keep throwing out the caveat there that it has been three games. I think everyone listening probably understands it's a small sample size where a week pretty much into the season. Like it is what it is, but it's all we have to go off, especially like it, you know, Pete DeBarre coming in. it really does feel like a clean slate.

So if anything, it feels even more applicable here to be buying into these three games we've seen so far just because it's kind of all we've got with this group, right? Like when you have a team that's sort of exceeding expectations early in the season, but it's the same players, it's the same coach, it's the same everything else, it's like, okay, what really fundamentally change here? For this case, at least you're right, it is kind of maybe more potential or what could be than necessarily the full reality right now. But at least the door is open that, okay, this is all we have to go off.

of with Peterborough coaching the Stars group and if this carries on now for the next handful of games we're going to have to with each kind of increasing sample size have to put more and more stock into it. Yeah, I think that's definitely fair. I mean, I think I would buy more of the Stars start than

Philadelphia is at this moment, right? Yeah. Well, I think it was you actually, right? You had the quote after I believe their second game, it was from Rupert Hintz where it was kind of, you know, the question was like, what does it feel like playing for this team now where, you know, it seems like you're playing differently at the blue line, you're kind of allowed to make plays.

You're not necessarily dumb in the pocket. And he basically, you're never from an NHLer, I feel like going to hear them say anything like too spicy necessarily about someone, especially someone as well respected as Rick Bonas is in in in in the actual circles. But it feels like hints in that answer gave you basically about as much of an insight as you're ever going to get in the sense that I think there was frustration from especially the skilled guys on this team that there were kind of being limited or restrained. with what the system was kind of allowing them to do or asking them to do or what they kind of felt

like they were incentivized to do last year. And now that the reins have been taken off and they're sort of just being allowed to play freely, especially for a player like Hintz, it must be such a breath of fresh air to basically be encouraged to do something every time you enter the zone. Yeah, I think there are two things with Hintz's response there. One, I mean, he was very blunt about kind of what they were asked to do last year and what they were asked to do this year. You know, that is very nice and refreshing to see from players. And, you know, I'm sure some of it is just kind of being blunt because he's finished. But the other part of it is there are true feelings there.

Like there are feelings among other players of the team that say, hey, like they may not say it quite like Lepa Hintz does in terms of, hey, yeah, we aren't dumping the puck almost every time now. We can carry it in and make plays. but, you know, for instance, Mero Hasten, and he doesn't really say much at all. He lets his play to the talking. Yeah, but he's like, yeah, we're playing with the puckmore, you know,

and Joe Pervelsky is saying, yeah, we're, you know, we're being encouraged to make plays. And he didn't use the dump word, right? They're really polarizing dump word that a lot of stars fans have come to hate over the years. But they're basically all saying the same thing, right? They're saying, hey, yeah, we can do different things. things with this coach than we did in the last few years.

So there is, I think, probably a sense of relief from those guys. You know, throwing Tyler Stadium with that as well, that, hey, we don't have to think about, you know, defending first. And I think, honestly, you've seen that in the way that they protected the league as well. Like last year, they were one of the worst teams in league at playing with the league, both in terms of goals allowed, goal differential, and in terms of underlying analytics, right? So I think that's been kind of a philosophy shift as well when you see them still attacking and still scoring goals and still extending their lead when they're already ahead.

I think it is just an overall shift in tone and philosophy that these guys have benefited from, yeah, especially like you said, those skill guys. That's a really great point by you there. I want to put a pin-net because I want to circle back to that. later and expand on it more in terms of that sort of philosophy of playing with the lead and kind of what insight it gives us into this team's outlook. But, you know, by the eye, it certainly seems like the stars have been playing more freely at the blue line in terms of not dumping the puck in as much. So I went back and counted it up for the three-game sample that we have

to go off of. And they've entered the offensive zone at 5-1-5, 125, 122 times so far. 61% of the time they're entering with possession off of either a carry or a pass in that leads to a play. They've only dumped it in 25% of the time. I don't have the numbers from last year. I feel like that's definitely an improvement, though, that, you know, in the past, in the last two games in particular, the number of times they've either, you know, failed to get it in or turned it over at the blue line has almost matched the number of times they've willingly dumped it in. And I know that's going to, you know, drive coaches crazy sometimes and fans, especially the leads to an odd man rush against going the other way. but I actually take that as a pretty good sign because that kind of reflects that change in strategy we're talking about where yeah sometimes you're going to turn it over if you're trying to make a play that's going to be a natural byproduct but for me that's much preferable to doing hockey's version of like punting it down the field which is basically even when you have space just dumping it down and then having to go battle and use all your energy again just to kind of grind up against the boards like the fact that they're turning it over at least to me signals that you have guys actually creative kind of creatively and freely

trying to do stuff, and I think that's a great sign for the stars. Yeah, and I think, so I have two plays that stick out in my head from, you know, Saturday's game against Nashville, which should be pretty fresh in your mind, even that you just watch them, right? Again, so there was one play, I think it was my basin marchman, and neutral zones kind of plodged up, and he makes the decision to pull back out and kind of turn around, end up in a turnover, odd man rushed the other way, and when they, that happened, I was, you know, thinking in my head, well, this is a play that that didn't

happen last year, right? It's something that the bonus would have lost his mind over and kind of like the whole, this whole defensive philosophy was based on limiting odd man rushes. And even the way they played in the offensive zone, having, you know, their third forward so high and protecting that odd man rushes the other way, kind of prevented, you know, from playing offense. They're playing defense while they're in the offensive zone. So that's one,

I was one play and the other play that I kind of thought of was, I believe it was Neil's Lundquist, who did the same thing, turned back with possession as a neutral zone was a little bit crowded and I think the stars got to change and it ended up, I believe,

in a possession where Miro Hasten scored on a give-and-go with Jason Robertson. And so those are kind of the extreme of that philosophy of kind of keeping the puck, possessing the puck, don't give it up just to give it up and prevent, you know, chances the other way. And that was something that, you know, we talked to Rickville and at various points last year. It was, hey, if there's a chance to keep possession and turn back,

do you want your guys to do that or do you want them to put it in deep and go forecheck? And his response was, well, if you turn back, that gives them a chance to set up their neutral zone forecheck. And that makes it harder for us to gain the line with speed and with possession. So that kind of whole philosophy was also derived off the fact that the stars were such a good team at forcing teams to dump pucks in last year. And they looked at the stats and said, well, hey, if every team is like us and is really good at forcing dump in based on the way that they pressure the neutral zone, well, we're just not going to be able to get through that. and this year is definitely philosophy changed. You can see some of the plays where guys turned back the possession and then enter into a possession after a few moments later.

Well, I was going to say the play sticks out of my mind is even think about the Kiberanto goal in the most recent game against the Jets. Obviously, that came off of multiple efforts for him, and I'm sure it was very rewarding to finally get one and go in. But that play starts with Radic Faxov all people, kind of seeing the play through where he avoids a check and actually skates the puck into the zone, and then once the Jets do get it and try to clear,

Niels Lundquist steps up at the blue line and keeps it in, right? And that's kind of what allows that play to really develop. And that type of aggression, both in terms of facts of bringing it in, and then Lundquist stepping up and not necessarily just sagging back to kind of contain the neutral zone is the exact type of kind of controlled aggression that leads to offense. And especially for some of these depth players on the stars, right? Like you know what you're going to get from that first line,

but for them to see other players start to play this way as well, is such a revelation for me. Like I was sending you a clip of one of the set plays they kind of ran in the neutral zone to help incorporate a breakout. And it not only makes life easier for their defensemen, which is something that I felt like they really needed to do in the past to relieve pressure off of them off the forecheck. But it also helps speed up their forwards by creating these lanes through the middle of the ice for them to suddenly kind of skate into like a runway.

Like we've seen Ruperi Hints do that to great success in the past. But now all of a sudden you're seeing Tyler Sagan, look, you know, he's healthier, but he looks like he's skating much faster than he has in the past as well, because all of a sudden he's got this space in the middle of the ice to kind of skate into and get rush shots off. We've seen Faxa Dua, we've seen Gourianov, we've seen Wyanne, we've seen Mason Marchman, like pretty much go on down the line, and it's not not just the top line anymore. It's everyone on the stars is getting a play this way, and you've got Niels Lundquist and Colin Miller kind of detaching to join up to play up the ice,

and it really feels like a much more cumulative effort, which to me speaks to the coaching. and also speaks to, after just three games, a much more kind of sustainable offensive success for this group if everyone keeps playing that way. Right, yeah, because the philosophy change wasn't aimed at the top line. Yes, yeah, they were doing good.

Yeah, they were going to get what they were going to get regardless of what kind of the coaching was. Maybe they'll be a little more, right? But the fact was that they were a one-line team, and it was about kind of deepening the roster and making sure the other lines to store. And if you could do that with coaching, and I feel like the margin to grow was a lot pitter on those,

that bottom, bottom nine than it was that top line. So that's kind of what Pete DeVore actually mentioned after the game the other night. It was actually a pretty funny quote because he's talking and he says, yeah, you know, I think this team, when I looked at it had the talent to be a deeper team. And I saw that. And, you know, last year people called them a one-line team, which was probably warranted. It was just funny to hear

Yeah, all these people said this thing about this team and They were right and so he kind of knew What his job was here and You know, if he could do that with the kind of the depth players That'll be that'll be interesting to see But yeah, that Radit tracks the entry

sliding down the board It was reminiscent of the time he slid down the bench A few years ago Like a skateboard grind Yeah. I mean, like, you know, I'm with the board. Like, how could that not be your takeaway from watching this team last year? Like, over 40% of their 5-1-5 goals were scored by Hins Robertson-Povilski. Over 45% of their total goals were scored by that trio. And it's great that those three had such great chemistry and success and were able to create that way. But it also kind of helped shine a light on the fact that, all right, this team is very dependent on these three guys to make all of the plays for them. And for me, they, issue was it really felt like they were almost operating on a different plane than everyone else. Like you'd watch and and they'd be playing one sport, which was a successful brand of hockey. And then it basically felt like everyone else was coming on to die ice and just basically

trying to make sure nothing happened for extended periods of time until they could do it again. Like I joke that their offensive game plan last year was just like nothingness and then Rupway Hins would go burr and then it would be more nothingness, right? And it really did feel like that because all of a sudden out of nowhere, you'd see him flying up middle of the ice and you'd be like wow where was that the past five minutes and then you realize no one else in this team was kind of either capable of doing so physically or actually being allowed to do so and so if we're going to see these other lines start to play that way not that they're going to be able to replicate what hints does himself because he's such a freak talent but it does seem like

all right this is you know we're on to something here all of a sudden when everyone else can be able to play freely and i feel like that that that must kind of bleed into that that confidence element right or the human element of, all right, we've seen this succeed. Now I'll just keep doing this. So I really hope they continue this way. And we don't wind up looking back at like, oh, those are a fun three games that never wound up continuing. Yeah, and I think with that line in particular, like, the way that Rick, the one has always talked to the last few years was, hey, if there is space, take it, if there's not, dump it, right? And, you know, it's too big of a sample size to look at individual,

kind of blue-line decisions and say, oh, there's space here to take it or not. But that top line, the way that they think and pass and the way the rope ahead states, like they created their own space in the neutral zone to carry in, right? So like you were saying, they're kind of almost playing a different sport because they had different skills that fit that way, right? And now I think the way that Pete DeBore has talked about things was, he talked about dumping and forechecking the other day before a game. And it was, yeah, we're still going to have to dump every now and then, but it's not as simple as getting to the blue line and dumping or not.

It's creating space towing out of your own zone so you have enough room to make plays and carry in with possession. And I think that's probably more of the key than anything, that those other three lines that don't naturally have. those skills of, you know, smarts and passing and speed, like all three of those guys, Roberts and Hempel's Q. Brin, they're suddenly getting that space because of what, you know, Pete DeVore is doing in his own zone in terms of breakouts and creating support and areas and lanes and all that stuff to really enter the zone with possession. Well, I've got to say one thing that I've really been surprised by, you know, I think once we think of the initial impressions of what Mason-Marchman's brought to the table to this team,

you can obviously think of that first goal. He scored to start the season, which was like an individual solo effort where he just goes downhill and you see the size and speed and the skill on top of that and what he's capable of doing in transition. And that's great.

I think like a much less glamorous part of what he's brought to the table that I think has unlocked so much for everyone else has been his ability to be kind of used in that neutral zone area as like a big target for people to hit basically and he's really helped open up pressure for others around him.

He mentioned that player earlier from the second game or whatever. Like he's done that. so many times so far this season where he's able to basically receive the puck and shield it and make a play in tight to all of a sudden kind of open up the area for whether it be Delandria or whether it be Sagan or whether it be one of their defensemen kind of skating into it. And so that's not as glamorous as the sweet goal he scored or however many points he's going to put up. But if he's able to kind of keep bringing that to the table for them, then all of a sudden

it really does unlock that that second scoring line for them and really increases the, the ceiling for this team offensively, I think. Yeah, and it's kind of a different way to think about guys like him creating space, right? Because usually you hear, oh, well, we want these big guys to create space for their line mates, and most of the time it's by digging in the corners and winning tucks down there and finance he made it open ice, right?

But with a guy like him, he can do multiple things to create space. And, you know, that's something that we actually talk to Pete today about was why has Marchman and Sagan kind of works that way? And he's like, well, we looked at Sagan's past, and we saw what he did with Jamie Ben and said, hey, well, we just played a similar game to younger Jamie Ben. So let's give it a shot. And, you know, it's interesting to hear that because, you know,

in the past, you know, bonus would try to squeeze Ben and Sagan together, even though it wasn't working. I mean, last year that Ben Sagan Radzlov line was one of the worst in the lead when they were on the ice when just a few years prior, they're one of the best in the lead. So instead of trying to force Ben and Sagan, they said, well, let's find a younger Ben and put him with Sagan. And that's kind of what Marchman is serving as so far right now on that line. And it's interesting to see because, you know, I didn't cover the stars for Prime Jamie Ben and young Ben to see what him and. stadium or like in their heyday. But it's interesting to see a younger version, maybe a less heavy version in Mason

Marshman. Yeah, you're right. Usually you think of kind of being along the boards or in front of the net, and, you know, he's certainly going to provide that element as well. And we saw him kind of score that power play tap in in the opener in front of the net. But, yeah, just using him in space and kind of using him as this, like, versatile chess piece to help others out is a huge revelation for me. Is there anything else on, before we go to break here, anything else on kind of this neutral zone system they've incorporated or sort of what they're doing tactically in terms of creating space for others in transition that you think we should hit on?

Not a ton. I think we hit on a lot of it. I mean, they've been focusing on breakouts for the last few weeks. I mean, that was the first thing they did during training camp day one. And you can see why it's so important to pizza board to break out smoothly and create space. and agile possession and to a possession and that's kind of been one of the big games so far.

Yeah, the number of the number of icings last year was watching this TV. It really felt like it was just stopping and starting every time and all of a sudden kind of incorporating this this freer element for them is huge. I really, you know, it's one thing, kind of one final point on this before we go to break,

like it's one thing to carry the puck into the zone. What I'm noticing with them is as soon as they do enter though, it's so much, like it's so much about making that next play, right? And a lot of it is that kind of cross seam pass as soon as you enter where the other team is all of a sudden having a sackback defensively. They're not able to get into a defensive structure. And you're able to hit someone.

And I feel like we've seen Miro Heiskenen, you know, jump in and be on the receiving end of that and being involved in the rush more times in these three games than any three game sample I can remember from his previous season. So it's really cool to see that. And I hope it continues. Matthew, let's take a quick break here. And then when we come back in a few minutes, we're going to keep talking about this new look stars team

and the start of the season. So you all are listening to the Hockey PEOCast on the SportsNet Radio Network. So we're back with more here on today's PEDEOCast, where we are joined by Matthew DeFranx talking about the start of the season for the Dallas Stars and sticking with the theme of sustainability and kind of trying to figure out how much to make of the way they're playing so far. You alluded to this earlier. I wanted to get

into it a bit more here. I'd argue the most encouraging part of all this is how much of it has come during game states where the stars have actually been playing ahead for most of the time. They've been playing with the lead so far for 137 of the 180 minutes they've played in their three games. And one of my biggest gripes with Rick Bonas and their seemingly preferred game plan last season was just the general lack of ambition there seemed to be with this group. It really felt like they were trying to do the absolute bare minimum they needed to just scrape by, right? Like if the sports still allowed for games to end in ties, I really think that last year's version of the Dallas Stars would have been playing for that on most nights. It really felt that way just watching them. And we know that the sport itself and NHL as a whole still kind of struggles with managing score effects and how they can impact your results.

We know that when teams are playing from ahead, they tend to kind of play more conservatively and try not to mess up so they don't create it much offensively themselves. And for the Dallas Stars last year, it really felt like that was true for more than anyone else, right? Like they were the definition of parking the bus. Like when they'd go up on the scoreboard, it really felt like. like they were just grind to an absolute halt almost immediately. No one scored fewer goals per minute than them when leading last year. And I think only the coyotes generated fewer shots. And so those are two really problematic areas.

And the fact that they've played so much of these games so far and have continued to play this aggressively for me, Matthew, is one of the biggest reasons for encouragement that they're going to get into situations when they're actually playing from behind now or playing in neutral game scripts. And it feels like they're going to be incentivized even further than to, to, to play aggressively and that could lead to even better things. Yeah, I think last year and the year before, in particular, I mean, they had so many overtime games that, like, as you said, they probably would have led the league in ties. Yes.

Right. I mean, in 2021, they missed the playoffs because they lost too many overtime and shootout games. And last year, they made the playoffs because they won those teams instead. Like, it wasn't a different team. Their goal differential was similar. The regulation record was similar. is just a matter of winning overtime games and not winning overtime games. And that was one of the issues with the style they played.

And I think there were a few issues that were exacerbated in when they were leading. They're trying to protect leads. And it was, you know, they already played a low event game, which kind of made the margin for error smaller, right? because, for instance, in basketball, if you use the entire shot clock, you shorten the game by having fewer possessions, you know, each three-point miss or make is going to mean more because there are fewer possessions. Same thing in football where you have, you maybe you can use the whole play clock, you run fewer plays, you have fewer drives, and, you know, a touchdown in the first quarter means more in that scenario. And so in hockey for that, and, you know, it's a lot of nothing to sense. happened with the stars who was dumping for checking and exiting off the plass and out and each team would go back and forth and so the low event style led to closer games and you know that

meant that their margin for error was almost nothing because they couldn't get a two-gole leader or something like that and even if they were leading you took an already conservative system and you made it even more conservative with the lower margin for error and in 2021's case less talent on the ice to win overtime and shoot out games. So it was kind of a trickle down of kind of what the issues were in terms of playing with the lead and it all started with how they play and how it shortens the game and, you know, how conservative they actually do get at the end. But yeah, I would agree that, you know, this year they've been.

really fun to watch because they've only they've only been trailing for like seven minutes of the entire series so far so that's been that's been encouraging for them yeah no it has I mean it last year was pretty much everything from them that I dislike about the sport tactically in terms of how the incentive

structure rewards that type of conservatism and they weren't certainly alone but it felt like they were on that extreme of really pushing the boundaries of like how slowly and how like methodically they could play when they were up basically just trying to bleed the clock it was like a team that you're right the NFL is a great analogy to that it's like when a when an underdog goes up and then all of a sudden they're just trying to run out the clock and just like they don't throw anymore they're just running plays and hoping to bleed the clock out that's the way they were playing last year and this year you're seeing like they're up four one and you're still getting they're going for these odd man rushes you're seeing defensemen in particular

jump into the play and try to get in on the fun. And that's really encouraging for me. That's what good teams do. And that's what teams that get it do in terms of, all right, we're up 4-1. But instead of trying to, you know, keep it at 4-1, like, we want to score again. We want to go up 5-1.

And so seeing that from them, that's really encouraging to me. Because they're not going to lead this percentage of their games the rest of the way, obviously. So there's going to be times where they're down or there's going to be times where it's neutral and they're tied. and then you imagine that the fact they're playing this way already would kind of get heightened even further when they actually have to try to score goals.

So I'm really watching for that, but I think the early indications of that are really good. And, you know, I would say when you have Jake Odinger back there is your goalie and how well he's playing, you'd think, if anything, that would really emboldened you to play this way. Like it's not like we're talking about a goalie where, and Kevin Woodley talks about this all the time. Whenever I have him in the show,

it's this kind of like psychological effect that a bad goalie can have on a team's choices and their decision making where if they don't trust their goalie to stop pucks whenever they they come their way maybe all of a sudden they're going to like be leaning a certain way or be um you know a step slow because they're really that's in the back of their mind thinking okay if i mess up here that's going to lead to a a goal against and a minus uh on my box score and all of a sudden that's going to be a problem for everyone and for the stars it's kind of the opposite it where Audinger is playing so well right now that it feels like if anything, you should feel very comfortable getting into these game situations where you're playing off the rush

and exchanging scoring chances because I guess unless you're playing Tampa Bay and Vasilevsky or unless you're playing the Rangers and Shusirkin, you have to feel good about your chances that you probably have as good, if not a better goalie behind you. So I imagine that must play into the logic as well. not like they had on your last year of course as well but it really feels like after that postseason series he had against calgary and then now the way he started so far this season that's kind of kind of make that you know take it even a step further yeah and just to touch on the kind of way they play while leading one one last time while i can talk again before even the

auditor uh last year i was curious whether you know you mentioned the the numbers when leading you know in terms of offense created were some of the worst in the lead. And in my head, I was like, well, they're pretty bad at five-on-five, too. So how much of a style change is it to go from, you know, one of the worst five-on-five offenses to one of the worst leading offenses? And looking at those game states across the league, I wanted to see, well, what's the difference between those teams? Because every team, you know, as score effects have shown, will kind of give up a little bit more when they're, leading, but I looked and the stars were, as everyone had anticipated, one of the worst

scenes in terms of relative to the other scores of the game, right? So that was just something that I looked at last year. I thought, well, they're usually not very good, you know, in ties and trailing, but they were so much, much worse when they did. Well, you know what? I think anecdotally kind of played into that, Matthew. I think that it really felt like, especially in these close games or games where they were like holding on for dear life with a one goal lead, it felt like bonus was leaning on that combination of Glenn Denning and Faxa so much more than he probably should have, right? Like you'd think that, okay, we're in this third period of a tight game.

We want to get our number one unit, our number one line. It's most likely to create chances and score out there as often as we can. And instead it felt like bonus was doubling down and being like, all right, well, these are two guys that I really trust defensively and to win draws and do all that. So I'm just going to get them out there whenever I can. And there'd be these situations where you'd look up in Radic Fax levels all of a sudden leading the team in Ice Time. And you're like, how did this happen? And it wasn't an accident.

It was clearly a preference and clearly by design by the coach. And so I think that's kind of where they got themselves into problems a little bit in terms of changing not only the way they were playing in the neutral zone, but also like their deployment itself. Yeah, I absolutely agree in not to go in an ice time tangent right now. but that's been one of the things that's been notable for me with Pete DeBoer is that he's essentially used all four lines the same. And I understand the score and situations will have an effect on that when you lead each game by two or three goals, or you're not going to be kind of pushing your top line out there to score a goal.

But, you know, as you mentioned, we're seeing, you know, fourth-line minutes for Radifaxa and kids. your answer and Lendeney now versus last year with Raffle, Fafta and Blandeni, it was kind of second line minutes by time on ice, right? Maybe not in terms of usage, in terms of deployment in the defensive zone or, you know, score effects and stuff like that. But they were still seeing a lot more minutes than I think we'll all anticipate this year for sure. Yeah.

Well, let's talk about Andre then, because I... Yeah. No, no, no. I mean, he deserves. I mean, we could do a full show on him at this point based on the way he's playing. So the predator, like, first off, the stars are getting him some run support finally, right? And I'm sure that must feel really good for him. But just looking at the stats so far.

So the Predators and Jets have attempted 191 shots against so far in terms of just pure raw attempts. Now, a lot of those have either been blocked or have made it run into the net. I'm not sure what the actual shot on goal tally is. But he's been beaten on just three of those. And two were by tips for both Predators' goals. that he gave up. And what the goal of the Jets scored was a great A1 timer from the circle by Mark Shreifley where, you know, I think it was a really nice kind of play, quick play by Connor. And I feel like he probably didn't even have a chance to get set. And for a lot of goalies, this is

true because it feels like NHL goalies are so good now that if they see the Pock, they're probably going to stop it. But I have such supreme confidence right now in Dodinger. It feels like, you know, I'm no, uh, no technical goalie guru here in terms of like describing his play or or anything, but it just feels like watching him, he's so efficient in terms of his movements and he's so in control in terms of squaring up the puck that if he has a realistic chance on it, and sometimes even when he doesn't, like, there's no chance of it going in on him. Yeah, and even that second Predator's tip goal was at the very end of a five on three. Right.

But he hasn't given up goals that he should be saving. And, you know, I'm not a goalie expert either. We'll leave that to Kevin Woodley but when I spoke to Jeff Reese before the season about Jake Ottinger he was talking about how they're just gradually kept

pushing him further and further back towards the net because he's reading the game so much better and that when he came into the league they wanted to err on the side of being aggressive so they pushed him out more to the kind of challenge guys and that made going

side to side and he was in laterally a little bit tougher because you have more spaces to travel, right? And now because he's reading the game, he knows where plays are going, he understands kind of the speed of the NHL. They've leaned more into kind of pushing him back more and having those side-to-side movements be quicker and easier than being able to get across the crease much quicker. So, you know, I don't know all the ins and outs

and kind of how that manifests and how many goals he said because of that and because you can replays better and because he can get from side to side quicker. But it's just a small thing that the stars have noticed in his game that they want to lean on a little more too. So I think it's kind of when we're in Dallas because Ottinger is kind of the, that was the last thing that we saw from the stars

was Jake Ottinger being good. And so the offense being good and having a second line and, you know, all the neutral zone and stuff we talked about before, that's all taken up a lot of the airspace in Dallas just because it's all then new. And Jake Odinger has been just really, really solid for them. And sometimes I forgot even how good he's been these first three games. I think last time I checked Monty Plex expected goal to what he was leading the league. week. I don't know what that looks like after last night's games, but nonetheless, he's been

really good for them. And, you know, he's one of those things that we talked up before. What does this team look like when they're not getting 966 and 1.0 each night? So, but he's been, he's been superb, and I wonder how many he starts they're going to lean on him for. Yeah, balling hockey has him at a 4.9 goals he above expected right now just behind Carter Hart, but they do have a different model than money puck. So it keeps me. to that in mind. But yeah, I mean, and for me, it always, you know, with star as goalies, whether it was Ben Bishop or Anton Houdobin and then even Dodinger last year, it was like, all right, well, we almost kind of, I feel like these defensive models we have right now and sort

of the raw data we have doesn't really account properly enough for the game environment they're in because they're doing such a good job of kind of suffocating the middle of the ice and making sure everything's coming from the outside, even in that game seven against the flames in which he was remarkable and not to take any away from it a significant portion of those shot attempts were coming from a flames team from the point being taken by erika branson and nikita zedorov and they were like very low percentage shots now whenever you stop however many raw shots on goal that he did last year regardless of where they're coming from it's highly impressive and especially in a game seven setting going to go overtime like that's the the

mental component of that and the pressure is going to add up and makes it even more impressive but so far this year, like they're getting into this, whenever you get into this kind of track me type of environment where you yourself go for it offensively, you're naturally going to give up more chances the other way. And they've been pretty good at limiting those so far and they're just playing fast at both ends. I'm sure when they play a team like, let's say the Colorado Avalanche, for example, that has a bit more bite to its game offensively and bit more firepower, there's going to be, you know, an added emphasis on Audinger and what he needs to do because if they, they, give up those chances that has been more likely to score on them or at least threaten with

them. But so far, so good. And it feels like it's all kind of, it's all meshing together. And I just, I just wanted to give out under your credit for his part of this equation, because when you're scoring four or five goals every single night, the way the stars have so far, you're right, it's easy to kind of forget about him. But he himself has, has really just been holding the team to one and done. Yeah. And it's, yeah, it's been really cool to how he's handled it all just like personally you know because he's still pretty young i want to say 23 maybe 24 23 feels right um and there's not that many guys uh that can do what he's doing at the level he's doing and kind of handling it all uh going back to the playoff series last year like he

guys. That was one of the things that I kind of learned about him last year was that he's always been kind of built for this. I mean, he started in the Minnesota State hockey tournament, which, you know, is a massive deal down there, or up there for me down there for you. That's right. up there in Minnesota. And he started there as a freshman when he's 13 years old or whatever. And he was the youngest player in college hockey when he was a freshman at BU because he finished his high school stuff early and he reclassified.

And then he was the starter in that outdoor game at the Will Junior's in Buffalo against Canada. And that was his first World Junior game. So he's been in these big atmospheres. He's hound them all. and it's kind of interesting to see you know the calm and really a normal personality

that he has. Yeah, I love it. All right, we need to do a quick update on Miro he's going to hear because last week I talked a lot about how the stars needed to let Miro cook more and more people are saying it. So far, so good.

He's playing 25 minutes per game, score the two goals, add another assist. He's played 50-43. at 5 on 5 so far and the stars are up 3-0 in that time. Defensively, I don't know what more there is to say. He makes everything look so effortless. He basically erases everything in his area code. There's been times where, you know,

Kyle Connor looked like he had a step on him and tried to cut inside and he just knocked it away effortlessly with his stick. Roman Yose tried to go after him once and he like corralled him perfectly up against the boards, took the puck away from him. They were going the other way. And his ability, you know, I think I made a bit of a mistake. because I put so much emphasis on how much offensively I want to see from them in terms of jumping into the rush and getting involved in that way and using his skating to move downhill.

And we have seen that. But I think we need to kind of discuss the fact that his ability to make those plays in terms of the puck retrievals, in terms of knocking it away and getting it back. And then all of a sudden sending it into space for someone else to skate into fuels this team's offense so much, right? So if you want to play this type of free-flowing transition game that they have so far and that we love seeing from them, you ultimately need Miro Haskinen to do what he's done. And so I think that shouldn't go overlooked in terms of that defensive component that's been there in past years, obviously, like, you know, this isn't anything new. But putting it all together, it really feels like he's playing at such a supremely high level right now.

Yeah, and this is one of the things that happens like every start of the same. season. When I start seeing all the stick checks and poke checks and just angling guys, it just seems to jump out more after you haven't watched hockey for three months. And for me in particular, at least, and that's something that, you know, as you said, he'd had in his game. And as far as offensively, I really want to look at the two goals that he scored because they're both goals that he would not score last year for different reasons.

Right. So one, the rush up the guys to give and go with Jason Robinson, that was on the left side of the ice. So that's a place where he hasn't been since before the pandemic. He has not played on his strong side since March of 2020. These last few partners, whether he's suitor last year or Alexiak the year before, both left-handed guys that force Hays came to play on the right side. And so that's one of those smaller things that you say,

and you say, well, probably doesn't make that play last year because he's on the opposite side of the ice and he's on his backhand instead of his forehand and just small things like that. And then the other one, the power play one-timer, that's a place he wasn't at last year, right? He wasn't on the top unit. He wasn't at the point.

He was on the half wall. And, you know, he might have still been able to, to rip off a few one-timers, but not the kind of return to the top and a one-timer from up there. So the two goals this year that he scored are one score he's been put in different positions to succeed and he has

because he's just such a good player that he just needs to have the kind of a set up for success to succeed. That's what I find this thing about his offensive potential is, you know, obviously we knew he would have more power play time without playing bird.

We understood that Pete DeVore's system has, you know, year over year, kind of added 20% to the team's point total from defensemen when he first takes over. And so we kind of understood that, you know, Mayor Haystam's numbers would be up, but it's just interesting to see it happening in person and in what scenarios that they do happen. And it's just pretty cool to see and take that next step. Yeah, yeah. Well, we know that, you know, Pete DeBur assistant, as you mentioned, he has had really, really good offensive defenseman throughout his career,

whether it was in San Jose or whether it was most recently in Vegas. And he has done a really good job of recognizing that and then funneling his offense through that or at least encouraging those players to be as involved as they can offensively. And so you're right, putting Hayeskin in those spots to be involved, whether it is playing on the left side, whether it is on the top unit power play, whether it is, you know, just jumping in on some of these rushes. Sometimes it's a bit of freelancing in terms of, all right, I'm going to take the puck up the ice and almost kind of pass it to myself and go and get it and then dish it off to a teammate,

and then I'll eventually resume my position at the point. But he's so good. He's such a free skater and so kind of smooth and effortless with his stride that he's able to cover that ground so quickly that I want him doing that as often as possible. So I'm glad they're letting Miro cook and I really hope it continues. Matthew, this is a blast. I'm glad we got to talk about all this stuff. I know it's just three games like we said,

but it's been immensely gratifying to see everything that we were all kind of lamenting and yelling about last year, finally get sorted out, just to see the immediate returns on it like this. So it's awesome stuff. Let the listeners know where they can check out your work and plug some stuff. Yeah, so on Twitter, this ad M. DeFranch. and then read myself at DallasNews.com. I love it.

Even though you sometimes step on my corner by posting random clips from Stars games that otherwise wouldn't make highlight reels, but I feel like they're cool. I'll run it by in a sense. I love it. No, keep doing your thing, man. You're an awesome follow,

and I'm glad you're covering this team and you're doing such a good job at it. So thanks for coming on the show finally. Thank you, everyone, for listening. If you enjoy the show, please show us some love and smash that five-star button wherever you typically listen to your podcasts. And we're going to be back tomorrow with more of the Hockey PDO cast here on the Sportsnet Radio Network.