The Hockey PDOcast - The Golden Knights deep dive with Jesse Granger

Episode Date: November 2, 2022

Dimitri welcomes Jesse Granger of The Athletic Las Vegas to conduct a Vegas Golden Knights deep dive following the hot start to their season.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the HockeyPEDEOCast. My name is Dimitra Velpovich, and joining me is my good buddy, Jesse Granger. Jesse, what's going on, man? Not much. How are you? I'm good. I'm excited to have you on, finally. We've been planning this one for a while.

We are going to deep dive the Vegas Golden Knights, who you cover on a daily basis so well for the athletic. And, like, listen, we're going to dig into the start. start of the season for them, they're red hot right now. They're currently sitting perched atop the Western Conference with not only a 9-and-2 record, but a league best plus 16 goal differential in those 11 games. I guess the natural starting point here is to talk about Bruce Cassidy, the changes they've made from last season at this season in terms of the way they're playing, the way they're utilizing their players, kind of stuff you've noticed. Also,

the conversations you've had with him. I'm kind of curious for your sort of first impressions of what he's brought in from not only a system's perspective, but kind of just like the way they're operating in these first whatever three weeks of the season yeah it's been it's been really awesome dealing with bruce cassidy um i didn't know him a ton uh before he came to vegas but i i mean i'd seen him in press conferences i knew he was a very uh sharp guy you can just tell by the way he talks about hockey not not not that other coaches aren't as sharp but maybe they don't like to show it as much as bruce cassidy does he really does not mind going into the minutia and the details and he will answer just about anything you ask him.

It's been really fun for me. I think I learn a lot talking to him. I think I learn a lot about hockey. I think it's also easier to analyze what's happening on the ice when you know exactly what the coach is looking for from every player, from every line, from the system, all that. In terms of just how he's operated, I think one of the big things that he's brought in is accountability.

And not that Pete DeBore didn't have accountability with the team, team, but I think Cassidy brings it to another level. I was talking to Bill Foley, Golden Knights owner a couple weeks ago, and that's all he would talk about with Bruce Cassidy was the accountability he brings to this team. And Bill Foley's a former military guy. He went to West Point growing up, and actually that's the reason the Golden Knights are the Golden Knights is because you wanted to name him the Black Knights after West Point, but they wouldn't let him. So he picked their other color gold. But anyways, he is a big fan of the accountability that Bruce Cassidy brings. I wouldn't say he's like a dictator coach, but he's definitely more towards that than the two coaches the Golden Knights had had prior.

Gerard Glant was obviously, he's a player's a player's basically another player that just happens to be coaching the team, and the players love him. I've heard him describe as a vibes guy more than a more than a detailed guy. Yeah, and Pete DeBore is, I think he was a little more towards the, towards the laying the hammer down. but he was, Pete was a very, he's a very laid back guy. And, and I think that that vibe kind of went through the team. They were very laid back. And I think at some points that can be good. I think it can put the team under less pressure.

I think when the team is struggling, it's easier to deal with a coach like that. Whereas Bruce Cassidy, he is not afraid to, to call guys out. He's not afraid to take ice time away from players that, that aren't performing the way he thinks they should. So, um, I think that, in a lot of cases when you switch coaches, it's good to kind of go the opposite of what you had before. And I think the Golden Knights have definitely done that. In terms of the scheme,

it's been really fun to watch him install this zone defense. The Golden Knights have played man-to-man defense for basically all five years. There was a couple months where they tried to play zone defense right there at the end of the Gerard-Gillant era before they fired him. But aside from that, they've played man-to-man for five years. years. And Bruce Cassidy brings in, especially when they're hemmed in their defensive zone for extended time, they go to a strictly zone concept where they don't chase players around. The

defensemen stay near the net. The centerman kind of patrols up and down the slot and the wingers cover everything on the outsides. And what it's led to is a team that plays hockey in a very different way. The Golden Knights, usually they don't want to spend any time in their defensive zone. And every second that they're in their defensive zone, they're pressuring the puck as hard as they can to try to win the puck back so that they can eventually get it back. Whereas under Cassidy, they definitely are okay defending. They'll defend for longer. They play more in their defensive zone than they ever have, but they don't give up those

dangerous chances in the middle. I think it's much easier to protect the front of the net when you're okay letting the players hold the puck on the outsides of the zone. So it's something that's very different. I thought it would take a lot longer to install it and for it to work, but it hasn't. It's been brilliant from the very beginning. I think the schedule has certainly done them some favors, but maybe the most impressive thing so far with Cassidy and with this team, and I think that maybe the players deserve maybe even more credit than Cassidy, is they are

playing this zone defense incredibly well right off of that. Yeah, let's put a pin in the defensive scheme, because I do want to get into that as well. I want to first touch on the sort of the point you were making about the differences and personalities, I guess, between the coaches. And the reason why I framed the question that way is because I definitely heard that, you know, Pete DeBurre had sort of, was not necessarily a disciplinarian, but certainly like, you know, with his law degree and everything. Like he was very detail-oriented, very into preparation, right? And I feel like at some point that wore down the players a little bit. And it's interesting that they brought in Bruce Cassidy, because he's obviously a different personality type and maybe more of a disciplinarian.

But it feels like his firing in Boston seemed to be much less about on-ice performance and results. They made the playoffs in every year he had been coaching the team. It was much more about kind of the reality of how tough it is to maintain longevity behind the benches and NHL head coach without having that message, that daily sort of message and line of communication go a bit stale and wearing down the relationships you have with your players. And now clearly coming into Vegas, you know, he gets sort of a fresh start with these guys and they've clearly embraced that new message of his. Yeah, I think talking to Bruce Cassidy, it's easy to see how a player could, how that could wear on a player.

He is very, very upfront and there's a lot of transparency. He, just for me, when I ask if a player played well, pretty much for the last five years, whether the player played well or not, the coach said, yeah, they played well. Bruce Cassidy flat out tells you, Brett Howden missed the net way too many times tonight. I told him after the game, you have to put those shots on net. It's something that I'm not used to hearing from the coach. and I can see how that would rub the players the wrong way. What I will say, though, is if you pay close enough attention,

he takes the blame when he thinks he, like the other night, they gave up that goal 13 seconds into the period against Winnipeg to go down 1-0 and 1-0. And Bruce Cassidy comes out and flat-out says, I switched the matchups during the intermission. I told them last minute, I probably should have given them more time during the intermission to process that and understand it.

So that goal's on me. so he's very he's self-accountable but he also holds the players accountable and like I said I think after a long time I think I can see it's easy to see how that would wear on players I think certain players are going to take it a lot better than others I think certain players that will help them though like jack Eichols one that I think it has helped and I think it will continue to make him better but then I also think that after a long time of hearing the same things I can see how as much as I've liked Cassidy's approach, I can see how it would wear on guys. I mean, I think that's sort of the reality for everyone, regardless of your approach, right?

You look at the current how long each coach has been with their teams. John Cooper, Mike Sullivan, and Jared Benner are the only guys that are currently with the teams they've been with for at least five full seasons. And that kind of feels like that's the lifespan for a head coach these days. And all three of those coaches have notably won Stanley Cups with those teams as well. Okay, so let's get into that sort of defensive. scheme then they you pointed out at the start because the results there are clearly sparkling, right? They've given up just 19 goals against total in 11 games, only 13 of those that come at 5 on 5.

They're in the top five of pretty much every single important defensive metric across the board from the rate of chances they're conceding to the number of expected goals they're surrendering as well. So it's not like this is just sort of a purely a shooting percentage or say percentage bender. This is a great process. And this has been a hallmark of Cassidy's where a year over a year, the Bruins are one of the stingiest teams in terms of their defensive structure and what they surrendered, especially at five on five. Now, it was kind of easy to point to, all right, well, you know, you have Patrice Bersh on, you have Brad Mershont out there, you have Charlie McAvoy. That's a pretty good nucleus to kind of start off with and have those guys at the ice and all these crucial moments

and they can make any coach look good in terms of a defensive tactician. But it's interesting that you already sort of noticed some of those changes and the and the dividends they're paying already for this team. Yeah, and I do think the Golden Knights have the personnel, like, they may not have a Bergeron, but like Mark Stone is the winger version of that. And they've got really good defensive centers in Chandler-Stevenson and William Carlson. Jack Eichael, I think, has some ways to go in that defensively, but he's so powerful and he's so strong that even he has been making some really nice plays in his own end. And they've got a really veteran blue line. I think that is probably the biggest reason they've been able to adapt to this new defense so quickly

is you have guys like Alex Petrangelo, Alec Martinez, Braden McNabb, Shade Theodore. Their younger pairing is Zach White Cloud and Nick Hague, and they're two guys that are that are pretty seasoned at this point, and they've played together for a long time. They were a pair in the HL prior to coming up to the NHL. So there's just a lot of continuity in the defense, and they haven't had an injury yet, which is a huge difference from last year. At least on the defense, they haven't. They haven't missed a couple games from depth forwards.

But they've had the same six defensemen basically every game so far. So there's also a lot of continuity there. And I think that that has helped them learn this system really well. I also think that the Golden Knights are kind of built. I didn't know how this system would work with them. But the more I watch it, the more I think, man, this personnel group is built to play this defense. Because the Golden Knights are a really big.

team. They don't necessarily play all that heavy in terms of the hits, but they play a heavy game. They're strong. They win a lot of puck battles. They're strong along the walls. They're really long and ranging. They've got a lot of long sticks on this team, from Michael to Stone, to Haig, to McNabb, all these guys. When they're playing that zone defense and they're in their structure, it just feels like there's no, it's not possible to get the puck into the center of the ice. Like, it can't be done. Because they're so long, they're so strong, and because they have such good sticks. So I think it's been a really good match with what Cassidy's trying to get them to do defensively early on. Well, and I think you hit the nail on the head there in terms of the key

distinction for them so far has been that ability to kind of keep everything in front of them and protect that net fund. And that's, you know, clearly made life significantly easier for Logan Thompson so far, not that I want to take away from his performance by any means because he's been awesome and he's made the saves when he's needed to. And, and I think most importantly, he's kind of given them a level of consistency there in terms of knowing exactly when you're, you're going to get from his performance from night and night out. But while he has a 9-40 say percentage so far this year, you dig a little bit deeper and it's like, all right, they're not giving up anything in front of them.

I think out of the 41 goalies that have played at least four games so far, so pretty much all the regulars, he has the fifth furthest average shot distance in terms of where the shots he's facing are coming from, same with high danger chances against. Like, they're limiting so much in front of them in terms of all the key indicators of what you want to protect against. And so he's played well. but in this defensive structure, I think a lot of goalies are going to wind up looking pretty good

if they keep this up. Yeah, for sure. Bruce Cassidy, the day they hired him, he said, I have a goalie-friendly system, and it's pretty clear why. Yes. It shows you why they did so well last year in Boston with a kind of similar situation

of what the Golden Knights are in, and two guys in Olmark and Swainman that nobody had really seen be a number one goalie. We didn't know how it was going to work, and it worked out pretty well for Boston last year. They had over 100 points, they made the playoffs. You're seeing the same thing here with Logan Thompson and Aden Hill.

I will say Logan Thompson has not led in a bad goal yet, which is not easy to do in 11 games. There's not one goal you could say, wow, you should have had that one. And then the other thing is, in the rare opportunities that he's had to make big saves, he's already made several ones. I'm sure anyone who watches the highlights has seen a couple. He had a really nice glove, save against Calgary. He had a really big one against L.A. But I agree with you.

The defense has made it very easy on him. It's kind of, it's a big shift in terms of what the Golden Knights allow, because under Pete DeBoer, they didn't allow much at all. I mean, their shot totals against were so low. Both in terms of volume, like just shot attempts, the course he was way down. They never gave up anything. They spent the whole game in the offensive zone,

but then when they would allow a chance, it would be a guy wide open right in front of the net. And that is such a hard game to play for goalies, to not get the action. And then when you're asked to make a save, it's an incredibly difficult one. You're not feeling the puck. You don't feel in the game. You're not in the zone. And then all of a sudden you have to make a top save.

Whereas this year, as I mentioned, the Golden Knights have been spending more time in their defensive zone than usual. I mean, they've been giving up more shots than they're used to, which is weird when you think, okay, this team's playing great defense. But I love Moneypuck. They qualify them as low danger, medium danger and high danger. the Golden Knights have allowed the fourth most low danger shots against in the entire NHL. The only teams that have allowed more are San Jose, Anaheim, and Columbus, which are three terrible defensive teams. So it's interesting that they've allowed the fewest goals,

but they've allowed the fourth most low danger shots. To me, that's getting their goalies into the game. That's allowing Logan Thompson and Aden Hill to feel the puck, it's allowing them to feel like they're in the game. And then on the rare occasion that you do have a breakdown, and there's someone on a on a breakaway or an odd man rush, they are, to me, more engaged in the game and they're able to make a big save. And their high danger shots against are amongst the best in the league.

There are very few, I mean, they're fifth fewest. So they're allowing a lot of easy saves for their goalies, and they're not allowing many tough ones. And I think that's a recipe for a high safe percentage. Yeah. I mean, clearly, if you're consistently just bleeding shots against and giving up high volume regardless of where they're coming from, it's probably, it's like it can be an indicator.

that you just aren't very good in terms of not how you don't have the puck and that can eventually kind of you know break you down defensively and lead to high danger opportunities against but as long as the percentage of them of what you're giving up is further out from the net is easier for your goalie to stop i mean teams in today's game will live with those shots from the point or shots where the goalie can see it all night long and i think for this golden night's team that actually represents quite a refreshing sort of turning of the tables because that's kind of what teams have done to them in the past where it's just kind of keeping them to the outside and allowing them to tire themselves out all night with these shots from distance and pile up these crazy shot totals.

But at the end of the day, you look at where they were coming from and what they were actually able to accomplish. And it wasn't, you know, much in terms of functionality. Definitely. And then I think another thing that's been an interesting wrinkle into Cassidy's system is so when they hired Cassidy, I went and I compared like all the, the team stats from Boston to Vegas. And one of the things that really stood out to me was the Bruins are near the bottom of the league in blocks pretty much every year under Cassidy, like one of the five teams with the fewest blocks in the league.

And the Golden Knights were a big time heavy blocking team under Pete DeBore. I remember the day they hired Pete DeBore. He said blocking shots will be a non-negotiable. It's one of the things I don't think this team does enough. We're going to block a bunch of shots. And they did. So I was wondering, like, how is that going to go? Well, I spoke to a few of the players.

Zach White Cloud and Alec Martinez are two of the biggest shot blockers on the team. I asked them, is this zone defense, are you being asked to block less shots? Do you think your block totals are going to go down? And they both told me, no, I think it's actually easier to block shots in this system because I'm not chasing guys around. I'm standing in front of the net. I'm able to get in shot lanes. It should be easier.

And I thought that was interesting because in Boston, the shot, the block totals weren't high. Well, the Golden Knights lead the league in blocks. Alex Martinez has 51 blocks already. That's 10 more than any player in the league and 20 more than the third most blocks. They've got Braden McNab, Zach White Cloud, Alex Petrangelo are all in the top 15 in blocks. So they're blocking a ton of shots. I think that adds, I'm not going to say the Golden Knights are better at this defense than the Bruins were. They still have a long way to go.

They have to play some really good teams and prove that they can do it against elite competition. But I think that that is an aspect that the Bruins weren't as good at. that this particular personnel maybe can add another layer to Cassidy's defense. I'd imagine there's probably at least some level of correlation between the distance shots are coming from

and the amount of blocks you're able to take, right, in terms of if you're giving up point shots and you know exactly where they're coming from, it's kind of easier for these guys to just lay out and block that as opposed to if you're scrambling around your zone and all of a sudden guys are popping up wide open in the slot. I do quickly want to actually pivot

to talking about the team's offensive approach, and I think it ties into this, and we've alluded to it a little bit. But one big change that I've noticed with this incarnation under Bruce Cassidy compared to Pete DeBurr is the shot distribution for the team when they have the puck. So last year, at 515, their defensemen accounted for 41% of the attempts they took as a team, which was the highest rate in the league. No one else hit 40. I think next up were the Oilers, and that was a bit misleading because that was mostly while

Dave Tippett was running the team after. Woodcroft took over, it changed quite a bit, and they changed their offensive approach. And then it was unsurprising the hurricanes who love to take point shots and love to just pepper looks from distance with their defensemen because they feel like they can, you know, pursue the puck after, get rebounds, have multiple efforts after that. And they've sort of uniquely been able to overcome that. But I think for the most part, it's a pretty suboptimal approach in terms of efficiency. And so this year, I noted that that has gone down from 41% to 33%. And that's a huge change in my opinion. And it kind of reflects what I've been seeing in these games in terms of, you know,

it helps that Eichl's healthy, Stone's healthy. All of a sudden, their big guns upfront are actually in the lineup and they can create more themselves. But I think it increases this team's offensive ceiling, especially later on in the season when they're playing better defensive teams, approaching the postseason when all of a sudden you get into these series settings where you're playing the same team over and over again. And I think that could potentially be a big difference maker, or a differentiator for them to prevent some of these outcomes we've seen in past postseason runs

where every goalie they play kind of seems to turn into prime Dominic Ashek. Right. No, I totally agree with you. It's definitely, Cassidy's philosophy is definitely to run the offense more through the forwards and use the defensemen as distributors, as opposed to shooters like they were, like you mentioned under Pete. I wasn't sure how the defenseman would would transition to that. So far it's been pretty good. It's interesting that they have only one defenseman with a goal so far, which is crazy. It's Shay Fiedor and he has three.

But I think they also, the broadcast had they lead the league in terms of points from their defensemen, though? Yes, Alex Petrangelo, I think he's up to 13 assists. I haven't checked after last game. Yeah, I think he had three assists last night. He has been really good in terms of distributing the puck. It's something that Cassidy said, I mean, like right from day one, I think at the time he was talking about the power play, but it goes for their five-on-five offense as well,

as he says he wants shots closer to the net than what the Goldenites were doing, and the only way to do that is to get it in the forwards hands. And like you mentioned, they've got the forwards to do it this year. Last year they were all injured. I think the Eichol-Stevenson-Stone line has done probably the best job of it, but the misfit line, now that they're reunited over the last few games, they've been getting better and better. They looked really good the other night.

So, yeah, they're definitely generating offense from the forwards. I think they're, to me, one of the things I've noticed is they're playing from behind the goal line a lot more. And that seems to be a place they create a lot of their high danger chances from is behind the net. Last night, they had a really good chance from behind a pass from Phil Castle to Michael Amadio, and it was a big save on the play, but still a really dangerous chance. to me that has been something we haven't seen from this Golden Knights team much is passes from below the goal line into the slot area for shots. And I think that's definitely something they're emphasizing this year. They haven't done it enough.

I think a lot of those passes are just sailing through and there's nobody there and it ends up all the way out to the point. But they're still adjusting to it. It's still something new for this team. So I expect them to get better as the season goes on. But I agree with you that it does feel like when this team made the playoffs, the last few times, it felt like the same story over and over and over again. And I think that whether or not this works, it's definitely going to be a different story this time. Yeah. Yeah, there was another one, I believe, in the third period against the capitals,

where Mark Stone was actually kind of left alone streaking through the middle of the ice, and he had a great opportunity to score as well off of that. I really do think, like, I remember you and I had a conversation sort of towards the start of last year where they were pretty banged up, and Alex Petrangelo was logging these just preposterous ice time total. and he was basically accounting for like every single thing they did offensively. And his underlying numbers took a hit as a result. And people were wondering about his contract and his level of efficiency and kind of whether he was entering a new phase of his career.

And I think I've noticed this year, you know, they toned down his usage a little bit, especially at 5-1-5 where I believe he's playing about a minute and a half or two less per game. They're not forcing as many shots from him from the point. And he's not having us, you know, singularly create everything. And I think it's actually been a net positive for him where all of a sudden, And every time he's out there, he's got more energy, he's got more juice. He's able to kind of get more out of the shifts he does have. And so I do think that's going to be a net positive for them in terms of the way they're approaching

this, the way they're utilizing their defensemen and kind of prolonging them throughout the year so that they can actually kind of stay healthy, stay in the lineup and give them the best results moving forward. Yeah, I agree. I mean, Petrangelo is still a horse. He's still playing 23 and a half minutes, which is he's over two minutes more than the next closest player, which is Theodore. but that's like you said down from last year I thought last year he was phenomenal through the first maybe 20 or 30 games and I even wrote a story saying why you shouldn't believe the numbers because his analytics were terrible but when you watch the game and when I talk to the players it's like this guy is doing absolutely everything out there and I think it killed him I think it just wore him down he is a big guy he's 33 now he was 32 last year he's he's he's

he just couldn't sustain that for 82 games. So I thought down the stretch last year, I wouldn't say he was bad, like he was a liability on the ice. He just wasn't the playmaker. He wasn't controlling the play. He wasn't making the difference that you know a guy like Alex Petrangelo can make.

I thought he was just kind of out there eating up ice time for the last maybe 50 games of the year. And I think a big reason was just, he was just worn down. I think that he over-exerted himself early in the season when there were so many injuries. tried to do everything. And I agree with you that if they can limit his usage this year, not put everything on him, he'll be a lot better as the season goes on. And this is a guy that, to me, he is one of the few guys that when I watch him, there are certain games where he can just

flip the switch. Like he'll be kind of just cruising, cruising, cruising, cruising, and then he decides the team's down a goal in the third period and he starts getting double shifted. He just turns it on and he's a different player. And I think that the Golden Knights, if they can keep him, fresh, you keep that that mode ready for the playoffs. I remember that run that they went on two years ago when they beat the abs and went to the final, or conference final. Petrangelo is the best player on the ice for most of those games. So they need to get him back to that level. And I think he's definitely got it in the tank if he can get to the playoffs with a little more gas. All right, Jesse, I've got a lot more thoughts on this team's offense. And we haven't even talked about Mark Stone yet.

we could probably do a full show on that. So we're going to hit all of that after the break here. We're going to be back soon. We are talking about the Golden Knights here with Jesse Granger on the Hockey PDOCast on the Sportsnet Radio Network. We're back here on the Hockey PEOCast of Jesse Granger talking about the Vegas Golden Knights. Jesse, I want to keep going with the theme that we had before the break in terms of talking about the Golden Knights' offensive approach. And while we were on our break, I was looking this up just so I had the actual numbers to back up the game theory behind it. So I mentioned how last year the Golden Knights, 41% of their 5-on-5 attempts are coming from

defensemen down to 33% so far this season. Last year, forwards around the league turned 6% of their shot attempts into goals, while defensemen did so 2% of the time, so one-third of as often. And, you know, that makes sense intuitively just because not their forwards are not only more talented with a puck on their stick, but they're generally in better positions to shoot from. And so the reason why all of that ties into this is because, because it's been such a recurring theme for the Golden Knights where when they've been in the postseason the past three years, they bump into teams. And a lot of the time, I think it's fair to say, less talented teams that realize they could just kind of pack the pain, pack the middle of the ice, and force them or dare them into taking those low percentage shots from the outside and winning the battle on the shot counter, but ultimately not getting much in the way of actual goals from it.

And I think for a long time, you and I have had many conversations about this. We wondered how much it was pure randomness, how much it was a lack of their finishing ability on the team, how much of it was actually their approach. And, you know, we'll still see it's very early in the season. I don't think we can take much from these first 11 games or whatever. This will ultimately be tested come the postseason. But just in terms of that approach and where they're getting the shots from and who's taking it from them, I do wonder how much that increases this team's offensive ceiling

and whether they finally found some sort of a solution. to get around that because after having it happened so often, I refuse to believe that it's just kind of a random thing that they had no part in happening. Yeah, I agree. I think that they definitely, it definitely had at least something to do with both the scheme and the personnel. I think the golden, I think Pete DeBore's system of shooting from the outside, like you mentioned Carolina does it really well.

I just, I thought they did it well in San Jose and they had the right forwards to tip pucks to get those secondary, to retrieve rebounds and get those secondary chances. I just thought Vegas didn't really have the players to get to the middle, to get in the goalie's eyes, to create those kind of chaos situations off of those long shots. So I do think the personnel is to blame for it, but I think that also the system running the offense through the defensemen, through the point, had a little bit to do with it also.

I agree with you that they still have a lot to prove. And I also think that while the team has been scoring a lot of goals early, most of them have come in transition, which is where this team is deadly. I mean, I don't know if there's a stat to back this up, but when I watch hockey every night, I don't see a team that executes more consistently in transition than the Golden Knights do,

and it's been that way for a long time. They score all their goals in transition, and a lot of them have come in transition early in the season, and as we know, the longer the season goes on, the defense starts to tighten up, and in the postseason, teams take that away from you, And that's a big part of why the Golden Knights have struggled to score is they can't get those transition chances in the playoffs. Last season, Pete DeBore switched their neutral zone forecheck from a 1-2-2, which is what they'd run for a long time, to a 1-3-1.

And the whole purpose of doing that was he was trying to force more turnovers in the neutral zone, being more aggressive, trying to force more turnovers to feed that transition offense. And while I think it did, I also think they were worse to. defensively because of it, and I think it maybe it didn't work as good as well as he had hoped. But I did like the thought process of, we can't just keep doing the same thing. We've got to change something. He tried to force more. Now, Cassidy's moved them back to the one-two-two this year, which I think they're much better at. That was the forecheck that they ran on that playoff run when they shut down the abs in the neutral zone.

And they just, they shut down fast teams really well. They slow them up. They've done it this year. they did it against the abs. Even though they lost that game, it was, I thought they held the abs in check. It was just power play where they gave up the goals.

But I think this team still has to prove that it can score with sustained offensive zone time and not just bringing the puck up the ice in transition. Because I think there's no doubting that they're going to be able to score that. It's just the personnel. And Jack Eichol, to me, makes them even more dangerous. They were good in transition before they had Eichol, and now you give them one of the most powerful skaters with an insane wrist shot who if you give him a look at the goal in a dangerous spot you might as well just

count the goal it's almost not fair for the goalie so they're even better now in transition but that dries up in the when the playoffs get here it is so hard to live on that type of offense in the playoffs as the golden nights have found out before well and I should say they're coming off a game recently where they had six point two expected goals worth of offense against the Jets and score twice once in regulation right overtime as well and I think that was much more about Pellibuck being a freak and being able to just, you know, have individual performances like that more so than a repeat of kind of that fatal flaw. But, yeah, there's going to be a lot to prove here. I do think, you know, you talk about Eichol's transition ability.

I actually think part of the problem for them in the past was I think they understood that it was a suboptimal approach. They just didn't have a viable solution in place to kind of break through and attack the inside of the ice off those set plays in the offensive zone with any kind of consistency. you know, Chandler Stevenson's ability to fly up the ice, and especially after Mark Stone creates a turnover and then kind of attack and transition that way is great when he's going north-south, but all of a sudden, if you're stuck in the offensive zone, you don't have as much of an advantage

because the defenders don't really need to worry about backpedaling. They can kind of keep everything in front of them, and you can't really challenge them on an east-west perspective. And seeing how good Eichols looked so far and how healthy he's looked and finding that explosive form again is such a game change, I imagine why they were so hell-bent ongoing and getting him and paying the price that they did to bring him in, even if it meant having to ship out other valuable players,

is because he does unlock that needed offensive aspect for them where he can penetrate into the middle of the ice and create quality looks for not only himself, but his teammates. And we've seen that, albeit at three-on-three, but we've seen that in the past couple games, and that's an element that they didn't really have that much of in the past unless they were attacking in transition. Yeah, I agree. And I think he actually needs to do it even more is skate attack the net with the puck. Skate downhill.

Don't just stand still. I think that that's kind of what they've been trying to do on the power play is have him skating downhill toward the net. And so far they've gotten him to do it the last couple games. And to me, it's the best their power play has looked in in probably three years. But they need that at five on five also. I think that of all their line, like the misfit line, mentioned Carlson, Marcia So, and Smith, they've looked really good, but they're the same old,

same old. I mean, they're doing what they do well, which is score in transition, and they forecheck the crap out of you, and if you turn it over, they'll score quickly before you can set your defense up, but they're not as good at creating once all 10 players are, or once all 10 skaters are in the zone and set up in the defense. So to me, the line that has done the best job of breaking down those defenses and those situations is that top line of Eichel, Stevenson, and Stone. I mean, their analytics are pretty insane how good they've been. I've got them up here. Do I mean to give you them right now?

Yeah, go for it. So 75-15 minutes together. Shots are 56 to 16. Goals are 5-0 and high danger chances are 28 to 7. And I think what's notable is I was looking at this. I thought this was the case, but I wanted to confirm it. They didn't play a single second together last year, the three of them. No, they didn't.

Eichol and Stone barely played together at all just because of their injuries didn't really match up and also the Golden Knights were $10 million over the salary caps. So when Stone came, when Ikel came back, it was time for Stone to go out and they did that whole juggling act. But yeah, no, and they didn't start the season together.

They were split up to start the season. And after I think it was four games, Cassidy decided to load up that top line. For the first few games, Cassidy was trying to build three dangerous offensive lines. And he had William Carlson and Jonathan Marshall

to sew down on the third line. And he had Brett Houdin up with Mark Stone and Stevenson. And he had Kessel up on the top line with Eichel. And it just wasn't working. None of the three were really producing the way they wanted to. And I think he quickly realized, okay, we don't have the high-end forward talent enough of it to make three dangerous lines. Let's just make two.

And he's consolidated it. He stacked that top line. And then let's just put the three guys that were kind of being spread in Kessel, Madio and Howden. Let's put them all on the third line and just see what they can do. And honestly, they've surprised me. They've been better than I thought they were going to be. Phil Kessels looked much better down on that third line. I don't know if it's because of the matchups. Maybe he's not playing players against players that check quite as well when he's got those third line minutes.

I also think it might have to do with he's just not deferring to Eichl and Smith all the time. He can be the man down there. He can have a little bit more of the puck. I think that probably has something to do with it. But he's definitely looked better down on that line than he did up on the, top line with Eichl and Smith. So so far, stacking these lines the way he has these last few games has definitely, it definitely looks a lot better than did early in the year. Yeah. I mean, how it's been so rewarding to see Mark Stone just looking healthy and spry and himself again, you know, a peek behind the curtain for the listeners. You and I were talking in the offseason.

We were going to collaborate. You were working on a big feature for Mark Stone that you were hoping to drop for the start of the season for the season for the season opener for the Golden Knights. And there was a period of time there were where I think we were both legitimately concerned that we wouldn't be able to run the piece just because we were unclear on whether he would actually be in the opening day lineup. And so now 11 games in, he's looking like himself. It's interesting that NHL has him down for a big beef of mine year over year. They have him down for nine takeaways so far this season. I think he's got conservatively in the 35 range so far this year based on. based on what I've seen, but, you know, I guess that's a move point.

Regardless of how many takeaways they've gotten down for, he's back to his old kind of bag of trick. So I guess we can talk a little bit here about sort of that piece we put together and kind of the method to his madness sort of in terms of how he attacks and in the neutral zone and the magical things he does defensively off of the puck, especially. Yeah, I mean, he is just unbelievable without the puck in the neutral zone. forechecking. One of the things that I was fascinated by that I kind of led that piece off with was just the way Bruce Cassidy described him as a ghost, because

it's something that never really crossed my mind. I didn't think about it that specifically, but he mentioned that Stone is very good at timing his move so that the defenseman, when he's retreating back to his zone to get the puck,

can't predict what Stone's going to do because Stone will stay like say, okay, for example, he'll stay on the left hip of this defenseman so that when the guy does his shoulder check and he looks over his left shoulder, he sees, okay, Stone's on the left. He does it one more time. He looks, okay, Stone's on the left. I'm going to go to my right. Well, the moment he turns his head, Stone realizes that, and suddenly he switches to the right side, and he just fools these guys. And this is a guy who is not outskating anyone. I don't, I don't think there's a player in the league that Mark Stone can outskate, but yet he's constantly

chasing them down and taking the puck from them and beating them to spots. And it's just, it's unreal what he can do with his mind, despite not being the most agile guy. Another person that was great putting that piece together, I was talking to Eric Carlson, and he said, man, that guy, he plays so fast. And he's like, Carlson said, most people, when they hear plays fast, they think, oh, he skates fast, but playing fast has nothing to do with how fast you move your skates. things happen so fast down on ice level a lot of people don't realize how fast they're happening and for mark stone they aren't fast they're slow he sees everything happening um with such clarity that he's able that's why his stick is so good he's able to intercept those passes it's why he's able to predict where guys are going to go he just sees the game um on another level he does and i think just as importantly is what he does next right and i think that's why

Chandler Stevensen has been such an effective weapon alongside him because as soon as Stone gets that puck, especially if it's kind of in the neutral zone on the wall or whatever, he gets it up to him so quickly. And if Chandler Stevens is allowed to skate into it, he's probably going to have a straight line to the net and be able to make something happen. And so that's why the two of them have worked so beautifully together and kind of found that chemistry. Yeah, it's unreal how good they play together. Mark Stone calls Stevenson the fastest player he's ever played with. And when I was talking to Stevenson for that Stone piece, that was the first thing he brought up was it's not just that he steals it.

It's the pass he makes after it. And it's not just that he steals it and passes it quickly. He puts it in space so that you can skate into it. He's not trying to feed you this perfect pass that if it's not perfectly on, it'll be in your skates or it'll be a little behind you and you've got to slow down your momentum to catch it. Stone is so good at just kind of putting the puck into open areas of the ice that he knows you're going to skate into a,

Again, that's the anticipation part of his game that's so good. And Stevenson's really been able to take advantage of it. Stevenson joked like there's no such thing as a 50-50 puck with Mark Stone. Like if he sees Stone closing in on the guy, he can basically start wheeling around the other way because he knows a pass is coming to him soon because you don't get past Mark Stone. He's taking the puck from you. Yeah, in preparation for that piece, I remember you asked me to, you know, pick out a couple of my favorite Mark Stone clips to send to you and kind of explain why.

and that almost ruined my day because my mind was just racing. I was like, how do I pick two or three out of these like 100 clips that I've got saved? So that was quite an adventure, but I'm pretty happy with how I wound up turning out. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah, you sent me a ton of them and I was like, oh, this is great. I literally spent all day just watching them and I was like ranking them. And you even had them broken down into different folders, different categories of steals. It was so great.

You and I both appreciate Mark Stone's game, I think, more than most. So it was nice to see how you had it broken down. It was awesome. Yeah, well, I'm so fascinated about that element of just kind of how he processes the ice and what he sees in front of him because you're right. Like the foot speed isn't necessarily there, but he's pretty much the first of the puck. And part of it is just kind of a keen understanding of generally playing the percentages of where the puck is going to go or what his opposition is going to do or kind of how it's going to

bounce off the boards. But I'm just so fascinated about that, about just. I'd love to like see it through his eyes and kind of just watch tape with him and go through a shift and be like, all right, why did you do this? Like what what kind of gave you the idea that this was going to happen and then act accordingly? Because I think it would be a really fascinating kind of case study. Yeah. And like talking to him, I think the biggest reason why. I mean, partially you're, he's just, he's just special.

There aren't many guys that see the ice like him. But I think another big part of it is his just love for hockey. He watches so much hockey. I put this in the piece. I mean, this summer he built another room in his house, specifically for watching hockey because his wife doesn't like watching hockey as much as he does. He joked.

He's got three TV setups. Yeah, he's got three TV set up so he can watch the games every night. He watches his brother in Calgary. He watches all those games. He loves watching Brady Kachep's games. He's real close with him. He loves watching. He said he watches pretty much all of McDavid's games

because he just likes watching him play. and trying to pick up little things from the best player in the world. He just really enjoys playing hockey. And when I, are watching hockey. And when I say that, I don't, he's not like studying. This isn't a like obsession. Like, I must get better. I'm going to go home and watch it.

Mark Stone just loves hockey. He just, that's what he wants to do. When he goes home, what do I want to do? I want to watch hockey. And I think he's been that way his whole life. He talked about he would, after his games ended when he was a kid, he would just go get dressed and then go sit in the stands and watch the other games because he just wanted to watch the other kids play hockey and see

what they did and just a very curious way of watching it. Everything he's watching, he's wondering why guys are doing things that way. Oh, can I do it? Can I put that into my game? And he's like, I'm never going to be able to skate like Connor McDavid, but there are certainly things he does that I can pick up on. It's just a very curious love for the game of hockey, and it translates into someone who is terrifying to try to get past.

You kind of, the way you portrayed that, it was in a very, like, just sweet light in terms of, like, lighthearted, oh, this guy just loves hockey, and he gets to do it all the time. I like to picture him much more maniacally just sitting in a dark room, just watching clips of Connor McDavid be like, all right, so when the puck is here, this is what he does. So next time I'm out there against him, this is what I need to do and kind of just like breaking it down in that way

as opposed to just kind of more of a lighthearted enjoyment of the game. He's got the hair to be a mad scientist for sure. He does. Okay, one final note here. We did mention Stevenson. And I'm kind of curious about this because I think it's a common constant thing that I see because when the Golden Knights acquired him, I believe he was in his age 25 season or so. He hadn't necessarily, I don't really think shown that much at that NHL level particularly

to suggest that this was in his future. Now, we know that clearly part of his environment, surroundings being put in a position to succeed, getting to play with Mark Stone is awesome as we just talked about, especially now he's playing with both Stone and Eichel. That's a pretty sweet spot to be in. terrific skater. But I'm kind of curious in terms of the process there

from like, I know George McPhee was around when they drafted him in Washington, it was familiar with him, but in terms of the scouting of him and kind of what they identified

there to give them belief that this was in him or has it just been a total kind of pleasant surprise on their part where they brought him in expecting, okay, you could be, he could be an interesting

little piece for us and then all of a sudden he kind of grew into this role over time. Yeah, I don't know if they, well, they probably didn't expect He's a legitimate first-line player in the NHL. But I do remember the night they traded for Chandler-Steampton,

I can't remember where we were, but we were on the road. And I went up to Kelly McCriman after, and I was just kind of talking to him in the hallway, and he said, like, we think there's more there. And he didn't really go into it, but he's like, we think that there's more there. He's only a fourth-round pick is all they gave up. When he was in Washington, he, I mean, his goal totals, he had six goals one year and five goals the next year. So not doing much.

But if you look back to when George McPhee, obviously, he was in Washington, he drafted him. I'm actually, it's funny, I'm working on a story right now, kind of going back and looking at this. So I've been doing quite a bit of a deep dive on this. But one person I talked to said he was basically Gredski in Saskatoon. And I went back and looked in his U-15 AA hockey days for the Saskatoon. outlaws. He had 136 points in 60 games. So that's pretty good. He definitely had the offensive skill. He was an offensive and high-end offensive player when they drafted him. He scored 30 goals, 89 points in 69 games for the Regina Pax, his last year in junior hockey. He

was a high-end offensive player that, for whatever reason, it just didn't translate when he when he got to Washington early in his NHL career. I think a big part of that is the center depth in Washington was just so good with Kuznetsov and Baxter and he just didn't get to play with good players and he was kind of stuck on that fourth

line and it's kind of similar to what we saw with William Carlson and Columbus before he got to Vegas where he just never really was given the opportunity to play with skilled offensive players and confidence is a hell of a thing and when you're playing on a checking line where you're dumping and chasing it's very easy to kind

get stuck into that and it's like, okay, this is what I have to do to be in the NHL, so I'm just going to be that. And then he comes to Vegas and they toss him between Stone and Patcheretti and suddenly the plays start happening. And he becomes that player that he was as a younger kid at the NHL level. The confidence starts to grow. He clearly has the speed. That part was never in question. I think the question was, does he have the hands to play at that speed? And as he's played more and more with skilled players in Vegas, we've seen that he does have the hands to finish in tight and to make those plays at that speed that he plays at. So it's,

it's been really fun to watch him turn into, I think, if you asked Chandler Stevenson, he knew he was this player all along, but he just wasn't able to be, to be that player in Washington with the people he played with, with the lines he played on, with the minutes he played. It's been really cool to see him kind of blossom into that guy here in Vegas. But yeah, he, he had the skills. They were just, they were laying dormant for a while. Yeah, well, this episode the show title now has to be the Gretzky of Saskatoon. That's quite the line for Chandler-Stevenson there. I love it.

All right, Jesse, this is a good place for us to bring it home to end the conversation. We mentioned the piece we collaborated on for opening night. I want you to tell the listeners where they can check that out, where they can check out this upcoming Stevenson feature, everything you do covering the Golden Knights because you're one of my favorite beat reporters in the game. Awesome. Thank you, man. Yeah, just head over to Theathletic.com. we always have discounts.

So if you're not a subscriber, there will be a discount, I think 50% off right now to subscribe to the athletic. It's not a very expensive subscription. If you like hockey and you like this kind of deep dive stuff, there's a ton of stuff, not just the Golden Knights, but all across the league that we do there. So thanks for having me, man. It's been a lot of fun.

All right. This is a blast. We'll certainly check back in with you as the season goes along. For the listeners, if you enjoy the show and want to show us some love, please do so by smashing that five-star button wherever you're listening, and we will be back tomorrow with more of the HockeyPedocast here on the Sportsnet Radio Network.