The Hockey PDOcast - The Impact Quinn Hughes Has Had to Start the Season

Episode Date: October 27, 2023

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Harman Dayal to break down the impact Quinn Hughes has had on Canucks games to start the season, and how he's done it at both ends of the ice. Then they talk about Matthew Poitras, Alexis Lafreniere, and other young players playing big roles for their respective clubs. This podcast was produced by Elan CharkThe views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Progressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Demetri Filippovich and joining me here in studio is my good buddy, Harmon Dile. What's going on, man? I'm doing well, man. I was telling you right before we started recording that I'm super hyped about this NHL regular season. I mean, usually I don't quite get hyped until the playoffs because I'm like, that's where the stakes are really at. but it's been, I don't know, something's different this year.

I feel the energy in October already. Is it because you're covering the 4-2-0 Vancouver Canucks? I'm sure that helps. I mean, usually at this point, we're already talking about them being at a playoff race and do we fire the coach, fire the GMs. So, I mean, that's, I think that's definitely helping too. Yeah, the quality of the hockey hasn't hurt

that you're covering on a day-to-day basis, and that's what we're going to talk about today. And in particular, we're going to talk a lot about Quinn Hughes, because if you're on hockey Twitter or you've been following the reason discourse, there's been quite a bit of chatter, I guess, about his, you know, his ranking at the defense position. I guess how we view him in relation to his peers at the top of the position. And rankings are like, whatever, man. I get it.

I've been doing the content game for long enough. Like, I know that lists do really well. people nothing really gets people going like a good list like it's in terms of arguments in terms of like back and forth i get it i don't think that's particularly valuable use of our time here to be like is he the seventh best defenseman in the world or is he the 13th best i think more interesting for our perspective is to do a proper breakdown of his game what we're seeing from this year both statistically and on tape because i think while i think he's been misdeme been misjudged as a player the past couple years. I think this year in particular, if you watch

the first six games he's played, he's taking his game to a whole new level and really alleviated pretty much any possible concern you might have. Do you agree with that? I mean, it's been about as polished a start to the season as anyone in the league has had. Aside from I was telling you, the Philly game and, you know, in his defense, they had a period there where they got outshot 22 to 3 by the Flyers. Like, he certainly wasn't alone in his performance. He made a few mistakes, he struggled a bit with the flyers pressure. Otherwise, it's been nearly immaculate from a precision perspective, both on and off the puck. He's been dynamite and really what's impressive is just also seeing the level of almost focus and determination. This is a guy

that looks like a man on a mission, I think especially taking on the captaincy and how much the team has struggled to win the last few seasons, he's desperate to win. And you can see it in the level of intensity and how he's holding himself up to a higher standard and even some of the perceived flaws in his game over the last two or three years. He's worked ruthlessly on ironing out those sort of aspects, right? Defensively, for instance, he had a really rough sophomore year in the short and 56 game. And I know that it killed him. It legit pissed him off so much because with Quinn in his defensive game, I remember having conversations with him.

It's always annoyed him that growing up as a prospect, he'd legit say that people would, without even watching me, look at my size and be like, oh, this guy's a defensive liability. And so he's always had that as a chip on his shoulder. and again, since that sophomore year, he's worked meticulously on improving it. And I think it's been a multi-year build-up to this point where now you're watching him play. And it feels like every game he's the single most impactful player on either team. Yeah. And I think sometimes, and this isn't just exclusive to him, I think in general, we tend to struggle with like once we decide what a player is, we have a really tough time recalibrating our expectations.

and our beliefs of that, right? And especially for a player who fits a certain mold where it's like an undersized defender who also puts up point totals, we've just been trained, I don't even say it for good and bad because it's mostly bad, to just be like, all right, well, this guy's kind of one dimensional. He's probably going to be a liability defensively, and that's the way they're talked about. And that season, you mentioned, the shortened one, it seems like in particular that really crystallized that belief in people's minds.

And to be fair, he did struggle defensively that year, right? certainly didn't help that his on-icey percentage absolutely plummeted and everything around him was bad as well but i think he was adjusting to life without chris tanniv the knucks were a mess there was a whole confluence of factors that year right since then that hasn't really been the case and this year in particular when you watch these six games i think he defends in maybe a different way than we're used to and i know he's talked about this as well and rick toggitt's talked about this where he's not going to necessarily you know mash you up against the boards and dislodging a puck from you that way he's going to have to do it more with like quickness and guile um i think that's

what what plays into it as well where maybe it just like you can't look at his block shots totals because i think he's only got like five so far or his hit totals he's only got two or any of the traditional things we look at to be like all right well he's doing stuff defensively you really have to actually get into the minutia of like little plays here and there that add up and that feels like that's kind of part of part of his resume absolutely i think one of the biggest sort of, one of those biggest specific areas that goes overlooked with Quinn is his ability to recover loose pox, right?

As a defensive team, there's sort of almost two ways or like two priorities when you're defending. Number one is when the opposition has the clear puck in zone and they're cycling it around, it's obviously, first of all, containing them, trying to play a tighter gap, keep them to the perimeter. And then if possible, the goal is obviously you want to somehow create a change of possession.

And some guys are cycle stoppers. Quinn's not one of them. But what he does so well is when the opposition shoots and there's, let's say, a rebound that sprays out into the corner, what would be normally for any other defensemen, a 50-50 race, Quinn is so quick to be the first one there. And he also has that poise composure with the puck that you just know going, even before he touches the puck, you're just like, this is going to be a clean Canucks possession. and they're going to generate a breakout.

And you'll notice it even when the Canucks have been worn down on a really long shift, even in those situations, he's been out there for, let's say, a minute. And there have been, even in those situations, he's still first to the puck and he's able to relieve pressure with a clearance, whereas, again, most defensemen in that situation, even if they get there first, they have to maybe eat the puck or it turns into a 50-50 battle. It's just as soon as he gets the puck in the defensive end,

you already know the puck's leaving the defensive zone yeah no it is and that's certainly an element of it actually thought in in rewatching um all of his shifts this season in preparation for today's show so i was watching all the clips on on instat and there they generally have the home team broadcast right and the connox were just on on this extensive road trip so you're generally watching the telecast of of the opposition in this case and i feel like these commentary teams aren't doing him any favors in terms of changing whatever those preconceived notions are about him. And the reason why I say that is, like, a lot of his defending is subtle. And the note that I had was, like, he disrupts just enough to allow support to come to, like,

turn it into a scrum along the board. So, like, it went from a dangerous potential play where the other team could have had a good look. And he, like, nudges the puck a bit away or just gets there with his skating to the point where all of a sudden other defenders can come and there's this crowd and it's not really a dangerous play anymore. And then sometimes as you mentioned he knocks it away, gets it out of the zone.

And so all of these little plays where the commentary team almost like they're like having a dialogue about whatever random third liner is on that team and Quinn makes a play and they don't even really acknowledge it. And so it's like, you know the saying of like if a tree falls and no one's like around to hear it

didn't make any sound. It's like if Quinn Hughes makes a subtle defensive play, but the commentary team doesn't acknowledge it, does the viewer even like registered that just happened? And that's like, it feels like, just if you're like listening to it and kind of casually watching it, you almost wouldn't even pick up that over the course of a 60 minute game in which you play 25 minutes, he made like 12 little defensive plays that were actually very useful, but weren't ever really perceived as such. Yeah, and the other side of the conversation about his defensive game that I think

makes him so special is he has this uncanny ability that you get the rewards of him being an elite offensive defenseman but somehow it feels like you don't get any of the risk and what I mean by that is despite how ambitious and aggressive he is offensively he never seems to make mistakes I mean like all over first of all when it comes to pinches to keep plays alive plays alive in the offensive zone I can't think

of many instances where he's pinched in a wrong spot, gone caught up the ice, and the other team has an odd man break. His puck management, I think considering how often he has it on a stick, it's extremely impressive how he never skates himself into trouble, especially when he's in the offensive zone at the left point, one of the last two men back, and he's trying to pull off these amazing dangles, he's darting down the half wall, pulling off these spin moves. I can't think of a moment where the winger has somehow been able to just poke the puck away and go off for a breakaway. And those are the types of breakdowns that when you watch somebody like Eric Carlson, it's like you drive so much offense that inevitably you're going to have some of those mistakes creep up.

But with Quinn, you rarely notice those types of mistakes. And I think it's a testament to we know that he has elite feed and the edgework and the elusiveness. but I think it also speaks volumes about how special as hockey IQ is, that he's able to put up these elite sort of offensive results and yet mitigate the risk so responsibly. Yeah, he's never cheating for offense in the sense that even sometimes if he comes down that left wall, right, to try to pinch and extend the play, he's always quickly recovering first guy back, gaps up in the neutral zone, forces a dump in, right?

You're never like, oh, he left his defensive partner on an island, and now he had to defend a two-on-one because Quinn Hughes got caught behind other teams net. And that is a really special quality because he is taking, he takes very calculated risks, I guess, right? Like he plays within his limits, as you said, but he'll push the envelope, but to the point where he knows he can recover and still do it in a safe manner. And he does that time and time again, repetitively, essentially. And, you know, the other note that I had before we get into some of the offensive stuff, which certainly we could talk plenty about, is he uses a lot of. of that skating you mentioned like the edgework and everything in small area defending really well where if he if he attaches to a puck carrier he can stop and start and switch change paces with him and

basically mirror everything they're doing right and that's a really important quality with how the modern game offense is played where players are like trying to change paces speed differential all that and he's basically able to go step for step with them in that regard as well so it's cool to see him use a lot of the qualities that we attribute to why he's good offensively to actually sort of do the inverse defensively as well, right? Let's talk about the offensive game. And I think in these first six, his command of the game, I think our pal Thomas Drenz wrote that he has the game like it's on a string. It really feels that way, right? His ability to dictate the pace and it feels like when he's out there, everyone is almost playing on his terms, has been really,

really remarkable to watch. And as good as he's been statistically, and there's a number of different ways we could paint what he's done so far and how valuable he's been to the Canucks, almost watching the tape has been just as impressive in terms of just seeing all of these little things that he's doing to create those results. Yeah, I mean, first of all, he's able to essentially operate

as a one-man breakout machine. Yeah. I mean, that game in Florida was outrageous. That was like one of the better, I think that was like, I don't know, the best game. one of the best games I've seen from anyone this season, like around the league. He was, every time he was out there, he was like, he was just toying with people. It was like, just one flex after another.

It's seriously unbelievable. And the other thing that I find really impressive about him that maybe we don't talk enough about as it sort of pertains to his offensive game is we know he is such a dynamic puck rusher, but I almost feel like his outlet passing ability, especially a lot of times from the defensive zone, is, like, I don't want to say it's on par, but it's close. The way that he's able to just launch passes, and you'll especially notice it a lot of times, and you want to talk about why Vancouver's power play

has been so dominant in the early going. It's operating at, I think, 35% right now. So what I find really interesting is, I remember one of our pals, Eric Parnas, who back when he was writing, and writing about power plays. One of the most interesting findings that he had was that the best predictor for a power play's efficiency

is essentially a statisticie track for how often they can translate zone entries into getting set up in the offensive zone. And one thing you'll notice about Quinn is that so many teams they use a drop pass, right? And a lot of times for opposing penalty kills, it becomes super predictable that, okay, defenseman's going to skate it up, he's going to drop it back and that's where sometimes power plays went into issues with that with that being too easy to read and predict and that's where Quinn's sort of outlet passing ability

a lot of times he'll catch PK's off guard where if he feels like the PK is anticipating the dropback he'll just immediately send a quick up and it'll send a guy like Besser or Miller in for a rush chance or sometimes even they've been running set plays where it's a bank pass off the end boards and those are just some of the little subtle things that I almost feel like his passing ability not just the offensive zone but to transition the puck help the connect get set up drive possession I feel like that goes like isn't as flashy of an attribute compared to obviously the dangles and the spin moves but is such an underrated part of his offensive arsenal yeah there's so much of it I think one of my favorites is like when he just takes a four checker for a ride when he

he uses his net so well about as well as any defense in the league in today's game at like using it as as a way to get around shake a four checker and then essentially get back to where he started except the fordjacker is now kind of gas because he just had to chase him around the net and gives up and goes for a change and then he gets to have a clear outlet right like it's like seeing him do that is we'll never get old there's almost no point chasing him honestly since he's entered the league but people never learn like honestly you think a guy that possesses the puck that much. And there are obviously companies that, and they'll cite it on the broadcast at track, how much he individually possesses the puck in a game and he's usually

at the top. And yet, despite that, he, like, I can't remember many occasions at all where a four checker's able to catch him and just belt him, especially considering the size, like, you know when he entered the league, everybody's thinking, man, small offensive defensive want to take this guy for a ride, but no one's able to catch him. So it's pointless to try and almost chase him. You're better off just trying to stay above him and trying to angle him to the outside rather than, you know, like a lot of times

you'll see Forecheckers chasing him behind the net or whatnot. Yeah, I imagine it must be so tantalizing. The four checkers' eyes just get wide. They're like, oh, I'm going to crush him here. And then he's just laid the perfect trap for him. I mean, the cardinal rule generally for defenders is don't go chasing behind your own net when you're defending, right? Because you're going to get yourself out of position,

leave the front of your net wide open, and that's much more dangerous. In this case, maybe we should have been that to don't chase Quinn Hughes behind his own net because he will make you look foolish. You know, one thing that has been an evolution for him this year, because he's been doing a lot of this stuff for a couple years now, people just haven't necessarily been paying as much attention. But one actual distinct change has been how much more frequently he's shooting the puck

this season, right? And it's been talked about on the broadcasts, the numbers all bear it out where last year he had 11 shot attempts per 60 and 4.6 shots on goal per 60. This year, that's up to 8.4 shots on goal and 20.4 shot attempts. And I know that in speaking with his trainer, he meticulously went into the lab this offseason and was testing out every single possible toker have to try to figure out what suited him best

because he knew that this was another weapon he wanted to add to his arsenal, not necessarily to become a goal scorer, but to keep opposing defenders honest, right? Especially on the power play where I thought at times last year, even though they did have firepower and ways to beat you with that, you know, J.T. Miller coming downhill with the rister or with the L.I.S. Pedersen one timer on the off wing, it got very predictable sometimes in terms of like they were just trying to essentially force feed one or two plays and other teams started sitting on it and it became a bit of a problem.

And now it's much more difficult to do that if Quinn Hughes is actually going to be decisively taking the middle of the ice and forcing you to defend the shot because all of a sudden then you can't sit on the other stuff and that opens up all these other avenues for them. So just seeing him add that and actually it immediately paid evidence because we always hear like, oh, this player worked on this, this off season, or they're in the best shape of their life or all this stuff. And then you watch the games and you're like, I'm sure they did work at it. But it's, I guess it's one thing to do it in practice and another thing to actually do it in an NHL game. In this case, you could see like the transferable effect of what he worked on.

percent and it's funny because that's probably when you look at his offensive toolkit probably the only like when he entered the league the only asset that you looked at and went maybe a bit below average in terms of the shot it was it was pretty soft and it wasn't really a threat that penalty kills as you mentioned had to respect at all and for Quinn it's it's not just that he's worked meticulously on it and you're clearly seeing that okay it's got a bit more zip on it it's got more velocity. He's able to pick corners better. But on top of that, at 5-on-5 in those situations,

he is, like, when he's beating that first winger in the offensive zone, he's sort of coming down the wall, he's putting himself in positions where he's then, as soon as he beats that guy in a much better shooting location, in a more dangerous spot. So it's not just that he's relying on his shot, but he's doing things before the actual shot to be in more advantageous positions, get more looks on the inside, more in the slot.

And that's really interesting too because it was Rick Tockew mentioned in preseason that Quinn was sort of like meticulously working on set plays that he could use in the offensive zone and you're absolutely seeing it translate now where it just feels like he's toying with guys and now he legit, especially at 5-1-5, because in those situations he has more free reign to roam as opposed to the power play where he's just kind of madding the point. But especially at 5-1-5, he's a legit dual threat now, whereas I feel like in years past,

you'd watch him darning around and spinning, and you're like, okay, where's that final pass going? Is it going back door? Is it you're like waiting for that pass? But now he's making these moves, and you're like, you don't know what the end outcome is. It could be a cross-scene pass. to the back door, but it could also be him darting into the middle and trying to shoot top

corner. And that's, again, made him that much more unguardedable, especially five and five. Well, and you've also seen it, there's been a couple times so far where off a clean faceoff win, he like decisively retrieves the puck and then just steps into open space and as his first choice shoots it. And he hasn't scored yet doing that, but he's forced the goalie to make a dangerous save. He's put that in the back out of the defender's minds that that's actually an option for him. And I'm sure that's going to pay dividends as the year it goes along. He scored the one goal. I think, what, at least three or four others, they directly tipped as a result of him shooting and not necessarily shooting just for a tip, but shooting with

an actual game plan of trying to score and threaten the other team. And so, yeah, I mean, that darting around, as you mentioned, like the spin moves. I think he's right up there right now, if not the best at keeping the puck in the zone of the ball line, too, right? I mean, there was the one play where I hope people have seen the slowbo zoomed in replay in Florida in the game I mentioned where he like catches it out of midair but he doesn't knock it down he almost like he's forward spears the puck to get it to drop like as he's standing on the blue line with a with a penalty killer coming at him and then they wound up scoring later in that shift um he's so calm cool and collected on the blue line in those tight quarters and I don't know his ability to just

extend those plays keep the puck in the zone especially for a team like the Canucks where as much emphasis as they've put on adding defensive personnel and being more responsible in front of that, Tudemko under a Riggtocket, they still, like most teams, don't ideally want to be spending long stretches and long shifts in their own zone. And one way to do that is to just keep the other team pinned in their own zone.

And his ability to extend those offensive zone sequences by doing so has been an invaluable part of that process as well. It's so, I can only imagine, even the shifts where him on the ice is deep, pairing, they're maybe not scoring. The way that he's able to wheel it around in the offensive zone, like, that must be exhausting to defend. I mean, anybody who's played, I mean, pretty much it, you know, whether it's hockey, soccer, knows that when you're defending and you've got to check, you're just hoping that

the guy doesn't want to move, right? You're just like, just please don't move. Please don't do a lot. Don't make me have to have to track you. And that's where Quinn, even sort of off the puck, when, you know, let's say Heronic has it, a lot of times he might like make a move, pass it off and then switch to the other side. And even off the puck you're having to follow him, it's just I would hate, I would hate to be a winger having to defend him because he just sort of wears, wears you down. And it's the way he plays, it just, it creates confusing reads too because. with how unpredictably he's reading,

you're sort of as the man checking him going, do I follow him into this area? When do we exchange? And that's what sometimes causes those defensive breakdowns and confusion. All right, let's take a quick break here. And then when we come back, we'll pick the conversation back up.

We're listening to the Hockey Ocas streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. I'm glad you mentioned Phronick there because, listen, as much as we all love Luke Shen, I think it's fair to say that since Chris Tanev left, like Philopronic represents the first like legitimate not necessarily quality but like a guy who can sort of play without any real limitations right like I think the it's it's natural when you have an undersized skill defender like Quinn

to want to pair him with the opposite in a way right we see that where it's like oh we're going to pair him with a quote unquote defensive defenseman who's just going to be big and lumbering and can do some of the you know cycle busting stuff that maybe he can't, but then they're going to be severely limited. So all of a sudden you can't really play a five-man game in the offensive zone because that player is not actually suited to do so. And in this case, seeing him play with Hronick, I don't think it's a surprise or an accident that they've been as successful as they have been together. And that must be a nice luxury for him as well, where we've seen that interchange in the blue line where he can kind of hold

the puck patiently and wait for Hronik to get into this spot and then pass it and vice versa. And that's a quality that he hasn't really been able to enjoy for whatever, three or four years now. And I think they've improved in that capacity because the first few games I was watching Keronic and sometimes, not that he would be wasting offensive possessions, but he's such a, I don't want to say puck dominant, but he likes making plays in the offense as well as himself too. His bread and butter was offense and he's got a bomb of a shot. So what would happen is a lot of times he would just tee up, one-timer, long, low-prisoning. percentage shot and you'd be like

maybe a little like in some situations when you've got traffic yeah like let it go you've got you've got a good shot but in other situations just defer to Quinn there and play off of him let Quinn cook right and I think he's gotten better Heronik has

at that over the last couple of games especially in the Nashville one where it felt like they were working off of each other better and building more chemistry and I still think there's another level to unlock there between the just the chemistry they have between each other because the skill that both those guys have,

it does feel like there's more potential there for them to kind of do again in the most recent game what they sort of did against Nashville where it really felt like they were starting to come together as a deep pair. And obviously defensively, I think that's where Heroic in terms of his positioning a couple times where he's been able to make a big stop

when there has been on the rush, let's say a breakdown, especially in the first couple of games, when that deep pair was matched up against the McDavid line. It feels like he's made a positive impression that way. And it's going to be interesting to see how long can they afford to keep them together because the rest of the blue line, we've seen Myers has been a tire fire in the top four. And last game, I think he was demoted and wasn't playing as many minutes,

so he had Mark Friedman in a top four role. So it's like at what point do you sort of have to split those guys up and look at your other options? I'm going to be interested to see because otherwise, like, you love the strength of having Hughes and Roneck together, but for the sake of Vancouver's blue line, we'll see you might have to separate them just to balance the blue line out.

Yeah, no, certainly. So far, they're up six-nothing with the two of them on the ice together at 5-15. Now, in Hughes's 112-5-15 minutes, he's up 701 or the Canucksar. He's only been on the ice for one goal, again, so far in all situations in 150 or so minutes, which I liked him admitting. to our palisans in his article that he was readily aware of that stat and he was very proud of it and I guess that's like and listen this is a I guess it's a convenient time for us to be like presenting

the bull argument for Quinn Hughes because he's got a 15% on-eye shooting percentage a 9-83 on-a-sate percentage like things are certainly very glass half-full right now I just I think he's been creating so much of this though that I think it was I really wanted to get into this with you. But I guess the final point that I wanted to make here was it's cool to see all this come together for him because I know that like off the ice he is and we've alluded to this like such a student of the game. And he puts so much thought into all of this. And I firmly believe that if he wasn't remarkably good at hockey, he would be probably co-hosting a radio show with us or blogging or something. he's like that into the sport and aware of everything.

And so just seeing him like take these steps and add stuff to his game, none of it is by accident. And he's not certainly the only player in the league that works hard, but it's just kind of cool to be able to kind of trace this evolution of him as a player and the strides he's made this season. I also think it's such a competitive advantage for him to be training in Michigan and the crew that they have not just with his two brothers, but that Michigan crew, when you talk about sort of,

elite talent in their 20s. I mean, they trained with Dylan Larkin, Zach Wrenski, Cole Caulfield, Maddie Baneers, Adam Fentilly. Like, that's such a star-studded group. And to have so many young players, Zegris is among them too, that are at the age where they can take rapid improvements. Like, it's just the perfect competitive environment for them to essentially just push each other. And you can also see it in the way where,

Quinn has spoken a lot about and this is where having his dad have a player development background is I think in the edge room too is he's really bought into the idea of training with a specific purpose

in the office season and I think one thing when you talk to guys around the league especially as they mature and get older is they realize like summers aren't just for like general training purposes in the sense that you know, Luke Shen, I remember having a conversation with him

and what rescued his career, he told me, was realizing in part that in the summers, it's not just skating and training and working in the gym just to generally work on your all-around game. It's like you should pick like one or two specific areas that you think will yield you the maximum rewards and just have a tunnel vision on one or two skills. And that's where with Quinn and having that off-season group, I really feel like that's been an advantage.

You want to talk about why he improved so much defensively after that awful sort of sophomore year in his own end. I remember him telling me how meticulously he worked on his backwards skating to hone in on his rush defense, for example. And how helpful it was to be able to put that to test against his brothers. like that's that's an awesome testing ground to have and I think that's been a real weapon for why he's been able to take year over year steps and I don't think it's a coincidence that you're seeing like Jack Hughes level up and Dylan Larkin level up and Adam Fantilli having a great start and man he been years last year immediately being a top six centerman it I think that's a special group that they have in Michigan yeah all right harm let's take our break here and then when we come back

We'll finish up this conversation. We'll move on. We'll talk about a few other young players having promising starts to the season. But I'm glad we got to do that full Quinn Hughes deep dive. You're listening to the Hockey P.D.Ocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. I was just going to say, I've probably watched more Pottra lately than I have Lafranier. Okay. I have a few notes on Lafranier.

So I can curious for that. But we can do we can do some potra as well. All right. We're back here in the Hockey PEDOcast with Harmon Dial Harm. You've written recently on The Athletic about a few topics. I found interesting. One was kind of experiments we're seeing around the league and the early results they've yielded. And then two was sort of, I guess, under the radar rookies or performances that we've seen so far from first year players. I'll let you pick. Do you want to do the ladder

first? Do you want to talk about some rookie performances and then do the other one as well? Because I wanted to quickly touch on both before we get out here because I know we just spent the first, whatever, two-thirds of the show just exclusively talking about one player. So I wanted to cover a bit more ground here. So I'll give you the option. Yeah, I think with under the radar guys, it's been really cool. I mean, if you guys obviously sort of stand out

there, obviously you can point to some of the defensemen like Minchikov and Faber, but man, Boston, every year you look at them and it's like, this is the year they finally fall off, right? And look, I think considering the state of the blue line and their goaltending tandem and having enough

talent on the wings, you're like, okay, they'll probably still be a playoff team. But how blessed are they that we're talking about, oh, man, they're screwed at center with Bergeron and Kraty retiring? And then Potra as a 19-year-old second-round pick, who wasn't even really expected to make the team, comes out of nowhere with an outstanding training camp of preseason, and immediately looks like the real deal as a strong middle-sixth center. I mean, he's been so much fun to watch. Yeah, I'm Aaron Paul, just going on my knees, crying. they can't keep getting away about this.

Yeah, he doesn't turn 20 until March. Three goals to assist, four of those five points are at 5-15. With him on the ice at 5-15, the Bruins are up 5-1, and that's like with him and his most common linemate being Morgan Geeky. And he's drawn three penalties. He's taken none. They're using him in a big role, and he's coming through. It's very, for a 19-year-old, it's a very polished game as well, right?

Like, I don't think, I mean, I know, like, the goal he scored against the Blackhawks was sort of an awesome individual effort where he essentially wins a loose puck race, goes in alone, scores, has a celebration after. But for the most part, a lot of his net positive of plays would, like, even might be a bit too niche for me to put a mixtape together for, right? It would be like a lot of like, oh, see, he was standing in the right position here. Or, oh, he, like, made this one little bump pass. or he protected the puck here for an extra split second, which allowed this thing to open up. Like, it's all this, like, little stuff that's accumulating. But that's such a, that's such a Bruins thing to have as a feather in his cap, right?

And it's a testament to the fact that he's been this productive right out of the gate and, like, a legitimate rule. It's not like they're, like, easing him in here and being like, all right, well, just chip in where you can. Like, he's legitimately their second line center and crushing it in those minutes. I really like the word polish that you use there to describe his game because it's funny. You can look at that highlight and if you don't watch the Bruins on a consistent enough basis, you think that, okay, he's got some points, he's got some goals. You see that highlight real.

Okay, he's probably more of a dynamic, flashy guy. But it's like, okay, he was beating Cory Perry there, who's probably one of the slowest players in the league. And when you watch him on a shift-by-shift basis, I've actually found myself thinking, wow, he's able to impact the game so prominently despite not having a lot of flash and dynamic qualities because he's a good skater,

but he's not consistently beating guys in a straight line. To me, I think it's really impressive watching his hockey sense. You can see why he almost slipped under the radar in his draft year because it's easy to look at him and go, okay he's a bit undersized and he doesn't have you know flashy flashy skating so you can imagine a lot of teams going on small not the best skater but then you watch him play and already in an NHL level

the way that he's able to manipulate defenders with his combination of slick puck handling in tight quarters and how poised he is holding on to it but also just the patience that he has to almost wait for the perfect passing lane to develop and then when you combine that with okay he's not he's not electric in a straight line but he's so shifty and elusive um with his edge work whether it's making plays off the cycle or off the rush he's just able to to create offense and unexpected situations like there was one play against um the kings where i think jordan spence was on him and i'm watching him have the puck on the

perimeter right against the boards in a non-threatening position and then he starts doing a couple spins and turns and then at one point he just like holds onto the puck and he's waiting he's like intentionally seeming vulnerable so that the defender closes in on him and as soon as he does that he spins off the check pulls up and makes a pass in that high slot for van reamsdike for one-timer chance at the brunsonaly score on and i'm like man the way that like he's just able to use his brain to manipulate defenders this early in his career. Like his hockey sense is really impressive to watch. Yeah, I don't know what to do with the Bruins because I, like many others,

went into the year being like, all right, this has to finally be the year where there's a significant regression, obviously from however many points they had last year, but even beyond that, right? And then you watch them play, and I know on the one hand, it's been about as favorable a schedule as you can have, right? They get the two games against the Blackhawks, two games against the Ducks a little. They did just blow that one to a pretty feisty young Ducks team in Boston.

And then in San Jose and L.A., right? It's been pretty favorable and forgiving in that regard. On the other hand, you see a lot of the trademarks of what's made them successful in the past, which is like really strong defensive infrastructure, good goaltending, elite special teams at both ends. And then like top of the lineup finishing ability from Pasternak and Marsha. And all of that is still in place.

And the big concern was, well, with Bergeron and Creachy gone, you look at the depth chart down the middle. And I joke before the season for like the day before the year started, Daily Faceoff at Morgan Geeky as their third and fourth line center. And I was like they can't even muster together four guys who actually play the position. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, actually, you know, second line center is not really a concern for us. us and we're going to be fine. And so if this actually is going to carry over the rest of the way for Potra and what we've seen from in the early going, then obviously, like, maybe we really need to recalibre our expectations

for like how good they're going to be this season. Yeah. And the other sort of big surprise for me with the Bruins, I mean, look, I figured when you have Allmark and Swainman that you've got a really good goaltending tandem, one of the best in the NHL. But at the same time, I don't. not expect Allmark to continue to pick up from his sort of Vesna form and be that dominant. Like, he's not just playing well. He's unbelievable right now. And it's like, you'll see with

NHL goaltenders, I think I was looking it up before the season started because I was curious about sort of goaltenders regressing and that sort of thing. And I think outside of Vasilevsky, someone can correct me if I'm wrong but outside of Vasilevsky over the last five years I don't think there's been a back-to-back Vezina sort of nominee and so often you see like a guy like a Markstrom

have a Vesna year and then regress or like a Freddie Anderson Vesna nominee regress even to not even from like elite to being below average but even like Shasturkin going from like 935 from the best to very good yeah to very good right

and you expected at least some level drop off for Allmark, especially when you're thinking about, okay, with Bergeron gone, one of the best defensive centers, the defensive environment might be not as favorable, especially on the PK. And nope, he's continued rolling, and that's been, you know, a surprise because Almark, before last season, it's been solid goaltender, but definitely didn't fit the profile of this is a guy that can sustain elite performance. So that's been another advantage for them that I'm curious to see whether I can hold up again.

Well, you know those like when you see it on Twitter when people are like, oh, what's the take you have that will have people doing this to you? And it's like the cartoon. Oh, yeah. I was pointed at you, right? Mine is, Allmark's been amazing. I still in the back of my mind think Jeremy Swamen is their best goalie. I just, I love Swayman, rocks. And I know, like, statistically, that's not borne out.

I just, that's the take that I have and I'm sticking with it. And it's an awesome luxury for them to have both of them. And that explains a lot. Okay, before we get out of here, one final player I wanted to quickly touch on that you wrote in your experiments piece. It's been a while now. But Alexei Lafranier, so the reason why I thought this was interesting was, obviously it was a huge year for not only the Rangers with how much they have invested in this

current year, but also for him, right? Because this summary doesn't have a contract. he winds up taking this like two year whatever two point three to five million dollar bridge deal because essentially they don't have enough money so they that's how they can fit him in their books but also it's kind of like approve it because the results have been pretty underwhelming so far in his career and the one adjustment they make is they finally play him on his off wing with artemmy paneran and philip heedal and it gives them this second line which the early returns on are pretty awesome like they're creating a ton of offense.

It makes sense because, as you could see in his goal against Calgary last night, he is a smart enough player where he sees like this little soft spot in coverage. He gets lost in it and Pernarin is just such an elite passer that he finds him and then he benefits from it and scores on a wide open chance. And so if they're going to continue this and give them that second line to go along with what what Cryder and Zabinajad give them, then all of a sudden that's a really interesting wrinkle for this, for this ranger season as well.

Yeah, and it's a positive development because, man, in training camp preseason, he did not look... Yeah, the reports weren't amazing. Yeah, you just saw Rangers fans flaming him, and for the most part, even as he's sort of struggling, they were, you know, they've been sort of defending him with the idea that he hasn't had a legit top six opportunity, and that's really like, it's huge for him because now he doesn't have to be the guy on the line, playing with Panera, and he can be the complimentary piece.

And that's where we'll see if it comes as he sort of continues to move closer to his prime. But right now he doesn't quite have the foot speed to be the driver on the line. And right now it just feels like he has the comfortable role, the perfect role for him or he doesn't have to do too much. But he has that specific niche role where as you mentioned, part of it is getting open and finding ways to read off of Panarin who has been unbelievable so far. but part of it is also one area that I think he's excelled is winning battles, being effective on the forecheck, and making an impact to sort of help that line get the puck back. Because you know that Panarin is going to do his slaying with and carrying it, and he knows a great shooting threat, but they sort of could use that presence that can be strong along the walls

and help out in some of those dirtier areas. And that's where I think Lafranier, in addition to what he's done in offensive, and obviously, you know, since game one, the season opener against Buffalo was unbelievable. I was watching him and I'm like, I've never seen him this confident. But it's a lot of those little things where he's helping that line in subtle ways drive possession that I think has been really influential. And it's just the perfect fit right now for him. And it's exactly the type of opportunity that he wasn't really afforded under Gerard Gallant

because quietly for as much as Lafranier has struggled, you look at Lafranier's individual five and five goals rate and like since he's entered the league, he's been in pretty impressive territory. It's just that he, A, hasn't had a lot of power play time, which is essential for boosting a guy's counting stats. And B, he's sort of been stuck in a third line role. So he just hadn't had the opportunity to produce more. So so far it's been a good start.

Well, in one area he actually did have success with offensively early in his career was finishing around the net. in terms of like tap-ins and kind of that stuff. And it's, you just call up with that and be like, wow, the first overall pick is doing that. But that's like a legitimate skill. And one that's very transferable to playing with a guy like Artemi Panarin where it's like, all right, get open, make your stick available in front of the net and he'll get you the puck. And then you convert on that. Yeah, that's something all of a sudden we can build off of and gives them a whole new dynamic

as a team at 5-1-5. So I'm going to watch for there. All right, harm, I'm going to let you plug some stuff on the way out here, let the listeners know what you've been working on, where they can check you out, all that good stuff. Yeah, I've continued to do my thing at the athletic and just recently did a really fun piece of on the top sort of 10 under the radar rookies. Not so much looking at the Bedard, Kuli, Fentili, like top tier echelon of guys, but the Potra, Minchikov, Brock Faber types, where this rookie class is just so loaded that I thought it'd be fun to shine a spotlight on

some of the other studs that are emerging and really go through the video. I love sort of being able to share video with people because it gives you a sense of why guys have been so effective if you're not able to watch and just seeing a guy like Mintyukov make some like Jacobs-Slavon-esque defensive plays at 19. It was a lot of fun to put the piece together and I hope any athletic subscribers get a chance to read that. Well, that's awesome, man.

I enjoy them and speaking of video and kind of doing stuff like that. I'm going to put this out there now so that it's on the record and I hold myself to it. I'm going to post on my YouTube page on the search the Hockey Ptogadio cast. I'm going to post a Quinn Hughes mix of him not even setting up goals, not even doing a flashy stuff, just doing exactly what we talked about, which is inviting four checkers to follow him behind the neck and working his way around and making him look as silly until they eventually just give up and him just taking him for a little bit of a ride and a spin before they tire themselves out. So I'm going to put that out there and I know that there's

going to be at least a couple people that enjoy that and that's a type of content they're looking for so I'm going to do that. People are just going to be adding Dom. No, no, no. Leave Dom. Dom meant well. There's a lot of nuance. I know. I know. I love Dom. All right, Haram, this is a blast. This is the first of many times this season. They were going to have you on the show to talk about it. We did it a lot last year and it was always fun. So looking forward to that. That's going to be hit for another week of shows here on the PDOC. Thank you to everyone for listening. And we'll be back on Monday with plenty more of the Hockey podcast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio.

network.