The Hockey PDOcast - The Matchups That’ll Define the 2024 Stanley Cup Final

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Thomas Drance to work through the key matchups that'll define this year's Stanley Cup Final. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey-PedioCast. My name is Dimitri Filippovich, and joining me is my good buddy Thomas Trans. Tom, what's going on, fella? Not much, man. Just how to fall on a hike. I'm icing my ankle at the moment. Rolled it a little bit.

I'll be fine. I'll be fine. We'll play heard it. It's that time of year. You know, everyone's heard it this time of year, right? Certainly. Luckily, we've got some days off in between games here so you can rest up and be ready for game one. You're day to day right now, though.

I think people are checking your practice reports, seeing if you're on there, seeing what's going on. But I think it'll be okay. We're taking good care of you. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I'm always day-to-day, so this is no departure. So we're coming to you from Sunny Palm Springs here. We're recording early morning on Thursday.

The birds are chirping outside. Life is good. We're having fun here. We're going to keep the good times going. So last time you and I chatted, we did part one of our Stanley Cup final preview. We sort of catered it around. I think something that people who listen to the BDO guests have come to appreciate. It's like the random little details and kind of like part-time players or role players that could play an outsized role in this series.

So we kind of highlighted them as X factors. Today, we're going to get to like the meat of it. We're going to do all the good stuff. We're going to do the big head-to-head power-on-power matchups, everything you need to know to get you ready for Saturday's game. So let's just get into it. We've got 50 minutes here. Let's make the most of it. What's the first big matchup here that you've got your eyes on?

And I think it's a very obvious one. but as the guest here, you know, I'm giving you the floor to... Well, I think actually the marquee matchup is probably not the one that most people will be talking about, which I think is McDavid Barkoff 5 on 5. I think that's the obvious one you're alluding to. But given my hipster nature, I actually think the real marquee matchup is Oilers P.P.1, right? So we're talking McDavid, we're talking dry-siddle, we're talking Vouchard, we're talking Hyman, we're talking Ryan Nugent Hopkins.

as a five-man unit. Head to head against a first over-the-boards Panthers PKK unit that features Barkov and Reinhart, the two forwards who finished first and second in first place votes among Selke voters. With Gus Forsling and Aaron Eckblad, that matchup is as wild as it gets. It quite literally could pit the best offense or the best NHL power play we've ever seen, ever, like historically good power play against the best defensive center, the best defensive

forward, and two bona fide top pair guys, one of whom Gustav Forsling, I think, has cemented himself as one of the premier two-way players in this league over the course of the past couple months, although really he's been doing it for a little longer. I mean, what's better than that? Like that is, as a strength-on-strength matchup, these are the two best, in my view, in their various phase of the game. I'm sure Oilers fans will be messaging into the Discord being like, but our PK rates higher in the playoffs,

but it's like, okay, but think about their personnel. These are the two best in the league going head to head with nothing less than the Stanley Cup final or the Stanley Cup itself on the line. I can't wait. I cannot wait to watch what that matchup looks like. Especially on the heels of what we saw in the two respective conference. finals where on the west side, the Oilers really broke through in games five and six, scored four

power play goals between the two to put that series away, whereas in the east, a Rangers power play that I believe was top three this season as well in efficiency, got absolutely dismantled by the Panthers PK to the point where Ray Ferrar was talking on the broadcast about how sort of like discombobulated they were guys were in very uncharacteristic positions because they were just so desperate to try to give them different looks or get guys open. And that pressure up top, in particular, you were, you're making the note of how much respect the Rangers were giving to Sasha Barkov atop that umbrella and how they didn't even really want to test him or challenge him. And that was essentially throwing them completely out of their own rhythm, right?

I think the Oilers are going to be much more. I mean, I think they have more versatility with that top unit because McDavid moves around so much that he's going to be able to, if the first or second option isn't working, kind of get himself into better spaces. But I also think they're going to be more sort of determined, I guess, to just like stick with what they do and breakthrough as well as opposed to like having a couple games of not going their way and then panicking and trying to like you know do stuff at this point of the season that's very out of out of their norm the yeah the respect that the rangers started giving barcoves

harpoon right like barcoves one of the best with a stick yeah you know it's not an actual stick it's a weapon yeah it's not it's not a stick uh it's yeah some kind of harpoon or javelin yeah But the way that he knifes, pucks away from defenders up top, and then is, I mean, he eats seam passes for breakfast. I'm pretty sure. Like, he's not having Avo Coast and Boka. He's having, he's destroying any cross seam pass you attempt. The Oilers, as you mentioned, are a lot less stationary. And I think what I love the most, just as like a hockey appreciator about the Oilers power play is the way.

that their motion game, not the way that it drives McDavid, tow drag, Hayeskin, to his backhand, oh my God, I've never seen a goal like that before, plays, although that's cool. In fact, we want as much of that as we can get as hockey fans, but the way that their motion keeps everyone skating means it actually drives their retrieval game, right? Because they always have a step, especially once you get 40 seconds into a power play. And it's like, it's such an athletic achievement from this Oilers PP1 group because the way that they're always moving means that they always have a step on penalty killers. That edge seems to increase the longer the shift runs, right?

And then by the end of it, it's just like, the persistence just looks so withering. And that's because it is, but it's also actually like, like, and explicitly driven by their flexibility, by the way that they're constantly in motion. So it's not just about the way that it confuses their opponents. It's also about how that confusion and that stress that they're putting on penalty killers accumulates over the course of time. And then in combination with McDavid and Drysiddle's like superhuman, honestly superhuman stamina, just becomes murderous toward the end.

The Panthers have their hands full. This is a very different beast. Well, the best compliment I can give them is just what a disorienting experience it is to watch the Oilers PowerPlay because they can apply like 20 seconds of pressure and watching it live. You're like, oh man, these are like the full two minutes and then they've had like three or four chances. The goalie finally stops the puck and you look up and it's like 18 seconds have gone off the clock. You're like, oh my God, there's that much left on this. And then the second part of it is they're so, because of the unit they have, they keep those guys out for so long as well, right?

I think we've become accustomed to you go for about a minute or so, and then if the puck gets cleared, you're going to see PP2 come out and spell the top guys. And then you get a chance to sort of exhale a little bit as the PK unit and get your own guys out there. They're just going to go right back to the attack, and they're comfortable keeping those guys out for the full two minutes, right? So you get to a point where if they keep applying that pressure,

either your top PK guys are going to be tired because they've just been defending for a minute and a half, or you've got an inferior unit out there because they've changed and now they're attacking against them. And so it just puts you in a big bind. The answer, as always, is take as few penalties as you can. We talked about how the Panthers have been more disciplined compared to last post season, certainly, and it feels like that's been a point of emphasis for them. But loylers are going to get their opportunities. And at that point, you're kind of just hanging on.

And I think that's pretty – it's as simple as that, really. Yeah. it's going to be really interesting to see how much Barkov's just size and Predernatural positioning, you know, genius, and the length of his stick is able to just influence things. Like, how much is he actually going to be able to impact this given how much, how much the Oilers just spin you into the ground? Well, he was doing two things to the Rangers Pee-P that really kind of threw them for a loop, right? One was he was pressuring Adam Fox so high up that he was almost eliminating him from being one of the players involved. And so it felt like that just threw them out of the rhythm.

And then part two was he just lives in that middle of the ice and he's just hoping that you're going to try that cross-scene pass, right? That every power play essentially is striving towards. And he's just sitting on it and he'll intercept it. And what's interesting about the Oilers is they've had a lot of success this postseason with that same side approach where McDavid is going to skate over with the puck to dry-sidal and then they're going to isolate. late one Pker and kind of do a two-on-one two-man give-and-go game there. And so maybe that's a way to work around Barkov's presence because the passes you're trying to complete are just within closer proximity and they're not really having to work through his stick.

So maybe that can be a bit of a workaround for them. But yeah, I mean, when he's out there, like, it'll be interesting to see how much respect they sort of and reverence, I guess, they give towards him. You know those videos that you'll sometimes see on like Outdoor Life Network or like BBC Richard Attenborough narrated nature documentary where there's like, like, you know, like prey walking across a log being observed by a lizard and their tongue just like quickly darts out and captures the fly or whatever it is, the frog. That's what Barkov chilling in the lane for a seam pass kind of reminds me of.

And the calmness with which he does it, the fact that like you'll occasionally see a player make like a great diving chop. You know what I mean to like clear the blue line and fans go nuts when they see it as they should. their unbelievable plays. But it's like Barkoff's able to get there without breaking a sweat with possession. And honestly, the way that you know

what an attacking player is about to try isn't going to work. And then the calmness with which he breaks it up in combination with the speed of that stick. Like, I hesitate, I hesitate to say that it reminds me of Nick Lidsdstrom, but that's the like guy who it most reminds me of just remembering, you know,

watching like a forward try to send a pass and it was just like nope no chance it's just going to be calmly picked off by the guy who's bigger and smarter well lidsdstrom wasn't that much bigger but like who's just smarter in terms of their two-way IQ than everyone else on the sheet. I think maybe a failing for the rangers in that east final was that they never really and listen like that top power play and it had that kind of chemistry of playing together that I get it at this point of the season it wreaks of desperation to be like making these like dramatic changes and in that regard. But I would have loved to see Alexei Lafranier,

maybe more on that top power play unit, just because I think he was the one player that kind of had success on the man advantage, and it was purely, like, attacking off the rush and trying to, like, sort of skate at the penalty killers and attack them and then get them in compromising positions and go from there. And he had that rush where he, like, put it through Reinhardt's skates

and then rang it off the bar. He had a few more sort of silky stick handling plays, and you really can't, you get yourself into trouble if you defer in that way where you're, like, of, like, scared of attacking them, and then it kind of forces you out of your spots. The Oilers won't do that, and in particular, McDavid, I think he has, I mean, he's such a unique one-of-one player in that way, but, like, he's so primed to skate, I guess, right at the eye of the storm in that way, and I'm curious to see whether that's able to sort of open up a little

more cracks in the, in the Panthers PK. Yeah, I do think if there's going to be any hay made, direct hockey is kind of necessary, but that's what the Oilers are kind of the best at on the power play, right? For all that we think of the McDavid moments that bring you out of your seat, like what kind of makes their power play tick beyond the retrievals is the discipline with which they actually are willing to just like take the simple play at the net, just like occupy the hard area of the ice. You know, I do think they're pretty well suited to make that adjustment.

And just the last thing I'd add is I do think we've seen too how a adaptable that power play can be. I think you saw in the Vancouver series them start to take more perimeter shots, get more layered traffic in front of Artur's Seelovs, in part because I think they figured as that series went on that Seelov's down low with that big frame and that, you know, quality technique and that athleticism was a pretty tough goalie to beat. But if you were able to take his eyes and get accurate shots from the perimeter,

you know, his inexperience, handling screens at NHL speed and NHL size, you know, could make the difference and it worked. And then I think we saw in the Stars series, them adjust again and like attack more below the goal line in a way that's sort of more typical of them had great success doing both. Yeah.

No, I think that's going to be that sort of chess match is going to be so fun to watch. I guess let's get into the 5-1-5 component of this while we're already talking Barkob and McDavid and sort of a lot of these players are intertwined in that way. And I think that's what's really, going to define this series certainly, especially from a storytelling perspective. Barkoff so far this postseason, we've kind of been noting this along the way, but went head-to-head with Kuturov in round one, held him to two goals.

Round two against Pasternak, won that matchup 2-1, and then kept Zabinajat entirely off the scoreboard at 515 in round three. And obviously, this is just an entirely different challenge, right? And I'm very curious to see how, because I imagine we're going to see a steady dose of that line with Gus Forzing and Eckblatt against McDavid whenever Paul Maurice is able to do so. I'm curious to see whether those guys are able to execute a defensive game plan against them that's actually going to be able to provide legitimate roadblocks, right? I think we saw McDavid get frustrated at times and struggle a little bit offensively in round two.

And part of it was because J.T. Miller was very craftily, and I say this with praise. It's like this is what you should be doing, especially when you're going against that player. Like he's just so physically superior in so many ways that you almost have to try to like craftily cheat to just even the playing field as much as you can in your favor. It's the Legion of Boom thing. Like that was the Legion of Boom thing. Commit pass interference on every play and they can't call it all. Yeah. Like that there.

And by the way, no one would be like, well, the Legion of Boom shouldn't have been doing that. It's like, no, the Legion of Boom should be. What J.T. Miller did against McDavid was a template. And I think one that the Panthers would do well to note. And I bet you have. I bet you they have. and they certainly generally play that way. I will say maybe it's ironic that he's their captain

because the one player that I wouldn't describe that way is Alexander Barkoff, who is probably the most gentlemanly player in a very cool way, certainly, right? But he will, like, he's just legally going to try to remove you from the puck. And he takes great pride in that, certainly, and you can see that in the way he operates on the ice. I think you might need to go a bit above and beyond that in this matchup to sort of actually limit McDavid.

And so I'm curious to see whether he actually embraces that and kind of makes a bit of a heel turn or whether just he keeps being just like the most like noble player on the planet. Yeah. I mean, like there have been concerns about Barkov being like too nice despite being the perfect human. Like real concerns throughout his career, right? And I think this is almost the final exam. This is the test you're sitting. I still come back to the idea that I think Sam Bennett might be a better. option to match up with McDavid simply because I think if you want, you know, if you want

McDavid to be wearing a backpack, a red backpack all around the ice every time he steps on, if you want McDavid to be, you know, the boat pulling a water skier through the neutral zone just about every time he goes through it without the puck. I do think Sam Bennett's overall irascibility is maybe a better fit for that. But look, I mean, I do think. I do think, there's a opposite side of this when the Canucks had their most success against McDavid in that series especially like game one game five in particular a big part of it was the amount of time that they were able to spend when McDavid was on the ice forcing him to and it's not like the Canucks were generating great chances of this but they you know between

Besser and Miller they had a pair of guys who are you know 200 plus pounds and six foot two and they were able to just protect the puck down low and force McDavid to work and spend energy there. And, I mean, Barkov's perfectly suited to do that. Perfectly suited to do that. So it's sort of one of those, what matters to you more?

The game within a game aspect of sicking Bennett on McDavid and then having probably a more favorable size matchup in Drysidal versus Barkoff head to head. Or do you just trust that, Barcov, your best chance of actually playing McDavid to a draw is to make him try and take the puck from Sasha Barkov, which good luck, even to the best hockey playing human on the planet at that, so that at least you're not in your zone as frequently, even if McDavid has an easier chance getting there when he does finally get the puck. Yeah, and we saw that against the Rangers.

I mean, he was protecting the puck so well along the boards where he would just essentially just bully ball it. and Mika Zabinajad was like hanging on for dear life and unable to get it from him. He drew a number of penalties doing so. So that might certainly be the way to go. I guess the issue for me in sort of that matchup game is I actually think that Barkov gives you your best chance of sort of playing it to a draw because we've seen like proof of concept. Like you're just like it's very hard to envision a scenario where he just gets blown off the ice from a scoring perspective because all year now, whenever you're, on the ice just goals like are not happening and that's why he deservedly won the selky trophy so I think he gives you the best chance of doing so and then I actually do think

as we sort of pivot here slowly to another matchup I imagine we're just going to see a lot of that kachuk line against dry sidel and i actually do think matthew kachuk and bennett and evan rodriguez now playing with them gives you a good chance of scoring more 5-1-5 in that matchup from a panther's perspective whereas the inverse i feel like bennett would be more likely to get blown out of the water by McDavid if everything kind of went south, whereas I'm not sure what Barkoff or Streisidal would look from like a 5-on-5 goal differential perspective. Yeah. And you do have to take care at the top of your lineup first.

I mean, I really do think that, and I think the Oilers have reminders of that. We're so used to saying stuff like depth wins in the playoffs and not to besmirch the contributions of Oilers' depth players. but I do think the Oilers have provided a reminder that if you can win consistently at the top of your lineup, an awful lot does trickle down downhill in terms of the impact of that. And so, yeah, I mean, one thing about Barkout, by the way, you were talking about him on the wall. And I do recommend to your listeners that they try and watch this closely. But there's, you remember how people used to say the thing about Patrice Bergeron is positionally he almost never ventures

from like outside the hash marks. Watch Barkov on the wall and you're going to see something subtle and similar, which is that he is literally never, not once in his life, ever on the wrong side of the puck. The discipline with which his body, even in just like subtle battle positions,

is always between the Panthers goal and his opponent, even as he's, you know, taking these odd angles and using his range to be super-discipline, and, you know, winning a 50-50 puck battle that was probably tilted against him, like 30, 70. His body never, never stops being between the puck and the Panthers net. It is such an insane level of discipline.

I struggle to, like, fathom it. There was such a funny penalty in that series where I believe it was Ryan Lindgren. They wound up being called for a holding penalty, kind of in that situation along the boards. Right. And it must have been depressing for him because I think at no point, in that sequence, did anyone believe that regardless of how much he, how many infractions he committed, he was ever going to get the puck from Barkaw? And, like, at one point, he was just sort of, like, leaning along on the boards and, like, holding him. And he had his stick in his waist,

essentially. And Barco was like, I'll just wait you out here. Like, I'm not in a rush. We can, we can do this dance. And then eventually the reps were like, all right, we need to call something. Like, this has been going on for too long. And then he still had the puck after that. I used to think in my head when watching Barkov that this was like, if someone had put Datsuk's hands in David Bacchus's body or something. I don't think that's quite what it is. There's something quieter about the way that Barkov goes about getting it all done than there ever was for Datsuk or Bacchus, who were, you know, two of the best

defensive centers of their time. And in Datsuk's case, probably in anybody's time, right? There's something quiet or something calmer about how Barkov accomplishes this level of two-way dominance. It's just so fun to watch. Do you have any good Barkoff stories? Always. From when you guys cross paths?

Yeah, it's just the nicest guy. I mean, I don't know. I was joking with you that if the Panthers win this series and he gets the cons might, he's going to be like, he's going to lift it up and he's going to like celebrate and then he's going to like give it to like some sick kid or something. And be like, you know what? Like you deserve this more. And then he'll just go on with his day and try to win another one.

Oh, you know what? I do have one. Barkov's also like so dialed in terms of the word. work ethic. All these stars are. Yeah, of course. You don't get to that level without being. But Barkov, like, Preder naturally, so works himself to exhaustion, like workouts.

I think seeing Yager for a year, kind of, or two years on his line toward the end of his career really cemented for him the way that he had to and wanted to work. And that's carried over. And when I was working with him in Florida, the thing about Barkov was he always skates. Like, he always skates. So game day he skates, you know, optional practices are not optional for Sasha. And, like, he's just going to take them. So when I was there, Bob Boogner started designing what he would call mandatory off ice,

which is literally just not a morning skate. But it was like, no one could. Yeah. No one could because if you gave Barkov a sliver of room. Yeah, he ruined it for everyone. Yeah, he'd step on the ice. So it was literally like they became these reverse optionals, right? it was like, no, it's mandatory that no one skates,

because I cannot give Barkov any quarter on this. I love that. Or he will expend energy in the morning. He's just so competitive that I've never heard of the word mandatory off ice ever again. I probably never will, but it was literally necessitated by Barkov's just insane work. Well, he rules so hard and he deserves all the success. What I love about this is by definition there's only one puck out there. And so if we are getting a lot of Barkaw versus McDavid,

it's like something has to give, right? Because like on the one hand, they guess they could just play each other to a draw. But both guys are entering this series this postseason with like 5-1-5 shares in the 60s across the boards from shots, high-dangered chance, the expected goals, goals certainly. And so you get into the spot where it's like,

how does that, if those two just forces, just run head first into each other, does one of them somehow still keep that up and the other one winds up losing out in that? Or do they just like essentially, split the difference and wind up evening it out. I think that's going to be very fascinating to see. Yeah, and I think it's going to be closer to splitting the difference than one guy dominating.

But, man, you know, just watching it happen because it'll probably be splitting the difference with both teams having an opportunity here or there to influence outcomes. And it's like who wins in the four or five moments that actually decide this series, that's going to determine it. Well, I think an interesting wrinkle to this is beyond the forward. and they're going to get a lot of the attention, is the defense partners that are out there with them pretty routinely. We're going to get into that when we come back from break.

Let's take our break here. And then we come back. We'll jump right back in and I keep chatting with Tom about all this stuff. You're listening to the Hockey P.D.O.cast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. All right, we're back here in the Hockey Peelecast with Thomas Jans. We are doing our Stanley Cup final preview here. Before we went to break, we were talking about Barkover's McDavid. And I sort of teased how I'm interested in the defensemen that will mostly be on the ice with them, right?

And so on the one hand, from the Panthers side, you're going to see a healthy dose of Forsling and Ekblad. And I'm very curious to see how Forsling versus McDavid goes as well, right? Because so far this postseason, Forzling has had so much success with his mobility and his ability to essentially just be everywhere at all times, using that range, using that stick to sort of defend one-on-one against McDavid's speed. Part of that gets neutralized. and so I'm curious to see whether he's able to attack him directly as well and how that works. And maybe the answer to all of this is you essentially go with the two-man defensive approach where you've got Barkoff back checking from one side and Forzling from the front and you try to sort of clamp him down and corral him that way as opposed to just leaving anyone,

either of these guys on an island one-on-one, because they probably will lose that from a speed perspective. I think you have to do that, especially through the neutral zone, because there's no way, there's just no way to skate with him. No one can do it. It is what it is, especially because it's not just the speed he's moving at. It's what he can do at that speed. And like the subtleties of how he attacks you while you're also fearing for your life as, oh, just one of the top 50 skaters on the planet anyway.

It's unbelievable stuff, right? And so, you know, there's a lot to unpack here, but I do think the, like, static dynamism part of this is essential too, which is that there's a defensive deterrent that McDavid brings with that rush speed, with his ability to attack against the grain, that also impacts how defenders, how forwards, think about creating chances, right?

You're worried about missing a shot, you know, a far side low, for example, because it's going to roll up the boards. and if it gets outside the blue, guess who's probably beating your defenseman to a race? Give a way that allows the Oilers to jailbreak off the rush is worst case scenario. And that's a concern, something you're dealing with in the offensive zone, which I think is why, again, like, as much as they'll have to corral or build, you know, effectively a two-sided wall, try and keep McDavid locked into a glass box of emotion. as much as humanly possible. I still think the key here is to find the right setting on the dial.

It's not Max, it's not Min, it's probably not medium. It's somewhere cranked a little bit more toward Max, but just finding that right setting on the dial where the Panthers are attacking enough to generate that zone time that they're going to need to actually limit McDavid, you know, and realistically limit McDavid, quote-unquote, if he has five games where he doesn't personally break your back,

it's like that's amazing. If he has just two dominant games and one great game, you're coming out of that series totally happy. But I think the key to achieving that, honestly, is you've got to find a way to not get out shot by 2530 in the 100 plus five-on-five minutes that McDavid's going to spend against you five-on-five in the series. Well, I think a common feat we keep coming back to,

the postseason is sort of, it's this game of chicken between two teams in terms of whose best game or whatever they're doing is able to force the opposition into changing fundamentally their tactics and sort of their approach to this stuff. And that's sort of what you're referring to with the threat of that rush speed and then that potentially making you less aggressive around the offensive zone blue line. And that ties in perfectly here because I think part of why Forsling has been so successful and like I'm going to put a big Eastern Conference final mixtape on YouTube, there was one from the first round. He picks you up so early. Most defenders in today's game are so afraid of that speed coming at them that they'll sag back and give you that space to

skate and then kind of try to preserve around their own net. Forsling's going to pick him up, like at the offensive zone blue line and try to sort of knock the puck away or at least disrupt his rush a little bit. And if he gets burned a couple times by that, maybe he changes the way he plays and then all of a sudden it becomes a different dynamic. But that'll certainly be interesting to watch. I just can't wait to see that head to head. I thought our pal Jack Hahn had a really interesting note in his preview on his substack about how the Panthers in their own zone, because of their coverage scheme, like the strong side defender generally chases up to the point, which is different than a lot of teams now where you're like preaching, like staying around

your own net essentially, right? And I think we see like a guy like Forsling chases whoever has the puck and is able to knock the puck away and get it out of the zone or potentially create a rush opportunity for Florida. He's going to be trying to do that. The issue is that McDavid can really embrace this Cadmouse game of trying to draw him away from the net and then being the one player on the planet maybe other than maybe McKinnon who can then pivot and cut back and beat him back to the net after he just dragged him away from it. And whether I think Forzing's like able to resist potentially falling into that trap or if he just has the support behind him from Barkoff or Reinhard or wherever else to kind of cover that space, that's going to be something to why. And

watch. I think we're going to see that sort of isolated one-on-one out to head. And listen, like, as much as I love Forsling, I also love Murrow Hayskinnan, and he got burned a number of times by McDavid in similar circumstances. So it's going to happen regardless. I think, do you agree with this that the best offense is always going to beat the best defense just because if you're a guy like McDavid, you're just, if he executes, you can like do the best things positionally to try to bother him, but he will get to his spot regardless. He's too physically powerful and too, too, skillful and nuanced at manipulating everything that you're damned if you do,

damned if you don't. You know what I mean? Like, if you overcommit to do this thing, he's going to do the other thing and people, and you're going to look silly. If you play it conservatively, people will say he had too much time and space. You know, like you're, frankly, you're screwed before you've even stepped into the matchup. And so you're just trying to limit how often and how loud.

those moments are. I think Forzling can have success there. And I do think there's some elements too where, you know, this part, like if you're forcing, because it's not always going to be McDavid on that curl effectively, right? Like if you're forcing an Oilers forward who's not McDavid or Dry Sidel up high, and then it's like, can they form a quick interchange with CC or Nurse, or Brett Kulak playing his offside, or Philip Broberg? who's never been in this situation,

are there opportunities for the Panthers to get going off the rush? And this to me comes back to, you said, will this team's best thing be, you know, which team's best thing is better than the best thing the other team does? And I'm pretty confident that the best thing that either team does in this series is the Panthers pressure.

Like I think the Panthers pressure is just from a team in systems level, like the most imposing aspect of this series, even more so than Edmonton's like domineering skill. I just think the Panthers' ability to play with incredible pace and put pressure on puck carriers and exposed decision making and physical limitations just as a result of how overwhelming it can be for their opponents. Like I do think that that's the best thing either team does. And I think you're going to see it manifest both in the defensive zone, but like obviously

on the forecheck, which we've talked about at a time, like, you know, for the Panthers, It's not a, like, there's not a trigger point that they do on one part of the ice. It's like a lifestyle. It's a way of life. And I think the Oilers' ability to answer that is ultimately going to, like, how much can they solve the problem of just the pressure game that the Panthers are able to bring everywhere? I just can't stress enough how outlandishly good, Forzing has been this postseason. I think, like, I'm glad that, like, on the ESPN broadcast, I feel like Ray Ferraro has been, to his credit, like, properly. acknowledging it at all times,

but just the fact that, like, how frustrating it must be for a player, a skill player to turn around and be like, all right, I got a second here to make a play, and he's just always there. Like, he is such, like, his stick and his range of that, but his skating ability as well, he covers so much ground.

It worked really well so far because he got to, while they're just otherworldly skill players in Kuturov, Pasternak, and even Panarin, they're more stationary in terms of their approach from that, right? like Kuturov in the first round is like hanging around the wall and he wants the puck to rim to him and then he'll make a play off of it. Pasternak's moving more but like he's not beating you directly one-on-one with speed.

Same with Panarin, more like shiftiness and kind of trickery. McDavid is just going to go head on against him, right? And I think that's like an entirely different sort of matchup, right? Because it's a skill player certainly, but he's just trying to beat you in a way different way. So how he sort of recal-I think there's probably going to be like a bit of a recalibration period at the start of the series because you just haven't faced anything like this yet. But yeah, I'm so excited to watch that.

That's not a theme, though, right? Like, you think in general, do you think in general that the more direct the Oilers play, the more successful they'll be unlocking what the Panthers do? Yeah, and I think it applies to the breakout as well. Like, I kept saying this in the Rangers series. I wish their defensemen would just more directly try to skate the puck out. You might occasionally turn it over and it leads to a chance or a goal against, but at least it gives you like a path forward for breaking out of the zone and then creating off the rush.

Instead they just kept deferring to just kind of like pushing the puck up the wall, turning it over and just doing it all over again. And that's going to be the same thing here. And that applies in all areas of the ice for the oilers. Like I think if you fall into the trap of hearing the footsteps and kind of being overly cautious about it, that's almost going to create even further problems for you. You might wind up running into trouble by going directly at it. but I think it gives you a chance of coming out on the other side, whereas the alternative, I think we know what it looks like.

And it's just, you know, shot attempts being like 75 to 28, halfway through the third period, and you're just spending the entire game in your own zone, and the Oilers cannot play that way. Like, the issues they bump into defensively is when they have to spend extended time in their own zone, and all of a sudden there's breakdowns and coverage. They need to be the aggressors attacking in the offensive zone,

and the Panthers, I'm sure, are cognizant of that, and we'll do everything in their power to prevent it from happening. with, I'm curious to get your take on Leon Drysidal. Did you just go into host mode there? It's not like a, a gear switch and you're like. Well, I just, I was just thinking,

I was like, we've gotten 40 or 35 minutes into this podcast without like really spending time on dry cycle. And I feel like we got to amend that. We talk about it on the power play a little bit, certainly, but yeah, we did.

Directly like carrying the burden. Yeah. Well, and just, you know, at five on five, I mean, I think his lines been only good in this playoffs, right?

Like McDavid's been driving the edge. He's had the sharp end of the stick of the Oilers attack, and people will say, yeah, well, he's Connor McDavid. Nice observation dummy. But, you know, we've seen other playoffs where it was Drysidal, right? Like we've seen other runs where Drysidal is scoring at margin, or Drysiddle's line is scoring at margin against their opponents. and that, I mean, I think it's 18 goals for, 15 goals against.

It's off the top of my head. But, you know, not a huge differential being racked up with dry sideline on the ice. Is this a tough matchup for him, given the Oilers pressure game? Or sorry, given the Panthers pressure game. Yeah. The note on the goal differential there is like with all these Oilers-Wis, we just have to note that like McDavid is just playing with Bouchard. Yes. Like 80% of the time.

Right. And then when Bouchard does it. play with McDavid in those rare instances, it's with dry Cytle, and they look really good in those minutes. Yeah. But the issue for Dry Cytle is in like the other, whatever, 60% of his 5-15 minutes, it's with like darned Ler's. For sure.

And so I think that's partly why the goals against are as bad. I don't think it's anything he's done. Oh, I'm not worried about the goals against. It's just the, the overall, because overall he's been positive. Yes. There's, it's like with Dry Cytle not playing with this nuke combination of Bouchard at home, McDavid, and whatever wingers

are there at the time, although of late, Ryan Nugent Hopkins and Hyman, right? Like, when the Oilers attack with that five-man unit, that's now, for me, like, the top end and their biggest advantage going into the series, right? If we're talking about the thing that the Oilers do well and might be better than the thing the Panthers do best,

it's like, that five-man unit is the answer. At the top of the lineup, the Oilers have, you know, a 117 mile per hour fastball, unlike anything we've ever seen. But, it's like dry sidle's not part of that now dry sidle's part of the hold up the of the atlas act of like holding up just enough so that what that five man unit does sort of counts i'm not trying to diminish dry siddle's importance to this team but no no no no i wasn't i wasn't suggesting that at all uh no i know i just want to like we're both the biggest leon guys yeah he's the world um i wonder if the proximity to the stanley cup impacts the calculus of like how willing they are to embrace putting Leon on that top line and going nuke more often as opposed to playing the long game of like trying to spread it out

and only using them after penalty kills and stuff like that like I wonder if the fact that they're like all right we have a maximum of seven games left here in the season and if we win four of them we have the Stanley Cup and nothing else matters if you're just willing to like fully not that they've had the training wheels on or any restraints by any means but like I do think think there's probably a further, especially since by all accounts, I think both guys are pretty healthy and they've had a week off now between series as well. I think everyone's entering the series in as about as good a shape as you can hope for this time of year. I wonder if they're just going to go like, because we've seen them at times, it's been a while now, but we've

seen like, Leon, you're just playing 28 minutes tonight and Connor as well. And they did it in the Kuck series when they had to at times, right? And it's not sustainable in the long haul, but the long haul isn't really in question here anymore. Yeah. And I mean, people will say though, like, they wore down in that series or whatever, but I mean, they're such freaks, frankly, athletically that I do think, like, if you were ever going to have like a McDavid 27-minute game and it doesn't get to overtime, this is the time. I do think, like, with Dreis Idol, with having that speed on his wings now, whether it's McLeod or Holloway or Fogel, if he draws back in, I do like that much more in this series.

Like, I don't think they can get away with him lugging around Perry and Kane and kind of relying on that because then I think the pace that the panthers force you into I think is going to like take those guys into the deep end and give them a lot of trouble I don't think you can get away with that have you seen the oilers have been practicing this week with fogle back up with dry sidel yeah but i believe it's because kane hasn't been practicing and he probably will play and that i think fullo's been more of a placeholder there unfortunately but i think we also did see here in oblox say like whether it's game one or game four or whatever his quote was like at some point fogle will play a role in the series and I'm sure he will because

though sooner or later they'll like realize we just need guys who can move. Yeah. Well, and the other thing that's been interesting about it is they've had McLeod and Henrique on different lines. I know that's supposed to be a top end preview, but I'm just curious.

I am. I want to know your take on. Don't worry. We'll talk Kevin Stenland after this as well. I mean, you know, you know my feelings about Kevin Stenland. Can you vouch for how upset I was at the time? of the Seattle expansion draft when they took Gavin Beiruthor instead of Kevin Stedland. I don't think I like really publicly talked about it because I'm like, I don't know,

this just isn't worth like this battle isn't worth fighting. But like meanwhile, you and I were like going to the dog park with their dogs and I was like, why did they do that? Kevin Stenland's good. I had no idea. He's, uh, anyway, good for him, man. He's going to get, he's going to smell like the vault in, in three weeks regardless, but, um, might smell like the vault and have a Stanley Cup ring, which would be a pretty

nice season for a guy who's taken a while to carve out a niche in the league. So if the Oilers do attack the Panthers, because we've talked a little bit about the depth matchup, and I don't want to get away from the top end too much, but I just, I need to know, and we haven't talked about this yet, if the Oilers do approach this where, like, they're trying to fatten their bottom six, not even have a top nine, but kind of have two third, quote, unquote, lines, does that play into the Panthers' hands, given what we saw from Florida's fourth line? Or is that Edmonton going after? Is Edmonton chasing the Adam Henrique can be our Barclay-Gadro glow-up with that move? Yeah, I mean, I think they probably could get away

within a series because as we talked about, a lot of pressure is going to be on Lundell Lusiridon to create offensively. And if they don't, like, I don't. I don't think while this is a top, a bottom six that can control territorially and sort of play the way the Panthers like to to sort of just like keep the line moving, it's also not one that's going to strike, you know, fear into you in terms of like, all right, we're like, we're going to get buried here from a goal perspective. Like, so I think they can get away with it from that. Let's not move away too far from this because I want to talk more about Dreysaddle and

Kachka in particular because I think we're going to see that sort of head to head between those two if the top lines go against each other. Man, Kachuk against the Rangers, just dominate. territorially. Like his shot attempt at times were like 70% range or so. And so I'm very curious to see whether that can keep up in this series, whether they can create more goals off of it, whether he's able to get the puck behind the net and sort of work there.

One of our listeners made a really good note about how, in response to our X Factor show, about how the Oilers struggle at times when you switch sides in the offensive zone, work the puck behind the net, and then force their defenders to move around, because all of a sudden their situational awareness kind of exposes that. So I think that line kind of actually gives forward the best chance of creating sustainable offense here, even with Carter-Ber-Haggy knot on it, like if it is Kachuk with Bennett and Rodriguez.

So, yeah, I think they're going to have opportunities here to create, and it's going to be a really interesting thing to see, especially against Dreis-Eidel defensively. Yeah, yeah, that if it's Kachuk-Line versus Dry-Sidal, that's just going to be a ton of fun to watch, especially given the history between those two players, the battle of Alberta of it all will be very easy for Calgary writers to localize

those stories. Well, not only redemption for Kuchuk in that angle, but also he was so hurt at the end of last year's Stanley Cup final as well and wasn't really able to contribute and obviously didn't mind of playing at the end. So I think like assume, like I said, health for everyone, like it seems like he's in much better shape this time and has

a chance to like actually see this thing through. So yeah. Okay. Any other notes here? Because I think we've kind of like we started off with really just one topic, but we actually did a really good job here, I think of organically kind of covering a lot of ground. Any other notes on any of this stuff that you think is interesting? I don't think so.

I mean, we could get into like Eckblad, Ryan Nugent Hopkins, and some of those guys. Well, I think, okay, let's do Hyman. Okay. Because we haven't really spoken about him yet in this. Did you see? So his cons of my thoughts are like plus 3,300. Okay, plus 3,300.

Yeah. and he's four goals away from setting the record for most playoff goals ever. Yep, he's about 14 so far. I mean, he goes nuke in two big games here. I know that hockey voters are smart enough to give responsibility primarily to McDavid, and I think that's right. Well, we just saw Jonathan Marshalls that win the cons might. Right.

And I think anyone that watched that playoff run in particular was like, all right, the goals are obviously huge, but they don't happen if, Eichol's not creating, if William McCrelson isn't winning his 5-1-5 minutes, if Mark Stone's not the best player in the Stanley Cup final isolated. On my list, I had him like fourth, and it wasn't a take away from his performance because he scored a bunch of huge goals along the way. And we talk about like having shots and chances is good, but if you're not actually converting on him, you're going to be going home. And so that matters. But I think that's the argument here, where there might be better players who are fundamentally more important. But if Hyman scores five or six goals in this series sets the record for postseason.

and also winds up like what does he have like 68 or so like regular season and playoff goals combined now like he's going to get into the 70s as well which is just no one really talks about like combined goal stats for a season but I do think unbelievable the totality of the work here is like is immense it's immense and so he's also going to get a lot of like he's going to live around the net right and the panthers don't really spend much time defending down low because they never have to and so if the oilers are able to impose their will in that way I think he's going to give Eckblatt a lot of trouble. He might draw a couple penalties on him there.

He's going to get a lot of rebound opportunities, and he's going to have to lift them against Babrovsky. But I think what he does on the back end of all of McDavid's creation there could really swing this series as well, not that that's groundbreaking, but like he has an opportunity to make an outsized impact from a goal scoring perspective. Yeah, I mean, the fact that he's on the, he has a very realistic path at this point,

given his deployment to being the highest scorer and a Stanley Cup playoff run ever is mind-blowing given the conversation that has existed around Zach Hyman for the last eight years, right? I mean, what a, what an arc. And I, you know, I'd add this, like Bobrovsky's chaos down low feels like there's something there that I think the Oilers can, especially if they're making life, Hyman in particular, is able to make life hard for Brovsky. It feels like there's going to be. ways or space for them to get him overcommitted, you know, or stressed out with some down low passing or, you know, traffic. And I'm really curious to see that interplay there, especially because

I don't see the Panthers as having the sort of size on the back end to really prevent him from getting a lot of what he wants. Well, I thought, I thought like, Kryder and Zibin and Jed would have a bit of success in the East Final heading into it because I was like, oh, Criter down low. I think he can get an offense in trouble, win some battles there. And then the Rangers was never able to to get the puck down there. Yeah. And so if the Oilers are actually able to break through those first couple roadblocks, then that comes into play.

But yeah, I mean, I love, like, it's probably a loser's bet and probably speaks to my mentality of, like, always looking for value with this stuff, whether it's a fantasy football draft or whether it's the cons might market. But I'm like, all right, I see your McDavid and Barkov, and I'll raise you Hyman at plus 3,300, and Foresling at plus 6,600. Give me those two tickets instead, and I'll have my way there.

Okay. Are we out of time here? Yes. Okay, plug some stuff. Canucks Talk on Sports at 650 or wherever you find your podcasts, the athletic coverage of the Canucks and other stuff available all the time. Check me out there. And I'll be here all week.

And even next week. We're going to be doing a lot more shows together. Get in the Discord. We're going to get Tom in there. We've got some listeners being like, you know what, why isn't Drans in here commenting? Because it's a blaze with comments on you on our vacation here in Palm Springs. I actually don't want to sound too much like a boomer, but I'm having trouble seeing posts in that channel.

So I'll just hand you my phone and get you to sort it out for me. All right, we'll get you responding to stuff in there. If you're not in there as a listener, please, the invite that gives in the show notes pop in. And that's all for today. We'll be back with plenty more. So until then, thank you for listening to the Hockey Ocast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.