The Hockey PDOcast - The Run the Lightning Are On, Colorado’s Fastball, and Ryan Leonard’s Offensive Upside

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Thomas Drance for this week's Sunday Special to talk about how well the the Lightning are playing right now and how they keep finding new contributors along the way, Colorado's fastball on Saturday vs. the Canadiens, Ryan Leonard's offensive upside, the impact Mark Stone's return has on the Golden Knights power play, and a bunch of other stuff that caught our eye while watching hockey this weekend. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey P.D.O.Cast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey-Pedocast. My name is Dmitra Filippovich, and joining me, as always, on a Sunday, my good buddy, Thomas Drance. Tom, what's going on, man? I'm doing well. It was the absolute apex sports-watching, weekend of the year, right? And that included an awesome slate of hockey games all day Friday. I've been glued to my television. Happy Thanksgiving to our American listeners. I hope you and your family has had a great start to the holiday season, as we did up here, feasting on, you know, mostly hockey as opposed to turkey and stuffing. It's going to be a fun Sunday special. We've got a list of topics of stuff that caught our eye watching hockey over the past week.

And I want to start with the Tampa Bay Lightning, who are certainly the hottest. team in the east right now, obviously what the abs in Wilder are doing out west also bears mentioned, but they've gone 15 and 3 in their last 18 games since a 1-4-and-2 start to the season. 7-0 in their last 7 games was a 30-to-10 goal differential, and they've been doing it the past handful of games without Bradent Point, Victor Headman, Ryan McDonough, Eric Chernak, that accounts for nearly 30 million in salary. And I wanted to shout out their blue line because I was watching them very closely this weekend. They had a back-to-back, started off on Friday in Detroit. Then they played at MSG on

Saturday. And what they did to the Rangers in particular in that Saturday game was about as clinical a performance from start to finish as you're going to see from a team, just an absolute beatdown. At five-on-five, shots on goal were 30 to 10, high danger chances 16 to 4 during 5-on-5 played. The execution right from the opening jump was so immaculate for them. And the blue line they're using right now with this top pair of J.J. Moser playing with Darren Radish. We're going to speak a lot about those two guys. Our guy, Charles Edward Dashtu, I was saying I want to start calling him the aristocrat. You coined The Sent. Yeah. Which I love. He's good. For a 27-year-old who's taken just about the least probable path, every time I'm watching the Tampa Bay Lightning,

Dasstu jumps off the ice. Like, he just has a penchant for smart plays, keeping it simple, Pucks into space, you know, a little bit like Jake Muzzen hockey, but it's working for him. Well, he went from the ECHL, AHL, played in Finland, Sweden overseas, comes over here, makes his debut as a 27-year-old, some beautiful stretch passes every time I watch him play, just very involved in the offensive zone as well. A punching bag for us past couple years was Emil I Lille, Lillberg, and how he looked when he played, and all of a sudden he gets to play with Dust 2 and just completely looks rejuvenated.

JJ Moser, I don't know if this is a hot take in your opinion because he certainly doesn't have the track record or the, you know, counting stats to support a claim like this. But I feel like watching him play here, especially these past 10 games without Victor Hedman, he's probably been one of the 10 most valuable defensemen in the league in the first two months in my opinion because of the combination of his contributions, which we're going to talk about, but also how much this team needs him, right? We've spoken so much over the past couple years about the mobility of their blue line, how they can be exposed in transition, how that was going to be a limiting factor for them come to playoffs when they played some of the better, faster teams in the league to play with pace. And J.J. Moser comes in and stabilizes everything.

His 5-on-5 metrics are absolutely preposterous. You look at any chart for him so far this season, and it's just all blue bars everywhere. Off the chart. It's incredible. Yeah, it is incredible. And it matches what we're seeing, right? I mean, it matches the command that he's bringing on an every ship basis, how often he's playing, how heavily he's being leaned on in Tufts.

And frankly, the way that he's picking his teeth with those tough matchups, with that Rangers game being an especially, you know, dramatic example of it, I think. I mean, you know, he ends up spending a lot of time against Panarin, obviously, and that's in Tampa Bay's favor. but it was the minutes where he's on against, you know, Labba and company, like the fast Rangers line, the Rangers line that can skate where, you know, he, between him, just the way that he's able to actually add pace, I think, on the back end,

feels welcome and will be welcome too once the bodies get back on that lightning back end. In years past, we've talked about, you know, Tampa Bay is going to go as far as their ability to feel pressure and get the puck moving, especially against some of those stress hockey teams that they will inevitably face if they last long enough in the playoffs, Florida, Carolina being sort of, you know, the first two that come to mind. I mean, I think what you're seeing from this hold the fort stretch from whether it's Destu and the puck moving or Moser

and how he's actually able to handle pacey forward lines and dominate in those minutes. I mean, that's exactly what. Tampa Bay's needed, like it's exactly what the doctor ordered and with implications I think for when this lineup's healthy. Yeah, he's much like a slave and he's just a human eraser. Yeah. Like in the own zone coverage in front of the net, gaping up, as you said, in the offensive zone in that Rangers game, part of why they just had the puck on a string passing it around the entire time was every time it would come up the wall and the Rangers would think they'd have an easy out. He would just come crashing down, keep it in, and then make a nice play

with it. He leads the team even before these injuries. He was by far their most heavily used skater at 5-1-5, but the 10 games in particular here without Headman, up 11-01 at 5-1-5, they're controlling north of 60% of the expected goals and high-dangered chances with him on the ice. And doing so, playing with Darren Radish, I think, is very instructive because A, it allows him to play on his strong side as a lefty and not having to compensate for Victor Edmund and playing on his off-side. And then also, if you've watched Headman this year, on a lot of the sort of retrievals or situations where he needs to skate a little bit, to close space. He's had to really cover for him and he hasn't had to do that as much with

Radish. And so no surprise, the numbers look as good as they are. And I had some questions because I've been tweeting about all of these metrics for him and everything and people being like, can you wait until the Lightning sign him because he's a 26 year old RFA this summer. This is the exact type of statistical profile that winds up being underpaid, right? We've seen it with countless examples of this type of defenseman in the past because he's got one goal and seven points. That's not going to generate a massive price tag. Now throw in that the pitch is coming to him from one of the best organizations from a James Bond villain from a from a James Bond villain and in a no tax state I mean we've seen how this story ends

right repeatedly most notably with the Gustav Foresling contract I mean we know how this story ends and it's probably a very good thing for the lightning that it seems predictable so his partner Darren Radish 13 points in his last eight games he's quarterbacking at the top of the umbrella on that power play and watching them recently, and that was a power play that I'm characteristically struggled at the start of the year, I think it really helps them right now that he is a right shot, because when you work that set with Kuturob in his office at the wall, it opens up a more seamless one-time opportunity going up to the point with that. And in watching him play and thrive like this,

I was also thinking sort of this institutional excellence, the lightning I've had during this entire run, right? Where it seems like it's kind of a running joke for us, where it's like Dominic James, Declan Carlis, Gage Gonzalez, all these guys. as they come up and contribute, but how they use Syracuse and their HL system to develop players and why it matters so much for a team that's obviously got a bunch of big ticket players and is always up against the cap, but also because they're competing, has been at a draft capital deficit for years now, right? I think they've made a pick in the top two rounds of the draft three times total over the past five years and being able to find valuable contributors like

a radish making less than one million and develop them, especially watching that Rangers game and thinking about how one of the big fatal flaws for the Rangers during this entire time has been a lack of that in terms of the development, right? A lot of the guys they've drafted high or just committed to it all, not necessarily showing the strides earlier in their career, and the lightning, despite the fact that I think they're operating probably at a fraction of the budget a team like the Rangers is, time and time again churns these guys out and finds valuable contributors

and Radish feels like the most recent example of that. Yeah, the, I mean, it's incredible, and it isn't just that they're exceptional at player development, although that's a big part of it, you know, I do think when you consider how aggressively they find these guys early, right? I mean, whether it was like Surgishev to Moser is two perfect examples of it, right? Where, you know, the management on Drew Am making sure that he was in those prime offensive situations helps you, land the Surgishev that that team clearly needed in winning their back-to-back cups. And then being sort of early on Surgishev, right, in terms of he'd already been paid. He had that contractual stability. But, you know, in some ways, I still think they were proactive, I suppose, in trying to

sort of add depth as opposed to keeping the perfect fit player. And you've seen that sort of across a variety of different acquisitions throughout their sort of, I mean, this entire time. It is impressive. It's a really interesting mix too, right? Like, it's hard to, like, it's hard to sort of pinpoint a type that they have either, right? It feels like they're very, unlike with the Florida Panthers, for example, as a team that's done a really good job of this, where, you know, you go to from Ekman-Larsen to Schmidt to Petrie.

it's like we feel like that's a pretty clear type and whether it's been Ian Cole or Destu or Radish or Dahan or Ruta I mean they're sort of all over the map in a different way I think Well they've had a type up front Where it feels like they certainly The doggedness yeah

Motor competitiveness and have had a lot of success with that I've taken issue with their type on the blue line Which has generally been especially in the third pair kind of this like more traditional big stay-at-home physical defensemen. The Luke Shen and Zach Bogosian. I think that's gotten them in trouble in the past even though obviously with those stack teams they won Stanley Cups. But then now guys that can just move like a Moser, a radish, a das too.

I feel like it gives them a different element. The other note that I had on the lightning and watching that game against the Red Wings on Friday, it's like the first game on that busy Black Friday schedule. It's on here at 10 a.m. Pacific time. Off the opening draw, John Cooper like sends out his fourth line. win the draw and he does the face off and get off with them where gets them off sets up the matchups and it feels like no coach in the league right now you know maybe you could argue um a spencer carberry certainly or some of the stuff that stars do with their forwards up front but he's

so diligent and intentional about his forward usage in terms of trying to create mismatches throughout by sending guys out on the fly and i think part of that is the personnel he's blessed with right where when they get point back especially but even right now this combination and they're using a top line of Kuturov playing with Hagle and Sirelli. Nick Paul comes back. But then you've got Gensel, Bjorks down on the second line, and then you're going to see shifts where Gensel flies on and joins Kuturab and plays the top line. Then they put Hagle out there. They're just mixing and matching throughout. And I enjoy that element as well because it's so unpredictable and fluid in terms of who's going to be out there. And I feel like

it creates these kind of manufacturers opportunities for them, I guess, to catch the opposition off guard, usually with one of these guys coming on fresh and then being able to extend the play in the offensive zone, and they did that flawlessly against the Rangers. I was trying to come up. I was trying to remember the name because, you know, I do think a part of this is capitalization, right? So it's not that the Tampa Bay Lightning are making a higher volume of draft picks or what have you, but on defense or up front too, we see it with guys like Gonzalez. It just feels like they're getting the absolute most out of everyone that comes through that organization, which I think is a good way, a good barometer.

There's so much that happens behind the scenes in terms of running the sort of team that Tampa Bay has been across the last 15 years, if we're being honest. But the capitalization rate, and I was trying to remember this name, and I did, they had a defenseman who played five games for them a few years ago named Ben Thomas, who I remember playing games for the Vancouver Giants. And I remember seeing him make his NHL debut and then looking at sort of the American league counting stats and just being like they found a way to get NHL games out of this guy like seeing him as a teenager and look he only got a cup of coffee but still they were able to take a guy

who was like a third pair overager in the dub and turn him into a useful American leaguer who could give them games now just one example but I remember that being like spellbinding given sort of what I'd seen from him at 1920 that he'd got to that level at all but you know, you can imagine when you're working with sort of the higher end clay, right, how that ability levels up. It just feels like that's something that the Tampa Bay Lightning have been able to fall back and rely on. And, you know, now, I mean, we're looking at this defense corps and there's, I mean, Das do the third pair sort of minutes eater, right?

Like a guy who can help you generate offense against soft comp, which, you know, he'll profile to do exceptionally well once this lineup gets healthier. and Moser playing tough minutes in being a human eraser, except you've got headman's offense benefiting from that sort of dynamic as this sort of group gets back together and healthy again. I mean, this becomes a pretty scary team, especially with what Florida's been going through, right? And the fact that, you know, with Carolina anyway,

these two teams are in the Eastern Conference final, one team will have a pretty significant, you know, experience. We've actually done it. there's no mental blocks on us edge should it should you get to that point yeah i think part of what enables them to do that time and time again is having the established nucleus or building blocks and then a very set expectation of the way you're going to play and what's going to be required of you and then a lot of guys just fit into that and certainly they've benefited from additional opportunities here throughout but i'm just i mean the blue line is is great and a lot of awesome on harolded stories

but i watching the way their forwards play and just how aggressively they attack up the ice and close base and create opportunities with the puck, I think that's what's so impressive about this team right now. Does it concern you on the Rangers side, especially with the news that Adam Fox might miss some time here as a result of that he did get hurt in that game, right? Yeah, Brandon Hagle crunched them along the boards. Right. So how do you sort of, do you, the fact that they go out and out shoot the Rangers 30 to 9, 5 on 5, and it looked worse than that when you actually adjust for the quality of chances that the lightning were getting repeatedly.

I mean, Schisturkin was incredible, and that's the only reason that game only got lopsided, like, late, right? It was often 2-1, which also created this dynamic where it was close enough for the lightning to continue to pour it on. But, I mean, the Rangers had no ability to punch back. It was really quite a significant demolition. And now, if this Rangers team is without Adam Fox, who, I mean, probably held up best among their

players in that in that game and we know how important he's been to them what we've talked about their five-on-five improvement right they've played better hockey of late even though they sometimes still have some of that half-court look to them which always concerns me in terms of what they're generating versus giving up off the rush but i i feel like adam fox might be one of the most you know up there with the jets and hellebuck and um the ducks with those down which we should talk about um you know i i feel like fox is a glass jaw absence for them like a punch they it's a punch they can't take yeah he creates so much for them and i think it was in the previous game because they played a back-to-back this weekend as well he was all over it against the bruin's

and making so many plays happen and so it's going to be an insurmountable loss for them i mean in this game in particular against the lightning the two teams look like they were just playing different sports yeah with the pace the lighting we're playing at and how tenacious they were and so it's going to be it's going to be really tough for them um you got any other notes on lightning here, or do you want to move on to our next topic? All right, the Carly Avalanche. We're sticking with the theme of good teams that we enjoy watching, and I think that's a great platform for us here. A 7-2 win at home on Saturday against the Habs, a precocious Habs team that I thought in the first, like, whatever, 10 minutes or so, right up until the first

Aves goal, came out flying, looked game, I was sitting on my couch, I was like, this is going to be a really fun back-and-forth affair. They're going to give them a spirited fight coming off a nice win earlier in Vegas for the habs and then in the blink of an eye the abs just remind you why they're the best and i thought the first two goals they scored in particular really stood out in this regard because i thought the habs based on the looks they'd been getting and then even on those individual plays like they're very routine neutral zone plays where they're like set in their structure they've got guys back they're not being exposed off the counter it's like all right we're safe we're in a good spot everyone's where they need to be now they have their

third pair out there for both of those. But it's just a quick D to center pass from the Aves through the middle of the ice with a full head of steam and then all of a sudden everything just falls apart. The defense gets pushed back. It creates that pocket east-west entering the zone and its wheels up from there. And I just think the way the Aves can sort of accelerate in that regard where they just go zero to 100 and just reach their top speed and all of a sudden teeing off in transition is absolutely incredible. The McKin, and goal four on four was an awesome display of puck possession as well because the abs purposely almost allow the haves asleep they bring it out of the zone they pass it back up to center ice

near the boards and then all of a sudden send it back as the haves are kind of scrambling mckinon flies on the ice fresh weak side gets that rebound and so i mean the execution and in games like this in particular i know something you've been talking about on these shows is for these best teams now we're in the slog days of the regular season leading up to the holidays and then the Olympics as well before teams really kind of turn it on and take it seriously for a team that's 18 1 and 6 like the abs right now there's going to be nights where they realize depending on who they're playing we don't really need to bring our fastball here we can just play hard for seven to 10 minutes and that'll be enough for us and then there's games like this where they clearly respect the opponent want to put on a show make a statement and they've done that a handful of times this year and when we get when we're witnesses to that I think it's just so awesome to watch the pyrotechnics are ridiculous and and look if this team keeps chugging along like this and winning games in all these different ways and really the only way you can beat them is beyond regulation you know with with a stupendous goaltending performance which we also saw this weekend um you know

this team's going to enter a different conversation, right? This team's probably already on the like doorstep of that different conversation where we start to talk about them relative to teams in history as opposed to teams in the NHL currently, right? Like that's, they're tracking to sort of be that type of story. And, you know, they're doing it with a fair bit of discipline all around. I mean, I think the, like, part of the story for me here with Colorado, too, if you look at five-on-five time on ice, right?

You've got McKinnon-Nachis in the top 20, but McKinnon is outside the top 10, right? Pointedly outside the top 10. They only have one other guy in the top 100 in 5-on-5 ice time per game, and that's Arturi Lekan. And I feel like that's a big part of what, you know, the sort of edge that they're able to accumulate and dovetailing with the idea that there's like an avs test out there right now. And the fact that Montreal couldn't hang with the abs because they brought a haymaker against them isn't a sign that the haves haven't arrived yet. To me, anyway, it's more a sign that the avalanche thought the Canadians were worth putting in their place. and that's actually a compliment

because, you know, a couple weeks ago in Vancouver, we saw the Aves size up an opponent that absolutely did not pass the Avalanche test in Vancouver. They'll play again on Tuesday night, and I'll be watching a C2, like, you know, is this going to be Bednar mixing and matching and putting Gavin Brindley on the first line so that he has someone that he knows

is going to bring a consistent effort or, you know, or not? And so at this point, I think one of the most interesting things about the abs is how they seem to evaluate the rest of the league. That's sort of how high a level they've hit. Yeah, and, you know, Brock Nelson has a huge game here. He gets cooking. Landis Gog had an awesome weekend as well and very productive. And so that's just another couple chess pieces for them that had some relatively slow starts this season. And so right now, just such a well-old machine. I just love watching the way they, they can create offensively in so many different ways, whether it's in zone, compressing the zone as we talk about all the time,

some of these transition plays, but it almost feels like they're, they're like an elite offensive coordinator right now where they're just running through their play sheet and they're like, all right, let's beat the opposition with this one tonight. And then all of a sudden you get some of these performances like this. Well, and Kel McCar ranks 60th among defensemen, ice time per game. I mean, he still ends up among the league leaders in total ice time because he's playing, you know, power play and short-handed. But, I mean, you can see that this team is playing with a long view. And so I think it's what I enjoyed so much about that Montreal Canadiens game was it felt

like, you know, a sign of, a sign of how dominant this team can be when they turn up. And we're going to get to see a lot of it in the spring. And I can't wait. Yeah, on the habs side, obviously it was a disappointing result. I will say in watching them the past couple games, first off, our guy, Zach Balduke, who went through a bit of a dry spell, got his minutes taken down, dropped down the lineup, gets an opportunity on the top line and playing at Caulfield in Suzuki recently

and benefits from it, especially on PP1 and the element has shot as a weapon provides to that and then bumping down and seeing some reps of Slavkovsky playing with Demidov, I think, has been really interesting because one of the knocks, obviously the physical tools have been immense for Slavski and there's a reason why he was the first overall pick, but sometimes I've questioned how he sees the ice

or when he has to make a decision where some of the playmaking and whether his game is very rudimentary sometimes. in the Vegas game, one of the goals they scored here in Colorado, beautiful flourish. We're just seeing the ice, moving the puck beautifully, playing off of Damadovna. So I think that's really encouraging. And, yeah, that's kind of all the notes I had on that.

I thought it was, it's just always fun to watch the abs cook when they're playing at that level. And so. There's nothing better. No. There's nothing better. Oh, really quickly, the Minnesota victory, though, over the abs. So avs adjacent. Yep.

But the Wall of St. Paul T-shirts were an incredible touch from wild skaters. I absolutely loved that. And I thought that was a super fun game. But just a quick, like, knee-jerk takeaway from it. That Matt Boldie move and his success in the shootout, if you were to price out, Olympic players most likely to end up being the T.J. OSHA equivalent of the 2020, I guess, six Olympic games. I feel like Matt Boldy should be like minus 200. He should be the clubhouse leader to be that guy.

Because, of course, in Olympic play or IHF play, you only do three shooters, and then you can just rotate your best guy. I feel like that's going to be Matt Boldy for the States. Let's hope we don't get there. I know that was a great bit of hockey lore, but also... Well, let's just... I'm fine if we get there in the round robin. Right.

I don't want to see medals decided by it. But I'm happy. to see it. I'm happy to see round robin games decided by that. You know, you're talking about the fashion of the wall of St. Paul T-shirts, which I feel like we need to get our hands on. At some point, it was a big weekend, because we also saw the stars unveil their third uniforms, those black ones, and then the Blackhawks as well with theirs, and I thought both were just incredible on the ice. Yeah. And so, I agreed. Everything was looking good. All right. Let's take our break. And that Montreal Ave's matchup was like the top,

jersey matchup. I'm sure it infuriated some people, but it was the top jersey matchup I've seen all season. I couldn't take your eyes off it. All right, let's take our break here. And then when we come back, we will jump right back into the Sunday special. You're listening to the HockeyPedio cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. All right, we're back here on the HockeyPedio cast, joined by Tonus Trans for our Sunday special. Tom, let's keep it going. Um, I'm going. I'm going. I'm going to talk Ryan Leonard with you. Yeah.

Because I was watching a lot of the caps over the weekend with a pair of victories come from behind against the Leafs and then going on the road against the Islanders and winning on Sunday. And we spent so much time talking about this next-gen takeover, right? What we're seeing from Schaefer and Bedard and Celebrini and Leo Carlson. And Ryan Lerner doesn't have the point total to match those guys at this point. He's got five goals, 13 points, and 26 games. yet when I tune into these caps games

I come away increasingly impressed with not only what he's creating but I think the style with which he does it and I think it was a player that you and I were both incredibly high on coming out of college and jumping into the NHL last year and saw some flashes of it down the stretch but then heading into his first full NHL season here

and I had this vision based off of everything I had read and heard and seen from him that he'd be a certain type of player right kind of this high motor agitator who certainly had a great shot but was going to do contribute in various different ways and I feel like the more I watch him I feel the upside here offensively is so exceedingly high to me and part of it is just because of how he looks in doing it like I know this is going to be kind of sacrilegious to say because one's a center one's a winger one guy is much more established and successful but I see a lot of Jack Eichol in his game because

of that upright posture and kind of how he surveys, how he can just accelerate and get to his spot when he needs to the shot off the rush, but in particular the playmaking that I've seen kind of level up here recently where it's not only the zip on the passes, but sometimes he's as before he enters the zone, he'll almost just whip this cross-ice backhand bullet to kind of switch sides and allow a free entry for his teammate in that Leafs game.

So I'm do a couple of these diagonal passes, one ultimately resulting in a beautiful one-time goal for Jacob. of Chickren and seven of his eight assists so far a primary they're mixing him in on pp1 now which has been a big struggle for them and i like that look of getting him either on the wall going downhill or potentially in the middle of the ice got a great chance to and so against the islanders and so i'm really excited about this guy i've been super excited about the caps i feel like finally now that they're turning out the results that are in line with their underlying numbers we're moving in the right direction here but i feel like unlocking him a bit more offensively

and I think it's naturally going to come, just as he gets more comfortable at this level, is going to be a huge part in that. Yeah, and another great vibes video from the post game in Toronto. That goal, you're talking about the setup on the chickering thing, like, what I, what stood out most to me from his college tape from watching some of those games, was the way that it seemed like the game moved to a slightly different speed for him. like he was just a half second faster than everybody to loose pucks in traffic. And I don't know if it's his size or that he hasn't sort of been at the net front as frequently in the NHL. But I feel like instead of it translating that way, I feel like it leads to plays like that Chickren setup where his anticipation on that, not just to get open and receive the puck,

but like basically him and Chickren rotate space. is on the ice and he knows where he's going. Which is something the caps do as well as anyone in the league right now. That's why I've been so good at 5-1-5 offensively. For sure. But the moment he gets that, he knows it's going back to Chickren but, you know, does a little move, like makes it look like

he's not reading that the whole way, might go downhill, keeps the defender honest, that opens up the space for it. I'm pretty confident he had a pretty good idea of where that puck was likely to go before he receives the pass as he's changing places with Chikarin. So, you know, that

anticipation that stood out to me and I thought would lead to maybe him being more of a like a greasy goal almost almost in the Brendan Gallagher mold I think you're right is playing more in terms of his anticipation as a passer you know that sort of like crank player type who's just a big brain on the ice well and he's had I mean he's come so close frustratingly so off the rush as a shooter like that the release is absolutely nasty I think he's going to score a lot of goals but I've been very impressed by the playmaking and then you know the player I thought he was going to be we saw that in that Islander's game where he had this amusing interaction with Matthew Schaefer where they're like mixing it up in front of the net.

Schaefer loses a stick and then eventually he's first at a puck. Leonard is and then he kind of goads him into tripping him and taking a penalty. And Schaefer's been not only so disciplined in his rookie season, but he's been doing that to the opposition time and time again this year. And so we saw that script flipped as well. And I think Leonard is just awesome. I wish I'd brought this up when we were talking about the lightning. Anything else to talk about the lightning?

the Gord Gensel not wanting to score the open net goal, just passing it back and forth to one another. I love that, the Leonard bit. And then, okay, one of my other favorite moments, the Ducks come back against the Kings, where instead of not catching the puck, Darcy Kemper dropped his stick, like had lost his stick on the game-tying goal.

And then after the Ducks score the game winner, tripped on his way off the ice. And I was just like, this is unbelievable. This is everything we've ever said about Darcy Kemper being like really good, but weirdly clumsy for a high-end goldender. I'm just sitting on my couch pointing on my screen. Yeah, I knew it. Yeah. Sorry, just real quick, you mentioning the Leonard engagement against the Islanders just reminded me of two of the other funny things that I saw this week.

You know, while we're on the caps, I want to incorporate a weekly running bit here. The Ilya Proto update because, you know, we're so obsessed with the pro die and getting both guys in the league. Goal scoring streak up to seven games. And in the most recent one, beautiful goals scored with the assists coming from your guy, Maryshnichenko and Andrew Crystal as well, just incredibly exciting. 10 goals, 19 points, and 19 AHL games is a teenager. And so that is your weekly update. But I remain steadfast in my excitement about this as a subplot and us getting a second pro die at some point here soon.

I mean, point per game at the American League level at the age of 19? Oh, my God. like he doesn't even turn 20 till this summer and he's point per game in the HL right now that's that's absurd like I don't know what else to say and I still think Miroschenko's got something there I mean he's very close to being a point per game guy and I also think the world of Andrew Crystal how do they have so much more coming yeah so many weapons up unbelievable McMichael's gone going here recently and we have so much faith in Spencer Carberry to get the most out of these guys once they do come up to the show as well

All right, next time I list, Mark Stone's return this week, and he'd been out since October 18th or something, missed a bunch of time. I was watching the game against the Sharks on Saturday, and we've seen 32 minutes now this season of this five forward power play set with Marner up high acting as a defenseman, and they generated 10 goals in that time, and seemingly every opportunity they have is a great A where they're just kind of picking their teeth with the opposition. and the power play kind of come down a little bit in Stone's absence, and I think some of the stuff he unlocks working kind of down low by the net at that goal line is a big reason for that. And it's three games only. They lost a couple of them, but his five-on-five impact as well. These are as expected goal shares in those games, 83.5%, 74% and 80%.

And the importance of keeping him in bubble wrap, I think, at this point for the Golden Knights and making sure that he's actually playing at this level come to playoffs is going to be one of the most important stories because, you know, they're going to get William Carlson back at some point once they're at full health. We're very excited about their forward group, but it does feel like despite all the additions and the emergence of Dorafei have and everything they've got going on, still the difference with and without stone here for me is a massive subplot moving forward.

Yeah, he's still probably the smartest two-way winger in hockey. Might not be the most impactful anymore given where he, his paces, but it doesn't matter. This guy is incredible. Thank you to a friend of the podcast and host of Rick's receipts, Rick Tocket, for his performance on Saturday evening because I was staring down the barrel of the most self-indulgent victory lap ever from you about the week the devil's had where they scored a bunch of goals, got some depth contributions, ignoring what I actually said last week, which was that I think they'd be fine because of the special teams in the top line, the goaltending to survive in the absence of Jack Hughes, but I had massive reservations

and skepticism about the state of the rest of the group. And their depth scoring. And their depth scoring. And then I pointed out that they'd shot a poor percentage. And then they went on a bit of a shooting heater, including Dawson Mercer scoring an absolute beauty that you know had you sweating. Oh, it was an incredible effort coming back, taking it from Ziegress dancing from one side to the other. Yeah, it was great. At that moment that that goal was scored, I was like, man, I might get a devil's regulation win and be completely insufferable on the pod tomorrow. Well, you still have an opportunity to do so moving forward. But, yeah, I was texting you this, regardless of these results, I feel like for a team that should have, if not Stanley Cup aspirations for this season, being a legitimate inner circle contender.

and I still think that is within their range of outcomes if at full health, even at full health right now the way they're constructed, relying and having the list of bottom six forwards they have in here and you can see in this game, like there's this promising counter-opportunity, Stefan Nason's flying into the zone, oh, he's got a trailer available, it's Luke Lindenning who gets back-checked and nothing comes of it. And I'm like, this is very unsurious in my opinion

and I feel like we need to reorient our expectations in terms of what this team should be versus what it is right now. And so that was my, that was the point that I was making last week, not that I wouldn't think they'd regress a little bit statistically or start scoring more goals as they did here. Yeah, I, look, I agree with you also. I mean, they got results this week, and that's consistent with, you know, my expectations,

but definitely not yours, that they'd be able to hold the forward. I can't imagine Sheldon Keeve was very excited about, particularly the Red Wings and Sabers games despite the results. They did not play especially well. And I do think we also should be having a conversation about Simone Nemich, a guy we're both very excited by in terms of the tools and the scoring profile and his love for ripping opponents' hearts out at three-on-three. And what's happened, like when he's played with Brendan Dillon a little bit further down the lineup, it's looked amazing. but those Siegenthall are minutes against tougher competition I do think are just worth sort of noting that

the step up sometimes for especially a 20-year-old 21-year-old defenseman you know it's not always seamless and I do think in his case it's pretty clear to me right now that this is a guy probably best served still in more prescribed usage further down lineup where he can be an offensive spark plug and absolutely help you attack the soft underbelly of opposition rosters

as opposed to being, I think, a guy that you really want out there that you're leaning on in Tufts. And so for me, that's just a development that I noticed in watching these games. Even though they're winning, I felt like some of the limitations in his defensive IQ against top competition was evident to me and was sort of partly why these performances left me cold

despite their shooting percentage regression and run of results and really underlined too how much the Peschi absence hurts this team in terms of just not slotting guys as optimally as they will be if this roster is able to run healthy together in the most important times of the year. Yeah, even with Ocovee Savage, the way they were constructed at the start of the season

with Pesci around, I think. allowed things to fall into their natural spots. He had a Nemitz had a rough game on Saturday against the Flyers, some bad reads in the defensive zone. A couple times, I think, just as a byproduct of how much you're playing, some costly mistakes near the offensive zone blue line as well. But ultimately, like, for a team that needs different sources of offense and goal scoring juice, he's provided that so far.

And I feel like it's one of those things where you've got to take the lumps along the way. Yep. And these extra minutes, while they might look ugly at certain times, I feel like are going to be a net positive in the long term, especially in evaluating his future and what that's going to look like in this organization because he's coming off his ELC, you're going to have some decisions in the next couple summers.

And so I feel like this is a good trial run. Why do you think the Vancouver Beat writer is paying close attention to that? Right? Yeah. I mean, it's as simple as that. This is, you know, something that I've been watching the Devils with a different eye than I think the general public. And, you know, Nemich's struggles against Tufts is something that's just leaping off the ice a little bit for me at the moment.

I do like despite the mistakes, I do like how him and Lukey's play off of each other. Yeah, I agree. Especially in the offensive zone. Like, I feel like they really get that five-man motion element that the abs incorporates so well. And I feel like that's something to tap into more moving forward. We got about 10 minutes left here. What do you want to close out with? I had a couple other notes, but I feel like we've had all the main stuff I wanted to do.

The Ducks, I want to talk about really quickly, you know, they blow a lead to the Chicago Blackhawks and this should be of no surprise to anybody. They also eliminated a big commanding L.A. King's lead this weekend, which also should be of no surprise to anybody. Dostal has hidden the extent to which the ducks are giving up. Vulnerable. Giving up exceptionally glorious chances to the opposition at a terrifying rate. and Dostel has successfully been a calming presence. I mean, they knew the Canucks look like they had some offensive pop. A lot of it.

A lot of it. Yeah. I mean, they also. And then I watched the Canucks Kings game on Saturday, and I was like, why am I doing this right now? No, and the Canucks did look like they had offensive pop. The Ducks still should have outscored them. Probably, you know, probably should have doubled them up.

But the Canucks got an exceptional goaltending performance from Nikita Tolapilo. The Ducks absolutely did not from Jacob Razick, and there you go. More than anything, though, I felt like the experience this weekend of learning that it was going to be weeks, not days, that Dostal was out, and then watching that King's game and having that takeaway that's like, they probably will be okay, okay being a relative term, they'll at least be able to, you know, chug along at like 550 point percentage, I assume, because there's just some. nights where what they try is going to work offensively and their gear is so high that they're going to skate opponents off the ice. But there's also, the Chicago game then was the reminder that there's also going to be commanding leads where they're on their way to doing it in a way that they probably would have had a chance to sustain if you've got Dostal cleaning up your mess and they're not going to be able to hold those leads. And I think that's what we saw against

Chicago on Sunday. So I'll be curious if there's like any impetus or emphasis on being less generally sloppy in sort of their details. Like the Baderd's second goal, the game winner is the perfect example where like there's an easy chance to clear the ducks don't want to make the simple play and it costs them. You know, is this going to be something where they can take an opportunity to not reinvent what they're doing because I want to keep watching what they're doing. It's the best show on ice.

But where they at least try to curb some of that a little bit in terms of the pond hockey style that's worked so well for them to this point, but also I think comes with very evident limitations, which are more likely to be keenly felt over the short term in Doe's absence. Yeah, even in that defeat, there were like three or four times where Leo Carlson set up a great A off the rush, and I just didn't wind up going. If it does, and it will on a lot of nights, it's an entirely different story. I think it's fine.

Like the way they play is so high variance right now in terms of the number of events and the outcomes that can come and no lead being safe. And I think ultimately it's such a massive net positive for them. I mean, I was just to wrap this up, I was thinking about the Canucks Ducks game, which was so different than a lot of Canucks games this year.

Yeah. And then watching the Kings game on Saturday and what the Kings do to you. I watched that game fully and then in preparation for the show, I was like going through the condensed 10 minute highlights on sports. and the third period highlights are the opening draw, and then it immediately fast forwards to, like, the final two seconds,

it's like, we're going overtime. I'm like, yep, that was that game. Well, and I'd say the last three or four minutes were the most evident gentleman's agreement, three, four minutes of hockey I've seen all season, where both teams were very, very happy to play for OT. Between two divisional opponents, which I feel like should never happen.

Well, I agree with you. Yeah. The Kings have a 60-minute gentleman's agreement to get it to over time. A very bare minimum to draw out a point. Utah scuffling. Yeah, I've been disappointed. I was speaking about it with Harmon recently on the show with the usage. I feel like they just need to play their top players more.

In particular, there's these nights where Logan Cooley just I look up and he played 15 minutes tonight and they were all very good. But for some reason, it wasn't 20. And I've been disappointed by that. and then how they haven't really demonstrated the amount of juice that I thought they'd have offensively, right? Where you talked about this warp speed. Yes. And when they're cooking and on a good night, you see it, or at least flashes of it.

But it's been so inconsistent. And when you take away some of those options, a lot of their transition stuff bogs down and then in zone, it's not quite there. I feel like they overreacted to the bottom six struggling offensively because that line with Peturca playing with Gunther and Cooley was so elect. electric at the start of the year and then they wanted to spread it out and they're playing like carcone or yamamoto with those guys on the second line and bumping uh patyrka down to the third and i feel like that was a mistake and so they certainly have some figuring out to do

they're kind of treading water right now but i feel like it should be a lot more fun and more productive than it's been yeah i do think their ability to control games is still super elite but they do feel like they're still a finisher away yeah i mean to me anyway uh either a finisher or a killer goaltender, but there's something where it just, I'm watching these games and their level of control isn't being matched on the scoreboard. And we're now at like 120 games where I felt like this, like a big enough sample that, you know, Paterka was a nice ad, but they might need more. I'm honestly, I'm almost thinking about it like when the 2012 Kings got Jeff Carter and then did it again with Gaborik, like, or, or, you know, what we've seen.

occasionally where a good team adds a really good goaltender or goaltending upgrade and all of a sudden what we think they deserve based on their form is actually more closely approximated by how they're outscoring their opponents. I just feel like they're still a piece short. And that's a little bit disappointing to me just because I thought they'd have enough internally with the expected improvement, which we've mostly got from their young guys. But yeah, that's just that their last 10 games they've been scuffling but every time I watch them I see a team that has as high a gear as anyone in the sport yeah and I know like a disproportionate amount of his production this year is coming three or four absolute new games but in watching those games I keep

coming away from those meetings being like man Logan Cooley is is so good yeah like he creates so much and thankfully he's their entire offense at times yeah and that's why I out for a while and that's why yeah and that's why I can I haven't been able to reconcile his usage because it's like I understand he's young you're kind of put him more and more on his plate you don't want to overdo it early on but we're at the point and I think he's shown he's capable of where it's like this guy should be playing

22 minutes every night and be treated as one of the premier forwards in the league and he hasn't been yet so I was getting on my notes talking about the Jets and they bounce back a little bit in Nashville I'm not going to give them that much credit for it despite it being a second of a back to back as it is the Preds

but they went through this brutal stretch and I know not having Hellebuck there to erase some mistakes and provide a certain level of baseline or insulation is going to get a lot of the talking points nationally. But a lot of our concerns about how much slower and older they got this offseason. They're the oldest team in the league. They're dead last in every skating metric in terms of team speed has been exactly what you see when you watch them play.

They've been so reliant more than any other team on their top line and top defensemen to create everything for them at 5-1-5. if they'd gone like 300 minutes or something up until yesterday's game without a goal from another forward that's not on that top line. And so massive concerns moving forward, especially as you look at the top of the central with it being really kind of solidified now right now, certainly with the top two. But now Minnesota just churning out points at the rate they have building a gap between themselves and everyone else. All of a sudden now you're getting into wildcard territory and I think that's pretty alarming. Yeah. The speed thing for sure has shown, and I mean, they've had Samburg come back now, and it's helped, but Samberg's not what they're missing. You know what I mean? Like Samberg... They need creators.

They need creators. And they need guys who can cook a little bit through the neutral zone. And, you know, they're just shorthanded in that area. Nyquist and Kyle Conner basically can only do so much. And you feel it. You feel it when you're watching them and you feel it doubly. So when you're watching them and they don't have Connor Hellebuck behind them, you know, not bailing them out. That would be unfair because I do think they play a really locked-in team defensive game. But making it when you combine the two.

When you combine Hellebuck with the way the Jets defend, you know, that's where things get really interesting. it but yeah i mean i sort of interesting because i don't feel like nikolai eilers has been as dynamic as he probably will be for a two-month stretch in his first 20x games with the carolina hurricanes but i feel like his absence is the most sorely felt you know what i mean like of the of the big name or high-profile players that changed teams this year including Mitch Marner. I feel like I notice the lack of

Eilers when I watch Winnipeg almost more than I feel like I do even when I watch the Leafs without Marner. Well, because here's the thing. Every good team needs a wild card like that. And ironically, it was the game on Friday against his former team with the Jets

in town in Carolina. And that line of Eilers, Stankovin and Blake, which had been awesome previously, had a very uncharacteristically poor game. They were kind of stuck in their own zone, and bobbling pucks, not really just having the looks they usually do. And then in the third period, all of a sudden, they enter the zone, Blake fires it over to Eilers, he goes on his backhand, rips it off the bar.

And like in a blink of a night, they had nothing going all night. And he nearly just broke the game open, and it was 1-1 at that time. And that's exactly what the hurricanes have been lacking. And that's what the jets are lacking right now offensively, where just another option, so you're not just relying on the top line, they can go out there and all of a sudden make something out of it. Well, and the guy who, you know, shifely, with the sort of intricate team-level passing game,

Valardi, exceptional net front weapon with incredible hockey sense. Kyle Conner, one of the best at working to find quiet ice. All of their offensive games are contingent on, you know, playing within a certain team structure, where Zilers was just, let's regroup and he will pick his shot at the perimeter. That's the sort of individual creative element that you just feel it when you watch them play. missing. All right, buddy, we're at the point of the show where you got a drum up interest in people listening to you talk about the Canucks. Yeah, Canucks Talk, SportsNet 650. I don't know.

I mean, at some point I'm going to do a big deep dive on where Stanley Cup winners come from and sort of just like very, very plainly and objectively make the case for a rebuild in this market. Having good players at the top of the list. Have good players. That's at the very top of the list. So, and where do you find them? So that's going to be something. that I'm going to start working on this week and rolling out both at the Athletic where I write about the Canucks and at Canucks Talk on SportsNet 650,

noon to 2 p.m. Every weekday on your AM dial in Vancouver or wherever you find your podcasts. Nicely done, buddy. This is why you're a broadcasting professional. That enthusiasm. It's tough to pull off. I'm excited. Subscribe to the PDOCAS Patreon.

If you enjoyed today's show, get extra episodes for all the sickos moving forward. Give us a five-star review wherever you listen, and join the PDOCAST Discord. That's all for another edition of the Sunday special. We'll be right back here with Drans. Next Sunday, we'll be back here with myself and a guest on Tuesday with plenty more. So thank you for listening to the Hockey Ocast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.