The Hockey PDOcast - The Season Finale

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Thomas Drance for the season finale episode to reflect on the moves we’ve seen this week and to take stock of where various notable teams are at heading into the summer. They discuss the K’Andre Miller trade for the Hurricanes, what the Devils can do to optimize their lineup with all of the pieces they currently have under contract, the playoff picture in the West, the difference in the market this summer compared past ones, how the Blue Jackets spent their copious amounts of cap space, and the clubs that wound up keeping their powder dry to this point.  If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Progressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey P.D.O. cast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEOCast. My name is Dimitra Filipovich. And joining me is my good buddy Thomas Trans. Tom, what's going on? Well, it's July 2nd, which means I get to pretend that I'm a big insider and be like, and I'm off to the cottage. But of course I'm not. I'm still going to be grinding away for at least a week here. Well, now that Mate Blumel and Justin Danforth are off the board, I feel like you're

interest level has really dropped off. The Justin Danforth sweepstakes could not have hit like all of my hockey observer pleasure centers more squarely like from the breathless Aaron Portsline updates in the lead up to the market opening to then there being like four teams in the mix for Justin Danforth. Like if you were a Danforth head for me and my Danforth heads, the way this played out on Tuesday. Me, Justin Danforth is family. Was just fantastic.

And then Mattie Blumel. And we'll talk about this more, but. Well, the full show today is just a breakdown of those two times. The Blue Mel thing for me is just that the obvious profiles of like a free agent flyer worth taking, those aren't getting done on August 15th. In fact, there are none. There are none that are as obvious as, for example, Pugh Souter was two years ago when he signed in Vancouver and mid-August for 1.6 times two. usually we get deep into the summer and people are like, why hasn't anyone signed X guy who obviously should be on a roster?

And this year, those guys absolutely do not exist and did not exist on July 1. But that doesn't mean that there's not bets worth making. You just have to make sort of like longer odds profile bets. And Blumel was the ultimate example of one given his scoring rates in the HL at 23, 24, 25. And the fact that he's kind of a dog. He's a really good forward on retrievals. a really effective four checker. He's not small. He's six foot. He's 200 plus pounds. I mean, that was a really good deal for Boston. And congratulations to them. They won the free agent

frenzy despite signing the worst deal of the day. That's what you get when you take the flyer on Blumel. Well, I texted you this last night, but the Sabres going out and getting Justin Danforth, then your guy, Zach Jones, investing longer term into Ryan McLeod. I was like, man, you're going to get hurt by the Buffalo Sabers again. I can already feel you being suck. back in. It's them and the Anaheim docks are both like absolutely pulling me back in. And I've been high on both of those teams having a glow up for three years in a row. It hasn't happened yet.

I'm back. I'm ready to be heard again. So this is a, this is the final show of the season. And we're here in studio. We're going to have some fun over the next hour. So I did a two hour kind of traditional recap of July 1 and all the moves that happened. I thought it would be fun for me and you to circle back a little bit, going into some detail.

Also just put our sort of spin and finishing touches on it. As we do. And kind of go through some of the stuff I found, or we found most interesting in a sense. And we're going to talk about a lot of stuff that did happen. I find myself gravitating to thinking about what's next, but also in terms of some of the teams who either have some bullets left in the chamber or were very noticeably lurking in the weeds yesterday

and didn't really do much. and still have very viable moves to make, right? I think of the Colorado avalanche. Now, you and I are recording this. It's a Wednesday afternoon. We just found out Pew Suter signed for two years, four million per with the blues. We still don't have a resolution on the Nikola Eilers deal,

and by the time people are listening, I'm sure it'll probably come out. Let's just discuss it as if he's going to Carolina, because that's what everyone in the league seems to expect. Well, I've got a lot of notes on him on the abs, and I know that the hurricanes and the capitals have been kind of labeled by a lot of the insiders, as the two teams that are still left on the board.

But it does feel like a lot of what the avalanche have done in clearing out the coil and wood contracts, going just the one year to keep it at 1.4 on Sam Malinski, not really, you know, letting Druan and Lindgren go. It feels like they still have a big move to make, and that would be the most obvious fit, not only in terms of just adding him to this roster with that skill set and what a mesh thing that would be between the two,

but also then what it allows you to do potentially with an ageist trade to improve your roster elsewhere, or a variety of different options. So I keep coming back to them as a logical one, but you're right. Like it seems like the hurricanes with all their cap space and the fact that their big move

was adding Keondre Miller yesterday, it seems like that's going to be the most logical fit at this point. That's just what everyone in the league that I've been chatting with across, you know, like this morning, for example, making some calls and trying to figure out

because the sense that I had, I was mostly on Pew Souter duty, as you can expect, as a Connectors beat writer. One thing I'd heard was that waiting, on Eelers had caused guys like Jack Roselvic and Pew Souter to be sort of

dominoes awaiting the first, you know, big sort of block to tip over, which would be Eelers. And multiple people that I asked around the league were just like, oh, I don't know why anyone would be waiting. Everyone thinks he's going to Carolina.

So, anyway, we'll be interesting to see if that ages poorly or not, but... Well, do you want to start off with the canes? I loved what the canes did. So, yeah. So they got the, I talked to this already, they did the eight-year extension, the bet on, on Logan Stankovin at 6 million per for his age 24 to 31 seasons. Obviously, your thoughts on going long on RFA's are well established at this point.

And the Carolina hurricanes appear to agree. Completely. You know, before that, they bring back Eric Robinson at 1.7. They add Mike Riley as a depth defenseman. The original. They didn't look over my list because they were like, we can just resign Eric Robinson. The guy who spawned list worldwide. The Kandre Miller trade

I've had some time to really kind of digest it and think about it a bit more after reacting to it sort of live yesterday I think the price is on paper it seems like it's high and I think the reason I feel that way maybe is because I expected the Rangers to sell really low in that trade like I was

getting myself around the idea that it was going to be like Mario Ferraro and a mid-round pick or something to just add a defender who can step in and potentially play in your top four at a reasonable salary. And that's the route they were going to go. And so I think for them to actually get a relatively meaningful package back of assets, and I'm really high on Scott Morrow. I think he's a great bet for them to make. A really interesting bet, yeah.

I think they did well there. But for the hurricanes, the reason they're able to make moves like this and a lot of the other stuff they've done in the past when they've taken swings the past year and a half or so, they put themselves in this position where it's very justifiable for them, right? They have the extra first that they're given up here from the rant and in trade. The second is so inconsequential because we know the other first they have is going to be a late one, most likely.

And at the draft, they're going to trade it for a second and a fourth and all of a sudden recoup that very easily. And then you can afford to make the financial bet on Keandrea Miller at 7.5 because Jacob Slavin is at 6.4 or just under that. And then none of your other defense are even over four. And so you essentially are able to book that salary slot on him for a defender who is a big toolsy defender in the prime of his career with some of the contracts we've seen given out

to a lot of defensemen like that over the past week or so it makes a ton of sense and i do think as an archetype like he is such a natural fit for the way the hurricanes and rod brindermore want to play it's very easy to see why they valued him and prioritized them so much in this transaction the the range he has right the skating ability some of the the chase downs he has defensively with how he can backtrack and just cover so much ground, the play killing ability at the point of the attack, like they're going to

get the most out of that skill set and it's going fit in perfectly. And now you're doing so, adding him and obviously Nikisha now in a full-time role with Morrigan, replacing the minutes from, you got from Orlov and Burns last year, which became really troublesome towards the end in that Panther series specifically.

Especially with Miller's skating ability relative to Orlov and Burns at this stage. You know, you're going to try and beat the Panthers at their own game playing stress hockey, you need the defender that can get back and clear the zone and Burns and Orlov time after time were not those guys. They just weren't. They just are at a stage of their career where that foot speed didn't play against an elite opponent, the elite opponent in the NHL right now.

Kandre Miller's got the pace to at least make a more credible, take a more credible stab at it. We also saw them have great success doing essentially the exact version of this previously with Brady Shea. Yep. Who in his prime was obviously a great skater and they got the most out of him. They paid whatever, first or whatever at the time. And I was like, oh, that seems pretty steep. And then all of a sudden he's playing valuable top four minutes for him and they're maximizing his skills while insulating all his weaknesses. With the hurricanes too, you need to remember your impressions of Kandre Miller where it's like, oh, I like his speed.

I like the defense. I like some of the defensive instincts. I'm not sure about his like hockey IQ as a puck mover. And it's like, okay, well, imagine him in a system where he at no point ever does anything but punts the puck. Yeah. Right? I mean, this is what made Jalen Chapfield a top four defensemen. I was watching Jalen Chapfield at the American League level for years in Vancouver.

And what he's become in Carolina, I never could have imagined. It's a different structured environment. And this is the sort of bet. high traits, you know, not sure about him as a puck mover, can make some iffy decisions, you know, with the puck, you're a Carolina hurricane. All of, you have to strip all of that out of your evaluation, and it becomes a very different sort of mode

of thinking about what a defender's potential is. You could not find a better fit for how they want to play than Kandre Miller. And I'd add this, you know, you make that offer sheet at a similar level, 7.5 million. You're surrendering, what, a first, a second, and a third? Yep. Right?

So they're surrendering a first to second in morrow except with all of the risks stripped out of it because they're conditional picks. Yeah. Right. So to some of it. And they're getting him for the eight years for. And they're getting him for the full extent of his prime. Right. Yeah.

So. Yeah. I mean, I think they're buying. They're fixing the costs of a relatively rare profile defensemen for our current environment, but on a deal that will last through, you know, a world where pro, pro-verrov at 8.5 feels like a bargain. Well, I wouldn't go that far. You wait. You just wait.

I've unfortunately watched Ivan Broverall play hockey. As of I. I don't think playing, maybe we can have this discussion on a later day, but I feel like if the biggest selling point for you, and I think he's like a useful defenseman who can, has utility, but if the biggest selling point for you as a player is you play a lot of minutes, I'm not really sold that that should be viewed

as a massive selling point. Because on the one hand, like you do stuff, I guess, that, that, let's come back to, let's come back to talking about Ivan Proverov, because I'll sell you on Proverov later. The,

and then I'll sell you on Eric Holla. But the, the, Kandre Miller part of this, you know, I think fixing that cost in our current climate, I think that's going to pay huge dividends.

I think they're going to get more out of him. And honestly, I think the cost is totally right. I like Scott Morrow as a bet, too, but there's a big gap in what you should reasonably expect in the short term from Morrow versus Miller. Like there's a real possibility, even a probability that Morrow's never as impactful as Miller is now. Yep.

And the hurricanes have locked up and now given them a shot to realize all of that upside for a defender who couldn't get into their lineup in the playoffs and a first and a second, which they were prepared to pay. In fact, with muted value relative to what they would have been. prepared to pay if they just tendered Miller the offer sheet. I thought that was a home run for Carolina. I do agree with you that New York sort of made the best of it. But then you bridge Will Cooley and it's like, oh, this is the gap between these two teams and that gap's only going to widen while Carolina is getting things like Stankovin at 6 forever and Miller at 8 7.5 forever.

And you're setting yourself up to sign a far riskier, far more expensive deal with a guy we all. know is all know. We all know he's bound for like a lengthy career as a heavy skilled top six guy. Um, like that's the exact profile of a guy you don't want to be negotiating with when he's 26 and you're looking at a max term extension that takes him through his mid 30s. Like that becomes dicey given the way he plays. He had 300 hits. You know, that's not, that's the guy you want to sign and mine their entire prime. So anyway, that's how they got, I mean, that's how they got into this position with Giondra Miller in the first place, right? Because they've been trying to walk this fine line against the cap and kicking the ball down

the road. But at least they were making it deep. At least they were... Yeah, when you're in the conference finals, it's very easy to sell. When you're a credible contender three years ago, it's one thing. When you're an aging team that doesn't have a fastball five on five, even if you did land Mike Sullivan, I like the bet an awful lot less. And I especially like it less when you're talking about the almost can't miss profile like

coolly in my mind. Like a guy who, for whatever reason, isn't valued like Matt. Matthew Nyes, but honestly should be viewed as a similar caliber of player. And I just think that's a tremendous missed opportunity. So I liked the Rangers making the best of it. But when you look at the balance of their work versus the balance of the hurricane's work, like there's a gap in the thoughtfulness of that approach, in how adaptive that approach is to our current climate.

And the gap between these two teams, provided they both continue to make moves on this sort of track. is only going to widen in the years ahead. Well, I think that point you made earlier about Miller's skill set and sort of limiting the weaknesses, a lot of what drew the hire for people who watched him in New York were two things on the puck, some of the puck management and kind of giveaways

and the exposure of that is going to be so minimized in Carolina. And then sometimes, like, he's really good man-on-man in terms of, like, tracking a guy. And when he's like, all right, I'm going to get glued to this guy, he's got the puck, I'm going to erase him, he's phenomenal at that. Sometimes off the puck he can have lapses in coverage and kind of get lost in his own zone. And that's going to be less of an issue in Carolina as well because of their aggressive man-on-man system. And he's just essentially going to be just dog on a bone with whoever has the puck.

And so I think that makes a lot of sense. I think the usage is important as well, right? Because in New York, when you have a guy like Adam Fox on your depth chart and you're giving him certain minutes. and, and let's be real, he hasn't been at his best either across the last two years. Adam Fox. I mean, we've seen Adam Fox play at a higher level

where you can be a passenger on that pair. He hasn't been at that level the last two years. Yes. But I think the minutes away from him were, right, whether it was with Trubar or then after they acquired Borgon last year, it's such heavy, it's such heavy deployment in terms of not only ice time because, like, he played 18 and a half minutes at 5-15 last year,

or the zone deployment where it's like 45% offensive zone starts. You look at the way the hurricanes use their defenseman and Slavin plays the most and he's like 17 minutes at 5-1-5 and then all their guys are like in the high 50s in office zone start because the hurricanes are never in their zone. And so all of a sudden now I think the usage becomes much more manageable. And so optimizing the player and getting more out of him, I have no doubt he's going to look better than he looked in New York. So I think it's a no-brainer. You look at the defensive depth chart as well.

The reaction to that deal is very much like the reaction to the Cloud Savoy deal where the consensus seemed to be like what a steal for the Rangers and that reaction is going to have no relationship to how it actually plays out once we get into the season. I agree. They also still have a lot of malleability of course even on the blue line, right? Because you have Slavin, Miller and let's say Sean Walker is all just because of his term there for the next while. But even Chadfield and Gosses Bear, they have two years left and the way the deals are structured the final year for both guys. There's pretty limited trade restrictions. and their actual salary drops quite a bit.

So if they want to keep leveling up and really building out this blue line beyond how good it already is, I think there's a lot of paths there. I think part of the reason why maybe people reacted the way they did to the deal was just because I think everyone came into this offseason with the thought process of the hurricanes out like $27 million or $28 million in cap space. They're going to go big game hunting up front. And if they do wind up being the Eilers team, that addresses that area of need. But right now, this being sort of the first dominoer to fall.

is I think a reason why people were a little bit surprised by it. And so they clearly have something else coming. I mean, still with over 18 million in cap space, very workable there. I do wonder if that doesn't wind up coming to fruition. I keep coming back to the Penguins. I know they made the Jake Gensel trade with them a couple deadlines ago. They have a bunch of players that I think would make the hurricanes a lot better. And those would be two very obvious trade partners for me.

All right, we did like 15 minutes on the hurricanes. Let's keep it moving. I want to cover as many teams as we can. What do you want to talk about next? Can we talk Tampa? We can. Because we can get through Tampa quick. Let's do it.

I was talking about how you have to dig deeper to find those profiles that can pay dividends and unrestricted free agency. Jacob Pellichet, three-year deal. First year is two-way, but it's basically a league men sort of bet. And then who was the other gentleman they signed? Oh, Pontus Holmberg. Yep. The Pontus Holmberg. The Pontus Holmberg.

Look, we all know that Tampa Bay, one of their issues is that they have like seven good forwards. and, you know, they're really good forwards and they work their absolute bag off. But even adding Bjork Strand and Gord, like even making a deal to address their depth at the deadline, you know, the moment they lost Bjork Strand, you could see the seams everywhere. And what it looked like in their depth minutes against Florida was unflattering, unworkable for them going forward. Well, they're not getting out of the Atlantic Division. Like there's a road to the Stanley Cup and right now it goes through Alligator Aller. and not toward them, but on the southern end. And so I, look, they didn't have much cap space and they didn't have many options.

And this was a deeply weak free agent class. But I think double dipping into the secondary market and picking two guys with really interesting profiles. And in Pellichet's case, some actual juice. I thought that was just a perfect, thoughtful adjustment for, how much less confident you should be in trying to mine these sorts of profiles in the bargain bin and unrestricted for agency. But just because it feels worse than it did two, three years ago based on the talent that you're getting doesn't mean that the effort's not worthwhile.

It doesn't mean that that's not your best route to like maybe finding a guy who can give you average or better contributions as the ninth best forward on your team. and I think they added two guys with the potential to do that, one who's more defensively oriented in Holmberg, one who's maybe more offensively oriented, or at least certainly more transitionally oriented in Pelichet. So I actually thought that was like stubborn in a good way from Julian Brisewell and the Tampa Bay Lightning.

Like, oh yeah, the secondary market is weak this year. Let's still go into that sort of area of the pond and try and pull something of value out of it. Yeah, no, I like that. I think you said everything that is to say about the Lightning right now. I find it interesting that they were also listed as one of the Eilers finalist teams. I love how all the usual suspects that seemingly have no flexibility or ability to take on salary or seem just set at that position are always the teams who are in the mix.

I think that's pretty telling. Can we talk a global point? Sure. Always. If Carolina does land ealers, Marner goes to Vegas and Florida keeps all there guys. Are we on the precipice of like a cap growth era that ends up being an extreme force for stratification within the NHL, wherein the rich teams get richer, the good teams have far less pressure on them to lose their players

and make the sorts of tough decisions that the hard cap era, even prior to the full. Black Cap era necessitated and as such have a longer runway, have an ability to build a degree of continuity that has eluded teams dating back to, you know, 2005, 2006 even. Are we in a moment where the mushy middle is about to become even more difficult to launch yourself out of? It is because just through the nature of more cap space, it's going to increase team's ability to retain. Yeah.

a lot of their own players, as we saw with a lot of these guys just not even making it to market the way they might have otherwise previously. And I do think we get into an interesting spot. And we've already seen this a little bit. And maybe this is the extreme end of it because the UFA pool was so shallow in terms of talent. And that might not be the case in future off seasons. But with so many teams having cap space, some of them just aren't going to be able to functionally fill it the way I think they'd like to. Right. and so for some of these teams.

Johnny Goddrow, Johnny Goddrow, who like, Heart of Hearts, I'd love to go to Philly. Oh, Philly doesn't have the cap space and isn't willing to pay the price to create it so that I can sign there.

Well, Columbus is close enough. Like, that's not happening in this new environment. No, it's not. And it's had a direct impact in the trade market, obviously, as we've seen with a lot of these guys

who otherwise had no value or negative value all of a sudden are being treated as commodities. And I think that's really interesting. You want to talk to the devil real quick before we go to break because I got some I got some thoughts on them they had you know they made some moves on July 1st certainly they bring in Connor round for four years of three million they bring in our guy ofgeny didonov uh for one million with some with some performance bonuses attached they bring in your guy bringing them back to the NHL you you home out lanico um they retain Cody glass for two years

they get Jake Allen back keeping his AV at under two million because they give them the the five year term and they make those moves yet they're the team I was thinking of when I was talking off the top about what comes next and finishing out this roster, right? Because on the one hand, they have a full roster essentially set right now, yet on the other, given the specifics of especially how many guys they have on the blue line, I feel like they're so primed to make an ambitious swing in the trade market here at some point this offseason. And I wonder, I hope, as someone who thinks they have a really high ceiling for the next whatever five years for as long as they have Jack Hughes on the sweetheart deal, they have them, especially with EcoHistier for two of those years, I'd love to see it. I don't have complete confidence that Tom Fitzgerald is thinking that way right now, especially how they handled last off season. But they have so many bullets in the chamber right now in terms of what they do want to do. And I'm curious to see how they manage it while trying to scale for the future, but also competing. this season and just like how they approach this big crossroads they're at right now.

Yeah, and how they approach keeping their powder dry with an eye toward next off season, a certain Western Canadian-based defensemen that I think needs to be thrown into these sorts of discussions. Do they need assets to make sure that they can be in that bidding if that bidding comes about at some point? Yeah, be careful not to tamper though. Yeah, be careful not to tamper all in the family. the yeah so there's a lot for them to weigh but I do think you can ignore in

in well the devil's case two sort of factors here one is you know how much rope does Tom Fitzgerald have how much job security does Tom Fitzgerald have does that necessitate some level of aggression in the near term and secondly you know if it did that would be completely justified because even as I like Carolina's moves you know until they have Euler's his autograph on a contract, like, there's still question marks around that team, even if we trust them to find creative ways to use that 18 million in cap space to improve. From a devil's perspective, like you have to look at the state of the metro in general and view your window as being wide open. Yeah. This is the time.

You should be the best team in the metro. You should be the team that's a foil to the Florida Panthers, given the high-end talent on that roster. I mean, they have, on Puckpedia, they have about $6 million in Caspers right now. I think if you send down the salaries of Nico Dawes of the third goalie and even Curtis McDermott, who somehow makes $1.5 million, that gets you closer to $8-ish, right? And that's the bare minimum it's going to take for Luke Hughes's next deal going eight years. And once you get that done, you've got a team now that's got 13 forwards, eight defensemen and two goalies, signed, yet I look at the mishmash of talent. And I do really like, as I said,

like, I think of Genni Adonov still, even if 36 years old has a ton of juice. Like, he's so fun to watch every once in a while. He's going to do something that completely blows you away. He had 20 goals playing like 13 and a half minutes last year. He's going to be very helpful. I think part of why they brought him in is they're bringing in this Russian or Sani Gritschuk from the KHL and just helping him with that transition as well. And hopefully they can get something from him this year. But the forward group is still completely in the air for me because the middle six was so bad, or really the bottom six, right?

Because once Jack Hughes is back and healthy and you've got him on the first line and his show on the second line, those guys are going to win their minutes. But they just got nothing last year from the bottom six. Like it was worse than the bottom six for the worst, dry saddle and McDavid oiler seasons. That's how bad it was. And they got rid of Averacalla. They bring in and replace him essentially.

with Connor Brown here. But I think they have some big questions they need to answer. Like Mercer, he's got two years left at $4 million. He's 24 years old. I'm still a Dawson Mercer believer, but I think he probably at this point is better suited on the wing than being your third line center the way it's constructed right now. I think they desperately need to get out of Andre Pallat's deal.

He's owed $6 million for two more years. I know that hurts you as one of the OG Pilat believers. But he was so bad last year. Time comes for us all, man. It really does. It's undefeated. He played. But And Andres Pilat, pound for pound, in his prime, pound for pound, best wallwork, like battle winner, best at cutbacks, just like such a dominant force.

So shout out. Unfortunately, at 345-5 minutes without Jackie's last year, and they got outscored 17 to 6. Yeah, that's not good. They need to figure that out. And I think even more concerning is the minutes you did play with Jackie's. We'll still always have the memories. We still will have the memories. I think with both him and then in the blue line, what they choose to do here.

because they have eight defensemen, essentially, that have to play next year. I know that Nemitz and especially Casey could use more HL seasoning. But you're out of runway on that with Nemmich, though. You are, he needs to play. And I liked what I saw from him after he had a tough start once he got thrown into that hurricane series. He had the OT winner. I thought he played much more confidently. I still believe in him after his rookie season.

But you have eight guys and especially... Could you imagine, though, if they'd pick Cooley? Yeah. I'm still on Nemmets. guy. Yeah, fair enough, but yeah. I mean, Logan Coley doesn't so much skate up as as he teleports. But they're

in a spot where they have five right-hand defensemen, right? And so I think Dougie Hamilton's contract's interesting, especially they just paid like an $11 million or slightly below that signing bonus. Right. And his money owed to $1 million this season for a team acquiring them. And I know he's missed a bunch of times the past two years, but I think

he's still got stuff left in the tank and would be an interesting ad for someone that does have the cap's base to take them on. And so what they do there, because they make that Kovacevich investment, and first off, getting them for what they did last offseason proved to be very smart. And then I think the contract proved to be pretty good, too, considering the market we just saw for defensemen and what they got. And so I think having them at four is very valuable. Steel, honestly is steel. That's Ben Chirot money. What would you do? How would you tap into that if you're them to maximize this roster's outlook for this season as opposed to just hoarding all these

assets and being like, well, let's play the waiting game until the summer of 20, 27. when Quinn Hughes is a UFA when Nico Hishers up for a second deal because I feel like this window over the next year or two should not be overlooked. No, it shouldn't. Like what we saw from them in the first 40, 50 games before the injuries hit, they had a certain defensive level

that was incredibly high. And then they needed more offensive juice. Yeah. But with the top two centers there, there's a clear foundation to build around and the other stuff should theoretically be the easiest part if you're building out a team. Yeah. Man, it's

I think you're right to identify the defense as the surplus. We're seeing a lot of defenders go for a lot of money. And we're seeing a lot of teams that need veteran reinforcement. The problem is, is you can't just go out and get Jack Rossevick, right? Like you need to aim higher if you're the devils. And, you know, I just hope they're not, they're not burned by Tim O'Mire in, in a a way where they think where they've lost faith in taking those swings.

Like they need to take another swing. I think that's where they're at. I think they are almost in that spot where the kings were after the Pierre Luke Dubois swing failed for them. And not that Timom Myers failed for the devils on the same scale that Pierre Luke Dubois did, but in LA. But I think the fact is that we call it a swing for a reason. you know and if you if you miss it's still worth doing if you're a team trying to amplify what your

ceiling can be and i just think the devils are absolutely in a moment where finding a swing finding a difference maker and they're they have an edge because it doesn't have to be a center it can be a winger um but finding one more offensive game breaker is kind of the test here i'm very curious to see the the buzz has really died down on jason yeah after that initial um Sugar rush. Momentum out of the gate, I guess, when the offseason started. And we'll see what the stars decide to do there. But, man, I feel like he is made in a lab as an archetype to fit what the devils need, right?

When you're thinking about one of their biggest weaknesses last year is having someone who can maximize the Jack Hughes just per Bradman. Because that really should be a supernova combination that just completely tilts games in their favor. And then you've got all these plays where those two guys are dancing through the neutral zone. passing the puck around and then it winds up on Andre Polat's stake and it's like, oh, that missed the net and we're going back the other way. Getting a big left winger like that, who theoretically just kind of lets map this out,

part of why he's been able to overcome his foot speed concerns is because Rupert Hince is such a force through the middle, carrying the puck and doing all the heavy lifting in terms of the speed and speeding him up. And then now all of a sudden you could replicate that, playing with Jack Hughes. He's got great defensive metrics. he can do damage around the net.

The size is a nice compliment to those two guys. And I feel like that would be the exact player I'd be targeting who knows how available he actually is. But I do, like, that's the type of swing that I'm talking about. It's not adding Jack Roslovich and being like, oh, we're set. Now we've got all our guys. Even though you could use more reinforcements and we'll see if

Brown and Adonov and those guys are able to provide some of that. But even at the top of the lineup, those are the minutes that you have to be crushing. And Donov and Brown, I think, are worthwhile bets. But yeah, I mean, Robertson with Hughes and company would almost feel like a winger version of Evan Bouchard in that you'd be adding just a player who's like perfectly calibrated. A force multiplier.

Yeah, but perfectly calibrated to turn all the cool things that Jack Hughes is able to do both through the neutral zone and in possession into goals, right? Yeah. And that's, you know, I do think something that they could use more of. And in doing so, you're dealing from an area of surplus with right shot defenders, especially two guys on ELCs. A mercer at 4 million is someone who I'm sure the stars would be able to use. And then you're essentially just alleviating a big financial headache for them while adding the perfect players. So I feel like it might be too neat.

And this just might be wishful thinking on my part. But I feel like a lot of these dominoes are kind of fallen into place for something of that magnitude for the devils. And if they're not going through all of this calculus, then I'm, I'd be concerned about their long-term outlook because this is what you should be thinking, even if you aren't able to act on it. At the very least, it gives them more weaponry to use. All right, let's take our break here. And then when we come back, we're going to close out today's show.

You're listening to the Hockeyedio cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. It's Canucks Central with Dan Richo and Saty R Shaw, your destination for everything Canucks. Exclusive interviews, inside info, and even the post game show. Listen 4 to 6 p.m. weekdays and on demand through your favorite podcast app. All right, we're back here in the Hockey-Ocast with Thomas Drans. Tom, let's keep it going. What do you want to talk about next? Do you want to do a little bit on Bullduke?

Yeah, I did a little bit from the Habs perspective, just being a bet I like because I'm so high on the player. I'm glad you did it from the Habs perspective because I do think the St. Louis perspective should shift just a little bit by the fact that they made a really sharp low risk to your commitment to Pew Souter, where all of a sudden, you know, you've got at least a shift. short-term bet where you feel very comfortable or you should feel very comfortable that the blues have added surplus value to their top six and maybe even their top line. I mean,

Pew Souter can play literally anywhere. He's a perfect fit. And he's an especially perfect fit for a team where the blues have a ton of different outs where they could have, you know, Dvorsky could be just better than we think and like ready to be a third line center. And that, that would be a huge boon to the St. Louis Blues, maybe in the second half of the year. But if he's not ready this year, they now have a guy who's perfectly capable of delivering above average results in a third line role. If one of their wingers, who was so promising last season, Jimmy Snuggroo doesn't quite deliver on the potential that he flashed in a major way in the Stanley Cup playoffs. You know, Pew Souter can play those minutes. And if Snuggard needs to come along a little bit more slowly on the third line, you've now bought him the space to do that.

So I like that part of it. But more than that, the blues effectively are purchasing a rarer profile type, right? The bigger right-handed defenseman for a winger. And you're never going to get a defender of equal value or equal, like, ability at the NHL level today for a defender, much like the Drewash-Sergiev deal, also involving the Montreal-Canadians. and, you know, them being the team giving up a promising defender. Now, I like this bet for Montreal better than I liked the Druand bet for Montreal, given what I saw from Bullduke down the stretch, given the fact that Drouin had clearly been propped up,

and given the fact that that relationship was on the verge of fracturing with the Tampa Bayline. And I think the organizational needs for the HABs as well, right, getting someone who can play with Demidov from day one, the defenseman you already have locked up and coming. And they're intelligently liquidating a surplus following the Dobson acquisition. So all of that, stuff. I still, I think this is, with the Pew Souter trade, just more than anything, puts like an extra little bit of pressure on the scale and makes me view this deal as more palatable from the perspective of like, I think this actually is a trade that both teams could be really, really happy with 18 months from now. I think this is now a deal where the Blues Forward Group doesn't take as significant a step back if it takes a step back at all. I mean, it certainly takes a step back. in terms of finishing skill, but that's something

blues wingers have in spades. And Pew Souter's a really good, really underrated player, zero traits All-Star. And then you're adding a right-handed defender of a player type where if he hits, it's the exchange value that he'll have will be through the roof relative to what you surrendered for Bullduke. So I think the Souter deal oddly

really significantly influences my perspective on the Bullduke trade and makes me like it a lot more. from the blues perspective. Also with Souter, like, while I don't think that he's a 25 goal score who shoots 18% the way he did in the Canucks last year, he's proven in the years before that that he's still going to be above average finisher in terms of efficiency because he's going to be around 13-ish percent, even all told. And just adding that, like, you'd think that based on the season you had scoring 25 goals

with the lack of center options in the market, that would be the type of deal. I think people were bracing themselves for it's like, oh, it's going to be in the five. it's going to be long term and you're eliminating all that risk with it going two years at the four. And so it's a very nice fit for him. I think the West is shaping up to be very interesting, though, because the eight teams we had last year that made the playoffs in the West, I think there's some skepticism about the Blues just because they had such a remarkable run down the stretch. And I think that winning streak sometimes, like, there's a pushback to that where it's like, well, they're not going to have that winning streak again. But then you look at all the numbers,

which we talked about at the time, post-coaching change and what Jim Montgomery did for that team, and then especially once they brought in Camp Fowler and just gave themselves another defender who could play in that system, they really took off. And so they're not going to have that winning streak. And the team players that carried them. Yes.

You know, I mean, Bennington was playing big game hockey. Don't get me wrong. But it wasn't like Braden Shen was shooting 18% on that streak. It was Holloway. It was Broberg. It was, you know, Bull Duke, who they've lost now. but it was a whole cast of young players finding a different level in the second half of the season. That, to me, feels more like an arrival than a sort of spurious bounce.

And then you get to the Wilde, who haven't really done anything yet, right? They took on the last year of Teresanko's deal from the Red Wings. We're going to see what winds up unfolding with the Marco Rossi situation. But I feel like the bull case for them is as simple as they had so many injuries last year. Caprizov misses like half the year. Yeah. All these injuries in the blue line, Joel Erickson Eck miss is a bunch of time as well. And with better help from those guys, like, I feel pretty confident that their baseline is pretty high.

Now, the reason why it's interesting is you and I both agree that Utah is going to take a massive step. Oh, yeah. They're going to be part of that top eight. And so someone falling out, not to mention, you know, the Canucks kind of bringing back the band, essentially, and all the investments they made and kind of banking on how good Quinn, uses and Elias Pedersen coming back to some version of what he was previously. There's decent bets. Decent bets, but within the context of the competition and one of those teams having

a fallout and then if Anaheim in the Pacific takes a bit of a step, maybe not even a playoff team, but one that's not starting off poorly and just getting killed in pretty much every metric, it becomes very complicated. So let me, let me, the Anaheim thing, I saw they named their full coaching staff and Jay Woodcroft joining Joel Quenville as an assistant coach. I think Jay Woodcroft's an exceptional bench boss. Like I really think he was not responsible for what happened in Edmonton. I think Noblock obviously cleaned up some of their defensive issues, full credit to him.

I clearly think it was time for him to move on in Edmonton, but I also think it's bizarre that he hasn't gotten another job yet because I think he's a very impactful coach. And so now you add that to Joel Quenville. and I think we should feel pretty confident about the ducks taking the biggest step in terms of the quality of their coaching. I mean, the way that they played defensively, the numbers that they were surrendering, I honestly think the closest analogy that we have across the last decade of hockey is when the islanders went from Doug Waite to Barry Trots. And immediately the impact was way more significant than we could have anticipated. So I just, I'm just looking at that coaching staff. And obviously they had Granlin too. So they've stabilized their center depth in addition to that.

Even if we panned or I pan personally, the Zegra steel, you know, they have improved. They have so many outs in terms of their young players. But I just think the impact of going from Greg Cronin to Quenville Woodcroft, I think there's a chance that that is a more significant jump than we're prepared for. I think especially in light of the fact that, You know, down the stretch, it was easy not to notice because they were headed towards another losing season and everyone starts thinking about the playoffs. But like how good Leo Carlson and Carter Goce looked together when Goce just went on his scoring outburst. And then the step Lecombe took last year and the idea that, you know, we were so frustrated with how they were choosing to play in terms of the utilization of their young players.

And specifically like just not embracing having a lot of youth and speed and allowing them to play fast. make mistakes trying to kind of button it up and and be this team or not. And so what that could mean for even guys like Zellweger and Minchikov and not having one of them sitting in the press box at all times, like the ceiling in terms of those guys improving, I'm not sure it's going to result in a massive standings jump because already last year they probably outperformed what they should have been. But those style's real like, I'm just saying keep an open mind on the ducks. I know this is just me being like, Dimitri, join me and let's get hurt again.

I'm just saying there's only eight teams that can officially make the playoffs. But there's got to be some level of softness and fragility now with Los Angeles that we didn't anticipate. There is. Okay. There is. I don't want to be overreactionary though because I think what the frustration for that is what it does to cap your ceiling in terms of like, there should be a team. There should be a team that is challenging for the Stanley Cup and making it to the West Final and not losing in round one. and then I think dreams of that become severely dashed,

but the baseline is still so high in terms of the infrastructure and defensive system. I know obviously losing Gavricob is going to hurt a lot. Yeah. Replacing Spence with with Cece and Dumolin. Like that's a massive chain. They're a lot slower on the back end. They are.

They're a lot slower on the back. Now, they have the forward speed to make it work to an extent, but I mean, they are, they have seriously diminished. the team speed element that made them so interesting down the stretch last year. Yeah. Severely. Like compromised. So I'm just saying there's a level of fragility there that I didn't expect.

And not only that, the real issue is that they missed the opportunity of using this 25 million in caps space to put sort of rocket fuel in their boots and give them a real shot of surpassing Edmonton. Now, Edmonton's got its own issues, so maybe they can do it anyway. but I mean, I just think that they had an opportunity to like lap some of the other also ran or playoff hopeful tier teams in the West. And not only did they miss that opportunity, but I think they've taken some swings that risk compromising some of their most meaningful strengths. Yeah. No, it's, I mean, it was a disaster. There's no two ways around it. Yeah.

So that's the team, though. That's the team of the eight. Yeah. And that's not super helpful either for a team like Utah because that's the third spot in the Pacific. Right? I mean, so it's a, it's a sort of an interesting dynamic. I think that opens the door for Anaheim. I think that keeps the door open for Vancouver.

I don't know about Seattle, but. I don't know about Seattle. I like their center depth. Speaking of disaster off-season, do you want to talk about the blue jackets real quick? Sure. So they enter the off-season with. like 40 million in cap space. Yeah.

Before the draft, they've got the two firsts. You're looking at it, and part of it is because you look at their cap sheet, and they've got Wrenski, Severson, Monaghan, and Elvis, and those are the only players over 4 million on their books. And so you're viewing this blank canvas opportunity to build off of last year where I think they captured everyone's attention and imagination. They were so fond offensively. They fell within two points in making the playoffs.

You're looking at it thinking, all right, the young players in place are going to get better, and now you can add to that in supplement. it. And what they wind up doing is they invest heavily in bringing back Prob Rob and Fabro. They take on coil and wood from the abs and then they bring in Isaac Lundstrom. And that's the extent of it. They still have 20 million in cap space, but they're not going to be a cap ceiling team regardless. And there's a couple ways that I think it could like, it's a silver lining, but I think they could salvage it potentially with going along on Voronkov hopefully and not making the same mistake they made when they went three years with Morchenko last year and how much that's going to cost them.

because I think Voronkov's the type of player is like such a bull. After the Babrovsky-Pan-Thing-Panarin thing, though, do we think that Columbus is at a disadvantage when retaining Russian-born players? I don't think so. I think they can retain them. Give them the money and you've got the opportunity to do so. I think they're going to stay there. I also, I know we brought this up when we did our trade show,

but I feel like this is the time to really monetize, Cole Cillinger in particular out of all the young players. Because you look and it's like, all right, 22-year-old center. He's been in the league from such a young age. Obviously, at the draft pedigree, I think people would still view him very highly. And I'm not necessarily saying just like move on just for the sake of moving on. But that's the one player from all these young guys, including Marchenko, Varankov, Matechuk, like that group of guys.

But he's got to be the guy that returns you a premium piece. Yeah. You know, like you have 20 million cap space, you have Cillinger, you have still a start. stocked prospect system and a decent battery of draft picks. Like, I, for me anyway, I'm okay with them entering this season. I still think they have enough juice to challenge for a playoff spot in that division. I think they'll be around the bar. The steps that Fantillion and Kent Johnson took last season, I thought were remarkable.

Super fun to watch and real. They'd be your duck's argument because getting. out from under the thumb of Pascal Vincent and what that did for Marchenko and specifically just like playing big minutes and getting to do what they do best. And now you talk about that with a Greg Cronin example and being like, all right, all these guys are all of a sudden actually going to look as good as we hope they would. Yeah. And that be the big selling points. Right. So yeah. And so then maybe I'd also concede your point where it's like Columbus took that huge step, but couldn't quite get over the line. Maybe that's Anaheim's fate this year.

But I'm leaving the light on for them to actually do the thing. And I'm leaving the light on for Columbus to be a real problem in the Eastern Conference. My thing with Proverov at the end of the day that I keep sort of thinking through and coming back to is the market as it unfolded made no sense. Because outcomes and player decisions were shaped more by a desire to remain comfortable, right? Happy and where their stuff was as opposed to really maximizing their earning. potential, earning power. And so as a result, you see all these insane outcomes. I mean, we now live in a world where on contracts signed within 48 hours of one another, Granland gets 900K more than Aaron Eckblatt. Like, Grandland was like a buyout candidate 18 months ago.

Aaron Eckblad's a number one overall defenseman back-to-back Stanley Cup winning right-handed D playing huge minutes. I know. I feel like the term though is a big part of that. I feel like the term is a big part of that. The term is... Like no one was giving Granland eight years. No, but Granlin's 33. Yeah. Eckblad's 29.

He's a 47 year old. Eggblad was 23 at 14. Or 33 at 14. He's been in his 30s for two decades. I mean, for me, that's a reason to go along. Point is, is like, there's all sorts of outcomes that you can point at that don't make much sense. Because players fundamentally did not go bag chasing. They wanted to play for winning teams.

they wanted to play in markets they were comfortable with. They wanted to stay home. They didn't want to move their stuff. And when thinking about sort of the implications of that and thinking through things like Proverov, right? It's like if Proverov hits the market, right? He's one of the few guys willing to move, right? And, you know, Gavakov clearly wanted to go.

Even Gavrokov's number is seven looks a lot better than Proverov's 8.5, especially because he's a much better skater and was a more impactful defensive player last year. But Gavrikov also took a bit of a haircut to choose his location. Right. Right. You're just not seeing many true mercenaries willing to go elsewhere and maximize their money. But what we effectively are seeing, and even with Gavikov 7, is what was a $5.5 million piece? Hey, he's not an offensive player, but he's a really good top four defenseman.

Just like throw two and a half million more on it. You know, what was a $2.5 million? physical third pair D, like Kevin Ball or who were the two gentlemen that the king signed again? Remind me, because they have all my favorites. The Kings? The Kings, yeah. Edmondson and C.C. Oh, God.

But don't they also have another one of those guys on the roster? Edminton. Well, they have Edminton, C.C. and Dumblin now. Right. Dumlin and Cici. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, those guys were not far removed from those guys being like two, two and a half million dollar players, and now they're four million dollar players. players. So it's like you're you're basically just paying

Fabian Zetterland was a $2 million player in the flat cap era. Now he's a $4 million player. Ryan Donato, that's a $2 million profile in the middle six. Now it's a $4 million. So you're basically paying a $2 million surplus anywhere, whatever you're signing for the most part. And when I think about Proverov, it's like, at least if I'm paying a top pair defenseman 2 million more than their worth, or a top four defenseman 2 million more than their worth, at least I end it, with a top four defenseman, as opposed to one of those guys the king signed? Yeah, I don't know.

I'm not sold on it. I feel like the risk, like the player he is right now I'm already dubious of, and then now you're talking about it stretching into his 30s until his age 35 season, and the risk that entails, like if there's a drop off from a skating ability, which there certainly will be, I think ultimately, like, just because, other organizations are making questionable decisions. That's not justification for you if you want to be a smart organization to be falling in line with them. I get there's an element of supply and demand in the market dictating certain things.

And like if you don't want to pay this guy, there's not many options to go around and someone else will. And so you miss out on that opportunity. But what I keep coming back to the Blue Jackets is like I think they're ultimately still going to be good and fun and competitive next year. But there's a chance as we've been frustrated with the devils, obviously in a different scale the past. two years, the frustration of like the ceiling of like, this is your opportunity to turn this into something potentially special. And I think that's why we're so excited about Utah because they've been approaching it the right way and they're showing a lot of those signs. And there's no reason why the bluejackets obviously in a different situation with ownership and market can't

follow in step with that as opposed to trying to be the 14th best team in the league. It's fair. But just like we had the cash crunch in 2020 and the cap crunch. during the flat cap era. We entered this offseason and saw what it looks like when the NHL deals with a talent crunch where there's too much cap space in the system and not enough good players to spend on it. And as a result, you saw teams, you know, make very few trades.

We saw teams holding fast to NHL-level players. We saw young players like Don and Kesselring have more buying power than multiple first-round picks. You know, so it was a lot of, a sort of fascinating shift here. And in that environment, you know, just retaining talent, I think generally speaking is a better thing, is it's a better outcome, even if the outcome is inefficient than losing that talent without return.

Hmm. You know, that's why I find what the Red Wings have done really interesting. Not only because it runs so counter to what Steve Iserman did the past couple off seasons of like spending recklessly with a lot of term attached. He made a good bet on the defense. That's what that was. Well, look at, look at how. That was like floored me yesterday.

Look at all of their deals though. Every single move they made, including with their own RFAs. Now, they weren't the caliber of RFA of Cider and Raymond the way they have been in the past and what Edvenson and Casper will be the next two summers. But all these guys, whether it's Bergren or Albert Johansson or Soderblom, and then going out and adding your guy Mason Appleton and JVR and Jacob Bernard Docker, all of those are one or two year deals and the way

the idea that they're kind of I guess budgeting for the future when the cap is 104 then 113 and all of a sudden you have 40 or 50 million dollars worth in cap space with your core locked up with the top four or five guys on the one hand it's a scary proposition

based on the way we've seen Steve Iserman use cap space in the past on the market on the other though I think if you're not going to be in that inner circle of teams that might be the right way to do it as opposed to bringing on guys with term just for the sake of filling out your roster in a way. And so I think what they did is very interesting. Obviously, it's a TBD in terms of what they wind up generating from that next summer and two summers from now,

but at least opens the door to doing something more impactful and meaningful than what they've been doing previously. I think I would have liked to see them bet on at least one of Soder Blom or Bergerin, though. I would have liked to see them bet long on one of those guys. That's why it's interesting, though, because they're a team that has to, $1 million cap space. Right. So, like, they're positioned to buy extra years on those types of guys if they want to, if they valued them or if they thought that was the best way to go about it.

But instead, they treated it as if they were a cap team, kind of like what the have Zid with Milinski. It's like, we're just going to go one year just to keep the AAB down and maintain the flexibility. They didn't even necessarily need that, but they chose to do so anyways. And so it might be revealing in terms of their planning, yeah, the way they view those players internally or they're planning for what they're going to do next. Can we shout out the Utah Mammoth before we wind down? I mean, we can't do a show without talking about it, Mammoth.

I just think the young team that feels like they need to add guys who know how to win the Hardo summer coming off of a season in which Utah played great and took a significant step but just couldn't get over the hump consistently in one goal games. I think that's like a team building step that we see fail and fail spectacularly time and time again. and so seeing Utah bring in Brandon Tanev and Nate Schmidt, in addition to Vitech Vanec, which is whatever, just like a low risk, goalie depth ad. And I think a decent one given how the season ended with them absolutely playing the wheels off Bamalca. At the very least in doing it, those deals are manageable,

both in terms of cost and term, and they play into an amplify. this identity that Utah's been able to sort of develop as like the warp speed team in the Western Conference. And I just think, you know, I'm so used to hating those contracts. And then Utah did it with a level of intention and thought

that I thought was a really good signal or indicator that they kind of know who they are and have a sense of where they want to go here, which I find, you know, more promising. or at least as promising as I would if they'd landed, you know, a bigger star than Peturca. Well, I think the distinction that's important, though, is, like, rather than those types of deals that are generally hinging upon these, like, nebulous contributions. Right.

From players, like, both these guys have such specific utility in complementing what they already have in place, like Nate Schmidt just using him on the third pair in manage minutes where he's going to get supported defensively, but his. decision making is going to get to shine and he's going to get the forwards, the puck in space is going to be very valuable. And then what Tana was going to do on the penalty kill and like a fourth line dog role with Stenlin, for example, and then keeping it to three years as opposed to giving Tanner to know five years.

Like I think that's, there's levels to it as well, right? Right. Like, and so I generally kind of shudder at those deals, but I thought both of them were perfectly fine for them given where they're at. And they obviously made their big splash with Paterka previously. they're in a spot as I talked about yesterday where they're probably going to enter the year with cap space and a bunch of draft picks.

And so if they do live up on the hype and they're good, they're going to be pretty well positioned to take another in-season swing when someone does shake loose or become available and there's certainly going to be more talent that's theoretically available in the trade market than there is right now. Yeah. I mean, that teams

that team's really well positioned and if either of their six foot four Russian players are ready right off the bat, look out. All right, buddy. That's all for today. That's all for the season as well. As I said off the top, it is the season finale, which is very... What a blast, man. Thank you so much for having me all year long. I really looked forward to doing those Sunday specials. You know, honestly, one of my favorite things to do, it was the

football Sunday of work commitments. I mean, you're just hanging out. We'd be doing it anyways. Now we just got mics in front of our faces and we're recording and we're not swearing, but otherwise we're pretty much having the exact conversations we'd be having otherwise. So, no, man, the pleasure was all mine. I think the listeners enjoyed it a lot. It's bitter sweet because on the one hand, I really want to go enjoy the sun. And I've been doing like 14 to 16 hour work days the past month. And so I'm pretty punch drunk at this point. But on the other, I'm really proud of the work we did. And this is always a blast. So I'm already eagerly awaiting next season. You got anything to plug here on the way out? No, I'm going to go off

for summer vacation. So check out the athletic where I'll occasionally post. And then Canucks Talk is on hiatus now for the for the summer as well. So I'll see you in September. I hope you all enjoy your summer vacations and spend time with families and explore the world and get outside and get primed and ready to watch hockey again with Dim and I in October. All right. If you want to help us out after a fun season of shows, you can join the PDOCast Discord. I'll still be popping in there throughout the summer every once in a while and moving forward. It'll be the best place to stay up to date with future scheduling and programming notes. And then give us some five-star reviews. If you haven't yet, let the bosses know you enjoyed our work

this season and you want us back in your lives. ASAP, I hope everyone has a great summer. And for one final time for at least a little while, thank you for listening to the HockeyPediocast streaming on the SportsNet Radio Network.