The Hockey PDOcast - The Stars Coaching Change and Most Interesting Teams To Watch This Offseason

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Sean Shapiro to react to the Stars making a coaching change today, why they felt like the Pete DeBoer era had run its course, where his next landing spot should be, and whether there's bigger personnel moves coming in Dallas. Then Harman Dayal comes on to answer some mailbag questions from listeners about the most interesting teams to watch this offseason, and lessons to be learned from the success the Panthers and Oilers have had the past couple of years. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey P.D.O.cast with your host, Dmitri Philip Ovid. Welcome to the Hockey Pee-O-Cast. My name is Dmitra Philpovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Sean Schiapiro. Sean, what's going on, man? Oh, nothing. Nothing at all. I was a calm Friday afternoon. I'm not really sure why I'm here, actually. It's, uh, yeah, it's certainly a unexpected one. What are we talking about today, bud? Well, it is the day of we're recording this on a Friday, early afternoon, late morning, I guess my time getting ready for game two of the Stanley Cup final. And of course, before the weekend, the stars, I think somewhat expected or at least speculated after how their season ended, relieved Pete DeBurr of his duties with one year left on his contract, I believe. And as soon as that news broke, I, I shuffled my plans. I'm having Harmon on.

We were planning a full show to do a bit of a Pete DeBurrude. audio cast mailbag from the from the discord and we'll still do that on the back half but I threw up the bad signal you're our stars correspondent despite the postseason appearances from guys like robert tiffin and david castillo I knew I had to have you on to talk about this so I throw out the bad signal you answered you're a hawk commodity as as we alluded to you've been quite busy you did a hit on what chaos as well earlier today we're going to break this all down over the next 25 minutes kind of how we got to this point how this all unfolded especially considering I think think the you know the uh the doomed vote of confidence from the owner earlier as well uh which

doesn't necessarily mean much if you've ever followed uh how these things unfold in an hl circles but um yeah what are your what are your initial takeaways on the stars deciding to go this direction because on the one hand obviously um you know hitting your ceiling a little bit similar to what's happened out east with carolina maybe less um you know optically ugly in terms of at least winning some games along the way and looking like they belonged in those series, but losing in three straight Western Conference finals, back-to-back ones to the Oilers specifically is certainly frustrating. On the other hand, I think if you pulled 25 other teams in the league probably, they'd love for this to be their fate to be winning multiple rounds every year

and playing late into the spring slash summer and being in that inner circle of contenders. yet Jim Nell clearly decided that wasn't enough for this organization. They're going to try to get over the hump. And I imagine we can loop in some of the expected roster changes as well. We'll see in the makeover this offseason and how they're going to try to accomplish and facilitate that. But it starts with this coaching change and getting a new voice in there. What are your thoughts on them ultimately choosing this as the course of action? Yeah, I mean, we've got to start with how this happened, right?

it's and it's not that he pulled Jake Ottinger in game five. It is honestly, it has nothing to do with, like obviously it has something to do with that because that would lead to the part I'm about to speak about, but it's not that he pulled Jake Ottinger.

It's not the concept of the poll and Jim Nill has said, and multiple people have said, you know what? It's the coach's job. He pulled the goalie. That's fine. It's the aftermath that really planted the seeds of descent and then swayed to Jim Nill's mind

because Tom Galardi speaks within 12 that speaks pretty soon after game 5 and says it's it's lunacy to even think about changing Pete DeBore he's one of top three to five coaches in the NHL I think was the words it was the quote and um but Pete debor pulled jac gotinger and then after the game publicly decided to back over him a bit and then back up and then do it again in in the blame game and in what happened in game five when it came to he's lost six or seven of six of the last seven to the edmonton and that's a large sample size. Now, that happens.

And then we get to Saturday, and the stars do their season locker room clean out. And Jake is in, Jake meets with the media in one room. And then in that same room, Pete DeBoer comes in and speaks about 35, 45 minutes later. And Pete says he still hasn't found the time to speak to Jake Ottinger. And that's a pretty bad optic and example of,

for, I don't know how you don't find the time to, talk to Jake Ottinger when you're both in the same building, you both have each other's vote number, like it's, it's a bad, it was, it was very poorly managed interpersonal communication by Pete DeBorg. The thing that he also did, and this is one of those like outside things, he's like, yes, Jake Ottinger's a goalie, but Jake Ottinger is basically a star as de facto assistant captain, right? Like, if goalies are allowed to wear a letter, like actually on their jersey, unlike the little painted C thing that happened with Luongo on the mask, Ottinger would actually

probably be one of the stars captains. He's the guy who, when it comes to the stars are a big golf team. Everyone on that team golfs together. Jake, there's the guy who usually organizes it. When the Finns go to, Emily Kaplan pulled this note out, and I confirmed it with Jake right before game five. Like, when the Finns, when the Stars Five Finns look for saunas on the road, Jake is the guy who is finding the saunas for them.

Like, so it wasn't just that Jake's not Jake, Jake is the social, committee and planner. And so, Jake never poisoned the well on Pete DeBore. Jake never said, oh, well, it never went and did anything. But when everyone else sees this guy getting treated poorly, everyone else then all of a sudden decide to start airing every other grievance with them. And it's not just Brendan Smith and Matt Dumba being upset they were scratched the entire playoffs. There's other guys as well that have voices of consequence that when they're meeting with Stars Management, it starts to all come together. And that's what plants the seeds in Jim Nill's mind. And then Tom Golardi's mind that, hey, we have to have a conversation about this. That leads to the

conversation. They have the conversation Wednesday. And that's when they sit down. And now I would have loved to be on a flying the wall in that conversation. But knowing how Jim operates, I can imagine the biggest question was, can Pete DeBore win a Stanley Cup for the Dallas Stars? And they came out of that meeting with the answer in their mind being no they made that decision this morning they let Pete DeBoer go and now they kind of move on for now they have to kind of move on from that it's a fascinating spot because it's it's one of those things where Jim is a GM who's in the past has gone and said to me each year there's a successful GM gets your team to the conference finals any of a chance to get there the optics have changed this is this is a team where you can't lose

three conference finals in a row and not even make a run. If they have win any of those, I think obviously Pete DeVore is still a coach of Dallas right now. Yeah, I think it's a good microcosm of the deterioring relationship, right? It's not just an isolated event, but kind of, I think, how it all unfolded and came together, sort of the backdrop of it. And obviously a coach who in the past has had interesting dealings, I guess, with his handling of goalies. And in particular, you know, this one, whether it's in an, elimination game at home, making the panic pull seven minutes in. But I think in particular,

the comments you referenced afterwards justifying the decision and kind of doubling down on it. I mean, on the one hand, you have Audenger, who's, what, 26 years old, he's about to start this mega extension that runs eight years at a point two five per. And you look at the specifics of that deal and the stars are going to be paying him $10 million in actual salary over the next two seasons. And he's the franchise goalie moving forward. And you have the, this organizational commitment to him. And another hand, you have a coach who has been there for three years. There's one year left on his deal.

Who do you think is ultimately going to win that power struggle and that battle? I think that's pretty one-sided in that sense. I, you know, I mentioned the three years remarkably before being fired, before being fired, Pete DeBarre had been the seventh longest tenured coach in the league, which is also a great microcosm, I think, for the shelf life of coaches in the league. And we've spoken about that in the past. I actually think he was hired originally one day before Paul Maurice was by the Panthers. And I'd say I'll miss looking or those camera shots of him during games of him looking like he's perpetually received awful news and is trying to kind of process it in real time regardless of the score or what's happening in the situation.

They could be winning a series or losing a game. It won't matter. He'll still have that same look stapled on his face. but the reason why I say I won't miss it is because I think he won't be out of work long, obviously. Now it's interesting a lot of the teams who had vacancies or were making coaching changes have already filled their slots. But he's clearly a highly regarded coach who has done a lot of winning during this time. I mean, you just look at his track record with what, four different teams now over the past 14 years. And he's made it to two finals with two of those teams.

He's lost in the conference final in six of the last eight. years. The stars with him as a coach the last three years were first in regular season point percentage. The only teams that have won more playoff games in that time are the two teams still currently playing for the Stanley Cup. And so that's a pretty nice little resume for him that I think a lot of teams would love to have. I'm curious for your take on. Obviously, this is all still very fresh and we're going to need to mull it over. And I'm sure he himself is going to want to take some time to sort of process all of this and figure out what's next for him. I can't help but feel.

And I know that, you know, Ken Holland comes in in L.A. And immediately gives the vote of confidence to Jim Hiller, but based on Hiller's performance this postseason against the Oilers, which was probably the single worst coaching performance I can remember from anyone considering all of his ill-advised decisions and the personnel they have and how close they've been themselves. I feel like Peter Boer should probably be on a plane to L.A. as we speak.

I think the other one that I was kind of mulling over at first blush, I know Jared Bednar is going to be back with the abs, but it feels like that relationship has kind of been slowly deteriorating as well, and obviously a division rival certainly, but for all to talk about how DeBurr gives you the ceiling and that stat I just rattled off about him losing in the conference finals every year, you look at this abs core and the years they've had McKinnon and McCarer during this era, they've gotten to that conference finals themselves just one time.

in those seven years or whatever. Now, when you win the cup that time, that absolves a lot of those sins. But just getting there would I think be a step in the right direction for that organization, not to mention that DeBurr himself has beaten the abs, what, four times in that seven years stretch in the playoffs? And if anyone has a good understanding of the pressure points for that team

and that personnel group or kind of how to deconstruct them and then build them back up, I imagine he'd be a good starting point for that. So I wouldn't expect anything that happened with the abs or Bednar immediately. But if that continues, and I'm not sure to bear is going to be out of a job for that long. Although if he does stick some time off, he's welcome to I know ESPN and TNT will probably come calling, but he's welcome to come be a co-host on the PDEOCAS as well if he wants to

just do a little bit of a media tour. But that would be an interesting one as well for him. Have you given any thoughts to kind of what's next for Pete here or what a natural landing spot for him to be as he looks for another job? Yeah, I got LA circled in my mind. not from, I don't think they would do it. I don't think Ken Holland's a guy who would do it this summer,

but it's like November, December, you're, you probably can say, you see if you, you're basically looking for the one trap door to open up and do it maybe with, if you're L.A. in particular, Colorado one's intriguing. The other, it's, with, with, with, with, with, with, it's interesting with, to connect back to one other thing you said, have like you watch him and look like he's got in the worst news he ever had. I know someone who,

I spoke to someone who said, if not for Steve Spot, Pete DeBore would probably never smile. So I was, so wherever, it will be interesting to see wherever Pete does go. And it was odd that Jim Mill held his availability to say and said all of the assistants still have another year. And so we're planning on keeping all of them right now. That's pretty nice lip service. But I would imagine that wherever, just like when Todd McClellan showed up in Detroit, he wasn't going anywhere without Trent Yonnie. Everyone has their guy, right? So wherever Pete goes, I'm imagining Steve's spot will probably go too.

But I think you're really on to something with the LA one, and that's the one that sticks out the most to me. From the fit and helping them get over what they've needed to and knowing how Jim Nill and Ken Holland are such good friends, right? And it's just how often in this business do you have one old boss be like, well, I had to let you go here, Pete, but like I wouldn't like, really, they, apparently then met at 9 a.m. this morning. I wouldn't have been surprised. I know we didn't do it, but I can easily picture a world where Jim Nill says, by the way, my buddy, here's my buddy Ken's number. No reason. Just here, here it is. Yeah. I think he's going to be fine. Yeah, I think he's going

to be fine. I think, I think Peter Burr, I mean, this is a hot take. I just rattled off how his teams just keep winning, even though they obviously haven't won the ultimate prize. I think he's a really good coach. I mean, I think as a tactician and kind of like a planner in particular, he's clearly a sharp thinker based on his background. I think, you know, you can probably speak to this even better than I can. But in conversations with people within that organization, I think he does a really good job of fully integrating whatever. resources are provided to them, whether it's the analytics or the off or the on ice training away from game action, all that sort of stuff. Like I think is just sort of someone who as the bench boss beyond just sitting there during games and calling time out or figuring out what lines are going to go out there, like kind of managing all of that. And there's so many different moving parts to being an NHL head coach. I think he does all of that really well, setting the template for kind of the team's infrastructure on the ice. You know, and I say all that as someone who loves the post screen grabs of him looking like

he's just received that bad news and poke in fun of him, poking fun at him. It's all coming from a place of love, certainly. I guess one fair criticism, and we saw this just unfold now, and we talked about how he handled on Jure, has been his ability in some of these pressure-packed situations, and maybe that's why they keep bumping into that ceiling, kind of what happens when the going gets rough in of those playing in playoff situations and how they come unglued a little bit or maybe start to show some seams along the way in that process. I think he's a clear floor lifter for a team and a lot of teams could use that. And if you just give yourselves enough chances to compete for a Stanley Cup and be one of the last four teams standing,

that's a pretty good starting point. And you're eventually going to get over the hump. So I think that would be interesting. I don't know. Like, what are you coming away from this? And obviously you, you know, you've covered him at least from a, from a slight distance here in your coverage of the stars, kind of the job he's done. And it's sort of where he rates within the coaching circle and kind of what he could provide for a team and what you think ultimately if he is your bench boss. Yeah.

I think Pete's the way, if you wanted to look, compare it to a business thing, like he's a really good CEO type where he's someone where he goes in, formulates a plan, knows what he wants to do. He does listen to others and takes ideas and takes things in, but it's got to be from someone who has earned his respect. And I think that's one of the things that Pete runs into sometimes. That is one of his, I've talked to some other people who've worked with him before, and on his staff, like, if Pete has earned, if you've earned Pete's respect, you have his ear, but it's not very easy to earn his respect. And that's why I kind of compare him to that CEO type and everything like that.

So there's definitely a, if there's a learning lesson for Pete DeBore to go to his next job, based off people I've talked to that have worked with him, it be a little bit more open to maybe the little guys, even though they don't may not have the most oppressive resume, maybe they still have an idea you should also listen to. That's something where that might be a little bit of criticism that maybe Pete can take and become a better coach. not that I can tell him at a bitter coast, but that's kind of one of the things I've heard from that part. It does come down to,

he adjusts well, and I've said this on your show, I think, like he adjusts well from game to game, and we've seen it in series, and he just, but it's the, he needs the time to, he needs the time to evaluate and retreat and go back to things, right? And it was one of those things where, I know when, so him and Paul Maurice gave me this example because they were coached together and they're close and everything like that. And Paul gave me this example from when they coached together where Paul said, look, I was the guy when we coached together.

I was the guy that whenever something happened, I was the one that jumped and had to try and do something right away every single time. I had to jump and do something right away. I had to jump in and change it and do this right away. Pete was the guy who always said, oh, wait, wait, we do this. And they had this good give and take when they coached together. And that's always stuck with me where there's that kind of happy medium between those two that Pete either needs to find himself to be a better in-game adjuster or have someone on his staff. And it's not Steve Spott.

Steve Spot is a little bit more of his kind of yes man guy who makes him smile. The guy, you need to have someone else on your staff who's going to push him to, change more in games. And then that would be for the Kings, I think getting to the Western Conference final would be a success with what's happened in recent years. But if you're Ken Holland and you're looking at what's happened with Dallas and if you're going to say, hey, we're going to hire Pete DeBore, I think you look at it from that perspective of we're going to hire Pete,

but we also need to make sure when we're building this out. We're building it out in a way where someone can be that guy with the cattle prod to be like, hey, you know what? It's five minutes. our only change in the game can't be changing the goalie seven minutes into the game. We also might want to look at how we're not generating offense too. Like I think that's the, that's all of a sudden, like someone who can push him that way that he also respects at the same time.

So that's, but if the Kings hire him and it's funny because we're just talking about it, like it's almost a certainty now that he's the next coach of the Kings. If the Kings hire him, they'll get them to the next step where they need to go and that'll be great for L.A. Well, the irony is not lost on me. team that keeps losing to the oilers and struggles to get over that hump would be looking for their solution, the guy who just got fired because he kept losing to the oilers. So I guess there are levels to this in terms of doing in the Western Conference final as opposed

to round one. But I think that's a really good point, kind of comparing and contrasting the two coaching styles. And I think you can see that with the way Paul Maurice adjusts and kind of handles certain in-game situations as opposed to DeBurneeding a bit of that downtime, I guess, to, reflect and you're ultimately not really. There are adjustments, certainly within a series from game to game, but specifically within the game element, sometimes that being lagging a little bit.

Let's close out this conversation by looking at the accompanying moves I think we'd expect from the stars this off season in terms of the roster overall. Obviously, a bunch of the key names and core players are assigned, right? Then when they bring in Ranch and in, Art of the Vision was not just this year's playoff run, but getting the eight years moving forward. they re-uped Wyatt Johnson that same day as well. And so got a lot of their legwork done. Have heard a bunch of Jason Robertson rumors and his name kind of swirling around some of these trade talks.

And generally when there's some smoke there, there's something to it. Now, I think part of it is a lot of other teams out there looking at the situation and being like, well, if they're not going to want to pay him for its next deal after this one expires and it's going to be a big ticket, considering some of the other names they've already extended. we'd love to have Jason Robertson. I imagine that's why we're hearing his name a lot. But kind of what do you expect from the stars in terms of the magnitude of the moves and what this roster is going to look like heading into next year, a bunch of big name players who might not necessarily be at a certain stage of their career where it's commensurate with what they used to be.

And so maybe that'll allow them to come back in terms of their salary demands. But I'm curious for your take on kind of what this is going to look like and whether there's going to be other dominoes to fall here in terms of it being. and I know you wrote about this potentially the end of the Jamie Ben era as well, kind of changing some of the leadership with this team and whether the extent of it is just the coach and otherwise it can be more of the same or whether this is going to be more widespread in terms of the ramifications

and the changes that Jim Nell orchestrates here. I think the leadership is going to be largely the same. Obviously the head coach is different, but everyone well, Jim, Jim Nill and Jamie Ben clearly disagree with my take on the Jamie Ben era and when it should or shouldn't end. That is, that is, their comments have consistently gone against what my view is it. So we are separate camps on that. So I don't think, I think Jamie Benn will be back.

That's not going to, the evidence points to the contrary of my opinion on that. And I think the other thing that kind of comes into play here is that Jason Roberts thing, the thing that comes into play is, and whether it's the move to get the piece or whether it's up the cap space to do something else. The star's internal belief and how they kind of look at things from my understanding right now is how do you get a bit, to put it diplomatically, how do you get a bit tougher and play a playoff style, right? That's a bit of the, that's a little bit of the internal talking points, right?

And it's a team that has gone through some pretty wild swings on style of play before because of how they of reacting to things. And so if Jason Robertson is getting moved or traded or whatever, whatever term we look at it for it, I think it comes down to, it would have to probably be part of a move that actually, whether it's the trade itself, or it's the cab space it open to actually find that right shot D

that actually makes them a bit quote unquote tougher there, tougher to play against and it makes them move the puck better all at the same time. So that's what has to happen with the Jason Robertson thing. Like Jim Nill is not just going to give Jason Robertson away because he's sick of him. It's going to have to be part of that second step. So I think there's a very real chance, though. A lot of this could be much of the same team rolling it back just with a new voice in the room. There could be with a new voice running things as the head coach.

They really liked Mikhail Granlin's game. They're going to retry and re-sign resign Grandland. I know Dushain had a tough. post-season, but they seem to like him as well. So there seems to be a little bit of that kind of feeling of for the stars, it could be very boring of maybe just changing the head coach, just changing the voice at the top is all you really need for some of these guys to deliver in the playoffs.

I personally don't think that's right, but I think that's something that is a real possibility here with when it comes to how the stars approach this and what they look like next year. Yeah, I imagine he's going to want to do over from from last off season, right? I think it's pretty clear there's a desperate need to overhaul the blue line and just add people forget being tougher and

the 5-1-5 offense grinding to a halt, yet again is reflective of this, just getting guys when you compare them to what that series look like against the Oilers who went out and took that shot on Klingberg, obviously played Kulak in a larger role without at home available for the first four games, Walman and the impact he had as a deadline ad,

just guys who can efficiently get the puck to their forward so it's not completely Hayskinnan and Harley or Bust and I think the state of that right side in particular was clearly an issue the entire time but by the end of it was just such an albatross and you know an abomination quite frankly so they're going to need to do something

you and I have spoken about this not to speculate too much but I think the money situation at least for next season certainly becomes much more manageable if Sagan is on LTIR and having that 9.85 to work with I imagine considering how hard he's worked to get himself back on the ice this season. He's going to want to keep playing certainly,

but we know the challenge is there for him moving forward, kind of how it was a band-aid just to get back out there and perform as admirably as he did, given the state of his health. I imagine whether it's cap-dumping Marchman and his 4.5-0 next year or Dumbah, certainly, who wasn't even trying into the lineup by the end of the season at 3.75. There's some moving parts there. But yeah, we're considering the fast.

that, you know, because of the way they structure the contracts with both Robertson and Harley being RFA's up for big deals next summer and sort of trying to get ahead of that. I imagine that's part of the logic here. I'm of two minds of it, right? Because I love Robertson as a player. And I think evaluating him based on this season is tricky because he's just coming off such a cursed season individually, right? He has that foot surgery right before the year, starts slow, has only five goals and 15 points,

his first 26 games from that point on to close the regular season 30 goals 65 points and 56 games only pasturnack and dry sidle scored more goals than him in that time then he plays a completely meaningless game 82 of the regular season where they have nothing to gain he gets hurt he misses the entirety of the first round comes back slow working himself back in a shape and by the end of it a massive silver lining for me was how involved and active he was offensively towards the end of that earlier series where he accounts for four of the five goals they score in the final four games, was getting many more looks. And for as great of a player as he had been previously, I do think a developing storyline

for him was because of some of his limitations as a skater, when space is even more difficult to come by and offensive opportunities are in the playoffs, his shot and chance rates had been declining in previous postseason runs. And so for him to put together those performances, even though. the team itself struggled, I think was huge. And still clearly a player who's 26 already has two 40 goal campaigns, had that 109 point season, provides at the wing position a ton of defensive value,

where I believe he's like a 98th percentile, even strength impact defensively. And so there's so many selling points for him as a player and certainly someone who it's tough to envision if you move them, even if you do so to facilitate improving the blue line, It's difficult to imagine them being better off for it. So it'll be a really tricky situation for them to navigate, and I'm very curious.

I imagine a lot of teams are hoping that there's some sort of panic move ensuing or some sort of second move beyond the coaching change that the gym nail is going to try to pull off this summer. All right, Sean, we've got to get out of here. I'm going to bring Harmon in to do a little mailbag to close out today's show. You got anything to plug? I know you wrote about today's news and kind of some of the stuff behind the scenes. Let the listeners know a little bit about that.

yeah go I site shapshotshockey dot com I've got a bunch of stuff on there I was originally planning and writing some other stuff that'll get bounced back to next week now because of this Pete DeBoer's situation but we check out there

we got an addition to this I had something on taxes yesterday which is always a fun topic to write about and you got a couple things coming up on I'll be attending next week I'll be attending actually the coaches each year the coaches site, this big coaching site.

They do a conference in Ann Arbor about 25 minutes from my house. So I'll be attending that next week where a bunch of out of work coaches are, or a bunch of coaches are working. But Greg Cronin is amongst the presenters too. So I will have some interesting things coming to that. So Shapshotshockey.com, check that out. And then always give a quick plug to the guys over at Elite Prospects just because the draft guides out and that team over there has literally poured their sweat and tears and blood into that.

Wow, Greg Cronin talking about coaching. That's quite the selling point there. All right, Sean, good stuff. Thank you for answering the bat signal. That was fun. I'm going to have you back on again soon, certainly as we get into off-season mode in a couple weeks here. Thank you for coming on. Thank you to the listeners for listening. We will take a little break here and then we come back. We'll bring Harmon on And we're going to close out today's episode by answering a couple mailback questions. You're listening to the HockeyPedocast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. All right, we're back here in the HockeyPedocast. I've let Sean Shabiro go, bringing in Harmon Dyle here to answer some mailback questions from the Discord.

And kind of along the same themes, I just ended the conversation with Sean talking about Jason Robertson and potential moves for the stars this offseason. We've got some fun questions here from the listeners. In that same spirit, looking ahead to the offseason, some of the most interesting teams. I know in your coverage of the athletic harm, you've written about this as well. So it's going to be a good conversation for us to end this show with. Let's go with this question from Panda, one of my favorite Discord subscribers and contributors on the PDA. Discord asks, which team is set up for a good off season and which team is set up for a disaster off season? I know you wrote about the most interesting teams or kind of teams that have the most resources or ambition to potentially make moves this off season.

Let's go through some of the bear and the bull cases here for some of these teams in terms of what we expect from their activity, how they're going to leverage some of those resources, what you'd expect from them. What's the first team that kind of comes to mind for you here as the most interesting one to watch this off season? Yeah, there are two ones, one contender, one team that's more in a rebuild phase trying to become a playoff team. to me the hurricanes have by far the most cap space and trade assets of any active contender. We're talking about nearly $30 million in cap space with 20 players already signed. Plus, from a trade capital perspective, they already own all of their first round picks and have two extra from Dallas as a result of the Mika-Ranton in trade one in 2026 and one in 2028. So they just have a ton of ammo to go star chasing, address whatever needs they'd like,

to really upgrade. And it particularly stands out because I was felt that this season, as much as it's been characterized as a really disappointing exit, I was felt this was a transition season for them anyway, because Orlov and Burns are still making a lot of money. And while those guys are helpful defensemen, they were kind of bridging the gap for some of their young, up-and-coming defensemen to be ready to make the jump to the NHL.

And now that the Orlov and Burns money, is going to be off the books this summer. They have a ton of trade and cap resources to sort of go big game hunting potentially. But as part of the Hurricanes conversation, I think they're also in a really unique spot because there are a lot of teams that have resources, but they have an urgency to, they have to spend now.

Like they aren't at the level where they need to be. And so they're heavily incentivized to spend regardless. And we know that this summer's crop of reagents and the players that are available on the trade market, there's not a huge supply of high end players. So the hurricanes are a unique spot because they can essentially be in on any opportunity that they want. But they can also afford to be patient. And they don't have to spend all of their resources this summer, which I think puts them in a really advantageous position to upgrade their team over the next six to 18 months.

Yeah, I think they are at a perfect nexus of desire and ambition, considering they've been one of the final four teams left in the playoffs for a couple of years now and the feasibility of actually accomplishing it, right? I think a lot of teams probably entered the offseason wanting to meaningfully improve their teams, but either because of a cap bind or just having already blown a lot of their resources, the amount of doors open to them are necessarily there. That's clearly not the case here. I think there's some pretty obvious upgrades as well, right? Whether it's an, and it sounds like they're working on bringing Brent Burns back on a team-friendly deal. And I still think he certainly, if you play lower in the lineup, has utility. It was particularly good on the PK, but just not having them eating up huge minutes on the first pair with Slavin and upgrading. That spot is a very obvious one.

You mentioned the sort of bridging of the two timelines on the blue line with what we saw from Nikision towards the end of that Panthers series, what we saw from Moro and the regular. season in the 14 games or whatever he played having those guys on ELCs playing minutes next year. And then obviously the Stanko, in addition with him being on the ELC as well, helps enable a lot of this, the prospect pool, which is still, you know, very envious for a lot of teams in terms of the number of guys they can dip into without necessarily even sacrificing their top prospects and still having a lot of appeal to sellers. And then the draft picks that you mentioned and having that stars first. The cap space is interesting too, right?

because they're slated at like $28 million or so now, but I imagine if they were to make a big trade, it would probably involve Kotkinemis 4.82 as well as a piece of that deal, whatever package they constructed. And so that would open up even more theoretical room for them to add. And I do think, you know, given his age and still has some of that shine as a prospect, even though he's been in the league for as long as he has now, would be interesting to some teams.

I think on this team, the redundancy of having both him install. down the middle and the bottom six and what that does to your team's offensive outlook. I think it would make sense for them to try to upgrade there. Certainly, I'm very curious to see what they do, right? They're clearly going to be, they had the interest in Marner at the deadline. That has always seemed like a very logical partnership between the two in terms of his playmaking while not necessarily sacrificing on the defensive side and how that would appeal to Rod Brindamore while clearly improving their playmaking ability and getting some more

high danger looks as well. So yeah, I'm, I'm curious to see. It's interesting you bring up kind of the emergencies there, but not necessarily viewing it as this year or bust because they are kind of trying to scale this out and work a longer timeline. So it might not necessarily all come this year. But I feel like whatever options do present themselves to them, they're going to be in a good position to, I think, explore. And that was the logic behind the rant and deal, right? Despite the fact that they made the conference final this year, it was buying themselves more. assets and more flexibility to do so just beyond one run here. And so I think they accomplished that.

And they're in a pretty good spot for a team that was a conference finalist, despite how it ended for them. Yeah. And they're just positioned over the next couple of years to always be in on any elite player that becomes available. They've been a little bit unlucky in the sense that two years ago, they obviously brought in Gensel and then weren't able to resign him. and then obviously you make the rantan in trade and aren't able to resign him.

You figure at some point they're going to be able to land their guy and actually keep him. So that's just the team that is always going to be big game hunting. And whether it's this summer or even at this next trade deadline, I expect them to make splashy moves, whether it's to find another elite winger, to find an offensively oriented RD to play with Slavin, A second line center, multiple of those positional needs, taking those boxes off. They have the room and assets to do any and all those things.

Was the other team that you were going to mention there as the rebuilding one, the Utah Hockey Club or the Utah Mammoth now, is they're called? No, but Utah is also in a great spot. I was looking at the ducks. Okay. Give me your ducks out. So the first thing that stands out for them, even beyond the nearly $40 million in cap space and all the assets that they have is the ambition level, as far as Pat for be coming out at the end of the season and saying that he expects the ducks to be a playoff

team next season, for that to happen, yes, they're going to need some internal improvements and the fact that they fire Greg Cronin, who I wasn't a huge fan of as far as unlocking the best, out of some of their young offensive pieces, they're going to need to make splashy moves to become a playoff caliber team that can contend for a wildcard spot. I'm not totally sold that they can get the job done as far as actually making the playoffs next season

just because their goaltending was so strong this past season and while I still expect that to be a strength on paper, I'm not sure that on paper, as far as their forwards and defensemen, that they're as good as their improvement in the standings, this past season indicated. But the point being, I expect them to be really,

really aggressive. And even after they take care of McTavish and Dostal's RFA contracts, they're going to have, they're going to be able to be in on anybody. And the fact that they had such a quiet off season last year, I look at the ducks and go, I'm not entirely sure that we're going to look back at their moves

and look at them as good per se. Like we'll see whether the swings that they make are strong bets or not. But just as far as expecting fireworks, I expect fireworks from the ducks this summer. Yeah, I think that's fair. And I think including them is right. I did think you were going to go the Utah route because I just keep coming back to them in terms of what I just mentioned for Caroline, obviously in a much different state in their organizational arc. But the desire and then the ability to accommodate it checks a lot of boxes for me.

there, right? In year one in Utah, they just miss out on that wildcard spot by a handful of points, but you look at the underlying indicators and especially comparing them to what you just said about Anaheim, who made this big jump in the standings, but there isn't actually a lot of meat there to support that that's how good they were in terms of how they were actually performing. This Utah club, you can make the exact opposite argument, right? Like they blew 21 goal games, including three in overtime and shootout. They were seventh and five-on-five shot share. I know we've come a long way from just viewing that as a pure proxy for how good a team is. Yet this season, the only teams ahead of them in that stat were Carolina, Florida, Edmonton,

Colorado, Vegas, and L.A. And the stars were eighth, I believe, in shot share in the first 50 games before Miro Hayskin and went out. And so when you're viewing it as a barometer over an 82 game sample, there's still some merit to it certainly. And that reflects with what you saw from them down the stretch. they wind up and most importantly in my opinion they win the lottery right they move up they get the fourth overall pick and what an asset that is in a draft that most draft evaluators view as a big tier drop off and prospect level once you pass that point and it seems like everything we've heard owner Ryan smith is going to be very aggressive and active in spending and trying to consolidate

and build off of this year you mentioned with the draft capital for the hurricane Same can be said for Utah here where they have all their 20s, 26 picks if they're going to go the offer sheet route. And they also have a surplus in the second and third round as well holding the Rangers second in 20206. And so they could make whatever offer sheet they want essentially. I believe the compensation going up to 9.36 million is a first second and third. And so I would expect them to explore that as well. And you and I have spoken in the past about how it actually seems like this might be the year. We finally see teams meaningfully.

entertain that as opposed to a lot of the talk and then it never actually materializing. And I imagine they're going to work really hard on locking up Cooley and kind of going the Gunther route because you look at Gunther and he signs this extension at 7.142 million. It hasn't even kicked in yet and it already represents one of the best values in all of hockey. And so trying to do that with Cooley. And then I've spoken about trying to find a better long term upgrade on the top six wing improving on Schmaltz or potentially just adding someone else, the Schmaltz only has one year left,

and then having that person take those minutes the following season. They have a ton of cap space as well, right? I think they're listed at around 20 million on Puckpedia, but that doesn't even include the 3.425 on Macheli, who was one year left, and I know he kind of fell out of their plans this year, but based on what he did two years ago and his skill level, I imagine there will be a market there for a team

looking for a reclamation project, and so that cap expenditure could increase even more, And so I'm very curious to see what they do with that, whether they're able to add a top six winger that can play with Kooley and Gunther and Keller moving forward and give them even more offensive punch. Because I feel like the foundation we saw last year is so encouraging that I really want to see them add another piece to that group that fits in and can bump them into being a playoff team next year. Absolutely. And their D is already mostly said they've got eight defensemen signed. and last summer by bringing Sir Gachev and Marino in, who because of the injuries to Marino in Jersey for essentially the first half of the season, we didn't even see the full sort of set of Utah's defensemen.

They're relatively well positioned on the blue line. They probably need to add a backup to play with Vemalka, depending on Connor Ingram status. He, of course, entered the NHLPA players assistance program. But outside of that, all of their cap space and trade capital can go towards upgrading that top six group, which already has some skill. But if you can add just that one or two additional elite difference makers, whether it's on the wing or even an upgrade on Barrett Hayton in that second line center position behind Logan Cooley,

I think that would go a long way towards making them a playoff team. The other team that I had on my potentially good off season, and it's a TBD for, me, but I think the, if they handle it the right way, it could be a very good one, is the New Jersey Devils. Right. And I, I think you and I have spoken about this in the past, so we don't necessarily have to go deep on it, but they have this luxury of having Jack Hughes, who's going to come back and heco-hishear at 15.25 combined over the next two years. I know everything for them is right now, whether they want to admit it or not being viewed through the prism of Quinn Hughes as a UFA in the summer of 2027 and trying to scale it out and not necessarily over- commit right now and we'll see how that plays out over the next year and a half or two. But they have a couple contracts for good players, especially a Dougie Hamilton as a right shot defenseman. And we know what he's capable of despite his injury this year. But he's got this $9 million AV for three years.

His trade protection drops down. It becomes, I believe, a 10-team trade list this year. But after they pay the signing bonus, it's only a $1 million base salary this year, which would be a very appealing if they are able to facilitate a trade to a lot of other teams. and then it's decreasing in terms of the financial commitment for the final two years. And then Palat and Hall in particular for me, right? We've spoken so much about what a drag Palat was in the top six minutes when he was playing with those guys, how he just, I think, really encapsulated a lot of the issues with the roster and kind of the overcorrection that Tom Fitzgerald went last summer,

where they went from being this really just skilled offensive team that had some defensive questions based on their drop-off. previous season and then they bring in all these role players and glue guys and try to check other boxes. And then they're left with this team that when Jack Hughes isn't out there essentially just cannot meaningfully manufacture offense. And a guy like Palat was a big reason for that. He's got the $6 million Aavie, but the actual money owed is less than that for the final two years. And then Holla has only the one year left. And I believe is, I can't, I still can't believe that he had a full no trade clause, but it drops down to a 16 no trade in the final year of this deal. So if they're able to shed some of that money on guys who are bringing their results down

and not necessarily spend all their money moving forward, but do it in a crafty way where they bring in legitimate contributors, especially in the top six, and keep room open for potentially Quinn Hughes or whatever move they want to make a couple years from now when some of this other money comes off the books. I feel like if they handle this the right way, they could set themselves up really nicely for not just this coming season, but obviously a longer run at that.

absolutely i don't think outside of adding let's say a one top six winger that their needs will be overly expensive to address particularly if they are able to move out a contractor to open up more cap flexibility because really beyond adding the one top six winger i would look at that bottom six group and finding a way to add a little bit more more skill a little bit more secondary um scoring punch And you can accomplish that for relatively affordable prices, especially if you're dipping into the trade market as well and not just limiting yourself to free agency. And that's where the devils don't have their first round pick this year, but they have two seconds. They have a pretty decent prospect pool that they could dip into their well position. If they can just move out a contract or two to, you know, if they can add that one difference making,

top six winger to then just fill out their forward depth and inject a little bit more skill. And then from that point onward, it's just going to be about hopefully their top players can actually stay healthy next season. I've got the Rangers on my list here for the disaster off season. And it's obviously a TBD, we'll see. But you talk about a team that clearly had a catastrophic year this past season and missed the playoffs. They have the 12th overall pick.

We'll see still what happens. I don't think we've got any clarity on. whether they're going to retain that and then expose the unprotected pick to the penguins the following season or whether they're going to relay it now. And I think that'll be very indicative of how they view themselves, but they made the coaching change. They replace Peter Labielette with Mike Sullivan and bring back old pal David Quinn as well. And it was a team that was already 26th and expected goals against last year, 30th in slot shots

and inner slot shots allowed. And to put it all together, there's a ton of smoke, especially at the combine. of Keandre Miller's name being out there. We know that he didn't want to commit to him previously. They went the two-year bridge route. Now he's an RFA again. He's going to be, I think he has essentially one year left of Tief Control as an arbitration-eligible RFA. And so he'll be 26.

We'll see what comes of that. But I know there's frustration. And I share it in that I don't think his offensive game has necessarily come to the level that his talent level would suggest what, like the physical tools, what he's capable of. it's never actually resulted in the types of actual impacts that you'd expect from that. Yet with his skill level and those tools and the fact that he was playing more than any player on this team for the past couple of years at 5-1-5. And so all of a sudden, if you're subtracting that, it's obviously going to come with an accompanying addition of a defenseman.

But what that's going to look like and just filling that hole, I think, is going to be a massive task for them. And it feels like an organization that based on how last year went and some of the changes we've already seen is on tilt watch, right, in terms of like doing something irrational or drastic just to try to salvage this. And so how they approach it and whether they move Keanu Miller and what that deal looks like and then how they choose to fill that spot, I think is going to be a big storyline this offseason.

For sure. They're the only team that wasn't a cup contender this season that is in a significant cap crunch. There aren't many of those teams. There's only a handful because cap is spiking. so significantly next season. But everybody else that is in a spot where they might lose a good player or two. Dallas,

Edmonton, once you account for Bouchard's massive ticket this summer. Florida, probably not able to afford to bring back all three of Eckblad, Marchand and Bennett. Colorado, maybe. They have less than $2 million left after the Brock Nelsen extension. But all of those.

teams, the four I mentioned, were viewed as cup contenders this year. The fifth on that list, the only other team that's sort of in a cap grouch, New York Rangers, who obviously missed the playoffs, they need to carve out flexibility, a tad more of it anyway, just to be able to afford to resign if they wanted Miller and Kooley back. Like you, I look at Miller and while he's not a perfect player, while he is mistake prone at times, and he's definitely stagnated the last couple of seasons. They're already thin on the left side because Lindgren's gone. So they're already looking for one top four left side defenseman.

I'm not convinced that Carson Sussi is going to be that answer. I'm a fan of the player, but I think in a best case scenario, he's on your third pair, especially coming off of a down year where he struggled both in Vancouver and after the trade with the Rangers. So you subtract Miller from the equation. And yeah, there'd presumably be a defenseman coming back. but that left side of the Rangers blue line would just be so such a question mark. And the other thing that I'm trying to factor in here is pretty much every Rangers defenseman had a down year, Adam Fox included this past season.

And I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to give up on Miller before you have a chance to see what a Mike Sullivan led coaching staff can do with them, particularly because Fox and Miller in limited in a limited I want to say 500-ish minute sample over the last couple of seasons. The results have actually been really dominant. We're talking about 55 to 60 percent control share of whether it's shots, chances, goals. And so if you're looking for an Adam Fox partner on that left side, Kejonger Miller might just be the perfect solution there, not to mention, you know, a $6 million A.A.V for him potentially, which is sort of the range that he's been projected

according to AFP analytics and evolving hockey. I don't think that's outrageous considering his age and the way that the cap is expected to grow. But the spot the ranges are in, if they pay Miller or 6 million A.AV, they're only left with 2.4 million left over and that would have to be spread out amongst Will Cooley, who's in line for a significant raise

after his breakout season, and to fill out two extra depth spots, just to fill out a full 23 player roster. So they're in a tricky spot where they're going to have to move, you know, a contractor to even if they sort of have a change of hard and say we're committed to Miller and obviously Cooley is a player that you want to keep. You know, something has to kind of give there. And we've heard the smoker on Chris Crider and there are other deals that they

could try moving. But they may not be easy contracts to actually find a taker for. And so the position the rangers are in, especially if they lean towards trading Miller, they could be in for a disappointing offseason. He would be such a perfect player type for the sharks to go out and target, Keandre Miller at that, right? Like a youngish kind of in his prime defenseman that can skate well and play just fun uptempo hockey with some of these young forwards they have.

And whether it's a Mario Ferraro who has 3.25 left on one year, or something like that, facilitating that with obviously as part of a package, I think, would be incredibly interesting. And if Mike Rear is not at least exploring that, I'd be disappointed. But he's done such a good job so far in accumulating assets that that would be a very logical one for me. I have the sabres in here as well. We're kind of running our time.

So maybe we can save that for later. But just because of, you know, they certainly have desire, I think. To end this playoff drought, they have a ton of caps base. I think 23 million. Now a bunch of that could be divvied up among some of the RFAs they have. but the RFAs are of interest in me because we had heard a lot of the conversations around JJ Petirka at the deadline

and teams poking around and interested in that. I'm very fascinated to see what the conclusion to this Bowen-Bairam situation is because he's one of those RFAs as well and I've been a fan of the player before. I did not like what I saw from this past year and you look at the 5-1-5 splits in particular for him with and without Rasmus Dahlian

and it would be pretty alarming to commit to and compensate him for it. So what they do with that will be very telling, but I imagine, and there's always the questions for them as well, despite that cap space of how much of it they're actually going to spend and whether they're going to be willing to utilize most of it. So we'll see on that. You got any other quick ones that we didn't get to the major list? Minnesota worries me in a little bit as far as the bad offices. Not because their posture as far as cap space and trade assets is an issue. but I don't love the idea of them potentially trading Margar Rossi,

which it certainly seems like that's the direction that this saga is heading towards. And just big picture, they have an opportunity this summer to deploy some of their cap space and in chips to take that step from being just a playoff team to one that can make a little bit more noise in the postseason. But I don't fully trust Bill Garron to be. the general manager to most efficiently deploy those resources. And I don't have a lot of confidence that he can elevate them to that next level. So especially if they lean towards moving Rossi, who I'm not sure how much trade value he would. I look at him and I think he's more valuable to your team than he is as a trade chip because

a lot of teams just generally speaking are going to be scared off by the size. I think he is still a really good player. And in the Wilder, one of these really well-positioned teams to actually take advantage of Rossi's skill set. Because he's, despite being a smaller body, he's a net front score. He gets those dirty areas. And between Caprizov and Boldie, the Wilde have two elite playmaking wingers that can get him Pucks in those spots. So I think if he sticks around in Minnesota long term, he'd grow into a really effective top six centermen. But if you lean towards trading him, I don't think you're going to get full value back.

And even if Garen collects extra money and extra trade chips, let's see a first rounder, to go out and make additional moves after Rossi trade, I just don't fully trust him to deploy those resources most efficiently. I think that's fair. You and I have away from the show been spending a lot of time. I know you're doing a lot of legwork on Rossi and kind of how this unfolds. I like the player quite a bit. I was obviously very high on him as a prospect.

I think the way he bounced back after the start of his career is very impressive. I thought he was quite good this past year, despite the fact that he kind of fell down the depth charred when they were healthier. In the playoffs for 20, what, he's going to be 24 before the start of the season. He just had a 60 point campaign, 24 goals despite that size. His play on the interior, I think is very valuable. And so I've seen a lot of. lot of, I've seen at least some kind of balk at the idea of whatever that's seven by seven or slightly above that would look like if you are acquiring them on the extension,

given the state of the cap and locking in a player for all those prime years at that price at a premium position. I think it's such a no-brainer. So if I were any team looking for center help, that would be a very cost-effective one. I think, let's end with this. We've got a couple minutes left. I wanted to, you know, on the theme of the offseason and looking ahead, but also looping in the Stanley Cup final and the game two is happening tonight Travis asks, we always hear up with the NHL being a copycat league.

Do you think there's anything teams will take from the success of the two finalists or does the repeat matchup and quote unquote, just having McDavid believe things unchanged? What do you think if you're another team looking at the Panthers and the Oilers making it the back-to-back cup finals

and the success they've had respectively the past two, three years? What do you glean from that? What are you taking from a team-building perspective to try to replicate or try to kind of use for yourself in trying to get your own team to that level. Yeah, for Edmonton is tough because they have McDavid-Divettle and you can't just spawn. McDavid Drysettle if you're if you're another team.

One lesson I think you can take from the Oilers is there's a stereotype around a typical playoff defenseman and this prioritization of size and being hard to play against and and just being the type of defenseman that can win battles down low and just play that rough and tumble style. But I think with the way the Orler's constructed this blue line, bringing in Klingberg, giving stature and opportunity at times when Atcom was out, bringing in Jake Wallman, which has been a home run acquisition for them, they really emphasized speed and ability to transition the puck over purely sort of chasing size. And we've talked about this on the show before, but especially when Ackham was out,

Darnell Nurse is really the only defenseman on that blue line who you'd look at and go. He's sort of quote unquote hard to play against in that traditional playoff style. And yet that Orler's blue line without Eccon for large chunks of this playoff run have still been able to facilitate success. Now, of course, the Oilers are having the success mostly on the back of their forward group rather than the defense. but the fact that that blue line didn't just fall apart without echoing, it speaks to, I think, an understanding that some teams should have, especially when, let's say you look at a team like the Tampa Bay Lightning and how badly that blue line was exposed by, you know,

the Panthers heavy forecheck. A lot of teams these days are built on that heavy, speedy forecheck and just giving you nightmares on that front. And sometimes if you have a decor that is built with too many of these defensemen that can't move, that can't make plays with the puck, it leads to you being stuck in your own end. I think, especially as teams sort of adopt more and more of a dump and chase style, that it's going to be increasingly important to have a blue line that can actually transition the puck up the eye. So that's one lesson I hope teams are taking. Yeah. I mean, they got clearly

slower and older up front last off season and I think we were concerned about what that would look like and then they in season just compensated for it by adding the type of defensemen that can speed up the pace they play and get it to their forwards more quickly and more efficiently. And it's not only facilitated attack, but I think led to them just spending less time actually defending as well. And when you watch that play, it's very evident. I think that's, especially with how devastating their rush game's been this postseason and how they've sort of just crippled teams with it or even the fear of it. I think that's a massive selling point. and I certainly would hope the teams are noticing that for Florida.

I mean, a lot of the talk is going to be about the tax benefits and the sunshine and all that stuff. And some teams just not having that luxury, I do think the system they have in place that's allowed them to, especially in the blue line, incorporate a lot of cheap reclamation projects to rebuild their value. They can just step right in because of the way they play and take a lot off their plate and just make it a lot easier, particularly for, you know,

either limited or one-dimensional defensemen who's that, dimension is skating and moving forward. They've had a lot of success with that. And they've also, I think it's been sort of the red herring of the tax conversation is they've also leveraged financial might in the process as well, right? And that's not necessarily unique to just them. But if you look at the contract structures and we've spoken about that in the past with how many signing bonuses they're paying out, how they're front loading it, how they're making it very appealing for players to sign long term, I think that's a big part of it as well. And the Dump and Chase style is an interesting conversation.

We've seen teams, whether it's Craig Brubay in the Leafs or a bunch of other examples, already kind of try to gravitate towards that as well, not necessarily just giving up the puck and playing without it, but doing so in a very tactful way where you realize you're not going to be able to just, you know, rush it up the ice freely all the time in the playoffs and finding answers or kind of workarounds to get that puck back and then create off of that. So I think both represent challenges in terms of trying to replicate it because on the one hand, Florida does what they do so remarkably well. And on the other one, despite all that stuff we said about the Oilers, ultimately when you have McDavid and Dreisaito, it makes doing a lot of this stuff a lot easier. And other teams just don't have that privilege.

But I do think in seeing the way they've put these teams together and the way they play, especially this season, there's some really useful stuff there for teams to try to mine for themselves. Definitely. And I think also when I look at some of the conference finalists this year, just extending even beyond Edmonton, Florida. Another lesson is that if you could only pick one between having an elite forward group and an elite defense, you pick the elite forward group all day long. And it's not that defense doesn't matter because you need a blue line that can defend, that can move the puck, that can chip in with secondary offense. but just to see the Oilers make the cup final without without Ecommon and finding this patchwork defense that was able to work and of course you have to shout out the again home run acquisition of Wallman too but you wouldn't look at that defense on paper

independent of the rest of the pieces around them and think that that's a group that would necessarily lead you to a Stanley Cup final the fact that the Dallas stars one in the first round without Miro Heiskenen again on the back of one of the deepest forward groups in the NHL, Mika Randon, being such a big difference maker. And then the Panthers Blue Line is good, but I believe that they're greater than the sum of their parts. And as you alluded to, have a sort of system in place that allows them to get the most out of sort of these reclamation type defensemen. And again, they have such an elite forward group. What a luxury it is for them to not only have the kachar.

Barcove, Ryan Hart Tier of superstars at the top of their lineup. But that third line with Lundell and Marshan has been unbelievable. So just to see the way that Edmonton and Dallas, Edmonton, Dallas and Florida are constructed just on paper. Their forward groups are certifiably elite and their defense groups are good, but they're not the strongest asset of those teams on paper. All right, buddy, good stuff.

I'm not sure if the listeners can tell, but we try to keep these shows to 50 minutes. And after I went 30 or so with Sean on the front half, I was like, all right, harm, we're only going to do 20 minutes here. And then we way overshot that because obviously when you and I get together, it's always a fun time. And I love chatting with you. Plug some stuff on the way out. Let the listeners know I know you wrote about some of these concepts we talk about at the athletics.

So let them know about that and where they can check it out. Yeah, I wrote earlier this week about 10 teams that are positioned to have aggressive of off seasons. I have another piece coming out soon on five teams that are in, you know, sort of cap crunches and diving more into Dallas's situation. So that's going to be interesting to watch. And then later within the next week or so, I'm also going to have a piece looking at which overpriced contracts teams

could be trying to move outside of the, like really obvious straight targets who you already know are kind of available. Awesome, buddy. Well, I highly recommend everyone checks that out to help themselves get ready for the upcoming offseason. And once we get to that point and we finish this Stanley Cup final, I'll have you back on

and we'll break all that stuff down even further. Join the PDA guest Discord. Took a couple mailback questions from there today, especially as we get into the offseason. We'll have more time to do so. So join us there. Give us a five-star review wherever you listen. And we'll be back with the Game 2 post-game show

with Drance later. Thank you for listening to the HockeyPedioCat streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.