The Hockey PDOcast - The Sunday Special Is Back, and We’re Talking Game 3 of Both Conference Finals Matchups

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Thomas Drance to react to Edmonton's 6-1 victory to go up 2-1 in the West Final, and Florida being one win away from their third straight Stanley Cup Final appearance out East. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name's Dmitra Filipovich and joining me here in studios, my good buddy Thomas Trans. Tom, what's going on, man? Great game tonight, or this afternoon, I suppose, the one matinee game of the conference final, really enjoyed it. Thought the result did a disservice to a Dallas Stars performance that I actually thought was wildly impressive in spots, especially in that second period. Yeah, we'll have some interesting conversations. The Florida Panthers riding high, the Carolina Hurricanes, disgracing the metro.

There's lots to get into, bud. There is. The Sunday special, as you can tell, is back. We're back. We had a one-week hiatus while you were away on vacation, and yet, honestly, I'm not sure if other people feel this way, but for me personally, it felt like an eternity. It may as well have been,

and so it's awesome to be here back in studio. As you said, we got this Stars Oilers Game 3 matinee on this lovely Sunday, and we watch it here together in studio. in the control room, and now we're recording right after with all of our takes. Everything we saw, how we're feeling about the series at this point, right off the cuff after the final buzzer of this game. You mentioned kind of the flow of it and maybe the score line, the 6-1 final distorting.

Like if you didn't watch this game, you just look at it being like, oh, wow, the Oilers kind of built off of what they did in the first two games and ran away with it. In some sense, they did, and I'm going to get more into that in a second here, but I'm totally with you when you watch that second period and in totality the shots on goal in just that second period alone 22 to 7 Dallas high danger chances of corner natural statics 11 to 2 for the stars and yet despite all those looks they come out of that period going into the third with nothing to show for all of that work because with 18 seconds left in the frame well 25 seconds left let's say McDavid gets a pass in the neutral zone comes in tries to wrap it around the puck comes up high Bouchard brings it back down

to him. He beats Andreau with a shot. And the goal of the stars had scored previously in the period gets washed away. It's still a two-goal lead for the Oilers heading into the third. And so that was clearly very backbreaking for the stars. I think it seems weird to say this in a game where you just lost by five goals that are now down in the series. But I think offensively, it was certainly the best effort we've seen from the stars in quite a while, especially at even strength, a lot of the down, low stuff, some of the chances they

were creating. And so it's funny because, you know, this is Stuart Skinner's first game in the eight games he's played this postseason where he won and he gave up a goal along the way because he was either good for a shutout or an 800 seat percentage previously in Oilers losses. He found his floor. He comes out of it stopping 36 to 37 and it was clearly despite those three previous shutouts by far his best individual performance. I mean, he made a number of huge stops got bailed out by a couple of posts. Also, there was that sequence. I don't know what the score, if it was still 3-1 maybe at the time, where Tyler Sagan gets that shot in the slot.

It's kind of bouncing around. Skinner's out of position a little bit. I still, we watched a couple replays, still don't know how that didn't go in ultimately. I think to Skinner's credit, he got his stick on it. And that was right before Ryan Nugent Hopkins sent that sort of one-touch pass. To Hyman, for his first goal. To Hyman, yeah, to make it 4-1. And that, to me, is the story of this game.

This was actually a very tightly contested contest until, you know, the final 10 to 15 minutes of the third period when it really got out of hand. And the game pivoted on two moments that I think don't necessarily reflect like a golf and talent between these two teams or tell us a story of what to expect next so much as the Oilers were able to pounce on them. The first one obviously was in the first period where you get the Brett Kulak puck over glass that goes. uncalled and Bouchard scores to make it to open the scoring like immediately thereafter and then McDavid building off that using that oilers crowd scores to make it two nothing very shortly thereafter. That was a huge swing in this game and then again three one with the stars pressing and really stressing out I thought the oilers beneath the hash marks in a way that I don't know that we've seen in this series previously like I thought this was a level of control

level of like dynamic offensive generation, a serious threat posed by especially the Rattan and Granlin line behind the net and below the hash marks. I thought Oilers defenders even absorbed it decently well and managed to sort of pick at and stymie some of their opportunities, but also some posts, some exceptional saves from Stuart Skinner, some good fortune from Stuart Skinner too. He got beat by that one Granlin shot late in the second, but it did hit the post. It hit the post and then him and then the post again. as close as you can get. That was late second. I'm certain of it. Okay. No? I'm pretty sure it was in the first, but anyway. It all bless you. We're recording right after the game. Let's not get too bogged down. Yes. The, um, so that moment obviously swings it and then, and then I thought that four one goal, the Hyman breakaway with the heads up pass from Ryan Nugent Hopkins right after there's this moment where even Chris Cuthbert on the broadcast, how did that stay out? echoing everybody watching from home. Um, you know, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that,

to me, those two bounces going the Oilers way and going against the stars. To me, that's how, you know, a game that on form, I think should have been a one-goal game becomes a route in Edmonton in game three. Well, two things stand out to me. One, the quality of this series compared to the East Final counterpart that's been incredibly one-sided, I'm going to talk more about it, maybe in part two of today's show. It just makes for a jarring viewing experience with them alternating from one night to the other, right because you watch that East Final and how much the hurricanes are struggling to create.

And then in this series, really throughout these three games, it's remarkable how these teams, and this speaks to how dangerous they are and how many high-end offensive players they have, seemingly nothing plays or like slight little windows all of a sudden get jammed wide open into immediately dangerous opportunities. And I think that's incredible to watch. The other thing I want to say is, and I've got to take, you got to take your Ws where you can in the NHL postseason because there's so many twists and turns along the way. In the aftermath of the game two, our pal Harmon Dial and I did a postgame show for this series. And we were talking about

McDavid and how much he was generating throughout this postseason, but especially in the first two games and how eventually the flight of gates were going to open. He was going to score and he scores two goals in this game. We were talking about Ryan Agent Hopkins. I want to get more into him in a second here, the Bouchard-Kulak pair. One other thing we talked about, and you could see it in the back half of game two, right? How these two teams create offense, especially within the scope of this series, is a fascinating dynamic for me. And I think you could see that and it kind of explains what the score line despite the flow of play. Because the stars did an exemplary job in this game of creating looks at even strength, but a lot of it was kind of this half-court offense, right? Like you're

grinding down low, you're working against a set defense, and you're trying to get the puck into a slot or create traffic and score that way. And sometimes, it can look very dangerous from an offensive zone time possession perspective or even from a chance perspective. But then as soon as you start pushing offensively that way, the Oilers are just feasting off the rush. And you could see that kind of against the grain counter in this game. I mean, what, three or four of their goals at least? We're off the rush. I think Sports Night, they do these intermission stats through 40.

They had cycle chances 10-5 for Dallas, which is exactly what we saw. And the rush chances at that time were 8-4 Edmonton. And of course, the Oilers scored two more rush goals after that in the third period. And so I think that's exactly what you saw. So in that way, it kind of was an extension of what we saw, particularly in game two, right? Because when the Oilers blew that game two open in the second period, you and I were texting at the time. And we're like, man, the stars seem to have finally found their footing in this series. They're actually making a push.

Ranton is taking the puck to the night. They're creating opportunities. And then the Oilers would get out for these odd man rushes, three on two with the stars caught deep. And it's a slippery slope for them and it's game over. and I feel like that's exactly what we saw here today. I do agree with that. The thing, though, that I also think should be noted was if in this series, we are talking about a world in which Stuart Skinner is outplaying Jake Ottinger,

which I think he has across the last two games, I think that's a series that the Oilers can, that's not going the distance. like the Dallas stars absolutely need to have the edge and net in this series. And I don't think they have through three games. In fact, I think the Oilers have based on what we've seen, what Skinner's put on tape across the last 120 minutes. Now, do we expect that to continue? I think we'd all still feel more comfortable with Audencher than Skinner over the balance.

But, you know, like that third goal is an absolute backbreaker. And because it's McDavid, it's. it's so easy for us to say, well, that's a great shooter, because it is. It's literally the best hockey playing human being on the planet. But when you watch it, I don't even think McDavid hit his spot. I don't think McDavid hit his spot. It wasn't super high velocity. There wasn't a ton of traffic.

It wasn't from an interior portion of the ice. Like, that has to be stopped in my mind. That's one of those where, you know, we'll obviously doff our cap to McDavid, who's been due and is lethal. But I don't, I don't think you like that goal. Dallas and I think it was a massive turning point in this game. So, but David came in this game, one five-on-five goal this postseason. On 68 shot attempts, 19, high-danger chances.

He scores the two here. I'm with you on that particular instance. I do think, though, over the course of the series, and I think you made this note to me, and I completely agree with it, when they trade chances, there's a certain, there's levels to this. And there's a certain level of menace to when the oilers get down. Hill, especially if McDavid's driving the charge, where it just becomes terrifying. And so in that sense, regardless of what the scoring chance totals are, I would expect that

Skinner's in a better spot relatively without exposing whatever his remaining weaknesses are in his game, which is some of that lateral movement. He made a couple lateral saves. In the past two games, really. But in the first period, who was that? It was on Merrill Haskin and pinched in, cut the puck off, sent a cross-ice to Colin Blackwell. and he got across, yep,

Sam Thiel, yep. And that probably bought him an extra half second. But one thing I liked about that is, to me, there was an element, what I liked about the save,

specifically is if you go watch the footwork from Skinner on the save, he knew he had to get further than his technique would allow him to, and he just completely abandoned structure. And I just think that's, like, now,

I'm not a goalie coach because a goalie coach would be like, ooh, boy. But the save selection element, the plate just play the game you know you're not playing goalie you're playing hockey uh throwing technique out the window just to be like i better make it i like that i think that's a sign of a of a guy who's composed and in control of his game right now i think rn h has been unbelievable in this series three primary assists in this game you mentioned the heads-up play the high one of goals

stretching the ice getting it to him on the break he's got seven points in three games this series they're up six nothing in his five-on-five minutes i also like what i love to so much so much about the Hyman one touch, you know, it's a slap pass-ish. What I liked about that pass so much was it's a 50-50. Like it's a puck that easily could be picked off by a noilers, or sorry, a star's defender, but the stars are forechecking. They're in zone. They're going to have to clear. A turnover in the neutral zone in that position is not fatal to Edmonton by any means. They're not going to be able to go a million miles per hour and enter the zone quickly. They're going to have to regroup. There's going to have to be some.

East West. You know, it's the third period, short change. You probably, like, it's just such a smart moment to throw a Hail Mary one touch pass that way. And the fact that it worked, obviously, makes it additionally brilliant, but like, there was no downside to trying that play. And I think that's what just a really cerebral second line forward, like, R&H can bring to your lineup. And, you know, I think about this a lot because R&H, for example, in the first three, four games of the playoffs against the LA Kings where, let's be real, we all remember what watching those games felt like. It felt like the Oilers were liable to be blown away by that Kings team. It's kind of exactly the shoes, the stars find themselves in right now. Right now.

You're right. And I thought Ryan Nugent Hopkins was struggling significantly in those games. I thought the pace that the Kings were able to attack with through the neutral zone was giving him trouble and the Kings were absolutely sagging off him on the power play and daring him to be the guy who beat them. And it worked in the first couple games of that series as the Kings sort of built their lead and had this massive special team's edge. And I sometimes think like, you know, Ryan Nugent Hopkins was the first overall pick on his own. I think he's a first line caliber center, like a low end first line caliber center in that sort of like Bo Horvatt class. You know, not the same like body type or the same stifference.

stylistic type of player, but in terms of being a guy that if he's on your first line, you're probably fine with that, but you're maybe not going to have the necessary gear to contend with a McDavid or whomever. And for so many guys who end up getting cast in that role on lesser teams, you know, you end up being a little bit overwhelmed, or you go into the playoffs and you have two points and your team loses in six games because there's just not enough good players around and you're not even properly slotted. And those players get absolutely crushed. And it's sort of been an interesting quirk of history that Ryan

Nugent Hopkins has instead had this opportunity to become like the most overqualified utility guy in hockey adapting to how the Oilers play. And he's still got this gear and this on-ice intelligence and playmaking IQ to take over in a support role for the Oilers while also being insulated so that he's not

the guy who like has to win the game for you. He's just landed. He's just landed sort of in this perfect spot to be, you know, something that adds a gear to what the Oilers are capable of doing as opposed to being a guy who, you know, we see it all over Canadian markets and the original six markets get sort of crushed as the guy responsible for a team's failings when fundamentally that team's overmatched in the first place. You know, just to get back to Skinner, because I've got it in my notes and I wanted to give him more love for you talking about some of the athleticism kind of throwing a technique out, just making this.

saves after the stars score to make a 2-1. I think it's the net following shift, if not very soon after. Wyatt Johnson gets the puck on the side. He kind of takes the puck to the net against Jake Walman, brings it across, and Skinner is able to basically extend, get across, get his pat on it, and it feels like all of a sudden if it's 2-2 there with the momentum the stars are building, it's certainly an entirely different game. RNH also set up the first goal.

And I've spoken a lot about how, and maybe this is to your Audinger point in terms of him not playing up to the level maybe previously his postseason he brings it in kind of loops around gives it to Bouchard there's traffic in front certainly that's the first goal on just given up this postseason above the faceoff circles

from the Bouchbaum now a Bouchard shot is probably much more dangerous than a lot of the other defensemen that have been shooting the puck against Ondtler so far this postseason Bouchard has been incredible you speak about Ryan Agent Hopkins and how his postseason started and really how his regular

season went and then the level he's taken his game to here as the Oilers have progressed, I'd throw Bouchard in there as well, right? Because the first couple of games, he came under a lot of heat for defensive mistakes, turnovers, bad positioning, the Oilers were bleeding a ton of goals against the Kings. And he's been really phenomenal ever since. I think really stood out in this game is just the anticipation and kind of feel he has for the game, right? Whether it's kind of stepping up in the neutral zone to intercept Pucks, leading up to that McDavid

backbreaking 3-1 goal at the end of the second. And the stars, I think, are content getting it to intermission. They just sort of high flip it into the neutral zone. It's a 50-50 puck. Bouchard steps up, gloves it down, sends it to McDavid with speed, then keeps it in at the blue line again, allowing McDavid that second opportunity to score on. And, you know, him and we still didn't see at home in this series.

I think people were expecting him to come back in game three. I do wonder, I mean, certainly he's not going to be 100% regardless of whenever he comes back. If they had lost game two, they probably bring him back in, but we know how NHL coaches don't like to. mess with a winning formula and lineups that just came off a victory, you see more of that Kulag-Buschard pair and just how good they've been, especially when they're out there syncing up the minutes with McDavid, R&H, and Hyman, right? I mean, they're just completely tilting the ice and creating at will.

And so I think Bushard's been phenomenal. All these guys are stepping up. Do I talk from the Star's perspective, I do think what you saw within that push, and I think something maybe to build on despite the 6-1 loss is, you know, Rupé Hans doesn't play in this game. They wind up bumping Michael Grandland down the middle with Ranton. And you described them as the Rantin and Grandin line. I thought Jason Robertson had by far the best game he's played so far this postseason to the point where he had played eight previously after coming back from injury, right? 25 shot attempts, three high danger chances combined in those eight games. He had five high danger

chances and 11 attempts in 17 minutes in this one winds up scoring the goal. I think before that he beats Starnelner's out front and tips home. The Bischel shot, he created a bunch of other opportunities off of some of those down low plays below the goal line hitting into the slot. And so that's incredibly encouraging. You saw Ranton in with a one-timer where he drills it off the bar at the start of the second. He was creating more as well.

Like, I do like from the star's perspective, despite just the one goal and how well Skinner played, one of my big concerns through the first two games of the series, really, where like, can they just create enough at even strength and not be entirely reliant in the power play? haven't seen it yet this postseason beyond these rant and nuke situations. And there was more of that here for them to build on, right? So I think defending the rush and what the Oilers are doing in that area is going to remain a concern.

But they're going to have to generate more offense than they were previously. And that this game was a good building block for that perspective. I wonder if they should stick with that line because I thought the area game between those three players, Granland, in particular, getting sort of lost, finding quiet ice pretty effectively working out front while, and, you know, rantin in behind the net tonight was ludicrous. I mean, to some extent, because we're so used to him being an oversized, like, playmaker on the flank on the power player, because he does these, honestly, he does

these McDavid's controlled zone entries setting up his own shot. He just does them at a far slower pace with a sort of imperious size to him. Because those are sort of the things we more typically associate with him, you know, even I sometimes don't notice just how imposing he can be leveraging his size to control play down low. And I thought whatever the calibration of that line was, the amount of battles, the amount of plays that Rantan was able to make behind the net, honestly reminded me a little bit of watching, like, Gino Malkin 15 years ago. You know, it was a powerhouse performance in my mind from Ranton and down low, even if the results went against his team. McDavid is winning that matchup, right? Like the head-to-head, one of the big problems that the stars are running into here is they're losing the matchup at the top of the lineup, and they're also losing the matchup further down the lineup. But other than that, it's fine.

Well, yeah. But right now, especially with a pretty critical game four, and the Oilers holding certain. serve in terms of, you know, they're going to be able to free McDavid up to play against a secondary line. He won his minutes against the Rantanin Group, but at least they made him work for it. At least they're controlling play and defending 150, 200 feet away from the opponent, from the Oilers Net. Now, that's a mixed bag when we're talking about McDavid's counter threat. But I kind of like that. I wonder if they're best off putting Rope Hintz down lineup to make those eight minutes that, you know, Noblock's going to be able to

sick McDavid against Dushan or Wyatt Johnston, poor Wyatt Johnston in the minus 16, you know, doesn't make sense to use Rope Hintz to sort of strengthen the middle of the lineup here, given what I think the stars got results aside from their top group today. That's fair. There's under the assumption that Hints will be able to come back. I know he took the pregame skate, but for a guy. For a guy who relies on a skating ability with the nature of injury is certainly not ideal. I think the Oilers ultimately, especially with Skinner's relative strength and weaknesses and how well he's playing now,

you know, when you play a team like the stars or any really quality team in the NHL this late into their postseason, you're not going to be able to take everything away, right? And you're going to have to kind of pick your poison. And if you execute defensively, you're going to live with giving up certain things. And so the way these games are being played, you watch this game three with how well the oilers, for all the concerns about them previously being like loose defensively over the years and not getting back and whether the effort off the puck was there, that's certainly no longer the case the past two post seasons, but really during this run. And so when they're getting back,

even when the stars are occasionally looks like a promising opportunity to get out in space, those are getting back, getting set defensively, and then living with what the stars are able to create knowing that there's going to become a time and a place where they're going to be able to push in transition. And so I think, they're perfectly fine with that environment. I know McDavid was talking post-game about certainly they're not going to be happy with the shot totals and how much time they spend in their zone and kind of needing to rely on Skinner to the extent that they did.

But I just think that dynamic between the two and how they're creating, it's very reminiscent of what the stars had to do essentially in round one to get by the abs, where like you have to micromanage every single shift in every single sequence because of the fear of the other team's speed and transition game and it can really get away from you and it did in this one and that's going to remain a concern regardless of how long this series goes yeah the i mean the second period i think was concerning defensively from the oilers um they i don't think it was i don't think that second period was a bend but don't break performance either i i think the stars had them under real duress i think oilers players made some quick

critical, you know, interceptions or found a way to get a stick on a puck or what have you, that to some extent made it feel like more composed than it was. So I do think there is a solid 15 minutes that if you're the stars, you put on tape and can watch tomorrow and feel, hey, we're still in this. We've got a shot. In fact, we dictated a large sample of that game. that said, so long as that level of pressure, if the stars are able to maintain something close to that, damn's going to break. You know, eventually those chances are going to find sticks and on and on.

And that's where you want to be. But I also thought kind of the opposite was true. There were a lot of Oilers rush chances where like Mero Heskinin or Thomas Harley or or Liam Bischel managed to get like a late stick and interfere with a, good wrist shot. Evander Kane had that one off a McDavid cross seam feed. There were a number of opportunities like that throughout the game. So I also feel like

the same is true. So now we're in a styles make fights sort of moment in this series. Well, that's what I was going to say to you because within that second period there was like a four minute stretch where it was just in the oiler zone. The stars are kind of cycling around, getting shot attempts. And then all of a sudden, McDavid and Kaepinin and go out on that two on one.

Don't wind up completing it late in Kaepinan shift, but it's like you went from zero to one quite literally. And it was immediate doom for the stars. And then shortly thereafter, a nothing playing in the neutral zone, all of a sudden, I think R&H once again makes a nice little connective play,

bumps it to Perry. They come in with numbers. Perry draws a tripping penalty on Bishol and like in a blink of an eye, nothing was going for the Oilers. And then all of a sudden, they're able to create it into an opportunity that I think supersedes whatever came previously

for the stars. I really wish we had, this is a, a personal nitpick, but I really wish we had Jack Michaels for these games with all due respect to the great Chris Cuthbert. And I think he's done a fine job on the call here. But I mean, you and I have just loved the energy, I think, and enthusiasm. Because especially for some of the remote broadcast this postseason and all our complaints there, capturing the energy and the moment, especially once you get to these late stages of postseason, is so vital for the viewing experience.

And I feel like right now no one's doing that better than Jack Michaels. And I thought what he put on tape through the first two rounds. Certainly warranted the opportunity to do a series of this magnitude. And so I know he's doing the radio. And he had that great interview with Troy Stetcher that we both loved during game two. Losing his mind at the second F-bomb was phenomenal. It was also so funny because, you know, Bob Stoffer is just like loving it. He's cackling in the background and he's such a chaos agent.

And then Jack Michaels is trying to be so professional in his entire time and like bring them back in as the host. then. Well, you know, so I think this applies too to John Shorthouse a little bit where the regional play-by-play guys get maybe pigeonholed as play-by-play callers who only appeal to their market, quote-unquote. And I sometimes worry that it sort of puts a ceiling on them as like general or national game callers. You know, in Michaels' case, just, I want to hear him do a high moment, like a high leverage neutral series. I'd almost like to hear him call a non-oilers one because I think he's getting to a point where his emotion is elevating the moments in the game.

And that's, you know, something we associate with like Bob Cole, like the best of the best. And I just think they're sealing for him as a broadcaster, much like I think about with Shorthouse, where I'd love to see them get a shot doing some of the best. these big national games or what have you because they've got the chops they're they're hitting i mean michael's hit a completely preposterous level in the first two rounds and and i think he was pulsating yeah and i think the i think the notion that you know um that like it would only appeal to oilers fans like do you have ears do you have eyes do you have passion for the game then you'll love a jack michael's goal call from from the month of may uh 2025 you didn't even cover everything from this game we didn't really

talk about that sequence off the top, right? Or when the Oilers finally scored because I thought the stars were playing a pretty good road first period, especially with how tilted the ice had been through the first two games that even strength. And then all of a sudden, the missed call on what should have been a delay a game for Kulak, I know that there was a makeup call later on the high stick that really wasn't a high stick and the stars got a power play out of. But going from that to immediately getting that Bushbaum goal and then I think 36 seconds later that play kind of a long. the boards where

McDavid is able to get it past Harley, one of the stars, skaters in the offensive zone gets their stick caught in the blade of an Oilers defender

and then it's a three-on-one against poor Cody Cic and McDavid buries it and that was obviously I mean those 36 seconds probably I mean those were quite literally the game winning goals

because the stars only mustered one here so that was the difference but I think the one thing that I want to just harp on I suppose is this notion

like two one series lead, a really dominant scoreline in game three, and that sort of amplifies this conversation around this series. Well, and the fact that really, aside from 20 minutes in the third period of game one, the Oilers have controlled much of what we've seen against Dallas. I think that leads sort of, or dovetails naturally with this conversation where it's like, you know, given how the star's underlying form fell off down the stretch of the season and given sort of this, this, how they've controlled play throughout the postseason, whether it was against Winnipeg or Colorado, this idea of them as being almost like capitals west.

And I don't really think that matches and with, with the reality of what we're seeing in this series. I think there's an element to which, you know, Edmonton's top gear is higher than theirs. But I don't think that should be misinterpreted as Dallas being like overmatched or not having an elite ability to control. That was awesome and it was highly entertaining for like 54 minutes or 55 minutes of it. But also I just think there's, like we're seeing it in the East

and we'll talk about this with the Panthers and Carolina, although we saw it against Toronto too, where the Panthers turn up and they just bury you. And I think the stars have that in them too. It's just that it looks a little different. It feels a little bit more precise. It's not as physically assertive and overwhelming and your team doesn't look as flat

when it's happening to them, but it does happen to them. And we've seen it against the Jets. We saw it in game seven against Colorado. We saw it in game one. Maybe there's a little bit more power play efficiency sort of in the mix. Certainly the way they defend is a little bit more subtle. The way they make shots is a little bit more sort of like it's less, it feels less like a blunt instrument than when the Florida Panthers are just banging a club

atop the Carolina Hurricanes heads. But I don't want sort of like Dallas's soft underlying profile in the playoffs to obscure how elite they are, how dangerous they still are in this series. And the fact that at any moment they can also have those 15, 25 minute stretches where they bury you. Not unlike what the Florida Panthers can do. And we may yet see that matter in this series. I don't think this is a matchup between like the analytics approved bona fide elite team in Edmonton and sort of the fraudulent lucky, efficient team in the Dallas Stars. I think if you're framing this series in that way, and I've seen a lot of it, I just think that's missing the point of sort of the key conflict

here. Yeah. I mean, personally, regardless of the scoreline, I'm very excited for this game four to watch it with you on Tuesday and just to see the adjustments and to see, because it feels like each of these games have certainly been an individual chapter, but also much different than the previous one. And so I'm sure game four is going to bring a whole new set of surprises for us to unpack. All right, Tom, let's take our break here. And then we come back. We'll jump right back into it and we're going to close out today's Sunday special. You're listening to the Hockeypede Ocast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. All right, we're back here in the Hockey Pedyocast, Tom. As you teased before we went to break, let's get into Panthers Cains in the game three that we

watched on Saturday night, the latest beating in this series, a 6-2 win, bumping the series total in goals to 16 to 4 for Florida. And their last seven games dating back to the Leaf Series, they're up 30 to 8 in those seven games. They score. scored four goals in the third period in 411 of game time here, which matched Carolina's output for the entire series. I had scoring chances, 22 to 8, Florida and game 3. And the eight periods since game one period two, 49 to 19 for the Panthers. The hurricanes haven't scored a 5-1-5 goal since then.

It's 11-0, Florida at 5-1-5. There's some, let's just keep up with the mind-boggling stats, because I got a few more for you. Barkoff, 36, 5-1-5 minutes in the series. Panthers have scored 5-5-on-5 goals. The Hurricanes have generated 10 total shots in that time. Dimitri Orlov. On for four Panthers, 5-on-5 goals in game three,

and honestly, directly liable for pretty much all of them. The first Mikola one bounces in off of them. The second one, he gets twisted into a pretzel by Boquist. We're talking about the Sports Night commentary. I got to give John Bartlett credit for this one, because his goal call on that was, Yes, sir, which I loved. Three one goal.

He lets Sam Bennett walk in the zone and then he gives it to Mikala and we're going to talk more about the Nikomikala series that we're witnessing here. And then the four one goal turns it over up the wall to Kachuk. He gives it the bark off. He does the rest. He's been on the ice. Orlov has for 10 goals against in 62 minutes in this series,

which has been a really tough look for all Demetri's. And we're certainly going to have to discuss that at our next convention. I don't have, you know, we intentionally just, it was fresh on mind, we just watched. It's also so much more entertaining. The reason why we spent 32 minutes on Stars Oilers and we're saving only 18 here on the back half for this one, this guys just don't really have that much to add tactically, one because it's been so one-sided, but also I had Steve Peters on Friday and we conducted like a full scathing review after game two of everything we've seen, and then game three was just a doubling and tripling down of that.

what are your takes on this? Because I haven't talked to you about this series yet. What are you seeing? What do you think the main talking points for us should be coming out of this 3-0-Panthers lead with them on the brink of a third straight Stanley Cup final appearance? So I think, first of all, that the Panthers are just in Carolina's heads.

I think there's no other way to explain this level of avalanche in terms of just how, off-sided. This has been at five-on-five. It's been a detonation. A detonation. And I don't think on true talent that the gap between these teams is as large as it's felt watching these games. I think the Florida Panthers are better. I think they have a higher top gear. I think both teams, you know, play their game and expect to control play. And I do think that sometimes when we saw it with Rangers Panthers in the Eastern Conference final last year, sometimes when

team just is better. It overwhelms the other team and they sort of end up out of answers and don't generate shots. But like the Carolina Hurricanes are one of the three or four best at this. And I wonder like, because last time we saw these two teams play and the Panthers swept them and Rod Brindamore said it was close, he was right. That was fair. They did not get swept and please don't put in the newspaper that they got swept. This time it's not close at all. And I just, I wonder to what extent Carolina just doesn't think that they can beat them.

That's what it feels like when I watch it. I would add, I do think there's things you can do to attack this Panthers team. And Carolina's not doing them. Like a lot of those goals, the Barkov second goal, right? And the Barkov won off Kachuk. The Maple Leafs found their best level of success

playing through the Panthers, you know, pressure game, playing through their stress hockey approach, and often playing through through the middle. A lot of those Maple Leafs counter opportunities that they feasted on, certainly to build their 2-0 series lead and that worked for them intermittently throughout the series, including that sort of seven-minute stretch in game one. Those came where Defender makes the first four-checker miss,

finds sort of an outlet with a forward in the middle of the ice, and then another middle of the ice stretch pass sets it up. Like multiple passes, the most dangerous passes you can make. But you have to be super precise to make them. And Carolina doesn't play that way. They're just trying to flip, sort of move the battle into a safer area of the ice. And you saw that with like the Morrow Pass where it's up the middle. The result is the same as if you tried to make a skill play.

But it's a flip. It's a desperation play. I just don't think that the Carolina Hurricanes, are doing a good enough job adjusting from their usual stress hockey approach to try and dissect the Panthers the way that you have to. Like there's no other way to play against this team, I don't think. And I think Edmonton does it better than anyone else, which is why if we do get that Stanley Cup final rematch, it's going to be one of the most interesting or fascinating

sort of tactical matchups of the playoffs because the Oilers are very comfortable trying to attack you off the rush that way. I don't think the hurricanes want to play that way, and I don't think they've been quick enough to make the requisite adjustments and sort of incorporate some of the Barubei game plan into their approach here. The Panthers scored three goals in game three within five seconds of a hurricane's turnover. According to Mike Kelly and Sport Logic, they have 16 such goals this postseason. No other team even has seven. And I think that goal you're highlighting in terms of going up the middle, backtrack 10 seconds before that. I think that's a great point to what you were saying about part of this being,

like the snowballing of an accumulation of being in one's head because even before that, like, Gostis Bear has an out and all of a sudden he feels pressure. He loops around, goes back behind his net, puts it tomorrow. All of a sudden he's in a bad spot than he started it with. And then that leads to the turnover and immediately a conversion at the other end. and there's just been too much of that to go along with the fact I mentioned those score in chance totals and there's just to have no answers offensively either for actually getting to the inside. I mean, I'd argue like even in this game, right, they score the two goals the Hurricanes do.

Stankovin scores the power play goal to make it one-one and the second off a rebound net front. And then when the game's already six one and out of reach, he at least takes the puck to the net, sends a cross-ice to Jarvis and sets it up so he was directly responsible for both the goals. really he's been the only guy in my opinion that's actually just been playing their game and competing and battling and I really admire I mean it's no surprise for Logan stankov and even this early in his career but that battle level he's demonstrating and despite the fact that the results are going against them he's actually trying to make stuff happen and unfortunately for him seemingly no one else in the team got that memo because there's just nothing happening

yeah otherwise um the nico miko mika series So hopefully he's going to be okay. It sounds like he will and he won't miss game four. He went, had a nasty kind of crash into the boards late in the third and then he kept him out for the rest of the score out of reach. But scores the two goals here. You know, the first one is a whatever play that bounces off of Warloff. The second one, though, he's the first guy to retrieve the puck,

sends it over to a teammate behind his own net, sprints up the ice, gets that pass from Bennett on the three on two and then just rips it past Kachekhov, who I thought, you know, had a really good game thrown into a spot after they made the goalie switch after game two. And his activity and his stickwork in particular was pretty much the only reason why he was still 1-1 heading into the third. But Mikula, his, I mean, his skating and his activity have just been absolutely incredible. I know if there's anyone that's as big a fan of Nico Mikola as I am, it's probably you. And the amount of time I wish people knew that we'd spend talking about this guy.

So it's been incredible to watch. Here's my other thought for you. I don't know if you agree with this, but I've thought that Matthew Kachuk has noticeably the past two games. games looked much more spry and much more just involved and engaged offensively. In this game, he has 14 shot attempts in 17 minutes. He makes that play on the wall off the turnover to set up Barkov. He had the play in the second off the rush where you can tell he's really feeling good about his game and feeling himself where he dangles it between the legs and then gets an

opportunity off of that. And the reason why I bring that up is because if the Panthers are able to close out this series quickly and the stars get back into the West Final and force a long series out of the Oilers, could be like 10 days off for the Panthers potentially, maybe like 11, I think I saw, if the West Final goes the distance between how many days off they're going to have

between playing games if they're able to close out this series early and what a benefit, I think, that would be because they're not going to have home ice this year and you know, I've spoken about what a difference maker that was in game seven last year against the Oilers, I think what's going to help compensate for that is potentially having this much time off, considering how hard they play

and just how much they require their physicality to win these games. And also considering what I still expect to be a drawn-out physical gauntlet of a series for both the Dallas Stars and the Edmonton Oilers in the West, right? I know that sounds hot given the way that the Oilers put up six goals against them and took the series lead today. But I truly think that that's still going to be an extremely demanding physical series for both of those teams. and if the Florida Panthers are able to close this one out, which feels likely,

feels inevitable. It's not, but it feels that way. Yeah, I mean, that rest advantage is big. Going up against them going up against McDavid without the Forsling Barkov smother and blanket, which they're just able to throw over elite talent whenever they're at home. I'm fascinated to see it because it really did feel like

once the Oilers remembered that they had to shoot high, against Bobrovsky last year, you know, look, the results speak for themselves. It was 3-0. Panthers, and it was very nearly a series that the Oilers won, and I still believe that the Oilers probably win it if Game 7 was played in Edmonton as opposed to in Sunrise. You could just feel the difference as that series went along between what we saw in, for example, Game 5 and 7. You know, Game 5 McDavid makes sort of scores a wonder goal to sneak that series back to Edmonton, and then you just saw the detonation. in game six, just like you'd seen it in game four, that felt materially different.

So, I mean, that's going to be a huge factor here. And as for the Kachuk of it all, right, I still think the problem like this Florida Panthers team feels unbeatable from today's perspective. And I think the truth about sort of what it's going to take to defeat this team right now, how they're composed where I mean I would argue that they have eight or nine first line caliper forwards in their lineup like I think they are preposterous and one of them's not even not even uh not even playing in these games he's healthy scratched okay 10 no but I mean you know guys like Antoine Miko Miko is playing like a first line forward in the series I'm just saying guys like Anton Lundel are like if three years from now we're talking about E2 Lusterinen as like a

a modern or a modern day Andrew Ladd. I'm not going to be shocked at all, right? If he ends up somewhere else and playing 20 minutes a night and is a 55 point guy, that's not going to stun me at all. So anyway, I do think that the Bennett Kachuk for Hagee line is, because again, the Panthers sort of dare you to do things that are extremely difficult if you're going to beat them. Their weakest parts are the things that require like are the highest degree of difficulty to achieve. So play through them to beat their stress game. Like good luck. Have fun. That's an extraordinarily difficult thing. And against that Bennett-Kichuk for Hagee line, that's the only line I feel like that the Panthers have that

plays like your average top line in the NHL because Barkov and Lundell and Lusdoran and Marcia in that third line, they are so disciplined about being on the right side of the puck and playing just this robust version of defensive hockey. Now, they're skilled enough to also capitalize off your mistakes, which is a nightmare in and of itself. But at least the Bennett Kachukchuk for Hagee line, at least you'll occasionally see them take some chances and maybe play a bit reckless. And that's where, like, you need to win those minutes, I think.

I think that's the sort of key ingredient to beating this team. We haven't seen someone do it consistently. enough, Leifes came closest, and certainly as they're currently constructed, I don't think Carolina just has the horses to win that matchup and then also hold serve when the Panthers turn up. Well, to echo what you're saying about Lundell, it's the ultimate footnote given the final score line in this game three, but there's a shift in the third period where it's still two-one Panthers before the onslaught, where Eric Robinson rings it off the crossbar, bringing it out front.

And then there's a backdoor pass. I think Scott Morrow actually sets it up. And Lundell gets this backdoor stick lift, then blocks a shot high in the zone. Then we've spoken about Jonah Gajewicz, our guy, Jonah Gajewish, is a defensive zone redemption here. Right. He manns up one-on-one against Morrow and essentially just knocks him down and forces the puck out of the zone, diffuses it. They come back and Mikaa scores that 3-1 goal. And it's a wrap at that point.

Bennett could chuck and for Hage. He all have five points in three games in the series. And I completely agree with you that. they're the most vulnerable in a way defensively because they're just so aggressive on the forecheck and you know could chuck and benet get caught down low and for hege's attention span can sometimes come and go and the Leafs were able in those first two games they won at home in that series to really punish them in doing so it's funny in this game and this speaks to how well they're playing paul maurice you know he didn't have the benefit of last change in the first two games but they've gone

essentially head to head against ahio and you'd think especially off the rush that would be Carolina's most likely avenue towards creating offense. And they had some of that early on in game one, but since then, that Kachuk line has completely dominated that matchup. And I think part of it is, you don't need to hear us talk more about a Canadian hero, Sam Bennett, but his back pressure and just like how on and off the puck, how much disturbance he's creating, pushing guys back, and just being all over the place, that's been a massive difference maker here.

Yeah. And I also think the defensive personnel here, just like we're on some level because of what the hurricanes have achieved to this point we're stunned to see them this out of answers trying to move the puck against the panthers but then we really think about it and i think we step back and say brent burns leads all their defenders a nice time at five on five and dmitri orlov is at a stage where he's not the puck mover that he was in like the you know the heights of the nick jensen dmitri orlov hybrid shutdown pair you've got Shane Gostis Bear playing top four minutes.

And then you've got a variety of young players in Morrow and Nkishin, who I've actually liked in stretches or spurts in this series. And I think if you're the Carolina Hurricanes, you have a lot of hope that they can be part of the long-term answer for sort of what you're doing. But aside from Slavin, like, I don't think we should be that stunned, given the personnel or the horses that Rod Brindamore is able to ride on the back end,

that they're struggling to beat the Panthers' stress game in retrospect. I think it's a nuanced conversation, right? Because I think the optics of how they got to this point in winning both of their round one matchups against a banged up Devils team and then the capitals in round two, both in five. Right. I think was like, all right, this year is going to be different. But then you take a bit of a step back.

And I think you and I have spoken about this. I don't think the hurricanes really thought that this was going to be the year. where they got over the hump. Sometimes the NHL postseason is like that, where you don't even have the best version of your team, but things break a certain way and you're able to benefit and win, and that's why we value just being a really good team for as long as you can because you're giving yourself more opportunities at it.

But they've acknowledged as such that they clearly feel they don't have enough high-end good players, right? They did so by making the Gensel trade two years ago. This year, with the rant in initial acquisition, and then taking a bit of a step back, and the fact that you look and now, you know, there's going to be a lot of tough conversations if you go 0 and 16 in your past four Eastern Conference finals and get,

especially if game four is as ugly as games two and three were. But you're into the offseason in a pretty good spot. Not that anyone necessarily involved with the hurricanes wants to hear that right now, but like you have, what, 30 million in cast base almost? A lot of guys already under contract, a lot of malleability with the three first rounders over the next two years, the prospect pool they have. I imagine they're going to be very aggressive. We could probably pin this for once we get closer to the off season

in terms of most interesting teams maybe to watch this summer, but I imagine they're going to be pretty high on our list because there's certainly going to be an appetite and an ability to accommodate whatever type of trade they want to. So right now, though, it has been quite ugly, and there's really not many silver linings to draw on, like what we just said for the stars after losing Game 3 by 6-1, where it's like there actually is some fundamental stuff to build on.

Right here, it's like you essentially just need to play a complete opposite game and hope that something works out so you can at least have a bit of hope in this series. Because right now there's been nothing to draw on from these last two games. Yeah. And I mean, for Carolina's sake, you hope that they's like getting one win and just ending the conference final losing streak. You know what I mean? I feel like there's real value in that for them to not get swept here more than your usual amount because you don't want to hear about 16 and 0. when, you know, you make it here again, hopefully with a team that's got an upgraded cast in terms of sort of grafting elite talent onto the impressive machinery that the Carolina Hurricanes have used to win seven,

like they've won around in the playoffs for seven consecutive years. This is how it's done. There's still distance for them to travel in terms of adding elite talent. We know that. And that's shown. The results make that inarguable based on what we've seen in the conference final. But I don't think when you get there the next time, whether it's next year or the year after, with a team that's maybe viewed by us and sort of the industry as a more credible Stanley Cup contender,

you don't want to show up in the Eastern Conference final and be like, well, how about O in 16? All right, man. Well, that was quite a note to end today's show. On apologies to Matthew Coronado and his extension, we still don't have time to get into it. We'll get to it at some point. This has to be the longest running tease and important. podcasting history. You got anything to plug, Tom? Canucks off-season content at The Athletic. Check that out.

Canucks talk, of course, every day. Noon to 2 on Sportsnet 650 are available as a podcast across the Sportsnet podcast network. All right, buddy, it's good to have you back. Looking forward to next week's Sunday special, of course. Give us that five-star review wherever you listen to the show. Join us in the PDOcast Discord as well. Apologies. Spotify still is not uploading the shows for whatever reason. Sportsnet's working on it, so hopefully that gets resolved soon.

In the meantime, that's all. for today from us, I'm going to go take a long nap because we've done four straight days of shows here. Hopefully you've been enjoying them. We'll be back soon with plenty more of the PDO cast. Thank you for listening to us on the Sportsnet Radio Network.