The Hockey PDOcast - The Trevor Zegras Trade, and Our Most Interesting Teams This Offseason

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Shayna Goldman to break down today's Trevor Zegras trade, and then work through our most interesting teams this offseason and the big decisions that are ahead for them. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey PDOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovin. Welcome to the Hockey PEOCast. My name's Dimitra Filippovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Shana Goldman. Shana, what's going on? Hey, thanks for having me today. It'll be a fun one. You and I originally had a jam-packed show planned. We're going to do our most interesting teams this off season and really break all that stuff down to get everyone ready for Friday's draft where we're assuming a lot of trades will happen. and obviously the free agency market that'll open shortly thereafter. But we got a fun trade to kick us off here. And we're going to be very flexible with our plans and start off talking about the Trevor Zegra's trade that broke about a half hour or hour before we went on the air.

And actually, I don't know, I gave you some homework to prep teams for today's show. I didn't have the ducks or the flyers on my list of seven teams that I had jotted down. I don't know if you had them on yours, but it gives us a good opportunity to talk about each of them. Yeah, I actually didn't have the ducks on mine because I went for teams that I kind of see the vision or I want to know what the vision is. And with the ducks, I'm seeing the vision and I don't love it. I think it's very curious how they've been operating over the last couple of seasons. And now the Zegu's trade kind of adds to it because, you know, you look at him and you go, okay, is this guy capable of being a franchise cornerstone? Because that's what they draft.

That was what he was brought in to be, right? and that is something every rebuilding team wants to have to build around. We already know Troy Terry isn't that, right? Troy Terry is like your elite complimentary top six winger, that if he's your number two or number three guy, you're in good shape. But it feels like with Zegris, they were hoping he would hit that next level and it hasn't happened. And then you look at some of the defensive declines around it and you go, okay, maybe it's a problem. And this past season, right, like any defensive strides he took the year before are kind of gone.

And now it took his offense with it. So you go, okay, there's some problems here for sure. It makes sense why they might want to move on from him. But on the flip side of it, you say, why are you selling at the absolute lowest point when there's no pressure to do so? Even if you want to go into the year with the clean slate, I think that there's a way to do that without rushing a deal that just feels so imbalanced when you think of the heights we know Zeggerts can get to because, sure, he can't be the franchise guy, but you need more than that to contend, right? You need a really strong top six. And if he's your second line center, he's a winger in your top six, like you could be in really good shape if you can harness the offensive ability that he has. and the creativity that he has.

And we know that it's still there. You look at all three zones tracking. There's still some really positive signs to build off of. So it just feels a little short-sighted and imbalance for me. As much as Payling's going to address what they need in the bottom six, as much as a pick is a good thing to have. It just underwhelms me. And I look at Anaheim and I'm really questioning the vibe and the vision here

when they have so much cap space to work with. Yeah, it gives us at least a merciful conclusion to the will they won't day loop that it feels like we've all been collectively stuck in for years now. This is Zegris is the seventh guy in the top 10 from the 2019 draft that's been moved, which is pretty remarkable considering that was only, what, five, six years ago. So the return is, as you mentioned, and it certainly seems underwhelming at first glance. It's the 45th overall pick at this year's draft, Philly's 2026 fourth, and then Ryan Paling, who essentially you look at any single metric,

and he's the anti-Zegris in so many ways. I think Pailing is certainly, you know, he's going to get lost in the shuffle here a little bit. I think he's a very useful player for the Ducks. He's a 27-year-old center only making $1.9 million. He's a UFA after that. But he's got skating juice if they're going to play faster this year. Finally, he's going to be able to eat up defensive minutes behind Carlson and McTavish down the middle. Anaheim was 29th in the P.K. last year and he's certainly going to provide penalty-killing utility there.

And in general, their special teams were such a weak link for them last season, right? the power play was dead last as well or in the bottom three. And then they go out previously and add Chris Kreider. So they're clearly trying to address some of that stuff on special teams on the margins. So I like all that. But certainly in context of everything, Pad Rubek's done here and sort of the types of players they've been acquiring, this fits that MO, I guess.

I'm with you. I don't love from a asset management perspective selling a player when they're at a low like this coming off a year where you, me, everyone else who was covering this game was consistently talking about the Greg Cronin effect, right? How he had them playing a style that wasn't suitable to the personnel they have, all the young players who should be playing fast, direct, up and down hockey, and instead he was trying to button them down. And so that's going to have an impact here in a lot of his numbers. And I think that's reflected in the usage as well, right? Cronin was very critical of him last year. He wanted him to change his game and play within the context

of their preferred style. Actually, you know, the numbers don't necessarily reflect it. You look at some of the player cards, and Zegras is still over a three-year span, I think third percentile in terms of even strength defensive impacts. I thought individually he actually made some strides there last year, just didn't necessarily bear it in the numbers because the ducks were so bad as a team defensively.

But, I mean, the usage as well ties in here in terms of the production because I think his scoring stats are going to be cited a lot here in terms of the dip over the past two seasons, some of that being health-related as well. But when he was thriving, and in his first two years coming into the league, he was playing kind of free hockey with Troy Terry for the most part, right? They were using him the way you would,

a player with this skill set where his offensive zone starts were near the 70% neighborhood. And then you compare it to what happened this past year where the lines are in such flux all the time. He's playing with Coulorn and Sam Colangelo and Robbie Fabri and Frank Vitano and kind of mixing and matching along the way trying to find a fit. His offensive zone starts drop below 50% and, So it's not surprising that amidst all that he had a pretty pedestrian scoring profile. And I wouldn't necessarily think that that's representative of what he's going to be. Certainly maybe we need to adjust our expectations from the star caliber, I guess,

association he had through his first two years because it has been some time since then. But he's still only 25 years old. And I do think there's much more in that opposite direction than what we saw over these past two seasons. Yeah, exactly. And I think something to consider is going to be how much the environment of being in Anaheim weighs on a player because we've seen it before where players struggle in poor surroundings. But after years and years and years of being in that, right, like it wears on you a little bit extra. You think of someone like Hampst-Linholm who looked completely washed.

And then it's like, oh, look, what a surprise. He's good when he gets to Boston. Look what happens when you put someone in a better situation that's, you know, more geared to their game. and also just not a sinking ship that Anaheim has been. And, you know, you look at Greg Cronin, and I was really excited about him in Anaheim, and there's a reason the team's moving on from him. I just don't think some of the initial comments

about the vision, the direction, the leadership have panned out. So, you know, they should take a step forward for a number of reasons, but I just think being in that environment can drag someone so far down defensively. It's hard to find their way out of it, And that's why someone like John Gibson's value is also dropped. And then it starts to weigh on the offense. But like in today's game, you need speed and skill and creativity, right? Like you can teach defensive structure.

You can't always teach those innate offensive instincts. And I think Zegris has them. You just have to find a way to harness them and maximize them. And he's someone that, you know, compared to some other up-and-coming star players that we think of, you know, I think he needs more help to get there. And I think he partially needs more help. to get there because the ducks have been so bad, right? And that's always the challenge for a rebuilding team because you're going to draft and all these players and develop them,

but you have to make sure that you're putting in a strong enough foundation that it's going to support them in the way they'd need that a contender can't do. So it hasn't been an easy situation. Like I don't blame the ducks for being like it just isn't working here. It just feels like this wasn't it. Yeah, I mean, clearly Pat Brubique wanted to trade him and there was a misalignment there and he wasn't his guy. I do think in terms of one questioning, why now as opposed to trying to rebuild the value and playing into the season. I think they certainly tried to trade him last year in season and towards the deadline. And I think some teams were hesitant to do so because integrating a player like of this

ill, because considering how, you know, theoretically puck dominant he is and what a big name he is, maybe they were like, all right, that's more of an offseason move. And you look for the ducks, he's going to be 25 in March, right? And he makes 5.75 this year. And then he's an arbitration eligible RFA next summer. and they have a huge summer of 2026 ahead. I assume they'll try to get some of this business done before then once these guys become extension eligible.

But that same summer, they have Leo Carlson and Carter-Goche coming up for their second contract. They also have RFA deals ahead for Jackson Lacombe, who's earned himself a pretty penny based on his play this past year. And then Zelle Weger and Minchikov as well, right? And all those guys are making sub one million now. And I imagine that cost is going to significantly increase on those deals.

And so there's still. and down the barrel of having a sixth RFA that they would have to figure out a long-term deal with. And so I imagine that's part of why they wanted to, for, you know, pun intended to get their ducks in a row here. But I'm with you. I think the acquisition cost especially makes the potential upside for the flyers just undoubtedly worth it. Right. Like we know how starved they've been for offensive Jews for playmaking ability, particularly down the middle. Because you look, they gave no accates that extension.

They have Sean Gutieriery there for an. number of years moving forward. And so finding someone who can create beyond those guys, I think is imperative for them. And that's why I thought, considering they have six picks in the first two rounds in this draft and a bunch of cap space, they were a very interesting Elias Pedersen destination if the Canucks decided to move off with him. They went this route instead. I imagine they'll still explore additions elsewhere, but it just makes sense for them. Right. I don't think this necessarily means that he's going to be playing with Mitchcov because the defensive acumen of those you guys would, especially under Rick Tocket, I don't think that's something we're going to see moving

forward. But if he's playing with a No and Tippett, for example, on his wing, I think that would be incredibly exciting to watch. We know what Tippett's capable off the rush, getting someone who can get on the puck. And you mentioned those all three zones numbers from Cory Schneider. I've got them down here. He was 91st percentile in rush shot assists, 92nd percentile in scoring chance setups, 88th percentile in zone entries. And so even while the numbers weren't there last year and everyone was struggling at Anaheim under the hood. He was still creating a lot of those looks that we know the flyers, even with a new coach,

are going to want to try to create with this personnel group. And so I do think that's an exciting fit with a lot of bounce back potential here, I think from a scoring perspective for Zegris. Yeah, absolutely. And you look at the flyers, how much they've worked on their defensive structure over the years in like the Tortorella Bradshaw era. And even the offense performed better than expects it a lot of the time,

minus the power playing. And you're like, okay. So if you could put stronger talent in there to go around some of the players they already have. Like, that's recipe for success. And I think they definitely not only have the structure, but the, the roster around him in Philly to make things work, right? Because you have guys like Noah Keats is a Chonkateria.

Like, you don't need more of the same. You need something different. Say Mitch Kov and Ziegers don't play together at even strength, but they do on the power play. It's like, okay, great. Now you have two offensive threats split across your top six. Like, that's a good thing to have. So it just, it builds up the skill set you're missing. You want to have an element of dynamic skill.

and an element of surprise in there, right? So it's just a balancing act. And I think when you're in the Flyers position, they're a rebuilding team, you can take these risks, right? It's a low-risk, high-reboid type thing. You didn't spend a ton to do it. You have the cap space and, you know, you could load up with draft picks forever

and keep replenishing your prospect pool. But it helps to have guys in that, you know, mid-20 range. And here's another one. We hear that all the time from rebuilding teams, right? They hit a wall where they're like, okay, we need someone to play around the 18-year-olds. And I think, you know, the flyers obviously already have veterans in place and they have players in the mid-20s, but it makes sense that's what they're targeting here. Yeah, the biggest issues for them in the past two years really under, under Torrella, beyond the goaltending, which was a massive problem, was they were 32nd on the power play.

And they were 31st in team shooting percentage. I think one of the Oilers generated more rush chances were rush shots than them last year. And they just had no real finishing ability. A lot of it was because they were just so north, south, in terms of very little playmaking east-west. And so Zegris is certainly going to help that, especially if he's playing in the top six with a guy like Tippett. I think one thing he certainly needs to work on. Everyone's going to focus on the defensive stuff, especially under Tocket. He's been sub 40% on faceoffs for pretty much the entirety of his career now.

And it was like 36, 37% this past year. And I like his game a lot more down the middle than on the wing with that playmaking ability to kind of control the flow of action. And he's just going to need to become at least competent at that, I think, to earn the trust to stay in that role. We'll see if he's able to do it. But like I said, I just think from an upside perspective, these are the types of moves that a team like the Flyers has to be making. And so it makes a lot of sense. And for the ducks,

I kind of get where they're coming from in terms of they're trying to change what's going on in Anaheim after the past couple years and become a more serious organization. And I don't necessarily agree with all that stuff. I at least see the logic a little bit. But I do think from an asset management perspective, they played this pretty poorly. You got anything else on this trade?

or do you want to get into our originally scheduled programming plan here? Yeah, let's talk about some fun teams, all right? Like, we see Anaheim's making changes. They're clearing out space. We'll see what they make of it this summer because, honestly, who knows? But I think that there are definitely more interesting teams out there. All right. So I think you and I did this last year at this exact time as well.

We're going to go through our most interesting teams to watch this summer, give our reasons why and kind of what we'd like to see from them, what they could at least do, that warrants are at 10. mention now I was listening back to this just in preparation for this. I had the Predators as my number one team this time last year. And I think I was proven right considering how active they were in free agency and how much money they spent and everyone came out of that being like, they're the big winners of this. Unfortunately, it turns out I was essentially the Walter White meme of him screaming in the car trying to warn at Warren Hank in this case, Barry Trots and he didn't hear my warning calls.

But let's get into it. What's your first team? I'll give you the floor here as the guest. I think think we both have about seven teams. I'm sure there's going to be some overlaps and we'll probably get to five or six of them in total, but who's at the top of your list? All right, I'm going to go with Utah. I am super intrigued by them because I think the last year that they were in Arizona before you heard the team was moving and I think everything

rightfully fell apart them because there were so many things to deal with, they showed a ton of progress. And I like that in their first offseason under new ownership, you know, they had the green light to spend and swing big, right? They get John Marino, they get Sergejave, they are ready to make moves. and they addressed a huge area of need on the back end

and let some of their forwards cook and I think now they have a better idea of what they're going to need this summer, right? So I wonder how they're going to be on the free agency market. Like I'm really curious about that because I think we're seeing teams and players are learning, like this is different, right? You're hearing from a lot of the players there.

This is a new experience. This is not like Arizona. I think they're appreciated more and treated more like professional athletes in the way they should be. There's that clear investment in the team from top to bottom to the arena to everything and more to make you feel like you're truly an NHL franchise. So that should help them in free agency, but I'm still kind of curious how much they add that way or how active they are in the trade market.

So you don't have to go through the same hoops that maybe you'd have to do to like sell people on the team if they don't know just how different it is yet, if that makes any sense. So I'm very curious because they have a lot. lot of potential. And I think that you could clearly see Clinton Keller is a star and Dylan Gunther is on his way there. Same with Logan Cooley. But someone like Micelli, I think is interesting. Like they don't use him enough. So I wonder if he's a potential trade piece. And if there's anyone else that stands out to them, like, what are they going to do to make this team better and push him the next step? Because I think they could be, I thought they were going to be a wild card team this year. So I was clearly wrong on it.

But I think, I think that they could get there with a couple adjustments. So they have this young core and you could see this you know they have all of this talent here like how do you now take it to the next level now they're a team that i think can afford to go for say the 27 year olds versus only targeting 23 year olds i am more than intrigued of what at what they're going to do video cast listeners will not believe this but they were also number one on my list i'm absolutely mesmerized by them and i think they have a huge summer ahead for a variety of reasons the first of which is they have north of 20 million in caps based jack mcbane is their only notable RFA in terms of just housekeeping stuff.

They also have Logan and Cooley coming up as an extension eligible guy, and I imagine they're going to push very hard to get him locked up for eight years, similar to what they did last summer with Dylan Gunther, whose contract is just starting this coming season, and at 7.14, he's already one of the best values in the league. And so I think they're going to try to follow that process as well. As you mentioned, I think they can open up even more room plausibly because a guy like Micelli has one year left at 3.425, and he fell out of their process. plans as the season progressed.

He dressed for just six games from February 1st on and fell out of their rotation. But he's 25. Two years ago, he was 32nd in the league, I believe, in primary assists per 60. And maybe a team like Dallas, I know they can't really afford to take on much money, but considering the finish connection and some of the playmaking ability, they're going to lose with guys like Granlin and Doddanov leaving, most likely. That would be an interesting fit. They also won the lottery and got the fourth overall pick in the process and anyone

you talk to keeps coming back to the same conclusion that they might just ultimately make that pick because it's probably the last time they're going to pick this high for the next decade. But at the same time, they're going to explore using that for a lot of options in terms of just getting a ready-made guy who still fits their timeline. And there's any number of them, right? We can talk about JJ Partyrka. I know you wrote about him recently at the athletic. The opposite shoot route is very open to them as well because they have all their 2026 picks

and they hold New York's, the Rangers, second rounder that, you know, as well so they can pretty much send out any offer sheet they want going up to 9.3 million. I think a guy like Will Cooley would be very interesting. Matthew Nyes, although it sounds like he's going to stay in Toronto. I do also wonder about a guy like Alexei Lafrenier for them, right? Because he fits the timeline as a 24-year-old. He's starting the seven-year extension that he signed this season. And I know his production dipped from his breakout the year prior,

but they're looking for size in the wing guys who can play off the puck with some of these puck dominant playmakers like a Keller and Kuli and we've seen Lafranier thrive in that environment playing with Panarin on his opposite flank and so I'm not sure if that's what we're going to see them do or whether it's going to be making a splash on the Frasier market

but all of these options are very available to them and I'd really like them to see them be very decisive and aggressive getting one of these guys to play with everything they already have in place. Yeah, I love that. I want to see them go for a really good puck mover. I feel like that's what I look at them and I go like that is what you're missing. Like a really, really good pop mover that you're going to use because clearly it's not

Michelley. So big, big fan there. Your pick next, right? Well, I got a couple more notes on Utah here before we move off them because I just, I think they're they're incredibly interesting. I do, you know, I expect them to be very competitive. They're eyeing what's going on in Florida. And I think both Bennett and Marchand would be incredibly great fits for them in terms of what they need. We'll see if either of those guys actually make it to July 1st. But I think that's what makes this offseason so fun for us. Right. I had grants on yesterday and something we spoke at length about was this dynamic that's emerging this summer where the cap's going up, everyone has a bunch of space to legitimately add and get creative now. But then you look at the

actual UFA market and there's a couple guys up top that are worth it. But there's not nearly enough talent to go around to account for all that available money. And so if you're Utah, I know they're a very intriguing market now. They're clearly with this new ownership group and the rebranding and everything going to become a trendy spot where players I think would want to go to play. But ultimately, there's only a couple of these guys. And some of them might just stay with their teams or go to potentially bigger markets. And so if that's not available to you,

then all these resources they have make them such a fun trade option for pretty much any player that's theoretically available or been rumored to be so. And I wanted to include Michael Kesselring in here as well, right? Because I think he's, I think the world of his. game. We know that every team essentially is starved for right-hand defensemen, and he's turning 26. He only makes $1.4 million this next season. And when Dersie and Marino came back post four nations, he slipped down their depth chart. I think he was their six most used defensemen. And if I'm another team looking at that, I would be making calls about that, certainly,

because I don't think they're going to give him away by any means. I think they value him quite a bit. But he's at least theoretically available, and he'd be such a fascinating, trade ship, I think, for any of these guys who already have contracts and are available or are FAs and their teams are scared of offer sheets. Yeah, he was a name that came up when we were working on the Petruga story. And Matt Fairburn pointed him out specifically as someone that would make sense for the Sabres to target because they definitely need help on the right side. And I was looking at Utah's roster and I was like, you package him and Michele up.

And I feel like maybe you have something there because the Sabres are another team that could use good puck moving players up front. I think they have it on the back end between Dalian and Power, but you have to have a couple forward to, I think, who can make some high danger passes. So I wonder if that could be something. I feel like that would check off a lot of boxes for both sides of it. It fits within the timeline for both teams here. And, you know, if the Sabres are making moves, it feels like they're very intent on, like,

hockey trades. And you see, like, the Cousins for Norris one as an example or middle staff for Byron because they don't want to just trade picks. And I feel like for Utah, we saw Arizona do that for. for so long. And you can make a lot out of draft picks, right? You look at this roster and how it's built, and it's built so much on players that were drafted in Arizona. Okay, you did that, right? Like, that's going to help you moving forward, but at a certain point, you need to be trading for actual talent. And so the fact that they did it last season, I feel like it just opens the door to

something so interesting. And I think they know they don't want to completely move out extra players, let's say, because, you know, they had all those injuries. They had to make up for it. But at the end of the day, like, you can make the in-season deals like they did for Olimada and make adjustments on the fly if necessary. And you can't sit on players that you're not going to address if they have a lot of value elsewhere. So I'm very impressed by what they did in the first year. I know it's like it might sound weird because at the end of the day, they didn't go further than they did before. But it just feels like things are coming together in the right way.

And I think that there can be a lot of excitement around them this year. Yeah. And they just extended Mada. They brought back coal as well for another year. They've got Demetri Simashev, who they took sixth overall coming as well. And so there is a log jam there. And all of a sudden, if you start putting together a package around Kesselring, Machelli, and let's say that, Rangers, 2026 second, which is a useful asset,

all of a sudden, I think that's going to get you into a lot of fascinating conversations. And the reason why I think they need to be aggressive about this is Nick Schmaltz is entering the final year of his deal. He was second on the team in usage last year amongst forwards. And I think they can upgrade that and potentially have a line with whoever they add here. on the left wing with Cooley and Gunther and then bump that line with Keller and Hayden potentially to a second line and all of a sudden now I think you're really you know you're participating in the deep end all of a sudden now with a lot of these actual contenders and it would make for a fascinating second year in Utah um all right here's next team on my list the Carolina hurricanes they have

26 7 million in capspace brent burns and demetri or a lover their ufas and you know burns clearly by the end of it should not have been playing on the top pair with Slavin and really should have stayed away from the power play in its entirety. They have Nekishin and Scott Morrill ready to step into full-time roles. They have three firsts over the next two years after the rant and trade with Dallas. They have a deep prospect pool that they can, you know, comfortably tap into without actually risking depleting it entirely. And we'll see that I think there's certainly going to be very high on the Marner sweepstakes in terms of the UFBA pitch they make to him. clearly a nice stylistic fit because he's got some playmaking ability or a lot of playmaking

ability that would help them. But he's also got the defensive utility and is a good forechecker and would certainly be trusted by Rod Brindamore right away. And if Marner is going this route of let's say signing a two or three year deal so you can get back into the market when the cap is over 110 million and he's 30, 31 years old, Carolina's probably eating that up, right? Because it avoids the risk of when he's 34, 35 and paying him a premium, but it still helps them while they're making conference finals and on the precipice of breaking through even further. And so whether it's him or Eelers, that's interesting to me. I'm curious to see if they engage in an Eric Carlson conversation because I still think

aside for maybe Dallas and it's trickier for the stars to make the money work there, that's probably the most logical fit for me in terms of having a guy like Slav and insulate him, generating offense from the back end, getting their forwards, the puck in better spots, the way I think Carlson still can, and the way his contract is structured after his signing bonus is paid,

he's owed just $4 million this year and 7.5 in his final year, and they can just, Pittsburgh wouldn't even theoretically need to retain money on that because they have the cap space to soak up the full extent of that deal. So there's a lot of moving parts here.

I think Carolina's going to explore a lot of them, and I'd like to see them at at least one or two impact players to take them seriously as a cop contender heading into next season. Okay, so we're two for two on the overlap because I did have them too. I think it's really interesting their offseason. I think the discourse around the Keynes, like, you know, you're seeing some people say

they're the Buffalo Bills of NHL teams because they just can't get it done when it matters most. And then you're also seeing some kind of say, well, the system isn't working and that's the problem. And part of me looks at and goes, there are ways you can tweak the system, right? And I know on too many men, we talked about this. And Allison said, maybe the man-on-man defense is just too taxing. And I think that's a good conversation to have because it's one thing getting through an 82 game season,

but now to have to grind it out through four rounds in the playoffs against the best teams in the world. Like, you know, that can be a problem. But I don't think they need to completely tear it down either. I think the difference between a team like them and, say, the Florida Panthers, who have an aggressive system that they play to. And it's that team buy-in up and down that allows them to maintain it year over year is the talent within it, right? because you look at the Canes core and I think you could say it's Ahoslavin

and if you want to throw Svetrnikov in at this point go off but you see how they interchange so many players their entire second pair last year of Pesci and Che are gone and you know they don't have a true 2C so the Panthers at core is so much bigger that you're building around with your supplemental pieces and I think the canes just need

more skill in that you know that top group and then if your third pair is Sean Walker and Shane Gauthorsbyr and you feel you can interchange them every year in your fourth line, like, go off. That's the way to do it. But you need more at the top of your lineup for those players to revolve around.

So I'd really like to see them get more aggressive this year. I think Eric Carlson is a really great idea for them too, because, yeah, you can have got the spear and he can still be a Power Play 1 quarterback. But if you have Eric Carlson, like, that's even more dynamic to have. Like, why not go for it? I don't think that there's anyone there. They don't have him a Macar or a Fox, someone like that that's saying, you can't change who's on PowerPlay 1.

I think someone like Bowen Byram could make sense for them too, especially with Orlov leaving. I think with Slavin there, it kind of will shield him from playing the toughest minutes if you need. And then, you know, you could play him in that like mid-range role. And I think, too, he brings offense and some puck moving ability to the second pair, which I don't think they have enough of right now. But up front, you know, you look at it and you go there, they could use a two-see. They could use another top six winger without a doubt to play with Svetchnikov and Jarvis. So, and sorry, that's another one of the core play. and Jarvis, I completely skipped over him.

But you know what I mean? Like, you know, I think, I think that there's ways to upgrade really key positions and spend the calf space they have and make those investments and then let the rest of the team you kind of rotate around and take over a little bit more than thinking like, okay, this is Jordan Stall and Jordan Mark and Martin's team. Like those are supporting guys around the big guns that you're going to have. Yeah, I think they're decently set up on the wings actually. I think they can't really justify the center depth.

if they want to be taken seriously as a cup contender, beyond Aho as currently constructed, because there's just so much overlap in terms of skill set from Stahl at this point, and Kalka Knaemi in particular, and you're just not getting enough offense there. So I, Drenz brought this up, and I'd be watching, if I were them,

what's going on in Vegas, right? Because if they do wind up being the Marner team, even if Petrangelo goes an LTIR and his 8.8 is taken off the board, they still only have about 18 million in cap space. I imagine three quarters of that would go to Marner. And so whether it's Nick Hague, who's due for a big RFA payday, or them trying to shed either Barbershev's $5 million, potentially William Carlson's 5.9,

although I know they love him and would be very reluctant to move that, or maybe getting crazy and going Tomash hurdles, 6.75 over five years. I think there's going to be some interesting guys that they can soak up there, and there's just so few teams who just made a conference final the way they did that have the amount of resources and cap space they have to facilitate all this stuff. And so that's why they're near the top of both of our respective lists. All right, Shane, let's take our break here.

And then when we come back, we'll jump right back in a way. We're going to go through the rest of our most interesting teams to watch this offseason. You're listening to the Hockey P.D.O.cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. All right, we're back here in the Hockey-Docast, joined by Shana Goldman. We're doing our most interesting teams for this upcoming off season. Shana, we both had the Utah Mammoth and the Carolina Hurricanes on our list. Who's next on yours? We need someone who's not on one of our other ones so that we can go back.

and forth a little bit more here as opposed to just essentially reciting each other's lists. Okay. I'm going to go at Colorado. Do we have overlap? I don't. I don't have the abs. So there you go. Okay. Okay. I think that this was such an interesting year for them. I think we all were intrigued by the fact they were able to turn over their entire goal-tending situation in season. But the Ransan and Deal, I think when it seemed like he was going for $14, $15 million, it made an element of sense for them to not pay that necessarily. and then obviously things went a little bit south, including getting beaten by ranting and when it mattered the most in game seven.

So, you know, now it's like they need to like redeem themselves for that. And they made so much roster turnover last year and they don't have a lot to work with. You know, you have now Landis Gogg back on the books because he is back to playing, which is a great thing to have, right? To have him for a full season so he can be truly at full strength for the next postseason. and like that is great for them. But, you know, it's another year of Charlie Coyle. They decided to extend Brock Nelson, who I think only showed glimpses of the player that he is there.

I don't think he got a fair shake there. I think there was a lot of like changing around to figure out the right combinations that I think he's a really good player and we'll get a chance to show it. But, you know, you look at this core and you go, okay, and you look at some of the supporting cast, like these aging players, right? Like, Nichchchkin's 30 and he still has years left on his deal. And now Nelson gets the extension at age 33. And Charlie Coil's 33 years old. And you go, okay, so if you're going to do something, like your best bet is to do it sooner than later, right?

And because you think of the contracts around McCar and McKinnon. So I'm curious how they're going to navigate it. They have a lot of modified no trade clauses to work around. And then you look at their cap space and it's very slim. And you look at their drive capital. And they have a 2027 first. and a 2027 second, but they have no other top three picks in the next three years already. And if you're an opposing general manager, it's kind of the same as Tampa Bay, where you get to this

point and you go, wow, you're trading out picks from 2026 or 2027 already. If you're an opposing GM, you should be jumping at the chance at those picks because you're going to predict that this team's window will start falling and closing that those picks have a, you know, higher percentage chance of being decent, right? and in that top 15 versus pick 29 or 30. So I'm curious how far out they're going to be willing to spend, if necessary, to bring in talent or maybe move out some contracts, because I think that they have a lot of work to do at this point when,

I mean, I thought they were going to be unstoppable. Like, I had them going all the way if they could get past Dallas, who was hurting when they went into, you know, round one. I think that they need some redemption. And I think the fact that the stars are kind of figuring out ways to make deals without, I don't know trading Jason Robertson and doing the right thing. You know, they might not take that step back. So it's going to be that much harder for Colorado then.

I think that's very fair. They've got $1.2 million in caps base. Now, it sounds like Logan O'Connor was going to start the year on LTIR. And so that maybe buys them another 2.5 or so. But you're right. They pretty much have 12 forwards under contract with Landiscag back now. They've got the five defensemen on the books. They still have Sammline's key as an RFA.

so we'll see what happens there. But no first round picks, no second round picks in, or even third round picks in the next two drafts. They moved Cal Richie, of course, to get Nelson, who they extended for three years at 7.5. I'm very curious, the coil and his 5.25 is interesting for the one final year. I think what happens with Marty Natchez as well is going to be worth monitoring because there's been a lot of smoke around his reluctance to sign long term and what that's going to look like. Obviously, we know what they paid to get him, I think, despite another disappointing. postseason for him in that series against the stars, how prolific he looked playing with McKinnon in the regular season prior to that. And so there's a lot of moving parts there. I think they're

going to be very good again. I didn't have them on my list just because I think there's certainly a creative organization. As we saw this past year, they're going to be very active in exploring everything. And I wouldn't be surprised to see them make some actual roster trades from some of these guys. Yet at the same time, they're locked in much more than a lot of these other teams that have more resources and flexibility with what they already have. So that's why I didn't have them on my list, but I think your logic is very sound, and certainly I'll be watching them very closely. All right, next team on my list, let's go with the New Jersey Devils, who are up to 14.4 million in cap space now after dumping Hollas 3.15 on Nashville, I think

there's further cap clearing that's going to come here, whether it's Andre Palat and his 6 million. He's actually owed less than 9 million total in actual dollars over those next two years. Dougie Hamilton is a very interesting one to watch, right? Because after the Kovicevich extension. They have Pesci, Stiganthaler, Kobasevich, and then Luke Hughes, who's an RFA, all locked up their long term. And then I think they're very reluctant to do what we just said. Anaheim did with Trevor Zegris and Selo and Simo Nemitz after disappointing sophomore season. And then Seamus Casey as well in his ELC. So they have a lot of a lot of parts there on the blue line. And Dougie Hamilton, considering his age and the A.V, I think, is the most expendable of the bunch. Now it's a pretty expensive ticket at 9.5. And I'm a 9 million A.V. But once they pay the July 1st signing bonus, he makes $1 million in actual cash this year, which would be very enticing for a lot of teams out there and less than 15 million total for the length of the deal. We'll see if they move one of those young defensemen instead and maybe package it with Mercer, who makes $4 million over the next two years and is still a 24-year-old.

I think they clearly, though, getting Jack Hughes back and getting healthier after all the guys they lost and had one-on-one series against Carolina, just need to fix the offense. this team, right? We saw what, when they were healthy and at their best, what they were capable of defensively under Sheldon Keith with Jacob Marksman behind it in that. Before the year, 1.67, 515 goals per 60 from their bottom six with a 40% goal share. So when Jack Hughes and Nico Hissier weren't out there, they were essentially as bleak offensively as like the 2019 Edmonton Oilers. And I know how much we all spoke about that at the time and what a team building problem that was. They big time overcorrected that last summer,

Tom Fitzgerald did, trying to add kind of glue guys and complimentary players to help some of these young skill guys they have. And in doing so completely course correct them and move them off of what made them special previously. And so I'm not sure what they're going to do in that regard. I think they're also going to be very hesitant to make any sort of big commitments because they're clearly eyeing the summer of 2027 when a 20-year-old Quinn Hughes will be a UFA and we'll see whether they try to make a move on that before that or wait it out. and keep those parts so they can improve elsewhere as well as landing him. We'll see what they wind up doing there, but they've got a lot of options. They clearly have a ton of upside. I think they're eighth in Stanley Cup odds at this point heading into next year,

and we know what the best version of them is capable of at least theoretically. So I think they're a fascinating team to watch because I think they're going to be active. There's very obvious improvements they can make particularly up front, and they have a lot of moving parts where they can facilitate a lot of it if they so choose to right now. Yeah, so I didn't have them on my list. So now we've balanced it out with the overlap. They're definitely interesting because, you know, Andre Pallat, they brought it in as, he's a 16 game player, right?

And you can have those. You look at something like Corey Perry and Edmonton and he's exactly that, but you don't want to be paying that $6 million at the end of the day, right? Like, you need to have more cost-effective players who are going to help you get to the playoffs. And then if you're going to be that playoff guy, you better crush it in the postseason. I don't think he has enough. He did it enough this year. The other name that's interesting to me is Dawson Mercer

because I know we're both big fans of his game and we've talked about him before of how he shouldn't be a trade piece because he brings something that the other guys don't. But I just, I think, I really thought he was going to bounce back this year and he didn't. And it's tough because if he can't shake it as a top six winger,

there's a logical stop for him, that spot for him as the 3C. He wasn't that. Eric Allen was that. He was a third line winger. And I just think it's a total, waste of what he brings to the lineup then. You either want him to be able to be your 3C and then you really solidify your center depth or he's a top six winger. If there's not a role for him,

then you need to find someone else who's going to do it and, you know, let him cook somewhere else. I feel like they could use a left winger. I think they should keep Timom Meyer on his right. I think that's where he plays his best. And I think with brat, you can put him anywhere and you know he's going to be good. But if you could put someone in that top six that's not plot and you know you don't need to turn to guys like tatar who if i remember correctly already signed in switzerland for next year right so he's out of the picture you know it's that middle six that i'm looking at going how do you improve that right and they are they're going to be guys out there like the ealers of the world that could make a lot of sense for them or a petrka but i think that they need

to get creative to find more scoring because when the power play dried up in the postseason which you should expect to happen when you're going to play the canes with their pk and you can't even bank on that because generally speaking there aren't as many penalty calls as you know in the postseason especially as they go on so you you can't just hope your power play is going to carry you you need more even strength offense i think that'll be a big thing and if you get the right pieces in your middle six it'll knock everyone down a slot into a better you know better more fitting position and i and then i think you worry about the defense later right like just fix your forward group and try to build a strength to balance what you have on both ends of the eyes yeah when you're

paying Jack Hughes and Eco Hissier of 15.25 combined over the next two years. There's so much opportunity to improve their team and they'd be wise to take advantage of it. I'm with you in terms of the wing talent. I'd also add third line center because I think it goes hand in hand. Well, you mentioned about Mercer, right, where when he was playing on the wing with that top six compared to what he looked like when he maybe had to drive a third line more, I think it was night and day. And so we just saw what the Panthers did with that Lundell, Lusterian, in Marshand Line and how valuable that was for them. And if they're going to be in this tier of actual contenders and winning playoff games and

playoff rounds, I think they're going to need to improve there. And I still want to bet on Mercer considering the age. And I think what he's theoretically capable of, but there's no doubt a disappointing season. And something we've seen so far this offseason is a 24 year old in that sort of four million-ish dollar range is a valuable asset in league circles because there's upside. but also it's kind of cost control and a fixed salary. And so that would just be a piece where I wouldn't love to move them,

but it's probably the thing that opens a lot of doors for you if you're going to make a big upgrade at some of these positions of need. Okay, who's next on your list? We've got about 10 minutes left. Let's try to rattle rapid fire style through at least a couple more teams here. All right. Columbus Blue Jackets. I think sometimes when you're in the playoff picture,

it can give management the wrong idea, right? I think about the Blackhawks in the year of the bubble, the expanded playoffs. That's why they made it. And I think they took what they did. And we're like, okay, we're ready to build in this direction and they weren't and it really put them back. I think the blue jackets are more realistic, right, about what their true trajectory is.

And I think that there is a lot more to build on from the regular season. You know, you look at the offense, the rush ability, how well Dean Eveson looked there and the growth from some of their players. And you're, you know, you're learning, again, that Marchanko is the real deal. And he's stringing together now consecutive good seasons together. And Sean Monaghan, when he's healthy, how effective he can be. And I think that they have a lot of good players here. And you could see a full season of Zach Wrenski healthy.

That is your Norris caliber, heart trophy caliber guy. Like, you have a good foundation. I like that they didn't do anything crazy at the deadline last year. I like that they, if I remember correctly, I saw Don Waddell in an interview and he was saying they wanted to take the temperature of the room essentially. And they didn't want to rock the boat too much after everything the team has been through and how good they were and bonded together. You don't want to break that apart at the wrong time.

and I think they did the right thing with that. I think in the off season, you can make those bigger changes and give everyone a chance to settle on it and come into camp together and start that way. So I wonder what they do here. I think they could use another true top six winger. And I think that they have young players that they could move on from, if necessary,

to make it work. I think that they have assets to move. They obviously have a ton of cap space. And I think that there's something that they could build on to push this team further than last year. and, you know, not just be that surprised team, like come into it hot and just keep progressing. I had the blue jackets on my list. They were fourth.

They have 40 million in cap space. They're holding the 14th and 20th overall picks. They have a lot of options in that, right? Remember the epic run, Jetgreaves. I went on down the stretch to carry them to within a couple points of making the playoffs. Elvis Merslickens, who has publicly stated that he would like to get moved or at least did previously for a while. his contract looks unmovable, but now 5.4 million for two years with how dire the goalie market is in free agency, all of a sudden becomes interesting. Provorov and Fabroa UFAs,

Gibranson's 4 million is expiring. They traded Eurocheck as well. And so I think they're pretty set on the left side moving forward with Werenski and what we saw from a Tacheck in his rookie year, but looking for similar to what Buffalo is facing right now, looking for long-term, right-handed defenseman solutions that can play with those guys and thrive in those minutes is going to be key. I'd like to see them go along on our guy, Dimitri Varankov this summer because they went the three-year bridge route with Marchenko last summer, and there's so much opportunity cost there. And it's a decision that's going to cost them, I think, down the road in terms of how much money they could have saved. I'd like to see them also leverage potentially coal cylinder into one of these pieces that could help them improve them, right?

Because he's still 22 years old and he only makes 2.25. But considering the pedigree and the youth and that contract, I think he'd be very appealing to a lot of teams. And I feel like they could leverage that into, I think, improving their team in better ways. So we mentioned Kesselring earlier. I'm going to dream of a fit there of Kessel Ring being on that right side with either Werenzky or Mate Chuck and dominating in those minutes. But yeah, the blue jackets are very interesting to me. I've got the sharks for slightly similar reasons, right? They have 42 million in cap space. They have four picks in the first two rounds in each of the next two drafts, including second overall. They don't have.

of a single defenseman signed to an NHL deal after this season. After the summer of, or in the summer of 27, 27, Tomas Hurdell's retention at 1.3875 is going to be the last vestige of that previous era of Sharks hockey. Everyone else is going to be off the books by then. And that's the same summer as Celebrity and Will Smith are going to be up for second deals. So maybe they're going to be more intriguing then. But we've seen Mike Greer be very active in terms of, you know, buying useful players who are distressed assets for generally financial reasons or fits on their current teams.

like he did with Walman and Lilligrin and Granlin and then monetize all of those. And I'd like to see them add skilled, high-paced defensemen who can get their young forwards, the puck in advantageous positions so they can thrive, right? They're not really going to be blocking any young defensemen if they add a couple guys there. And they have Mario Ferraro, who's pretty expendable considering he'll be a UFA at 27 years old next summer. and I think teams would covet him. And so whether it's them being the Dougie Hamilton team or a Keandre Miller team, I think there's going to be guys available that fit that mold for them.

And I'd like to see them add them for not only the dividends this summer, but moving forward as well as all these young guys who are coming in, really develop and take on their full form three, four years from now. Okay, so they weren't on my list. But when you said, you know, could they be the Kandra Miller, Dougie Hamilton teams like it definitely rings for me because I think that what they did to separate themselves from Chicago in the beginning of this was to make sure

that they're NHL caliber players around them, right? Like, Cody Tisi, for all that you can criticize them on, and you can, if he's absorbing minutes so other players don't have to, that's something the sharks needed, right? If he's going to, he can take them on and just shield

other players from doing it. You know the results are going to be bad, but it really doesn't matter for you in his minutes, right? You just have to get by and you have to endure that time. And I think they knew that and, you know, they played it smart in that way, but you also look at guys like Tafoli and Wemberg. Like those are good veteran players who are very capable. Like Tyler Tafoli can be great on a contender.

He could be great on a rebuilding team. Like that's what you want to have there. So if they can make sure that they replace some of what they lost by moving guys like CC and Granland out and even Zetterland to an extent to make sure you don't break apart what you were progressing last year, I think that's going to be really great for them. They don't need to retain salary. They don't need salary or retain to add these guys. They have so much cap space to work with.

So it's something that I think they've been very smart about leveraging and kind of differently than some other rebuilding teams have, right? I think it's different than how the ducks have done it because I think that they're taking those assets and turning them into something that will help facilitate this rebuild. And maybe we'll see them, you know, find those up-and-coming talents who aren't fitting in with their teams and, you know, add them and they can try to make them their own too. They don't have to just take everyone and to have a beer revolving door either. So I'm definitely interested. It feels like the vibes in San Jose were what you want to have for a rebuilding club. I think management deserves credit because I think they were dealt a tough hand and didn't handle it well initially, but then found their footing. And now they have a vision and direction that you go, okay, I'm interested.

And I think the same for someone like Ryan Worsowski. It's like I really liked his first year there. So definitely an intriguing team. Did you have the Buffalo Sabres on your list? I did. Let's go through them real quick. I'm ready to be wrong again, right? Let's do the savers.

What do you got on them? Okay. Every year we're waiting for the Buffalo Savers to do something and turn the corner. And I think we all got so excited by them a couple years ago and they really let us down the last two years. So it's like, okay, maybe we can turn this around right now. I think that they're the team. We're all ready to rally around because when they are good and exciting, it can be electric. Right.

We think of Tage Thompson crushing it and Dylan Cousins had his really good year in Dahlene and Power. Like there's so much potential. It's so exciting. Oh, they don't play defense. Who cares? Because we are greedy people that like goal scoring and crazy saves. And that's what you get with no defense. But obviously, they want to build this a little more sustainably. But I think they lost some of what made them sparkle.

So I want to see them get that back this year. And now with so much buzz around them between Byram and Petirka, it's going to be really interesting to see how they navigate this. Kevin Adams has missed the mark before. I think the Norris for Cousin, trade was one of those times. I think they have some really smart minds in that front office that I want to see them cook a little bit more. And I also think the addition of Kekeleinen is a wild card here because I think Kekeleinen has his flaws as a general manager and he definitely made

mistakes in Columbus. But I think something that's interesting with him is how he has his convictions, but also listens to other voices. And I think you saw different opinions helping in the Columbus front office. The other part of it is he can be very decisive and make big swings. So I wonder if that will kind of balance out the slower approach Adams has taken. And if that'll be a good thing, does that help them, you know, pull the trigger on a Petraca deal? I don't know. But I'm curious here how they manage two situations because with Petirka, like, it feels like that's a trade they could easily lose. But with this swing in your market, there's a way to play it just right and get what you need in return. And the same goes for Byram, who at the end of the day just might not be the perfect fit for Buffalo when you have power and Dahlene already on the left side.

Like could you get a Jordan Spence from L.A.? Could you try to get a Kessler ring like we were talking about from Utah to help the right side? Or could you bring in another center? Because now they might want to play Tage on, you know, more on the wing than center. Or do you just go for a strong winger and then keep him out of his position? I think that they have so many options to go with here. And they have so many assets at their disposal. If they can do it the right way, there are ways. that they could have these home runs and be that exciting team,

like we're all clamoring for with the Canadians. But it's hard to believe it, year after year, you know? Yeah. Last year they were actually 16th in 515 goal share and third in five on five goal generation. Now, what did them in was they were 23rd in the PP, 24th on the PK, and I think some of that masked the steps or how good, especially the guys atop the lineup were for them,

which I think we agree is the most important part in terms of taking a step as an organization. right, whether it was Tage and how good he was again at 515 or Rasmus Dahlin certainly is, you know, cementing himself as a top five, six defensemen in the league. The step, Zach Benson took a year or two, despite the fact that his scoring numbers don't reflect it with how just dominant he was defensively. It really was some of the ancillary pieces and the third pair in particular that did them in. So those are theoretically the most fixable. But this is a team with a ton of cap space and questions of how much of it they're actually going to spend.

They're obviously looking to avoid missing the playoffs for a 15th. straight year and they have a huge crossroads off season ahead, right? I think the Byron Peturka stuff is so fascinating because I'm very divergent on those two. I think Petirka is an awesome player. He was 32nd and 515 points per 60. He had the same number of 5.05 points as Willie Nealander and Adrian Kempe. You look at the tracking data and how good he was as a high danger passer, which I know you noted in your piece. And so he's a guy where I would love to see them retain him. And I don't really view an offer sheet as a threat at this point. Because if someone's going to sign him for $7 million, I'm just instant matching that if I'm them,

and I don't see it really extending beyond that for a first, second, and third, where it would become an interesting decision. Whereas Byram, the splits away from Dali and scare me, and he's a guy who's soaked up a bunch of minutes and put up counting stats, but beneath the hood was not nearly as good. And those are types of players that get paid a lot, considering his pedigree in his age. Yet I'm not sure the substance is actually there to make it worth their while,

so I'd be exploring a trade with him much more than I would with Paterka. but really fascinating stuff. All right, Chana, we got to get out of here. I'm going to let you plug some stuff here on the way out because I know they've been keeping your heart of work at the athletic. You're seemingly churning out a great piece every day now, prepping everyone for the off-season, let them know a little bit about that and kind of some of the stuff you've put out recently.

Yeah, you can read a bunch of trade stories on players like Andrea Miller and Bowen Barham and J.J. Peterka and Jason Robertson, although the Marchmont trade might have changed that one a bit. Just looking at how teams get into those situations, contract stuff, and then potential fits. Otherwise, keep an eye out for trade grades and things like that, signing grades. And I will have like some analysis of Chris Johnston's trade board coming out later this week. So he'll have, you know, the newsy stuff and his.

And I'm going to take that and just kind of help understand what these players do. Because we're going to hear their name circulating so often. So now it's what do they actually bring to a lineup. Awesome. We'll keep with a great work. Looking forward to having you on again soon. Enjoy all these trades and moves that will hopefully be coming in the next week to 10 days. So that's all for us from today.

We'll be back, I believe, tomorrow with another fun show. Lots of fun stuff planned ahead. So see you back here then. Thank you for listening to the HockeyPedioCast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.