The Hockey PDOcast - This Year's Hart Race, Cup Contenders, and Short Kings

Episode Date: April 12, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Pete Blackburn to take mailbag questions about the top of this year's Hart Trophy race, why people don't really care about the President's Trophy the way they should, and what you need to do to be successful as a smaller player in today's game. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Progressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the HockeyPediocast. My name's Dimitri Filippovich, and joining me today is a fellow Kerala Marchenko appreciator, connoisseur of the one true beautiful game. My good buddy, Pete, Blackbird. Pete, what's going on, man? The real Carill, the thrill, baby. Me and you. You know what's so funny. You and I have been doing the beautiful game bit for a while now, and on Twitter now you've got these bots. they're like responding to it talking about soccer because they're clearly just programmed to do so.

And good old Dakota, Dakota the bot, whatever that like Dakota gray or something. Yeah, yeah. It's the same same like a bot account that with AI generated responses. That's like the creepiest thing ever. I know that they're like the porn bots or whatever that are taking over Twitter. But it's the bots that like can actually interpret the general vibe of. what you're tweeting about and give you a response back, hate it, hate that. It's the worst.

They do have some good links in their bio, though. So check those out if you feel inclined to do so. So here's the plan for today. We're going to take some mailback questions. I put the bad signal out. We got a lot of good responses. So we're going to try to get through as many of us as we can today. And let's start with this one.

Intelligent Dice asks, should we care more about the president's trophy? That race isn't really being covered this year. And that's after last season when Boston ran away with it. So this is an interesting one because I think we've sort of been conditioned at this point as hockey fans to just almost dismiss the regular season entirely. There's one team essentially the wins and everyone else had an unsuccessful season. And I hate that sort of logic and the way things have gravitated towards that. But my answer is unequivocally, yes, we should care more about it. But people just don't seem to.

And I think that's why it's not really covered as much. I honestly had to look up to see who's even first in the president's trophy right now, because I know there's a couple of these teams with Rangers and Bruins and Hurricanes all kind of there, and I think the stars are as well. But before I saw this question, I honestly couldn't have even told you who was going to win the president's trophy this season. So, I mean, like, I don't think you should dismiss the president's trophy because obviously it's an incredible accomplishment to be the best team over an 82 game sample. But I also think there's like a two-day window where people actually care about the president's

trophy and it's the gap between the end of the regular season and the start of the playoffs because like once the game one of the playoffs is on TV, nobody gives a damn about the president's trophy or in particular like the regular season as a whole. Like I think that people evaluate teams based off of that 82 game sample. But I mean, we all know that the game changes and playoff hockey is a different beast. Like it's it's kind of like the start of its own season. So I just think there's so many. more things worth covering right now than the president's trophy race.

You've got the heart race. You've got the Eastern Conference wild card bubble. And I think that that's probably why the president's trophy has taken a backseat, understandably so. Which is wild because we're playing 82 games and the team that wins the president's trophy is by definition the best team this season. Now, that might not necessarily be your definition of it as soon as the playoffs start, right? Because it is that kind of blank slate.

And in particular, you've got teams. kind of gearing up towards it, you might not be seeing their best shot right now, depending on their position. But it feels like it should be more prestigious. And it's a shame that there isn't a bigger reward for it. In my opinion, I think those two kind of go hand in hand, right? Because I think if there was some sort of real, like a real gift, I guess, to winning the present trophy beyond just like hanging the banner after the season, like a buy or like picking

your opponent or like having more home games. right? Like, let's say you had five home games instead of four an opening round or something like that to actually give you a bit of an edge against the competition. Maybe we'd see teams actually try more and care more about it and then fans would care more. But as it's sort of slated right now, I guess you get home ice throughout. But it's really not that much of an edge compared to finishing second or third in your conference. Yeah. And I also think this year is a bit of an interesting year in that like, no matter who wins the president's trophy, I don't, I don't necessarily think it's going to change the way people look at them because at the top of the league, there are so many good teams that are very closely grouped together. Like, there's not a ton of separation there.

Whereas in years past, I feel like there's typically the team that wins the president's trophy, you can identify as being like the best team all year. And this year, no matter who it's assigned to, I'm not sure that we're going to look at them. and remember them a couple of years down the line and be like, oh, yeah, they were the best team in the league that year during the regular season. I think it's just going to be a matter of like one or two points separating a bunch of teams. And in that case, like, I don't think the president's trophy means a whole lot.

Well, it doesn't. And it's kind of almost treated as a jinx at this point where you've got people being like, oh, I don't want my team to get the president's trophy because it means we're not actually going to win what we care about most, which is a Stanley Cup. And that's actually also wrong because I think you're still statistically most likely to win the Stanley Cup from that president's trophy slot as the best team in the regular season. Now obviously because of the nature of the playoffs and the clean slate and the fact that anything can happen over best of seven, it doesn't guarantee you anything. But you're still like as the best team in the regular season with the most points more likely to win the Stanley Cup as that team than two through 16 essentially. Right.

So I think that's an important thing to know. Well, often too, like the team that wins the president's trophy, like the, yeah, of course, the, the president's trophy is seen as a curse and a jinx and whatever. But like often the team that wins that is not playing a lot of meaningful games at the end of the season because of that separation factor that typically exists. And, you know, I think that that does hurt teams. Like you talk about the Bruins. You talk about like the lightning when they were clear, clear separate from the rest of the league. They didn't play a lot of meaningful games at the end of their season. And then they flamed out in the first round.

So, like, maybe that's part of, of the recipe there for the disappointment. And maybe it doesn't apply this year because all of these teams are playing still, still playing meaningful games. No, you're right. I mean, the Rangers have been trying to hold off the hurricanes, right, for first in their division and first in the East. And then the stars who are one point back of the Rangers of three games left, each have been battling with versus with the jets. And then more recently with the abs for first in the central as well, right? So they actually have been trying their best theoretically. It's funny though.

I talk about the reward and kind of the incentive. Like the stars are one point back of the Rangers right now. They very plausibly could be this year's president's trophy winner and their reward for it could be the Vegas goal of the nights in round one. And not that I'd be scared of that because I actually think they match up pretty well with them. There's so much depth and so much speed compared to Vegas. And Vegas, as you watched against Edmonton last night, like they're not playing their best hockey by any means right now. And we'll see what their lineup looks like in day one of the playoffs. But that just goes to show you and illustrate kind of like you play these 82 games, you get this accomplishment and your award is essentially good luck.

Here's a 55 or 60 percent of likelihood that you advance to round two and you might actually just be done after this one series. So it's kind of counterintuitive. Okay. Here's the next question for you then because I think it kind of ties into that. And it goes, considering how close the heart raises this season as well as just generally performances around the league being so high, do you consider this the best regular season in the Stanley Cup era? And what would it take in the playoffs for it to be the best NHL season of the salary cap era period?

How do you feel about this? Because it certainly feels like I think this has been a topic of discussion recently. It certainly has been a wildly entertaining season. You've got three players with 130 plus points right now. And it's certainly as competitive and prolific of a hard trophy race as I can remember. And every single night, it seems like one of these guys is just doing something remarkable. and either getting four or five points or putting together a bunch of highlight real plays.

So it's been a highly entertaining season, but I guess it's kind of tough to, because I don't even remember what I had for breakfast yesterday. So I don't remember what the 2016 regular season was like by any means. But I guess, recently biased, it has been the most entertaining one I can remember. Yeah, I'm right there with you.

And like even to the point where I can't remember things that happened a few days ago. So I'm not going to have some bold proclamation that this is the best season. ever or the best season in my lifetime. But it is certainly the best that I can remember in a long time. And I think, you know, from a personal level, it's, it helps too that this is the most locked in. in, I've been into an NHL season on a day-to-day basis because I am doing a daily show now. And like, the thing that I'll say is, is that this season has not really lacked anywhere

across the board. You've got unbelievable individual performances. You've got great parody across the league and at top of the league. you've got really juicy storylines from like the Cutter Gochiie thing. You've got like the season started with Mike Babcock being fired. Like from even before day one of the season, you had juicy storylines. And now we're heading to the finish line and we got a relocation. Like there has not been many boring days at all across the board this season.

And like great individual performance, great teams. A lot of parody. Even, you know, you've got the Eastern Conference wild card, which has gotten insane. So, yeah, I absolutely believe that this has been, if not the most entertaining season in a long, long time. It's very near the top. And I think we're pretty blessed right now as hockey fans. Well, on the quality of the product itself is as good as it's ever been, right? Like, I know people get, like, nostalgic about, like, the good old days and stuff.

But, like, let's be real. Just watching what these guys are doing every single night. It almost, it would have been, like, impossible. to fathom even like five or six years ago. And now you're just, they're casually just doing it every single night to a point where like, Dreisaito scores again on that sort of patented, uh, power play one timer from an odd angle last night. And then I was just like looking at it. I was like, oh yeah, he's just shot 20% over the past six years now. And I remember when I first started doing this in like the early 2010s, it was like anyone that was shooting above like 10 or 11%,

you'd be like, man, this guy's a very efficient sniper. Like they're doing a really good job out there and I've just got these guys who are really just like changing and elevating the baseline of what is reasonable and what we should expect moving forward. And he's not even in anywhere near like the top six or seven of the Hart Trophy, which we're going to talk about in a second year as a follow up question. And so that just goes to show you like how deep and talented and prolific the entire league has been and the product itself is as good as it's ever been. So in that sense, like we always get mad at the NHL for like the way it conducts business and how backwards it is and sometimes it shoots itself in its own foot but on the one hand the actual hockey

itself once the game start being played are just on a sale of yeah yeah and and it does feel like things have shifted in terms of of like what's what's considered good i mean i tweeted a few weeks ago like not too long ago if a guy hit 40 goals he was like an elite elite elite top of the league goal scorer i mean jami ben finished you know with 87 points and was at the top of the league. But like 40 goals was like an unbelievable mark. And there have been so many times throughout the course of this season where I've been stunned to to kind of realize how many guys are close to that threshold or close above 30 goals. You know, we're talking about Austin Matthews hitting 70 talking about Connor McDavid having 100 assists.

Like you take away all of his goals and he's still a hundred point player. The league has changed. And I think change for the better, you know, you probably don't agree if you're a goaltender. But like the league has changed for the better from an entertainment standpoint for sure. It certainly has. You mentioned McDavid scoring, getting 100 assists there. He obviously missed last night's game. We'll see when he comes back.

But I do find it very funny. This only reinforces the point you just made where we had like, we've been talking about Austin Matthews's goal scoring and deservedly so. And like whether you get the 70 for a while now, right? And then McDavid just went on that crazy assist. barrage and then everyone was like, we should really be talking more about how impressive it is, the McDavid's going to get 100 assists, considering how few people have done it in history and how long it's been. And then now Nikita Kutrault might literally get to 100 assists before Connor McDavid does. Like any day now, he just needs like two more good games and he's probably going to get it

because he's just churning out three assists games every single night seemingly. So yeah, you just got this situation where guys are just one-upping each other. And it makes for incredible theater. But I also like want to see like, I don't think there's any sort of logic. cap to it necessarily. Like we might get to a point and this ties into the first question where we haven't really seen load management for the most part coming to the NHL, right? But you're going to get to a certain point where especially as some of these guys

get older into their 30s and stuff where the incentive for like regular season dominance just isn't there if you've already gotten your individual accolades and stuff. And so you might just start seeing guys playing a bit less just to preserve themselves. And so we might see that might be the only kind of cap or ceiling for some of this production, but otherwise, like, I don't see why these players couldn't just keep doing this next year and the year beyond as things just get more and more talented and skilled. There was a brief conversation about, like, what's more impressive, 70 goals or 100 assists in a season.

And I think that conversation really, really took a hit when there were two guys entering into the 100 assists conversation. And, like, a lot of people's point was like, you know, it's much more rare in NHL history. to have 100 assists in a season, then 70 goals, which may be true. But to have two guys pushing 100 assists in one season, whereas only one guy in a long, long time has even made 70 goals a conversation is, I think that kind of answers the question. Okay, well, then here's a follow up to that. The question goes, even though Pastornak and Panarin won't be finalists for the heart,

should they be ahead of Matthews in the heart race, I think they should both be in the top five. Now, I don't think so because I think Matthews is clearly in that top four tier. At the same time, though, I feel like there's also been a clear top six here. And that's a bit of a cop out. But like, I've been saying this for a while now. And in my Discord, I included Panarin in this like a month or two ago. And I got pushed back from some listeners of the show being like, you know, the dragon meme where there's like the two really like scary looking ones and then kind of the goofy one.

And they're like, that's Panarin here. I'm like, I actually just watch a Rangers game or actually look at. the totality of his work, like he is right there with all these guys in terms of how much he's carried this team offensively. That top six is outrageous. It's certainly as deep and talented a group as we've ever had in this. So I don't think it's an knock by any means. But I really do think, like, Matthews is clearly in that other tier because he's not only pushing the 70 goals. He's an elite chance generator. He's a phenomenal defensive player. He's just an absolute beast like he wins any single 50 50 puck battle he engages in and just just dominates along the

boards in the neutral zone everything so i i think he's clearly there but how do you feel about this question as a as obviously a a pastor nag and bruns fan in particular yeah i mean the to the first part like assigning the goofy dragon to anybody in that top six is extremely disrespectful because like maybe some guys don't have as you know airtight a case as maybe a um you know a uh a a McKinnon or McDavid or a Coutroff, but there are a lot of guys having absolutely insane seasons that are extremely important to their team. And, you know,

it's a crazy heart race even beyond the three guys that are going to finish as finalists. So, you know, that's awesome. I think Matthew's case is one. It's weird because if he hits 70 goals, I think it's undeniable that he kind of has to be a hard finalist because just hitting the 70 goal threshold is insanely impressive. But isn't it even nicer if he gets the 69?

Technically, yeah, like, I know it's a sex number, but 70 is so clean and so impressive. And it just, when was the last time we saw a guy have a goal total double digits that started with a seven? It was 31 years ago. To do that now, like, I think it's Matthews is one of the best shooters that we've ever seen hit the ice. And I just think that 70 goals has to be at this point in time, like an automatic bid for heart consideration and maybe heart finalist. I don't know who you take out of that conversation with like with McKinnon, McDavid,

and Kutrov, but I don't know. I'd be hard pressed to say that Matthews doesn't deserve it if he hit 70 because that's an insane accomplishment. He's also, it's so automatic too. I remember like maybe a couple weeks ago he was looking at it and it was like, all right, he has like 59 goals and he's got 11 games left. He needs a goal per game or something. It was like around there.

And then he's literally just been like, all right, no problem. And just gotten one goal every single game since. And now he's got two empty net goals. Two empty net goals. And I think it's an important point to make here because we've seen some massive goal scoring seasons in the past from players who clearly were not one dimensional, but we're like very offensively oriented. And in this case, like, I legitimately think he's just so impressive off the puck as well

and his command of the ice and everything and his range and like just steals and everything that it's so well-rounded. And I'm not sure if you agree with this because on the one hand, the Leafs fan base is so massive in volume and also in noise. But also it's such a divisive team in that sense that there's so many detractors that I do. I think it's fair. I think Jayfresh tweeted this, but I completely agree with it. Like if he was playing on the Predators or one of these kind of like trendy T or like the stars right now and he was doing this,

it will be such like a universally appreciated like no doubt about it. This is just an unbelievable performance we're seeing. And then now like every time you actually just tweet about Matthews, you're always going to have people being like, oh, like, what about the playoffs or kind of like making like the easy jokes like that? And so it actually does feel like it's being a little underrated or under a pretext. appreciated from a whole league wide perspective. I'm sure not in Toronto, but from a whole league wide perspective because of that.

Yeah. And it's also been like, it's been consistent, right? So it's not like, oh, man, this guy's coming out of nowhere and pushing. Yeah. And so, yeah, maybe there is something to do that. And maybe it's a little bit rich coming from me,

but people do rush to hate on the Maple Leafs anytime they do anything, even close to impressive with the easy fallback of like, well, wait till they do it in the playoffs. I mean, just based off of that, let me ask you. because I don't necessarily have an answer here,

but like if he hits 70 and it counts as an automatic bid or you want to put him as a finalist, who do you take out? Well, I don't think it's an automatic bid because I really don't think if he got 68 or 69, it would be any less impressive, in my opinion. 70 is a nice round number, and I get that it hasn't been done in such a long period of time. But I would just have a really tough time

just because that top three has just been so good as well. and that's not a knock against anyone because I really think this top six in general is that good. So I would have him fourth on my list, but it's airtight in terms of those. I did want to like the reason why included this question though is because you talk about kind of the novelty of it and the fact that it's already happened in terms of Matthew scoring 60 goals. So it's like it's not necessarily a new thing. Pasternak had that season last year, right, where he absolutely exploded. He scored 60 himself. he scored a ton of points.

He got paid very handsomely. And he's just followed it up again this season essentially. After not only the expectations of that, but losing so much talent around him and just watching him play now, I do think he's grown so much as a passer and a playmaker and how much the offense runs through him now. And I feel like just because of what the other guys have been doing from like blowing our minds with the actual raw counting stats,

it's flown a bit under the radar. but his importance to this Bruins team. Like, I feel like if you subtracted Pastor Nang from the Bruins right now, I don't know how it would consistently get to two goals per game. Like, they would, like, I sure they'd score one, and then they'd eventually just kind of like falter and stumble because he means that much to this team. And every single thing they do offensively essentially flows through him.

Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned the first part of that too, is because I do think that, like, a lot of people are telling on themselves by some of the criticisms that they assigned to David Posternak. Like, you know, in the past, he hasn't been, he hasn't been as well-rounded as he is now. And a lot of people, you know, have criticized his defensive game. But when you look at who David Posternak has become,

particularly with this season and what hasn't been around him, you mentioned it, like his vision with the puck, his playmaking ability, his passing is unbelievable. But I also think that, like, his two-way game is a bit underrated at this point. And it's not amazing, but he's not, he's not the defensive liability that he once was. And a lot of people rush to criticize him as being like a liability in, in the other two zones. And I just don't think that that's a case anymore. I think he's been pretty, pretty solid as, as a defensive and a responsible player.

Yeah, I mean, he's got the 47 goals. He's got 37 primary assists, which is the same number as Panarin. That's top 10 in the league. Sport logic has him fourth in rush chances, second and cycle chances, fourth and four check chances. It just kind of shows you like the versatility and you mentioned the defensive part of thing, like how much he's creating off of takeaways as well. And then he's also 10th in the league and passes into the slot. And just for one player to do all of those things is so impressive to me. And it really shows the growth in his game as well. And like that he's kind of had to,

I'm sure what had to happen organically, but he's had to take it on because of all the guys they've lost over the past year. And so he's having a heck of year. And then Panarin as well. Certainly no Goofy Dragon Man. He is having a phenomenal season. He's got 46 goals. And I've talked about this in the past, but I don't remember a player. He's 32 now. He's been in the league for like a decade turning over like their identity as a player the way he has this season where he essentially came into the year. And there was a lot of criticism about him being like too past happy and not assertive enough in the postseason. And he just said, all right, I'm just going to shoot every single time now. and his previous career high in shot attempts was 470.

He's already got 612 this year. And so for him to just be changing his game and his identity as a player this laid into his career at this age and having this much success doing so, I think that's a very cool story as well. And so that's why he's like very firmly in that top six players this season for me. Yeah, that's definitely, it's definitely worth highlighting. And not just like and not just shooting like one and a half times as well. much. He's also like his shooting percentage is 16%, which is better.

It ties, ties his career high at this point. So, uh, you know, he's like, okay, I don't shoot enough.

Cool. I'm going to almost touch 50 goals this season and still have 70 assists. So like not taking away from the playmaking ability. So, I mean, maybe it's a case of bullying works. Bullying works. We bullied in our.

Me Panarin into realizing his offensive potential as a shooter. I like that. All right. Let's take our break here. And then when we come back, we'll jump right back into the mailbag and keep taking listener questions with Pete. You are listening to the Hockey Pediocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. All right.

We're back here on the HockeyPedioCast. We are doing a listener mailbag. Pete, let's keep going with the questions. I've got one here from Muck. Ask, what is something common we see? among the smaller skaters in the NHL today that elevates their game to be able to play with, quote, unquote, the big boys. I mean, the first person that jumps to mind right now is Logan Stankovin,

who is the small boy on the scene this season. Do you guys have a group chat? I wish, man. No, but the thing that immediately jumped to my mind and talk to Rich Pevely is about this like a month ago on the show, like he's small. of course, but even in his first game, his first two games,

his ability to get to the front of the net and play in the dirty areas, even as small as he is and as young as he is, is incredibly impressive. And I think that that is something that, for any small player that comes into the league from this point on, you show that to them and say,

it doesn't matter if you're undersized, get to the front of the net. And, you know, good things will happen. I know that's like such a tired phrase and turn of phrase, but it's true. Like I don't think that you can be a fully effective player in this league if you're not willing to get to the dirty areas. And for a guy like Logan's take home and to do it from day one in the NHL is extremely impressive. And I think tells you a lot about who he is going to be as a player and kind of the fearlessness to his game. And I think you have to have that fearlessness as a small player.

That's a really good point. Yeah, I've spoken about this topic quite a bit over the past couple weeks with Daryl Belfrey. We do our weekly deep dive and it's a good opportunity for me to plug the YouTube channel as well where you can watch all the shows we do together and see all the archives of the clips we're talking about. But we did Logan Stancoe and recently. We just did Seth Jarvis this week and I lump him in there as well. And the game has changed so much, right? Like these guys are the new nightmares for defenders because all of a sudden now they're just so shifty.

They never stop moving. And so you have to try to keep tabs on them. You're not just like a stationary net front guy anymore. You're like moving in and out of traffic. You're poking away at the puck. Then all of a sudden you're retrieving and circling around the net. You're just, it's a nightmare for them to try to actually stick with them the entire time over the course of a game. And not only have the rules change certainly, but also like the NHL defenders have changed as well because as the league is shifted to more of a skill game and everyone needing to like do certain stuff with a puck to keep up.

it's just like it's less punishing as well not to diminish the fact that if you go to the net especially in the playoffs like you're probably going to take a shot from a defender and even if it's not you know a chris pronger anymore like it's still i'm sure will hurt and there's a reason why not everyone is willing to consistently do so but i do think like it's it's highly rewarding and i think it's very feasible for these players as well and so these guys are becoming like the new net front guys like you've got connor garland working the net front on the power play for the canucks right Another guy I'd lump into this is Zach Benson, who fell to 13th in a very deep draft class last year, certainly. But I know there was teams that were like, ah, but he's still so small.

I don't know what to make of it. And he just watched him play. And then now he's translated all of those things he did in Major Junior last year. He's having a 30-point season, which is impressive as an 18-year-old in the NHL, considering he doesn't play on the power play either. And he's going to be one heck of a player already is. And so these are the types of players. And I personally gravitate towards them. And I love it as well because it reflects how much the game has evolved and changed.

And they're also just so much more fun to watch. So these are the types of players that come to mind. And there's certainly like I think that's like a position that's just going to grow more and more as we move to the future of the NHL. Yeah. And it's like in football, they say low man wins. And you can make the point that like, hey, maybe in the shifting NHL, the net front guy can be low man wins.

And just that like you've got a Logan stank owner, like Connor Garland, that clip that you always sweet at me of Connor Garland, staying low to the ice, being shifty right by the crease. Like low man wins. You can't hit him if he's at your knees. So yeah,

I also wonder like at what point do we see the returns on that for front offices and draft stock? Because so many times guys have fallen in the draft because they're undersized. and it takes a an undersized guy like Connor Bedard who his skill set is undeniable despite his lack of size

like where he doesn't get punished in his draft stock for being small. Yeah, well I think the Lohman wins like in one sense you're quite literally like your proximity to the puck is closer so in a lot of these battles either around the net or like along the boards

you're able to be the first one there and then your center of gravity is still low to your point. It's just really tough to take some of these players off the puck once they get there. And they're like they've got so much like the skating has gotten so good as well with the edge work and like ability of like shift and all this stuff along the boards. And so they're very effective. I do think to the question here of what you see in common though, you don't need to be fast. Like I think that's our perception has changed so much because it used to be like, all right, if you're going to be small, you just have to be an incredible skater. you still need to be an incredible skater,

but no one really cares about how fast you are in straight line anymore. I think it's much more important to be quick, right? Like you got to be able to be the first to the puck and to like accelerate and to stop and start really quickly. And I think that's what these guys have in common as well. And then the work ethic, the motor, the competitiveness, some of that fearlessness you mentioned. It's a wide array of skills certainly,

but I think like the blueprint is there. And it's not really prohibitive in my opinion at all anymore if you're a young player who's undersized. if you've got the skill in the work ethic, you can be one of these guys, and I think that's very cool. Yeah, I'm a little afraid to say that, like, speed is overrated,

but it is a little overrated in today's NHL because everybody is such a good skater, for the most part. A lot of guys are just really good skaters. And how often do you see games turn into, like, north to south, straight line hockey anymore? It's not all that common. Unless you're like a Connor McDavid, or Nathan McKinnon where your first few strides of acceleration

just create an unfathomable amount of separation. The speed is not necessarily one of the first things that I look for and what makes a player great. Yeah, I'm with you. It's more quick bursts because, yeah, you're not really just going to get the sprint up and then on the ice without anyone stopping you very often in an HL game. Okay, here's a question for you.

How do we evaluate seasons guys like Stamco, or Kyle Connor have a player who scores 35 to 40 goals, but their defensive numbers are very bad. Now, I think we just had this whole bit about how like scoring is up so much and players are putting up such crazy offensive numbers. Goal scoring is still very hard. And finding guys who can consistently turn shots into goals is very hard. It's a unique skill.

And that's a reason why they get paid as they do on the open market. So I don't think it's diminished, but I do think teams have sort of wise. up, I guess, to the fact that if you're just giving up a lot of it back, coming back the other way, there's like a point of, there's an opportunity cost or diminishing returns where it's good that you scored, but if you're just giving up a goal against for every goal you score, what did you ultimately really accomplish? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a complex thing to evaluate and discuss because, like, if you're

scoring 40 goals, you have, you have value. Like, it is tangible. And, you know, I don't necessarily think that every. player in the league needs to be extremely well-rounded. Like, you can have one-dimensional players, not saying that those guys are one-dimensional players, but you can have one-dimensional players that are extremely valuable. I think it's on the coaching staff and it's on the front office to recognize when those guys aren't necessarily great the other way and try to soften that as best they can,

whether it's in roster building, whether it's in assigning their linemates or who they share the ice with, whether it's in the matchups that you're trying to get for them out on the ice. But I don't always hold it against somebody for not being great defensively, especially if they are scoring like 30 to 40 goals a year. Yeah. Yeah, obviously, it's very complex. I will say, though, like in the case of a guy like Kyle Connor, he's just been getting like this year he's down 42 to 40 at 515 when he's on the ice

he's essentially been either like neutral or or negative by a couple goals every single season for the past five years and so I know I keep talking about it's on the show but it's just like it drives me crazy when a player like that gets used in a premium role compared to someone a teammate like his Nikola Eilers who's just better and more effective every time he plays yet they get treated differently so teams are a wising up to it but also like it just I guess it matters how you construct your team accordingly, right? Because on the one hand, if you're able to consistently

score goals yourself, you're like individually and directly responsible for it. And it's easy for us to trace that to you. Whereas if you're on the ice for a bunch of goals against, you're still one out of five players technically out there. And so you're not necessarily always directly responsible, but also there's ways to kind of cover for it or bail that player out and put them in player in situations where like you soften the blow of that you can still get value out of their offensive game so it's a very nuanced conversation yeah and and i think it also is a case-by-case basis too because when you when you ring up kyle connor like the thing that drives me crazy about kyle khaner is that a lot a lot of it seems to be an effort thing like there is very often when you look at

kyle k Connor's lack of defensive game you say okay well with even like 20 percent 30% more effort here, you have a fighting chance at preventing a goal. And it's just that that's the kind of thing that drives me insane. Like if a guy is out there giving it, giving it full effort and is not great defensively, I can live with that. But when it's when you're mailing it in and you're giving up stuff the other way, it drives me insane. Well, that's the thing.

I mean, not everyone is going to be Pavl Datsuk defensively as a forward, but quite literally just showing up for the job is such a big part of it and just being close to someone and being in the screen. Be in the way. Yeah, you're instantly going to like stop certain plays from happening just by existing. And oftentimes he's just completely out of frame. I was laughing so hard at this because he scores the overtime winner against the predators the other night.

And in watching that play, I can't remember the last time I saw him skate with such a pep in his step as like, I think it was Mark Sheifley. He got it kind of one on one and he's going up the ice and it's three on. three overtime so there's a lot of space and he realized that if he got on his horse he could join him for a two out of one and score and like he just you put a jetback to him and he's like oh man I'm I'm going to go for this and it's like keep that energy the other way he came back yeah come back and maybe back check once or twice like that and all of a sudden we'll we'll have a different conversation yeah it's that that drives me insane okay I've got a question here about the Bruins that

I'm trying to pull up right now and it essentially just asks why they're disrespected as Stanley Cup contenders and what your opinion on that is. I'll try to find the correct phrasing of it. But in the meantime, how do you feel about that? Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of, it falls into two different reasonings. And the first being fair or not what happened last year, I think that a lot of people will hold that against them,

against them, especially considering what they lost from last year's roster to this year's roster. But I also think part of it is that when you look at the Eastern Conference, I don't think that there's like a true powerhouse in the Eastern conference this season. I know New York's at the top of the standings. I know Florida was great for a pretty good stretch before falling off a little bit. Carolina is right in the mix too. I don't think that there's like a true, true powerhouse in the east.

Whereas like when I look, if you're listing probably like the top five best teams in the in the entire NHL, I think a large majority like at least three or four. coming out of the West, in my opinion. So, like, maybe that's why the Bruins aren't necessarily getting a lot of talk as, as, like, true contenders. But I also think that they're, they're certainly not a team without flaws. And, you know, I, I, even as a Bruins guy in a big time, you know, Bruins, boom, whatever you want to say that I said on live TV. you know, I think that I'm not, I don't have a ton of faith in them being able to make a super deep run primarily because of their inconsistencies and what they lack in depth on the back end.

Yeah, the question here was from Chester and it was why are the Brun's so disrespected in terms of being a Stanley Cup contender? And I get the lot, like the framing of it because when you talk about the team's most likely to win, you're going to get to a handful of them. But like the betting market has them, I believe, is like the sixth or seventh team in terms of their price right now. And I think that's about right. I know they're higher in the standings. They're fourth tied for fourth and point percentage. They're ninth in goal differential. And I think especially that top 10 or so, like it's so open right now and it's going to come down to like match up and bounces and health and stuff that.

if you're in that conversation, that's a good place to be in, but it's really tough to differentiate beyond that. And so I get the concerns about like the center depth, certainly when you compare them to other teams. It's like, I know they've gone by so far. And I just said so much of their game plan runs through the wing anyways. But when you have Zaka and Koyle going head to head against some of the other bigger name players of the position, you're going to get knocked in terms of like our perception of you as a viable Stanley Cup contender. I do think there's also So I'm not sure if you agree with this, but part of their success this season, certainly in the past two years, has just been the fact that they never punt points in the regular season because they always have an elite goaltender or net. And especially now we're seeing teams like using their starter 45, 50 times per season.

And a lot of teams just don't have like the drop off for their backup is so high, whereas for them it's not. and come the postseason, I know that there was a lot of drama last year about like Allmark's Health and then going to Swayman in Game 7 and the idea that backfired even though I thought Swayman played really well in that game 7. But it becomes a bit less. The advantage is mitigated or marginalized a little bit when you're generally going to see teams just ride their one goalie regardless. And there's going to be no back-to-back. And there's going to be day off in between. And so everyone kind of has equal footing in that regard. And so it's a bit less of an advantage compared to the regular season where just having Allmark or Swain in Net for 82 games is just such a luxury that really no other team has.

Yeah. And I will say like I expect the Bruins to handle the goaltending situation miles better than they did last playoff where Montgomery just kept going back to Allmark until it was too late. I think he learned his lesson. So, you know, if they have great goaltending and they continue to get elite goaltending every single night, they're going to have a chance to make a run, a deep run. And I just worry about them being able to withstand two months of grueling playoff hockey because you always see, you always see guys get subtracted from the lineup because of that grind. And I just don't know if I have a lot of faith in them being able to withstand the loss of like one or two important players.

I think that's right. Alex asks, which teams would maximize buzz slash ratings for the NHL this year if they mend the finals? I mean, just from an entertainment standpoint, like, if the Oilers were to make the Stanley Cup final, the Oilers are, for my money, the most entertaining team in the league. And you've obviously got McDavid, you got Drysodle, you got the fact that they had, they've never been to the cup final before. Like, I would put them very near the top.

then, you know, if the Rangers were to make the Stanley Cup final, like, that's, that's obviously going to move the needle, Toronto, even Boston, like, no, those, those, those, no, that's not a sneak Boston in there. You know, like, Boston's a big market. They've got stars, like, yeah, but from an entertainment perspective. They don't necessarily play the most exciting brand of hockey, but the market in, like, as an original six franchise, that, that's something that they're going to be able to. marketed around and, you know, especially with last year's heartbreak, the turnaround factor would

be good for storylines. That is true. I would say from an entertainment perspective, you can't go wrong with any number of teams, but something like a Stars Panthers series, or I guess even Oilers Panthers, just from a product perspective would be. For sure. From a product perspective, but like, I just, Dallas versus Florida is going to get criticized so much from like peripheral fans and it's not sexy and like the disrespect will be undeserved,

but the disrespect will be there. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I'm trying to think about this rationally, but I think you have to think about it irrationally in terms of what people will say. Like we're going to be there no matter what. True. We'll love a team like Dallas making the cup final.

And maybe people will come around. once if they do actually tune in but i think like for a matchup like that there is a barrier of resistance to people who who won't be there no matter what that's true um okay one more one question here before we get out of here who do you think would have won this cup finals the 22 Colorado avalanche first of 2021 Tampa bay lightning fully healthy both teams to start abs of home ice seven game series uh uh i i'll I'm going to say Tampa because it's going to, that would be an incredible, incredible cup final. I'm going to say, I'm going to say Tampa because of the goaltending.

Like Colorado won and was an outlier in the fact that like they won despite having below average to average goaltending for most of that run. And I think when you've got Vasilevsky and you're talking about a seven game series, I'm probably going to take the team with elite goaltending if they're both that good. Well, the question was fully healthy and I will say before Darcy Kempir lost literally an eye. I guess not literally,

but he couldn't see out of one eye. He was pretty good, not necessarily Vasilev's. He was pretty good. But that team was so good defensively, particularly to close out that series, they just decided. And I know that that version of Tampa

they played that year was like really running on fumes at that point. But remember that close-out game, they were just like, We're not going to let you even touch the puck. And it doesn't matter who's in net for us. I think my answer to this is actually the avalanche. I think it's more interesting if you give me the year prior and you go 20-20 bubble lightning, fully healthy with Stamco's actually playing as opposed to just playing one shift

and scoring a memorable goal but still being out because they had prime Victor Hedman that season. And what he did in that bubble was just outlandishly dominant. and already by the following season he was like banged up and not really himself anymore. And I think that was he was playing, but he wasn't tilting the ice that way. And so I think that's kind of where the difference lies because they still obviously had all that forward depth of year prior, but they just had a significantly better version of picture headman. So I think 22 Avalanche versus 2020 Lightning is about as good as it gets in terms of a hypothetical

matchup. All right. Yeah. You got any. Headman plus like that that third line from Tampa would, I know Colorado was insane offensively, but I would like to see them going up against like a massive force like headman in that checking line.

Yes. All right. Actually one more question. Eric asks, why isn't Pete in the Pierluck Discord? Now, that's a great question. I'm wondering myself.

The Pier Luke Discord is what we call our Pacific Division channel. in the PDOCast Discord, which is a phenomenal place to be. We took a lot of the questions from there on today's show. I'm trying to get Pete in there. I'm trying to get everyone that I have on this show. I've been talking about this with Kevin Woodley yesterday as well. Like, I want everyone to be in there because I want you to experience the greatness of the banter and the community we have there and for us to be on the same page.

But I just can't seem to get you. You're such a boomer. I was trying to get you on Discord at the start of the year and you just weren't having it. Brother, I get Discord up on my computer right now. It's on my third monitor. I have not been presented with a link. I need to be presented something on a silver platter and made it as easy as possible for me to do it.

So if you send me the link right after this show, I will absolutely be in there and be happy to be there. I got to get you in there. It's so fun. And I listen, I know I'm obviously biased because it's my Discord channel. But I feel like a proud papa of the community we're building there because every single night,

there's just great banter, really fun conversation. really thoughtful stuff. And most importantly, and this is tying a full circle to how we started the show, you're never inundated with bots trying to get you to click links and sell stuff. And so it's just a really fun, safe, comfortable place to be in. And so I highly recommend everyone gets in there. If you're still listening to today's mailbag and you're not in there for some reason, you can get future questions in there. We're going to get Pete in there. After we're done, I'm going to send him a link. He'll be in there as well. Let's keep this thing growing. I think we're about like 600 deep almost now in there. So I want to,

to keep building this thing out for the playoffs. I'm jealous because I want a discord for what chaos. And we have one set up. But it's like it's kind of barren right now. And I need to get into the habit of giving it some life for it. Yeah. But no, it's actually my converted like old gaming discord. So a lot of people that are like in there just like what is this now?

But maybe maybe joining yours will inspire me to give new life to mine. And I hope that that's the case. I love that. Okay. we'll plug some stuff. Tell people about your show and plug whatever you want on the way out here. Yeah, we have the What Chaos podcast, which is me and DJ Bean and Sean DePaz. We take a fun personality-driven approach and try to have a lot of fun and goofiness with hockey. We're live every day at noon on YouTube Monday through Thursday.

It's going to be Monday through Friday during the playoffs. So we're having so much fun with the show. So if you're not subscribed, please What Chaos Show on YouTube and please subscribe. We're also available on podcasts and all those platforms as well. But, you know, we're not as smart

as this show, but we try to have as much fun as we possibly can and be fun and being wrong a lot of the time. You guys have a lot of fun and you're great. You're selling yourself short. I really enjoy watching you guys and the banter of the two of you have in particular is really fun to watch. So highly recommend everyone checks that out while you're on YouTube.

Go check out the the Hockey Pideotcast channel and also go check out what chaos get on the discord channel send in future mailbags will have p.d out again for a mailbag I'm sure in the playoffs and hopefully it'll inspire him to get his own going as well and smash that five by star button wherever you listen to the show to help us out by showing some love all right we're going to let pete go here we're going to come back with one more episode to close the week out here on the sports net radio network