The Hockey PDOcast - Trades we'd like to see - Part 1

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

Thomas Drance and Jack Fraser join Dimitri for an annual tradition on the PDOcast - cook up fun trades they'd like to see at this year's deadline.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty.  The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEOCast. My name's Dmitra Vilippovich and joining me on this wonderful Christmas morning here on the PDOCast where we're doing our annual trades we'd like to see is my Sunday special co-host. Of course, Thomas Trans, Tom, what's going on, man? Giddy. Giddy with excitement. I've got a wide list of trades. I've got a three-teamer. I've got a couple, two-parters. So I'm ready to cook. and look, I look forward to this every year. I've spent much of my morning just sort of making sure everything was cap compliant

and really going through like the conditions on various picks that are in these deals. So I'm so excited. I love doing this show and love doing the show with Jack too. You know, we can debate Adam Fox later. But more than anything, this is one of my favorite shows to do all year. And this is one of my favorite weeks all year. So it should be fun. Well, and it's also the first Sunday special,

Tom, you and I've been doing this every Sunday this season. It's the first time for a special occasion. We decided to incorporate a guest also joining us, as you mentioned there. I think for the fourth straight year, the three of us have gotten together and done these. It's becoming an annual tradition or a good pal. Jack Fraser. Jack, what's going on, man? Not a lot.

I'm looking forward to Drance's Adam Fox for a conditional sixth proposal. Well, we've got big shoes to fill. there was one year where Tom had a blockbuster that was centered around former Panthers great Max and Mammon. We of course, we were on the cutting edge of the Brandon Hagel to Tampa Bay trade, which is aging like fine wine every single day. We've got a couple other fun ones. I think Jack had a Patrick Kane to the Rangers trade that wound up happening the following year. So this has been a really fun way for us to kind of prepare for the upcoming trade deadline. We're recording this on a Sunday afternoon to get it out on the feed for you so you can hopefully listen in a timely manner.

manner. And just as a reminder, these are the sort of general rules the three of us are going to try to abide by. I want to keep it very loose so that we can have some fun with it because that's most important. The only real rules I think that we're going to abide by are it has to involve the players that we actually have reason to be available that have been either speculated or on trade boards this season. And we're going to be generally framing this through the lens of the acquiring team, the buyer, and why the fit makes sense for the player they're getting and kind of how that makes them better. But we also want to make sure to balance the scales a little bit.

So the trades actually have to make sense for both parties. Now we don't want to get too bogged down with the nitty-gritty details of like, oh, it should be a second round pick instead of a third in 2027. But we can kind of iron out what the framework would look like. And then you can sort of add on top of it if you want yourself. But other than that, no rules. We're having fun. We're going to get to this.

I think the biggest challenge for these shows every year for us is the timing, right? Because we're kind of at the mercy of the league waiting to do deals. hopefully closer to the deadline, just so we have time to cook some deals up and have some fun and get it out there. We heard Elya Freeman on Saturday say that he expects this week. The activity won't really pick up until Tuesday or Wednesday or so because some buyers are keeping their powder dry waiting to see what happens

with Miko Randton and the hurricanes. A bunch of sellers are waiting to see where they're at before making final decisions, which I find immensely amusing. The teams like the Islanders and Bruins have seen their teams play for 60 games, games and are like, all right, I want to see a couple more before we really decide how good our team is and what we should do. But let's get into it. We've had a couple deals already this weekend. And I wanted to start off today actually talking about one deal we have seen so far, Seth Jones to the Panthers, because I think we're going to talk more about the Panthers,

what else they could do with Matthew Kachuk now on LTIR. Jack, I thought the reporting of this deal was really interesting, right? Because it kind of breaks on Saturday afternoon or Saturday early evening. It's immediately sort of the sticker shock of Spencer Knight and a first. And on first blush, that kind of seemed like a bit of a high price for me. And then later we find out the Blackhawks are retaining $2.5 million for the next five years, which brings Seth Jones's cap hit down to $7 million for the Panthers. Also, it's at really more of a pick swap where the Panthers are giving up. They're 2026 first, which will probably be in the 25 to 30 range. And they're getting back the Blackhawks fourth in 2026, which could be in the high 90s or low 100s. So it's really

not that significant of a drop at that point of the draft. So putting all that together, I feel like the three of us are probably going to agree on this. But Seth Jones has been a very polarizing player, certainly. But this is not only addressing a clear need for the Panthers, but probably going to be the best case scenario for him, self, to get the most out of his skill set. Yeah, 100%. I mean, there's a reason that before that trade happened, I had like six trades is where troubled puck moving defensemen we're going to get traded to the Florida Panthers just because they always seem to figure out, you know, what's going on with their game once they get there. I mean, I agree with you. I think it's funny. Like we're

talking about Seth Jones is polarizing. I was very early to the boat on, you know, being an anti-Seth Jones or a Seth Jones skeptic back even in like 2020, like before that original trade to the Blackhawks happen. But just the difference between Seth, Jones, the $9.5 million player in a flat cap compared to Seth Jones, the $7 million player when the cap is exploding is, I think, the most consequential part of this trade. Like that contract is going to be number three, number four money in just a couple of years. And, you know, there's people who are talking about, oh, he's going to be great in a second pairing role.

Like, I think he's going to be still munching plenty of minutes, but he's going to be doing it at a really steep discount relative to how that contract looked a couple years ago. Plus, you know, could be playing some time with a guy like Foresling who was also on a steal of a deal. So as long as the Panthers are comfortable figuring out what they're going to be doing and that after Bobrovsky is done, I think this is a tidy bit of business for them. On that note, we speak a lot about sort of the impact of environment and team quality and especially the way it affects a defenseman's underlying numbers.

right, someone who's playing a ton of minutes on a really bad team, I think is naturally going to get buried in terms of a lot of the metrics we tend to value. You're talking about not only Seth Jones at $7 million compared to the 9.5 he was in Chicago, but also going from the 32nd team at 515 this year to the second one and probably playing like 22-ish minutes, I think, more so than the 2430 he was playing in Chicago, which was top 15 in the league. And so you put that all together. And even though, you know, I mentioned how I think Jones at times has been maybe overrated because of his tools, then he got bashed because of the contract details. I think you look at it this way in terms of how he's going to fit on Florida. And this does feel like the best case scenario for him to absolutely thrive based on everything we've seen the Panthers do the past couple years. Yeah, I think that's right. The truth is that we've seen lesser defensemen come into Florida.

where we thought either their careers were on the precipice of ending or that they were extremely limited. You know, guys like Nico Mikola, who it was like, man, that guy is truly, you know, a 6-7 type. And, you know, Gustav Forsling, almost out of the league, Oliver Ekman-Larsen. You know what I mean? Ekman-Larsen, I thought physically was breaking down. And time and time again, the way that the Panthers play, I think part of it, too, is the defensive commitment that you get from Lus Doreanan and Barkov and Bennett and company.

You know, I think that's a significant part of it too. I think it's the way that they pressure. It's the way that they, you know, try to defend skating forward. And I mean, Seth Jones, you know, if you had one issue with him, it was defending the rush. Well, you know, that's something that it's pretty hard to expose the Pathers off the rush. They rely so heavily on, you know, this sort of blitz pressure game down low. And I think he's perfect to be reading off. of that, you know, and in the right spots out of that squeezing, surfing, you know, at various

blue lines. So, I mean, I just think the fit is great. And, and I think what's going to be interesting about this is, you know, for me, I was squarely in the same camp as Jack as a, as a Seth Jones skeptic. And I sort of remain there. But, but I think it's important that we note sort of the gap between fit and like true talent level, right? I think there were a lot of teams that could have acquired Seth Jones, that I would have been like, ooh, I don't know that that's the move for them. I don't know that's the move that really helps them. But for Florida, I think the way that they play and what Jones does well and where his limitations lie, this is like a glove in my mind. And then it also gives you some insulation with Aaron Eckblad being a pending UFA on the right

side. You know, I actually think the, the Forsling Jones fit might might be the best one given Jones's mobility. I mean, I think the ability to go Jones, Forsling, Barkov, against tough matchups, especially at home in a playoff series. I mean, that's going to be very, very challenging for the opposition to break down. So, you know, this is one where I think over the next month and a half, six weeks into the playoffs, you're going to see a lot of victory laps taken by those that always believed in Seth Jones. And for me, that's going to be misplaced. This is one of those where he's a good player that I think has a chance to be a great fit with a great team.

And I also actually like this for the Chicago Blackhawks all told, given, you know, the trade request, the obvious unhappiness of the player, you know, the fact that they just need to, they need to get some good vibes going. And I've got a trade to address that, by the way, as we go, they need to get the good vibes going. So to have a trade request, a 9.5 million long-term liability, a player that's, you know, largely underperforming the contract number and to come out of it with, you know, a first-round pick in a stronger draft class.

Yeah, sure, it's a trade-down, but it's also a 2020. Like, I'd rather have a 20-26 first, especially if it's likely to fall in the late 20s, early 30s the way Florida's is, you know, in 2026, then I wouldn't 20-25 anyway. plus they get a super talented goaltender and Spencer Knight who has had some trials and tribulations as he's come through the early part of his NHL career

but I think he's a bright kid. I think he's obviously enormously talented and that's the sort of bet you want to make. Elite talent who hasn't figured it out in his early 20s. I mean, that's like the template bet that I think we want to see a team like Chicago swing at time and time again. So I like that for them as well.

I mean, he's pretty much going to fill the Montour will at least out of the gate, right? Like he's going to play second pair with Nico Mikal, I think, at least upon introduction, he'll step into the point position on PowerPlay 1. Jack, I know you look at this quite a bit yourself. Like his biggest weakness as a player, as we've spoken about, have been, especially now that he's 30, pivoting, defending the rush, skating backwards.

And we've seen everything Florida succeeded at in bringing and revamping these defensemen along the way, even Montour, who he's replacing now, is this unique ability of theirs to just keep skating forwards, right? The number of times you actually have to defend off the rush like that are so limited. You're insulated in a way so it feels like they're going to be able to protect them there. And then what he excels at still in terms of puck management, breakout passing, battle winning down low. These are things that all play really well on the Panthers.

And so it feels like a match made in heaven from a skill set perspective. It also allows them to bump Kulikov down to the third pair. I thought he was overextended playing on the second pair. and then walk away this summer or avoid temptation to give a loyalty contract to Aaron the glacier Ekblad who that contract's obviously going to be problematic for a guy who's 29 and already slowed down and Gus Forzing has covered for him the past couple years. So I feel like you put that all together and that's why we like the fit. Yeah, exactly.

And, you know, the issues that we have with the Seth Jones's game defending the rush, I think putting him next to a guy like Gus Forsling is going to make those. look a lot less consequential. Yeah, it's crazy to have a Seth Jones transaction that I'm abulently praising. But, abutently praising. But yeah, I think it made a lot of sense. And as much as I really did think that Eric Carlson was going to be the guy for them, and it would have been fun to see his elite offensive skill set there,

I think this will probably give them a couple fewer headaches in the defensive zone, and I can understand why they went in that direction instead. Tom, on the Spencer Knight note, I just wanted to kind of put a ball in this trade and then we'll move on. I do think the loss is a big one for the Panthers. Maybe they never would have actually trusted him as the starter in a postseason setting, especially this early on this year. But he's objectively been their best goalie this season. I feel like now they're relying pretty heavily in an insulated environment, but still on a 36-year-old, Sergey Bobrovsky, that's looked more like a 36-year-old this season increasingly, in my opinion, a lot of bad goals against. So I don't know.

I don't know how to view that one from the goalie position because they have the cap space now with the Kachuk on LTIR to go out and maybe add of Ladar or of Amalka if he's available. Or even if you want to get crazy and swing on a John Gibson trade and then deal with the Bobrovsky contract this summer where the actual salary drops, teams will probably be interested in taking them on as an expiring that they could flip down the road or you could just buy them out and save yourself a bunch of money. There's any number of routes the Panthers can go to improve on Chris Rieger as the number two here for the team. time being, but I didn't want to note on night because I've seen sort of analysis of them all over the board. And I think it's important to remember that he's 23 years old right now, and we've seen him stumble and fail at this level for a variety of reasons. Yet most goalies in his shoes, we haven't seen them do so because they've never even been in the NHL at this point of their career, right? The number of under 24, 25 year old goalies that we see in the NHL is exceedingly

low. And so I feel like what we've seen from this year would encourage me quite a bit if I was the Blackhawks being like, all right, there's like something here. And, you know, he might not be the lottery pick or the mid first rounder that he was drafted as. But man, I feel like there's a lot there to work with. So I do feel like that is a big loss for the Panthers. Yeah. And how many times have we seen goaltenders, high pedigree goaltenders even fail for a variety of reasons for years and years and then put it together, you know, even if they don't become elite, guys like Jack, had multiple exceptional seasons, right? Guys like Jack Campbell were good enough to end up getting paid.

And, you know, I do think that there was probably some, you know, like, the Panthers don't need their goaltender to be the reason they win games, right? They need a guy that they believe in when the chips are down. Like, Bovrovsky doesn't have to go in and be the Florida answer to Vasilevsky. He has to go in and be the Florida answer to Jordan Bittington. You know, and I just think fundamentally for this team, I just think it was never going to be a case where the guys in that core would have rather gone to war with Knight over Brobowski. You know, no matter what his regular season performances looked like or the inconsistency, like, I just think what they've done with Brobrovsky across the last two seasons was going to be impossible for, for Knight to understand. seat, especially with some of the water under the bridge there. So, you know, they definitely dealt

a talented player who I still would be zero percent surprised by having a glow up down the line with Chicago. I mean, Chicago would have to get a lot in order in terms of the way they play and just sort of the overall hockey professionalism on the ice. But, you know, I think Knight can be a really nice ad for them. And I just don't, I guess I don't see it as a loss because I just don't see any world where they were going to turn to him in the playoffs, barring injury. And, and, you know, they've gone to war with Chris Drieger, too, right? Like, there's an element to which I don't think Driegers, I don't think they're lost if they end up having to turn to Drieger in a big spot.

I think, you know, again, that that group, I mean, didn't they win a president's trophy with him starting the lion's share of their games? I think that group will feel comfortable. And I, and I think fundamentally that's what it's going to come down to because you get into a game seven, you know, Dregor is as likely to give you the, you know, 23 saves on 25 shots as, you know, not as a star goaltender, but as an average goaltender anyway. Do either of you have any supplementary Panthers trades after this one, in terms of how they'd use whatever picks prospects and the 8.7 million they have in

cap space to work with because it feels like they probably will, at least on the margins, do a couple other moves. Do either you have anything? I actually don't, Jack. No, I actually don't either. I had to scrap all mine after last night. Yeah, likewise. I have one, and it's kind of a small scale one, but I would randomly love to see them at Joel Armea and have him play on the third line, this all-finished line

with Lucerne and Lundel. That would allow them to keep Mackie Samuoskevich, who I keep talking about, has the juice in the top six, and I feel like that would make a lot of sense. So I'd like to see them do something like that, but it probably will be that and maybe another goalie option as opposed to another massive kind of home run cut on a star player. But there's certainly options for them. Can you imagine that line head to head in the inevitable Tampa Bay Lightning series in the second round? You know, it's like it's like you've got the Hagle, Sorrelli, Paul versus sort of. So you've got like three Canadian dogs versus three finished dogs. And it's just like everyone's barking all at once. That would be a ton of fun. I mean, I, you know, you. You put those six together on the ice and it's just going to be absolutely no space whatsoever.

I'm here for that in a playoff environment. All right. Well, I'll run the Blackhawks, Tom. Give us your Blackhawks trade. I think that's natural. So this is my big one. This is a big three-way deal. And I actually started to come up with it because I was looking around at what teams need.

And the Toronto Maple Leafs, okay? I think really need to figure out a way to. limit those Connor Timmons Simone Benoit minutes, I think, especially with this sort of new defensive, reliant on goal tending

identity that they've kind of carved out under Baruba and his first season in Toronto. You know, I think that can work. It's not my favorite way to see them play. I think it does sort of limit their ceiling. But, you know, we also know that they have star players.

It's not like run and gun worked for them either, although people would say that they may be abandoned it. But if they're going to try and win with this more defensive, more negative approach, relying on counterpunching, you know, I think they need to be as sturdier in that, in those third pair minutes. And so in thinking about how they could go about approaching that, I was like, man, what they really need is to recreate the Jake McCabe trade again. And then I looked at the Chicago Blackhawks and thought, hey, Connor Murphy, two years. left. That's the Jake McCabe trade all over again. What about that? So here's what I've carved out. Here's my three teamer that lands Jake McCabe in Toronto. Toronto is going to get in this deal, Connor Murphy at 50% retained. Now it's a three-way trade. So even though the Blackhawks have no retained slots, there's going to be a third party involved to retain on these deals. So before we go

too far. I want to note that I have anticipated what the biggest cap wages nerds listening to your podcast will immediately react to. So Connor Murphy, 50% of his salary is going to be retained by Seattle because the Toronto Maple Leafs are also going to unite the Tanniv brothers in this deal. They're going to get Brandon Tannav also at 50% retained. And they're going to get Josh Mohera because I'm trading a bunch of their defensive depth to make the cap work. So they need an addition. defenseman making the vet minimum. Josh Mahura, step on up. Chicago is going to end this deal,

getting Simone Benoit and Jared McCann from the Seattle Cracken. Oh, boy. And the Cracken, and the Cracken are going to effectively be deciding, hey, look, we've got Shane Wright, who's had a really nice season.

We've got Maddie Baneers. is our future, right? We can't keep living in this middle and sort of trying to make the wild card spot in the West. We need to, we need to aim higher, we need to get younger, we need to build around these two cornerstone, potential cornerstone centermen that we've gotten the organization. So we need to get younger. We need to get prospects. We need to get draft capital. We are making a pure seller's move. And Jared McCann is going to be part of that. And we're willing to eat salary as well because the hall we're going to get out of this includes Easton Cowan from the Toronto Maple Leafs.

They're, you know, one of their top forward prospects. Nick Robertson, okay? He's going to go to Seattle. Seattle's going to look at that as like another Capo-Caco type, a young 20s guy who can maybe hit a higher ceiling. They're going to get Toronto's first round pick via Chicago. Okay, because that's already in with the Blackhawks. And they're going to get the conditional late third owned by the Maple Leafs,

which is the higher of Colorado or their own. third round pick. They also take Connor Timmons in the deal. So that is my three-teamer. Seattle sells. Chicago lands a real NHL forward now and a forward that they would never be able. They're basically, from Chicago's perspective, you're getting Jared McCann to punch up your forward group

and give you some credibility, a guy to work off of Connor Bedard if you want or help add some supporting offense. I can play center. He can play wing, probably best on the wing, but I still think there's some juice there at center. I mean, Jared McCann for Connor Murphy in a first round pick. Come on.

That's a steal of a deal given McCann's production and given how desperate Chicago is for, you know, talent. The Maple Leafs end up with Murphy at 2.2 million. Tanev at 1.75 million to sort of juice up their counterattacking style add a playoff tested vet a good person. Unite the Tannav brothers, which is hilarious. And then a depth defender. And they're paying through the nose to get it done.

But Murphy for this season and next at 2.2, I think really puts them in a position where if you're going to be trying to grind out these three, two wins in the playoffs, they now would have, you know, the horses to really do it and insulate themselves from injury. Chris Tenev hitting IR today, for example, as a result of this. this move. At some point, the Maple Leafs do have to go all in here, right? Like, these guys are all 27. Their best players are all 27. Like, the time is now, this is a move that has ramifications for them this year and next. And yeah, the price is steep, but the amount of talent and the way that it would fit into how the Maple Leafs play is significant. What do you think? Okay, Jack, I'll let you

jump in here. Just my quick thoughts, because I think it's a no-brainer upside-wise for both the Cracken and Blackhawks here. I get your point from the least perspective of splitting up that third pair which when you watch them has been a mess. And I like the addition beyond the narrative of the Tanev brothers together. I think Brandon Tanev in Brubay's war checking system would do really well and have a postseason glow up. I feel like the Leafs, if they're giving up Easton Cow and Nick Robertson and multiple picks, should be the team getting Jared McCann. Because their biggest need.

They're just one pick. They're just giving up a conditional third. True. Yeah, because the other one belongs to Chicago. I just feel like from the Leafs perspective, We've seen so much smoke around Brayden Shandh. He would clearly improve their team, but he's also a 34-year-old who's owed $6.5 million

for three more years after this one. I like this as the alternative to, I feel like Brad Trulibing and Craig Brubay have the green goblin mask talking to them to get Scott Lottin and Rasmus Salinen or some sort of a combo like that as a two-for-one that none of us would actually like based on the price it would take.

So I like it as an alternative to that, But I feel like the Leafs, their biggest need right now is a viable middle six center that can not only ease the load on a 34-year-old John Tavares and maybe bump into a wing, but also so you're not so reliant on Max Domi, who I think we all feel is going to let you down in the biggest moment with some sort of a boneheaded decision. And so they're not really addressing that. They're paying a very steep price. I feel like if they were part of this deal, I'd be like, oh, man, how did the Leafs lose another transaction involving Jared McCann? Yeah, I mean, I like Connor Murphy. I think he's going to be a smart acquisition if he's available. And he's kind of one of the few proper actually rock solid shutdown defenders out there,

kind of in that Braden McNabb type archetype where you're slow as dirt and you can't do anything with the puck. But you can defend your goalie and really make a difference in big heavy minutes. And he's been doing very well in a tough situation in Chicago with that. I just, I feel like the Leafs maybe, like he really would be a luxury for them, considering that they already have Tanna and Eckman-Larsen locked up for quite a few years after this one. Like you're, you're paying a lot to have Connor Murphy, who I think is like a proper number four defensive defenseman on your third pair, where like DIM said they do have, I think, priorities elsewhere in the lineup.

I don't think this would be like a bad trade for them if it happened. and I think they'd probably be happy playing Murphy against those Atlantic Division teams. I also had a Murphy trade, but I had him going to the Oilers instead just to give them that kind of defensive presence that they could play in top four minutes. Basically, their upgraded version of last year, Cody C.C.

But I'm glad that you got Connor Bedard a friend because I really tried to find him one, and it was actually deceptively difficult. Oh, and you also, when you were named, me the young center core of the Seattle crack and I think you forgot Chandler Stevenson for some reason so I just wanted to don't love that look I think if you can always throw Ryan Donato in you know like you could always throw I considered it myself but look I think the value is high for the upgrades the Maple Leafs get but at the end of the day if

you're getting a guy like Murphy who can play top of the lineup in Tufts is right handed is big has one of the rarest profiles in hockey and you're getting him two years at 2.2 at this like critical moment where the Leafs really have to break through you know and you've got these two good goaltenders cost controlled here across the next two years like you know at some point

you know this team does have to go for it would I rather see them you know swing for a star level player sure but I don't see how they make that work with the cap that was the other part of this deal I was trying to solve their defensive issue and it's It's such an interesting dynamic where like the Leafs don't have bad money I want to subtract to make their team better either, which makes them a difficult team to upgrade, I think.

Let's take our break here. And then when we come back, we'll jump back into it. I've got another Jared McCann trade that I want to pitch you guys on. You're listening to the Hockey Pee-Ocast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. All right. We're back here in the Hockey Ocast. We're doing our trades. We'd like to see part one got off to a rollicking star, Tom.

I knew he would deliver it with a convoluted three teamer. This one's a bit more simple, but it's all along the lines of the Jared McCann conversation we were talking about. I got a couple other cracking ones, so maybe we can get through them all here. But I want to lump the jets in. And Tom, before we started recording, you were telling me how a team that you and I have been fascinated by this year because they're at this perfect convergence of checking every box you're looking for for this exercise where they're really good.

They're first in the league in point percentage and goal differential. They're flush with assets. They have a full complement of picks, prospects north of 10 million in caps base. They have the incentive with the cap spiking the next three years. It's not going to be as level of playing field for them. They've got Nikola Eilers as a UFA this summer. This feels like their big shot at a franchise defining season that they've been craving with this core. The way I've seen it, they've got two specific areas that they stand to benefit the most.

The first is second line center, which bumps Nemesnikov down to ideally the fourth line. You squeeze extra 5-on-5 offense out of that brilliant Eelers-Pherty combination that creates so many glorious scoring chances together. And then a third pair left shot defenseman just to get Logan Stanley out of the rotation because you look ahead to a potential round two series against Dallas or Colorado and his penalty rate and all the issues with his movement and processing and puck handling, I feel like are going to be exposed in a matchup like that. So they call the Crackin.

and they address both with one swing. They get Jared McCann and Jamie Alexiak. McCann's owed $5 million for the next two years, Alexiak 4.6 next year. They send back a package that includes Brad Lambert, who's a 21-year-old playing in the HLN was their first round pick in 2022, a flyer on Billy Heinola, still a 25-year-old left-shot defenseman

who can't crack the Jets lineup for whatever reason, but has shown enough as a prospect in the AHL that it's worth a shot at least a look for the Crackin. The Jets 2025 first, a 2026 second that's conditional. It bumps up to a 2026 first if the Jets make the Western Conference final in the next two years. And then if you want to throw it a 2027 third or whatever just to round it out and give the Cracken a real treasure chest of picks,

we know how much they've invested in analytics and building out their staff and trying to accumulate pick volume. so I feel like they would like that quite a bit. I'm not sure if you guys think that's enough. I feel like any team acquiring Jeremy can is going to have to force Seattle's hand, especially Ron Francis, given how conservative and waiting until the last minute to do something is,

they're not really incentivized to trade him right now because he's on such a reasonable contract for two more years. But he's going to be a 29-year-old. His team, the past couple years, has been so unambitious, not really going anywhere. And so a deal like this to go along with potential, Gord and Bjork Strand trades, all of a sudden,

fast tracks a rebuild in terms of getting young talent into the system that hopefully over the next couple years can play with Shane Wright, can play with Maddie Baneers and get more out of those guys because it feels like they're so invested in those guys needing to succeed

as top six centers for this team to actually cash in on whatever the promise is. And so especially a guy like Lambert, Jack, I know you were kind of talking about Shane Wright's performance recently online, I've been really impressed, especially watching him on Saturday against the Canucks. I feel like he would benefit from a speedy transition player who can kind of push the pace and create for a little bit for him so that once they get into the zone, he can continue doing what he does best.

And so a guy like Lambert would be incredibly intriguing as a fit next to right moving forward. And so it gives them at least two or three pretty premium assets, I think, for a guy in Alexiac who they're going to trade eventually, if not this year, soon anyways, and getting a lot. ahead of the Jerry McCann trade market. What do you guys think about that? Do you answer to start? Sure. I mean, I like it. So just give me the hard recap of the assets involved.

It's mechanic and Alexeiac, straight up, no retention, because the Jets can soak up both. For Brad Lambert, Vili Hynola, a first, a second, and a third. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a huge package for the Jets to pay. Generally speaking, although I think Hynola, like, Hanola getting left off the four nation's roster given the state of the finished blue line, I think has to be cause for alarm for those still holding stock. So, you know, possibly the crack in, especially with, you know, Riker Evans fitting a similar template, ask for a Chibrakov or something else to sort of

up the price from from Winnipeg's perspective. That would sort of be my first blush is do the crackin need a little bit more juice to make that trade, given the term left on? those players deals and sort of the uniqueness of their profiles i mean likelexiac would be a great fit for the jets especially because he can play left and right especially because he is such a specimen um you know i i actually think there's a little bit more offensive value there not not that he's like a standalone driver but but he can skate he can make some skilled plays i think in those big moments in games you know the which inevitably happen where you know your sixth defenseman ends up with the puck in a scoring area because he's the one that your opponent wants to end up

with the puck in a scoring area. I don't think you look at Alexeic the way you do at Joel Edmondson types, right? Where it's like, oh no, we're hooped, right? I actually think he can kind of do some stuff with those moments in those moments. So I like that for Winnipeg and then obviously versatility. And then, yeah, I mean, Jared McCann, that would be nominal upgrade for them from a skill perspective. I mean, I like it. I just wonder if I, I wonder if Seattle needs even a little more to make it fly, despite the fact that I think you've created a pretty expensive and mostly fair package.

Yeah, I like it too. I rate Alexiak pretty well. He's not having a great season. His results haven't been too good, but they've been very steady in the past, and I think he's gotten a little bit under the radar. I think we talk a lot about, you know, especially, I mean, it's coming up with the Jets plenty of time.

So here, there are players that we would, wish we get more ice time or there are players that are stuck out of the lineup or stuck behind worse players. One of the nice things about Alexiak, I think, is that you don't have to worry about that. I mean, no NHL coach is going to look at a guy of his size with his shot and, you know, all those kind of conventional things that he brings to the table while also being, like Drans said, an underratedly skilled player. You know, I like the fit with that for Winnipeg. And actually, I had my own Jamie Alexiac deal that I didn't really flesh out, but I had been thinking of him as a potential Adam Fox partner for a little while.

I've been kind of ringing that bell just to give him maybe somebody who can push people out of the crease a little bit more. But I like him in Winnipeg. Jared McCann, the thing people keep saying about McCann is so he's not really as good at center as, you know, people just kind of assume that he is, you know, he's more of a winger. now and they point to i think Seattle deciding to go out there and get Stevenson and you know as kind of a sense that they don't really

see him as a center long term but i mean I like McCann a lot as a player I think he has plenty of scoring punch and especially if you put him with creative wingers like like an eelers depending on what they do with it moving forward or Cole Profetti

I think he would slot in very nicely so I like the fit I think the package is it might end up being a little light, but I think the Jets also have those kind of secondary prospects in the pipeline that you could just kind of add them in and eventually you would tip it over the edge. For sure. I think the appeal for Alexiac is he's actually the type of player type that maybe Scott Arniel would feel comfortable actually taking Logan Stanley out of the lineup, right? A lot of other defensemen that they added. I feel like in a playoff series, he'd still wind

up going back to old reliable. And in this case, it's like, all right, we just also got another unit, but he's actually good at hockey. And so you can feel comfortable with him on the third pair. And then McCann as a as a trigger man where he's been like 14 plus percent over the past five years, just get him in the slot with Eilers and Perfetti cooking and creating space. All of a sudden now you're just scoring so much more on those opportunities than the pucks that kind of die on a Messnikov stick. So I feel like this is the type of home run deal. I actually, I agree with you guys that the package is probably light. If I was the Jets, I'd go significantly higher if that's what it took because this strikes me as the type of deal they should be trying to make

as opposed to adding kind of fringe players that don't actually address their biggest weaknesses. All right, Jack, it's your turn. We haven't pitched the trade yet. Thomas and I have both done pretty big ones. What's first on your list? Yeah, so I don't have any three teamers, but I'm going to kind of combine two of them

because they both involve players going to the same team. So Riley Smith, and I got to really rush this out before he gets traded halfway through this podcast, he's being held out. The Rangers are going to move, him. The Penguins moved him, obviously, last summer. The word was with the Penguins was that he was not happy to go there. He only really wanted to be in Vegas, and he was super disappointed to get traded. Now he's landed in New York. That was their big acquisition for their second line. Obviously,

you know, he's been pretty good, actually, but his finishing hasn't been fantastic. And now he seems to be on the outs. So I say we just make him happy. Back to Vegas. Rangers recoup the second round pick that they traded for him over the summer. Vegas gets a guy who scored a Stanley Cup winning goal a couple years ago who they know super well. You know, winger depth has been the big concern for them, you know,

basically ever since we saw what their depth chart looked like in the off season, we don't get as many Victor Olives and minutes, uh, in the playoffs, uh, in the top six. The other half of that deal, oh,

well, so I, and then I had, you know, oh yeah, so that was just the second. And then the other half, I really,

really wanted. it to figure out a way to get Jonathan Marcia's O back in Vegas, basically have Nashville throw their hands up and say, you know what, everyone involves made a mistake here. Let's just then, let's reunite the Misfits line, get Marcia's O back there. But I just couldn't really figure out a way to make it happen with the assets that they had and everything like that. So instead, Vegas, who are the most annoying and hateable team in the NHL for a lot of people, get Brad Marshan on the other side.

Oh, let's go. They send Trevor Connolly, who is playing in Providence right now, so is presumably familiar with the New England area. Over back to Boston, you know, maybe there's different assets going on each side. But Marciaen gets to do the Marchand thing in that Pacific Division. Riley Smith is on the other side, being a above average two-way forward.

Vegas is happy. Vegas' step chart is a lot deeper than it was. was, you know, the day before. I love it. So sorry. Failing to reunite the Misfits line, you've reunited the Marsh and Riley Smith axis in Vegas. I appreciate that, Jack.

Yeah. I can't say that my memories of that pair were too clear, but I guess they must have been somewhere back there. I mean, I love it because when you stopped at Riley Smith, I was going to say, like, I know we saw the McQuire Manta last year, and we saw them, you know, acquired barbership, but generally I was like, man. that doesn't feel like it's going to be the end for Vegas.

It feels like there's another big splash coming. So I'm glad you included Marsh and there. I think one of the roadblocks, and maybe it would be a mood point because the season's been so miserable in Nashville, but it does feel like there was quite a bit of bad blood this summer in terms of the way Vegas handled the Marsha's-so situation and kind of like leaving him in the dark, and he was pretty public and vocal about that.

But I imagine an opportunity to actually compete for another Stanley Cup would help alleviate at a lot of those concerns. I love that. I mean, we'll see on Marchand, right? Because it's a tricky one. A, he's been very vocal about wanting to stay in Boston and finish his career there. So I would worry a little bit about what that would look like if he went on another team and then B, in the most recent game, he got absolutely destroyed and left early and like was needed to be helped off basically and looked like he was in pretty rough shape. So there's a couple other players. So you're saying that Vegas would have a player on LTIR. Yes. There's probably a third trickle down to this trade then if that happened, I'm sure. But no, I like that quite a bit. That'll be a really fun one. I mean, the content would just be incredible, Tom. Oh, the content would be amazing. Although if you trade Brad Marchand for Trevor Connolly, who really acquired the villain, right? That's really where it gets interesting. So look, in pitching my next one, I've got a couple options I can go or a couple of ways that I could go. So do you want?

to do my Marchand trade and keep that conversation going, or do you want to do my Vegas acquires a winger and keep this conversation going? Oh, man, I want to do both. Both sound great. Give me, uh, let's do the Marshand one first. So, because I was thinking about it, do you know that John Mullaney's stand up bit about like the New York post hierarchy where like, you know, babes, like the innocence are sort of like the most, um, the most relatable.

the like good guys. And then, and then at the top is like the creeps, right? He has this whole hierarchy of how like old timey newspapers used to cover, uh, or tabloid newspapers used to cover like drama, right?

And, and I think there's this cycle that NHL players go through where it's like, you're a young prospect, so you're like a babe. You're like, invested by a fan base as hopes. Then you become an established, highly paid NHL player and you become judged based on the unmet expectations.

And then you hang around. hang around long enough that you're back to being like part of our lives and it's like, wow, I can't believe I get to see this guy play again. You know what I mean? And there's like this nostalgic sort of love that overflows for a player. And I think Brad Marchand has kind of been through that where, you know, sort of comes on the scene in that 2011 run, right, becomes this Uber pest subject to headlines and intense criticism throughout his career, plays that up, is obviously.

a showman and then he you know legitimately became an elite winger and now he's sort of on the downside of his career the back nine and still effective obviously but maybe not quite the elite like top five winger that he was even a couple years ago but i thought that you know all that canada footage right and and you know him making fun of crosbie's drop pass in overtime and and just sort of laughing with the boys the video of burseran and crosbie all riffing him for being in the same size clothes as Bergeron's kid after they won the gold medal. It's like the Brad Marchand is now a good vibes player arc is complete. Like that has come about.

And so I actually was thinking about Brad Marchand to this Columbus blue jackets to aid to the good vibes of the blue jackets run, give them an experienced winner, give them like just an attitude guy, a guy who's been there before, or a guy with real weight to sort of be, you know, something of an additive face to this fun rush scoring team that we're seeing here. And with Boston getting Minnesota's first round pick in 2025, that pick, of course, is first top five protected, which I don't think is relevant at this point.

So it's really a mid to late first in exchange for Brad Marchand to sort of give the, give the blue jackets, you know, at this point, a guy who I think would aid and add to the good. vibe story we're enjoying unfold in Columbus. What do you guys think? So who are the angels and the tauts who are being acquired? The angels and the tauts, that's right.

The angel, well, so the, the tauts, I think, are the, are the young, are prospects. Any prospect is a tot, and the angels are, like, guys on the back night, like, Crosby is an angel. Of course. And presumably there are no perv, no perves involved here. No.

No, no, the perves in this case. Or bozos. I, I, I, I, I, I, love Jack that you completely got that reference and in fact remembered the bit better than me that's fantastic the babe to creep scale what uh i i feel like i feel like brad marshion unfortunately skipped the initial babe phase though i feel like he immediately started off as a crepe i think it was just isolated to boston yeah that's probably fair i mean i like that i got another big bluejacket swapper that i'm going to save for later um but i like that quite a bit i think i think the storytelling that you weave there was

You brought it home. I was worried initially when you started. I was like, how's this going to go? And then I brought it. Well, and let me, let me now do the Vegas trade. I'm sorry to jump in and do too rapid fire. But I think that the Vegas conversation is fascinating because Jack in creating this trade, I think hit on something, you know, Trevor Connolly's inclusion, I think is actually signal, right?

There's actually something meaningful to discuss there beyond just the, you know, package and the value there, which is that Vegas is pretty quickly running out of that post expansion haul of quality futures to deal, right? They're out of Brandstrom Suzuki types, right? Like, they don't have that huge prospect arsenal of trade assets to permit them to do the very Vegas golden nights thing and steal star players at every deadline no matter what, you know, and oftentimes sort of shocking us. when they do so, as they did last year with the Tomash hurdle acquisition.

And so in thinking about what Vegas can trade, right, I keep coming back to Nick Hague, right? Nick Hague's expiring. He's going to be expensive to keep. They already extended Braden McNabb. They already extended Chey Theodore, right? Like they've got something of a log jam on the left side. Nick Hague obviously fits with how they play, but is, I mean, 26, I think he's really good. Like, I think he's a really good player.

And so as I come back to like, how does Vegas address the deficit in their top, on their top six wing? I keep coming back to Nick Haig, especially with sort of, you know, the reliability that we've seen out of, um, Caden Corsack. And, and I keep coming back to that as like the best chip that they have to play. So how about this one? Calgary trades Blake Coleman to the Vegas Golden Knights in exchange for Nicholas Haig. and oh sorry, sorry, it's Blake Coleman and Kevin Ball to the Vegas Golden Knights

in exchange for Nick Hague and Matthew Cataford, who's QMJHL MVP, like, just like, you know, the second best prospect in Vegas's system, not really a needle-moving futures asset, but probably the best Vegas can do without dealing Connolly. Yeah, I mean, Coleman would be awesome in that Vegas system. Right. So I do like that quite a bit.

I swung even higher. I, we shouldn't do. a lot of Rantanin trades because it's probably not going to happen. But I had the Knicks, Nick Wah and Nick Hague, and a second and a fourth for Miko Ranton to get ahead of your extension they're going to give him this summer and just get him on the team. And that would be a very vagus pick.

And for the hurricanes, they'd get a number of assets there, some really intriguing directions they could go, especially this offseason with all the flexibility they have. But points well taken. I like that one. What do you think, Jack? Yeah, I like Blake Coleman. I feel like

then Nick, Nick Waugh has become your Maxim Mammon because he seems to come out every time we do these deals. You always talk about how you think he's really good, but also that they should trade him.

Well, he's really good, but he's in this awkward spot contractually where he's in his mid to late 20s, he makes $3 million for the next couple seasons. He's probably playing lower on the depth chart than he would on a lot of other teams. And so getting a massive playmaking setter who's good with size at those terms, I feel like every team should be in on. And the reason why I keep including him is because we've seen Vegas's MO is turning players like that and leveling up into more kind of glitzy star players.

And so that would be their most obvious path to do so because they don't have the prospects that Tom was alluding to. So that's why it's not because I don't want him on Vegas. He's obviously awesome. And they seem to not want to trade them. But it's just the most realistic path to actually accomplishing what I think they want to do. but you're right i need to stop including i know i like the overall fit i think probably there would need to be

a little bit more going to calgary just because like it seems a little parallel like i'm not really seeing unless they really really rate cataford just because like they're playing ball as like a second pair guy and is he really big is that am i think of the right guy yeah the big line brand yeah so i i don't know like whether they would find Nick Hague to be super, super appealing relative to Ball, who they clearly rate and has been, I think, you know, pretty okay for them. But I feel like you add like another pick to that deal. And I mean,

I'm not going to begin to try to predict what Calgary is going to do at any given moment. So maybe that works out. I think for the flames getting off of Coleman's 4.9 over the next two years, especially as he gets to those mid-30s is interesting, right, as they're trying to kind of get younger and do this weird thing where they're competing for the wild card, but also with an eye to the future, getting guys like Farabee and Frost and their mid-20s. So, you know, heading into the year or even last year, we were like, all right, guys like Codry and Coleman and Huberto, like, how are they going to get off of any of this money? And all of a sudden now, if an opportunity presented itself to at least move one of those guys,

I feel like they should entertain it. I also think, although Coleman did score 30 goals last year. Yeah, Coleman. He's an awesome player. And he has all that pedigree. So with the cap going up, I feel like, honestly, like if Alex Tuck gets traded, it might be worth kind of thinking, oh, I wonder whether teams will look at Coleman as like a light version of Alex Tuck. They should.

He's exactly what most teams need at the top of the lineup or on the second line. And he's got that, you know, competitive juice. I think you need in skilled guys to actually win, right? Like, he's perfect for that in my view. The Hague thing for me, I do think Hague is a materially higher caliber upside guy than, then then ball i think for calgary you'd be looking at it as like okay ball is a guy who we think could maybe be a second pair guy for us hague is a guy we think could be like a two three type for us and like a ready made fit to be a running mate for zane perak long term um you know where

else do we where else do we level up and get a defender that young that good uh that big right this is a unique buying opportunity from for somebody right like somebody who needs defense, young defense, and has wingers, should really be looking at Hague, I think, and Vegas. I just, I, he's by far their best asset to address their deficit on the wings and they really should be addressing it, you know, short term, given the fact that I, I think their windows still open for a couple of years here. I like it. Also, they're both six six and like 275 pounds. So 100%. Massive human beings.

Yes. All right, guys, let's take another break here. We're actually going to switch over to part two of this double dip that we're doing here today. So you can check out the rest of the trades we'd like to see on there. We've got plenty more coming. I'm sure thank you for listening to the Hockey-PedioCast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.