The Hockey PDOcast - Trades we'd like to see - Part 2

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

Thomas Drance and Jack Fraser join Dimitri for an annual tradition on the PDOcast - cook up fun trades they'd like to see at this year's deadline.  This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty.  The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey Pedyo cast. My name is Dmitra Philpovich. Joining me for part two of the trades we'd like to see annual extravaganza. My pals, Thomas Drenz, and Jack Fraser. Guys, we're going to keep it going. I believe it's my turn to pitch a trade. So, Jack, I know that you were lamenting earlier on the fact that Seth Jones, going to the Panthers meant that our shared dream of Eric Carlson winning a Stanley Cup or at least competing for a Stanley Cup in Florida was over. But I'm here to assure you that it is not dead just yet because I've got a deal here that sends him to the Tampa Bay Lightning.

Now, we can get extra very on brand for the PDO cast. We can get very convoluted and include Blake Lazott's $1.8 million. I've got him in a bunch of trades because I feel like he's someone who, in a bottom six role, can help a lot of these contenders. That would make it a bit more complicated because of the Tampa Bay's cap situation. they would have to retain more on Eric Carlson. I'm not sure how willing they are to do that. But if we don't include them,

Eric Carlson, at I believe it would only require like 1.9 million or so of retention over the next two years from Pittsburgh, which is very manageable. Now, that would be their third retention slot used. Two of those are going to be opened up this summer, so I don't think that's that big of a deal. It's only 1.9 million for two years.

We just saw Chicago retain 2.5 million for five more years on Seth Jones. In return, since expiring, 900K. Nick Purbix is expiring. Isaac Howard, who is Tampa Bay's first round pick in 2022, has 46 points in 34 NCAA games. If you watch them in the World Juniors a couple years ago, I think he's a dog. And maybe that's why Tampa wouldn't want to trade him, because he's a perfect addition from that perspective for them. L.A.'s 2025 second, Tampa Bay's 26 first and Tampa Bay's 27 third, which gives Pittsburgh 11 picks this year. And at that New York Ranger's first rolls over to next season.

It gives them three first round picks in 2026, which is highly appealing for them. I know that they would ideally like to get a guy who could step in as a young player and play right away for them based on their desires. I'm not sure Isaac Howard's there yet. But in this deal, they're eating a bunch of money. But man, they're getting a top prospect and multiple picks. And I feel like that's probably the best they're going to do on this Eric Carlson trade market. and then Eric Carlson and Tampa Bay would be unbelievably fun.

I'll let you answer this one, Jack, first considering your affiliation with this absolutely dreadful Pittsburgh Penguins team. I like it. I honestly have come around on the Penguins, we're training a lot more on Carlson, actually, just to expand the market. Like, I don't, you know, especially with the cap going up the way that it is, I don't really see that there's much reason for them to be squeamish about retaining as much as possible.

And honestly, as much as I love Blake LaSotte, he is such a Tampa Bay type player that I think he might as well just put him in the deal as well. And then just add the extra retention on Carlson to make that happen. To make it a real Kyle Dubus Penguins trade, I think you need to add like the seventh through ninth rated prospects in the Tampa Bay Lightning system onto the deal. But I think it makes a lot of sense. It's a different destination than I ultimately landed on for Eric Carlson, but it's one that I think is pretty realistic,

and it wouldn't surprise me very much to see them pursue. Kyle Dubas is probably here rubbing his hands together being like, oh, give me Mitchell Chafee, baby. But I'm sorry, Kyle, you're not going to get him in this one. Just, should we have a conversation about how the Tampa Bay Lightning about evaluate defensemen? Because Eric Carlson just feels like not a player that Cooper would heavily desire, no? Which is why they desperately need them.

Like if you look at this team, by the way, this lightning team is really good. They've won eight in a row now. They went into Washington over the weekend and played a phenomenal game against the Capitals. They're two points back all of a sudden of the Leafs for first in the Atlantic to get out of that two, three matchup in the Atlantic against Florida. They're up to a plus 55 goal differential, which is behind only the Jets and Capitals. They're obviously a top three offensive team, but they've also been a top 10 defensive team by any metric this season, and especially with Basilevsky playing this well, they're a force to be reckoned with.

When I look at them in any series against either those two Atlantic teams, it's a bad matchup for them because their most exploitable weakness is the foot speed of their defenders, and in particular the decisions they make under pressure. And so Craig Bruy's forechecking Leafs, or obviously the Panthers with Bennett and Barkov and the Finnish dogs, all they're going to do is throw the puck behind them, those Tampa Bay defensemen, make them go back and get it, punish them for his turnovers,

and Tampa Bay's entire team is going to get stuck in the mud. We've seen that from them in a lot of these matchups against these teams. And so at least with Carlson, even though he's not the player he was in that regard in the past in his prime, would be still such a massive upgrade in terms of retrievals and getting the puck out of the zone cleanly and allowing their forwards to play up the ice. And then you could get into the spots where situationally they could just play him and headman if you want to, if they're pushing for offense, with that. top line. You can mix and match with Chernak and McDana. It gives you so many options. His cap the next couple years, regardless of how much Pittsburgh retains, is a mood point for them because they're one of

the few teams in the league that has all their guys signed over the next couple years. And so each year, when you add another seven and a half or whatever million to the cap, that's another buying opportunity for them without subtracting to just keep adding players of this caliber. And so I would love to see them take a home run cut like this. But I think that's a point well taken. in terms of whether Cooper would sign off on it because you even watch Team Canada. And he was doing it again. I know they got away with it and they won, but it's like, oh, man, I can totally see why this guy loves Colton Preco and even Travis Anheim.

It's very in line with everything he's done for years in Tampa Bay, even when they were winning cups, Zach Bogosian, Luke Shen, you've gone down the line. It's like these guys who they clearly cherish that don't have a lot of this ability. I'm just not sure that they can get away with it. this postseason and moving forward doing that again. And so Carlson actually gives him a chance to realistically address that at a pretty reasonable cost. And Tampa was then on him, you know, whatever it was six years ago or seven years ago. So, you know, he wasn't exactly a beautiful defensive player then either.

I feel like the logic for Pittsburgh here as well. And then, Jack, I'll let you give me your Carlson trade is if they don't move Carlson at this deadline, you may as well book and I know what you just said Tom about the coach signing off in stylistic fits you may as well just earmark him going to Carolina once the actual salary he's owed drops

after the next signing bonus is paid it's so minimal he'll slaw right into Jacob Slavin who can cover for him he'll replace Brent Burns and I actually feel like Carolina they can't really navigate it this year because they just don't have enough cap space to work with but they should probably do a deal like this now because Brent Burns is just unplayable

in that role at this point. It's a legitimate weakness for them. So they're kind of waiting and biting their time hoping no one else snatches up Eric Carlson before then when they can acquire them. And we've seen Pittsburgh deal with Carolina. Probably the joke you're making jack is it'll probably be a bunch of middling prospects and guys who don't really fit the bill of what I just said, which is like Isaac Howard, who has legitimate juice, a future first, stuff like that. They'll probably get more medium pieces from Carolina if they do a trade like that this summer. So I feel like from Pittsburgh, the alternative is a less intriguing one to me. So I feel like they should jump on it now.

Yeah. And Caroline is not the team that I have very Carlson going to either. So apparently there's more Fis Farah Carlson. And it's not even Dallas who have a lot of people have been talking about. I've given up on Dallas adding a good right shot defenseman. That's pure wish casting from us at this point. Yeah. I had Connor Murphy to Dallas written right next to Connor Murphy to Edmonton.

but they are going to run Cody C.C. and Matt Dumba and Elia L. Bushkin and whoever else they can conjure up. What else do you have? So what's that? Yeah, give it to us. So the Eric Carlson? All right. So I figure what you want with Eric Carlson. I mean, I've been watching him very carefully the past two years, especially with the penguins. Basically, you need to slot him into airtight structure next to a partner that can take care of business defensively and basically let him do Eric Carlson, knowing that he is. still at the end of the day, Eric Carlson and a total liability defensively. So if I'm thinking about a team that has a lot of talented left-shot defensemen

who are very strong defensively and able to absorb a lot of minutes with pristine defensive structure that also likes to play a rush game that will benefit from pucks being broken up out of the zone, the team that jumped to mind for me is the Los Angeles Kings for Eric Carlson. With you have Gavakov, you have Anderson, who can both play that left side. You know, obviously his old Norris enemy, Drew Dowdy, is on the right side.

He can absorb a lot of tough minutes. So that kind of frees him up to be a pure puck mover. You know, you have Brant Clark who's in that system, but who clearly just has not gained the trust of the coaching staff right now. And if you look at the age range of the guys who are on this team, other than, you know, by field. And, you know, it's good that Turcott and Laferrier have become big contributors for them. but, you know, they're in that middle zone.

They have guys like Kopitar and Dowdy, you know, Fiala's in his prime, Kempay's in his prime. Like I think they do kind of need to push in and go for a little bit more now. Now, I have a psycho version of this trade that also gets Ricard Raquel in Los Angeles, and it involves Brand Clark and a first drum pick and Trevor Moore, an old dubous favorite as a capped-up as well. I'm sure that this would basically be a 50% retained on Eric Carlson. So I think that leaves him at $5 million for the next couple of seasons.

Yeah, I like the fit for him. I think Ricard Raquel also would give them a boost of their depth. He was obviously having a terrific season this year. He's going to flirt with 30 goals. He's well acquainted with Adrian Kempé as well, you know, add a nice little Swedish element to their winger depth and help them maybe push in a little bit more and not just constantly be stuck in that mushy middle zone. It gives them a bit more offset, I think. I mean, that would be an interesting way for L.A. to juice their offense that we haven't thought about.

And for Pittsburgh to fully leverage some of the movable pieces they have to actually add like premium stuff in Clark in a first. So that would be interesting. I like that. I didn't really think about that option. What do you think, Tom? Yeah, I like it a lot. I mean, anything that gets players of Carlson and Reckel's ability

onto the King's roster, I think matters. And one other thing that I think matters is getting the Kings another option. Like one thing I thought about a lot watching that King's game against Vancouver where, you know, they just come off of steamrolling.

They just come off of steamrolling. come off of steamrolling Vegas in the third period with that byfield line, but they went right back to having Kopitar play with their wingers that have the most juice. And look, I think that Copatars, you know, going to have a statue of himself outside the Staples Center at some point. He's going to be one of the great winners in King's history. And, you know, there's a level of respect that that entails, that comes with that. And yet, I think what's best for the Kings at this point in their sort of team building cycle with where they're at is to empower Byfield, get the most out of Byfield.

There's no path for this King's team to win again, you know, where Byfield doesn't significantly level up. And I think that opportunity matters, even though, you know, they went with it this past weekend and it didn't go well. I still think there's a logic there. So bringing in a winger like Raquel in particular, I think matters, given where the Kings are at, just because I think you need someone, you need a vet with juice and weight. I think if you're going to optimize this king's lineup,

given just sort of where Kopitars at, where Byfield's at, and I think Raquel, just adding another body like that, another player of that caliber, and with that level of experience, I think matters a lot, like maybe more for the Kings than it would for most other teams.

I actually looked long and hard trying to figure out an answer to this problem as I see it, and couldn't really find a good answer. I like the Raquel one a lot. And then obviously Carlson and Doughty on the same blue line is like an NHL, NHL 2015 dominant GM mode blue line. So I'm here for seeing it, even if we are seeing it a little bit too late.

Has a little bit of a Galacticos, like Real Madrid Galacticos feel to it, don't you think? Like Carl Malone and Gary Payton joined the Lakers, like one of those things that sounds, looks amazing on paper, but I don't know. famously well. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I don't know. There's something about the vibe of it that I don't love, but I do think it's interesting and certainly is in line with what the Kings need,

which is just more high-end talent. The King's moving, Bran Clark, enough first just to lose throwlers in six games in round one again would be legitimately funny. So I think I'm in on it for that purpose alone. Tom, I believe you're next up. I know, you know, I was talking about the lightning. You and I off air were chatting. I know that you had a trade involving. them as well. It's your turn. So you can go with that one or you can go any direction you want. Yeah. So I'll go with the lightning. I'll go with the lightning trade because I've been obsessed all season with just like they need to add a right-handed finisher for the power play. They never really

replaced Stamcoast. I think Atkinson was an interesting try there because he has succeeded at that left circle in the 131 in the past. But for obvious reasons, it hasn't worked out. I saw Mitchell Chafee scored again this weekend, so that's good. But a lot of the time you're watching that power play and it just doesn't really work as much as I love Brandon Hagel with him in that left circle. Like it just slows things down too much in my view and sort of neuters what's most special about the lightning penalty kill when it's working, which is whether there's a seam or not, Nikita Kucherov is going to find it. Right. Like that's, I want Kucherov to be dealing with a one-timer threat on the opposite circle whenever my opposition takes a penalty.

Like, I want that. I think the lightning need it. And so there's some decent options that you can find if you really sort of squint at this list of, you know, at whoever's trade board you prefer, Palmieri, I know, is a popular one. But here, here's what I designed. This is my Vancouver Canucks Two Step. You ready? Brock Besser goes to Tampa Bay at 50% retained.

For, Toronto's. second round pick and Isaac Howard. Okay, the Canucks don't really care about picks. They want, they want players. Isaac Howard, you know, I think you're right. He's probably not ready. It's a big price, I suppose, but realistically, Bessor's the sort of player, you know, scored 40 last year that should return a first in the prospect.

Tampa Bay can't pay a first. So the Canucks instead get a better prospect and an inferior pick. But again, the Canucks hate draft picks. They have no desire to trade Brock Besser for draft. picks and as such they're going to pivot having done this deal and trade a two second round picks to the Montreal Canadiens for Jake Evans which pretty significantly beats like the Wenberg price from a couple years ago so the Canucks basically will move Besser in a second they get Jake Evans a 28 year old expiring center he's got some speed he's got a little bit of offensive

juice but that's not really his game perfect Rick Tocket player though right right handed adds some diversity to their center group. All of a sudden, you're looking at like a Pedersen, if he can bounce back, Heidel Evans down the middle. I don't think we're looking at that as like a fatal flaw or like a really bad center group that's more like average, I think, especially if Pedersen can get back to doing Pedersen stuff next season. So, I mean, and then they add a player in Howard who, you know,

can slot into the lineup as soon as next year, probably gets blooded down the stretch this season. And all of a sudden, you know, you're looking at Vancouver, needing to, yeah, add some juice on the wings, but having guys like Le Caramacky and Isaac Howard gives them some, you know, high upside sort of lottery tickets with a relatively complete blue line for the first time in five years. Look, it's not perfect, but if you're taking a measured step back without waving the white flag on the season, you know, one of the other things about adding Evans is that it bumps

Pew Souter back to the wing where he's like really good, right? So look, that's your Besser replacement is Souter on the wing. Is it as high high upside? Is it as high octane? No. But, you know, this team has to face the reality that their ceiling this year is probably loses in five to Winnipeg. And as such, you know, getting some assets, a 28-year-old center, an interesting wing

prospect out of, out of, you know, Besser's expiring situation, I think is a relatively good outcome for Vancouver. Tampa Bay adds a right-handed, you know, stud winger, who I think could play even third line. Like, I think you could play them with geeky and have him drive there. And then, you know, the Montreal Canadiens return fair value for, you know, a third line center who's expiring and who, with whom contract talks haven't gone anywhere. So I think this one makes sense for all sides. But yeah, the Vancouver connects two step. That's an interesting fit for Tampa Bay because the right shot, middle six, top unit power play is a clear need.

They also, as I said, in the Carlson section, would be able to retain him on the open market, most likely as well, right? Get ahead of it and sign him because they have a bunch of cap space opening up, at least another seven and a half for them to work with next summer. So that would be interesting. There's been a lot of smoke speaking of wingers in Tampa around them and Alex Talk, right? And I'm not sure how much validity there is to it, but I also think the idea of going Kutrov Point and with Gensel, obviously, then Hagle Sorelli, and then Paul in Tuck.

as a third wave would be unbelievable and would set up an amazing series against Florida, for example. So I'd probably prefer them go in that direction if that is an option available to them, as opposed to a Besser one. But I get from a fit perspective and a skill set perspective why that makes sense. Yeah. Bester, I was having a real tough time finding a fit for Bess. So I think that you found probably the best one that I could think of,

especially now that the Wild have gone to Gus Nyquist direction instead. Yeah, basically anything that kind of adds a third player to that third line is smart. Alex Tuck is probably more fitting in with the M.O. But I like your logic on the power play. And that wasn't something that I had considered. The Canucks part of the trade, I'm a little bit less hot on. I like Evans. I think he's a perfectly okay third line center.

I don't like what we're hearing about what his extension talks look like, especially considering his goal totals being massively boosted by basically just like having a hot stick the first half of the season. He has one goal since January 1st. I think he's okay. I think he's a good penalty killer. I think like a true cup contender will probably be happy if they acquire him. And I mean, it wouldn't even shock me if Tampa Bay was the team that did that. I don't know if you say it was two seconds that they would be sending for him.

Yeah, that was, I sort of modeled it off the Alexander Wendberg deal, which was second and a conditional fourth, a little, a few years ago back. Yeah. If Vancouver was looking like they did last year, I'd maybe be more into that. But, you know, again, this is, this is a high upside Vancouver team. So I can see the logic. I don't know whether the Canucks would be the team that I would say, should be spending two second round picks on a guy like Evans.

So you're right. You're right. And I agree with you. And I want you to know that. I just also have watched and observed this team for long enough that, you know, there is this thing that they will pay for, generally speaking. And it's guy in the right age range. So for them, that's a little bit wider than it is for us.

27, 28 absolutely qualifies. Jake DeBrusk, for example. And then they'll pay for the right hockey fit. Horonick would be an example. Marcus Pedersen would be an example. I didn't like either of those moves given the upside surrendered for sort of where the Canucks are positioned, but that's sort of how they view it. You know, Elias Lindholm being a right-handed face-off guy was a big reason why they were willing to pay retail price on him at the deadline last year. Not again looking at any of those moves and saying and they were right. Like absolutely not. I actually think they were wrong. And they continuously focus on raising their floor at the expense of their. ceiling in a way that, you know, simply prolongs the suffering in the, in the market that I work in and live in, uh, in my opinion. But that said, for me, Evans 28, right handed, center, good speed, um, you know, talk at style player. I, I just think they'd look at that and be like,

that's a guy we're willing to spend real assets on. And really, it's a second round pick that they'd pay because they'd consider the other second to be something they just netted, uh, you know, in the best or deal. So they come out of it with sort of two younger, young-ish lottery tickets that can help them now and long-term, which, at least in the sort of Canucks twisted conception of what retooling or transitioning means, you know, is like more upside than I'd expect them to actually net in a better deal. So put it this way, Jack, I, Stockholm Syndrome style, like, I'm just in the bargaining phase still with like, how can I get the Canucks closest to something that makes sense, even though

fundamentally they won't do what just about every contending caliber team has done to assemble their roster. I was trying to think of Red Wings trades, right? Because they have so much cap space all of a sudden and they're so incentivized to make a push to get into the playoffs this year.

It might not happen because them and the HBs in the same division are only three points apart now because the HABs keep winning games but we have seen this HABs management team be smart about taking a longer term view. And so, Tom, I know you're obsessed with, like, taking a full defense pair and putting on a team, I feel like for a Red Wings team that's dreadful on the PK still is 32nd in the league,

they're giving up over 11 goals against per hour on the PK, them just taking this PK buzzsaw of Jake Evans and Joel Armiah and just being like, we're going to be absolutely locked down at every special team's component. We're going to have the best power play. We're going to have a very competent PK. Our 5-1-5 might not be the best, but if both those units stay hot, all of a sudden as games get tight, it gives us an avenue towards victory. It might not be as ambitious a move as Red Wings might do or their fans might like,

but I feel like just grabbing both those guys and essentially transplanting them onto Detroit's biggest weakness and addressing some of their 5-1-5 bottom six stuff as well would be interesting for them. So I had that as my Jake Evans spot. Yeah, I like it. All right, guys, let's take our break here, our final break. And then when we come back, we'll finish up. I wanted to do so now before we get into other trades,

I think the next one that I'm going to do and I'm up for one is going to take a bit of time to get into. So we'll do that on the way back. You're listening to the Hockey P.D.Ocast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. All right. We're back here on the Hockey-Pedocatio cast through the trades we'd like to see. I believe it is my turn next. We haven't talked about the New Jersey Devils yet. Now, Tom, you were pitching a Brock Bessor trade before.

I get the logic in terms of needing more finishing talent. I actually don't think he's a stylistic fit because you watch him play with Philippino, for example. he's just not off the rush, the type of element that I'd like there. And so the idea of putting him with Jack Hughes and Jasper Brad sounds good in theory. And then when you watch it, I feel like you'd be like, oh, man, those guys are kind of skating him off the ice and he'd probably wind up going further down the lineup, not addressing what they need. The devils desperately need to do something up front, right? The forward group, you look at it since December 28th, they've scored just 57 goals in 23 games, just 28th in the league of the time. in that time, only the Sends, flames, sharks, and Canucks have scored less.

Their 20th in 5-1-5 goals scoring on the year behind the Cracken, the Islanders, and the Flyers. They've played 1,300-plus minutes at 5-15 without Jack Hughes or Nico Hissure on the ice, so essentially bottom six minutes, and they're scoring 1.55-5-1-5 goals per 60 in that time, which is unacceptably bad. They clearly need to add a first-line winger to play with Hughes and Brat. They can finish some of the opportunities they create that Pallat just can at this point of his career, and probably a third-line. center to bump Eric Hala down the lineup. Now, I was racking my brain over this. And I think a team that

has both those pieces for them is the Seattle Cracken. Certainly a team we've discussed a bunch today, right? Guys like Oliver Bjork Strand would look amazing in that role. I think just you watch him play. Not only would he be better offensively for them, but does a lot of the little stuff to extend plays and keep possession that I think those two would benefit from. Yanny Gord, assuming he's cleared and would pass a physical. He's been out for a while now. Would be interesting in a third line center role. I didn't really know what the price would be in terms of futures.

To do so, it wouldn't really make sense to trade Dawson Mercer for that caliber of player. So I had a convoluted three-teamer. Now, where this falls apart is for the contracts to work, New Jersey would probably have to send Eric Hall to either Seattle or Pittsburgh. For some reason, I learned that Eric Halle, recall inexplicably has a full no trade clause this season. And so I'm not sure what is appetite to waive to go to one of those two teams would be, unless they could find an eventual destination for them before the deadline.

So maybe that's what would happen. But this is my three teamer, Jack. To New Jersey, Ricker and Raquel, and Yanni Gord at 50% from the Cracken. To Pittsburgh, Dawson Mercer, a 23-year-old ready-made NHLer with some upside that I think they really would covet. and Eric Halle, let's say, assuming he would wave there or they can find another place for him to go. And then Seattle gets the best of New Jersey's three 20, 25 seconds and another third or fourth round pick in the future as well. And all they're really doing here is sending a 50% retained injured, Yanni Gord, who's expiring this year.

And so I feel like that's a pretty, despite his name value at this point, that's probably fair. And so you get these three teams involved. New Jersey improves or upgrades to Rickard Raquel on the top line left wing. They bump up Yanny Gord into the third line center role and then would probably need to make an additional move to add a guy like Justin Brazo or some sort of a cheap right winger to play on the third line because you have moved Dawson Mercer in the process. But that would be my three-teamer for New Jersey

kind of trying to address their biggest weaknesses right now in their lineup. I think you nailed it except I still think Gord has a little bit more value than that even injured and everything. But other than that, I mean, you nailed your Kyle dude with some impression there. There's been a lot of talk that part of their hesitance to move Raquel has been, they don't

want to end up with nobody to play with Crosby because Raquel's like one of their few wingers who's done well with them lately. Flipping him for Dawson-Merser really seems like exactly what they would do. The kind of thing that they would be prioritizing with that. So, you know, I don't know whether, you know, there's, there's been chatter in the Pittsburgh market. Oh, they're only going to move them if there's a first round pick involved. But I could definitely see Mercer being the kind of guy that would get Dubus interested.

I'm still. Maybe just a little bit extra on the outside. Yeah, especially at 50% for Gord. By the way, I'm still a Mercer guy. Like, I would hesitate to move him because of his age. The issue for me with this, the way this Devils team is constructed is you, look and like when he plays with Nico Hishir and Timomeyer for example they're struggling to break even this season he hasn't really been able to generate offensively at all when he's not playing

with Jack Hughes everyone even Andre Platt creates some when they play with Jack Hughes so that doesn't really tell me that much about what he's doing and so it's a big price to pay but man forget the gourd part of this for a second I could even do without that Rickard Raquel on the top line with the way he's play this year with Jack Hughes it just for Brat would be a game-changing level line that could just absolutely devastate opponents. So I feel like that's the type of move the devil should be making.

It's a pretty steep price, I think, still. But it also checks a lot of their balances. Raquel has an extra year on his deal that I don't love, although by then the cap hit is very manageable. But they're also operating on this timeline where you want to keep your books as flexible as you can, heading into the summer of 2027. You want to scale this out so that you're maximizing

the five years Jack Hughes still has at $8 million. and so doing that while adding a player who can really accentuate what he already does so well, I feel like is a no-brainer for the New Jersey Devils. What do you think, Tom? Yeah, well, just I want to point out, I think one thing, one reason that we keep coming back to the Cracken is that it's hard to come up with seller teams. And, you know, as we treat this episode like a deadline preview, I think that's one of the sort of fascinating, fascinating dynamics of this deadline is, I mean, there's like five pure

seller teams and some of them like Chicago like don't really have any high value rentals aside from Ryan Donato who's going to return what a fifth round pick a fourth round pick maybe right so it's just a fascinating dynamic like if Seattle decides to sell which I think they should but if they decide to sell like they're the team with a bunch of those you know that burukovsky Bjork Strand mccan tier of guys uh you know sort of outside of the probable competitive window of this Cracken team, you know, that actually move the needle and could like significantly change the complexion of contending teams while also netting significant returns. I sort of just wanted to come back to that and point it out because I think it actually

tells us a lot about sort of the shape of this marketplace that NHL teams are navigating. I think that's a really salient point. My final thing on the devils I mentioned, I kind of just threw in there, Justin Brazo, who I love. And it would be interesting. You talk about size in the wing for them. It's so cheap on the third line. For example, if they did this,

let's throw Blake Lazotte in here as well. I know we just talked about, I don't want to spend a disproportionate amount of time on Blake LaZot, but I just wanted to note that he's been playing this year pretty much entirely with two offensive black holes in Nolachari and Blake, and Matt Nietto. He's got six five-on-five goals in like 460 minutes. The devil's bottom six.

Guys like Hala, Lazare, and Dowling, who have combined for 1,300 minutes of 5-15 have seven goals total. So just that kind of, I think, gives you context for like how marginal an offensive upgrade it would be, but what it would mean because they're just getting nothing from those guys right now. And it's a massive weak link for them. So I would like to see the devils significantly improve their forwards. And I think there's a couple of creative ways to do so.

Jack, I believe you're next up on this list. What's your next trade? All right. My last reasonable one before I rattled off stupid ones at the end is. Trevor Zegas trade as his tradition on these episodes. I had a really hard time finding places for him to go that made sense. I think I've found one that I kind of like, which is him going to a fun team.

We talked about this team being a lot of fun and very likable. He's going to the Columbus Blue Jackets, and he's going there in exchange for Cole Cillinger and some kind of other future, maybe like a second round pick or something. I am not a huge coal-cylinder guy, but he is bigger and plays heavier than Trevor Zegris, which is something that the ducks seem to value quite a bit in basically every single acquisition they've made under Pat Verbeek. I'm also, I didn't actually check this, but I'm just going to assume from a pure numbers standpoint that at some point, Pat Verbeek probably played with Mike Cillinger.

I have no evidence that this is the case, but I just assuming that it is. That's a good bet. I think Solinger fits the MO of the Ducks at this point better than Zegris does. Obviously, Zegris needs a change of pace. And I think he plays a, you know, fun, creative-skilled game. I think he's honestly been underrated at this point just because of the circus around him at the beginning of his career and obviously being in a tough spot in Anaheim. But I think Columbus would give him an opportunity to reset his career, show off a bit.

give the jacket some of that kind of high upside skill that they've seemed to get the most out of lately. So that's my Ziegress pitch so he can finally stop being miserable in Anaheim and have some fun somewhere else. Tom, I'm going to jump in here because I have also have a coal cylinder trade. And so I feel like it makes sense to just do it here. I don't have any, by the way, Jack, that's a very interesting one. I agree with your sentiment. I don't have any additional thoughts on the Ducks. We've spoken too much about them this season here in the PDO cast. I have a Ducks trade. I'm going to give you right after this, though. It's perfectly depressing. I hate it already. To Utah. Coal Cillinger.

Ooh. And the worst of Minnesota or Columbus is 2020-1st, which gives Utah another trade chip in their treasure chest because I think they're going to go big game hunting this off season. And then it gives them a center in Cole Cylinder, who's still 21. I agree with what Jack said in terms of I've been pretty underwhelmed. His numbers don't look good, but he's still so young and obviously was a top prospect previously. To Columbus,

Matthias Machelli, who has been buried in Utah this year, has been a healthy scratch the past couple weeks, but we saw his playmaking ability last year is in his mid-20s, and you look at Blue Jackets, left side, they've got JVR

and Jack's best friend Zach Aston Reese playing in their middle six left wings. So I feel like adding some playmaking juice off the rush with Machelli there would be interesting. And then this one I really struggled to include because I love this player probably more than anyone. But I'd also give them Michael Kesselring in this deal. Wow. One of the NH stills talk defense from the last 25 years according to quarter century team building system. They've got Proverov as a UFA on the right side this year.

They've got Fabro playing on the top pair since they've. claimed him with Orensky. I think a guy like Kesselring who's still in his mid-20s as a right shot for cheap, that's the type of player at Columbus should be trying to get to play with Wrenski or Denton Mitechuk moving forward. It will be a core piece for them.

And so the only reason I included them, I had another Kessel Ring trade that I can drop here in a second, but ever since they got healthy on the blue line, you look and it's like the past eight games with all their guys back. He's playing like 14 minutes. A game has kind of fallen down the depth chart. They have Marino

and Jersey on the right side signed for the next couple seasons and then they have guys like Simashev and Lamarou coming as well that they've drafted recently and so it'd be kind of dealing from an area of strength for them improving an area of weakness which is down the middle and so I thought this would be an interesting trade for both sides but I don't know because I'm pretty low on Syringer relatively and I'm pretty high on Kesselring so maybe I'm talking myself out of it here but I feel like these two teams would be a fascinating trade match as like these young exciting teams in opposite conferences that maybe have complementary pieces that they could help each other with. I think the thing for Columbus, though, is, you know, with the emergence of Kent Johnson,

with what you've got with Fantilli, with Monaghan signed long term, right? Cole Cillinger feels to me like the asset they need to use to hit a home run. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know that Michael Kesselring is your home run. I think if you're Columbus, whether it's at this deadline or you keep your powder dry, because, you know, you've got some time here. Oh, by the way, who's that guy, that Luca Della Bulls guy?

Yeah, dude. Looks like a player. Yep. Yeah, it looks like a player and looks like a, you know, like a upside bet at a third line center there too, right? So you've even got an internal answer. My point being that at some point, I think the Cillinger asset needs to return, you know,

like it needs to be Cillinger in a first plus to bring in a star player. Like, that's what Columbus has to. do they've got to trap a star level contributor and that to me is their best package to do so um you know what i mean is it like if if the canucks at the draft decide that they're going to consider dealing patterson right is that who how many teams in the league offer them something better than that at this point you know what i mean like i i just think the cylinder asset matters for the blue jackets here. So that would be sort of my one bit of constructive feedback about that particular fake trade. I'm glad I didn't include my Elias Pedersen for Ken Johnson one for one here.

Yeah. No, I think I agree with with trans just in terms of Kesselring's third pair guy right now. Machelli is like a fourth liner like bordering on like depth player for them at this point. I actually wonder whether Cillinger might have enough value around the league that you wouldn't want to burn it onto guys who probably don't have that much value even if I agree with you them that I like both of them

and I think that they would be shrewd acquisitions for something. I don't know. I think you guys are underselling Kesselring. I mean, a 25-year-old massive right-shot guy with legitimate offensive juice that makes 1.8 million or 1.4 million next year and is then an RFA after that. Like, that's a premium asset in my opinion,

especially for the blue jackets if you're looking at future partners for Wrenski and Ritechuk in the top four. Like I don't know. I think that would be an incredible fit for them. But yeah, from like a star name brand perspective, maybe you're better keeping your powder dry for the blue jackets. You can be right, them. I follow the logic. I like, I like Kesslerang a lot too. I just think that they need to, they need to be realistic about what their chances are of like landing another goodro in free agency.

You know, like it's not significant. they remain the blue jackets and and that overall logic i think needs to be factored in i suppose in why sylanger to me is such a crucial asset for them here down the line so really quickly i want to do my ducks trade and then and then i've got a three-teamer that involves the capitals deciding to it's not a three teamer it's actually a two step another connect style two-step but it involves the capitals deciding to stick with what's got them here as opposed to being a traditional buyer and the Edmonton Oilers upgrading their goaltending. But first, the Anaheim Ducks trade Brian Dumlin to the New York Rangers with a sixth round pick in exchange for Zach Jones. Just take some money.

Take some money. You just traded Lingren, right? You need a lefty. We need to get out of this silly Manchukov Zellweger rotation that we've got going. that makes sense for both sides. It's completely unsexy, but please, please get that done. Listen, I'm with you. The sentiment's great, and they need to do that.

Time is way too precious right now. We're running out here, and I cannot believe you just place them in on that. That's unforgivable. All right. Excuse me. Here's my two-step, okay? So the Washington Capitals, whatever happened to that imminent Charlie Lingren deal, it's pretty interesting that we haven't heard anything about it in months now.

But they signed Logan Thompson. They've got two pretty decent HL goaltenders. They can trade Charlie Lingren to the Edmonton Oilers for St. Louis's 2025 second round pick and Edmonton's 2026 second round pick. Lindgren's really good, but also he's a goaltender. And I mean, we just saw Jake Allen go for what, a conditional third last year. That was sort of the big pre-deadline goalie trade last year. So this is a pretty significant premium on top of that. But the Oilers get Charlie Lingren in this deal for a pair of draft picks.

Now, the Washington Capitals aren't simply going to take a diminishment of their sort of goaltending depth and do nothing to improve their overall roster. They're then going to go out and trade for Yan Gord. So Yan Gord to the Capitals to address their sort of upgrade over Lars Eller, bring in some center depth. You can always play them on the wing if need be. For Ethan Bear to make the money work. the St. Louis pick that they just acquired from the Edmonton Oilers and Washington's conditional fourth, which would become Carolina's third rounder if Washington advances to the cup final.

Maybe it's a little light. Maybe they have to spend a little more. Maybe it's their first with sort of the second that they, the blue second that they get, just representing a trade down instead of an all out thing. But I think the caps would effectively trade goal tending depth. for a more robust sort of center group. And I think Yan Gord with some of the dog attributes would be a really nice fit for what they do

and give them a third line center who's a much better bet, I think of producing meaningful offense than what they currently have with L.R. I think both you guys are overvaluing Yannigord here. Listen, I love Yannigort as a player. He has not been Yannigord for two years now. He's a 33-year-old who hasn't played since January 2nd. I think that's a pretty big risk.

I think the idea of what he once was is incredibly appealing, and I could see the capitals going down this route. But I would temper my expectations on what I actually think he could provide. I do like this sequence of trades for the Oilers, certainly. I was asking you guys whether either of you had Oilers moves, because I feel like we should have some. I was just almost paralyzed by the quantity of needs they have and the lack of assets they have to accomplish it that I didn't even know where to start. Bennington for a first baby. I couldn't figure out how to get them speed. I want speed in their forward group to offset, you know,

McLeod-Fogle Holloway. I think that's been noticeable throughout the year. And I think it's especially noticeable when they're not winning. But I just couldn't figure out how to get it done. So I think they had a really bad summer, unfortunately. And it just sucks because I still think they're the best team in the league. I mean, they need speed up front, especially in the wing. They need a goalie.

And they also only have one Brett Kulak, unfortunately. By the way, they've just played in Carolina over the last. the weekend, Brett Kulak led the team in Ice Time and played like 25 minutes and looked awesome. Brett Kulak rocks so much. But unfortunately, they only have one of him. So they need someone else to play with either Nurse or Emerson, whoever Kulak isn't covering for. And so you put all that together and it's like, man, I don't really know how the Oilers realistically accomplished it. Also, the Evander Kane stuff about his 5.125 and whether that's going to be an LTIR, whether they're going to shed it, what's going to happen with that the rest of the regular season. There's so many moving

parts there, but the Oilers are obviously a team of significant intrigue. Bennington for a first, baby. No, no, no. I don't think he's waiting to go to it. What's your next one? I don't really have any other sort of non-obvious fun ones. I was thinking about finding a way to get John Gibson, Dedmonton. I'm not sure that's the best use of their available assets.

on the capitol's note I think your points well taken Tom I think the most logical way for them to improve or like get more out of their team right now would be adding a second line or top six winger that could play most likely with PLD and Wilson bump Connor McMichael

to third line center because that's going to be more difficult to find than a top six winger a guy like Bjork strand would look awesome playing with those guys. And then you bring in Ryan Leonard and you have a McMichael, Leonard, Mangiopani third line

to just throw at people in the playoffs that bumps Ethan Frank down to the fourth line. All of a sudden now that lineup looks pretty sick. But the issue is the barrier entry on that team right now is pretty high because any of these moves, it's like, all right, well, they just traded for Lars Eller and this would bump him out of the lineup. Or this is going to bump Ethan Frank,

who's really good, down to the fourth line. It's not like your typical, like the Oilers, for example, where anyone with a pulse would be incredibly interesting, they actually, I think, have to be pretty smart about whether whoever they add is legitimately improving their team or whether it's just kind of a lateral move just for the sake of doing something at the deadline. Yeah, I agree. I was looking at guys like Ryan O'Reilly and Jared McCann and Yanny Gord as well.

And I think honestly, unless they can find a guy who's around for another couple of years at a reasonable rate, then I think they might be just as well playing it small. What about Lawton? at least he was the other guy I consider but of the Gord for the caps What do you guys think about Well he'll be in

He'll be in Toronto anyway Yeah What do you guys think about the abs Because we saw them make the Ryan Lindgren trade on Saturday I thought that was a pretty outrageous price For a player who I used to really value But you watch in the past two years And unfortunately his body is just completely given up on him

Because he suffered like 45,000 gruesome injuries in the past two years they've just been burning through picks this year. I still feel like they keep talking about how it's a transition year, but then they go and make a move like that, and the top guys are playing so well that they probably don't just want to punt it. So I don't know, do either have any interesting, like, middle stat plus a pick or something to improve their second line center rule?

I was looking at Nazim Kadri, but I'm not sold on it. But it was basically the middle stat plus a pick one for that. Yeah, maybe Brock Nelson or a Ryan O'Reilly reunion, although we just learned from Middle Statt that like that center probably needs to be fast and be able to carry the puck because that's what that system requires. And so I'm not sure either of those guys actually fit that, although they're obviously, I think, better players than Casey Middlestatt in a vacuum. But yeah, I'm not sure what they're going to do there. All right, Jack, you got time for a couple more of your crazy flybys here that you want to guess. I have two, I have two crazy ones. My version of Nicolawa and Max and Mammon is Alexei Lafranier, who I trade every single year.

So I had to trade in this time, and I think I have a wacky one. So Lafranier, I'm still high on him. I still like him. I think he's a smart player. I think he has great instincts, very skilled around the net, good high-danger pass, but also is really smart at timing his routes and gets a lot of those tap-in chances that look really easy but are tough to get. I've compared him to Jake Gensel before. I think his upside would be a Jake Kensal type,

which is why I have him going to the Pittsburgh Penguins for the Rangers' unprotected first round pick back. So Kyle Dubus gets a young NHLer. He doesn't have to wait and see what that ranger's pick turns into. The Rangers get control of that pick again. They can decide whether they want to keep going for it, if they want to take a year and retool and reset. Penguins get a locked-up 23-year-old player

throughout the rest of his prime who can play with fellow former Ramoski Oceanic first overall pick Sidney Crosby for the rest of Sid's career and be a franchise cornerstone with whatever high picks the penguins get. I mean, I can see why you as a Penguins fan would sign off on this. You just essentially said, though, that the Rangers traded Alexei Lafranier for J.T. Miller, which I feel like would be incredibly difficult to swallow, even if you could make a fair argument to just having control over their first and not having that hanging over them over the next year and a half would be interesting. But I don't know.

I don't know how people are, how people are rating Lafranier anymore. And especially with the Rangers kind of in the bottom 10 right now and getting older. I don't know whether they think that they're going to realistically bottom up, but you might be right about that. I have one more just complete wackadoo one. Detroit Red Wings, they have their core locked up long term, which is a very nice thing with the cap going up. up. So why not add in two more core players who are locked in? The Izer plan finally comes to fruition. All these prospects that they've been drafting and accumulating who just don't quite have the start power, they just pack them all together. They trade standing Pelica,

Branson and Iguard, Casper, Comfer, next year's pick, unprotected to the St. Louis Blues for Robert Thomas and Jordan Cairo. Oh, okay. How did you say to this until the end? Empty the cabinet and then just add, you know, Thomas who can go with Dylan Larkin gives you an amazing one-two punch. Jordan Kairu, plenty of skill. He will slot in as Patrick Kane and Vladimir Tarasenko are Dunzo. And the Red Wings become a legitimate Stanley Cup contender while Dylan Larkin is still in his prime. Oh, man.

I don't know. I don't know if you have enough time left to fully unpack that one. I can't believe you just emptied the clip on us like that and drop the mic and left because that was, there's a lot to chew on. I mean, I love both Kairu and Thomas. So I feel like taking taking those two guys, especially with the cap going up and

the rest of their 20s being at this fixed rate is such a massive asset to any organization. And so taking a lot of these unknowns, even if their upside might be a bit higher or they're going to be cheaper moving forward, would I mean instantly make the Red Wings obviously significantly better. What do you think, Tom?

You got anything on that or any other parting shots here before he's out? I just regret taking any time on Brian Dumbull, and if Jayfresh had that in his bag. I can empty the clip here. I got a, I had a New Jersey sends their highest second round pick in 2025 to the Sabres for Jordan Greenway with one million retained, just trying to get them some forward size. I'm, I'm, I actually regret that I didn't acquire Breszo for them. Yeah. That was, that was, on my end.

I was trying to solve that Kings need a, need a forward with. weight thing to play with Copatar. So I was thinking about the Kings maybe trading their first round pick and Jeannot to the Islanders for Brock Nelson and Matt Martin. Need to get Matt Martin back to offset the loss of Jeannot, I figure. And then I had a Raquel trade to Utah. I thought Raquel would be a good fit for Utah and the sort of splash that they should make.

I figured, you know, we know that the penguins really like prospects as opposed to draft picks. I know the chatter is first round pick, but that doesn't actually feel like Dubus at all. So I was thinking, Artem Duda, maybe a Sokolov or, you know, one of those other prospects that they have, that goaltender that they have, Harabal, one of those guys. And then here's the, here's the angle I like about it. And the New York Rangers' 2026 second round pick, which would give Dubus the full set. We know that he's interested in betting against the Rangers.

Now he has both picks from the. Rangers 2025, 2026 season and can really hate watch. I love what Dubis's rebuilding track record that we get him to literally acquire a guy whose name is Duda. He's been acquiring all the dudes and now. All the dudes and one of the Dutas. I love the angle of them just shorting the Rangers moving forward, just acquiring any asset that's been affiliated with them and bidding against it.

I love that. All right, Tom, what do you got to plug on the way out? Athletic will have tons of trade deadline coverage. Check me out there and obviously Canucks talk. We'll be live on radio, by the way, Sportsnet 650, 10 a.m. to 1 p.m. through the close of the deadline on Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver. Love that, Jack. Elite prospects will be updating the trade board as things go in the next week, adding players who are rumored,

and will, of course, be extensively covering every trade that happens on my Twitter at J. fresh hockey. All right, buddy. And I guess blue sky, if I remember to. Yeah, both of you guys, keep up the great work. Thank you for bringing your best efforts here for this show. It truly does feel like Christmas morning. This was so fun. Hopefully, it helped the listeners get better prepared for the trade deadline. Have a bit of fun with us along the way. My plug is join the PDOCast Discord.

If you're not in there yet, this is a great chance to rectify that. We're going to be reacting to every trade in real time. There's some legitimately high-level convoys after the Seth Jones deal on Saturday. There's some really good stuff in there. so please join us if you haven't already. And that's all from us today. Happy trade deadline week to everyone that celebrates. We'll be back with more. We're going to do a two-hour reaction show,

breaking everything down that happened on Friday afternoon or early evening and plenty more covering the trades over the next two weeks. We'll have Tom back on next Sunday, of course, for our weekly Sunday specials. Thank you for listening to the Hockey P.D.O.cast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.