The Hockey PDOcast - Unpacking the Biggest Trades and Most Interesting Stories From This Year’s Trade Deadline

Episode Date: March 7, 2026

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by John Matisz and Sean Shapiro to break down all of the biggest trades and most interesting stories from this year's trade deadline. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Lessing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey Pediocast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the Hockey Pediocast. My name is Dimitri Filipovich. And joining me is my good buddy John Mattis. John, what's going on, man? What is happening? Not much happened today.

Well, actually, for a while, not much had happened. But it turns out that there was a fair amount of action on deadline day. But here we are 6 p.m. Eastern, looking to wrap this thing up. You know what? If you're soliciting any future story ideas, I feel like a fascinating one would be like being at the league office on trade deadline day and giving us behind the scenes of the queue process and all the processing because there's got to be a better way to do this.

And I get the idea of the deadline and, you know, the last minute machinations and everything and putting it all together right before the last possible second. at the same time from a process and workflow perspective, there's got to be a better way to trickle out these trades as opposed to waiting all day for nothing. And then all of a sudden, an hour past the deadline,

we're finding out now some Goddry's going to the a abs and all this other stuff's happening. And it's kind of just drinking out of a fire hose as opposed to the few drops here that we got for the entirety of the day. So maybe I banked that one for later. But also joining us today is the third member of our three-man band. We don't have an official sponsor name yet. We're still working on that, hopefully by next year.

We'll have a better title. Sean Shapiro, Sean, what's going on in? I am thrilled to do this with you guys. It also means after I do this with you guys, I was telling you before we hit record on this, I'm going to go head out to the bar, sit down with a couple buddies who and just watch some hockey on TV without worrying about whether my phone buzzes for the first time after the last 40, after the last 48. 72 hours. So I am thrilled for that this evening, but more thrilled to be here with you, with you too, because this is always a blast for me. Well, that sounds lovely and very well deserved,

but we got some work to do here. And I'm similarly excited, you know, this hangout that the three of us do in the aftermath of the trade deadline has become an annual tradition and staple for us here in the PDO cast. And similar to what we've done the past couple years, over the next hour, hour and a half, however long we go, we're going to work through the biggest moves, the most interesting storylines, just stuff we generally liked or didn't like or caught our eye specifically from this year's deadline and this year's deadline week in particular because a lot of the stuff happened in the lead up to Friday. John, I'll give you the floor here. What's the first most interesting angler topic that you want to pitch us on?

Yeah, I mean, there's a, it's, I don't want to like take the grouping of multiple teams on once, but I do think this is, this is an interesting one to talk together is, obviously I'm fascinated by the arms race, tuning up, whatever you want to call it, for those top three teams in the Central. And obviously it's one where we go from Minnesota made their big move a couple weeks back for Hughes. And so it feels like all these teams are kind of making these tougher playoff muscle moves, whatever term we want to use. And then obviously Colorado with the

Nazim Cadry move that comes in an hour after the deadline. So I want to start there because I think it was, you know, to be sure, you know my pal Bob Stern, Bob and I were chatting this morning and we were kind of going over the this deadline and we talk about prices on things and everything.

I think the central is a fascinating place to start because I think it's a cool case study in what is expensive and what is value and how maybe you have to look at that a little bit differently when you understand that you know you're in a collision course in arms race with two other specific teams like those three teams are. So I want to start there.

I don't know that's necessarily I describe it as involving muscles, although I guess theoretically getting stronger and bulkier, but more so like limb lengthening surgery where these teams are trying to get taller in the process. I guess when I say adding muscle, I'm using the terms of I'm sure all three GMs. I haven't gone and checked the tape, but I'm sure all three GMs talked about how they got tougher to play in the playoffs. I guarantee you all three used that line. It's nice.

It's a very inclusive phrase for a guy like Nick Blankenberg, because obviously I don't think he'd be able to relate to the tall component of it, but he's like, yeah, I work out. I'm muscular. I'm adding something to the abs here. So it's nice to make everyone feel involved. Yeah, no, that was number one on my list, of course, as well, just the Central Division Gauntlet, which already features the first, second, and fifth teams,

sorted by points percentage and doesn't even include Utah who's further down but similarly added McKenzie Weger who was one of the better players we saw and most impactful ones moved at this year's deadline and it's certainly going to make them better and they're going to factor into this as well although likely in the Pacific Division bracket through the wild card but I'm with you and John I think we got to start with the abs right because that's certainly on top of mind with the recency of Nazim Kadri being I think literally the last move of the deadline that we learned about coming in after the final buzzer and making it inside the queue.

And so it was a deal. I think we were anticipating as a reunion heading into this week, especially after the Kulag Gerard swap with the abs clearing out of a little bit of money and making it more feasible against the cap. And then in the meantime, they went out and they added Nick Gua the day before. And so it felt like that was probably going to be their 3C option. and maybe they'd add another winger or something, but it would take them out of the cadre sweep takes,

and then they come in flying from the top rope and make a move of, I think, significance and consequence. And so I'm fascinated by that fit, and I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on what the aves did here off the top and specifically the cadre edition. Well, I mean, what I'd say, first of all, is that the best team in the league leveled up while only losing Sam Gerard off the NHL roster.

And as you mentioned, he gets replaced by Kool. So it's really you're not losing anyone in that sense when you'd probably rather have Kulak in a playoff series anyways. Yeah, the last minute cadre edition, quite the cherry on top of what ended up being a pretty busy 10 days for them, even though it was pretty spread out. But I do like Kulak and Blankenberg being added to the blue line, especially when combined, they only went for a second and a fifth. when you look at some of the packages and some of the like weird returns,

I'll say over the last couple of days, I think that that's a pretty good result for the avalanche to, you know, guys you can just insert right into your NHL lineup for not a ton. And then obviously Nick Wa is a nice center depth piece. I wonder if it's going to be him or drag jury in that fourth line center position after cadre fills that third spot, probably Waugh, but I do like Drury. at center as well. So all told, I mean,

they traded two firsts, two seconds, two fifths, and then Sam Gerard, Max Curran, and Victor Oliveson. Like, aside from the first, there's not much of substance there. And obviously, like, Sam Gerard has his utility,

but it seemed like the abs and him were just not going to be a match for the length of his contract or the duration of his contract. So he was on his way out anyways. And as you mentioned, there were some cost savings there in terms of him being shipped out and then being able to eventually pick up cadre. So, I mean, kind of, I don't know, masterclass is quite the way I would frame it,

but like something resembling that in terms of like when you put all the puzzle pieces together and stack all the deals, you know, in one column next to what they gave up. And it's like, this was, you know, a pretty good 10 days for Chris McFarland. Yeah, they're armed down the most. middle now with McKinnon, Nelson, Cadre, Nicquah, and Jack Jewry. And I think Cadry's biggest impact or main value is going to provide is this power play for the ass we keep talking about that's 32nd in the league in efficiency, especially a massive weakness compared to the two other central division teams are lumping in here, where it's such a strength for the stars and the wild

after they acquired Quinn Hughes. There are 5.4 goals per hour, which is dead last in the league this year with a manned advantage. And if you go on hockey biz and look at the shot chart when they're in the power play. I don't think this necessarily explains all of it because ultimately these shots are coming from Nathan McKinnon, Martin H's, Kill McCar, they probably should be scoring on a higher percentage of them regardless. But all the shots are coming from like the top of the circle area. And there's no presence in the middle of the ice around the net. And I think that's been very noticeable in a potential explanation for why they've been so inefficient there. Cadreys going to work the middle of the ice. We have proof of concept from a couple of years ago, how effective he was.

in that spot as an interior shooter and playmaker bumping the puck over to some of his other linemates. And so that's going to be valuable. And then I think secondary scoring as well for this team. I was talking about this with AJ Haefley when we talked about the abs after the Nick Guauchrade. But kind of quietly for a team that's number one in five-on-five goals scoring this season, they've been so reliant on McKinn and Natchez to do all the heavy lifting there and really have not been getting a lot of five-on-five goals from the other guys lower in the lineup.

And Codry will chip in there as well. So I think that's going to be incredibly valuable and the price they paid, especially with the retention makes it palatable and I think a no-brainer. I was just going to say, like having that retention in there and not having to really pay a premium for it is pretty notable. And then also the fact that Cadry is rejoining a team that has the same coach as when he was there. Like there should be very little transition time here. So although he's 35 and not at the peak of his powers and, you know, he's got. a few years left on his deal, which isn't exactly ideal.

The fact that there's some retained salary there and then there's some familiarity and the fact that the avalanche should be pushing their chips in the middle of the table, I think it all makes sense when you sort of like put everything together. Well, having cadre of $5.6 million, just let me note this, then I'll let you jump in, Sean. The reason why I think it's so valuable is two-pronged. One is for the purposes of this postseason because I think they're hoping that Logan O'Connor is going to come back and play a valuable role in the bottom six on the wing to kind of supplement these centers we talked about.

And if they hadn't gotten retention, they would not have been able to field their best lineup essentially come to postseason because it's going to be a 95.5 million cap this year. There's going to be no shenanigans with getting above that. And all of a sudden now, if you include O'Connor, I believe their 12 best forward, six defensemen and two goalies come out to 94.5 million. And so it's going to fit in nicely there. And then for next summer, they have $100 million now committed to this team,

and Jack Jury is going to need a new deal. Burns and Kulak are UFAs, so if they're going to need to fill two defense spots. AJ and I talked about this. Val Matushkin and Ross Colton are almost certainly going to be gone this summer, and Colton only has one year left. Matruchkin has four, but the salary is lower than the AAV. And if he has a strong postseason like he did, when they won the cup, I imagine you'll be a desirable asset

with so little talent available in free agency. and so in a way, like you listed all those assets they traded here with the first and seconds and fifths. They're going to recoup some of that, I think, when they trade those guys and clear money and be able to essentially reallocate it and fill out the rest of their roster this summer. So this was a neat way, I think, for them to try and have their cake and eat it too, essentially by not subtracting from their roster for this playoff push, but then also being able to turn around and get the best version of whatever the team looks like next year and beyond

as well when Kill McCar starts making more than $9 million. And to kind of go on all of that, like we look at the thing, like we're looking at Colorado's deadline before they got Cadrian. Like, yeah, they did the, even those other pieces are like, you know what? The best team in the league, you've done these things,

you've made yourself better already. And then you go and getting cadre. And one of the things I always find fascinating coming out of the deadline. And I'm actually fascinated to track it over the next month and a half with this season because we get back to that compressed schedule, right? Like, we go, like, it's funny, we talked all about the compressed schedule for forever.

And then we had the Olympic break and we kind of forgot the schedules come compressed. And then you go and look at it and it's like, oh, oh, man, it's really going up again. I think having, there's a lot of these guys where we're like, this is the deadline, right? Some of these guys aren't going to fit. Some of these guys are going to take longer to fit across the league. I'm not talking about Colorado. I'm just talking in general. And I think when you add a known plug-in play asset, basically, what Cadreys is.

is for Colorado, I think that's even more valuable with this, right? Like, there is the, for, it's for Jared Beddnar is going to figure out, okay, is, is why going to where, who's going to be on the wing, who's going to be center? We talked about those five centers now and everything like that who's going to be where, but he's got these things to figure out. But one of their biggest piece, arguably, that comes in is you know exactly what you're getting. You know exactly where he's going to go. He's got the instant chemistry and familiarity with a bunch of that roster already. Obviously, not completely the same team. And I think that's such a,

I think that's an underrated part of this ad where there's other things like obviously maybe based in Detroit. Like I think when we'll talk about Detroit in a bit, obviously, but like I think Falk is what Detroit needed. But part of it is like, oh, there's going to be a fit and how does that blue line now, what is it going to look like?

And we don't know. With this, with the avalanche ads, with the cadre when you're like, oh, this, we know how this works. We know how this fits. And you can just count it as part of the foundation right away. And I think that's one of the things. things that would excite me the most from a Colorado perspective on this. And I think that's going to

be a little more valuable too, because what do we hear all the time, John, right? Like, there's no time for practice. There's no time for anything, right? And so all of these teams with their new additions, with this 20-game sprint, are going to be figuring out installation on the fly. And I would, I would guess, and I'd love to write about this and kind of track some of this stuff. And I'm saying it to you guys right now to hold myself to it. So I write about it three weeks from now. I'd love to see which guys where that installation has been clunky or where the ones were the guys where we think, like, oh my God, that would be a great fit. But you know what? With the practice schedule, with how condensed things are, it just turns into survival versus actual proper installation.

I think the avalanche have got the best case scenario here with this. A thousand percent. The stars. So they bring in Tyler Myers. and Michael Bunting, they pay a 26 third, a 27 second, and a 29 fourth. And what I like about what they did, because it's certainly not of the magnitude necessarily of what Colorado did or even Minnesota, if you include the Quinn Hughes raid, is they improve their roster heading into the playoffs in a sensible way in terms of identifying their biggest positional needs on their death chart, which is a right-jaw defenseman that can be trusted to play with Thomas Harley in a postseason setting.

And another sort of wing option that's a good retriever that can play with pace that can be trusted to not take too much off the table if they're playing in a top six role with their best forwards, which will allow them hopefully to bump some of these guys who I think have been overexposed a little bit, playing up the lineup because of injuries and stuff and cap limitations to a spot in the lineup in the bottom of six where it's more conducive for success based on their individual talent level, it helps the Myers is a 50% and they got the Canucks to retain that because it also allowed them to not take on future commitments, right?

And it was a clear priority in terms of maintaining leverage and contractual wiggle room with the Jason Robertson extension looming this offseason and they didn't want to box themselves into a corner where they had to make some sort of a desperation move as a result of whatever they did now. So that's the biggest selling point for me here. And I think it was a very reasonable combination of moves. And I do think makes them quite a bit better in important ways that they needed to address. And with bunting, I think one of the other things that I think is important to bring up right away in this, one of this, as good as the stars power play and special teams have been, if you go look at them, they're one of the worst teams in the league when it

comes to drawing penalties. Right. Like if you go through and you look through that lineup and you look statistically, right? Like, Miko Ranton is actually drawn. I think he had drawn 32 coming in, but he's also taken 31. Like Miko Rannan has been more of the goon than expected. Anyway, and Bunting comes in, and it's funny because it's really fitting in a way that the pick the stars used in this trade was the one that they got when they shipped Mason Marchman out, because they basically got the refined version of Mason Marshman.

back a year later where he's a bit of a diver but doesn't get caught nearly as much and doesn't take nearly as many of the bad penalties and so like all like like i think it was i think bunting was like a plus 15 net penalty drawn and everything like that and that instantly makes the stars better because that's one of the things glen goldson's talked about it throughout this season but their players have talked about this season they don't draw enough penalties to to activate that really good power play too so I really like that part of the Bunting deal. And I think that's one of the things that needs to be brought up right away too, because I think that's an undersold thing.

And I used the word chaos. You and I were messaging about it the other day and then I wrote about it over at my site where I liked the way the stars embrace a bit of the chaos here. But Bunstein brings a little bit more of that controlled chaos that allows the stars to put that power play and play a little bit more along those lines. I mean, you and I assume John as well, I don't want to put words in his mouth,

but I know you and I have specifically spoken about this, give the stars a lot of credit for, you know, generally being on the thoughtful end of the spectrum when it comes to NHL organizations in terms of roster construction and what they're trying to accomplish. And I'd like to think that this was by design in terms of putting critical thought

into the value, the hidden value, of specific player types they were bringing in. And I'm going to lump Myers in here for the opposite reason, essentially, but they both kind of work in concert based on the way postseason games are officiated, these two guys are uniquely capable of dragging these playoff games that Stars are going to play into special team slop fest, essentially, for a lack of a better word,

right? Like, they're going to create a game environment where 5-1-5 is less consequential in terms of determining the outcome of the game because a smaller portion of the game is going to be played 5-on-5. And I think that's a fascinating gambit because I think it's clearly their cleanest path towards beating Minnesota and Round 1 in Colorado in round two because of the strength of their special teams relate comparison to the 5-15 play. And Bunting, since he became a regular in the league in 2021, has drawn the six most

penalties in the league. And then we know that Tyler Myers is going to take a high volume of penalties himself. And that's not necessarily ideal in terms of putting yourself down a man. But for every penalty you take, you're probably more likely also to draw penalty yourself later because officials are hell-bent on evening this stuff out as games and series go along. And so I think just in general, getting the game away from 5-1-5 is the way to go for them to be most successful. And I think these two guys really help steer them in that direction. Yeah, and I thought that bunting for a third was quite the deal when you consider Nashville,

the same team traded Michael McCarran for a second. And then you've got Scott Lotton going for a conditional third that turns into a second if L.A. makes the playoffs. It's like, out of those three players, I'd rather have Michael Bunting. and he goes for the least amount. So I thought that was notable. And it also made me think like there's this sort of narrative around Bill Garron. I don't even know it was a narrative because I think he's come out and said it, where he likes to throw his best offer out there to the opposing GM right away.

Like he kind of just gets down to business. And that seemed to have maybe maybe come back to haunt him here with that Michael McCarran for a second. How magnanimous of him? Yeah, for a while just to close a loop on these central teams, you know, as we said it, It feels like forever ago now because it was mid-December, and we've had the Olympics ins and the holiday break and all this stuff. But we have to include the Quinn Hughes Blockbuster as part of this year's trade cycle for the wild, and that was undoubtedly the most consequential move in terms of the best player

that's moved this season, and we've already seen that impact on this wild team. I'm not particularly bullish on using a second on Michael McCarran, even if it's three years down the line. And I talked about with Harmon this week. I did really like the Eurocheck for Bobby Brink swap. And I know that, like, on paper, a 22-year-old right-shot defenseman is a far more valuable, high-upside prototype than a 25-year-old undersized winger the way Brink is. But in the limited viewings I've had a year-a-check, I find how stiffy is as a skater to be deeply troubling.

I think that's a reason why he hasn't really been able to carve out a role for himself. so far, which doesn't necessarily preclude him from having a successful NHL career. He's only 22 and has played like a season's worth of games so far, essentially. So I think it's a reasonable gamble for the flyers to take. But Brink is going to be so much more valuable to the wild, especially this postseason, because he plays with a motor. He's a great four checker. He can produce a five-on-five, and whoever they added isn't going to get power play time, especially PB1 on this team with the guys they have. And so he's going to need to chip in there. And then it's something I've been

talking about is Matt Zucorello, Marcus Johansson, Vlad Tarasenko, they're all in their mid-30s and they're all UFA's this summer. And so Brink is still going to be a team-controlled RFA and is going to be a part of their long-term plan. And so I think he's going to become even more valuable as soon as next season. And so I did want to include that here and talking about these teams because that one kind of flew under the radar a little bit today. But I like that quite a bit in terms of being exactly what the wild needed and the impact he can make from day one essentially. the other thing on that that the wild did on top of that and i i agree with you completely on the brink move the other thing that's interesting about the couple of them like they went through and there was

obviously there's the there's the there's the there's the there's the there's the there's the there's the there's the filino move that got way more airtime than any trade for nothing ever should have gotten today because of how things went but they also go and between that they just send the seventh for jeff petrie and they basically like i was looking at it once joanson's healthy once the other felino's healthy this is going to be a team that's probably going to be scratching five NHL players every night for the rest of the season once they're healthy, right? It was interesting to me because I talked about that like that schedule, right?

And I'm curious of how much, and once again, Jeff Petrie, Felino, these guys aren't going to be the reason you get past the Dallas stars in the playoffs. But I do wonder how many of those moves are made from the, this schedule's chaotic. I want to get as many bodies in here as possible. so I can, you talked about those mid-30s guys, you know what, when you have your back-to-back,

you don't need to play Vlad Teresenko on back-to-back nights, because you know who you're going to play, right? It's that very weird setup with Dallas and Minnesota where it's, who's going to, basically who's going to get the number one, who's going to get game one at home,

feels like what it's that. And so I wonder with, obviously, Garon's whole deadline and season is going to be really defined more and more by the Hughes trade, but I actually, as silly as it sounds, those little additional ads to make life easier for the rest of your

and put miles on some other guys who probably aren't going to play in the postseason, I actually don't mind that as well. And I think that also kind of adds to the little bit. Once again, not the reason they win a series, but I do think those are little things that you don't need that seventh round pick. And if you have no cap, there's no roster limit after the deadline. You should be doing things like that. For sure. I like that quite a bit.

Either of you have any more thoughts on the Central or any of these teams, or do you want to go to break and then try to cover the rest of the league here because we just spent the first full block talking about only one of the four divisions so far. Yeah, we can move on from the central unless you want to touch on the blues. Well, we should touch on the blues, but I want to save that for later because I've got a whole, I've got a whole shin. And so maybe we can save it for that. Let's take our break here.

And then we come back. We'll jump right back in there. We've got so much more to cover today. You're listening to the Hockey Ocas streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. All right. we're back here on the Hockey Pedyocast joined by John Mattis, Sean Shapiro, the three-man band, breaking down the trade deadline and everything in the immediate aftermath of it.

John, I'll give you the floor here. What's next on your list of topics or teams or trades that you want us to cover? I want to talk about the Washington Capitals. I don't know if there's a team in the league that tries and mostly succeeds at threading the needle in terms of, okay, we're going to both buy and sell out of death. line and it's going to look a little weird at first and people are going to raise some eyebrows, but when it's all said and done and the dust is settled, it all sort of makes sense. And so in this instance, John Carlson, essentially a franchise icon, he's traded for a first

and a third, I guess slightly before that, Nick Dowd for a second and a third and a goalie prospect, and you go, okay, I guess this is a sell-off. And then today they acquire Timothy Lilly for just a fourth round pick. And so obviously a right-handed shot to replace John Carlson, younger by a whole decade. And right at the end of the deadline time, they pick up David Camp, who, you know, he's not Nick Dowd, but like he can fill Nick Dowd's shoes to some extent. So it's kind of interesting there. And it obviously goes back to say the 2023 deadline when they ended up acquiring Rasmus Sandine.

even though they had kind of sold otherwise that deadline. And then obviously in the summer they pick up Justin Sorda for what looked like an overpayment at the time, a second, and I believe a fifth, and you go, oh, you know, this is the capitals. I'm sure they have a great plan for him. And then you look at him now. He's a really solid middle six player in the NHL. And what sort of all this adds up to is they've got this track

of sort of the present moment or the current season, and then they've got the track of the future. And so Liligrin's a future piece, even though obviously he fits into the present as well. But you've also got, you know, Ilya Proto's coming and Andrew Crystal coming and Cole Hudson coming. And then sort of like in the here and now of this season, they've recouped some picks for these pending UFAs. And so like I just find that they're this team that, you know, they're transitioning out of the Ovechkin era while also staying competitive throughout it. And it's like when Ovechkin leaves, there's, they're, you know, maybe even going to be better.

Like they're sort of slowly retooling, rebuilding as sort of a side project while they continue to be a pretty good team. And they just seem like such a decisive front office that seems to be thinking two or three steps ahead, not necessarily of like the rest of the league, but just sort of like in their own universe. Like, hey, we're making this move so we can make this move tomorrow and this move in the summer. And, you know, there's obviously some drawbacks or downsides to this. I mean, we saw Alex Ovechkin, Tom Wilson, Charlie Lingren, all of them seemed pretty rattled in their media

availability since these Carlson and Dowd trades. So there's got to be some sort of damage control there. But I think, you know, from a purely like business of hockey perspective, they had a super interesting last week or so. Your point, John, isn't the way they did that? Isn't that some of the best possible damage control. Like obviously those players are going to, well, we see the Wilson one, and that's the one that's the most telling to me. You just see the tears and everything like that. But if this was all you did, if all you did is to sell off and be like, hey, it's, it's one, like, players don't care about draft picks. That's always one of the funniest things to me where people will be like, oh, like, players don't care about the kid that the kid they don't know and they're

probably going to play with. But so I do wonder, like, it's, I think there is a, from the capitals, I think they did a really good job of giving Spencer Carberry basically the best possible path to solving that. They're obviously, Lilgrin's never going to be Carlson to the meaning of what he meant to those guys. But it's a lot easier to, if you didn't make them, all of a sudden it becomes like, well, we're just on the, we're on the, we're on the, it's just, we're all waiting through the water till the end of the season. It's like, no, we're actually taking steps. We're just moving things forward. Like I think that, I know it's a business side and it's going to hurt for players, but I think there's ways that from a player perspective, Washington put their coaching staff

in the best possible position to spin this forward. And that that's one of the reasons that if we're going winners or losers or whatever, like, I think that's really well done with part of these deals. I had the capitals pretty near the top of my quote unquote winners list coming out of this deadline. And I don't know if that's going to be countered. of popular sentiment or surprise people, but I think if you do take a step back and remove that emotion out of the equation and just look at it on paper, they essentially turn two 36-year-olds and a fourth-round pick into a first, two-thirds, a second, and a 27-year-old right-shot

defenseman, who's similarly a UFTA Carlson, but I presume is going to be a fit for them, especially with a connection with Sandine from Toronto and fitting stylistically with way they want to play. And so they're a team who's down to 25% playoff probability in the east. There's six points back of the Islanders for third in the metro. And it seems like a long shot at this point with less than 20 games left. And so I feel like kind of, you know, salvaging this in terms of setting themselves up for the future by selling in a functional way the way they did here. Similar to what you said, John, about what they did in 23. I think also I think of always the blues in whatever year that was like 2016 or 17

when they sold like Stas and E and a couple other guys at the deadline when they were kind of hovering around the playoff bubble and set themselves up for whatever the ultimate Stanley Cup champion wound up being a couple years later. There's a lot of other work to be done for the capitals to replicate that, but I think this is an important step

as opposed to plowing ahead and kind of burying your head in the sand just out of loyalty, right? And so it's certainly a, tough look in terms of watching those scrums and the Wilson one you talked about, Sean. And just it's brutal to watch. And I totally get why everyone involved would be upset right now while stuff is still raw. But from an organizational perspective, I think this was a no-brainer. And it's going to open up some spots as well to hopefully get some NHL reps for Cole Hudson-Aliop Protis down the stretch. And then they're going to enter the offseason with $38 million in cap space, two first round picks. they're going to have Connor McMichael as a 25-year-old

RFA needing a new deal and they can either pay him or use that as a trade chip and I feel like for all these discussions we have if for whatever reason the stars don't want to pay Jason Robertson or Carol Murchenko goes to the blue jackets and says I'm not extending on July 1st. Whatever big name, impactful, prime age forward you

want to list, the capital should be near the top of the list of teams that has the assets and the motivation to essentially add that guy as a leader of whatever the next era of capitals hockey after Alex Obedchkin's going to be. And so I think that's a nice spot for them to be in. And I think they set themselves up way better for it by taking this approach as opposed to the alternative. Yeah, the way that I would sort of summarize it is that although they might be like technically in like the mushy middle of the standings right now,

I feel like the chances of them becoming a contender as early as next year is way higher than some of their peers that are also in the mushy middle. and it's because they are, they're like seeing things clearly. It seems like very clear-minded what they're doing. You know, I don't know if objective is the right way to put it, because anyone who works for an organization is certainly not fully objective, but they're trying to, like I said, two tracks, like the current one where they're not giving up on the season, like it's not like they have this huge sell-off and it's like they're rebuilding, but then they're clearly trying to set themselves up for success in the future.

Well, and I think the other side of this trade, the John Carlson Woll, is fascinating for us to unpack as well because I don't know if you guys agree, but for me it was the most surprising deal of the week, especially one that actually happened because of the timing of it, where it gets reported like past midnight eastern time. I was already in bed even though I'm three hours behind on the West Coast just because I was preparing to get up super early for deadline day. And so I'm like, I'm going to check my phone again just to see if anything happened.

And all of a sudden I'm in bed scrolling my phone for like three hours. just kind of trying to absorb everything and process it in real time. And the fact that it seemed like John Carlson was going to be a capital's lifer as well. I think that speaks to what we said about this being difficult for everyone involved, right? Where he is 36 years old and he was an impending UFA and the caps are unlikely to make the playoffs this year. But we had no real reason to believe that the outcome here wasn't going to be him taking a pay cut on the $8 million he's making right now and staying for another couple years and ending his career playing for just one team. And instead they decide to make this calculated decision.

They trade him to Anaheim. And Anaheim's a very logical fit because we've been talking a lot about their clear organizational need on the right side of the blue line, since Lecombe and Minchikov and Zellweg are all lefties for them moving forward. Undoubtedly, an obvious area of need and an immediate upgrade for Anaheim. I'm not sure how you feel about this, John. If there's one thing I don't like about it, it's that it doesn't necessarily solve the current predicament they're in beyond this year. We'll see if Carlson likes it there. And a lot of these guys that have come over the past year or two are enjoying their time there by all accounts.

And so he might just wind up taking whatever deal he would have taken with Washington this summer and staying there and closing out his career with Ducks. And so maybe that'll help in the short term. But moving forward, the righties on this roster coming out of the deadline are a 36-year-old John Carlson, who's a UFA, a 36-year-old Ratko Gutus, who's a UFA, a 32-year-year old Jacob Trubo, who's a UFA, Drew Hellison, who might honestly be one of the worst NHL regulars in the league this season, and then Ian Moore, who's fun, but they've been using on the wing. And so they use some valuable assets. It's Colorado's first this year, so it's probably going to be a very low first. It's not like a premium pick by any means, but I don't know.

I would have ideally like to see them take a bit of a longer-term view in terms of consolidating all of these picks and all. other ones they have, and finding a longer-term solution that fits more the age timeline of this core, even if it had to be waiting until the summer to accomplish that. But they clearly are viewing the Pacific as being wide open. They might finish first in the Pacific by the end of the season. And so I think they wanted to reward this group, get some playoff reps, address an obvious need on their roster, and this is what they did. And so I can't fault them for it because we're lamenting how boring this deadline was,

and this was one of the more fun deals we got. So I do all things considered like it quite a bit. It is crazy for you to say they might finish first in the Pacific when you've got Vegas and Edmonton in there. Yeah, like I think that they, it would have made more sense if, you know, there was some massive blockbuster around Adam Fox or if Dougie Hamilton moved like where they can accomplish two things, bring in a marquee player this season, but then also have them beyond this season, especially when you're sending out a first rounder.

And that's not to say that Carlson isn't worthy of netting a first rounder, but I guess it just becomes, okay, so in the summer, does he just walk because he's a UFA? Or do you sign him back up and then you're stuck with a bunch of old dudes on the right side? So it is a bit tricky in that sense, but I kind of feel given the Ducks playoff drought and sort of all the good vibes there, I'm willing to kind of give them a pass here in terms of not being too upset about it. but they still have an issue there on the right side moving forward.

And, you know, to their credit, I guess, for lack of a better way to put it, they do have Mintikov who they can also dangle as a possible chip. I don't know if I would trade him, but clearly there's something going on there between him and the organization where there's going to be some sort of divorce at some point. So, you know, Mintikov and I don't know, a prospect or a first rounder, can they turn that into something special, a top four right-handed D in the summer, potentially. Sean, you and I are big fans of Instat and using it to grind tape.

I think we need to get Pat Verbeak a subscription so that he can access tape after the 2018 season because he seemingly has been gravitating on mid-2010's success and really prioritizing that in his acquisitions. Great line is I think it's an incredible right side of the blue. If I told you that was the right side of the blue line, I told you the year was 2018, 2019, you would be absolutely, you would absolutely be thrilled. And it's funny, you brought up, you brought up Mintikov, John, because, like, I'm a big fan of, like, I obviously, it's, I, this is one where the organization and I have a disconnect on it because you see this potential divorce there and everything like that. And every time, and for me, he's someone that I love as part of a long-term plan.

So it's, it's an interesting spot for the ducks where you go on this because it's, They might win the specific division. And I know that it's for all the time we talk about this central division unfairness or gauntlet or whatever terminology we want to use. I give credit to the ducks here in Pat for Beak for identifying that, well, you're probably not a top, you're probably not a top three contender in the West based off just pure Ross. if we just line them all up. But you're going to put yourself in a spot where if you do go and win the Pacific here and then you win two rounds, you're going to get that moment for your young team. And obviously, you're going to get that moment.

You have a good chance to put your young team in that spot where you're going to get the winner of the Dallas, Colorado, Minnesota at Gauntlet. And you're going to get that spot. And like, you have a really nice opportunity here to get your team that far that because the playoff form it actually benefits you. And I know everyone likes to pretend, right? Like, it's one of those funny things, John, right? Like, every year we go into the season and everyone's like, oh, we're going to try to win the, I think some teams have gotten better about being honest.

Like, and maybe I'm being become jaded because I'm used to Steve Eisenman pressers where he's now longer, like, or he just, it's like, I didn't think we were going to win this year. So we didn't make a deal with a deadline. Like, that's the past couple years he's done that. But I do wonder if this is when you talk about actual goals for teams. If the ducks all of a sudden, obviously, maybe you make some mistakes and you win 16 games and well, that's great. But you can now circle like, you know what? I got this young team.

I can set a realistic goal of we can try to make it out of the Pacific. And then our learning moment can be the battle right there. Like our learning moment can be the head to head with Colorado. And I'm just saying Colorado right now because they're obviously the top of mine top seed. But like, I don't mind this at all for the ducks. And you talk about how something like that. that can potentially push a young group forward. I really like that.

And I don't know how long that right side of the D sticks around. And I don't know the long, but I think it's right now it's meshing well. Well, obviously we talk in July to see how much you spend money there and how smartly you handle it. But I like this. Well, let's take it one step at a time.

Let's not start counting the playoff wins and all the way up to 16, although I like the ambition. I mean, I'm just being for seeing. here of just like it reminds me of so it's funny because obviously the kings have not made it past the first round but i remember a couple years back i was i was in l.a and i'm sitting down with uh luke i was sitting down with luke robatai in l.a about something and they were talking about the window for the team and someone was like oh and there and there was the justification for why they didn't go

deeper in the deadline that year and i don't remember what a year was and and he and he said he was telling me the story is like, oh, we were talking to one, one of our scouts, and they're like, oh, well, we could, we could go further and we could try to, and it's like, oh, we're trying to do everything for now. And if we make the mistake and win 16 games and win the Stanley Cup, I'm okay with that. So that's where that line in my head comes from, where I'm not counting the ducks wins, but it's the, it's the spot of there's what goal and expectation is that you can reach. And then if you go above and beyond, it's the whole dumb poster they put up in school, shoot for the moon and everything like that, right?

Like now, was Luke, was Luke suggesting 16 playoff wins in one postseason or the entirety of his tenure there combined? Yeah. Yeah. It's, I, it's, I'm sorry, I had to. Although I will say, I don't know if we're going to have time for it. I might have a circle back to it on Sunday's show, but in my notes, I did have Ken Hall and kind of low-key cooked during this year's deadline.

So maybe we'll touch on the Kings later. but I do think if the first step is finishing first in the Pacific and setting yourself up for success in the postseason, the ducks are very live. They're one point behind Vegas. They have one game in hand. They're scheduled the rest of the way if you look at it. 21 games left.

15 of them are against teams who are out of the playoffs, including a bunch against the flames and Canucks and Blues and Preds and all these teams that's sold at the deadline. And getting home ice is going to be very valuable for them. Now, if they finish first, their most likely round one matchup is going to be against Utah, and I think that's actually a pretty bad stylistic fit for them. But just on paper, they're 21, 9, and 1 at home this year compared to 13, 5, and 2 on the road, which I think is in line with their expectations for a young team like this,

being better in front of their home crowd and the comfort there. And so they've been the fifth best home team this season. And getting a series where you're playing 4 out of the 7 at home and starting there, I think, is a massive feather in their cap if they are going to accomplish something this year. Now, a couple more notes on Carlson before we move on. All jokes aside about that 2018 dig, I don't think he's the guy he was during that five-year stretch around 2018 when he finished fifth, fourth, second, 12th, and 10th in Norris voting. But he's still very productive and a clear upgrade for what they need even in this phase of

his career. And I'm very intrigued by the idea of a top pair with him and Jackson-Locombe. Because at this stage of his career, you know, Carlson's biggest, weakness is his skating. And you could see that in a lot of the micro stats, the Cory Schneider tracks, where, like, he doesn't really carry the puck out of the zone anymore. He gets burnt off the rush and he can't, you know, deny entries. And when guys enter the zone against them, they create a lot of chances. Well, Jackson Lacombe is one of the best defenders in the game in terms of activity and mobility. And I think he's going to be able to cover for a lot of that on both sides of the puck.

And then I do think Carlson, something he is good at this stage of his career is sort of stationary defending because he's very big and sturdy and has a great stick and he can turn pucks over if you get close to him and that makes him useful in the penalty kill and because of a lack of other options because they have so many young defenders the ducks have been using Jackson Lacombe there for over two minutes a game and getting absolutely blasted in his short-handed minutes and so I like the idea of using Carlson there a little bit and freeing up Lecombe to just have more energy 5-1-5 and so I think it's going to be nice. The other note that I had is You know, Carlson's not scoring as many goals as he used to in his prime, although I think he has 10 this year.

Like the shot isn't as big of a threat, but he's so good at passing the puck-in zone, especially up high, like finding guys down low, getting into high-nanger areas. And if you watch this duck team play, guys like Beckett Seneca and Cutter Goce, but even Chris Kreider are so good at getting lost in coverage and like kind of going around the net, popping open on the back post. And I feel like that connection of Carlson finding those guys is going to be really fun to watch. So I am very excited about the fit and seeing what it looks like. All right, Sean, I'll let you go again. Do you want to talk about the Shenz? What's the next on your list? Because I feel like I've given you guys your first choices already,

but my first two picks were the Central Division and this trade, and so I feel like we're almost satisfying my own individual list. So I'll let you pick our next one. We want to go into the Shen that is now two deadlines away from setting the record for teams played. teams played for in league history or let's let's let's go with let's let's let's let's let's let's let's do the blues now because like I think it's yeah let's do blues let's let's go to st. Louis land and and after this we're going to go check all everyone's phones to make sure that

no one has uh we're going to go check phone picture no one has leaked uh little leaked the contents of this call of the outside world well it certainly would have been a much more fun deadline if they had traded robert thomas who would have been the best player moved uh Jordan kairu even Jordan Bennington for drama and entertainment value, Colin Pareko, who obviously, as the joke you're making, wound up staying, and whose fault it is is still unknown. I think we're going to need a forensic investigation to figure out who leak that news. Listen, I think trading Pareko, as reported,

it would have been Rudy Mercka, who was ninth overall in Buffalo's first, would have been huge for them because there would have been two more premium assets to add to everything they added at the deadline, and would have gotten them off of $6.5 million for a guy in his entering his mid-30s who already has back issues and is massive. But even removing all that, they add two firsts. Their own first, so they're going to have three-first, is going to be a top five pick. Most likely they add two more thirds and a fourth if you include the Nick Bugstad trade before the Olympic roster freeze and clear up a ton of Caps face moving forward largely off of guys who were in their mid-30s.

would have been declining players to begin with. And so I know the Blues kind of are taking a PR hit here because of how all this unfolded with all the no move clauses. And maybe we can talk about no trade clauses as a whole because I feel like they sort of defined this year's deadline with the increased prevalence of them. And they were on the forefront of it. But I still feel like they wound up coming out of this in pretty good shape and have a lot of fun options ahead at this year's draft and this offseason in general.

Yeah, I would say, and this is doubling back on some of your points. But the fact that Doug Armstrong got the type of packages he got for two guys who are in their mid-30s, both pretty imperfect players, if we're being honest, Braden, Shen, and Justin Falk, like, bring something, but they're past their prime, they've got some deficiencies,

no retention on either guy. It seemed like kind of like common sense prevailed. Like Armstrong could have kept them and been like, okay, this is a, you know, an off-season thing, but at least he got some of it. of his business done around the deadline. And then obviously we'll see what happens in the summer as far as, you know, Cairo, Thomas, Pareco. I mean, I have it on pretty good authority that Pareko was originally about 50-50 on going to Buffalo. But as time went on and he was sort of given

the leash to make a decision over what turned out to be about 24 hours, he just realized he didn't want to leave St. Louis. He's a pretty, you know, cerebral guy. And, I'm a, I just think that sort of the idea of like his legacy in St. Louis was important to him. And I think that it didn't really matter that it was Buffalo from what I gather. Like this is a guy who's from Fort McMurray in Alberta. He went to school in Alaska, like the whole sort of northern factor. He's a big city guy. He's a yeah, big city of town.

Apparently Tage Thompson tried to sell him on going to Buffalo. Josh Allen was involved. in some way. So like the Sabres put on the full court press, but ultimately Parakeo is just like, listen, I kind of want to at least for now stay in St. Louis and finish what I started. I guess, you know, who knows what will happen this offseason and beyond. But yeah, the whole no trade clause aspect of the last few days has been a little strange to me in a sense that like these guys leave money on the table to get those in their contract. So you think that there would be fewer leaks relating to the decision for them to waive or not waive to a new destination.

And, I mean, to me, it wouldn't make sense for an agent or a player to leak that. So, I mean, it's going to be from the team perspective. And if I'm the NHL Players Association, I'm not happy that, what was it, Weeger, Myers, Perako. I feel like there's someone else I'm missing. they were very public situations where it's like, is this guy going to wave? Is he not going to wave? And it's,

it puts the player in kind of an awkward situation. So I don't remember a deadline where it's been like so public in those instances. I like I like the way you describe Breko there. And that was a nice piece of journalism as well there. I feel like some of those tidbits on the Folcore Press, the Sabres did trying to convince him in the meantime. Well, we were all waiting. I haven't seen that yet necessarily.

So that was a nice little bit of insight for the PDOC. John, would you describe me as as cerebral to other people? And like a sea oriented because I like the way you described preacle like that. I've never heard him discussed as such. Yeah, I don't know. Like this is just what I've heard secondhand that he's like, well, one, I heard he's like the nicest guy ever. And two, that he's just like really thoughtful and just likes to, you know, he'll like go get a coffee and it'll take him five minutes to decide what to get because he's just like, oh, there's so many. great options. He's that kind of guy.

I wish he was a little more cerebral when he got the puck on a stick in the offensive zone. Not as much thought being put into that. Too much stuff. I have a lot of time for Rico because I remember they used to do. It's a sad for me to bring this up because I miss when the prospect tournament

in Traverse City was eight teams and it was every and I remember watching however long ago now he was in, I met him the first time in that prospect tournament up in Traverse City and he's playing and he's playing and he's fresh out of, signed out of playing in Alaska and he's playing in that tournament. And he is a monster and just destroying other prospects in this tournament. And I remember I go and I sat down with him

and talked with him. And he started to ask, like, you talk, it's funny, you bring up the coffee story, John, because we did not cross notes on this before. But he started asking me of where I got the best coffee in Traverse City that weekend. And we have had like conversations about things like that every time like St. Louis, obviously when I was in Dallas, we would see St. Louis all the time. And so, well, I never recovered the blues on a beat basis. He was a player I had to know a little bit. But so, like, when the blues have come through Detroit, we've always caught up. But you're right. He is one of the, like, he thinks about things a lot of ways. And like, if you were to tell me a player was to take a full 24 hours to think about it, I truly believe Pareko is the guy, the type of

player who might have thought at 6 p.m., just to pick random times, at 6 p.m., just to pick random times, at 6 PM had thought, okay, I'm going to go to Buffalo and at 630 had gone through a pros and cons list and decided, you know what, I'm going to stick here. Like, it's, it really fits his personality. And so it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, also, also say, on the whole, like, Doug Armstrong comes out and says, we check people's phones and emails and texts for that. Okay, this is the same organization that we, in 2023, we had a similar thing happened. So either you're not searching. the texts well enough or maybe you're not sure like I do you think do you think Doug armstrong knows about

incognito mode or or or did you know that phones nowadays do something you can contact using other things other than email and text and phone calls like there's I believe this entire conversation here that we set up was set up through a Twitter direct message so I mean did they did they check the Twitter DMs too or the X DMs or I'm exclusively using burners for all my... To me, she's just full burner. Yes, all my hockey related business. While we're on that note,

like, you know, part of why I think stuff was slow and it's a variety of reasons, right? How close the standings are with like very few teams obviously out of it or very few teams feeling very good about their outlook this postseason. All the adjustments to the CBA and teams kind of try to figure it out. I did like the note and we were joking about this. Instead, DMs about,

Pierre LeBrona going on the TSN broadcast and talking about how teams felt they weren't prepared for this deadline with the new retention requirements and next year is going to be different now that they have a better feel for. And it's like, we were talking about that on this show back in the summer all the way through and then in December like talking about, I wonder if teams are going to do this and try to, you know, engage in a double retention process and start it now before this hypothetical second deadline. And no one did so. And so it certainly does. didn't come out of nowhere. The other one was all the trade protection, right? And SportsNet had it on their broadcast, like something like 37% of contracts or whatever, it carries some form of trade

protection at this point. And it's nearly double from where it was a decade ago. This deadline, I think, will be remembered as the one where it kind of jumped the shark because of all that reporting and how it all unfolded and all the time in between trying to figure out whether guys that we already assumed were dealt were actually going to allow those deals to have. And so, happen and one of them got nixed in very public fashion. You know, I'd hope that with a cap going up, teams are going to be more thoughtful about giving out protections and using some extra salary to maintain that flexibility. But the cat just might get out of the bag in terms of if so many guys have it now, everyone's

going to want it moving forward and that's going to be the price of doing business. Do you have any other notes on that, John, in terms of either the trade protections and the way they've been handed out, how it impacted this draft, or even, you know, an inside baseball, like journalistic process of how this stuff has been reported because all this information is relayed and then it's very public all of a sudden and then we're waiting for behind the scenes information to actually get acknowledged in terms of whether it's going to happen and there's just this weird limbo period and it feels like it's not probably the right way to go about the business I know everyone's going to want to as soon as they get this information share it because that's

the job of an insider but I do wish there was more clarity and just finality to it I guess. It felt like this year more than ever, we got a lot of, this guy's been traded or even this guy's been traded to a team. And then we wait like 45 minutes to actually find out what the return was. And it feels like there's got to be a better way to relay trade information than that. Yeah, I don't know if it's just this is the sort of inflection point of, you know, insiders getting so competitive or being so, um, willing to report every little bit of news that it kind of caught up to the industry in a sense that the whole Baraco thing dragged on for a really long time. And, you know, it's fascinating too because when it first gets reported, you go, oh, this is a guy on a bad team who's going to be traded to a good team.

Sure, there's the whole like Buffalo stink or whatever you want to call it, which I don't think is totally fair. Given, you know, I've spent some time there. I don't live too far away. but, you know, they're the hottest team in the NHL. They're, you know, Dimitri and I talked about this recently. Like, they're one of those teams where, if they make the playoffs, they can make some real noise in the Eastern Conference. So I think most people, including myself, you know, you go,

well, he's probably, this is probably a formality at this point. Like, he's going to accept. And we did see Weeger do that when news of his situation leaked where, okay, he has a decision to make here, and then he ultimately waived to Utah. But yeah, it seemed a little messy, I will say. That will be the word I use in terms of the information I was out there around the deadline this time. And to circle back on the double retention thing, Greg Wyshinsky, our buddy at ESPN there,

had a good piece run before the deadline where he talked to a general manager who was sort of theorizing that there's some teams in the NHL that might not have realized the timing aspect of the double retention. rule where you know you can retain you know 75 days before um the deadline you can do that double retention then but once it passes that then you can only retain once and the the GM was quoted saying there will be two to three trades that won't happen because double retention isn't an option but what it's actually going to do is even the playing field for the playoffs in a way it hasn't been in recent in years. Putting that playoff thing aside, the fact that the GM was like predicting two to three trades would be nixed essentially, or not nicks, but sort of wouldn't make it to the finish line because teams hadn't prepared for double retention. I think that's, that's poor line malpractice

for some of these organizations. Like, you have big front offices, you know, whether it's an analytics person or just like, I don't know, your salary cap whiz. Like those people need to be totally on this. Obviously the GM does too. It's his job. to know what's in the CBA and what are the important dates. And so if there's a team out there that a week ago went, oh, wait, we can't do double retention, that that deadline's already passed. I mean, if that's true,

that's a huge indictment on their process. I feel like if I was a GM, I would probably just keep that information to myself and just say, oh, we tried to do stuff and couldn't do it. Because I feel like using that as an excuse for why you didn't do something does not make you look better. I have two theories that I'd love to throw out to both of you on things that John talked about.

The first one is on the insiderness and how things have gone on this. And I'm not pushing, so I want to be very clear. I'm not anti-X player jumping into the media world. We've got so much now of former players getting platforms via podcasts. And even now we have the players, some players, active players even getting into it like a Chuck brother is doing. their thing and everything like that. But I think for the first time we've got, not first time, but it's been happening over the past couple of years. And I feel like we kind of hit a little bit more of a boiling point of these players, these ex-players who only three, four years,

removed from playing, obviously have friends in the league. So they do get information, right? Like, they do get information. And for a while, it was just, they were kind of more or less being ignored by the other insiders, right? Like, it would be like, it's like, oh, like, like a, like there was while where Kevin Weeks had a bunch of scoops, right? Like, it's like, oh, well, Kevin Weeks has had a bunch of scoops and, and then, and for a more or less they were being ignored by a lot of the insiders. And it seemed like, I don't know whether it's the, the, how the clout has changed or how people view how things are, but it feels to me like a lot of the quote unquote

traditional insiders felt like they had to kind of meet where some of those ex players have been going in this. And this is a theory. I don't have, this is not a scientific, proven thing at all. This is just a Sean Shapiro theory of all of a sudden when your ground that you've had before is now being infringed upon by a guy who has a contact because, hey, he played in the league. And now all, and, and, and on top of that, we have this other meshed point of, you get points, you get players who have, you players with former players of the platform who, I don't think the, audience, obviously not the audience of this show. I think the audience of this show is very intelligent, but I think there's, there's audiences that hear ideas and musings and thoughts that

they think are reported. And I think insiders kind of have kind of said like, well, we have to kind of bring, kind of come to that less, that kind of more of that common denominator of meeting where that is. Like that, that's a theory I have on this of how this is all changed, where I don't think any of the, the intentionally said, this is how we're going to change how we work. I think they've all kind of mutated a little bit because of that. And I'm curious to your guys' thoughts on that. And then I have another point to after that one. But I was curious, I want to throw that to both of you first. I mean, undoubtedly, like, you want to keep up with what's going on around you. And you're going to be judge as an insider based on presenting new information

in a timely manner. And so there's going to be a rush to be the first one to relay that or add some sort of an previously untold nugget to it. My issue is the incomplete nature of the reporting, where you're not really telling the full story if you're just saying, this guy's been traded and then just leaving it at that, and then waiting an extra hour, and then it might not even be true,

and you ultimately just kind of move on. And that's sort of the frustrating part of this. For us as people who are on the outside, not even with a stake in it, let alone for a player who was traded or, you know, someone within the organization, that's like finding all this stuff out. I think it's messy, but I think that theory is pretty accurate in terms of why we've

sort of steered in that direction in general in the landscape. And I think it's also led to like the other attachment of so much of this now has, and I was texting with my buddy Prashant about it, Prashant Byer about this earlier today. So much of it has also become, I know, John, you and I, if you look at things a lot with the world the same way. There's been a lot of things where it's pretty clearly coded that this is a, hey, shoot this message out into the world for me. There's been way more and more of that. And I'm not sure if that's people are not making.

I don't know if it's, and this is a journalistic question. I don't know because I'm not going to go reverse engineer every scoop. But I see a tweet and I sometimes kind of figure out in our job, you knowing what you and I know about other things in the world, we can kind of reverse engineer where things come from. it seems like a lot of times either a the second call doesn't come where it's like you get something and people will be like oh i'm just going to shoot this off right away there's not the there's not the second level of reporting done to even see if that's a feasibility and then the other one and then the other part of it is it just and or there's just a more of a willingness of people i think there's been a little this kind of put this out into the public culture of well i'm going to put this out right

away because if I don't be the one, if I'm not the one that puts this out, because I got this from someone who team, they're going to give it to somebody else. And like that, that seems to me to be another part of this whole problem here, John. Yeah, I think it's like a slipping of standards ultimately. And like, I like that you brought up the sort of former player aspect of it where a former player enters a media environment. And they're just sort of like spouting off and they're just throwing this out there and that out there under like the disguise, or not disguise, under the like shield of, I'm just a former player that's shooting the breeze, right? And they just, they just sort of talk and, hey, I know about what's going on this organization, that organization.

And the next thing you know, they've gained traction as someone who knows what they're talking about. And then, you know, maybe a guy who comes from a more traditional journalistic background starts to shade just a little in their direction to keep up. And next thing, you know, you have this deadline where it seemed way more, I'll say, rumor-based than reporting-based. A lot of, like, non-update updates, a lot of half, you know, reporting. And it's fine if it's like, hey, this player got traded to this team and that's a tweet by itself. And then, you know, you quote, tweet that with, like, for a third or for a second, like you're trying to get information out there before your competitors.

But, you know, some of it seemed kind of like it was missing key ingredients or it was missing an actual, like, way to move the story forward versus just like confirming what your competitor did or just throwing something out there that is so vague and so ambiguous that it could that literally like us three could just throw together and it would be believable um and people would you know retweet it and it would get crazy engagement and and all that so you know i'm not in their shoes these insiders i know they get not not like paid literally for the scoops but like like not per scoop but like They are expected to be in the know. And if they're having maybe a dry spell of some kind,

maybe they start sort of like, you know, going in the wrong direction in terms of like what meets their threshold of news. All right. I've got, we're talking about the blues. And we mentioned preco there and that kind of kickstarted that conversation. I want to circle back to it because the,

the sabres were obviously the team. We tried to get preaco and didn't. And then they pivoted and got Logan Stanley and Luke Shen to fill their size on the back end quota at the deadline. They got Sam Carrick as well and I actually like that one quite a bit because he's essentially going to replace Josh Dunn on the fourth line and he was probably their worst skater. And so it's a nice upgrade for the role he's going to play. But I'm going to try and people listening aren't going to be surprised that I've got a lot of Sabres thoughts. I'm going to try really hard not to let the nagging concern in my mind that I have as someone who's watched a lot of Logan Stanley and Lucien over the power. couple years, kill the otherwise impeccable vibes the sabres have had and the excitement that I've had watching them. Because on the one hand, Stanley and Shen have proven they're just completely unplayable together. And honestly, 36-year-old Luke Shen at this point is just individually outright unplayable, I think, on his own. And I think he's more of a keeping building the vibes

going for a team that's going to, you know, John, I'm curious here to dig on this, because the Sabres are going to make the playoffs. And they're probably going to, if they keep up, have home ice in round one. And that's going to be such a spectacle and circus. And I'm very excited about it. But I think actually having some veterans who have been there done that and are just good in the room actually is going to be helpful for them in terms of navigating that a little bit and kind of keeping stuff on the rails. And so if Luke Shen is essentially going to be a press box guy who's just going to be around the team, I think it's totally fine.

The Logan Stanley one is a bit concerning to me because he's shooting 12% this year. And so I think people feel like he's breaking out now and realizing his potential when in reality, if you watch him play or look at any of his underlying numbers, it's just kind of glossing over all the same visible flaws in his game that have been there. And he is who he is at this point of his NHL career. I think the exposure for the Sabres, like, because the return and it was a pretty sizable package they sent to the Jets, was ridiculed. and I certainly wouldn't have done this trade,

and I would have liked to see them use those assets in a more meaningful way. The exposure in terms of how impactful it's really going to be to their playoff roster probably doesn't warrant that much panic, and that's the perspective I'm trying to keep here because you look at the time on ice for their defensemen since December 9th

when they kind of turn around their season and start a winning games. Rosamislavie in 24-45, Vatia Samuelson 24-10, Bowen Byrham in 23 and a half minutes Owen Power 22 and a half minutes and then you get to Michael Kessel rating at 12 and a half and Zach Metzad under 10 minutes a game and so if you're just replacing Metsas 10 minutes

essentially with Logan Stanley and saying he's going to play 10 to 12 minutes on a third pair it's not ideal but I'm also probably not as worried about it as I would just based on when I saw the trade and I was like oh my God why do they do this? I don't know do you feel that same way or do you feel like that's just kind of coping and it was as bad of a trade as it looks on paper.

I also find it's hard to look at this trade and not think about what could have been with Pareco. And it's like Shen and Stanley, if they're in the lineup, it does not add up to the Pareco value that you're going to get the impact. Well, both guys aren't going to be in the lineup. No, but okay, one of them in the lineup

certainly doesn't add up. Yeah, I find Shen is like, like you know how we like to talk about gravitational pull in terms of you know McDavid and McKinnon where like you get double team and stuff like I feel like Shen is the complete opposite where he's a gravitational pull like off the rush like teams will really target him in in a negative way like his you know pivoting from backwards to forward skating is rough and he's just sort of like very you know blocky out there so I think it would be real concerning if they end up going into a

playoff series and he's on their third pair even if he's getting sheltered and not getting a ton of minutes because i mean we saw it with the end of his jet's tenure where in the playoffs whether it's kind of giveaways or getting beat off the rush like it was very obvious that he has no place in you know the high tempo high intensity environment that is a playoff series so that's concerning stanley you know some issues in terms of off you know defensive zone coverage but he does have obviously the physicality toughness element and as you mentioned some off offensive pop, even though he is certainly killing the percentages right now. So it would be, I suppose a way to put it would be like, if they didn't have such a strong

top two pairs, this would be one of those things where you go, oh, they really did not do enough and it's going to come back to haunt them. But I feel like with how fast they play up front and how in your face they are as an entire team, I think it can gloss over a lot of what the third pair does and they can hopefully just sneak them out there. and survive those minutes and maybe Metsza like surprises us and continues to grow down the stretch here like he's been kind of an underrated

little contributor there for the sabres but no it was yeah especially with through the prism of they could have gotten Pareco it was certainly a disappointing ending or outcome for the sabers even though they do get technically you know some depth on the back end

well I got a couple notes on that because I think I've been very critical of Logan Stanley's game over the years. I think what really got him into trouble in Oanepeg is he just can't handle the puck in his own for the most part. And so what he wound up resort into is kind of punting the puck either up the wall or just kind of trying to get it into space and off his stick because he couldn't complete a day to day pass. And the jets are so slow up front, especially this year that a lot of those would just go to the other team because they don't have the forwards who could go and win a battle and retrieve that puck in time. That's not going to be an issue for the Sabres team because

they have so many dogs up front who excel at that exact part of the game. And so maybe there will be a bit of a work hour on there. And, you know, Metsa has been interesting because he certainly flashed, especially lately, with some puck skill. If Logan Stanley is just replacing his minutes, though, it might actually work out in terms of like proactively avoiding the regression because I was looking at this. And I think why Metsa looks so good for the most part is that he's been on the ice for 150 five-on-five shots against.

And his goalies have stopped 148 of them. And so he's only been on the ice for two goals against so far the season and all the minutes he's played. And so defensemen typically are our perception of them works a certain way when that's the case as opposed to if you're digging the puck out of your own net and a lot of the blame's going towards them. So I think that would have happened at some point anyways. And so if Logan Stanley's filling that spot and playing 10 to 12 minutes, it's not

the end of the world. The package that I said, which was like second or fourth, Jacob Bryson, just to make the number work on the back end. And then Isaac, Isaac Roseanne is interesting to me because I've seen a lot of hype about Roseanne and he's a former 14th overall pick. He's over a point of game of the HL this year. I think that's the exact type of player team like the Jets should be taking a chance on because their situation, they need more of that skill. And if it works out great, if not, no skin off their back, it was worth a worthwhile gamble. I don't think he would have made it on the Sabres team because of the logjam of other forwards that have worked their way up above

them on their organizational depth chart. And I'm also in the limited viewings of had of him. I'm just not sure he's good enough to warrant getting the types of offensive minutes he needs to be successful with his skill set. And so he's stuck in this gray area, I think, on the Sabres as like a 4A type of player might have more room to grow on the Jets. And it's worthwhile. And ultimately, the reason why I liked it for the Jets above all else was I was so worried, about Kevin Shevoldeoff, viewing this Logan Stanley offensive breakout as a reason to sign him long term this summer as a UFA. And so just kind of pulling the shoot on that and initiating the divorce and being like, we're moving on. I think is a win regardless of what they got back.

And so obviously I like it from the Jets perspective. Let's end with this, Sean. Let's talk a little Justin Falk and the Red Wings because one of the other notes I had on my list was it feels like a lot of these players that we've talked about. was a consolidation of talent in the West. And a lot of the teams in the East, for the most part, either stood Pat or kind of made moves on the margins with like pure depth guys. And that includes the hurricanes who only added Nick Deloree. The Habs didn't do anything,

although it sounds like Ken Hughes was trying to do something. And the last minute, it fell through and they're going to revisit it in the summer. The penguins were surprisingly quiet, only acquiring Elmer Soder Blom. The lightning did not upgrade. that all every brook's rent spot they just added corey perry and are going to use their caps base this summer and free agency or via trade later in the offseason so east did not really get much better and one of the bigger moves we saw was near the end with justin falk going from st louis to detroit and then adding a right shot defenseman like we expected especially after tyler meyers decided

not to go there so i'm going to let you cook a little bit on on falk and the red wings and the way this deadline played out for them yeah i mean i think first the first the first thing is we have to go back at year, right? Because there was the the wing's last deadline, right? It was the incredibly underwhelming Craig Smith Peter Morazic deadline a year ago,

right? Which I think accounted for three starts and two points. So it was what they went and got was at the last deadline. And then it led to the Dylan Larkin speaking to us media wise at the end of the season about how

I thought we did enough to earn support at the deadline and then we got nothing out of it. And, and then, and then Steve Iserman basically saying, and I'm paraphrasing here, but Steve Iserman basically saying, well, some other teams didn't make moves and their best players delivered, right? And basically kind of Larkin and Iserman having their public airing of grievances as much as those two can, right? So this was a Detroit team where it was kind of funny because I wrote about the night before the deadline, they went and get, they go and bring David Perron back, right? And the David Perron move

felt very, as the Perron move is one that, I think from a pure on-ice hockey asset perspective, not really a big move doesn't move the needle. But this organization in the last 18 months, the amount of times I've heard that they've missed David Perron in the locker room has been way too many. And so that felt like a, that one felt a, that one felt a, the, That one, that one, and it was a really low risk, whatever. Like that ad, but like, okay, this is not a bad supporting ad. You make that piece and you add that. But then we start going through today, right?

And you start getting closer and closer to the deadline. And I remember talking to some people where we're at morning skate today. We're at morning skate today. And you're looking at things. And it just becomes, wait, are they only bringing back David Perron? Because, like, it started to feel more and more like that. And so it was a team that if they had not, if they had not made the move, we could have seen some real kind of blowback, right?

Just to be, just to be perfectly blunt, because this is a group and a team that Larkin has spoken since both on the record and not off the record, but a little bit more informally about how this team has, he felt this team has done it, done its spot to earn more help. And even him, like, he's a guy who's coming. from who he was on the last wings team to make the playoffs all the way back in 2017. And so it was this was a big, this was big for him to, for them to have to make this move. And so they really needed another top 4D. Let's just call it what it is, right?

Like there's, I know there's a lot of Red Wings fans. There's people who are going to listen. And it's, it's kind of funny. The whole axel sanding pelica hype and season and everything has been fascinating for me to watch because there was all of this kind of, if I had told you a year ago, people would have told you that Sandine Pelika is the next Nick Liddstrom. And it was just like that was the belief about this kid.

And I think he's going to be a good, he's going to be a good player. And I think he's got some potential. But both of you are smart hockey minds. If the Red Wings go into a playoff series, and Axin Sandine Pelica is on their second pairing, they're getting cooked. Like we just, you just got to call it right now with where that kid, with where they are and their development, where that group is, it's rough.

And they needed, that's why they were in on Myers first. And then I think Falk is actually a better fit than Myers would have been for them actually. So that's, I think it worked out for the better. They needed to make sure that it wasn't just going to be when they got to the playoff series. It wasn't just going to be the most cider pair playing 37 minutes and then finding 23 minutes for everyone else to. split and do it because that's the way they were eventually they were going to go into that game one but that was eventually be the spot they were going to have to break glass and so it's well the coaching staff already telegraphed that recently know like i was watching that game they played

recently in carolina and they went into that game and their second pair as it's been recently was ben chariot with jacoburner and that's obviously not going to get it done in a matchup like that and so um i don't even think they were going to go into the playoffs under the guys that it was going to be different similar to what we're talking about about with Niels Lundquist and Thomas Harley where it's like that's great and then I know how this plays out and we've seen it in previous post seasons and you can change your coach but all the coaches are going to view it the same way the first time he blows the assignment in front of his debt or winds up on the ice for a goal against it's going to be a quote unquote safer option and so I think you need to

have a better fallback than that so um you know folks interesting because especially like statistically he produces well individually and he scored a bunch of goals this year and if you watch him he does a lot of stuff like the microstat data reflects that he's very involved he's active he's all over the puck

and yet it hasn't really translated to actual team impacts and that's why a lot of the models don't like him he's going from a team that really struggled this year to one that plays differently certainly and I'm fascinated to see what it looks like. I think he's undoubtedly going to be better as defensively are when they go to better teams, but he's going to need to do a lot of heavy lifting

with the puck on that bench draw pair. And so I'm fascinated to see how he holds up. They give up the first in it, but ultimately the cap charge is negligible because they have so much capro moving forward and we're going to wind up using it anyways. And he expires after next season and the actual salary itself is only four.

and a half million next year as well. And I imagine that was a bit of a nice little perk for them. And they get off of Justin Holes expiring in the process. So I don't hate it. I don't love the player either, but it's a clear upgrade. And they needed to do something certainly for all the reasons you listed. So I'm okay with it. But I want to see what it looks like on the ice.

I do too. And that's just connect way earlier. He was one of the guys I was thinking about when I was talking about the Nazim Cadry plug and playability in Colorado, right? where like, hey, some team's got guys that are going to pop in right away. I'm fascinated to see how this all plays out. It's also, this is the first real deadline move we've seen as part of this EISER plan where he's actually been willing to spend assets of to actually go.

Like, for all this time, it's been the, for the, the most devout Eiser plan acolytes have always been, look how well he drafts, look at where this is going to go. Look at all these guys where we've got. And so today, they spend, they spend, they spend a first. That's good. They're willing to trade Pavel Bucenevich, who that's one of those where good, interesting prospect in Russia, probably their fifth or sixth best prospect, depending on how you go through things.

But he's a guy that like, when you've heard people talk about the long term plan for Detroit, he's a trending, Buccinovich was a trendy name for Red Rwings fans of like, oh, this is one of those hidden gems that he's going to, that's going to come in here and and pop off. So it was the first real move we've seen in season from Eiserman where he's like, okay, I've built up, I have this monopoly money of picks and prospects, so I'm actually going to finally spend on it. And so I was happy to see that because as we were getting closer and closer to it, it was, I laughed about it. So they made the trade to send Elmer Sotomayvloom off to Pittsburgh and they get a third round pick for that. And I was, I was the, there was the, there was

the defeatist mentality in me because what we've seen in Detroit. And obviously the biggest one that comes to mind is the Jake Wallman trade that happened a couple years back. But there's been so many times in Detroit where there's been a move like that. And you're like, okay, this is shoe one because shoe two must be really good, right? Like there's been a bunch of times. And I'm not saying Justin Falk is a franchise defining changing player. But at least there was a second shoe this time, right?

Like we've been waiting for seven or eight years now. for a second shoe to actually be in play when we hear about all these these Iserman 4D chess moves and we saw something. So I give, I, it's a big step in there, it's, it's as silly as it sounds and someone listening is going to say you're talking about Justin Falk.

This or this from a, where the organization is going and where Steve Iserman is willing to take this franchise now, this was actually a really, this is a bigger step than people realize because there's been so much of, we're going to wait and we're going to wait and we're going to wait and we're going to wait and we're going to finally there's been the okay we're going to we're going to trade away some of these

futures we're going to handle off some of this and I'm not I don't know I don't think they've done everything the right way but I have to give that credit because I've been on this show before and I've been like what are we doing here and so I have to at least give credit for finally billing willing to spend from that cachet of stuff where so I don't think you're wrong you're not wrong, but I love that you essentially describe Justin Falk as a gateway drug. You're like, oh, wow, I made this trade and that's, you know, so this is pretty fun. I'm going to, I'm going to escalate this and do all sorts of other trading. I hope it works out because I do want to see that selfishly. I do take very personal offense, though, that you messed up the prospect's name and called him

Pavel Bichnevich, and I get it. He's going to the blues. But it's my guy, Dimitri, which I did. Yeah, I did. As a fellow Dimitri, I simply cannot stand for for that. Oh, I said that, Sean. I'm like, Am I missing a major acquisition? No, no, I was, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, the wrong, uh, wrong Buchnevich there. Listen, call him whatever the last name you want, but put some respect on my guy, Dimitri, right? I am so sorry about that. To tie both on the, on the eyes of his stuff, like, I think he struck a balance here of like, doing something and adding a quote unquote core piece.

I realize he's only locked up through next year. Doing that without, you know, selling the farm without, sort of thinking of this as an all-in situation because, you know, I don't, I don't view the Red Wings as like a fully cooked chicken for like a better way to put it. Like, like they should be, you know, getting more aggressive and they were in the summer with John Gibson. They should be winding up, but, you know, I don't look at them as a as an avalanche team or something. So I think that Iserman is not only pleasing the fan base with this trade, but also doing, you know, the right thing to move this thing forward. Yeah, I think they're more in the, in the marinating phase right now than the. in the fully cooking phase.

All right, we got to get out of here. That was a lot of fun. We tried to cover as much as we could. Logistically, I knew going into this venture, we wouldn't be able to get to everything. So I will circle back on Sunday with the Trans on the Sunday special and we'll cover the rest and do everything we can there. I'll give you guys a chance to plug some stuff.

Mattis, I'll let you go first. What do you want to promote on the way out? Yeah, early next week I'll have a story, a feature on kind of what it's like to be a player when you're traded at the deadline, kind of that first couple of days, what's going on behind the scenes, how you find out that whole scene, if you will, that whole situation. And, you know, it's pretty unique.

Like, if we think about it, take away the fact that the professional athletes making a lot of money. It's kind of crazy that one day your boss just shows up and says, hey, you're moving across the country and you've got to be there in, you know, the next five hours and you've got to produce immediately. So digging into that a little bit. So I guess just follow me on Twitter. Mattis John M-A-T-I-S-ED

J-O-H-N All right, good stuff, buddy Sean, what do you want to promote? Yeah, I want to really plug the plug my own site, which I run through Substack, Shapshotshockey.com. That's one been,

I don't have a specific story in mind right now, like John's got coming up, but that's been one where we've been, it's been, we're two and a half years into that experiment and it's been kind of, I got a couple, Rupman had some really fun stuff

this week looking at, at no movement clause, no trade clauses earlier in the week, looked at kind of looking at some of the other, looked at some of the moves in Detroit and Dallas as well. And so some fun stuff there that I'm really looking forward to and we're going to have a fun march and beyond and everything with that. So that's shapshotshockey.com. That's kind of, I got to plug that.

All right. Well, good stuff, guys. The third annual three-man band post-deadline show is in the books. That was a lot of fun. if you enjoyed today's show, give us a five-star review wherever you listen, subscribe to the PDOCAS Patreon as well. I'll be doing some trade breakdowns and writing up some of the stuff we talked about here and more in the newsletter this weekend.

And we've got some extra shows there, did an ad show with A.J. Hathley, talked about a lot of other trades with Armand Dial as well. That is all for today. And this week, I'm going to go similar to what Sean said at the top. I'm going to go have a nice little beer and then take a nap. I hope everyone has a good weekend. We'll see you back here on Sunday evening for the Sunday special. I'm sure we're going to have a lot to talk about.

Thank you for listening to the HockeyPedio cast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.