The Hockey PDOcast - Unsolved: The '22-'23 Calgary Flames

Episode Date: April 3, 2023

Dimitri is joined by Thomas Drance of The Athletic to discuss the Calgary Flames' puzzling season and everything that has gone into it. They also touch on the Panthers, Devils, and Rangers.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovic. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Dimitra Filippovich and joining me here in the 650 studio. It's my good buddy Thomas Drans. Tom, what's going on, man? I'm doing well. Well, I'm joining you, but I just didn't leave. That's true. That's true. My show ended. I'm sticking around. Your shift continues. Yeah, I'm just going to have to gear out of talking about the Canucks, which takes me a minute, as you know. Well, right before we started, we're waiting in between our shows and you're just like reading the comments section on in athletic articles and I'm like I can't think of a worst possible usage of your time for my mental health yeah that's that's certainly no position to put yourself in before the show I need to

do like that puppy thing where you like shake it off you know yeah as my headphones fall off okay this is going to set you up then let's get you in a better headspace let's talk about a team that's really got everything together that has been thriving this season that has had no hiccups no issues along the way the calgary flames yeah oh boy who you just got to see were you you were you in the building I was in the building I was in the building for the game on Saturday. Oh, Friday. Friday, excuse me.

I'm so used to watching games on Saturday. It seems odd that, anyway, I just can't escape how off the vibes are with the Calgary Flames. Yeah. Like, I was stunned by what I was seeing in so many respects. Now, they're without Chris Tanniv. Mm-hmm. And he's really like a glue guy for everything. He brings everything together.

But, you know, I'm watching them. and technically they play brilliant hockey. Right. I think. Wow. I mean. From like a possession perspective? Yes.

In terms of like the way they're deactivate. Yeah. And the way they control the puck and their positional game, I feel like it's excellent. And then, you know, two and a half minutes of dynamic possession results in like three perimeter shots and nothing dangerous. Yeah. You know, and I can't tell how much of it is the problem. I can't tell how much of it is, like, they get the first chance, but they just don't quite get to the rebound that would have been like a really good chance. Yeah.

But it keeps happening and it's kept happening for 75 games. Like at some point, they're not doing enough to generate. And they're doing all sorts of weird stuff. Like their power plays, PP1 and PP2 are both balanced units. Yeah. They have way too much things like Zodorov carries the puck a lot. But it's like Jonathan Huberdow's on the ice. Yeah.

Although we were, I'm not sure if we talked about this on the podcast or just in our free time. We were having a beer or something off the record. But we were joking about how Zadora, like, if you went back and you showed someone like even 10 years ago, like clips of how Nikita Zadora plays right now, which is like an encapsulation of how defensemen in the NHO play, right? Yeah. It's like, wow, this guy must be like the best offensive defenseman in the world, right? Like just like the habits of like the activation and how like he roamed sometime in the offensive zone. When in reality, he's Nikita Zadora.

I love watching him play. That was like one of my favorite parts of the game. I was losing it watching Nikita Zadora. He was all over the puck. But it's good for Zadorav. I don't know that it's good for the flames, right? And that's sort of a, it feels like this is a really good, well-built team that's really bad at assessing the value of the shots they take in real time. And I can't escape that.

And then on top of it, I'm watching them. And I'm just like, you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of the Canucks. I know I'm not supposed to do Canucks Puck, but it reminds me of the Canucks late in the Travis Green era where it's like, positionally, they were doing a lot of the right stuff,

but there's, they just don't have the extra 5%. They don't have the talent though. I don't think we can say that it's a philosophical thing because last year we saw them play differently. Because they had the players. That's definitely part of it, but I also don't think they're getting as much out of this.

Like this group just looks like, They don't want to compete as hard as they can and should, given their circumstance, which is the nicest way that I can say they look like a team that's tuned out their coach. I mean, their game last night against the Ducks was like the perfect embodiment of their entire season. I'm worried that they've lost marks from now. Like, you best ride Vladar now, I think, because you can't expect. Markstrom having pulled him in that circumstance with your season on the line having shown him that you don't trust him I don't think you can expect him to be close to his best that's not how it

works like you can't well he's been horrible this season I get it but you but they've also been been handling him with kid gloves and showing him symbolically like right from the right from the first start that they skipped on him in in against the oilers they've been showing him like we're scarred from how you sucked in the playoffs last year like they haven't treated him like the guy and his game is regressed. That's not how they got the best out of him in Vancouver. He was the guy. If you struggle, we'll struggle with you.

You're who we're going down with the ship with. And they've done the complete opposite in Calgary. I don't think you can expect to get the best of him going forward here. You might as well roll Vladar, call up Dustin Wolf, and just be like, okay, we'll try it again next season. Like, I legitimately don't think having done what they did to Markstrom on Sunday against Anaheim, that they can expect him to just, like, have a bounce back performance. I mean, for the year, the tandem of the two,

of them is 28th and say percentage. Yeah, that's bad. Minus 36.2 goals able to have expected, which now that the Kings have sorted their stuff out with Corpusallo, I think, is probably the worst in the league. Yeah, Corpusolo looks great. So here's the thing. I have Kevin Woodley on tomorrow in the program. I'll save that for then. But the reason why I brought perfect cancellation, they wind up finishing the game out shooting the ducks and at home,

41 to 22. Yeah. And still, they're like fighting tooth and nail, right? They go down to nothing. They need like a bit of a fluky Mark Stone goal. Well, they go down 2-0. Markstone. Sorry. Oh, I wish they had Mars. 2-0. They score three straight goals in 8 minutes.

And you're like, all right, the momentum, right, if that's a thing in hockey, is shifted. Within the next minute, they give up a goal again. Which is exactly what happened against Vancouver. Yeah. Where they give up the goal to Beauvilliers from Niels Oman. Like, if you're getting burnt off the rush by Niels-Oman, 30 seconds after you fight tooth and nail to tie the game,

like that's just, that's what I'm saying, man. That's self-sabotage stuff that only really happens when your vibes are way. way off. Well, they are. I mean, at the same time, the last year, Daryl Sutter, like, decisively won the Jack Adams, and I don't think anyone, did you, like, I don't think anyone disagreed with it. I thought he did the best job. I, I'm, five months ago, I would have told you, I think Daryl Sutter is the best coach in hockey, bar not. Tactically. Best coach in hockey, period. Wow. The guy I trust the most to have, like, a massive impact on how a team plays five on five in a way that results and wins. But you would have said, the reason why I'm

differentiating, because you would have said, tactically, but maybe from like a longevity and a communication perspective. A man management perspective, sure. Yeah. No. And, but I thought, you know, veteran team that actually, you know, continued to get older, I thought this would be like a pretty good group for him. Obviously it hasn't turned out the way.

But there's two, okay, there's a, like, there's coaching when things are going well. And last year in the regular season, it was about as well as it could go, right? And obviously in the playoffs, they over, they ran into hurdles. Yeah. It barely got over the one in round one against Dallas, and then they got embarrassed by Loyalers. This year, when issues arise, I think that takes a different type of coach

or a different, like different coaching. Well, everything that could have gone wrong for them has. It has, right? But then at that point, you need like a certain level of communication, relationships with players,

I think, to manage that. I don't think you can just keep, like, plowing ahead the way you have. And that's kind of, like, that's why their offensive approach this year

is a perfect sort of embodiment of everything. It's just like, no matter what, they keep just, they haven't changed it. all. They keep doing the exact same thing over and over again. Well, also the personality types of their best players and thus the people leading you has changed pretty significantly. Now, on the one hand, you've got to Foley, who's super familiar

with Daryl, right? There's no surprises. He's been really good. He was unreal on, but he's always unreal at Rogers Arena. He saved them. He saved them, yeah. He did. Um, but like, you lose Kachuk. And I just feel like, from what I understand, Kach's, you can give Kachuk tough love. You can give him whatever, he's just Kachuk, right? And Jonathan, or sorry, Johnny Goddrow, who I don't have a very good sense of as a person. But I do think that there's a lot of Calgary Flames players that, you know, for example, Hubert Owen Weigerk, two guys I know a little bit better, who like were at their best when they had, you know, Brunette and Joel Quenville who are like all-man management guys, right?

Like that's really what they do. They build people up. Right. And, you know, I think Markstrom's a similar personality type. I just, I don't know if the way that this roster is built in terms of the personality of the players meshes well with Daryl's style. I, they're, you know, there's still, what, five games left in the season for them. I think they're only, they're two points back. But it's the, it's the back-to-back that's going to hurt them.

Yeah. That's a really tough game for them. And the game is at Winnipeg. Yeah, I can't wait, by the way. It's going to be awesome. And then they also have a game against Nashville and three games against teams that are already eliminated. But and it's Chicago first, Chicago. They play like the, and the sharks, and I think the Canucks one more time, right?

Yeah, they play the, they play the Canucks on the weekend. Dom has them at like just 28% playoff probability. I think Monipok has them higher because their underlying numbers are still like, like, if you just look at the data, you're like, all right, it's pretty clear that they're the superior team and they're only two points back, and they have a game against that team. But the issue is that I think we've spent these first 10 minutes talking that I think you need to peel back a few of those layers.

You can't just necessarily go, oh, they keep out shooting teams out, therefore they're better. I think the problem for the flames is they're going to be favored in four of their remaining five games, but that fifth game that they're going to be underdogs

is a four-point swing against the team they have to beat out. And so I think that's why Dom's model reacts and or weights them in that manner. Them being favored also carries, should carry no significance. Right. Like, we just talked about how they barely

squeaked out a victory at home against the ducks who are the worst team since 2007. Yeah, it doesn't make sense, man. I honestly, like, I can't figure it out because even watching them, there's so many players I like, and with the exception of Huberto, they're not playing badly individually.

Yeah. You know, like, Huberto is the only, and I didn't even think Huberto had a bad game on Saturday. Like, I thought Huberto looked totally fine. But they're all playing wet. Like, they're all good players who are all playing well individually, and it's just not working.

It's so strange. It is. Oh, can I just shout out? I love, love watching Andrew Mangiopani play. Yeah, he's excellent. I know he's regressed a bit offensively this year from the sparkling area last year. But I mean, he was a 40 goal guy last year. That was going to happen.

Yeah. I, he's got to be top five percentile hardest compete guys. like he competes so hard. His motor is so high and he brings it every shift. I was just like, man, I love watching this guy play hockey. Yeah, he's phenomenal.

Well, okay, so. Women's the door of. Regardless of what happens for them over these next five games, I'm really curious for you take on them this summer. Because last summer, they obviously, you know, their hand was forced.

Cataclysm. Their hand was forced. And so they had to make serious moves. They don't really have any huge decisions this summer unless you view it through the lens of summer 2024. So the following year, these are, this is their list of UFAs.

Michael Backlin, Elias Lit Home, Tyler Tofoli, Noah Hanofin, Chris Tanev, Nikita Zedorov. Roodle. And all of those players, like, Backlin is on the high end at 5.35 million per, right?

Everyone else is in the fours there. And I guess you could argue that, all right, like Backlin at his age isn't necessarily going to get some sort of monster ticket on the open market from anyone else. But pretty much all those players

are in theory, like their price tag is higher than what, their cap-friendly page currently has them at, right? Right. And so not only is it going to be impossible to keep this group together, even if you wanted to, but I feel like you almost, and it might be easier to do this if they wind up kind of,

pun intended, flaming out this week. If things go off and they don't make the playoffs, like, do you have to make those decisions this summer rather than waiting it out and then being in another spot where all of a sudden at next year's trade deadline, you're like selling for cents on the dollar? Well, so they really do not have much in the way of cap flexibility

for this off season, right? I mean, at least with the way it's built. Well, because, like, Lutridge's contract coming off the books is just being soaked up by the extensions they signed pass over. By Uyghur and Huberto, right? But on the other hand, you know, you basically have everything ready to go

and, you know, you hope you get Schillington back at some point for next season. So, you know, my view of it anyway would be, like, I don't know that you need, You have so much money expiring that you can, especially if this season goes badly, given the age of their best players, you have so much money expiring after next season that you might as well run it back, right? You might as well. With a different coach?

Well, yeah. And I mean, potentially a different GM given Brad Trillivings contract status. And by the way, I think Brad Trillivings is a totally good generalizing. No, but it seems like from his perspective he might want not. Like that's that was the talking point at the trade deadline, right? They were like, oh, well, he's not sure if he wants to sign up for more of this. Super fair. So, yeah, but definitely with a new coach and potentially with a new GM.

But I mean, I just think structurally with the age of the players and given the commitments you've made to Markstrom, Huberto, Tann of all these guys, you know, you got to run it back at least another year, especially because your meaningful cap flexibility comes thereafter. You can change direction, but you're really in a two-year window that, kind of is win now. And what's baffling to me is that they've allowed this season to fester in terms of it being clear that the group is less than the sum of their parts. And that I can't figure out. Like, why do you, why do you have a lame duck GM when the team is this, like, win now built? How do you, how do you allow a situation to exist where everyone's like, well, the GM probably can't fire the coach. Right.

Given that we all think a coaching change, we all think, everyone thinks that a coaching change would have a huge impact. Yeah. Or would have had a huge impact 30 games ago. Like they've built this win now team and then not service that win now team with how they're structured organizationally. That to me would, you know, it's baffling, but also would drive me absolutely baddie if I covered that team day today.

No, but that's what I'm saying. So regardless of what happens, heading into the summer, right? You're staring down the barrel of eight more years. of Jonathan Ruberto and six more years when I was in Cadry at like 17.5 combined, right? Yeah, and a bunch of years of Uighur. Yeah, but he's, no, but like, that's a very movable contract in the sense that he's very, very good and he's still not.

And he played great on Saturday. He's phenomenal. He's been awesome. Yeah. But what I'm saying is like, you're technically committed with this win now team, but if you looked at the market, how desirable would to Foley with one year at 4.25, where everyone can squeeze that in at Linholm under 5 million, at 10-5 million,

Like, you're not selling for the sake of selling, you could conceivably get significant assets that you could then shift into a different era of Calgary Flames hockey. But you do that. I think that's stuff you can do. Like, you're so pot committed with the deals that would be hard to move. You're saying you just wait till the deadline worst case. See what you got. Yeah. Especially if you've got it, like especially if it's a new GM who comes in.

It's not like the value of those guys is going to diminish at midseason. Like they're actually even less expensive. Right. To, for a friend team, acquire teams. Anyone can take them on. It's less expensive for you to eat half. Like you can significantly redesign this team in midstream if that's what you want to do. Or they're good.

And you decide what pieces you want to keep and what you're willing to jettison next offseason. Especially because some of these guys, like obviously Elias Lindholm is going to be super expensive on his next deal. Yeah. But I don't think Chris Tanev is necessarily. I don't think, I mean, Mikhail Backland, you can. He's worth more than the flames than anyone else. Yeah, for sure. And, like, Backlin probably ends up getting a pay cut.

I mean, some of these guys will be more pricey. Well, Haniffin stands out to me. Haniffin's a very rare piece, right? Yeah. But for the most part, I think you'll have some flex to, you know, not necessarily keep the group together, but certainly keep some of it together. Make some smart choices in terms of moving forward. For me, this is a very clear run-it-back team.

Yeah, and they've also got, like, they wind up signing Coronado. They got Zeri, like they've started incorporating Peltier, Dustin Wolf down the road. Yeah, not nearly enough. But it seems like, but like when you're thinking of who's going to coach this team, right, I think that should also factor in as well, like, someone maybe who could better incorporate and divvy up ice time to these guys to let them succeed as opposed to it being a constant sort of struggle and learning and like having to like tough love it on your first year in the league. Well, and I mean, Huberto's best games have come with Pelletier.

Yeah. Like that combo has been, I just, you know, I'd love to see them roll with Hubert O on the right side, Lindholm at Center and Pellichet at left wing. And like, maybe that's not a line that plays Tufts. But that's what you've got Backlin for. That's what you've got Cadre for, right? I mean, one of the reasons I thought this team was going to be so good is I thought they had three matchup caliber centermen. You know, I thought they had a defensive core that was one of the best.

The best line in the league. Yeah. Like that was, you know, the goaltending, I think, has hidden. just how smothering this team can be defensively. But why I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why a team that struggles this much to score hasn't tried to carve out a like offensive energizer bunny line, you know,

as almost like a third line, especially given the struggles of Huberto and sort of tamped down on their competition and just tried to have like one line that can really drive goal differential while everyone else drives play. Like to me, that doesn't, that that seems like such an obvious fit, and we just haven't even seen them try it for any length of time all season. Well, yeah, and that's why when you're trying to sort out between like how much of the

personnel, how much of the coaching, to explain it, right? Because they're 31st in shooting percentage. They're second in, like, I think only the hurricanes shoot more in the hurricanes are in their own category. They're actually similar in this regard where getting a lot of very low percentage shots and sort of hacking, hacking the expected goal system in that regard. Like, I don't think... Yeah, except the hurricanes...

Like, the flames probably are the 18th to 20th best offensive team in the league just based on their volume. But like, if you look at the looks they're getting, I don't think they've been that unlucky. Even though they're 31st and... Oh, well, they've been unlucky in save percentage. I think they've been unlucky in terms of Lidar. And that's driving a goal differential a little bit for sure. But I don't... I agree with you that they haven't been that unlucky, but I also think they should...

they are better than that in terms of true talent, even offensively, and it would help a lot if they weren't doing things like splitting their talent equally between the first and second unit and also putting the second unit with two defensemen. Like, you know, there's some really simple stuff that feels to me like it could pay massive dividends in terms of just modernizing their basic approach to manufacturing goals. And not even like a lot, just a little. Well, that's why last year, like I think, I think Daryl Sutter does want to roll the lines, but that first line was just so dominant and unique that like not only could he he just couldn't

hold them back in a sense like you had to send them out there but also you could see in the ice time that they were manufacturing additional shifts for them where they could whereas i think it's telling how he feels about this team if you look at the way to distribute their ice time it's it's pretty narrow between the first and fourth line and i think you know we talk about how like coaches actions speak louder in the words in terms of usage and i think that that's sort of telling to me that it's like a coach that's like well i just don't think the top players have earned playing significantly more. And that's why you're seeing the fourth line

getting out there for 10-11, 5-15 minutes a night. For sure. Yeah. And I mean, just like the Nick Ritchie experience, both on the power play. Well, I scored a big goal for them yesterday.

I mean, they got goals from him, Luchage, and Michael Stone, to carry them to victory and save their season. Yeah, I just... So much of this, so much of this I struggle with, you know? Yeah, I'm just, I'm surprised that it's gone this way, to be totally honest with you. And I'm surprised that there's been so little

to try and just do the obvious stuff, like bring some extra speed to the Hubert O line. Like it feels like there's been, feels almost careless in terms of how the club has targeted trying to stem the tide of their key players that have struggled. Like it just doesn't feel like they've hit enough buttons to try and get Huberto. or Markstrom going.

It's stubbornness, right? Yeah. We're going to do this my way and we're going to keep doing it no matter what. Yeah, I mean, it does feel wasteful a bit. It's too bad because, again,

I'm watching the game. I'm like, I like all of these. Like, I even like Walker Doer a lot. Yeah. I'm like, man, this guy can play. Like, I'd be fascinated to watch Coronado get a shot. You know, I think there's something there.

I thought, I thought Weiger had a tremendous game. Like there was a rush chance and it was one of Vancouver's dangerous players. I think it was Pedersen, Kuzmenko, or Miller. And he had this little bump where he was like, they were side by side with him and 99 of 100 NHL defensemen are beat in that moment. And he just sort of was able to skate backwards quickly enough that he could put his hip into the player. And he just bumped them like a half meter off stride. And it's in the corner harmlessly.

Yeah. And it was just like it was. a Ham-Husian bit of just like brilliant rush defense. And not a lot of players can make that play. It was so high-end. And they get plays like that all over the ice from Hannafin and Anderson. And, you know, it's just baffling to me that it doesn't work. It doesn't make sense.

Well, yeah. I mean, on the weaker note, I made this point during a Panthers pod last week. But I think the Panthers, you know, for all to talk about how good they were on the rush last year offensively, they were also one of the best teams on the rush defensively. And they miss him. And this year they also went to like middle of the pack in terms of expected goals against off the rush. And it's almost entirely because he is like one of the top five rush defenders in the league.

And they just don't have them there as like the last line of defense to back them up when they have four forwards deep in the zone. But the parallels between these two teams are fascinating. I don't think it's a lazy comparison just because they had that trade with each other last summer. Right. Think about it. Regular season. right? They have what, the Flames

is finished with 111 points, the Panthers are with 122. They both win round one. They both lose an embarrassing fashion to geographical rivals in round two. They make this trade. Now they're both fighting for the Western Conference second spot in their respective conferences. And there's a very good case to be made

that both of their coaches have been a big reason for why they haven't maximized the personnel they have. Vegas books, okay, to make the playoffs. Calgary Flames plus 195. So Vegas Vegas has a Calgary Flames fade on at the moment, plus 195. Jets are minus 200.

Right. Florida Panthers, they think are likely to make it, but less likely than the Islanders and the Penguins. Minus 245 for the Islanders, minus 240 for the Penguins, minus 125 for the Panthers. So both are, at least reading the books, more likely than not to be on the outside. was remarkable after the years they had last year. Incredible. And, you know, you talked about the Flames Jets game on Wednesday that you're excited for. Can I interest you in a little...

Oh, yeah. Devon Levi versus the Panthers on Tuesday as a little appetizer for that game? The Devon Levi revenge game? Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's going to be a remarkable game. The... Do you hear the Uighur quote in the Flames locker room after the game against the Kinex

where he said the vibes are immaculate in referring? to his own team, which like, you know. And then did he like look, look to someone? Yeah, then he held up. Then he held up a newspaper with today's date. But proof of life quality, a bit of untruth or not. It's a great quote. The vibes are immaculate.

Yeah, it's fantastic stuff. It really applies, though, to the Sabres, right? Four in a row or five in a row. Are they five in a row? Yeah, they're at five in a row now. And that game against the Rangers feels like, a bit of a turn. Like this team was so desperate. Yeah. For a goalie. Um, there was a season early in in Broder's career. It might have been his first year where they, they won eight games in a row

and snuck into the playoffs. I'm just saying. I'm just saying the Buffalo Sabres to make the playoffs plus 650. That would be a fun sprinkle if I was a gambling man. I'm with you on that. All right. Tom, let's take our break here. And then when we come back, we're going to keep chatting about a variety of topics. You are listening to the Hockey Pee-Ocast as always streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. Catch up on what happened in Vancouver Sports with Halford and Bruff in the morning. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're back here on the Hockey-Ocast on this Monday afternoon.

Thomas Drans in studio with us. Tom, we talked about the flames and the Panthers at the top. Let's talk about two actually good teams, the devils and the Rangers, because I'm really, you know, it seems like we're, we've been headed for this collision course in round one between these two teams. teams for a while there it looked like the devils might actually steal the one seed in the metro from the hurricanes but now the canes are up three points with a game in hand with only a handful of games left it feels like we are going to get devils rangers they played last week and it was like a really fun i think informative experience i saw a lot of what i was really

curious to see from both teams there but you know they both made big moves a bit i big acquisitions for forwards of the deadline and i don't know let's start this from from the devil's perspective because they've had a bit of a, like a tale of three seasons, right? They started out of the gate really hot, like all of their underlying numbers were just preposterously good. They had a bit of a swoon even though they kept winning games through the middle of the year. Jack Hughes got hurt.

And then now the past 20, 25 games, they've rebounded. All of their numbers look as good as they did at the start of the year. They're not scoring as much, and their goal-tenings dipped a little bit, but they're looking dominant again from a possession perspective and underlying metrics perspective. So what do you want to talk about with this devil's team? What kind of interests you the most with them as we look ahead to their first real sort of like test of this magnitude in round one against a Rangers team that made a run last year? So I'm really curious to see one thing in particular.

So we know that the Rangers go with three lines and the kid line never gets broken up, right? I'm very curious to see if the Rangers have enough two-way skill up front to really match up with the devils if they fatten their lines. So like one of the things I'm most interested to see is how the devil's approach and begin. Let's like begin that series. Because for me, the player that's like the extra. factor from a devil's perspective against New York is Mercer if he's in the middle of the third line. Like then I think there are a massive handful. I don't think they're going to use him like that

though. No, I think he'll probably stay on the wing. Yeah. And but, but I'm curious to see if the Rangers can play Halla of like onto the fourth line. You know, I'm curious to see if there's enough, well, I think if the devil's fatten their lines so that, um, Hala goes to the fourth, Mercer goes to the third, and then Sharon Govich bumps up. I think that's going to be a real handful for the Rangers. And I think if Mercer plays on the wing, I think that's a way more favorable environment for the Rangers to be able to use their top nine more creatively. Well, I think it's a fascinating stylistic matchup based on the two-team strengths and weaknesses.

For sure. And you saw it in that game, right? The Devils won. It was like, as the game went on, it really tightened up. They wound up winning 2-1. They handled the outshot, outchanced, outplay them. I thought that you could see that, like, the devil's team speed. And they're going to do this to most teams.

I don't think this is an indictment against the Rangers. But like their team speed gave the Devils some problems, especially on the breakout, right? Like, beyond Fox, like, I love Keondra and Miller. But he can still, he's not necessarily like that comfortable with going back, playing the puck and then breaking it out. He resorts, too often, in my opinion, for how skisks. guilty is to like glass and out and like not necessarily trying. And maybe it's coaching as well, right? They're telling them to do so. I also think it's his partner. I think when you have Kandre Miller and Truba, I think both of their instinct is the same in that situation. You don't have

the guy who's like more likely than the other to calm it down. Yeah. And so then you watch those guys and then especially if they're like playing Ben Harper on the third pair. Like it's, they're having a really tough time stringing together passes especially against that speed. But one area where they can really exploit the devils is because the devils still are such an aggressive. offensive team. If they get too deep in the offensive zone, the Rangers are going to counterpunch the living heck out of you. And that would be a concern for me in that series where if the devils kind of like get a bit

carried away or a bit ahead of themselves and get too deep, the Rangers, regardless of what the shock lock says and how much they're getting like outchance and everything, their ability to take that and all of a sudden just get a two on one out of nowhere is going to be something that's going to loom large, I think, in this series. And that's what's so fascinating because they want to beat you in entirely different ways. is Luke Hughes going to be replacing Kevin Ball? Well, Kevin Ball's been good for them. He has, but, like, Luke Hughes is the best defenseman outside the NHL right now.

And after the Frozen Four games, what, this weekend? Yeah. I mean, they might be getting another, like, impact defenseman into that lineup. For sure. That's another X factor that I don't think we can ignore. Like, there's a chance that they're adding a super talented third pair guy. Yeah, like that time when they have just dropped Kil McCarr into their playoff lineup, against the flames and everyone was like oh my god and it was like an atom bomb yeah yeah they did it with

goddrae too a few years back right like um so no i mean i think uh i think there there's a lot going on in that series tactically and i think you're right it's it's i just really struggle with this rangers team because i'm curious to know how far can you like i think their best two-way forward is Barkley Godreau and he's going to play on their fourth line. Wait, wait, wait, wait. No. Who is then? Heidel? It's a binidette. Come on. I'm just saying like, that's one thing in the regular season. Yeah. It's a different thing when you're talking Aho and Heeshire and well, you know, that that level of competition in my mind anyway. It Barkov maybe. I mean, I'm just saying like those, it's a different.

task entirely. And I just wonder if the Rangers have enough two-way skill up front. Yeah. That I can't escape it. Well, they really need a second week as they've been a jet. Because on the one hand, I think they want to play him toe to toe to with other team's best players, but they also need him to drive offense. Right.

Right? And it's very tough to do both those things at the same time. Like I think ideally, especially if the devils are going to load up a line and they've moved Timel Meyer all over the place, so who knows how they're going to wind up using him. But if they load up a line with Meyer, Brad, and Hughes, it's like, all right, if we can play those guys to a draw, I know the devils have other players and his shear's line and Mercer and all that. But we'll take our chances. But the problem is, is like the Rangers can't really just, they can't throw away Zabinajad and his line in a defensive setting because they also need him to badly outscore the other team. Now he's going to do a lot of his damage on the power play as well.

But that's kind of where I think what you're hinting at is really comes to play. Especially because against this devil's team, it's not like you're going to be able to throw out the kid line and they're going to be playing against a conventional bottom six line. Right. They're going to be playing, you know, some line that has like at least a Sharon Govich on it or maybe a Dawson Mercer or something like that, right? Keep an eye on desperate Bochrist. Yeah, I really like what I've seen from him. I'm a big fan. Yeah. I mean, I'm a, I, the devils like when they had Zetterland too, right? Between Zetterland and Bochfist, they had sort of a bunch of like little fire hydrant. battle winners. Because that's the thing about Bochrist, right? People see the size and they're like, oh, he's a little fast guy. And it's like, no, he's a little guy who wins a ton of battles along the wall. Yeah. It's, yeah, he's a really good complimentary piece for them.

The thing with the Rangers is, and I don't, this isn't even like a bad thing, but they've sort of reverted a lot to what they were last year. And the reason why I'd say it's not necessarily a bad thing is because part of that is Igor Shosturkin is playing really, really, really well again. in the past 13 games since basically then in November, he has like a 935, say, percentage. And that's obviously going to be a big factor here as well, because I think part of their strategy is going to be getting out shot

and losing that willingly, but then converting on their chances and also just having E. Gorsesha Sturkin versus V take advantage. And that power play is a work of art. Yes. The thing about goaltending. You don't know anything about it. I don't know anything about it.

Nor do I, by the way. Right. But I do know this. I do know this. at the end of the day, if you've got one guy who's elite and one guy who's league average, but all that matters is their performance in the next seven games. Yeah. Like, you may as well pick names out of a hat.

You have an edge, but it's not like the edge that it looks like on paper. It's like a 55 to 45% edge. Like the average guy is not quite as likely, but pretty nearly as likely to be the 935 guy over the ensuing week and a half that matters. So I'm always really reluctant to be like, and they have the edge in net, because you can spend a month talking about it, and then you get into the playoff series, and it's like Jack Campbell and Andre Vasselowski have the exact same same percentage in a seven-game series. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, no, definitely. I think Shasturkin's like athleticism, especially in this matchup where the devils create so many of these like East West Ches is so special. It's very useful for them. But with this Rangers team, the other thing to consider is there are two acquisitions.

Kane has a 42.7 on ice, expected goals trip by and five on five. Teresenko just under 42. But the thing for them is, and this is what I keep going back to, I don't, for them to be effective and come out as a net positive, they can afford to get smashed in a lot of these categories if they're going to maximize their efficiency with Teresanko's shot as we saw him, like, go down the wing and beat Darcy Kemper with the wristary yesterday,

as we've seen Kane with his passing. But at some point, you do, like, you take on enough water where it doesn't really matter if you're doing that. And once you're hovering around the 40s, that's where it becomes kind of like perilous. Well, this was my concern when they made those deals was do they have enough two-way talent up front? Yeah. And, you know, it remains like, so I watched the Kings too this weekend.

I saw the Flames and the Kings, both at Rogers Arena, and I'm watching this King's team that has no Fial in the lineup, no Gabe Valardi in the lineup, and no Mikey Anderson. And Corpusalo was great, and I'll leave that for Woodley. Mm-hmm. And I'm not Gavrikov's biggest fan, but especially. with Mikey Anderson out of the lineup. Yeah. He fills a huge role for them. Like that is something they were so desperate for.

And I'm watching this. And, you know, I know you were hoping that they would go bigger, but I'm sort of thinking, like, I don't know that anyone did a better job. Yeah, the two for one was, it worked out well. Like, like, you can't tell me. You can't tell me that the Leafs wouldn't be better off if they'd made that trade. For example, just as like, you know, another team that could have benefited from making that deal. that to me is the team that maybe upgraded themselves the most. The Rangers and their deadline additions,

it almost feels like retro Rangers, where it's like they got the big names, but maybe the impact of those guys isn't quite as big as it looks on the marquee anymore. Now, are you, will you confirm or deny the rumors that you were there scouting Gabrikov getting ready for covering them full time next season? No, I wasn't. I mean,

No, you aren't. It was at least, it was at least partly in my, Can Ix have like five million in caps space? Like, I'll start worrying about Gavrakov when they trade like two guys. Yeah. You know? I'll talk about Meyer a bit because I think there's this kind of like idea that I've seen that it's a bit disappointing, right?

He's got six goals, three assists in 16 games. Hasn't necessarily had like the wow factor yet for an extended period of time. In this game in particular, though, I thought you saw exactly why I was so excited about this for them because in a game where the checking became a bit tighter where the rangers were trying to be physical with them like meyer showed his unique ability to just like put his head down and take the puck to the net and be like just a bull and incredibly aggressive and that's going to be awesome and i know that the goals haven't come yet but if you look all of the shot chance generation numbers are like eerily similar to where they were on a permanent basis with the sharks at the start of the year before

he got traded and with him on the ice they have a 65 percent 5-105 expected goal share. Like, I think the Meyer experiment is going to work out just fine, even though the counting stats haven't necessarily reflected that yet. You're excited. You're, like, rubbing your hands. They're like mischievously. No, I know.

I'm just thinking about a game that the devil's won against Vancouver. Your ability to bring everything back to the Canucks here is... Because I watch a lot of Canucks. Yeah. But, no, there was a game that the Devils won against Vancouver right after the All-Star break, early in Rick Tock's tenure. And they really had a tough time dealing with Dakota Joshua. And if you have a tough time dealing with Dakota Joshua, you need a team home fire.

Yeah. You know, like for me, it's really that simple. And when I've watched them play, there are moments particularly on the breakouts that don't go according to plan. Yeah. Where you kind of just need a guy who can shield the puck for a second and get it out for you. Yeah. I feel like Myers brought something they just sorely needed in certain areas of this. And not even like the classic heavy areas around the blue paint, but like along the wall down low and along the along the wall near the blue line on breakouts, they just needed another guy built like Sharon Govich and Tatar who could who could handle those sorts of physical matchups. And Myers brought that. And I think he's excelled at that at the little things.

it were. And then the offense, everything else is going to come. He's so good. Yeah, his ability to, like, those are kind of broken plays, especially in the neutral zone. You're going to see that in this series because, like we just said, the Rangers take those and flip the ice for a scoring chance as well as anyone. And so his ability to sometimes take those when it's not a clean exit and still get it down the ice and retain possession and then set up a sequence is going to be massive.

I haven't seen enough of him in New Jersey to have a really good answer for this because you know how laser focused I am on the Pacific. I've watched more Timom Meyer on the sharks this season than I have since he got traded. And I thought he was really unfocused at times this year in San Jose. And I don't blame him. Like that's not something I hold against him. Yeah. But there were some really ugly body language moments from him in San Jose.

Has that been completely fixed? Yeah, completely fixed. Like he's had a couple of not ideal penalties. he's taken. Part of that is like his playing style. And also I think just like a bit of like overzealousness, new team like, like, acclimating yourself, all that. I'm not worried about. I don't think that's like a sign of like being on discipline. And that's you just take that with good players like him. I wouldn't worry about that. I think that's like entirely situation dependent. It just speaks to like what a disaster. The sharks. Yeah, totally.

Have been this season. Doesn't have anything to do with. I think Meyer moving forward. So I wouldn't worry about that at all. I think, I mean, think about him, right? He's like he comes, he's, he's starts his NHL career on the Sharks team that has this long playoff run where they're making the postseason every year and at least like some level of contender right and then the time he becomes available for a big deal and remember this this angered a lot of teams around the league that were like oh like he took this sort of deal to help keep quote unquote the sharks together right it was what six million or something was was the AAB and it wound up having the big qualifying offer as we know but it was like a lot of teams were like oh we felt like we didn't even like have

chance to to go out and potentially like steal him or or give a competitive offer as if teams would even give a qualifying offer to begin with or sign an offer sheet. But the thing is, is he took that money and it was like under this idea that, all right, we're going to keep the sharks good. And then like immediately the bottom falls out. Yeah. He hasn't played a single playoff game since. And it's been what, four years like in the meat of his prime. And so I think he's without getting too deep into like the psychoanalysis angle. I think I think I think he's going to any of those concerns are going to benefit from like playing competitive playoff games. That's that summer by the way, that forward class, that specific summer, the summer of 2019

is so fascinating to me for so many reasons. But you think about like all of the guys that got bridged. Yeah. Have been dealt at this point. Like to Brinkett. Yeah. Meyer, Kachuk. Like it's wild.

Well, we should also know it was it was the last summer before the pandemic, right? For sure. And so I think there was a lot of like, well, the cap is just going to keep going up. And so it's okay taking a bit less now because we'll benefit on the back end. And now it's like, the cap hasn't really gone up at all. No. Well, I mean, the only teams that did it all well in getting those guys extended were Toronto with Marner, despite all the belly aching about that contract over the ensuing four years.

And Winnipeg, obviously, with Kyle Connor. Yeah. It's a sick deal. Okay. Is there anything else on the devils here? I'm kind of like, we hit a lot of my points on. I can't wait for that. Round one is going to be awesome, right?

We're going to have Leaves Lightning. We're going to have Devils Rangers. We're going to have a bunch of awesome matchups. But I think this one just from a, and it's not even like the two fan bases and the geography and anything. It's purely like on the ice. I'm so fascinated to see which team's style wins out. Well, me too.

And I'm fascinated by all the things we don't know yet, right? Like I'm, if Luke Hughes is playing in that series, I think that's a fascinating extra wrinkle. Like, I don't think we can undersell how big an impact Luke Hughes can have if he joins the Rangers. Like I really think that would be, sorry, the Devils,

I really think that would be the Devils adding a day one elite player. Like, I think he's going to be a high-end player at the moment he steps into the lineup. And it's hard for me to understate, you know, if you're able to go Seagenthaler, Graves Hughes, I think that's a ludicrous edge for them to have, potentially.

The thing is, is like, and Jared Bednar just generally doesn't really get credit because people feel like he's been handed this like just ideal situation but throwing McCarren, yeah. But like, and just like immediately being like, do whatever you want, have fun out there. And in a series where they wind up winning it, right?

And it's like, I think especially in this matchup, I do struggle a little bit to like envision Lindy Ruff as much as he's evolved and adapted over his career being like, all right, I'm going to just fully trust this guy just like with like no experience or like connectivity with this team in terms of like practices and everything throughout the year, just stepping in and immediately playing a meaningful role. Now he can still, in a sheltered third pair role where BP2 or whatever, he can still contribute.

But I don't think it'll be like the same impact unless he just, he plays so well or there's an injury that just sort of forces their hand. Yeah, I just think there's certain players who. Like undeniable. As soon as you step on the ice, it's like, all right, we can't, we can't stop. We can't go back. Right. And so like maybe there's a couple games where it's like, yeah, we'll play them on the third pair. And then you're just like, oh, right, I want to win.

This guy will help me win. There are players who are undeniable like that, and I think Hughes is that quality of prospect. I mean, I was talking about his last week, like, him and Nemitz as like a sheltered third pair needs to happen for the next year, right? Both on ELCs allows them to keep all their forwards. It's like just let Severson and Graves walk. Slam dunk. All right. So we talked about we're excited for, what are we excited?

We're excited for Panthers, Sabres on Tuesday. We're excited for flames, jets on Wednesday. Oh, man. This week is so good. It's going to be really good. This week is so good. That Wednesday game, I'm, like, hyped. Like, I can't wait.

Now, I'm doing some, like, a show meeting here, even though we're on air. So I'm curious for the scheduling. Do you know yet? Like, the season ends on, there's a makeup game, and it's next Friday, right? Even though most teams wind up finishing by Thursday. Sure. I'm hoping that they're not going to start the playoffs on the weekend, right? Like, they're going to start them on Monday or something?

I think it's the 17th. Which is, like, the Monday. Sorry, I need to pull up a calendar. It's not going to start on the weekend, right? No, no, no. That would be a disaster. For me personally, because I want to get some show previews out to start the week. Okay, that's good.

I'm expecting the Monday. Yeah. Okay. I like it. Well, I'm looking forward to that. Anything else you're looking forward to before we sign off here? I think I'm going to, well, I'm excited to watch the Cracken tomorrow. Yeah.

I think I'm going to jump on and cover some Cracken games in the playoffs, which I'm excited for too. Well, you and I are going to go, regardless of you covering them, we've decided, right? We're going to go, I'm going to try to get a Mariners game in as well, but we're going to watch. A Crack and Blackin. Because I've yet to watch a game in that building. I've heard only great things. It's incredible. And you know what?

One thing that I think is like an under told story of the Cracken's success because sort of the inverse of the Calgary Flames, they've been like one of the most opportunistic finishing teams. And when you look at the composition of that roster and look at what they prioritized adding over the course of the last 12 months in particular. I mean, McCann was already there. But Burakowski, raw shooting talent, Bjork Strand, raw shooting talent. and then waivers Eli Tolvinen and then also Daniel Sprung, right? I mean, they've really built this like one shot scoring machine that sort of offsets the fact that, you know, until Baneers levels up, which is going to happen, it just hasn't quite yet. They don't really have like an elite offensive engine. Instead, they have all this finishing depth talent.

I think it's made them a really unique matchup and a really tough one for teams to handle all season long. It's been it's been fun to watch and it'll be fun to watch them in the playoffs. I'm looking forward to it. All right, Tom. I'm also looking forward to Vince Dunn and Adam Larson. I want to see them live. They've been really good. Fantastic.

I think Vince Dunn's getting slept on is like a Norris Dark Horse. Well, I do think, like, having Larson with him, though, has helped a lot. After he bounced around with partners last year. For sure. But yeah, no, you're right. I still think he's the driver on that pair, though. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm with you on that. Let the listeners know where they can check you out, what you've been working on. ConnectSour is the podcast. You can listen to it on Sportsnet 650 from noon to 2. PM every day, Monday to Friday, and then go to the Athletic Vancouver prospect coverage this week in addition to season ending stuff, gearing up to look ahead. Today's article is a offseason to do list for the Canucks, but stay tuned because I've got player or prospect comps later this week, one of my favorite things to do.

All right, bud, well, this is fun. We're going to have you back on. Once the playoffs start, do some deep dives and breakdowns when we have games to discuss. Thank you, everyone for listening to the HockeyPediocast. We'll be back tomorrow with more here on the Sportsnet Radio. network