The Hockey PDOcast - Utah’s Improved Play, Playoff Spots Up for Grabs, and Getting Your Coaching Hire Right

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Steve Peters to talk about Utah's improved play over the past 10 games and the drivers of that success, the playoff races in both conferences and how many spots are actually up for grabs, and the importance of getting your head coaching hire right. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the HockeyPEDO cast. My name is Dimitra Filipovich. And joining me to close out the week is my good buddy, Steve Peter. Steve, what's going on, man? Yeah, it's another good week of hockey. And I got to say, down here in Arizona, the sun is shining. Dimitri, I'm not so sure about where you are.

Yeah, it's not raining at least, which is nice. Oh, really? Although it's getting pretty cold for Vancouver standards, and it feels like it's dark all the time. So I certainly miss the sun and I'm very jealous. It's fun. We're getting a good rhythm here. I feel like we're getting you on every three weeks or so, generally on Fridays. I feel like it's a really fun way for us to close the week out.

We're also coming off of, as you said, a really fun night of hockey on the Thursday night docket, right? There were 14 games. Here on my notes, I've got a quick rundown. Scott Lawton, four-goal game against the Red Wings, including a breakaway clapper, which is one of my favorite moves. of anyone to pull out. And he rocked it off the bar. It was a phenomenal look for him.

Celebrini, dominating the blues. Arguably his best individual performance so far. I thought it was incredibly impressive. The Predators going into Dallas and winning with a blue line of Shea, Shen, Del Geyso, Blankenberg, Gravel, and Adam Wilby. And they won four one, I believe. They had another goal taken off the board. It's another example of how great and random regular season hockey is

that anyone can win on any given night. Pittsburgh put nine on Montreal. Tampa Bay put eight on Calgary, including six points from Nikita Kutrov. Edmonton put seven on Minnesota on the road. We got an Alexi Protis, one of my favorite players in the league this year, overtime winner.

Everything was happening. It was really fun. Something else that happened on the Thursday night schedule was Utah continuing their strong run of play, right? They go into Colorado. They win 4-1. It was a pretty low event game, generally speaking, right?

Both teams were kind of in the low 20s and shots, there weren't too many high danger chances to go around, but it was a continuation of what we've seen from this Utah Hockey Club recently during this winning stretch they've been on, squeezing points out seemingly every single time they play. And I wanted to note that because I believe last time I had you on a couple weeks ago, it was the low point of Utah's season, right? They had just gotten shut out in Boston following Joe Sacco's coaching debut for the Bruins. We had this note about how since a hot start, they were like four, nine, and three had been averaging about two goals per game.

And ever since that point, they've been six, two, and two in their past 10 games. They've outscored opponents 38 to 21, and things have really turned around. And so I wanted to get into that with you, kind of what sparked that change, what you're seeing from them, because obviously you cover them quite closely. And I generally try to make a point of, I don't consume too much hockey content, but I always watch when you and Craig Morgan get together and break these games down. I really enjoy your guys rapport. So give me the goods, P.D.

What are you seeing from this Utah hockey club? and especially last night, of course, against the I-Lange, but just in general during this 10-game stretch. You know what's funny, because this is a team that's up and down, and that's kind of what you expect from a young team to see them go through these growing pains. And right now, they're playing really well. We've got points in 7 of 8, like you mentioned, five consecutive road games. But if you go into the Colorado locker room after last night's 4-1 loss,

Colorado is going to say, oh, we didn't play well. We didn't come with our speed. It wasn't a regular game. So they'll make excuses for right now. I think in Philadelphia and Buffalo, I think you're going to see the same kind of thing. Oh, we didn't play well enough and they snuck one out. But what Utah's done now

is kind of what they did last year when this team was in Arizona. They're playing fast. They look fast. They're actually a pretty exciting team to watch when they're playing well. And they need to play fast because this is a team that struggles on the back end. Let's face it, Dursies out, Marino's out now, Bortuzosos out, Mavrik Lamaroos

out. Their back end is tattered. But really what drives us, it's everything falling into place. Goaltending has been great. Karel Vamel. If you don't start hearing Karel Vemalka's name start being mentioned about a trade deadline acquisition from the goaltending perspective. He's a guy that's near the top of saves above expected right now in the entire NHL. People just don't know who he is.

He doesn't have that big resume. But Karevomalk is playing great. And they're getting offense because people are going to the net. And this team, if you haven't seen Utah play in a while, this second line right now with these young guns of Kooley, Gunther, and McBain, they're a fun, young, exciting line that Utah hopes to be the future for many years to come. Yeah, that line in particular really stood out to me in that game watching against the avalanche. Gunther obviously had the two goals, a bit of good fortune with a couple bounces, and I will say in Colorado's defense because they had been playing much better recently.

I think you can attest to this, like after a long road trip, especially out east, coming back home generally, I think we see a bit of that sort of lethargic performance as you get back into your routine. although, as you guys have been noting, Utah has had one of the more bizarre schedules as well, kind of shifting between road and home constantly and very little practice time and just kind of how they've gotten the short end of the stick. So I'm sure they won't be taking any excuses in terms of the schedule front. Cooley and Gunther. So Gunther had the two goals. Cooley had two assists. Gunther's now up to leading the team in goals and points. Coolie's up to 24 points in 29 games himself. He's got four multi-point efforts in this recent 10 game run. And my two things

stand out to Cooley because listen like Keller despite the fact that he went nearly the full month of November without scoring a goal still commends so much of the attention in play and you look in terms of players who lead the league in most time with the puck on their stick in a passes

through the slot all these things that Keller excels at he's still near the league leaders despite the scoring not necessarily being where it was last year or in years past but to my eye it seems increasingly that when I come away from watching these Utah games it feels like Logan Cooley is their best player.

And he might not be necessarily there yet, but it feels like we're starting to stack the foundation on that. And I'm glad you pointed out how a lot of the success has come from just a very simple trait of attacking the net. I think he's a guy who's considered to be more of a finesse player, right, because of the high level skill and skating ability and all of that. But what's really stuck out to me watching him this year is how assertive he's been and how he's been initiating contact and a lot of the goals he has scored. have come from just net drives and kind of being in the right place.

And the fact that he's doing that already in his second year, I'm sure the highlight real goals and the dazzling stick handling and everything is going to keep coming. But the fact that he's doing that already is such an important component of his success so far this year. Yeah, and that's why this tandem of Gunther and Cooley works so well. Because Cooley does understand he plays with a little chip on his shoulder. He's not a big guy, but he understands how to get to that area and he goes hard to the net. And you look at the Colorado game, Gunther's first goal, we all thought Cooley scored it because he drove the net and got through the blue paint. It goes off the Colorado defender and in the net.

So it wasn't Cooley's goal, but he helps create it with the disturbance in front of the net. He misses one just off to the side on a pass from Gunther down low, right near the net. This tandem is going to be what makes this team a perennial playoff team. And it might not be today. It might not be tomorrow. But a couple of years from now, you're going to be looking at Cooley and Gunther as the guy. driving this team. Make no mistake. Clayton Keller's the guy. He's still the guy. He gets two power play goals. He can shoot to score from anywhere on the ice. He does make those plays through

the seam to Schmalt. He's an unbelievable playmaker and he's going to drive the offense for a very long time. But when this team is ready for the playoffs, it's going to be Cooley and Gunther. It's funny. And I know I get in trouble for saying as I said it yesterday to Craig and Craig and Craig got all mad at me. The Cooley Gunther are the maybe the poor man's version of Taves and Kane, one American that's flashy, high skilled, can score, can make those plays. And then the Canadian that's smart, plays a 200-foot game, has the ability to provide offense, but also has that leadership in him. And I think they're going to be on the national stage for both of their teams for years

to come. And I think it's going to bring success just like Taves and Kane. Maybe not a Stanley Cup because they're not Taves and Kane. And no one ever will be. So I'm not saying they are. But I like this tandem and I like them together. And if you haven't seen Logan Cooley play, you need to be. you're really focus on what he does because he has so many little things right.

It might not be, hey, wow, what a great play. And look how flashy the spinnerama. Nobody back checks well. He lifts guys off the puck well. He drives the net well. He does all those little things really well. And that's why this team this late in the season is taking a little step. They were talking about Fire and Andre Treeney two weeks ago.

And here we are now that they're making a little bit of a playoff push. I know, I know a long way to go. But we're talking playoffs now in Utah. They're talking about, hey, maybe there's a chance. So they are getting a push. I thought I was high on this tandem and they just come in hot from the top rope. I love it. I know.

Craig being from Chicago was really like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, pump the brakes a little bit on that. Yeah, I could see him just recoiling as soon as you said that. Yeah. I was with Cooley, and this reflects what you're saying there about driving the net. Like his individual chance rate is up quite a bit this year as well. And I said, I think that's really encouraging because I think the assist are certainly, always going to be there for him with his playmaking ability. And this is a bit of an extension from last year

because we saw once Gunther called up, it really helped reinvigorate and restart Coley's year. As a rookie, right, he went through a bit of that dry spell in the middle of the season. They put those two together. They started having a lot of 5-1-6. And this year, with the two of them together on the S-F-1-5, he does winning those minutes 21 to 9.

So I think that is incredibly encouraging moving forward. The next driver that I have with the success, and we can talk more about Wemalka here in a second, although I just did a full episode, goalies with our pal Kevin Woodley on the most recent episode. So we've got to move away from the goalies for a little bit here. Michael Kesselring, who I've been talking about a lot on the show this year as one of my guys. He's up to third on the team in 5-15 usage with him on the ice in those minutes.

They're up 21 to 10. They're controlling 54% of the expected goals, high danger chances, shots, everything you look for. He had that game in Buffalo over the weekend where he has the Gordiala Hattrick within a single period. we've just seen his confidence continue to grow. He moves so well for such a big guy. He plays with such swag. I think he just has an immense amount of juice to his game with him without the puck. And you look at the position now, defense position,

515 scoring this year, he's tied for seventh most, 515 points amongst defensemen with Alex Petrangelo. The only defenseman with more primary points are Kail McCar, Quinn Hughes, and Zach Wrenski, which is quite literally the top three in everyone's Norris ballots right now. And so I think what Michael Kesselring is doing as a right shot, kind of young defenseman for a guy they're paying only $1.4 million this year and next, such an incredible

fine for them. And I feel like watching these games, I keep coming away from it being like, man, he is just making such an impact pretty much every time he's on the ice, whether it's playing with Ian Cole or whether it's the shifts that he gets with Sergachev, it feels like good things are just happening when he's out there. It's funny because when you look at Michael Kessering, he was a guy that they picked up from the Edmonton Oilers and the trade for Nick Bugstead. back in the 23 deadline when Edmondson was trying to make their playoff push

was an experienced centerman that they thought Bukestead would help get him there and they're willing to give up on a young kid and this kid's he's 24 and he goes down to the minors and you go okay he's a nice player I think he was nice down there in two and he goes okay he's okay and then he gets up in the big club and they couldn't send him down he is again you talk about Cooley and Gunther exciting to watch up front Michael Kesselring is a fun player to watch he comes in off the blue line he's very active in the offensive. He joins the rush continually, and he actually can defend.

You talked about his fight over the weekend. This is a huge find for Bill Armstrong. And I think he's going to be on their top pair or at worst case. He's a three, four for this Utah hockey club for a very long time. I don't think they're having a success from the back end. And he might not get the opportunities right now if Sean Dersie's not injured. Maybe Kesselring isn't being highlighted as much and getting the same ice time that he's getting now, but the kid deserves it. And I think, again, you start to look at how this Utah team is built with these young players that are, they're exceeding their expectations and performing well together.

This young core in Utah is exceptional and they are fun to watch. Kelsaring is a big, big part of what they're doing right now. And even Surgichab, who is the number one, clearly, ice time points, all of those things are true. He's still really young. And so this team is clicking on all cylinders and it's just, unfortunately, Unfortunately, for Utah fans, not quite their time. They're getting close, but it's just not quite their time yet. Yeah, it helps.

Vamalka certainly found his game as well, especially with Connor Ingraham banged up, right? I think after what he had done the previous couple of years, his form last year, especially as the season progressed, was a bit surprising because I thought he had just generally been quite consistent and certainly had the highs. And then last year, things went off the rails a little bit for him. He's gotten the opportunity. Now he's played well. I know you've been kind of making a point of how he settled his game down quite. of it. Neither of us are goalie technicians necessarily, but it's very visible to the eye that he's getting out of position way less frequently. He's actually kind of just like staying in his net

and letting the game come to him. And so he's got a 9-18 save percentage plus eight goals he above expected in 16 games. And it's great timing both for the organization, but also for him personally, right? He's a 28-year-old impending UFA. And so we'll see how the next couple months go for Utah. But I'm sure he's going to generate a lot of interest because he's got a very low cap hit. and he's shown last year, notwithstanding that he's been a good goalie in the league for a couple years now, right? So I think the fact that he's playing at this level as well helps matters,

and I think it's an interesting subplod to kind of keep track of moving forward. Yeah, there's a conundrum coming in Utah and their goaltending. There really is. And Carolec was one that I thought would be expendable because Conor Ingram was so good last year. I thought he deserved to be in the All-Star game last year. He didn't come out as a spot this season, a little more inconsistent.

And Vermelka got back to the formula two years ago when he was really an unusual. known player in this league. They drafted some goalies back in 2023. You've got Michael Grabel. I like saying that name, by the way. Melker Thieland and Carson Musher, three go, they're a graphic in 23.

Like, they're a long way away. So the conundrum is you've got a guy that's a UFA. It's 28 years old. Do you get the assets you think you can get for him because he's playing his best hockey of his career? Or do you go, gosh, we need someone to play between the pipes for the next two to three years. Can it be Vamalka?

And honestly, this is a tough decision that I don't think. they were anticipating they would have to make because I thought they thought at the management level that Conner Ringman was going to take that next step forward again and for Malcolm might be expendable. But right now the way he's playing, he's not. So it'll be a hard decision come trade deadline time for this Utah hockey club and general manager, Bill Armstrong. Well, I assume that the next whatever, I don't know how many games are left between now and the trade deadline, I assume like 20ish or so. I think that'll probably determine the direction quite a quite a bit here, but I'm very curious to track this team until then, right? Because after this run,

they're up to 17th in the league in point percentages. They're 16th and goal differential. They're kind of right on that playoff line. Dom Lusitian's model at the athletic has them up to 31% playoff probability, which is a nice little spike. There are two points back of Calgary with a game in hand. The issue for them, and it's something that we've bumped into pretty much since like early November is that despite the fact that there's a few teams like the Oilers although they've certainly righted the ship

here recently and the avalanche are hanging lower than we'd expect in the standings at least in the West it feels like the top eight teams and Calgary's obviously been a bit of a disruptor there although they got it handed to them by the lightning on Thursday night as we said it feels like those eight teams are not necessarily

cemented but I feel pretty good about the fact that despite the fact that it's only December 13th and there's still 50 games left in the regular season for everyone to play. It feels like it probably will be those eight teams in some order, right? That being Minnesota, Winnipeg and Dallas in the central, Vegas, LA, Vancouver, and the Pacific. And then Edmonton and Colorado currently is the two wild card combatants,

but probably might rise into top three inner divisions as well. And so with those eight teams, it's going to be a pretty tricky situation for not only the Utah Hockey Club, but Seattle, who's been playing better recently, St. Louis and Calgary will keep kind of hanging around. Regardless of how many points you stack up, it's just going to be tough to kind of leapfrog those teams. And I think that's the tricky spa you get into here,

where there's just, it's such a glut of teams, and it's going to be really tough to elevate yourself beyond that. Yeah, and it's funny because when you're sitting in the coaches room, and you're sitting here, your Utah, you're St. Louis, you're Seattle, you're looking at the standings and you go, okay, we're two points out. We're four points out. It's only two wins.

The problem is it's not the two wins. it's not the four points. It's the teams you have to get over to get in. And when you're looking at Utah is a perfect example. You're right there. But who's coming out? Like, you think Colorado's going to slide out of the playoffs now that they're bringing Blackwood in

and they think they've got their goaltending solved and they're getting healthier. I don't know. I don't think Colorado sliding out. Vancouver is another team that's right there, but they've got six wins in their last 10 games and regulation. Calgary was one hot start. And you go, okay, Calgary's right there.

But now they're starting to slide. They got three wins in their last 10 in regulation. It's not good enough. Like if you want to make a playoff push in the Western Conference, you are going to have to win six or seven games in regulation out of 10 games until the end of the season. And that's an incredible feat. So I think Utah's got to look at this. Specifically, Utah's got to look at this.

Hey, we're going to play meaningful games. We're getting better. And that's good enough. There's only one team, and maybe I'm way wrong on this, one team in the West that might make a push. And that's St. Louis. I think the Jim Montgomery little, the coaching bump, I think, has really helped them. And I think St. Louis is the team that that's coming from the way down there and trying to jump over several teams. I don't see Seattle.

I don't think Calgary's going to be there. I'm sorry. And Utah, the only team I see making a push of St. Louis. And I still think they're going to fall short. I think as of now, December 13th, I think you've got your eight teams in the Western Conference, barring severe injuries to either a top player or a goaltender. I think these are the eight teams making the playoffs in the West. Yeah, I do as well. I can't get there with St. Louis. I'll concede that they've played much better, especially offensively, since Jim Montgomery took over and it makes sense because as I think you and I spoke about at the time he was fired by the Bruins, I believe in him. In that regard, the betting market agrees with me where despite the fact that all four of those teams, Utah, Seattle, Calgary and St. Louis are all within 30 to 33 points. Right now, Utah's plus 172 to make the playoffs, whereas St. Louis, for example, is plus 500. So I think that's sort of, of reflecting of how big of a hill they have to climb.

I think the East is kind of interesting too in that regard, right? Because I think it's pretty solidified, especially in terms of the top three in each division. The Rangers slide has opened door a little bit here. I think Boston, despite the fact that they had that coaching bump themselves, the past two games, they've played out West. They've been outscored 13 to 2 by the Jets and the Cracken. I'm still very skeptical about their true talent level, especially offensively, being able to create enough to keep up with some of these teams.

So whether it's Philly or the Islanders or the senators who've been playing better, I think there is a potential playoff spot there to be had for a team that hasn't been in previously. And so that'll be a fun subplot to follow. But it is, the games have been really fun. And I think it's as wide open as it's ever been, especially at the top of the league. But with that being said, from like a playoff uncertainty perspective, it feels like we probably have somewhere between 14 to 16 of the playoff teams already solidified. less than halfway through the season.

So I think that'll be an interesting thing to see if anything could possibly disrupt that. Yeah, it's funny. And the East is different. And it's different this year because I still think, when I look at the Boston Bruins, I think that's a team that overachieved a year ago. I think they were better in the standings than they were actually on paper. And I think that is when everybody looking at it in this year, they're going, oh my gosh, they took a huge step backwards.

Actually, they took a step backward last year. They just, they just, you know, went above the bar and what they were expected to do. So I think they're a team that right now is just hanging on. And I'm not convinced that the Boston Roins are making the playoffs. I think that the Marchan playing better is great for them. I think that might help get them in because he's a great leader and he's putting points on the board. And that's all good and well. Toronto, Florida, you're in.

Washington's a team. I still can't believe they're there. But with the way Protis is playing and McMichael, that seems better. Like, they're fun. They're fast. They push themselves much better than what their early expectations are. Tampa's teetering. It's still Tampa.

they still, they're still strong enough. They still got a great goal tender. That's a really good hockey team. But now it's up for grabs. The Rangers, if the Rangers don't write the ship. And I mean, I don't know how they do it. If your boss stirs it up that much in your office, whether you work in an accounting firm or in the NHL team,

he goes in and drops a bomb like that. It's hard to perform. I don't know how happy guys are going to work right now. That's a team that I thought was going to be on the precipice of winning the east again. And they're a disaster. So there is an absolute possibility that even with Shasturkin signing that this Ranger team just drops. Wouldn't surprise me at all. Now they have the money to fix it, but can they fix the attitude in the room?

I don't know. Philadelphia, Islanders. I don't think Pittsburgh's there in Ottawa are all fighting for that last spot. Yeah, they could get in. They could get in on that eight spot. I think the eight spot is absolutely up for grabs in the Eastern Conference more so than it has been in a very, very long time. It is. I actually like, I mean, I can't quit.

Philly. I understand how they are in so many ways, but they're playing really hard. They are never out of it. And they have a lot of things working in their favor, and they're right there right now. So I don't know, it'll be fascinating.

I actually like Philly and Ottawa quite a bit out of that group, but I think this is going to segue neatly into our next conversation about rebuilding, how difficult it is to take that next step in particular, right? Because especially you watch some of these games. And I find that the marker in today's game between or the delineation between good and bad teams is very thin. Like often it comes down to one or two kind of plays over the course of a game particularly

late and the good teams stay good because they find a way to win those games and the bad team stay bad because through a variety of comedy of errors, they find a way to just blow it time and time again. And so taking that next step from being a bad team to a good team is incredibly difficult. And so I'm curious to see if someone can take that leap. I think it makes the fact that teams like the Sabres and Red Wings were 26 and 27, the league in point percentage right now. And I think just one point ahead of Montreal, who's not very good at all,

makes it even more disappointing because it actually is a bit of an opening here with Boston struggling. And so the fact that they couldn't seize that remains very, very disappointing. All right, P. Let's take our break here. And then we come back. We're going to finish strong. We're going to talk a little bit about rebuilding. We've got a few questions from the PDO.

Discord as well to get into. You're listening to the Hockey P.D. Ocast streaming on the SportsNet Radio Network. All right. We're back here on the Hockey Peeley. Let's get into the Discord mailbag. So Adam asks, when considering hiring a first time an HL head coach, what are some green and red flags you're looking at?

The ducks have not had success doing it with Dallas Aiken's who obviously had the gig in Edmonton before, but was still a relatively young and experienced coach. and then Greg Cronin more recently, despite both having solid 10 years in the HL as head coaches prior to that. Would you prefer someone who is coming from being an assistant coach on an NHL team or a head coach at a lower level and how much would you value or prioritize having had playoff success at those previous stops as a factor in your decision? Now, I don't know how many years you spent with a Cody's organization.

It was a long time. It was a lifetime, basically. And I believe you went through, what, seven NHL head coaches during that time. So you've certainly gotten your fair share experience dealing with various hirings and personalities and skill sets and all of that. How do you feel about this question? Because I certainly think, obviously, for a rebuilding young team, nailing the draft picks up top is incredibly important.

I think it's probably the most important differentiator, right? Sometimes you just get lucky. You get the first overall pick. And it winds up being a player who comes in immediately, like Backland Celebrating in San Jose. And from day one, just totally revitalizes and rejuvenates your entire organization. Some years, it doesn't work out that way. I think there's certain things rebuilding teams can do from leveraging assets and getting more draft picks and reclamation projects and all that that is a differentiator. But ultimately, actually getting a head coach who can allow those young players then to develop and succeed in real time at the professional level is so important.

And I feel like this is something we see bad teams continue to mess up. and then wind up having to, we just saw the Blackhawks, fire Luke Richardson, bringing a new coach, you see that time and time again, this kind of churn and sort of carousel that we see

with NHL head coaches. What are you prioritizing? What are you looking at? What do you think you need to do as an NHL bench boss to be successful in today's game? This is a really good question. It's a really hard question to answer

because everybody in every situation is different. And when I look at, I like the idea of bringing a new blood into the NHL. I like the idea of getting guys from juniors and getting guys from college. And look at Chris Knoblock. Chris Knoblock goes and wins in the CHL, in the OHL. He gets a couple of championship. He wins. Then all of a sudden, he gets the NHL and he's a genius. He didn't have that experience in the NHL. He just did things the right way. I think he's a good coach. I think he's a good people person. And he fit on the team at the right time. He was the right guy.

Jim Montgomery from college, right guy, right time. Won a national championship at Denver. He won. He won. The question said about winning, John Cooper won it literally ever at every level he coached at. And that means something. He won in the NOL. He won in the HAL, the U.S.HL.

And ultimately in the national hockey league, I think winning is important, but it's not everything. The problem now with coaching in the NHL, I just talked to an assistant coach that I used to work with this morning. We were talking about this. And we were talking about Mike Babcock. And Mike Babcock gets the job.

in Columbus. And I don't know any hockey people that I've talked to that said, man, that's a great idea. Let's bring Mike Babcock in. Let's bring that style of coach. Let's bring that guy back into this league. I don't know anybody. So I don't know if I don't know where that process came from. And to me it's like, okay. It was a point of desperation, I think, from the Lou Jackets organization. For sure. But that brings up this next point because you're trying to get, you go, hey, we've been too nice to the players. Let's bring in a little bit tougher. That's what happened in Anaheim. Dallas Eakins is a guy that players coach, guys like them. It was maybe a little soft. That's what happened to Toronto. It's nice. Sheldon keeps playing music at practice. Everything's nice. We're going to bring in somebody different.

And Greg Cronin is definitely different. He's old school. He's hard nose. And I don't know if that kind of coach works anymore in the National Hockey League. I've said this before over and over again. You can't coach like that anymore. You have to evolve with the players. The players today want a guy that can pat him on the back,

that can communicate with them, that can still do X's and O's. They want that hybrid coach. And you look at Rick Bonus. Rick Bonus was a guy, and I worked with Rick Bonus. Rick Bonus is a yellow screamer. Make no mistake about it. When he was in Arizona, when he was in Winnipeg to start his career, he was tough.

Man, he was a hard-nosed player and he was a hard-nosed coach. But he evolved. He evolved to be that guy that everybody in the room liked and respected and could coach X-N-O's. And then he goes on to have the great success he had both in Winnipeg and in Dallas. And I think you need to adjust that style of coach. So it's not just, as he an American. guy, is he a college guy?

I think you need to have this special skill set of you got to have charisma and you got to have that little arrogance. You know, I think you're going to have that to be a successful coach. I think the background of winning helps, but I think you need to have the relationship with the players. I think that's more important than anything right now in today's game. You need to have that trust and that relationship that you can communicate with your players. Especially with the league getting so much younger as it has over the past.

however many years, I find that that sort of barrier of worrying about like your head coach being younger than your players and not being able to command their respect is just not really an issue anymore. In fact, if anything with how young some of these teams are and how much of the success for them and the play drivers are very young players in their early 20s, I find that the idea of going either the NCAA route or even major junior, which we very rarely see, and opening up the talent pool and not necessarily limiting yourself to just the same 35 NHL coaches that have just been being recycled and on this carousel, I think I find much more appealing just because they're already going to be able to, through their experience, communicate

with, interact with, be comfortable with just a different age group, right? There's not going to be that sort of divide that might exist for an older coach that just, not the games pass them by, but they're just like they're not equipped, I guess, to deal with the current state. And that's what I find, I find so, I don't know, I was going to say interesting, but I find frustrating tracking the ducks this year in Greg Cronin because I think we've certainly heard a lot about how there's been a major impasse between him and the players in terms of just philosophy and communication and the way that's sort of that, that relationship has been deteriorating. And then you see what's happening on the ice where they're the worst 5-1-5 team in the league yet again. They're 30-second in offense and 30-second in defense. and it's not reflected by goals against because Lucas Dostal has been amazing, but in terms of shots, chances, expect the goals, everything.

They're the worst defensive team in the league yet again. You look at the usage, their top three players this year in 5-1-5 Ice Time are Jacob Truba since arriving in the three games he's played, Brian Dumlin and Cam Fowler. You're seeing the only players being punished are young defensemen like Pavel Minchikov and Olin Zellweger and Jackson-Lacom who are sort of alternating as healthy scratches. We've seen young players like Mason McTavish, who only has two. two primary points of 5-15 this season, regress and take major steps back in their development.

And that would be an incredibly alarming development this year for me if I were Pat Rebeke and I were running Vanaheim Ducks. Like it's one thing as we've talked about to lose, it's another to not be competitive and to show stagnation and even regression from young players who should be getting better and better with each passing game and instead are on a worse off spot this year than they were last year or even two years ago.

So I don't know. The ducks are driving me up the wall right now because you watch that game they play earlier this week in in Ottawa where they get absolutely shellacked. And it's just an embarrassing effort in performance. And I feel like if I were an HLGM, that would be one thing that I simply would not abide by. Yeah, I don't know how long this can last there. Now are they going to get near the bottom being the top overall draft picks spot for next year and that's good enough. I'll make the bold, Cronin won't be behind the bench to start next season. There's no chance.

Like he has proven he can't. This team is all young players. Like Anna, when you look across this roster, this is a young team that needs to be patted on the back, stroked, coddled, and get the most out of these young players development-wise. They're going to lose games. They're not good enough. They're going to lose, but be competitive.

Play hard. Show something. And these skilled players, it's disappointing to watch his team play. And I'll go to watch Gibson play the other night. I like John Gibson a lot. I feel terrible that he's on another bad team again in his career. But you just watch, I watch him make a save and he stayed on the ice. Like his knees stayed down.

His shoulders were just shrugged. It's like, I don't know if I even care anymore. And I think that permeates through the room. And this is a mess. It's a mess. And you talk about Truba coming to the team. How does that fit? I was talking to somebody like, where does Jacob Truba fit?

Well, he's still only, you know, 30 years old. And he gets so, oh, he doesn't fit in Anaheim. They have that. Isn't Goudis that? Like you need a young, fast puck-moving defensemen that can grow with guys like, like Terry, Terry and Leo Carlson and Mason McTavish and Carter Gautier. You need that. You need that. And that's where this team can finally be successful. So I'm not sure if I'm pointing at the head coach, I might be pointing at the GM that hire the head coach that thought that was a great idea.

And I'm starting to wonder how long that leash and how long that leash is going to be in for Pepper Beach, too, because this, to me, this is a big swing and a miss at a head coach. I think you'll probably see him ride it out for the rest of this year, and you'll just see this team flounder and continue to fall. But I can't imagine he'll be behind the bench next year. And I don't know where Pat Fabik sits on this team. It's a team in absolute disarray. Well, especially when you bring in Truba and then you just add another veteran defenseman. And I get I just said the 30 second in all these defensive metrics,

but then you're doing so and taking away valuable minutes from young defenders who just need to be out there getting reps instead and just sitting in the press box. And so that's very frustrating for me. You know, I think there's certain things, obviously, you just can't control as a coach, right? Execution. Like you can put your players in a position to do stuff in terms of practice and in terms of X's and O's and everything,

but ultimately if, you know, they're not covering their guy, they're not putting the puck in the net. You can't control that as a coach, right? What I do look at, though, is preparation in terms of, like, how you're starting games, how you respond to not only defeat, but maybe a subpar performance in terms of effort, because obviously there's going to be all sorts of peaks and valleys

over the course of an 82 game season. And an example that I thought of in thinking about that was Spencer Carberry, who right now is the league leader in Jack Adams, in terms of the market and in terms of I think everyone's sort of vote where that's headed. You look at the job he's done, and obviously they made a bunch of personnel moves. This offseason, they brought in a bunch more talent.

They're scoring a ton. that's all well and good. But there was this sequence where they had a home game against the Sharks, I think it was last week. And by their standards, it was a pretty subpar performance. And I think they even said as much after the game, they weren't happy with their effort as that game progressed. They really kind of faltered. San Jose took over and wound up winning in overtime. They had a couple days off.

Next game, they are on the road in Toronto. And it was just a remarkable effort, in my opinion. Like they were just on top of it. They were winning every battle. They were quick to the puck. They were executing. they wind up winning that game in a tough environment. And that's exactly what I'm talking about when I evaluate coaches, right?

Like Spencer Carberry has done such a good job of motivating this year and of pushing all the right buttons, pulling all the right strings. And so I think all of the accolades he's gone regardless of whatever other stuff is going on, I think he deserves. And that's exactly what I want from my head coach. I think that is something we can sort of from the outside without being privy to the locker room conversations and, you know, meetings with assistant coaches and everything. I think that is one thing that we can kind of neatly trace from the outside to point to what the coach is doing and the impact they're having on the team. Yeah, there's something special going on here. And a couple of things come up when you talk about Washington.

So last year, this was a slow team. They looked old and you go, okay, they're just trying to get Ovecchkin the record. That's their sole mission in life. This is not a playoff team. Well, they go at Alexi Proto. Connor McMichael is playing phenomenally well. This team right now believes. and when a team believes, they're dangerous.

I've talked to people around the organization, and I've got some friends inside that they said, just watch us. We're special this year. And I didn't believe them. But they believe in when a coach gets a team to believe they can win. When you're not fighting with your team, when you're going along with your team,

that you want to do things for your coach, not just to show, hey, I can keep my ice time, but hey, I want to do this for you. You're a part of what we're trying to do. And Spencer Carberry has absolutely created that. But one of the things when you look through Carberry's history, he's been a head coach everywhere. And that's one of the differences that I do think is important when we talk about just coaches specifically

is that they've had that head coaching experience instead of just being a lifetime assistant in the national hockey league because it's different. Your communication with the player is different. Your role with the player is different. Your day-to-day roles are incredibly different in what you're doing. And you need that gravitas that you get from being a head coach. And that's what I think Spencer Carberry is bringing to Washington. And hey, if Ovechkin comes back way soon or something,

than they thought and they continue to get the goal tending that they're getting from both of their tandem with Thompson and Lingren. This is a fun team to watch it and it goes back to who's standing behind the bench. I do think that's a big part of what's happening in Washington. Yeah. And they bring in all this new personnel. One thing they did do is change their approach as well to accommodate it.

I think sometimes where you see coaches fail is it's their way or the highway in terms of like their team regardless of the personnel always has to play a certain way and if they have the right players to accommodate that, they'll be successful. But as soon as you start changing the personnel and you don't have the right guys for it, they can't adjust to that. And we've already seen Spencer Carberry like last year because of the players they had, they had to play much slower or lower event hockey. They had to grind out wins and rely on their goaltending. They make the playoffs. They obviously weren't satisfied with that though because they're pretty

fortunate to do so. And so they go out and bring all these guys who actually have offensive ability and can skate. They're much deeper and more talented. And now they're attacking way more off the rush. They're creating so much more offensively and they have a coach that's allowed them to do so. Now he, to your point, he did have some assistant reps as well in the NHL

with the Toronto Maple Leafs Bowl was a head coach previously. And I'm fascinated by this general coaching tree that we've seen here from the South Carolina Stingrays in the ECHL because now that's Jared Bednar and then it was Spencer Carberry and then it's Ryan Rorsowski

with the San Jose Sharks and all three guys spend time there as head coaches and running the hockey ops. And I think all three, obviously, Benner has been established for a long, long time now. But we've seen Carberry two years in Washington here. Early returns on Wersowski and how he has the sharks play, I think are incredibly encouraging as well. And so it's more of an NFL concept because generally we see like a head coach who has his offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, then those guys go on a jobs and we establish these sort of coaching trees. But in this case, I find this South Carolina Stingray's coaching tree to be a fascinating subplot this season.

It is funny, but you talk about the management part of it, and I do think that that's a huge piece of this. I think people need to realize that an NHL head coach is not just a head coach. He's the guy picking when, he's the guy that decides when the plane leaves, what the meals are, when the meals are, when we travel, when we practice, when we don't practice. Like, he is managing a lot of things. And I think it's incredibly important that you have that experience.

And also when you come from college, the college game isn't the NHL game. You play twice a week on Friday, Saturday. Your day is different. Your week is different. Your prep is different. And I think that's where some guys that come right from college that didn't play in the NHL or didn't have that NHL experience might have a little trouble. But I want to go back to one thing you said.

It's about coaches coaching to who they have on the ice and the team that they have. And that's what Spencer Carberry did. I worked for Dave Tippett in Arizona. We had a really bad hockey team, a really bad hockey team. And he coached defense first. And if we're going to win, we're going to win one, nothing because we're not very good. We don't have guys that can score. We're going to defend.

and he became now Dave Tippett's a defensive coach. Well, he goes to Edmonton, and he has, now he has McDavid and Drysidal putting up numbers. Like, you've seen them put up for years. Dave Tippett was no longer defensive coach because he didn't have a defensive team. He's got an offensive team. Yes, he can coach offensive because he's got offensive guys. And I sat and had lunch with him after, after he got fired, and Jay Woodcroft got in. And I like Jay.

I think Jay is a good coach. He's a good teacher. He was great in the American League. But Dave Tippett said it's the same team. Like, he's got the same team with the same problems. There was a defensive issue there. there's a goal tending issue. And he said, I'm not sure that they're going to be able to get out of it just by changing a coach.

And again, it goes back to the coach has to change to the people he has. But once you have the people you have, that's your team. Chicago, oh, they're all excited about Sorensen and we're going to change the system. They beat the Rangers. It's still the same team. Like, I think they're going to be more offensive. I think they're going to take more chances. Ultimately, it's the same team.

And I'm not sure that the coach can make that big of a difference instantly of the exact same players. I hope that point made sense. No, it does. But to that point... I think you need to evolve. Yeah, I completely agree. But to that point, I look at the Ducks and certainly not a contender or even a playoff team, I don't think they should be 30-second in like every single metric we care about, though.

Like, I think there's enough talent on that team. Agreed. Over the past couple years, it's been developing that they should be taking strides. And I think they should be at a different point in their organizational arc than they are. But it feels like they're just taking steps back. And you look at that and it's like, that's one thing. you just cannot afford to do because now you're just essentially restarting the cycle. And you also talk about, I think you get into danger because I get why you kind of want to wait

till the off season to have more time to conduct like a full search to kind of start from scratch and go from there. But I think all of these reps now in terms of like benching young players and guys struggling and floundering, you can develop nasty habits along the way as well and waste very valuable weeks and months of NHL reps for some of these guys that just aren't getting it right now. And so I'm very curious to see what the ducks wind up doing there. All right, PD, we got to get out of here. That's all the time we have for today. Unfortunately, I ran so long with Kevin Woodley that for our radio commitments here, we can't do the usual 50 minutes.

So we'll have to bill for that. Yes, exactly. Oh, man, when I wind him up, he gets going. But no, it was a fun. I know. All right, I'll let you plug some stuff. Let the listeners know where they can check you out while you've been working on. Tell them all that good stuff.

Yeah, I work for the Allcity Network. Just go to Allcity Network.com and find out all of the shows that I'm on. I'm a bunch of shows across North America. And then follow me on Twitter at S. Peters Hockey. I'm starting to do a little more teaching stuff, some beginner teaching stuff and trying to help people understand the game of hockey. I want to see you start doing videos after every goalie interference review. I know we spent a lot of time talking about this last time,

so I didn't want to wind you up again on it. but it feels like every night there's another instance. No, chance. I'm texting you and being like, all right, what did the guy do wrong here? And you're like, I'm not sure. Oh, I'm done. I'm done with goal interference. And just stop it.

And I want to get Woodley talking about the reverse VH too. Because I know he's, he and I hate butted heads about that too. Well, when you bring him on, he'll be like, nope, that was the right call. That was definitely goal interference. You will always defend the goalie union. All right, PD, this was a blast. It was great to have you on. As always, we'll have you on a couple Fridays from now and keep the good times going.

Thank you to everyone for listening to us. If you want to help us out, go smash the five-star button wherever you listen to the show. Leave us a nice little review. That's the final show of the week for us. We're going to be back Sunday night with our usual Sunday special with Thomas Drans. Hope everyone has a great weekend. And thank you for listening to the Hockey Ocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.