The Hockey PDOcast - What the Canucks Did in Game 5 To Give the Oilers Trouble

Episode Date: May 17, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Harman Dayal to take a closer look at what the Canucks did in Game 5 to get an edge on the Oilers, the job they’ve done defending Connor McDavid, Ekholm’s importance to the entire operation atop Edmonton’s lineup, what to look for in Game 6. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Demetri Filippovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Harmon Dylem. What's going on on this lovely Friday afternoon? Buzzin after that playoff game. That was unbelievable atmosphere in the rink itself. And then afterward, I crushed McDavid tape till 5.30 in the morning for an article to see why he was struggling, how the connects were able to contain him.

I feel like an absolute sicko. I love it. Well, that's what we do here. When you started that sentence and you were like, after the game, I crushed a bunch of McDonald. I can't believe it didn't end with Arnold. That you won't end it with McDavid. I thought you're going to go that other way. But I'm glad we're having you on here. It was a chaotic game. It was a chaotic game. I thought certainly a lot happening. Very high event, a dramatic finish. I thought all of that in total was very fitting for this series and what we've seen so far. And so you and I here, to close out the week, are going to reflect on the game we saw on Thursday night. We're going to break it all down and get into all that good stuff. kind of how it happened. Let me start off with this. Because I think it generally, I found this postseason, I've been keeping track of scoring chances for every one of these games. I do find they're generally very reflective of what we're seeing and kind of capture the eye test. But I think for this series in particular, it tells such a neat story. Game one, 19 to 14 for Vancouver. That was a game where I think people will remember, they fell down 4-1. But even when they were trailing, they had that late comeback and scored a bunch of goals in close succession and won. Even when

they were trailing though, it felt like they were the better team in that game. They were kind of controlling the environment, how it was being played, the pace. It was all in their favor. Game two, Edmonton bounced back 25 to 15. Game three, 20 to 14. The Canucks were able to win that game because they scored 11 or they scored four goals on 15 shots against Stuart Skinner and essentially chased him from this series. Game four, 21 to 12, Edmonton. The Canucks didn't really generate anything for the first two periods in Calvin Pickers' first appearance and kind of let him off the hook, I thought, and we're going to get into that more here later. Game 5, 25 to 10 Vancouver.

About as dominant as a performance as you're going to see in this setting. I think certainly, I know there was that one Nashville game, right, where Nashville got the lead that went into defensive shell and the shot attempts were ridiculously one-sided. But I think if you look at the quality of chances, this was Vancouver's most impressive and dominant performance this postseason that I've seen. So let's get into how they did it and kind of what the driving forces were.

You talked about what they did in McDavid. I think that's a neat entry point for us in terms of of the Miller-McDavid matchup, give me all the goods in terms of what you saw in the tape, what you think is happening in that matchup, and why it matters the way it does. Yeah, so one of the biggest differences I thought in this game was especially from the second period onward.

It felt like the Canucks 4-check finally got established, plus their own exits were cleaner. Now, that's an area where it created an environment more conducive to forcing McDavid to defend a little bit more and controlling more puck possession. It felt like, for his own, example, game two, the one game that McDavid took the series over at 5-1-5, like we think of McDavid as this unbelievable rush weapon. And of course, we know he has a speed, but when

him and Drysettled played together in that game two and sort of took over against that Miller line, it was also that they dominated off the forecheck, that they forced turnovers, that they won wall battles. And once they got set up in the offensive zone, the Canucks, defended in a very passive way where I think the thought process for them was, we'll let you have the space on the perimeter. We're just going to try and protect the house. The problem with that is you're never going to create a change of possession if you don't pressure them.

And so what would happen is McDavid and Drysettle would essentially play keep-away, tire them out, continue wheeling around the zone, and by the time the Canucks got tired, then they'd make their move to attack into the slot. So I think, and J.T. Miller reflected on this after the game, I think a big part of it was a mentality shift to almost say we're giving McDavid a little bit too much respect and we need to be on the front foot a little bit more. We need to be applying more pressure. We need to, on our exits as well, be a lot cleaner. And that's where I think

banker's defensemen were more poised. I asked Rick Tocket why he thought the breakouts were a lot better just generally for that team or for that game. And he pointed out that they gave their players a video presentation and made some tweaks because in games three and four it felt like whenever they tried to go up the wall Edmonton's defensemen were just pinching up the boards keeping those plays alive so I think exits being cleaner even the forwards coming back wingers and centermen to support there I think it allowed them to break out more cleanly so that they weren't getting hemmed in in the first place and then from there exits and forecheck are so well connected because think about it like if you struggle to break the puck out once or chances are by the time you finally get it out of the zone, your guys are gassed, you need to get a change,

you're just high flipping it, or you're getting through the red line, tipping it in, and your forwards are automatically going for a change. Whereas if you make that first clean exit, all of a sudden you've got fresh lags, you've got some speed coming through the neutral zone, now you can make it difficult for their defensemen to break the puck out.

And that's where I think, for Matias Ekom and Evan Bouchard, it was their most challenging game in terms of zone exits, well. So I think it starts with exits for check, forcing McDavid to spend more time without the puck. Certainly. Yeah, I think that you put that really well. It's you establish kind of like a downhill momentum, right? If you start moving in the right direction and everyone's kind of cleanly doing so in unified fashion, all of a sudden it feeds into everything you do after that as opposed to if you're

playing from behind, all of a sudden, not only is your shift going to be less effective, but then the players coming on are in a more kind of disadvantage, advantageous position themselves. right and that's kind of what you see of that so for the series through these five games we've seen 4722 head to head at 5-15 between macdavid and miller and the canucks are up to nothing in those minutes by comparison the oilers are up four two in macdavits 45 and a half minutes away from miller and while i completely agree with you that there's so many moving parts here and you need to apply all that context of how the defensemen are playing unison with this how the breakout and four check tie together. At the end of the day, the thing that I love about the postseason is it's much

easier to kind of latch onto and identify to these sort of head-to-head matchups because we see it time and time again and teams make such an emphasis of matching one player that they want in that matchup against the other teams best. And we're seeing that here. And I think the job J.T. Miller has done throughout this postseason entirely, but particularly in the series given the assignment and the responsibilities involved, has been absolutely Herkulean, in my opinion, right? And this is a player that I've been critical of in the past. I think he's delivered full marks the absolute best version of whatever ideal you ever thought of what he could be as a player. And the fact that he's doing this all defensively and limiting McDavid the way he has and making life difficult for him,

you're never going to stop him, right? We always say that. McDavid still, you defend him well. He's going to burst through and create a chance out of nothing. That's still happening. But they haven't scored a 5-1-5 in that matchup. And part of that is the defensive stuff. And then what Miller's doing on the other end, which is still creating a bunch where he's got the two goals, he's got four primary assists, he's creating a bunch of scoring chances for Besser and Souter and everyone he shares the ice with. I just can't stop raving enough about the job he's done and kind of how all of this and the success the Canucks are having sort of doesn't begin and end with him, but certainly begins with it. And it's so remarkable to think that he's in this position given the discourse

around him 18 months ago where from a two-way perspective, we were wondering if J.T. Miller could flat out stick as a centerman. Like that was a legit narrative where he looked a lot better on the wall. He would turn a lot of pox over, very loosey-goosey. Defensively, there would be a lot of those. I mean, Hockey Night in Canada ran, I think, a package around maybe December of, not this season, last season, where he turned pox over, wouldn't back check, and it would result in goals against.

And I think Rick Tock had coming in, first and foremost, just raised the entire standards for the team as whole that we've got to eliminate these bad habits from our team. And I also spoke to Miller around the start of the season. It was after, I think, the first two games of the year where he'd already, Vancouver's first two games were against Edmonton, he did a pretty effective job in that role and asked him, like, ever since Talk it took over, you've drastically cut down your turnovers. You're checking way more ferociously, like what's changed? And one of the main things that he brought up was almost the mental side of the game where

there was a frustration of being in a losing environment and constantly chasing the game, he felt like he was forcing play. So off entries, he's trying to make that home run play instead of playing more responsibly, playing within himself. And when he would turn those pucks over, he didn't really know how to manage his emotions

and he would say, frankly, I would just shut off. And I think the team environment improving, the culture being revamped, being part of a winning product has really helped him take that next step. And so when I watch him head to head against McDavid in these playoffs so far. I mean, a few things stand out.

First off, he stayed above the puck as consistently as possible. He's really reduced his turnovers. And that's another huge thing from last night's game is, A, they didn't turn pox over with McDavid on the ice. And even the winning goal that Miller had, he lavished praise on Lindholm, where Lindholm had an opportunity where he could have made a hope pass to Miller on the back door.

But McDavid was sort of right there waiting to take. off if he was able to steal the puck and Miller said Lindholm deserves all the credit for that goal because he was patient enough to not make that whole pass and take that risk to let McDavid go back the other way so puck management then also just not diving in on the forecheck and that's something that's not just on Miller but that line as as a whole has done a terrific job of applying pressure and Souter and Besser also deserve so much credit for what they've done defensively to support Miller in this role. It's been a terrific job by the entire line.

And sorry, one more thing I remembered, I wanted to bring up about Miller against McDavid. He runs so much subtle interference without getting caught. That's playoff hockey. It is, right? But that's an art, right? If you can do that without getting caught, you may as well do it. And of course, McDavid did get a soft penalty call on Joshua's interference in the second period. But Miller, it's always astounded to me throughout the regular season.

playoffs, how much clutching and grabbing he knows he can get away with without getting called for a penalty? It's, it's an art at this point. It's not as much clutching and grabbing as kind of like subtle disruptions, right? It's like you, you like, you hit him off of his, off of his stride so that he has to just by nature, like absorb that contact to the point where he kind of slows down and then it almost evens the playing field a little bit. It makes him a bit more mortal, right? I know it's, I know it's been driving Oilers fans absolutely up the wall, but the reality is that's the postseason. Like every team is doing it, right? I think it's particularly evident off of draws in particular, right?

I think even like the opening draw of last night's game, it's like you do the face off, the puck's gone, and then it's just like a cross check that just kind of knocks him down and it's ever so slightly. And that's never going to be called particularly off of an opening draw. So you almost know that you kind of have a free shot there. And guess what? Like that's just good business. Like taking advantage of that.

It's tricky because, you know, I don't spend too much time talking about a playoff officiating. I know fans get so upset with it and wind up wasting so much of their emotional energy, like, discussing it. I just, it's, there's, it's part of the randomness and variance of the postseason. I think what is frustrating and that ties into this is the inconsistency where, like, you could do that four or five times and it's not called. And then all of a sudden there's an even more subtle tiki-tack similar play. And that's where the refs decide that enough is enough and they're drawing the line. And it's like, all right, if you're going to call that, then call it all game. and I'm not advocating for that

because I don't like when there's that many penalties and you're stopping and starting all the time but I think some level of consistency in terms of what you're going to get away with would be nice and I think that's the issue a lot of fans have with like playoff hockey officiating Yeah it was also super weird that second period

not just the Joshua interference but also the Pedersen charging penalty and of course I've seen the rule book I know that you technically can't jump into a hit but I've never seen it called on a reverse it like that where a guy is bracing for for contact and so that's another sort of credit to the Canucks is I mean they went they went five for five on the penalty kill against

an orler's power play that is in my opinion in a couple of the players have called it as well the greatest power play of all time and there was I mean it was also like it's it's a team effort defending McDavid so you don't necessarily want to like lump it all on Miller but I I'm glad you made the point of like staying above the puck and kind of being responsible for your assignment and like prioritizing that and not losing him. And then obviously it was a bit of a sort of fortunate balance off of Pedersen's skate that wound up coming to Miller, well first off the post, but then a Miller. But you also go back and watch it. And on the other side, McDavid is always just kind of looking for that breakout and looking to kind of jump out of the zone. And he's kind of just standing there

in a defensive zone without really putting his body on anyone. And that's why Miller is able to essentially skate into that rebound and then bury it without anyone on him. And so kind of comparing the two, it's like that must be very satisfying for Miller, especially after what happened at the end of game four, right, and how he took that personally. So all that's really cool. You know, in terms of that matchup, one adjustment we did see was after the first couple of games ahead of game four, right? Chris Knoblock split up McDavid-Andreysaitle and kind of went with a more balanced approach.

And he also split up his defense pairs. We'll talk about that in a second here. But just sticking with the forwards, they went to. to that again in game five. I think in the third period, they went with a lot of loading up McDavid and Drey settled together because I think they just weren't generating anything offensively and they were kind of in desperation mode, just trying to muster its scoring chance or goal if they could to end the game. So we saw that. I wonder what you're attributing. Do you think it's just a matter of all the stuff you kind of laid out there with like the details and all of it being an

accumulation of defensive principles that led to that performance from Edmonton's top guys? Or do you think there's something more to what I'd characterize is kind of like a relatively lethargic performance by their standards right like they certainly you compare the way edmonton's top players were skating in mancouver's and and it was pretty clear one had just significantly more pep in their step and juice to their stride and we're getting a puckson we're so much more active is it a matter of like kind of this being the result i guess of giving them a crazy amount of workload earlier in the series is it what knox were doing defensively, what do you kind of attribute that to, or is it a combination of those things?

I think it's a combination of those things, absolutely, because McDavid, through the first three games, played more than 27 minutes per night, and I remember straight up asking Nobloc after, I believe it was game three, where McDavid played nearly 30 minutes, and I said, do you think this type of workload is sustainable? And No, no, we can't keep doing this. And I think some of the effects of that are certainly catching up, because as well as the Canox played from a defensive standpoint. I don't think McDavid had that same level of explosiveness out of the gates that he normally

does. Relative to his standard, of course. Of course he had moments where he had that burst and you're like, oh my God, this is kind of terrifying. But not with any sort of consistency. And you're right. It just sort of felt like there was a little bit of juice missing in his game. And the other thing that I'll point out is the few times that McDavid did get a chance to wind up through the neutral zone, of which he didn't have many of in game five.

They did a terrific job of taking away his passing options, right? So there were a few rushes where Kim McDavid has some time and space. He's being angled in such a way that maybe he doesn't have a direct path to cut to the net. So he's looking for that pass into the slot. And that's where they did a terrific job of marking Eugene Hopkins. I highlighted at least two or three plays where, like a Brock Besser, would back check and be right in the slot to calmly bat that pass out of the way or or there was a partial two-on-one chance, I believe in the second period, where

McDavid was skating up the ice and Suter comes hustling back, sort of angles McDavid to the outside, so now he can't drive to the net. McDavid's on his backhand, and Carson Suss he's right in the slot. He's able to bat a pass to New Jersey Hopkins that was intended to be for the back door out of the way. So even when McDavid found out of the way, so even when McDavid found, a way to generate some speed through the neutral zone, the other players on the ice were so attentive to their

assignments and details that McDavid just didn't have many passing options. Yeah, no, I think that's really well said. I mean, McDavid, games two and three combined played nearly 58 minutes. Dreisito played over 56 himself. And we're also in the point where there's no back-to-backs, but

this series has been very strictly every other day, right? There hasn't been any other extra off days between games, whether it's travel stuff or whether it's scheduling with rinks. Like it's been very cleanly laid out in the schedule without any extra off days. So I think that kind of there, it makes sense there would be a certain accumulation, right? When you play that much and you get that much dumped on your plate early in the series, I also don't think it's a coincidence that in game five, you look.

And I'd say the Oilers who had the most burst were like Holloway, Fogel, although as is always the case with Fogel, it's never properly challenged. like it's just, it's just energy. It's never really refined. And that's kind of frustrating. But also you could see, like, he was skating was definitely not an issue. And then the fourth line, right? And they created the goal immediately to bounce back after the Canucks first goal,

but they had a couple other chances they created and they were moving really well. And those are all the players who've played the fewest amount of minutes for the Oilers in the series, right? It's like the fourth line guys and then Fogel and Holloway. And so I think that's kind of the reality of the situation the Oilers are in. I'm not sure there's anything you do at this point. I think they have to hope that they're able to to kind of recover and bounce back because if their tank's going to be on empty

the way it looked like it was in game five, that's obviously highly concerning. At the same time though, it's McDavid-Andre's Idol, so I'm sure that that will happen. But I, just visibly, like, watching it, I think it was pretty clear that there was something going on there beyond just the stuff Canucks were doing defensively. Yeah, it's a shame to that you get a rare fourth-line goal for Edmonton, and you also get

of Ander Cain scoring, who he's nowhere near the player that he was during his first postseason run with the Oilers where he was leading the postseason in scoring for a while, and the year that they made it to the conference final, even get production from him and the fourth line,

it's like, you've got to win that game, right? That's probably only happening once or twice in a series, and when it does, that's a must to take advantage of from an Oilers perspective. And so, even if McDavid and Dry said it weren't able to be as dynamic five on five,

to me they had to find a way, like the one time they got five power play opportunities. If you're struggling five on five, you at least had to, in my opinion, find a way to take the game over on the man advantage. Get one, get two goals there. That's a major letdown to finally get that depth scoring from the forwards that's been so difficult to come by for Edmonton

and to still not convert that into a W. Yeah, I thought the first part, play they had early on was promising and they looked dangerous and they pretty much were in the offensive zone for the entirety of the two minutes and then after that it was kind of like the Canucks penalty kill really just started to play well and they really weren't even

generating much off of the opportunities they got so that was surprising. Not only did they not win I mentioned the scoring chances earlier, they were 25, 10 and as a lopsided as they've been in this series particularly in Vancouver's favor that also includes like a pretty even first period. I think they were 6-5 in the first and the Canucks came out of that down

to 1 and then the second period in third period was 19 to 5 scoring chances in Vancouver's favor. And I think you made a great point off the top about the breakouts and the struggles Edmonton's top pair had, which is uncharacteristic for them. I think we kind of know that the rest of the defense is always going to be not even hit or miss, just mostly miss. It's going to be an adventure. But I think the top pair generally carries them so much when they struggle the way they did in game five, it really kind of hammers that point home where they just almost look stuck in the mud as a team, right? They just can't get out of their zone. And then as a result of that, they're not generating offensive zone time themselves, which I don't even

know how much offensive zone they had in game five, but I imagine it was well below their usual totals. And then they're defending more in their zone. And then that starts to expose a lot of defensive zone coverage issues they have with the personnel and everything. And so you put that all together. Now, the reason why I'm bringing that up is because I think it was before the game, where in the days in between, Bob Stauffer, who I love here on the show, I always reference, kind of had a note about how Matthias Echcom wasn't feeling well, right? And I think since it's come out that he's sick, and you could see that in his usage, where I think he played like four and a half minutes in the first period.

He wound up playing 1812 total for the game. Here was Ice Times in the first four games, 23-42, 25-42, 23-46, 24-20. And he had been playing so well, too. And that's obviously not an excuse, because this is what happens, right, injuries, ailments, all sorts of stuff. You're never going to be at full health. But I think that is part of this story here, what happened in Game 5. It's he wasn't himself in terms of usage and not unable to play as usual workload. And then I think Evan Bouchard, as a result, struggled. And then when that pair is struggling and not up to their usual standards, everything winds up kind of being

exposed and crumbling around them. And I think that's kind of what happened here and why the connects were able to just like so emphatically dominate territorially the way that they did. Absolutely. He really looked gas. He looked slow, especially on defenses on retrievals. He looked a little bit awkward, even absorbing contact. I know in, I think it was game three, he got blown up by a couple of pretty heavy checks early in the game. And he looks like a player that isn't close to 100% right now. And that makes a massive difference because at the start of the series,

it felt like him and Bouchard played such an essential role on the breakout and in transition. because out of game two, all of the storylines around McDavid and Drysettled take over. And I think what got underrated in that was it was a five-man unit. It is, yeah. And with the Canucks in that game, all the attention that they'd put towards McDavid and Drysettled, slowing those guys down on entries, that's where a player like Evan Bouchard would spring a stretch pass to the weak side, or skate it in for an offense's own entry himself, or Atcombe would make a poised plan or pressure. They'd beat Vancouver's 4chek, which Vancouver's Forchek is the foundation of how it tries to control play at even strength.

That looks compromised or it at least did in game five. And that has to turn around for the Oilers to have a chance at starting to control play again. Well, you mentioned off the top how you were a sicko staying up until 5 a.m. breaking down tape. I'm going to take you one step further here. I'm going to talk about shift length here. Let's go. Usually we're talking like actual just full to ice. time totals, I'm going to break it down even further to you to illustrate that point.

So while he did play 1812, and that's particularly low given how much he played in the first four-minute, four-hort games, where it was really felt was the shift length because he played a regular amount of shifts. He played 25 shifts, but the average length was 42 seconds. And I was looking at it, and there were a bunch of them that were like 22 seconds, 25 seconds, less than 30. And I think that was by design. And where you saw it was. And I think it was actually brought up on the broadcast. There was about eight and a half minutes left in third period. Still tie game, right? The Oilers start a shift in their own zone, I believe. They wind up working it out. One of the few times they cleanly get out. Bouchard gets kind of a relatively dangerous rush shot off.

She loves, gloves it down, but it's an offensive zone draw. And they're about 25 seconds or 30 seconds into their shift. And they have McDavid, Driesaitle, Hyman, and Bouchard out. And Echolm comes off the ice and Kulak comes on instead. And ultimately it's like those four guys being out there regardless of who the fifth defenseman is, it's still a dangerous unit. But I just thought like after a 25 second shift, he in a very pivotal point in the game, he had to come off the ice. And I think that was like, all right, he's clearly, regardless of how he's looked on other plays, that's a testament to me in terms of like something going on here.

And so I kind of wanted to note that. And I think the reason why it was important was we're coming off the wake of what happened in Game 4, where Chris Knoblock finally split up his defense. defense bears, right? He got CC and Nurse apart. He started using Kulak more. The result was Nurse played 16 minutes in game four, which was about three or four minutes less than he usually plays. And now with that call, not at 100%, C.C. was back up to 19 and a half, 20 minutes in game 5 on the ice for another two five-on-five goals, which brings them up to eight five-on-five goals against in this series out of the 11 they've given up as a team. And talking about stories of the

series and what's happening here in the game within the game, I think that's another big thing here, right? Not only was that cool, I'm able to play less, but this one adjustment they've made finally after like weeks and months and particularly in the series games of their fans being like, please, Chris, do something. He finally splits them up. And then now all of a sudden, they didn't put them back together, but he had to rely on Nurse more again, and it killed them. And so it's kind of back to Square One. What frustrates me so much watching Nurse and CC play, especially early in the series when they were together as a pair, is, okay, it's one thing we accept, okay, Cody C.C.,

you don't have the poise of the puck-moving acumen to engineer clean zone exits. I can live with that. What I can't live with with Nurse and C-C is how many puck battles they lose down low in the offensive zone, given their size. Like, that's the one area where you'd think given their frame and the playoff style defenseman that, they'd break up the cycle that on defensive zone retrievals, they'd at least win their 50-50 battles

and be able to like poke a puck like three feet to a close-by teammate supporting. And in that situation, maybe you at least chip it out and like live to fight another day. But it's wild seeing like Connor Garland, for example. And I know that for the entire regular season, he's been a guy that always plays bigger than his size. But a player like that has just eaten CC and nurse alive on the forecheck. it's like there's no reality in which you should be losing battles down low. And then that's why the Oilers, they just got cycled in game five.

That also makes it more difficult environment-wise for a player like Ekholm, because what happens is when the other defensemen finally get possession, they've been hem for a while, all they're going to do is they can't get it past the red line, 200 feet to the Canucks Zone. They're just going to flip it, try and desperate. get a change and now a player like Ekholm, who's already kind of gassed, he's stepping on the ice in a situation where the conucks are already straight coming back down, down Edmonton's throat. There's no chance to catch your breath or get settled. It creates an environment where

every zone exit for Ekholm and Bouchard then becomes that much more difficult because the other defensemen are losing their battles down low and can't make plays either. Yeah, there's a snowball effect. And it must be especially infuriating for Oilers fans because I think the logic at the time of the deadline was like, well, we're not actually interested in Sean Walker because, you know, he's not physical enough and he's going to lose battles down low. And yeah, he might be a, he might be an upgrade on CC as a right shot on that pair in terms of puck movement, but he's going to struggle in the playoffs in these things. And then hearing you talk about how like that's exactly where he's actually struggled despite the size difference, it's like, all right, yeah, that's incredibly frustrating here. But the reality of the situation, right? And you get back to this point and I'm almost amazed. that they haven't at this point given real consideration to getting Troy Stetcher in there. It seems like no matter what happens,

Broberg is just never going to be in there. But just getting someone who can at least theoretically get the puck up the ice a bit more cleanly, because especially with Echole of Not Being 100%, and then that top pair struggling entirely, just not having another weapon that can realistically get the puck out of the zone

and break the Canucks forecheck and get them moving in the right direction, and is kind of unacceptable. And particularly in comparison, you look at, you mentioned the breakouts, the Canucks and some of the changes they made, there were times in that second period

where they dominated last night where Quinn Hughes was almost from a stationary position standing inside of his own blue line and getting the puck past three lines cleanly to a Canucks forward up the ice and then allowing them to just immediately attack off of it. And it was like, they were just doing that time and time again,

just breaking the Oilers forecheck, whereas on the other side, they couldn't even get past one line cleanly with a pass. And so just kind of comparing and contrasting the two in that game, I think it's like, all right, how was it so lopsided? Well, that's a pretty good starting point for us. Yeah, great point on Stetcher. We were wondering about that really early in the series after like game one or two, that, hey, here's a guy that can move the puck. And despite his stature, like, we covered Troy Stetcher for years in Vancouver, he plays way bigger than his size.

He's not a player that you worry about in terms of losing a lot of net front battles or not being somebody that you can trust defensively. and in fact you look at his career track record five on five results despite his stature and oh he's a guy that has has some mobility you think oh maybe more an offensively oriented guy his defensive metrics have always been way better than his offensive metrics and his five and five goals against rate over his career was routinely way better than his peers in in Vancouver and so I can't understand why the Oilers haven't made that adjustment yet

because especially now that the Canucks have gotten some fresh legs, right? Lineup tweaks are another big part of, I think, why they had some more juice. Phil D. Giuseppe. I mean, having a new kid and having those baby legs, as J.T. Miller called them. Here's a player that for most of the last 50, 60 games, whenever PDG was in the lineup, just had no legs. And you want to talk about a player that isn't fatigued, you know, misses a game or two here and inserted back in the lineup.

flying around the ice like he's Connor MacDavid. And so that fourth line from Vancouver's perspective, too, him, Pod Coles and Mills Amon. He's Amon, I think's been really impressive, yeah. Yeah, and even Houglander drawing back into the lineup. Like, these guys gave the Canucks a lot more speed up front, and the Oilers just don't have the mobility or the poise on the back end to break it out, at least in game five.

I mean, this is the caveat we always have to make, right? It's game-to-game momentum and storylines don't always translate. I mean, Game 4, Edmonton pumped Vancouver territorially. And yet, as Durancer called it, Game 5 was like an Uno reverse card. Yeah. He stole that. I was saying that to him earlier, and now he's just, I'm hearing him on the radio. He's just throwing it around.

Yeah, classic Drenzer. All right, let's take our break here, Harm. And then when we come back, we'll finish up and keep chatting about what we saw from Game 5 and the rest of this series. You're listening to the HockeyPedio cast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. All right, we're back here in the Hockepedio cast with Harman Dial. Harmon, we're talking to Canucks Oilers Game 5. Let's talk about Elias Peders in a little bit.

because he had that pressure after game four, right? It was heavily dissected and ridiculed, and he comes out in game five. I think, you know, whether you want to say finally, I would say mercifully, Rick Tocke puts him in a position to succeed by not only bumping him to the wing, but allowing him to play with Neal's Hoaglander again,

allowing to play with the last Linholm. And when you compare that to his linemates, the rotating cast in this series even, where it's McKayev, Lafferty, Linus Carlson, Teddy Bluger He finally was in his position where he could attack And to his credit

And I think Greg Tocke was saying this And I think Pedersen would have said as much If he actually didn't say it directly He was in a position to succeed But he also took advantage of that And was much more aggressive And assertive in creating as well And he had eight shot attempts

I had him now for three scoring chances Four of them set up He gets that skate on the winner There were just plays throughout You'd notice as well right He had the steal on the penalty kill up the wall and then gets a chance for field of Giuseppe. He's like putting it through his legs.

Kind of like when he's feeling at his absolute best in the regular season, he's like putting it through his own legs to maneuver around someone and get it out on the breakout. He's making plays off the wall around bodies, stick handling, doing his deeks. He's doing all that stuff. And you put it all together. I would include the reverse hit on Fogel. I know he was penalized for it.

We don't need to spend too much time on it. But that's also another staple of his game. And despite his size or his frame or people's still thinking that he's the player he was three, four years ago. He's so strong when he's on the puck like that. And so you put it all together. And it was a really impressive performance. It was also one I think he needed, the team needed.

And I'm curious to see if it's something that you can kind of build on and whether this line in particular is one that's able to kind of stay together and give him a bit of that consistency. Assertive is the best word to describe Pedersons play both with and without the puck. It was a night and day difference. You talk about the reverse hit for, So much of the series, one of the criticisms I had for him was too soft on the puck. He seemed like he was almost trying to avoid contact and seemed to fall to the ice too easily, losing a lot of wall battles.

When he took that penalty, I ironically was like, wow, that's a great play. We finally have Patterson absorbing contact, staying on his feet. Like that's the type of even swagger that he has that, hey, you can't knock me off the puck when I'm sturdy on my feet like that. that we haven't seen from him in these playoffs, and that's where a lot of people had been speculating, was there some kind of injury that he's playing through? Because this isn't usually the way that he plays in the regular season, especially for the first half of it this year.

And on top of that, in the offensive zone too assertive in finally being able to, when he has the puck on the perimeter in the offensive zone, finding ways to execute those deeks and maneuvers to get to get to the inside a little bit more. It felt like the National Series and the start of this. Edmonton one, he'd get the puck sort of along the boards or on the outside. And when he'd try and make those tight stick handling moves to get to the inside, get past a player one-on-one, attack into the slot, that he'd get checked immediately or that the pass that he'd try and make would get picked off.

Whereas in this game, he was able to manufacture a little bit more space for himself. And, I mean, there was one play where he set up Hoaglander twice down low off the cycle for great A chances. and I was like, okay, like, this is the player that we haven't seen in the playoffs so far. So to see him confident and assertive in that situation was really encouraging. As a shooter, he was assertive, right? Loading up for the one-timer. Anytime he was in a dangerous scoring location, instead of passing off,

he had conviction and belief in his ability that, hey, I'm just going to let it rip and look dangerous in those spots. Even on the powerplay, this is another underrated component, is Vancouver's power play didn't score, but they, I thought, threatened, looked quick with their puck movement. And I think they were probably unfortunate not to have scored. And I think Pedersen was one of the main reasons why they were moving the puck around with more pace and purpose.

So I want to talk to you then kind of spinning it forward with the general offensive approach, right? Because I think what was really interesting was in that game four, I felt like they, they left Calvin Pickard and the Oilers off the hook a little bit, right? Because those first 40 minutes in particular, they didn't really generate anything. They didn't test them. They went down to nothing. They wound up actually finally starting to kind of create some stuff and play their game in a third period, scored the two goals, wound up losing anyways.

But they come out of that game with just 21 shots, right? That was kind of in line with what's become a theme for them this postseason and has been highly discussed both locally and nationally about their shot rate, right? it's like, all right, they're averaging. I actually gotten it up to 20 shots on goal per game. After the series, it was in the teens in around one. Averaging 51 attempts as a team per game. In this one, they had 35 shots on goal,

which was the first time they were in the 30s, and 70 shot attempts. And I think it represented like a concerted effort on their part to at least test the goalie and get more pucks on net by design. I didn't know you hear that often, right? It's a cliche. It's like, all right, just get on pucks on net. that runs very counter to the way they've approached their game offensively, right?

They would prefer to hold on to the puck, kill time, and wait to get into a position where they tire you out and then get the puck into a slot for a scoring chance. That's a great strategy generally, but when you're playing a goalie who is this like untested and and doesn't necessarily have the greatest reputation of being an elite goalie, you want to at least make him make some saves, right? And I imagine that was kind of the message in between games, and that's certainly the way they approached it, because right out of the gate they were just shooting significantly more, even if they weren't high-quality shots. And I'm curious to see if that kind of continues as well, because it runs so counter to the way they've played all season,

but especially so in the first-hand playoff games. Definitely. I think they finally had the puck possession to get into the offense zone and get those looks as well. I don't think that for most of the series, it's been an issue of whether they were being too selective with their shots and they're passing up opportunities where they should just let it rip.

It felt like in game four, for example, that they were just defending the whole game. They were stuck in their own zone. And even when a player does get a break, well, he needs to get off the ice. And so he's just dumping it in and Edmonton has an easy breakup. The other way,

I think possession is a massive part of why the Canucks were able to generate more looks. And especially, like, if their forecheck can continue, creating turnovers. Like those are the situations

where off turnovers in any situation an opposing team isn't going to be in its defensive structure

and that's how you can get to the inside a little bit more quickly spring guys in front like DGuseppe

is never going to get a chance from that spot unless Boucher turns the puck

over in in that location. So I think if they can continue to bring the same speed into nasty

that they had in the forecheck in game five that'll help them possess the pock more. And once they possess the pock more, whether it's

playing it low to high and shooting for tips and deflections or trying to find ways to work it into the slot that they'll look dangerous that way. I also thought they generated more off the rush in game five. That's an area where the Canucks over the course of the regular season, they're not a rush team. They don't create a high volume

of chances. They might score the odd goal here or there off a counter attack when the other team makes a mistake. But it felt like the Canucks had their fair share of looks in transition finally, especially off the back of situations where Edmonton would try and get a look. Maybe they had a rush shot. Their players would get caught up the ice a little bit. And this is where the exits help a lot too, right? Because when they beat that pressure, now of a sudden Edmonton would have two or three,

two or three players caught a little bit high. Now you've got space and neutral zone to skate it up and attack in transition. So I'm curious to see if they can continue. you getting some looks in transition as well in game six i thought it was so interesting in watching the game and then seeing some of the commentary about it it really felt like one of those where i honestly felt like i was watching a bit of a different game than maybe people other people were and and i'm not sure what to attribute that to i don't mean to be overly critical because listen i think it's a very tough spot where you haven't played for a long time and then as a goalie you just get thrown into a series in the middle of it.

And particularly the Canucks, while they're not thought of as being this offensive juggernaut, some of the stuff they do, I think, can be very challenging for a goalie. And all that being said, like, Pickard comes in and he gives up only the two goals in game four. He stops, what, 32 of 35, I believe he had in game five. And he certainly made like some difficult saves that were challenging ones and kept not Nashville, kept Edmonton in it. I've still got, I'm never going to be able to shake that National Ankura series from my mind after I've watched all those games like twice for all the tracking and stuff and I'm like, that's twice too many times.

In this game, what I noticed though was in making those saves and it's important to make that save first, the first save obviously like that's something they weren't getting from Stuart Skinner where he had a sub 800 save percentage in the three games. So I think that's an important distinction. but after making the first save, I don't know how many of the rebounds were kicked right out into the middle and were there for the taking for the knox. They weren't really able to get on any of them

were executed. Obviously, they wound up getting the bounce off the rebound off the post to win it in the final minute. But if I'm then between games five and six and assuming the pickard's going to start for them again in game six, that's something like in your prep for this

and your study, you're like, all right, I'm licking my lips right now and I'm salivating at the opportunity. to get back out there and do this all over again because every single one of those rush shots you mentioned was a pillow pass where it was like, I'm going to shoot a low, he kicks it out, it comes right back out in the middle. And if we're prepared for him, we're ready for it, just live in that area of the ice and you know the puck's coming back to you. And so I'm very curious to see what happens with that situation because he got away with it where he only gave up

the three goals on the 35 shots. Obviously he had a couple posts, had Vinny D.R. and A take one off the goal line. I think the Canucks could have scored. significantly more than I did. But if the same game happens again that way, I think there's just so many more scoring opportunities there for the taking for the Canucks based on what I saw from him in game five. Yeah, even though he's been relatively solid

the last two games, especially relative to expectations of throwing a guy in the net in a playoff environment who doesn't have much of an NHL pedigree or resume, he's held up pretty well, but you're right, he looked vulnerable. From a result perspective, right? Like the results are under. Deniably, like, I think the Oilers are feeling like, all right, if we got this 9-14 save or whatever, we'd feel good about our chances.

I think, I hate to do this, but I think an eye-test situation needs to be applied here because it's like, I don't know if this 9-14 is necessarily going to hold up based on what's been happening in those saves. A lot of situations in game five as well were I thought he was swimming in his crease. A lot of frantic movements. Well, it was the Bester one-timer where he kind of like lost an edge and then like his body contoured it. And I was like, if Bessler gets a clean look off there, that's going to have a wide open net for him. Yeah, it didn't feel like he was always in control of that movement in his crease. And of course, that's a tall ass.

That's something that you expect from like Thatcher Demko, right? But it does make me think that, okay, there are still vulnerabilities and weaknesses that the Canucks can exploit. And I agree with you. Like, even though the results have been good on paper, I think their, my confidence level in that sustaining, itself if the Canucks continue generating offensive looks like they did in game five

it isn't super high and yet saying all that I'd still go with Pickard over Stewart Skinner for games games I don't know if I would I don't know if I would I mean it's goal tending so I don't think there's a right answer and I imagine like they've had conversations with both and maybe

it's just like gotten to a point where it's like all right we just cannot use Stewart Skinner right now and that's certainly possible I just think I would almost view it as like all right we got these two games we could say percentage. Happy with it, got Stuart Skinner a few days off here to try to recharge and kind of get his head right.

I think if you're going to go down and lose this series, you have to do it that way because I think that performance is like a very asking for like a 12. I guess Stuart Skinner did have an 11 out of 15 or whatever earlier in the series. So maybe it's no difference really, I'm sure. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know if there's a right answer. It's tough because Skinner, of course, had the much better regular Cesar. And in the regular season, he would bounce back typically pretty well after, let's say, a rough outing, even in the LA series, right?

After a rough outing, he was able to bounce back. But he's looked a little bit rattled mentally in this series. I mean, even after he initially got the hook, didn't meet with the media, just because he was, of course, too wrapped up emotionally in that environment. Apologize the next day. That's the only thing I would wonder, because based off talent and ability, of course, Of course, Skinner has more pedigree. He is the more talented goaltender, but this is where I think the Oilers internally will have the most information and have to make the right judgment call about,

is he going to be able to get over how tough the series has been so far? And his, not just this playoff run, but big picture, his playoff failures. And you don't want it to snowball against him, especially with the pressure of an elimination game. Yeah, and I think certainly with that position more so than any other, like, the headspace you're in and the preparation for it and everything. Like, I think there is more to it beyond just like, all right, let's just go out, out there and, you know, try to put it past us and just try to like, work, you can't just work really hard.

Like, I think it's a bit different than maybe a bottom six player or something like that. All right, what are you looking for? I guess we kind of, like, this was a game five recap mostly, but I think we also hit on a bunch of points where if you're listening to this and then you're getting ready for Saturday's Pivotal Game Six, you're also probably should just be like watching to see if it continues or if the Oilers are able to make adjustments off of it, especially with these head to heads or how they break out of the zone, what at home looks like. Is there any other sort of like X factors or things you're going to be kind of looking for in that game six or even a potentially

game seven down the road with these two teams in terms of like what's going to determine it for either of them? The obvious is McDavid has to get going. Yeah. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out, but him and dry settle both at five on five and on the power play need to be the ones carrying load. I really feel like they were the ones that sort of let the team down a little bit in game five, they need to have an answer to adjust to how well Vancouver has been defending, find a way to have more juice through the neutral zone, create off the rush, win more battles down low and just hem the knoxent, build some pressure, build some momentum, create a more conducive environment even for their other lines. So

that's of course an obvious one that you're looking for from Vancouver's side of it. was Pedersen's performance and indication of what's to come? Because if it is, all of a sudden Vancouver's lineup looks a lot deeper than it did at the start of the series and whether it's, again, even from their perspective, at 5-on-5 or on the power play,

a Pedersen that's closer to what he normally looks like makes them a lot more dangerous as an offensive unit. And beyond that, just the exits for both teams. I really feel like that's the biggest detourable. permanent in who's controlled puck possession, who's been able to spend time in the offensive zone, who's had the edge and scoring chances. Because again, in game four, I looked at and went, wow, Vancouver zone exits were brutal. Their bottom four defensemen couldn't move the puck at all. And like, it was so jarring looking at the numbers. I think with Hughes on the ice

at 5-on-5 in game four, I think Vancouver had an 8-3 to 3 edge in 5-5 scoring chances, all other situations. It was like 18 to 5 for Edmonton. And it was solely because, guys like Cole, guys like Myers, who otherwise has had a really good playoffs and bounced back tremendously in game five, they all of a sudden couldn't make those plays under pressure. And it's the same question marks on the Edmonton side with their blue line. And another thing that I'm looking for is Ian Cole, right? How many more goals can he score for the Oilers? I think the connects are really playing with fire here.

And I'm coming at this from a perspective of I don't even think you necessarily need to take them out of the lineup per se, but you've got to shelter his matchups after the first period, and I don't know if this was still true by the end of the night, but after the first I was looking at it, and it was like Leon Drysettle, who has he spent the most head-to-head minutes against at 5-on-5 in that first period? Ian Cole, your worst defenseman arguably in the series. And on the other side of that coin,

they've been using Queen Hughes mostly against bottom six competition because it's been the Susie Myers pair that draws McDavid. So it's like, hold on a second, you've got the best defenseman on the planet, and you're not even going to try using him against Dryseller, and instead you're just going to keep throwing Ian Cole out there. Like, I feel like you're playing with fire,

so that's another storyline that I'm looking for is are the Canucks going to adjust or is that going to come back to burn them because one of the goals that the Kane one, I think, started with Cole failing to clear the puck. Yeah, no, I mean, listen, this series has had a lot of twists and turns so far. I don't think we're done yet. It's going to be a really fun one.

I've been enjoying this series. I've been enjoying your coverage of it along with our Palladranser, so thank you for coming in during a busy time. I enjoy the rest of it. We'll be following your work at the Athletic. And thank you to the listeners for coming along for the ride with us. Hopefully you enjoy this. Hopefully it gets you ready for Saturdays game six.

That's all for this week. We'll be back on, it's a long weekend. So maybe we'll see. We'll see on Monday either Monday or Tuesday. We'll be back with a whole new set of shows. So looking forward to that. In the meantime, have a great weekend. Enjoy the games.

And thank you for listening to the Hockey PEOcast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.