The Hoely Hour - E140 Harder Than A Charleston Chew

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

Does every dad just love Rolos? Liz and Amelia read and answer emails from listeners asking about kinks, sexuality, and possibly traumatizing childhood memories, and one listener shares some amazing girlboss advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Actually, I think the last Charleston Chew I had must have been a stale one. I went to that little weird corner market on Capitol Hill next to Ike's. Uncle Ike's. Oh, I think I know what you're talking about. They sell like a steak there randomly, but then it's also like a bunch of old candy. So don't get the steak there, obviously. But I got a Charleston Chew from there and it was rock hard. It was pretty good.

Okay. Girl, you make me feel like a Charleston Chew. his tale charleston chew harder than a fucking charleston chew from a corner store welcome to the holy hour a podcast about sex relationships mental health and everything in between i'm amelia samson and i'm liz ball follow us on instagram and tiktok at the holy hour i'm on instagram and tiktok at amelia samson and i'm on instagram and tiktok at liz ball so hard you can also watch us on youtube or listen ad free on patreon at patreon.com slash the holy hour check out our merch at theholyhour.com and email us your spicy stories at holy hour podcast at

gmail.com i'm surprised that you know you're even here today girl yeah i am also surprised that i'm here today y'all i turned 30 last week it was fun um liz was put in charge of the decorations were you was that all you no some of them was left over from your parents because they didn't get to use all of them oh yeah because my mom ordered two packs of the yeah but um everything that was rainbow purple or holographic was for me you thank you so much again you fucking killed it thank you i took so many pictures in front of i don't i haven't even seen all of them because they're on like a gazillion people's yeah i put it in the corner because i was like um my vision from the beginning was to do have a little picture corner at least because

that's what i would want right you need a little picture corner i knew you would want one absolutely and then um there were so many 30 balloons so i was like these ones can be props maybe katie was like that's such a good idea yeah she was fucking lit on it she was like oh everybody kept saying the photo corner was all liz frank katie they were very much hyping up the corner yeah while i was setting it up and i was like we still have this whole room it was a beautiful corner that we need to do but it was everybody went so above and beyond for my birthday i felt so fucking special there was like that jeopardy game i could tell who was submitting which questions to every it was just so great it was such a great night i ended up being one of the

first ones to leave once we went to the bar because I was fucked up yeah you were pretty drunk we also were like not gonna make you clean up we're like you guys go we'll do the rest oh you guys stayed to clean I think so I listen did not realize I was also very drunk by the end amazing like by the time we left you did karaoke that made my entire remember that that was fantastic I don't remember doing I don't remember taking some of the pictures that I saw I remember doing half of super base oh I'm pretty sure I thought you did the whole thing no but you only remember half and like not even half like the first half or the second half I just like have like flashbulb memories of parts of super base me and Frank were like your parents like have our

phones out recording you like yes you're doing amazing you're doing amazing sweetie it was so much fucking fun it was everything was just so fun and i'm still exhausted i just haven't really slowed down for a week i had a two-day hangover yesterday was pretty rough really from the party absolutely that makes me i mean i'm sad obviously but i'm glad that i wasn't the only one that was like i did throw up a little bit oh no that night uh yes when you got home yeah i just knew i needed to so i pulled the trigger a little bit oh no yeah oh yikes and then we tried ordering taco bell but they canceled it twice i would have cried i would have cried if i didn't eat as much lasagna as i did i would have been completely fucked because i didn't eat when i got home i desperately

wanted to take the leftovers did you not well there was nowhere to put them oh like that's fair i couldn't carry a big tray of lasagna you know but you you could have i probably could have it was it was really really great i'm really happy with how everything went because i was obviously like dreading that for a while how was the rest of your weekend otherwise oh i saw you on friday too i got so much liz time this i wish every weekend was my birthday so you thursday sunday i was just like so painfully hungover um i ordered taco bell in the morning nice i ordered breakfast taco bell and it took a fucking hour it told me it was gonna take 13 minutes and i was like did you get lost what the fuck and well because i also obviously i'm safe

so i did not drive yeah my car right and um so i didn't have my car and i wasn't about to take mr liz's also i was like so violently hungover i was like i don't trust myself in a car right now there's no way and i sucked down a giant dr pepper the and so i sucked down some dr pepper smoked some weed ate a whole taco bell breakfast box um took a nap that sounds like a beautiful sunday went home uh fought off the feeling to vomit um smoked some more weed and what did i eat i don't know i ate something else that made me feel better well i'm glad that it made you feel better because that sounds fucking is yeah it was rough and then monday uh water was still like chalky you know yeah that's how i was like i was like oh it's real bad oh god a two-day hangover

i took two naps on sunday but i met frank's mom on sunday that's exciting so i wasn't i thank god i wasn't hungover which was a fucking that is a miracle interesting i know i'm like how are you i'm not hungover don't know did you throw up no damn i know i had i was counting i had two vodka martinis and espresso martini and two like really bitchy fruity shots and then a seltzer at the bar I don't know how the fuck I wasn't hungover who knows I think that I might have stayed awake through my hangover because um I slept at Frank's and somebody revved their goddamn engine at four in the morning and it scared the daylights out of me and then I couldn't fall back asleep so I think I was just like awake for the whole hangover but yeah but

then the key to never being hung over is to not sleep apparently apparently but yeah no i took the two naps on on sunday and that really that really helped and then um we went with frank's mom to get dinner and just so happened that the restaurant that we were at um i knew the hostess who she took my senior portraits and then and my first headshots ever and then the waiter uh scored one of the movies one of the short films that I did so I looked like hot shit in this very small restaurant hello it's like flexing just so happened to know both of these people we got a bunch of free we got free dessert from them free champagne I was like this could not have gone any better for me that is amazing yeah perfect I know I was like look look love me impressive but anyway she's

fantastic I didn't I didn't need to to flex but it did help um but yeah no it was it was a great weekend i'm just then my parents were supposed to leave today and they missed their flight this morning so i get an extra 24 with them that's good um it's just been non-stop non-stop fun what is today tuesday it is tuesday fucking hell i'm so turned around my body is not about it um look at this cat oh my god look at this little bloof hey bloof um this is our uh anniversary sewed oh yeah um it was our uh podcastiversary yesterday the 12th yeah today's the 13th right yeah happy happy third birthday happy third birthday we fucking made it dog does it feel like more or less than three years

less just because i think 2020 was such a a wash just what an interesting time yeah you know it really really is yeah what about you does it feel longer or shorter i don't know because the podcast is like an entirely separate entity of my life you know i because when i think about i think it feels short i think it feels like less than yeah three years yeah uh it's really zoomed by because then i also think about my relationship because it started like very close to the same time yeah and for me that feels like it's been really long yeah you know i don't know yeah that's weird that's the thing about time is like if you like depending on what you're looking at how how long the like the year fields changes isn't that weird yeah and like it feels like

the year just started and it's already June I know I know oh man it's bonkers uh I feel like every episode we talk about how crazy time is it's so real yeah sex dating and existential crisis podcast that's essentially what this podcast is now um we are going to do a bit of a mailbag episode so I pulled up some emails we can read amazing but while you're doing that Liz I heard of something really interesting today it's not like I haven't I'd done enough research about it to actually have like a full conversation on it but it's something that I thought was so interesting that I want to talk about moving like in the future um it's called uncoupling therapy uncoupling therapy I think I've heard of this I think uh I know someone who did this I just heard

about it today is it like people who want to go through divorce yes or just a breakup um a friend of a friend um is doing uncoupling therapy right now interesting um because her boyfriend cheated and so they're like going through this like uncoupling to be able to like manage the breakup easier because there's like obviously so many feelings and so much like trauma that happens but i think that's such a brilliant idea it really is i don't know why i hadn't heard about it before I wish I fucking did that I think that's a great thing yeah we should revisit this yeah I want to do some research if anybody that's listening has gone through this and wants to share or knows somebody that has yeah I'd love to hear like a first-hand experience obviously we'll keep it

anonymous per usual but it just sounded so interesting yeah so anyway just wanted to kick off our mailbag episode with that tiny baby hello am I running out of I'm running out of battery tiny baby request or I just bought the audio book by Esther Perel um I love this new love that you have I was just like I've just been binging like listening to any podcast she's like a guest on she wrote a book called mating in captivity yes and um I'm only I only listened to like the first chapter because I got it literally yesterday but the whole premise is just exploring if it's possible to keep like um eroticism alive in a long-term relationship because like romantic love and like sexual relationships are so different um they are

they like contradict each other like uh you want your love to feel safe and comfortable um but the thing that makes like romantic love or like makes sex and like sexual desire so interesting and appealing is like the person's new so you don't know everything about them so there's like mystery to it and um there's like all of these there's insecurity in it there's all these other feelings like anxiety and jealousy and desire and those are all new things like when you first start a relationship versus when you've been together for years and years so it's like how do you rediscover that that's so interesting yeah that'll be really interesting once you get more in it yeah I want to I'm excited to hear like the insights that you get from

that yeah as you go along I I was listening and I was like already taking notes in my journal i love that and um one of the things that she says that i think you know it's it's a little obvious but it deserves to be said is that um when people go to her about these types of things like couples go see her for these types of things the thing that they miss about sex is not the act of having sex it is the feeling of being desired and um feeling playful like she she calls it play and it is it's it's that's such an interesting thought because like think not like i hadn't thought about it until now but thinking about like what i like about sex and all the things that i like about sex so much of it is surrounding like the feelings that

go along with it that aren't physical which obviously but like i've just never thought about it like that so it makes sense that like when you don't have it anymore that's the thing that you actually miss yeah it's like the feelings of like being desired and being playful and like you know like somebody like like i don't know what's the word i'm looking for like um oh my god i'm having a hard time with my words it's not like pawing at you that's like the a negative way to say it um anyway all of the all of what you mean this is gonna take forever for me to try to figure out what the fuck i'm saying but that's so interesting she's such a like this is just the coolest woman i'm so happy you she is very cool

yeah i i feel like she's like my mentor in some way yeah i'm always listening to some audio book you know it's a good thing it's a good thing to do so um hopefully my listening will be beneficial for everyone listening to the pod and me and you and me yeah wow um do you want to read the first a listener email i would love to i'm going to eat a rollo while i do yeah thanks thanks for offering me a rollo anything for you baby cake rollo's are so dad they really really are we just realized we when i pulled these out of my bag liz was like my dad this reminds me my dad rolos does he love them um my dad's not a big chocolate guy oh why do they remind you of him

uh like it's like what he will eat if he's eating chocolate got it you know yeah my dad loves rolos and reasons have you ever had a reason i don't think so bro have you ever had a charleston chew oh yes have you ever had a stale charleston chew no just like snaps in your mouth yeah that makes actually i think the last charleston chew i had was must have been a stale one i went to that little weird corner market on Capitol Hill next to Ike's Uncle Ike's I they sell I think I know yeah yeah yeah steak there randomly but then it's also like a bunch of old candy so don't get the steak there obviously but um I got a charleston chew from there and it was uh rock hard it was pretty good okay girl you make me feel like a charleston chew a stale charleston chew

me harder than a fucking charleston shoe from a corner store okay this uh oh no fucking way okay sorry okay i was just i was just skimming this the uh the subject of this email is bridal buddy hey y'all last episode you said a tool to wipe your ass while in a wedding dress was a shark tank idea waiting to happen it doesn't wipe your ass but the bridal buddy was aligning under the wedding dress that you could use to bunch up the dress while in the bathroom and it was on shark tank they got a deal it fell through after the show but bridal buddy is still a company and is available on amazon i attached their website in a video of the pitch on shark tank wow would you just look at that if you can think of it it probably exists and that's why i'll never be

a millionaire from an invention next is the bridal butt wipe and that'll be yours this is just to hold your dress bridal butt wipe it kind of has a nice ring to it it's it's all about alliteration the bridal butt bridal butty instead of buddy can i get a deal with a lori actually i feel like that's like a i feel like a hershevac hershevac would like do you ever watch shark tank i have watched it a few times i can live for shark tank uh what's his name mark cuban cuban i'm i'm a cuban fan me too he's doing like the absolute most to be like cool with the kids he was like in a james charles video recently oh really yeah that is the that sounds like a mad lib yeah it really really does it truly does

you're so right i can't think of a more random pairing mark cuban and james charles charles sorry we both are having such a brain i almost said james charleston because we were just talking about charleston juice i was like i know that's not right she just said it that's when james charles gets a boner it's called a james charleston that should not be that funny but it is oh my god so out of it today um oh god i was gonna take that out because i was like i'm not making any sense right now but now i have to keep it in and we're all in on this inside joke um anyways okay this is gonna be a bit of a longer one i'm gonna get comfy then um and

it's gonna be i think more it's part story part advice asking or asking for advice i'm gonna adjust this and lay down okay this is like oh shit this is truly a story time hi ladies or it says hey ladies i want to be accurate right i just want to say first of all i love listening to you it's like hanging out with two close friends i've been listening since early last year and it's nice to find somewhere safe to talk about things no one else is talking about with a lot of care and no judgment i have a couple things i would love to get your perspective on this email is kind of long so i'm sorry if it's too much one is the kink of cuckweening i think we've talked about this so you know how like a cuck is like a male yeah is watching

another man fuck is a lady yeah exactly so this is the opposite of that so a woman watching her man fuck another woman yes oh um for background info i she her and my partner he him are in an open relationship it's been open the whole time we are committed to each other fully but also have the freedom to explore other connections as they come up we have boundaries set in place for this which are using protection and just generally being safe complete and utter honesty with each other and any other partners we pursue and absolutely no running off to someone else to avoid an argument or problems we have within our own relationship it's healthy as fuck i've had a lot of people tell me that i should leave my partner for someone who doesn't want to be open

and it's annoying because it's always based on the assumption that he doesn't love me fully or is in some way disrespectful that's not the case at all i totally understand that this type of relationship dynamic is not for everyone and also I know some people have traumas from their partner cheating and then calling it polyamory after the fact. Cheating and consensual polyamory are not the same thing. Actually, I think it's extremely hot when my partner is into other women. Like seriously, it's insane how turned on I get when he talks to me about other women he's been with or even women that he feels attracted to. I get turned on by my partner being turned on, whether it's by me or someone else. Sometimes I feel a slight twinge of jealousy, especially if I think

the woman concerned is beautiful but even that turns me on at times i thought i might be crazy and anytime i have told anyone i'm into this i always preface it with like disclaimers and justifications there are some people i've told this to that challenge me and say i'm a people pleaser and that i'm making it up so so as to not lose my partner it's a little annoying to me because it's not true and it's vulnerable for me to even say anything at all i decided to go down the internet rabbit hole recently though and found out that not only am i not alone in being into this but there but there's a thing called cut queen maybe we haven't talked about this i live for a play on words i definitely have talked about this specific thing to somebody we've talked about

this in in a sense okay which i'll get to after we read the email okay it seems like there is a spectrum to this as there is to anything for example i get really turned on hearing and knowing about these other women but I know that humiliation kings can tie into this but I don't have those I would not for example be into into being compared to the other women or talked down to in any way however I often masturbate while thinking about my partner with these other women and it's extremely satisfying for me I also recently met a woman that he has been seeing and instantly connected with her she was someone I would separately be friends with if I met her some other way i was so turned on about meeting this woman he had been he had been into and seeing

their chemistry together it was like walking into a real life fantasy we were at a big group get together and i felt like i had to keep it together but for real i could barely handle myself experiencing all that with my partner and this woman knowing that my partner was so happy that we we got along seeing him seeing him hug and kiss her while she was so genuinely nice to me and interested in getting to know me i was insanely turned on and got really really wet right there while we were all talking that that was the first time something like that happened to me i had a beautiful moment with him recently where i opened up fully about my kink and he opened up to me about fantasies he has that are related we haven't had a threesome but i'm

definitely open to it i think that this recent convo made it more of a reality i was wondering if you two have heard of this or experienced anything like it and if there's any more light you could shed on this i'm kind of tired of feeling like i have to explain myself to people or like i have to justify myself it seems like cuck queen is the clip i feel like i'm saying it weird cuck queen cuck queen i like it cuck queen uh is the closest thing i can find to what i feel but i might not exactly fit that either secondly i had a question about sexuality i am sexually attracted to women but have only ever been with men sexually and relationship wise. Not only that but it seems like my sexual attraction only goes as far as fantasizing about hot women. I do

masturbate fantasizing about them but I usually don't want to take it further even if the feelings are reciprocated. The woman I mentioned above is an exception in that I would go all the way with her but still wouldn't want to have an actual relationship with her. It does feel slightly different than my attraction to men. I'm hesitant to say I'm bisexual because despite my attraction to women, I do prefer men. I'm concerned that if I say I'm bisexual, I'd offend people and especially those who truly feel attraction to multiple genders evenly. It just also feels like a lie to say that I'm heterosexual. I know I can feel whatever I feel without a label, but it's come up for me several times and I'm not sure what to do with it. Thank you again for reading all of

this I'm sorry if it's too long and thank you for being amazing so first let's visit the cuckweening uh-huh yeah so in the the sense of um the cuckweening like in a sense we've talked about it comment that I made I've talked in the past about how I think it's hot when other women like wannabe with the dude that I'm with or like in the past have been with the guy that I'm with like I've dated guys who have like told me like yeah somebody messaged me and like that I used to like flirt with a lot but like now that I'm seeing you like I was like not into it and like I'm like oh well like what did she say she like trying to fit and like well I remember you talking about this when you were seeing uh the guest yeah we had to cut it out of the episode because that

was when he yelled at me i thought we left it in i don't remember no that was when he yelled at me for talking about this woman that he worked with that he fucked because he thought everybody would care he thought everyone would know who he was for some reason main character syndrome but yeah no i mean like we've we've talked in the past about like that kind of like experience of thinking that it's hot when somebody else has been with your partner or like is interested or is interested in them but where it stops for me is like I don't want like I wouldn't feel that way with anything happening in the present like because I have trauma but like they're like how this person that wrote this email is saying like she was saying that like cock weaning is like the closest

that she's been able to get to like how what she's experiencing but even then there's like some things that she doesn't fit into that and I think that's a huge issue with like a lot of these different like terms that we have for because everything is on a spectrum yeah and all of these words exist because we're like trying to make sense of it exactly but then we get caught up in this like labeling system yeah and that can be frustrating but I totally understand like what she means like it must be so frustrating to try and explain this to people who are not even open to the idea of like non-monogamy yes and the fact that their relationship has always been open and they have like very clear boundaries like like i've said before i think it does take

a lot of self-awareness to be able to like successfully manage a really an open relationship yeah and i'd like i'm self-aware enough to know that i emotionally could not handle that but that doesn't mean i don't like i i definitely think it's like admirable and interesting yeah you know absolutely like it's so cool to me when you meet a couple who like balances that well and they're not like full of shit you know because some people are like full of shit about it and you're like yeah you just like the drama totally totally you can just tell yeah absolutely but even then even if you feel that way about what someone's doing like that like you don't say it to them because it's like mind your fucking business and that's the thing about like when

you feel like you have to like really explain yourself to people i mean i understand from like a people that really care about you just want to make sure that like you're okay but like everyone else like on the fringes of that like mind your fucking business i don't like that like people are trying to tie it into like a shame kink like oh you're you don't think you're good enough for your partner so you like want him to fuck other people that's when that's clearly not the case because you're allowed to go fuck other people too it just feels like a non sequitur yeah and like that that's clearly not the case and she explicitly says like the thing that is attractive to her is like her partner like being turned on yeah and I I've actually never told anybody this

but also it's like a recent thing um I have like fantasized about that like something similar I think in fan like you the way Amelia just looked at me and was like bitch what she's not talked to me about this um i like the concept of it to me is hot but in practice i just know and think that i like would not enjoy that what aspect of it do you think is hot the same thing like seeing like someone else be attracted to your partner and like them experiencing pleasure and i don't know The idea of just, like, someone, like, also participating in that is attractive. Fuck yeah. Hell yeah.

In this fantasy, I was also there. Of course. Yeah. Of course. I was there to help. That's so interesting. I didn't realize that... I mean, there's no reason that we would have talked about that before now, but that's interesting.

Well, and, like, I guess in relation to what we were kind of talking about with Esther Perel, just this kind of idea that... Like, how can you bring this kind of feeling of excitement and desire and play back into a long-term relationship? So it's not surprising to me when people inevitably will, like, decide, like, oh, I think maybe we should try, like, an open relationship or whatever. Totally. So. To kind of, like, get that magic back. That's a good point.

It's like, yeah, that's interesting that that would be something that might be introduced. but again you'd need to be incredibly secure and trusting of each other totally so and having these boundaries laid out that she laid out at the beginning of that this email like it's incredible like the amount of communication that's gone into this and like what's like okay and what's not okay and what you tell each other and like you don't go running off to someone else when like just to like avoid a fight or like an argument like those are all things how easy would it be to just go to someone else who you like know is interested in you or something to be like my girlfriend's doing this or my boyfriend said this right for comfort or whatever totally like that just that's one of

those things that it's like it's so that it feels like something that you would get really good at like creating those boundaries as you go along with it because it must take a lot of trial and error like that must be something that they like learn to the hard way not I mean maybe not but like I would imagine like okay that's a boundary that we're setting because we learned that this is something that we need to set and like having that communication flowing and like always evolving and changing as you're like learning about the situation and about your relationship with this person like that's such a cool like human experience to have with someone especially when you like really trust each other as much as it seems like these two people do yeah so it's

just always interesting hearing about these like different relationship structures yeah I definitely think um this author of this letter should listen to Esther Perel because she does have like so many of her um she has she has her own podcast or well she had her own podcast I don't think she records anymore but um a lot of her patient clients I don't know if patience is the right word a lot of her clients are like in open relationships and polyamorous so it's very interesting to hear this like very acclaimed woman understanding the nuances of an open relationship so I think like exploring some of the things she has to say about relationship might be beneficial for this author and her partner because um it won't feel so ostracizing you know

right now people are like looking at her like you're not in a monogamous relationship instead of like being like oh well that's not for me but like tell me more i don't know totally i need to be we need to be like curious about people yeah i don't know you know like gently curious absolutely instead of judgmental there's just like i would imagine at least if if i was putting myself in the author of this email's shoes regardless of how and obviously this is different person to person so just speaking from how i would feel regardless of how comfortable and like safe and like concrete i feel in my situation if everyone around me was like what the fuck are you doing i'd be like yeah am i taking crazy pills yeah like i must be the one that's wrong

when in reality like you know the situation better than they do absolutely but i don't think i would have an easy time like compartmentalizing that like it would there would be like a group think thing that would come into play it i i totally understand what you mean yeah i hadn't considered that too that like if you have multiple people who are like what the fuck like could not be me yeah then you're like oh like am i thinking do i actually have some kind of shame kink i'm like repressing or am i just a people pleaser um that also annoyed me i think that's like a little sexist to be like oh you as a woman like you must just be like trying to appease your boyfriend by going along with whatever he wants right right like shut the

fuck up yeah first of all that's such a harmful way to and it's i mean it's so like automatic and maybe internalized but there's also this assumption that men like just naturally like are destined or made to be with multiple women or whatever like i don't know um but let's talk about the sexuality piece yes um i like she said you know you don't you you're allowed to you know how you feel you're allowed to feel however you feel and not put a label on it um and maybe just like explore the thing about the thing about these things is you're allowed to change your mind you know like absolutely if you want to be she they for a week just to try it out do that and then you can be if it doesn't work you can go back to she her whatever that's just an example

yeah um but it's i would say the same thing in terms of like your sexual identity um and i also think that fantasizing about being with women or being like open to the possibility or whatever i i i so many bisexual women relate to this where it's like oh i i've been i know i'm attracted to men but like that's the thing that has been so socially acceptable my entire life so like when you have when you grow up in like a heteronormative society you're like oh i'm attracted to men so therefore i'm heterosexual so then you feel like you're lying to everybody when you are bisexual and you realize that a little bit later yeah um and it's a lot of people have this misconception that it's like 50 50 like oh i'm just as attracted to each of them

when that's not true at all you're not attracted to every man you know if you're straight like like that would be such a plight yeah it's so it would be it would be torture yeah it'd be exhausting um so in that aspect it's like i do think a lot of people feel like they're lying um just because they grew up accepting heteronormativity does that make sense yeah and um there's also this intimidation factor of like okay i have spent my entire life and like adolescent years and puberty and whatever knowing i'm attracted to men and being allowed to acceptably explore that you already got to do all of these things in your like teenage years and early 20s and whatever with men so it's not scary anymore does that make sense yeah totally it was

tough for me when I was a kid to understand that I could admire women and it not mean that I was in love with them and like I think that this this happens in phases for people depending on like what your sexuality is but like accepting that like all of this is on a spectrum I think that's you don't get it until you get it yeah right like there are I know some some of my friends have been in the past like very similar to the author of this email like I'm really like I'm sexually attracted to women but then when i think about actually like having sex with them i'm like oh no never mind i don't actually feel that like what the fuck is that like who knows and it is frustrating it's like the whole cuck waiting thing and not being like 100 feeling like that fits you

like there are different like there are words that are used to help people understand where they fit into the world but they don't like necessarily cover everybody and so it like leaves you kind of like oh i don't know and like just having to accept that it's like we just they just aren't words for it and it's all a spectrum is like so much easier said than done but like this is something that so many people experience but nobody ever really talks about so it feels very isolating and like what the fuck am i oh you know what i will recommend to this author is the i think it's bdsm advice subreddit oh um i think that she'd be able to like reach out to even more people or have a better sense of community in the things that she's

interested in instead of the normies on the street totally that's a really good recommendation being judgmental yeah there's something for everyone on reddit i mean i really need to enter the world including some things that shouldn't be for anybody fuck red pill all right the subject of this one is sending love and resources on leadership this was she sent this after uh i went on my depressed rant about oh how difficult it is to manage a large group of people yeah that's fair okay cool i'm sure this will be helpful for people i hope it is i'm certain it will be okay hi liz and amelia i hope you're both doing well i've been a big fan of your podcast since episode one and have really enjoyed your journey to this point and the new microphones

sound great fuck yes thank you thank you also you've been listening since episode one so sorry ride or die we i would love to hear her perspective on what she thinks has changed oh my god yeah that would be really interesting because it's hard for us we talk outside of the podcast yeah right i don't know i don't know and we've also been living it it's like when people are like oh my god you've grown so much but you don't know because you've been living it every day i feel like i say that every time we talk about this okay anyway please excuse the length the lengthy email but you've both been on my mind and i wanted to reach out in your last two episodes there were some discussions about women in leadership and leading teams that struck a chord with me also liz your vulnerability

in last week's episode really resonated with me and i thought i would send you both a note as someone with a trauma-informed personality with a little smiley face and high functioning anxiety and depression your feelings about quote-unquote not being enough and feeling depressed are something i can relate to i'm female 37 years old and am a college president in california i thought that i read that wrong i was like holy shit good for you yeah okay sorry okay um a college president in california so from the outside i look pretty successful i also like to keep it real and have been through so much to get to this point especially as a woman of color i recently started a new job when i would consider the perfect job but was deeply depressed when i

started i was also feeling really burnt out and going to therapy but not being able to figure out why i was so depressed and feeling such low self-esteem i read a book called burnout the secret to unlocking the stress cycle by emily nagowski and amelia nags nagosk isn't that the same yeah she wrote come as you are which is on my bookshelf right now we love another amelia um and this helped a bit i would strongly recommend every woman in her 30s read this book it helped me put some context on my feminine rage and how to work on my self-care while trying to continue to burn the patriarchy to the ground fuck yeah recently i heard that was such a i know true statement beautiful sentence the patriarchy is burning me out so how can i integrate yeah

incredible recently i heard something that really flipped a switch for me and i wanted to share with you both it really helped me get my self-esteem back and stop internalizing things that i should not have been the advice as women and people of color we cannot measure our success within systems that were not made for us to be successful in even if we reach success the finish line will be moved to continue to make us perceive that we are not and never will be enough will you read that line again as women and people of color we cannot measure our success within systems that were not made for us to be successful in i just want i want the people to really soak it in i mean all of this is good yeah we have the skills and abilities to thrive as long as we define and

respect our own success and worth dr chris emden shared this at a conference in case you wanted to learn more about him i really like that that's so beautiful yeah it really is hearing this put a lot into context i had internalized so much negativity and self-blame from my previous emotionally abusive job and i had not even realized it hearing this helped me stop thinking why wasn't i enough why did this keep happening and why can't i succeed it gave me a sense of peace and i hope it will for you too along with the burnout book the last few months have been great and i'm finding joy in self-care again but of course continuing therapy to maintain in regard to leading as women i thought i would share some tips and a book i use when hiring and

training my team members the book is leadership and self-deception getting out of the box by the arbinger institute arbinger i feel like arbinger sounds right yeah i don't know who knows um i'm sure a lot of people know i don't uh it's a really easy read but the preface is human-based leadership and not dehumanizing others to excuse poor leadership and bad behavior. You can respect someone's human dignity while holding them accountable, helping them grow, disciplining, etc. I also share the five things every good leader can do with their team to help build a good foundation. One, provide resources. Two, remove barriers. Three, build trust and relationships. Four, hold ourselves and our teams accountable. Five, provide leadership and guidance with a

human approach and empathetic understanding. Again, sorry for the long email and I hope I'm not overreaching i really appreciate you both your candor stories and self-reflection are wonderful to listen to each week you bring me joy and really supported me getting through the pandemic i hope you don't mind me sharing but these things have brought me some closure and a path forward as well as helped me get pretty far in my career the youngest college president in california fuck yes hell yeah if i can do anything to support you both please don't hesitate to reach out much love to you both and keep shining bright you are both going to do amazing things and already are oh i fucking i love you what a great email seriously this is a beautiful

this is beautifully written anyway yeah amazing advice not just for us but for anybody else totally who is trying to girl boss yes this is amazing advice the the quote by dr chris emden is really incredible um it's all just really important to remember that we're kind of swimming upstream some of us more than others sense that you know after 30 years of swimming upstream you might feel a little fucking tired yes amen and it also makes sense sometimes like why some women go down the pick me route because when you are aligning yourself with power it feels safer yeah but damn it's not safer it's just annoying and counterproductive annoying yeah it's annoying it's counterproductive um and but i mean it it makes sense

why someone might logicize it that way i'm not saying it's right i'm just saying it makes sense both things can be true yeah yeah it can make sense and still be wrong exactly exactly fuck you're so smart based you should start a podcast you think has anyone told you that no well i am white and a millennial so it's the natural next step anyone can start one as we've learned i don't know if you want to read two more but here's at least one okay the subject line is caught and when i opened this i was like oh what who it's not gonna be what you were expecting so first first tell me what you're expecting based on the subject line somebody being caught cheating that's what i would have thought too first off i really

appreciate everything you two have done for me and my self-confidence can i do that for my own that's so nice yeah thank you um i have been able to act with more self-assurance when i would never have been able to act at all thank you so much for your podcast you have you really have changed my life and now for my story and question so after my husband male 33 and i female 30 got our got our daughter who was two at the time down for bed for the night we started we started to netflix and chill in the living room for a while after a bit things got heated and i ended up bent over the couch we heard a little creak on the stairs and see our daughter creep around the corner all our parental instincts snapped into place and we calmly put things back in place and

asked what she was doing out of bed knowing strong reactions trigger lasting memories i am still mortified i thought that was like such an interesting point like a strong reaction is gonna trigger that memory like she's probably never gonna fucking remember now because you didn't right yeah adrenaline wasn't right yeah um i would like to know if you or anyone you know have any memories of catching someone in the act either as a small child or a bit older i did interactly but couldn't hear or see anything so it wasn't until much later that i filled in the context clues please let me know if a traumatic conversation is in my future love you both and thanks for reading my story no not until i was old enough to understand what sex was i don't

remember ever like walking in on anything especially before not knowing what sex is because there's no like context when you're just kind of like oh i like walked in on mom and dad hugging yeah i know yeah i don't remember walking in on anything um but i have a similar thing to like the author um of not being able to put together context clues until you're an adult and it was when like i had a nightmare or something and like i would go to my parents room and the door would be locked and you're trying to open the door and you're knocking on the door and no one's getting up to open the door it's like you're like please let me i realize what's happening now i wouldn't go away i was relentless

let me i'm like eric andre let me in oh damn yeah no i mean i think your your small your small reaction was the best way to go with this i don't think you're gonna have to bring this up to her in the future and if you do i don't think she's going to bring it up well because is that what she means yeah the traumatic conversation i was just about to say it's like it's what were you doing yeah maybe when she's like four or five she'll be like what was happening and like even that feels like it would be a stretch because she's two i mean she doesn't have memories yet what was your earliest memory um well and it's hard to say because you're like is it even real i kind of remember

like my front yard and like seeing my neighbor's dad me and the neighbor girl were the same age so we would like hang out yeah and i saw her dad and i that's isn't that so strange to remember those things i wonder how sad my parents would be if i was like my first memory was the neighbor's dad not even you i have a hard time knowing what my earliest memory is because i have like a few from the same like era of my life but my mom told me that i was always afraid of people with hair like men with hair because my dad is bald that is so funny so if like you know a man has like a lot of hair facial hair i would start crying oh my god i guess that makes sense yeah you when you know one man your entire life and then you see a bunch of other men with that don't look like that

also um women with like loud raspy voices would make me cry um but that's because my mom is so like quiet yeah that's so sweet you're so used to what you knew little baby now i'm sensitive to sound anyway should we wrap yeah okay i'm fucking burnt out um thanks for everyone that wrote in we love getting emails from y'all we were overdue for a mailbag episode i didn't even sing the song today and that was my gift to you liz oh thank you you're welcome did you just forget or were you i just forgot but now it's your now it's your three-year anniversary present thank you so much you're so welcome don't say i never did nothing for you don't spend it all on one place thanks for listening we love you our children i took over today because mr liz is sitting in here

she knows i'm not gonna it was my fucking moment oh i took the opportunity oh my god this is my time Thank you.