The Hoely Hour - E151 PAP Twiddle

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

Tighten your seatbelts because this one’s a rollercoaster. Liz and Amelia discuss girl math, the amorphous concept of boy math and men placing importance on the legacy that their wieners leave behind. A listener writes in about the roadblocks he’s run into on dating apps (can we get an amen?). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Did you have any other topics you wanted to talk about? No, I just wanted to talk about my pap smear. It's also such a gross name for a thing. Just smear. It's like a pap dip. A pap twiddle. Pap twiddle? Yeah, call it a pap twiddle.

Welcome to The Holy Hour, a podcast about sex, relationships, mental health, and everything in between. I'm Amelia Sanson. And I'm Liz Ball. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at The Holy Hour. i'm on instagram and tiktok at amelia samson and i'm on instagram and tiktok at liz ball so hard you can also watch us on youtube or listen ad free on patreon at patreon.com slash the holy hour check out our merch at theholyhour.com and email us your spicy stories at holy hour podcast at gmail.com she wore a spice bomb and i actually should have bought spice bomb because i think

That sounds so good. It's by Victor and Rolf? Mm-hmm. Wow. Spice bombs for boys. Are they Russian? Maybe. I don't really love that they're naming all their scents bomb.

This didn't, this seltzer did not pop enough. Is it flat? It's a little more on the flat side. Man, is it new? Yeah. That's disappointing. I know. I've been getting through this box.

It's got a little sparkle. This box of La Croix that Frank got me. he shames me for liking key lime LaCroix but it's the best one I fucking love key lime it's the best one Mr. Liz hates key lime too and I'm like you're missing out and then we had it in another drink and he's like this sparkling water is so fucking good yeah and I was like are you joking right now it's key lime and when I got it you didn't like it everyone's like it kind of tastes like cake like yeah I like it that's why key lime pie slaps so hard have you seen any of these girl math videos no do you know what girl math is i can i guess yes is it like when when we like do math to try

to figure out like when we should wash our hair and shit yeah things like that sick like uh like cash that's free money oh easily yeah it doesn't count that's so true it doesn't uh when you when your plans are canceled you just earned money because you're not spending money to go out girl math if you decide not to go out your budget for the next day doubles damn um yeah when you return clothes that's free money you're getting you're getting free money that's so you are getting free money so this isn't girl math this is just common sense i saw one that broke down i think it was maybe a radio station in australia um the reason i think it was a radio station and not a podcast is because they had sounds and stuff they had a girl math theme song and it slaps

fuck yeah it's like girl math girl math girl math and then they like have girl math of the day or whatever and one of the hosts was like i want to buy this the this entire bed set it's like a sheet company but she wants to get like the duvet the pillow covers the sheets and it's like 600 something dollars and they're all like all of the women are talking and the men are like observing and she's like well i would round this up to like 700 so that's like 700 that you want to spend and if you divide that by like 365 and then you're splitting it yeah between you and your partner is basically free over three years fuck the men watching are like are you guys they're like laughing hysterically because they're like I can't believe like this is how women think

I thought everybody did I honestly thought everybody did that and like when you yeah when you're trying to figure out when you should wash your hair you're like okay I need to wash my hair soon but I have like a date uh in two days but so I can't wash my hair now because then it's not a long enough cycle between washes yeah so i need to stick it out for another day that's exactly right but then i have to go to the gym there's a lot of factors to factor in so many things i mean all of my things that i would say is like that i do don't feel like girl math i just feel like human math like trying to figure out when i should take dulcolax you know like i have to plan my dulcolax days like am i i'm gonna be shitting all day so i have to like pick a day

of the week I have to pick a day of the week to to be able to shit all day and then like what was the other one that I thought of oh like ordering shit on Amazon and trying to hit the $25 limit oh my god yes that's one something that they mentioned they're like yeah yeah and then you're like oh I need to if I if I don't buy enough things to get free shipping you're losing money yep and that is how it feels it is and it's just not true but it's how it feels yeah and then uh if something's on sale and you don't buy it yeah you lose money if you yeah if it's like by like if you get like 10 packages of spinach it'll just be ten dollars it's like a dollar a package but they don't tell you that you could get five and it'll still be a dollar a

package but but they make you think you know for those like if you buy 10 of these all of them will be a dollar anyway when I'm at the grocery store I'm like I need I need to get all 10 of these because I'm going to lose money if I don't exactly which is not true I'm already getting this I might as well but it's true and then that's when you look at your credit card statements and you're like who's spending all this money yeah um I was looking at my like pay stubs recently and calculating how much money is taken out of each of my paychecks and it was infuriating it hurts yes i'm like what yeah and my insurance isn't even that good and i'm paying this much for it first of all i'm also paying for meows's insurance though oh yeah so i'm like special

you can take all the money you want out of my account yeah i know oh and then like taking it out for the the amount for your 401k you're like uh i know i know when i'm older i'll appreciate this but right now i hate it it sucks that i can't just cash it have money yeah it's like can i just because it's like i kind of have money but i might not make it to retirement age yeah at this rate what then what the world's on fire a waste but i wanted to ask you what you think i think there's math and then there's girl math what would you think boy math is oh because i think boy math is like all right man if you buy like 10 tomatoes and you use those seeds and then you double the tomatoes then you have 20 tomatoes and if you sell each of them for a dollar you get $20 and

then you invest those $20 into a business with your boys and then your boys get two of their friends and then two of their friends get two of their friends and then like each of them are paying to be in the group so boy math is just an MLM to me I mean I think that you're right about that that's I mean I I didn't know what the what my answer was but I do know now and it's that trying to think of I for all of the men that listen I also it's not just MLMs I know that there's other things that are boy math and I want to know what they are like I feel like like how many drinks they can have in an hour before they drunk drive home yeah yeah i mean like i that's so sad but it's so true i mean like it's just so like universally agreed on that it's the most selfish

thing that you can do but people still do it like people that are like oh i don't want to leave my car here overnight yeah and is your is you leaving your car there overnight like worth you having to like look a family in the eye and be like i'm so sorry i killed your family member because i was drinking and driving because i didn't want to like leave i didn't want to pay a 50 ticket the next day yeah like yeah yeah there needs to be a feature on uber turn yeah it did it really did there needs to be a feature on uber of like somebody like two people pick you up and then one of them drives your car home there used to be something chelsea handler talked about this in like a stand-up set or like her book or something where you some guy drives a scooter

to you and picks you up and drives your car back with you in it and they just put their scooter in the trunk oh i don't know if that still exists i wonder if they should i bet if it doesn't it was probably a liability thing i bet too many people are crashing cars yeah and if they don't have insurance or if their car has a weird thing probably was a liability insurance should just automatically cover people who like have somebody else drive their car when they're drunk like that's fucked up that they don't yeah insurance is a scam last time we said that one of our listeners was an insurance agent did you see that no i don't know if he still listens because i haven't heard from him for a while we were hearing from him a lot but he was just like i don't really

appreciate that i mean it is a scam i'm sorry babe and you know what we're all a victim i don't blame this guy you know it is a scam buddy yeah but you gotta get your bag because that's the world we live in right people work at amazon you can only you can only think about yourself you gotta you gotta become a part of the problem or you become a victim of it like i don't know you're not the one making all of these decisions you know you're just you just work there yeah you're co-signing on it so that's pretty shitty you should feel bad about that no i'm just kidding i work for a corporation yeah i'm like um i like and i do i work i work adjacently for a tech company so that means i do all of their dirty work and i actually don't even get paid for it

i don't get any of their benefits that's crazy that's crazy capitalism baby um i'm trying to what other what things what other things do you think would be boy math um i'm trying to think of what i've observed mr liz doing yeah i feel like boy math is like making making an easy issue much more complicated honestly i would have to agree with that like they're adding like a few more steps mr liz does this thing chronically where he if he's in charge of planning something with a group of people uh he tells every person like a different piece of of the plan yeah so none of us have the full information in his mind he's like i'm like can you start a chat or something everybody has a role

everyone knows he just doesn't remember who he's told what to maybe that's why moms start to like ask a bunch of questions and you're like why the fuck are you asking this mom and it's because they had to because your dad didn't tell them anything your dad forgot to critical information yeah moms need every answer and every answer on top of those answers because nobody else has the answers except for mom so they have to be sure that they have every answer mom literally does have every fucking answer uh-huh truly but maybe that whole like giving people a piece of information in the group it's like a little puzzle is because he has an android and making group texts on androids is like complicated that's true i mean i don't know if that's the case

but they ruin every group text so i'm assuming he uses every other app to group messages friends that's crazy i'm like you are the only person i know who is actively using facebook messenger he uses facebook messenger yeah to keep in touch with his college friends i bet all of them are like why are we still doing this but nobody's changing it and then he gets so annoyed that in the summer group chat like i didn't have the app so i wasn't able to access messages for a long time and i was like i don't want to download the fucking messaging app and then uh i didn't want to use data i to like download these messages so i had that off so i like missed out on some of the messages you'd be like did did you read the group chat i'm like uh-uh yeah i'm like notoriously

bad at group chats i highly recommend to everybody turning off all of your social media app notifications oh my god since turning off instagrams my phone battery lasts so much longer your brain's free yeah then when you open the app you get a little surprise yeah but mr liz sends me reels because he was like tiktok's taking up too much of my time and that's a an alliteration yeah that was beautiful and also kind of like a double on it was like meta because tiktok like clock yeah it's taking up too much of his time poetic as yeah this is this is a poetry podcast now the face you amelia's stoner face is hilarious her stoner man uh impression just like bro this is fucking insane damn talk about slam poetry on our sex podcast

i was a little worried you were about to have an aneurysm and then you just never come back and you're just like stuck that way forever stuck as a stoner fuckboy for forever and then everyone's like is she mocking me that's how it started but now she's not she got stuck that way keep her in your prayers then our podcast would be even more interesting yeah probably damn nobody would believe that that was the story well we'll have this we'll have this episode we have video proof uh-huh uh what were we talking about i have no idea we're talking about boy math mr liz sends you reels oh yeah because he's not on insta or tiktok anymore and that's just the same fucking thing he was like i

was realizing that that's just what i'm doing but now it's on instagram and that was instagram's whole plot this entire time i think oh yeah no they've all they're all competing i mean like on twitter you can scroll through videos like tiktok and they take up the whole screen you mean x i'm never gonna call it that and i me either and i just want everybody here to know that um elon musk got fired from uh what was it paypal because he wanted to name it x imagine having that's hilarious imagine having an idea that is so bad that they're like get the fuck out of here yeah like no it's just better that's it i'm drawing the line it's just better that you leave you we're not calling it x like this is a brainstorming session but this was the

worst fucking thing we've ever heard you're is this a fucking joke to you paypal is a great name imagine that if it was like he pitches this and it's dead silent and then someone's just like is this a fucking joke to you man get the fuck no get the fuck out of here i don't want to hear it x and then he goes and names his kid x oh my god and then that's not enough yeah he's trying to make you know what he really did do to twitter what i'm sure he does to his children which is just like this is my baby and then he lets it down and destroys it with his shitty ideas fuck and and then they go on and lack of toxic children logic i you know what i'm never gonna get over someone being like elon musk is a dumb guy's idea of a smart guy i'm i i'm pretty sure i've said

that on this podcast no i don't think you have i've never heard that that's incredible wow isn't he though he really is i'm like oh god he really is you know who i like stopped hearing about when he went to prison was andrew tate like after all of that like simmered down people just like stopped talking about andrew tate yeah he like uh i mean and that's nice well and it helps that he's not allowed on anything that's true but like i mean like he still have a podcast i don't i don't think so he did have a podcast the fresh and fit guys got kicked out of their they got kicked off of youtube hilarious and they are being asked to not record at their studio space anymore yeah amazing yeah isn't that incredible so there is justice beautiful justice does exist in this world

um but wow this really got this has gone all over the place spiraled yeah um all of that was just to say and you're editing i'm so sorry all of that i'll leave it all in when i so since i don't have any notifications for social media apps on my phone when I open Instagram it's like a little treat it's a little surprise and I see that Mr. Liz has sent me a reel a little dopamine rush yeah and then maybe someone has replied to my comment on a video where I tell them they're being a fucking asshole I love that too like what what the hell is wrong with you guys I posted this video about Botox on Instagram just being like when people it's working yeah yeah what I'm like if people tell me that i don't need botox it's because i have botox that's why i look good and

it's just like clearly in jest you know what i mean the comments that i've been getting today specifically people are big mad about what i do with my face big mad there was this woman who like her whole i think you should fuck with them be like i drink it every day yeah am i not supposed to drink this stuff what do you why are you mad about it yeah what do you mean okay so what are what are these uh well this like woman instagram incel crusader saying well specifically there's this woman who's like like lgbtqia plus ally like kindness to all like was like commented stupid is as stupid does on my video and i was like this isn't very like kindness for all of you ma'am like what the fuck are you like it's just like why are you pressed about this well you know what

i think it's this projection of like women women who care about what they look like are bad yeah and i think that's really frustrating because that's probably how she like inherently treats people yeah like oh women who care about how they look are stupid they're bad because they're doing it for men yeah and that's also not true i've never met a man that's noticed my botox i'm gonna be honest yeah and if they did they would be getting it themselves yeah so that is so true checkmate bitch that's really annoying super annoying but then there are also like the incels that were like come come to me come see me when you get a nose job i'm like i'd never want like why would i come see you yeah ever i would do anything to not come see you i will i will get a

prosthetic nose and make just make my nose triple the size so big that whatever i need to do to make you not look at me yeah i'll do it is perfect yeah that sounds great to me thank you for the advice king but like it's just all day today i'm getting those i'm like you fucking bitches but you know whatever I'm feeling my best I'm looking my best I got a laser treatment on Friday y'all on my face just zip zap zap zip zap zap I didn't even know I was getting it done but I got it done and I looked like Harvey Dent all weekend but yeah but now I look not like that I just have a little bit of dryness but I'm feeling fresh but all weekend looks great thank you I started crocheting this weekend because I couldn't go into the sun and that's like I'm just gonna embrace

it i'm gonna embrace this personality i had bought the kick so i was just like this feels like something i should do because like during the taylor swift concert i was making um friendship bracelets and i was like this is so nice to do just like something like tactile you know um and now and so i was like i feel like crocheting like kids do it so like i can do it i fucked it up so fucking bad when i first started but now i'm getting good so i'm working toward a sweater y'all you're gonna be you're gonna be like starting an etsy shop i would just by christmas i would do you hear that that sound right that means that summer's officially here it means that grown adults just sprint into the street for a frozen dessert shaped like a cartoon but this

summer mint mobile has a better tree every plan including unlimited is 15 a month and unlike ice cream it won't uh drip down your wrist or look nothing like the picture does anyone have give it a try at minmobile.com switch upfront payment of 45 for three months 90 for six months or 180 for 12 month plan required 15 per month equivalent taxes and fees extra new customer offer for initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy see terms i would oh i got um are you about to switch topics uh i was going to i um before we do i uh got a new primary care physician today which meant that i got my first pap smear in three years congratulations i really like her i really really like her um she's dope her daughter

ended up buying a house on the same street that i lived on up at school oh my god she would have been my neighbor that's bananas i know i was like this is fate um you've seen my vagina she lives yeah close by to where i used to live oh my god liz it was the worst she she like I got into the stirrups and I was like sitting there with my legs open and she like starts poking around and then her light went out and so she was like trying to like get the light back on while I'm just like sitting there spread eagle for like a good amount of time was she trying to get it back on while it was in your vagina no it was like I was on the outside but she was like and I was like can I close my legs while you do this perhaps maybe but like

i just like sat there like my vagina is getting cold vagina to the gods and a little dry yeah there's a slight breeze dude pap smears fucking hurt i forgot i feel like they're just uncomfortable oh my god my cervix i've realized i have a pretty high pain tolerance in internally i've realized yeah i mean i think maybe i just have a high-ish pain tolerance yeah i think women do just like yeah in general by like biology wise yeah but like that shit fucking sucks like it like sends like a zip up your spine it's like there's no way we've we can work on improving this there isn't any better way we can be doing this right now yeah right that's exactly what frank said when i told him about this he's like there's no better way for them to do that there has to be there has

to be and why are we doing it i don't know i do not know um but the reason i wanted to bring this up was uh i mean besides the pap smear i truly think that there should be a thing that doctors just like automatically do where when they weigh you they ask if you want to know honestly that's not a bad idea like you want to know how much you weigh one doctor asked me once and i was like thank you no i don't you know well and i think that's smart because some people have like eating disorders right and i right before i was here i had a good cry at frank's which was good i needed to let some air out of the balloon poor him though he was i mean he was so great about it obviously but i was just like i was just like sobbing out of nowhere but it's like

it really like people that have bodyish like body dysmorphia like historically don't want to know like it's not helpful to know it's just not like especially when like my mom throughout all of our um scales in the house when i was like going through all my like body image stuff so like i've gotten like really good at not looking at a number and caring about it you know i'm like focused on like the non-scale victories so when i got weighed today i like i fully fucking spiraled and like having that history you don't know people's history like and obviously it's no fault of hers it's just like i think obviously i just think that that should be a thing that doctors do or they're like do you want me to tell you you know do you want to know because did she

just announce it to you i guess it was a digital scale oh and then you see it yeah it was like i was trying to just like look straight and then she looked around and she like looked for a sec so like automatically i looked down because there's something wrong you know and i saw and then she like announced it out loud and then she was like she rings a bell yeah she's like attention everyone yeah she goes on the PA I would like to announce Amelia Samson's weight I also haven't shit Amelia are you listening so I have I have I'm carrying around uh a little bit of extra LBs but either way I'm like oh my god I just like did not want to know this is also this is a really weird thought do you think that maybe your pap smear was more painful because you

got some other stuff happening down there probably pressing probably when she like did the like uterus and like ovaries like press like oh my colon's about to pop out she was like can you relax like she was nicer but she was like she was like can you like stop no because i'm afraid i'm gonna shit my pants i'm about to shit all over this table this table yeah all over this deli meat paper little shitty rotisserie chicken this took quite a turn anyway uh yeah i just like i had that thought today i think that's that's a good idea yeah and i want to empower anyone listening who doesn't want to know their way to to vocalize that yeah i know it's awkward totally and it's like you should not feel bad or guilty for like asking how you want to be treated

yeah totally and it's like I don't know the numbers are just not important no they're not they literally don't mean anything they literally don't mean anything and like you know there are like like I said like non-scale victories to focus on and it's so easy to get catapulted back to this like really like dangerous thinking anyway moving along uh so i had this thought i guess it was definitely a shower thought um i was thinking about how there's like different types of like sexual partners i guess as there are you know you got you got your like baseline boring like selfish lover you know they they don't they don't give a shit about what is going on for you what is enjoyable for you you could be anybody yeah and that shit sucks you're like why did i

agree to have sex with you this is a terrible experience for me and now i'm gonna go tell all my friends that it was a terrible experience yeah so on the other side of that coin though is the the man who is good at sex and like takes it as a personal challenge to like figure out what you like but it's not because he's like championing women's pleasure it's because he wants his legacy to be he's good at fucking yeah like damn the idea of you telling your friends that you had the best sex of your life is the thing that he's like motivated by yeah yeah and I think that is so interesting because I'm like I don't really necessarily think that makes him like a good person you know yeah but how are you supposed to tell the difference between

the guys that are doing that are making you feel good for themselves versus making you feel good for you like what are the telltale signs and do you and does it really and I think they overlap up a little bit i i know and then i was like does it matter yeah i think it over i mean it matters when i mean we've all had amazing sex with someone whose personality sucks you know so i think um when it matters is when like based on how they treat you like in the in the real world yeah but in just a sexual sense it does yeah you know yeah and they they're gonna overlap a little bit because like when like it needs to be self-satisfying for you to satisfy someone else does that make sense yeah like I love when my partner gets off yeah that that makes me turned

on totally so there's kind of a little bit of overlap but yeah and then there's also like a slight like deviation of that which are the dudes that are good at sex and want to get you off just to get you off you know what I mean like they don't actually care how you feel they don't really care about like their legacy they just like it's just like a box to check you know I've had sex with a few of those like I can't get what you mean the guest is one of those that was just kind of like it was a box to check but also he was one of those that was like a legacy guy yeah he was a mix between the two that's so interesting I never thought about I mean obviously I like it's easy to point out like the dudes that care and the dudes that don't but like I never thought

about it why they care they're like disguised guys yeah they they care about it because they care about their legacy of like you telling their friend your friends yeah oh he was great at sex yeah best sex of my life that's the thing versus wanting to get you off because they care about you fucking hell you know damn so that's something that I had this kind of like weird shower thought about that's such a brilliant because I was thinking about a guy that I dated and I was like yeah he was great at doing stuff and then I was thinking about how even though he's in a relationship he's like this is so random I like we're following each other on instagram and he like posted some picture and i looked at the comments and like he's flirting

with this girl who is not his girlfriend in the comments and he's always been a little sus like that but publicly that's crazy and i was just like and he's so good at fucking and things like that so just holy shit he was the one that i was like i think that he is good at it because he enjoys knowing he's good at it oh yeah like he wants that to be how he's remembered yeah and i thought that was just like fucking bananas damn wow and it's like how do you even remedy that as a person you know yeah like as like him you know it's like i'm really good at sex and i want this to be my legacy and also like you can also care about how the other person's feeling and want to get them off just because that's like you care about how they feel too like all of those things

can exist yeah but unfortunately sometimes they just don't exist together yeah I just want to plug here because I was about to do this yesterday but then I was like we should say something about it on the podcast we are taking down our merch for the time being oh yeah um so I'm going to do that september 4th labor day oh yeah so labor day is the last day that our current merch is going to be live we're going to go down for a bit until we have new merch yeah um which we don't know when that's going to happen but this is your last chance who would buy merch already bought it you know yeah but also like you know maybe they're they've been like waiting and they need the fire under their butts so anyway monday is the last day so i highly recommend hot buying a big sweatshirt i

love wearing my big holy hour sweatshirt i live in that thing around i love wearing it in public no one's asked me about it but if they did i have little daydreams in my head where like maybe someone from my gym is like i love that podcast and then i would be like you do funny you should say that i'm that podcast i'll have to tell them yeah oh i have an in with them i actually know them i know a thing or two about them uh i always hope that i'll be wearing it and then somebody will just like google like what is the holy hour what is that but then it's just it like cutaway shot to me yelling at men in the bar about our podcast our lucrative podcast i would say it's like a little lucrative it is lucrative it has lucrative energy you know you know like the energy

that i shout at these men make me sound like we're like bringing in millions of dollars you know what i mean and i love that i do too it's not their business they don't need to know yeah we are bringing in millions of dollars some somehow in some on some timeline for some yeah maybe in the future yeah definitely in the future over a span of time definitely in the future i looked up my net worth online oh you saw this and they said like what millions of dollars millions like where um one time i looked up my name and it was like she has a criminal record and she's making six figures and i was like i fucking wish this was this was also like a while back when i was definitely very far away from making six figures well i was like who is she i want to be her

she's a lucrative criminal she's living life on the edge she's got a little spice she has a criminal record like what did she do i want to know fell lizzy um i did have one other that was felony and liz did you hear that felizany that was better than mine forget i said anything what were you gonna say i did have just one other light topic um we were talking about this over text but I thought it would be a good discussion to just have in general I wanted to talk about secrets I saw something I can't remember if I read this in one of my many self-help books that I consume um at least in I think in the winter I like consistently consume self-help yeah that makes sense but uh it was saying how the ability to keep a secret is an indicator of growth

oh and i also just think like i've been thinking about this a lot in general like when someone asks you to keep a secret that's like the they're trusting you yeah and trust is like such an important thing it's like honestly first of all it's one of like the highest forms of flattery because they like are really trusting you yeah with their truth and when you betray that like now you're like hurting someone you're losing their trust you're betraying their trust that fucking sucks i don't know when i think about it i'm like damn that is shitty like even when sometimes mr liz will tell me something and he's like the first thing he says is if like if it's like kind of a touchy secret he's like don't tell Amelia please because he knows you you and Anna

are gonna be the first two people I tell what an honor he's like don't please don't tell Amelia I'm like oh fuck okay all right you know it's hard because I want to tell you like information it's more of like an exchange of information rather than like uh telling someone's secret yeah and then like like being judging them for it I think the judgmental aspect is like also a big piece of it like you can tell inherently like among the people that you trust you trust them because you know they're not going to be judgmental yeah you know right and I was thinking about just like even as a kid like if you tell someone like if you're telling one of your friends I don't really like this other person and then they turn around and go tell that person and then now you've

caused conflict yeah like what's the point of that so now you've betrayed someone someone's trust and then you hurt someone else's feelings i think it's also like a a power play to like have someone's secret and like and exploit it yeah it's like exploit their secret yeah and now you've like hurt a bunch of people and now no one likes you but it is like a like yeah i know this thing because people tell me things and like that's so true if you hurt me then like i have this thing that I can oh yeah using it as like a status symbol too yeah yeah I know all the information versus like wow these people are really trusting me and that like that makes me feel good because that says a lot about my character yeah like but I mean that is also a

journey yeah you know of of trying to figure out what you can and can't share but in general if someone's like please don't tell anybody this don't fucking tell anybody well that's like exactly tell your therapist yeah yeah yeah because they literally can't tell anyone i love telling my therapist things that i can't tell anyone oh my god me too i'm like i gotta tell you this because i can't tell anybody else i promised it's that's so fucking true maybe i should be a therapist just i've been saying that i would be no i would be such a bad therapist why um there's just so much more responsibility like you're responsible for helping someone like manage their mental health yeah you know and and then you just have to give them your best advice sometimes I like

when it comes to Mr. Liz if there's conflict I have a hard time removing myself from like being part of the conflict to ask the right questions you know absolutely I have to try and put on like you're too close to it exactly I'm like what well what what questions would I ask like of my friends if they were telling me this that's a good way to think about it my friends aren't dating me so it's not the same yeah do you feel like it's a different version of you in a relationship a little yeah it's interesting um I think I definitely feel like and this is I know I've told you this that it doesn't feel like Mr. Liz and I have been dating for a long time and I think it's because it took me a while to feel really comfortable being myself yeah um

and that's like not his fault either it's me trying to heal my like past relationship trauma and mistakes and like change how I was operating in relationships and that requires a lot of patience for both of us I mean he's not aware that that's what I'm doing but like that's what I was working on yeah so then I was putting myself in this place where I felt like I had to do everything perfectly and I couldn't be I couldn't ever get on his nerves or be unlikable in any sort of way yeah and when you do that you are betraying yourself so much and when you betray yourself like that you kind of get lost and you feel depressed so I think that was a big part of my like really low depression lull yeah of you know and it's not anyone's fault it's just like I was betraying my

values because I was afraid of losing this person I love yeah right and you feel so yeah when you betray your values and you just it like when you feel like you're not being yourself you get so like disconnected from being authentic reality being authentic is the thing that's gonna bring you joy yeah in your life so I like have been back on the path of authenticity good I love finding myself that's so good that's so good it's interesting hearing you talk about like your trauma in the past like like directing how you are in this relationship now because like my trauma from my past of feeling like i can't be 100 myself has made me like jump into this being like so violently myself you know because i'm like if you don't love me like this do you

know what i mean like and i've been like that you know so it's just interesting that like it can manifest in different ways yeah that's true and we've said that about like our younger experiences um i was also thinking so you we've been bringing that up reminded me i was thinking about like if mr liz and i broke up you know depending on how it would happen like if he cheated on me fuck him like yeah but it's over but if it was just like a mutual breakup i would not be embarrassed about dating him but I was thinking about the rest of my exes and how ashamed I am that I have had relationships with any of them like sometimes I'll remember that I had sex with these people and I feel so horrible I'm like why was I dating and sleeping with these men who

did not like me like they didn't like me yeah but also like your 20s are for dating people who hate yeah that's true i also think i hated them too so it's not a one-way street but i'm just like i'm embarrassed when i think of that and i i had this thought because of how much mr liz loves me well i was about to say like you like you love yourself differently now like back then you were accepting it's true you were accepting a lot less from people than you are now yeah so like it's not even embarrassing like it's kind of like cool you know to look back on that and be like I was like hooking up with people that like are so fucking awful like thank god I grew out of that like that's that's a testament to you I well and I was just like how much Mr. Liz like cares about me

just made me have that realization of like why would why was I ever in a relationship with someone who like didn't treat me with kindness like this you know yeah it was I know a weird little moment of reflection it's it's sad to think about I think about that often with Frank too it's like I like why why was I ever accept anything besides this yeah right like oh this was out there you know I mean I had to go through all of that I I know to like get to meet him but like it's just wild to look back and be like oh this was possible word i was saying yes to way less than like how common is it that we're all shown relationships like we're shown marriages where like they're clearly not happily married in in media and shows and

whatever um mr liz calls it wife bad wife bad why wife bad um like when like the whole ball and chain oh yeah like you know and it's like for comedic effect yes that like these couples hate each other exactly yeah and like that is so normalized like i'm i'm sure you've been around a couple that is like bickering and then you're like why are y'all even together like you clearly don't like each other yeah you're like in the backseat of the car like are they about to drive this car in fact i think maybe you guys hate each other yeah hi i don't want to butt in but should you guys break up like they just seem inconvenienced by doing things that would make the other person happy yeah that's awful i know and i like you know i mr liz and i both do this

thing where you know we're like oh i want to make this person happy yeah like it brings you joy to make the person you love happy that's love yeah yeah i mean period so no more wife bad no more of that that's such an annoying trope and i i mean every once in a while i'll see some kind of tiktok that's like saying like men will just settle down with anybody like they don't get married with to someone unless they're ready to get married and like they'll just marry anybody and uh i was watching a woman like go on a rant about that and i was like okay while i don't disagree i also don't think that it's as like conscious or malicious as it's portrayed yeah like i don't think men are consciously going out into the public and being like i don't even fucking care who this woman is

i'll just marry her yeah right i think they're like just as yeah that's they're just as brainwashed as everybody else is and just like doing their best yeah exactly we're all just out here kind of doing and you know what some people's best sucks yeah and that's just part of it but um but i think you're right it's not as like yeah it's not uh like venomous as like yeah because it's so deeply ingrained that but you do have to actively be working against it yeah it's kind of the same thing like if you're a white person you are gonna have to be actively working against like internalized racism your entire life you're never not going to be working against that yeah so I think the same thing kind of applies to like men and how they view not just women but like

femininity yeah and patriarchal standards damn you're just gonna have to be working against it the rest of your life and probably all of us are and there's like there's some shame in that just like oh yeah that's the fact that's why people get so mad they get so mad because they're ashamed they're like well that doesn't apply to me like well yeah it does but that doesn't all that also doesn't mean you're a bad person right right so two things can be true so there's a big loss of nuance in conversations every single day that's so true and that and they make me mad y'all the comments make me mad they make me so fucking mad i'm like you i know you're not this dumb it's like the bean soup i yes it's like the bean fucking soup i know you're not this dumb yeah

yeah because i meet people every day who are not this dumb uh-huh yeah it's like whenever they get behind a keyboard they just like lose like 90 of their brain cells a smooth brain smooth brain smooth fish brain we are gonna read an email and the subject line of this one is where are all these people meeting each other hi first of all love the cast i listen every week it runs the gamut from entertainment to parasocial group therapy so thanks for everything you do i think is like the best description we should change our bio to parasocial group therapy yes and entertainment yes runs the gamut from entertainment to parasocial parasocial group therapy brilliant both of you have described dating apps at one point or another as a necessary evil pretty much

everyone says the same thing about dating apps they suck my experience also hasn't has been a lot of suck but i feel like i'm getting a special and especially short straw i joined both hum both humble and binge back in february and over four months ago over four months got no matches then when i finally did get a match we chatted for about an hour and then she disappeared before she goes to me she complimented me for asking more about her than any other guy she has talked to on hinge so i don't think it was something i said hopefully not anyway after this first match the floodgates opened and by that i mean i got a handful of matches over a couple months none of these matches progress beyond a few exchanged messages and of course the whole

time i'm shoveling money into both of these apps because their marketing have their marketing heavily targets loneliness bumble will say something like you know you'd get more matches if you use compliments. They're $1 each. Pay up. And I'll happily pay up because nothing else is working. It's like playing a slot machine with these apps. I'm not even sure half the profiles I'm swiping through are real people anymore. This endless swiping was causing its own special kind of depression and loneliness, so I ended up deleting both apps about a month ago. I'm not going to ask what am I doing wrong because it could be any number of things. It could be my fault. Maybe my profile was off-putting, my photos were bad, or maybe it's my location,

about 45 minutes outside a major city. Maybe my expectations are just too high. Before joining any sort of dating app, I was led to believe the they suck part was from dates that got nowhere or meeting people that suck. I'm finding the meeting people part to be nearly impossible. A few years ago I had a co-worker who went on three to five dates per week at the time I thought how does she manage that but now I think how the hell is she getting that many matches and she's a lesbian too so theoretically her dating pool is much smaller the part that really bothers me is I thought dating apps were something of an easy way out I'm self-employed work from home and don't have very many local friends so my opportunities to meet people are super low outside of dating apps

i don't know what my options are hit on women in public yeah that sounds impossible even if it was an appropriate situation maybe i'll go pick up a weekend shift at trader joe's not a bad idea my therapist's only suggestion is to not let my lack of success on dating apps make me feel less valuable sorry for the long ramble i guess i was just looking to vent and then he signed it some guy from the internet thanks some guy from the internet i agree with your therapist's suggestion to not let it make you feel less valuable yeah my thoughts you know we're only like reading this email so we don't have really access to anything else I would guess if I had to guess when he does get a match perhaps maybe there's a little too much messaging initially because I've had this

experience so many times on dating apps where if it's like too much messaging and we meet in person then there's also these expectations already that you guys like you've never met yeah but you had you've had these like conversations so then you're like is that it just feels unnatural yeah yeah it puts like more pressure on it yes yeah exactly yeah so i find it better to just have like a couple quick back and forths just to make sure they're not a robot yeah to make sure they're not a robot or like kind of shitty you can tell in a few messages if someone like really sucks um and then just set up a date that was gonna be my advice too like move it off the app like asap or like you know if you don't feel comfortable like going on a date with them right away just being

like hey do you mind if you like move this off the app like here's my number you know and having them text you because that's also easier to keep their attention because like people are inundated on these dating apps like there's like you match with someone you're having a good conversation like like it's like a shiny object syndrome like the second they get a new match and they start messaging them they start talking to them and then it just keeps happening like it just the message keeps getting buried further and further down and then that's it i also that's so true and and there comes like a level of stress and responsibility of like oh i have to like send these messages yeah and keep up these conversations and i know that this isn't necessarily fair but

like women get way more matches than men on dating apps because there is a saturation of men on dating apps so now like these women have a new match like you're saying and then they're in a box and then that's stressful so it's easier to just like have maybe a quick conversation at the gate and be like you know you seem cool and interesting i'd love to just grab a drink sometime here's my phone number text me if you feel like it yeah and leaving it at that and that's that yeah totally because it is a little easier you feel less it feels less crowded yeah when you're like here's my number like text me if you want no hard feelings if you don't yeah and the reason that we like obviously like wanted to read this too is like that this is such a common issue

like i hear this so often from my guy friends just like being so jaded by these dating apps because of this experience but also like like reminding yourself that the women that you're not hearing from after you've been talking for a sec they could also be like fuck this shit and just like not open the app anymore yeah like everybody's sick of these dating apps and maybe that's not the case maybe they are getting inundated and it's getting buried or whatever the reason may be nobody really knows because everybody's different but like it could be that they're just like get me the fuck out of this hellhole and just dipping out of the app period just be like oh i'd rather hang out with my friends than think about how frustrating this is

yeah because it sucks yeah it is hard especially on the apps uh-huh and then my second thought was like i wonder what his profile's like yeah what do you think makes a good profile and i know we have talked about this but we can always use a refresher yeah i mean like whenever people ask me like what to do on their profiles because i'm always talking about what to not do um i always say just like be yourself because i think people try to like be someone they're not and they put too much thought into like how their photos are organized and like the kinds of answers they have for like prompts and like if you're being yourself you're going to attract someone you should who likes you for you yeah and like on top of that i always when i was on the apps would like if there

was a prompt that kind of like opened up a conversation like um i was looking at one of my friends hinges last night and he had a prompt that was like um it was like life goal of mine is like to travel to like go to all of the continents like only three more to go and I loved that because it's like you see that and you're like oh what are the three you haven't been to like that's a conversation opener if there's something that like invites conversation or like gets people curious about something like that's always good and then also like having a variety of photos of you doing different things I was gonna say I think having some good pictures also I'm and i don't want this to sound shallow but like dress nice dress nice in these pictures yeah and

if you don't know how to dress nice there are so many things that can help you figure out what is a good style for you google yeah uh go on go on tiktok and look at some some fashion videos yeah or like yeah men's men's fashion and if it doesn't if you're like oh i don't want to look like these little paintbrush boys because their hair is so paintbrushy and like uh and to be fair like when i see a a guy in their early 20s walking around i'm like yeah yeah like you guys look so annoying so if that style doesn't vibe with you then you don't have to dress like that but just like some well-fitting clothes and that there are nice colors that like compliment your eyes or your skin tone like that can go a long way yeah just just looking like you put in the effort in your

profile pictures yeah um and then like if you don't have any like recent photos this was another question that i got all the time when i was like reviewing people's profiles they're like i haven't taken any photos like since the beginning of the pandemic which is fair like just like walking around the city with your friend and like a couple of t-shirts and just have them snap like two photos of you that look like they're on different days snap a couple pictures yeah like nobody will know with the boys yeah just be like hey will you take a picture with me yeah or even just like take a picture of me of me which is so much more common for women like yeah you take a picture of me yeah but i i guess i wouldn't think twice no i i don't really know what the dynamic of male friendships

are mr liz is always taking pictures so yeah uh his former roommate has a ton of really great pictures of himself on his dating apps i love that get a photography friend yeah get a friend who just wants to document shit that's the advice we have but also self-timer goes a long way self-timer and portrait mode set up a self-timer because i mean i i guess i don't really want to see like a man's selfie yeah like a mirror photo i don't want to see yeah i don't want to see mirror anyone's mirror photo or selfie i don't know if this is still the case but bumble like um wouldn't allow mirror photos that's funny like their ai would like pick up on a mirror photo and be like oh you can't post that i wonder why yeah i think it's just because they're like bots or they look

bad yeah they just like look bad and maybe there was like a lot of nudes that way who knows oh true maybe so they just like got all of them off there so i would say like a combination of some solid pictures like they're not blurry and you're well dressed in them yeah they show your personality yeah and then have like prompts that would be good conversation starters and then keeping the conversation short and sweet and to the point yeah and it is it's always hard to put yourself out there but it's less hard when you don't have to meet them in person yeah and then they they just don't follow up so if you just give them your phone number and they choose to text you and even then i'd be like keep the conversation if you move it to text still keep it short yeah

and then just like have your plan to meet up and then meet up and see how it goes and it might suck because first dates do but then give it another go yeah that's always my advice i mean unless they're like really awful yeah but if it's a little awkward go on another yeah i would say like yeah if a first date's mid go on a second date yeah just just to see no harm no foul because also if a first date is immediately good that's also not enough of an indicator like no you don't know what they're going to be like by date three yeah i've gotten my heart broken by so many men that had really great first dates oh i also have to say uh the um his lesbian co-worker yeah lesbians are they have a system yeah they do they're slick with it they really

are i bet i bet she has some good advice too yeah she would be a good person yeah a lesbian would be a great person to ask for some some advice there's an episode of um the button on cut have you watched the button ever it's like a speed dating show oh if they aren't if they're like oh i'm not feeling it they hit the button yeah yeah they did an episode recently with lesbian women and it's so fucking fun to watch they're so smooth yeah i mean of course we all they're slick with it yeah but they're great people to ask for advice from so that's also our advice ask for advice from your lesbian co-worker and that's that yeah that's that's the best advice i could think of like tangible actionable things yeah maybe i should start

um i know you did this maybe i should start reviewing dating profiles on fiverr yeah if you guys want that i'll do it fuck yeah i need i was thinking about starting that back up such a commitment yeah then fiverr takes some of the money too i mean any of them are gonna yeah that's true that's true yeah maybe i'll offer it through my website oh that's a good idea yeah and get it directly hell yeah oh my god we should like double charge if um they want advice from both of us yeah like the liz and amelia package like no i only want amelia's advice no i'm the proprietor Amelia already has basically three jobs many jobs two full-time jobs and a part-time job and I just have one full-time job and then I'm never gonna sleep ever again my other full-time

job is managing myself which is very hard to do and doesn't pay well no it doesn't pay anything horrible it's a shit job you're an intern yeah i'm an intern you're getting college credit yeah i'm getting exposure yeah yeah you're getting paid in exposure no i have to manage these two cats okay yeah it's a lot they have big personalities all right well thanks for listening yeah this is this has been another banger it really has we love you are children that was all liz y'all what the fuck i i wanted to do it this time that was so exciting for me i bet this is how people like feel in church when they get like this the spirit yeah jesus or whatever they call it yes yes by the body compelled me yeah damn wow what an exciting day

for me yeah did you want to did you want to sing at all no i can't follow i can't oh my god no that was all that's all you thank you no thank you Oh, yeah.