The Hoely Hour - E177 Sad & Important

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

AI is everywhere, and it's coming for your job, even if you're a dominatrix! Liz and Amelia also talk about "Quiet on Set" and the horrific abuse former child actors shared in the HBO docuseries. Please listen with care! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Hello, angels. We are putting a trigger warning at the top of this episode because Amelia and I talk a lot about quiet on set and child sexual assault and abuse material. So please listen with care. And if this is an episode that you don't want to listen to or don't feel comfortable listening to, I would stop listening at around 11 to 12 minutes in. Love you welcome to the holy hour a podcast about sex relationships mental health and everything in between i'm amelia samson and i'm liz ball follow us on instagram and tiktok at the holy hour i'm on instagram and tiktok at amelia samson and i'm on instagram and tiktok at liz ball so hard you can also watch us on youtube or listen ad free on patreon at patreon.com slash the holy hour

Check out our merch at theholyhour.com and email us your spicy stories at holyhourpodcast at gmail.com. Hello. Hello. I'm so happy you're back, dude. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. What's your name?

Michelle. That sounded like a lie because you thought about it before you said it. I don't believe you. You caught me. It's me, Liz. Did you guys know that? uh i made a some kind of version of a negroni have you ever had a phony negroni no i keep ordering them it's like a like a drink company makes them it's like in a bottle and they taste

just like negronis but there's no alcohol in them well the thing that makes a negroni taste like negroni is campari and p uh no no um close uh old-fashioned bitters nice yeah so those are the two things so if you have something like campari because it's just a very like it has that orange peel flavor yeah you know maybe they just put orange peel in it perhaps yeah um speaking of alcohol me and frank toured a scotch distillery well it was it's a it's a whiskey distillery they can't call it scotch because it's not in scotland but um i learned so much about i didn't know that was the difference between the two yeah it's like champagne and prosecco that is fascinating yeah so that's my fun fact of the day well and i'm also like from here liz i'm that's all the work

i'm doing today i'm like well because i know champagne is made in champagne france and i think it's made in these like underground casks or in the catacombs with all the dead people maybe that's it might be it i realized that scotch is called scotch because scotland like three days ago have you ever had a scotch egg yeah oh i think they're fucking bomb really yeah maybe the ones i had were just really good i think that i just have this thing with british food because like i just ate so much of it growing up on like trips to see family in england what would you eat mushy peas frank loves bushy peas i hate peas yeah but they're really good They have mint on them.

They're cold. Well, they're served cold here. They're served room temperature in England because they just love room temperature shit in the UK, like beer. That is so upsetting. Yeah, I know. For me to discover. Yeah, mushy peas, runny eggs, baked beans.

Thinking of a full English. To me. Yeah. Beans are... I like beans. I just... I don't know. I don't know.

I don't like how they serve beans. in general or like a certain kind of bean like a baked bean yeah like i don't i don't want a wet bean you know what i mean i do know what you mean why are these beans wet well i made like a white bean like dish a couple weeks ago and mr liz was like this is probably the last thing i would have picked from this cookbook and it is so good oh good i was like were they wet no they weren't they were crispy well there were breadcrumbs on top that were crispy oh anything is good with breadcrumbs it was a very good meal but yeah i i do be farting you know what i think is a an underrated food and i think it's because like cartoons always

made it sound so gross is tuna casserole oh i thought you were about to say spinach spinach is also bomb when it's done well wait how do you say spinach spinach that's how i say it too mr liz says spinach spinach and i was like i know it's spelled like that but i don't like hearing it spinach spinach i think it's so cute when people pronounce things differently frank says singing like he really says this the first g in singing singing singing singing i can't say it singing singing singing i always just say like singing i don't know it's just kind of singing i think it's so cute singing it is always fun when someone pronounces something slightly different yeah you're like say say spinach before we dive into our main topic i was looking up sex

news and came across something fascinating that i want to tell you about um i love learning the headline of this art of sagittarius rising they like to learn i did not i didn't know that so this the title of this article was um this unexpected thing saved my sex life with my wife uh okay what do you first thought what do you think it is unexpected thing yeah um oh i feel like i saw this i feel like i saw this headline okay do you did you click in i know that i did and i don't remember what it was and i remember thinking like nah duh oh interesting i think maybe see it might have been maybe you saw the one about traveling because we talked about that yeah you did tell me that maybe i'm complaining too i mean i don't want to say weird

it's a little it's a little weird it's a little utopian not utopian a little dystopian dystopian yeah this um watching vtubers what's that they're like weird anime 3d ladies who dj you're like not super far off oh okay i mean like you are in a sense they might i they have they're called something i think they're called bjs fuck yeah because i saw something on reddit that was like my boyfriend's addicted to bjs and then i was like huh and then i clicked it and then it explained it stood for like the the djs is it are they naked no but they they have like titties fake titties yeah hell yeah well because also they're cartoons it's like what i think i'll get i'll get we'll circle back to what i was talking about

the like mindset you have to get into to animate a woman with enormous tits like i never think about the person that created is making that yeah like are they doing it as a joke or like do they actually think this is attractive yeah oh my god i saw this tweet today that was like and then it was it was from a video it was like ask a man to describe his ideal woman and watch him just describe a slave should we ask mr liz before he leaves is he still in the gym i think he left damn but if you think about it i mean not it not not all men but like it's like oh god i really want to do like a man on the street thing okay tell me this uh unexpected thing yes saved their sex life is that what is that yes um it is an ai dominatrix yeah this man and his wife he called

out that he's they're polyamorous and i i'm a little worried that he called that out because it felt like cheating but it's ai so like what does that what are the implications of that you know what i mean but i've just moved past it i just don't want to think about that but like this ai dominatrix her name is mistress cena senna s-e-n-n-a if you're interested in checking it out and he is here oh hell yeah oh are you leaving well we have a question for you uh describe your ideal woman what you're looking at her people that is that's the right answer well first he said no which is the wrong answer and then he said you're looking at her

which is the correct answer damn got a politician in our midst these are all very diplomatic answers um but okay so this this online this ai dominatrix like will tell you what to do and if you sit like the opening of this article is her telling him to like put his nose on the floor and stick his legs straight up in the air and he he responded being like i can't that's humans don't move like that and she was like the pain is temporary like you fucking do it and you can just kind of tell her you're doing she's not gonna know she's not in there you know but he like did everything she asked and like there's a lot of like humiliation to it and shit but then his wife

walked in on him doing it one day and then i'm gonna be the article is very long my adderall had not kicked in yet so i don't know the the how this story ended up i don't know if there was like a symbolism of how it fixed the relation or fixed their sex life i don't know what it was but i just thought that the existence of this ai dominatrix is fascinating a little scary the thing that is fascinating to me about this specific scenario is that this man wants to be degraded but by a woman but not a real woman and not his fucking wife damn i think that is i i can't i can't even begin to unpack that for this man yeah like okay you want a woman to degrade you but you don't want it to be a real woman yeah not a real woman no right because a real woman could never be above

him well she could judge him yeah that's damn nothing's worse than a woman's judgment ain't that the truth um anyway yeah so i thought that was really really interesting and i had not heard of it but it kind of makes sense that that exists because like we've been like talking about sex robots since like forever ago i think the thing that is less common is that this is a like power dynamic that this man's pursuing that is not like common like women aren't in power in a patriarchy so he's pursuing that whereas like the main concern about sex and ai is creating images of children and scenarios that are like exploitative even if they're not real kids you know it's still the same fucking thing yeah you're still a pedophile yes and just the harm that causes

and then that's so fucking exploiting like people who do exist um yeah oh my god have you heard i haven't looked into it but my hairdresser was telling me about it also i'm kind of blonde now i added a lot more highlights but that's neither here nor there this is not the time to talk about summer it's for summer um have you heard of uh ren and her mom on tiktok yes i had not heard about this i think this is a good segue yeah yeah i hadn't heard about it and i like kind of did like a little when i was getting my hair done i was like looking through some of the stuff but i didn't do a deep dive i only heard about it because of the people talking about it yeah yeah the justice for ren yeah stuff um should you should we explain it you might do a better job

of it than me so ren is this child she's like three yeah you you could say infant yeah i would qualify that as an infant yeah um a child and her mom uh runs a social media account for her has like 17 million followers on it and the comments on it are disgusting and there's just a big conversation happening around like parental influencers and family influencers because they're exploiting their kids against their will yeah and they know they see these comments they know that their audience is a bunch of fucking pedophiles like predominantly yeah and she continues to exploit her daughter without her consent because she's fucking three yeah and she's making a boatload of money off of her and i'm sure that she's justifying it in her mind like

well it's gonna pay for her college one day well and this girl so then now this child is going to have to when when she gets older she's going to see the things that men were saying about her when she was three yeah and i mean like there i don't she's has so much exposure now like what this is i mean god forbid but like what the shit that happened in john monae ramsey like i mean we still don't really know what the story is there but like she was like overly sexualized at a very very young age and when there's a lot of eyes on that and the eyes of some of the absolute worst people on this planet it's dangerous well and these creeps will go to great lengths to like find ways to exploit children yeah like there was a huge problem on

pinterest oh god like this time last year with men searching for young kids who were using pinterest and trying to dm them a mom like i remember seeing a tiktok of a mom being like yeah and then some fucking guy tried to dm my daughter on pinterest and um so scary you can no longer search certain things on pinterest um like i think uh coquette is questionable at best what's coquette oh you haven't heard about the coquette style no it's like a hyper feminine style but it is often um looks like a little girl oh it's like dub clark uh no maybe like i i i don't look i don't really know like what dove clark wears on the day-to-day but hyper feminine like lacy girly type of style um and where it becomes where it can become

problematic like it's supposed to just be like a flirty girl thing but now it's kind of replaced the phrase lolita so you can't search lolita on pinterest either and lolita is a story about a grown-ass man who pursues a sexual relationship with a 12 year old girl um because he sees himself as 12 or some shit he he just finds a way to logicize being a fucking pedophile um anyways the coquette style is kind of like the new like version of lolita which is it's not supposed to be i think you should be allowed to be hyper feminine and express that part of yourself but when it when it crosses the line is when you are trying to make yourself look like a little girl yeah that's where it can become dangerous for actual girl little girls yes so yeah there's

like I've seen a lot of debates happening online about the coquette style as well I had never even heard of it but I mean I've seen that style a lot and it is like I mean I've seen a lot of like pushback on it like it is a lot like it's like a little bit of a trend of like putting a little pink bow on something yeah and that makes it coquette yeah yeah I think it's cute but I mean like I can see why it would be an issue it's supposed to just be like a way to embrace like hyper femininity and something that is commonly like found repulsive by boys and men in terms of like you know they don't like pink and frills yeah so like for you to lean into that even more and indulge in it and embrace it um as an adult is kind of like a fuck you but it does cross this

line into like being pandering to men by trying to infantilize yourself and i don't think that younger girls realize when they are infantilizing themselves no of course not and i mean it deserves to be criticized but also i think like younger women haven't seen the shit that we've seen yeah um their brains aren't done developing so there's still kind of this like we were all raised to um pander to patriarchy you know it almost ensures your safety in a way which it's it's not real safety but it allows you some level of privilege that you probably wouldn't be able to have yeah so i don't know yeah yeah it's it's nuanced and complex it's just as are many things yeah as is yeah almost everything it there has been a wave online of people being like predator

poachers like baiting oh predators into like meeting quote-unquote meeting up with like 13 year old girls and then it being like grown men and being like what the fuck are you doing and there are so many of these accounts and a lot of the guys that show up look like the type of people that you would like expect you know like the like stereotypical just like scum but then some of these people are like family men that like yeah you would know and it's the amount of people who are pedophiles is alarming it makes me look at people differently like out in public it's just like it could be literally anybody here like you can't it is such an epidemic it's a pandemic obviously i mean it's all over the place it is so so bad and the fact that there

are so many accounts that are able to bait these men in that like the second they put up profiles of like 13 year old girls their inbox is just like flooded with messages oh my god like what are you doing here it's like they get like something crazy like 50 hits in the first 10 minutes yeah it's scary and they all embolden each other they are all on signal and um what's the other one uh whatsapp no well whatsapp is another one yeah but signal and tele tele telegram yep not telegraph telegram it's like not an unencoded like chat oh place that like they all just like trade like images of children in and it's just there are tens of thousands of these people online uh-huh well and i know we've talked about this before but there are so many pedophiles

that there are not enough jails in the world to hold these people that is how prevalent pedophilia and child sexual abuse material is rampant yeah it's alarming it's scary like any man you know i'm sure it's like one of ten men that you know oh god it's repulsive it really is nauseating to think about the only comfort i find is like how quickly these dudes get killed in jail yeah because like the second that other inmates find out that they are child predators that's just it's prison justice from there because it's really like murderers think that they're just like the worst people in the world like that should say something it's just it's disgusting it's awful and it's just getting worse and worse i do also think honestly like

I think the conversation around porn is also very nuanced and my opinion on it has changed so dramatically since like we started this podcast I was about to ask you about that yeah which is just that like obviously I want porn stars and sex workers to have rights and be protected because I think everyone deserves that and also I think that pornography has done a lot to um like harm people yeah um not even just participating in it but like porn addiction often leads to like pursuing like child sexual abuse material um so because your brain just gets addicted to the shock and you're honestly your brain and your body they you you like hold on to big reactions and feelings so shame is a huge motivator of that

so seeing like sex simulated in front of you like can feel very shocking and shameful especially for the first time and like you just get deeper and deeper down this hole of looking for more and more shocking and disturbing things to have that feeling again it's adrenaline yeah you know because even though you know it's bad that's why you're seeking it out because you your body is addicted to this feeling of like even if it's bad it's still adrenaline it's still dopamine yeah yeah that's so true so i think that like the pornography industry has been really harmful for a lot of reasons but especially because of child sexual abuse material i i refuse to refer to it as child pornography because it's technically c it's c sam for short sexual abuse material

because the word pornography implies consent yeah and these children are not consenting no to this um and this does I think this is a good like entry because we we both just watched um quite on set which is a four-part documentary series allegedly fifth episode coming out in April um about Nickelodeon and the like horrors of like sexual abuse and um just some very questionable decisions on set regarding child actors and honestly it fucking sucks to watch because so many of us loved these shows yeah as kids and i was like such an all that oh yeah it was so fun the idea of like an snl for kids yeah and the when you watch it as an adult you see these things that are deeply inappropriate um like they're essentially making sexual innuendos

and when you're growing up too you're like well there has to be some jokes in here for adults who are watching it with their kids but that's not a joke no that's not a funny haha joke no as an adult i would have been very disturbed i mean a lot of parents on set too that they were like they were like is this for kids like yeah is this normal yeah and you know the people who are working in this industry know that parents don't know that you know and um like there are plenty of other shows that include adult humor that isn't inappropriate like shrek does a good job of including jokes that adults will find funny spongebob uh-huh um the fairly odd parents they did a lot of that um i remember the fairly odd parents i didn't realize this until i was

like a teenager re-watching an episode you know how the crazy teacher um always gives him mr crocker yes how he always gives timmy an f yeah he's like you get an f and he hits a button and a bomb comes out and it has an f oh the f bomb i was like oh clever that's so good but um yeah these nickelodeon shows they were ridiculous i mean like there there was a um frank sent me a tweet from salmon cat which i think was a spinoff from victorious yeah that um they were like draw a smiley face on the bottom of your foot and and tweet it to us and we'll retweet it as fast as possible because there was so much like obvious foot fetish shit yeah going on on nickelodeon at the time where it was like watching back at it like just looking back on it it was it was like they weren't even

trying to fetish content they weren't even trying to hide it no they had like on zoe 101 like little girls in bikinis they they also had a lot of like simulated cum shots which like these are these are children yeah and not even like a oh i could kind of see why that no it was like very obviously that that's what that was um a lot of the shit that they had ariana grande do was like ridiculous to look back on yeah and there's also like a lot of speculation so these are all dan schneider created and produced shows uh he was like nickelodeon's cash cow he created the original all that and that was kind of his first big like claim to fame and then he had the amanda show yep um and seeing these clips of amanda binds as a kid is honestly heartbreaking yeah because

she she was amazing such a brilliant talented girl smart such a young age like just seeing her clip the clips of her as like a 10 year old yeah i'm like this girl has like the best comedic timing and she's fucking 10 yeah so just seeing those clips and knowing what has happened to her now is just like devastating everybody failed her on every level and um uh some of the other shows are zoe 101 um i carly sam and cat drake and josh drake and josh and there's a big part of it that is dedicated to drake bell because he was um sexually assaulted by someone who worked on set brian peck the dialogue coach who groomed him for so long before attacking and like his dad saw it happening from a mile away and the second that his dad tried speaking out again like why

the fuck is this like 40 year old man trying to hang out with my 13 year old son yeah right and and brian peck was so strategic about getting his dad out of the picture and becoming basically drake's manager well because as drake's getting older you know he's like your dad isn't in this industry he shouldn't be your manager he's gonna hold back your career and this is like this kid's dream and it has been since he was a kid and like this is also a way that he bonded with his dad which was so heartbreaking like uh he said he had such a good relationship with his dad he did his dad seems like the sweetest little bean too but he's drake bell said he that the reason that he decided to speak out against this about not against us about this now is because his dad

is still blaming himself to this day for all of this happening I can't imagine the guilt to live to not be able to to feel like you're not able to protect your son when like look for anybody on the outside it's like he really did everything that he could well and then the I honestly I think one of the like worst pieces too is like afterwards so drake bell brings this man to court obviously um and he since he was underaged he he was his identity was kept anonymous um which i'm amazed it stayed anonymous for this long yeah well i mean can you imagine how fucking horrible it would be for nickelodeon to for that to get out but i mean how many people were sitting on brian peck's side in court nobody leaked that i know yeah it's just surprising i think that

whatever lawsuit they could have been slapped with would have been more money than they could have afforded that's true also oh well anyways after all of this motherfucker only gets 16 months in jail yeah uh and then what he had to register as a sex offender and got rehired at disney which is bananas um and then when they found out he's a convicted sex offender um and like child rapist um they fired him yeah but drake received like zero support afterwards like no one talked to him about it like he didn't go to therapy uh I'm just like okay sure yes his dad seems like a very sweet man but why would you not think that this kid would need some fucking therapy afterwards I mean it seems like what he like Drake just really kind of put his head down

and worked because that was before Drake and Josh even started like his career was just starting so i'm sure in his mind he was like i'm fine just gotta like keep my head down and just work i'm sure he disassociated he must have but it's the most heartbreaking part i mean the whole thing was fucking heartbreaking but one of the most heartbreaking parts for me was how many people wrote character witness statements on behalf of brian peck saying like that he was tempted he must have been tempted by drake like drake is like okay say that drake was tempting him don't you can't consent when you're 15 years old yes well and children don't understand sexuality right they they just don't yeah that is an adult thing and i one thing i think is very important that i do

also want to share because i want this to be a useful conversation for people yeah um i know that some of our listeners have kids maybe you want kids in the future i came across this tiktok that i thought was amazing okay so she is the daughter of someone who is a therapist for victims of child sexual assault okay and she shares these amazing helpful tips of um how like her mom raised her to like be able to talk about these things with her if something bad were to ever happened to her um her name is on tiktok is shrimp fairy i love that um fairy spelled f-a-i-r-y that sounds like a username you would use on like shrimp fairy on like yeah i fucking read it or something so when she's talking about this i was thinking to myself like as a kid there is a lot of

shame around conversations involving sex especially with your parents like any adult you just are like do not fucking talk to me about this yeah it's it's embarrassing there's also like a level of like it's bad that like you shouldn't do this and it's bad and like especially if you're raised religiously yeah um there's just going to automatically be a lot of shame surrounding sex um and when i thought about it too i was like if something like this happened to me as a kid i can't imagine telling my parents wow i like i would have just been like embarrassed a lot of kids think they're gonna get in trouble yeah yeah um because they've been taught that sex is bad not and shameful like so then it's like well now my parents are going to think i did something bad

and i'm a bad kid i mean a part of the grooming process is making the kid to feel like responsible for what's going on as well like because like oh well like because they that's these people do everything that they can to absolve responsibility if you're a kid too you don't know certain things so this grown adult could just lie to you yeah they could lie to you about what you're doing they could they also will threaten you and scare you if you tell anybody um i'm going to kill your whole family if you tell anybody you're going to get in trouble and no one will believe you yeah like they're they're adults who are like constructing this narrative because they know how to take advantage of children because there is just kind of this like we don't talk

about sex with kids because it's not for kids yeah but you need to have these conversations with children so they can communicate to you if something bad happens yeah to them i think if something bad happened to one of my friends i would have said something but if it happened to me i don't know if i would have told my parents just because of like the the way that they treated sex growing up yeah and so some of the advice that this girl gives she said that her mom taught her about this at like started having conversations about sex when she was like four and um she was not like hush hush secretive about it she was like very open and not judgmental you need to get it across to your kids like there's no judgment and if something happens you can tell

me and I'm not gonna be reactive I'm not gonna be mad at at you I'm not gonna be upset you like you need to be able to be open to receive this information without like upsetting your kid you know yeah like it i i'm sure it's very hard to not immediately like burst into tears and be like i'm such a terrible parent but like you need to think about your kid in that moment of like this is a traumatizing thing um i can't make this about me right now yeah and i need to like take next steps from there but um she like you have to tell your kids like what sex is what their body parts are and essentially like a lot of parents teach about stranger danger but statistically the person who's most likely to hurt you whether you are an adult or not

is someone you know it's usually someone your kid knows yeah in some capacity yeah um so to be aware of that like if if a grown-up is interested in having a friendship with you that's that's not okay yeah um there should an adult should never be interested in being your friend yeah um and if like your your kids need to know about their body and about what sex is and that it's for adult bodies only so they can tell you if someone touches them inappropriately yes and another thing that wasn't mentioned in this is if another kid touches them inappropriately it's probably because that kid is being touched inappropriately oh yeah they're just doing what is being done to them to somebody else um so those were some of the things that she had mentioned um i highly

recommend like seeking out uh her tiktok handle um and learning some of the ways that her mom like had these conversations with her so if she was ever endangered in that way she would know how she could like tell her mom like feel safe and okay telling her mom and like making it very clear and reiterating to her um you are not going to get in trouble an adult is the one who's making these decisions and what they are doing is wrong yeah what they are doing is wrong and what they are doing is harmful to you so you're not going to get in trouble yeah and that's so important too because it's when like kids just don't like you're saying they don't know what is happening to them is wrong when they're just like they're learning especially if you haven't talked to them

totally totally my I was the reason I grabbed my computer was because I keep having all these thoughts I want to bring up as you're talking so I wrote down some notes um something that my parents did with me when I was growing up was give me a password for like if an adult is ever like um your mom told me like that I can pick you up from school like I'm gonna I'm picking it so like come with me and to be like well what password did they what password did she give you because my mom would never give permission to an adult without saying and tell her this is the password so that helped me feel really safe with people growing up smart yeah it's genius um i think pulling this back to quiet on set i think specifically parents i mean all parents

obviously but like specifically in the entertainment industry because like these adults know that they have they have like draw over these kids careers so it's like do this thing or you're never going to work another day in your life like do this thing and I'll give you like the best role ever because like it really is that industry is all about who you know it's so like sparkly for kids you know it's like oh well I want to be I want to be on all that so like I'll do whatever this adult is telling me to do which is fucked and a mom in the documentary one of so one of the kids that was on all that that was just like an extra in something oh yeah got um sexually like assaulted like harassed by a pa on set yeah he was like emailing her yeah he was like oh i'm

getting all of the kids email addresses yeah and then like and then sent her a picture of himself masturbating and was like i just want you to know that like this is how you make me feel yeah a nine-year-old yep a nine-year-old and her mother was didn't want to call the cops because she felt like such a bad parent for letting this happen to her kid which i can't imagine that guilt to the point where you don't want to like yeah well because they have this person arrested why were you letting your nine-year-old daughter exchange emails with this like 28 year old man right and it's like well i don't work in the fucking industry i don't know it's normal and that also was devastating like that was also an email was like relatively new yeah that's like still the

age of like chat rooms uh-huh it's like how is this woman if she like doesn't really know how to use yeah the internet or emails or whatever right and it's like all the kids are emailing it's like cool new thing to do so like yeah go ahead i'm not going to tell my child who really wants to be in this industry not to talk to this person who's saying that they can help her career like that's such a catch-22 for a parent and i can't imagine the the pain of knowing that you allowed something to happen that led to something so horrible it's just it's unfathomable it i can't and i mean like we were saying before like it feels like it's just getting worse and worse the good thing about the internet right now is that like how we're able to air this shit out

so much more than we were back then like if nickelodeon was happening right now there would have been some sort of oh my god people would be protesting outside yeah exactly but it was like it was just it wasn't like it is now where like everybody has a voice everyone has an opinion everyone's able to rally people around like they didn't like the internet was new so they were able to get away with so much shit that they would just never be able to get away with now and it's really really sad to see because they're these people a lot of these kids like they were interviewing some people that were on all that that just like stopped acting after this and like some of them fell into alcoholism to cope they talked a lot about what happens with child stars after they

leave the industry um i think it's just also like they've done such a good job at crafting this narrative of like oh child stars they just like when they get older they can't handle the fame and like they can't handle what happened they got too rich too young blah blah blah and it's like no they were actually being abused and taken advantage of and now that trauma is surfacing yeah because you're an adult now you're like what happened to me wasn't right like and then you have to question your entire lived experience yeah and it's like are they crazy or are they just experiencing the repercussions of trauma and having a traumatic childhood right and and i mean being chewed up and spit out after like being in this whirlwind of an industry

being taken advantage of by adults for money specifically and um and then being cut when you hit puberty and then you have nothing you're literally just like left on the street and then you're you you're left to figure out what to do with your life after that and you're maladapted because you grew up in an environment where like kids don't normally grow up like leaving the abuse out of it the fame aspect of it coming back from that and just not having it anymore would be the most like how do I even re-enter a normal life yeah exactly and these people don't care about these kids at all like from from an interpersonal standpoint so no they're like thanks for the money bye exactly and I think that's the part that is also especially disgusting to me um I regularly

think about when i think about child stars i think about miley cyrus yeah and i think about when she was like 15 or 16 and did a photo shoot with annie leibovitz i know i had i have already talked to you about this i think it's good to bring up yeah she did this photo shoot with annie leibovitz which is a huge fucking deal to get a photo shoot with them and um she's wrapped in a sheet and the outrage from parents because miley cyrus is like not wearing clothes and then miley is forced to apologize for this photo shoot and the thing that like there were so many fucking adults in this room making this decision for this child yeah and they're they're putting the blame on her that's ridiculous yeah to me it's like no do you know how many adults

are in charge who were there telling her what to do and like even as a kid you are taught you are taught to be quiet to listen to adults and respect adults and like not cause any problems totally and up to that point that's what she had to do you are teaching them to listen to authority and never question it and that gets kids into dangerous situations yeah and so they're like i don't know or like i mean kids aren't getting themselves into dangerous situations but there are adults out there who know that this is how kids are being raised to be yeah who are taking advantage of that yes like i'm an adult i'm in charge i can also make this kid believe that mm-hmm they're not gonna tell anybody because i'm an adult right especially because they threaten

them yeah like you said or lie to them like oh this is okay mm-hmm this is a normal thing yeah yeah or they call it something that it's not we're just exercising it's i i was watching today this is kind of a shift but in the same vein um like arrest footage of this is just to tell you like what is on my fucking news feed on youtube whenever i open it my algorithm is sad but this was um like bad teachers getting arrested like getting caught being fuckers and this one was this teacher who like pulled this child this like 11 year old out of gym class to like help with her homework or something brought her back to the classroom alone which is already against the rules and then touched her inappropriately and the the student

he said in his interview with the police he was like no i know that if i ever did anything to her she would tell the entire school so like why would i ever do anything and it's like well you did and she did so like what do you mean like you obviously thought through that which is alone fucked up that premeditated yeah right but like the the fact that that little girl for also he had gotten in trouble in the past for tickling students what the fuck i know i know but the fact that she tickled is a very upsetting experience yeah it is it is regardless of who's doing it it's so upsetting but he had gotten disciplinary action for that in the past but she that little girl telling authorities or the principal or whoever what had happened probably saved so many

other kids which is ties back to what you're saying about like creating a safe space for kids to feel like they can like teaching them what's wrong for an adult to do to them and creating an environment where they feel like they can say like speak up when it happens yeah and know that they can come to you and you're not gonna like react yes like you're not gonna be reactive you're going to listen to them and hold space for them and take them seriously yeah like that is what I would want as a kid like totally like because when I think about it I'm like okay as a kid what would I have done and how would have I have like I'm sure maybe eventually I would have told my parents but I would have known that my dad would have lost his shit and my mom would have started like

hysterically crying there and like as a kid like when you have reactive parents you feel responsible for like mitigating their feelings like i knew when i was going to make my parents upset and you know that's just some other teenage bullshit right but as a kid if you're actually in danger it's like i don't want to tell my parents this because i know they're going to be reactive right so like it's it's on you as an adult to make the environment your kids need to feel safe telling you when something dangerous happens totally because it really truly if if not for just your child which is enough but also for all of these other kids that maybe don't feel comfortable having the conversation with their parents like it really takes one kid speaking

out against something that's happening to them to save a bunch of other kids yeah which is like it shouldn't be one kid's responsibility and that's not what i'm saying obviously but it is like that it can be the catalyst for so much just creating a safe environment for one child yeah that's true which it's like it's so fucked that like we even have to have this conversation and that like a documentary like quiet on set had to happen it's but it's it's the reality of it well and i'm thinking about it like yeah you could also be the parent that other kids feel safe telling yes things too yeah like that would have been nice to have as well yeah totally as a kid of like i'm too afraid to tell my mom but like i know i can tell this person and then they'll tell

my mom and i don't have to deal with it that was my parents with people growing up that people would always tell them everything like and that's i think my parents would be that parent like those parents for other people yeah but it's different when it's your when it's your parents exactly and like your kids yeah yeah you're gonna be very reactive if it's your own kid absolutely whereas like you know if i told my parents like um this thing that i know is either weird or not okay happened to one of my friends and i told my mom that she'd be like thank you for telling me and then she would go take care of it absolutely there are some times where you're like i know i need to tell an adult this yeah yeah another thing this girl had mentioned was just like

explaining to your kids like if someone touches you in a way where you're uncomfortable and you feel uncomfortable you need to listen to that your inside feelings yeah um because that's your inside feelings are sometimes the thing that is going to protect you yes of like oh this is not a good situation and i need to leave i definitely was more aware of that kind of thing as a teenager and getting older like i remember or i don't remember this my mom told me this um a like family friend who i always thought was weird when i became a teenager i like was in a i was staying with my parents in a hotel room and then he came up to use the bathroom and then i think like get something like maybe he was grabbing another beer or whatever and i'm just in there watching tv

like minding my own fucking business because i'm 16 15 16 i don't want to fucking hang out with you yeah and he comes and sits down right next to me on the bed and then i was like ew i don't like this what are you doing yeah and then i i just i think i like made whatever small talk and i was like yeah i'm gonna go uh hang out with my parents and then i like went down and i told my mom good what did she do uh she was like it's really good that you like listened to that feeling and you left yeah and i was just like he made me really uncomfortable yeah and then she was like as she i mean i don't know if she ended up saying anything to my dad she told me this story in front of my dad so yeah i'm sure that she did this guy has since died

oh shit i was about to say have we cut him off so i'm sure my dad was just like well god cut him off yeah i hope he's doing okay in dead yeah i hope he uh he just was very mentally unwell oh not that that's an excuse it's just like i feel like that was like the beginnings of like him spiraling out but still it's just like as a teenager you're more aware of like something's not right did you hear about this um dad who had his daughter's friends spend the night did you hear about this it was in the news like a month ago maybe um this dad had been like coordinating with this group of girls parents for his daughter's birthday party being like oh we're gonna like i'm gonna take them to get manicures and pedicures and then like they're

gonna spend the night you know and it was like very yeah like quote-unquote innocent like he like especially coordinating with parents exactly my parents would have loved that shit absolutely and he fucking knew that and his wife um was she didn't speak very good english so he was the one having the conversations but was like my wife is gonna be there anyway all this stuff he ended up making smoothies for all of these girls and like forcing them to drink it and one of the girls was like something is that feeling they were like 12 she was like something about this isn't right and didn't drink it and texted her mom and was like i don't feel safe don't like just i might not be able to answer but just come and pick me up like i just she like texted her over and over

and over at like two in the morning and oh my god she stayed awake and pretended to be asleep and was like keeping her eye on her friends and he would like come down and like look at them and make sure they were still breathing and shit yeah yeah but that feeling saved her and her friends because she knew something something was up and she felt comfortable enough to text her mom in that moment and be like i'll explain everything when i see you just like please come pick me up and nobody got hurt i mean they got drugged but like that like why the fuck are you drugging children yep and you said they were 12 yeah around around 12 and they all went to the hospital and they had drugs in their system so it was she was right about it and i'm certain that his defense

is like oh they probably like did drugs and they like wanted to blame me for it so her mom showed up and picked her up and then i think she must have picked up the other kids or maybe texted the other moms yeah they all came um but nothing as far as i know nothing happened his poor daughter can you imagine i mean i don't even what is she experiencing at home without her friends there well so circling back to that the ray and her mom um ren ren sorry that's fine ren and her mom um i someone stitched something about that and she was like i was a victim of c-sam like i like she was doing these things that were innocent that she was proud of like she was in gymnastics and like i think either gymnastics or dance and she finally like nailed this very

difficult um thing that you can do i'm trying to remember what it was but it's essentially like a split in the air and then her stepdad was like let's take a picture to document it and they had like their pelvises touching and they were like don't we're not going to share this picture with anybody because they were sharing this picture like both her parents were involved in this in distributing sexual abuse material of her and she's like and now i'm an adult and there are pictures of me as a kid that are still circulating oh my god it's so sickening these moments that she had as a child that she was so like proud of and like innocently enjoying are actually like being tainted and exploited by fucking creep asses yeah yeah so so fucking

I mean even if her dad isn't doing something like that like isn't actually like physically touching her or anything he could still be doing these things to exploit and absolutely yeah I mean it's not too far of a stretch of the imagination appalling it really is why is he drugging these kids there's no anyone's guess no excuse no this man better fucking pray yeah I mean he's fucked i'm pretty sure he like got his lawyer involved before having any conversations with the police too which is smart for anyone to do it's smart even if you're innocent it's good to get your lawyers involved because cops are crooked however okay all of these girls at this party that you're being exactly i mean he's obviously guilty he's obviously guilty but just

like go through this man's computer go through his phone side note if you're ever being questioned by the police even if you're innocent ask for a lawyer yeah that's all that's it but except except for this guy fuck this guy you're the only person that this rule doesn't apply to it's it really is it's scary it's scary to know that he went through like all of the like responsible avenues oh this was incredibly premeditated yes this is a very dark episode of i would i was just thinking that i know i'm like this i don't even want to end on a funny note because it doesn't feel appropriate no so should we just like end it yeah i think we're going to have to i think i'll also add a trigger oh a trigger warning at the beginning of this because yep that's a good idea it ended up

taking a very serious turn but i do think that this information is really important to talk about yes i think it's important for people to have these conversations with their peers and start thinking about like if you are planning on having kids you need to start thinking about how you're gonna have these kinds of hard conversations with them even though that's i feel like that sucks to say and is ominous but it's true yeah you want to protect your kids and like this isn't something i've ever thought about until i was watching this documentary and i was like i'm gonna need like if i have kids i'm gonna need to have a plan of how i'm gonna talk to them about yeah adults touching them inappropriately yeah yeah and

how to fucking look out for themselves it's crazy to i that's also why i'm like do i ever even actually want kids because it's scary i would be a basket case i don't know how i would ever let my kids leave the house no i've actually been talking about this a lot with frank i'm like i am going to be my kids are going to go to school in a bubble it's so hard to well especially in america there are so many things like first of all the guns you know it's just you shouldn't even have to talk about that but just like sending your kids off to school every fucking day not knowing if there's gonna be a school shooting by some lunatic and who purposefully wants to go kill kids because they know that's the most traumatic thing that can happen and

legislation will never do anything about it anyways um and then just how little support is provided for parents in america at any job you know like yeah you don't get nearly enough time off yeah when you've just given birth like even as like the parent giving birth like that is an open wound yeah that is an open wound in your body like you need to you feel like shit because you're healing your body's trying to heal it's inside uh-huh what do you get in america isn't the most you get is six months the most you get if you had six months oh my god it's a year a year in the uk and that already doesn't feel like enough it's not it's not i mean at least it's like well and then there's no support provided for child care like i don't know i i i know there

was like a study recently that was shared of like oh um child abuse and has like decreased it decreased during covid specifically people thought it would increase and then um because your kids are home all the time and then they thought the reported numbers are like oh well people are just seeing fewer kids so they can't report i was just about to say that abuse as much that was the first thing i thought but they also thought of that and that's also not true it's because parents were given stimulus checks to actually be able to take care of their fucking kids damn and families so it kind of just goes to show if you're providing the appropriate support to parents like it's it's better for everybody involved yeah which that also just blows my

fucking mind like if you're gonna be pro-life like you need to be pro-life the whole time yeah like you need to be like you need to go all the way in and be like yeah and we need to start giving money to parents to better provide for their children right i mean they the fetuses have more rights than a lot of outside of the womb people do yeah grown adults uh-huh which is bananas yep anyway that's a whole other conversation this is depressing yeah sorry for the sorry for the downer of an episode for my first episode back you know we it's an important conversation well next week we can have another downer episode that i didn't have time to talk about this thing um it won't be that sad actually um alpha male camps i have no idea what that is

but i love this cliffhanger um so i'll give you guys just a brief intro an alpha male camp i guess that's what you could call it is these grown men paying ten thousand dollars to twenty thousand dollars to essentially be abused oh fuck yeah to become an alpha male yeah oh oh no not abusing a not like sexual like not like consensual not dominatrix they sign up to basically like go through a combination of like military and fraternity hazing for 72 hours with the goal of becoming an alpha male that sounds like very beta behavior it's it's incredibly layered so that's just like the top layer high level but it honestly really dives into the epidemic of male loneliness which we could also get we haven't really talked much about that

yeah i think that that would be a fun conversation to have so or not necessarily fun but hopefully interesting and enlightening sad and important once again sad and important that's the that's the theme of we're going to rename the holy hour to sad and important and which is i like to think of myself i am both sad and important yeah hell yeah and so i'm actually not very sad i yeah i'm way less sad me too way less sad still very important exactly and so are you you're all important you're all the most important you're not sad either and we love you gatsby hated that his ears are going back his head was just whipping around he's like i'm trying to take a nap in front of the fire oh we're getting slow blinks you like the song okay we'll

try and have some more uh happy and positive anecdotes layered in between yeah that's our promise to you yeah that's our vow this i promise you okay bye