The Hoely Hour - E184 Gotta Kiss A Few Horsemen

Episode Date: May 17, 2024

We have all dated the Four Horsemen of Your Twenties, unfortunately. But we're all better for it. Liz and Amelia discuss Taylor Swift (and...disagree about something?!), and being in defense of being sad over a short-term fling. Liz also makes Amelia aware of the Bumble ad drama, which is...woof. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey. Hey. You just like breathed real loud the second I started recording. Welcome to The Holy Hour, a podcast about sex, relationships, mental health, and everything in between. I'm Amelia Sampson. And I'm Liz Ball. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at The Holy Hour.

I'm on Instagram and TikTok at Amelia Sampson. And I'm on Instagram and TikTok at Liz Ball So Hard. You can also watch us on YouTube or listen ad-free on Patreon at patreon.com slash theholyhour. Check out our merch at theholyhour.com and email us your spicy stories at holyhourpodcast at gmail.com. Got a Gatsby on my lap, see? You guys are big chillin'. We're big chillin'. His tail's getting a little sassy, so I feel like maybe he's gonna leave soon.

No, he doesn't have... That's not a sassy tail. Oh, really? Yeah. he's content oh my god i love him so much i have a wedgie but i don't want to i don't want to um awaken well he's mr congeniality so if he gets up he'll probably come over instead of my lap but then go back into yours this is everything i've ever wanted from a monday lay nearby i have to tell you i said multiple times this weekend i don't know how the fuck liz lived here when i was

in vegas because it's hot and weird no it's weird it's just weird it was it it is the most overwhelming place i've ever been like the second you step into the airport you're like oh what the fuck media overstimulation the baggage claim area is the scariest place i've ever been you know what i have to say that the seattle airport baggage claim is far worse oh my god it's just a stupid design airport is similar to the city in that it's like we're small we're a small city yeah like no yeah that's your airport is shit why is it so long yeah there's not enough seating it won best airport like a few years ago that is yeah here i will say sea tech airport has the best food i was just about to say that there is no other airport you know what i would say the

vegas airport it does a pretty good job too i with food and organization you know but sea tack airport definitely has the best i don't know how anybody can afford to live in vegas because like everything i mean vegas like the strip area it is lower like food like me and frank bought burgers the first night from fat burger in the hotel because we were just famished so we went a fat burger and spent like 65 bucks on two burgers it's like disneyland everything's marked up yeah so the people who work there aren't buying shit there and if they work there they'll they're going to get a discount yeah or they get stuff for free a bottle of water was eight dollars at a good hotel they have an employee buffet oh so like they just provide food for you already

i love that yeah i had an interview at the win once wow isn't that like the nicest one uh i was looking up i was trying to figure out when is still deeply problematic when i went down i when we were leaving at our flight was at six in the morning yesterday um so we woke up at four and my like a delirium rabbit hole was trying to figure out where taylor swift must have stayed when the super bowl was there and so i was looking up like the nicest hotels there and i'm pretty sure when was on their encore it's definitely yeah it's really nice one of the nicer ones but then i was trying to think like i haven't been there in a while though those hotels must have been booked out so far in advance it's interesting it's bold of you to think that she would stay

overnight why wouldn't she just jet off that's a very good point i hadn't considered that because she flew there that day from japan because she was on tour that's a good point i hadn't thought about that but i was also thinking do they have to kick someone out of their room to make room for taylor swift and frank was like no i feel like there's probably like always a suite open somewhere but it was the super bowl like i feel like those hotels must have been booked out like i feel like she'd be like i'm not fucking staying here yeah i would get the fuck out of there it's so overwhelming dude it's like it's glitzy and glammy and so fucking cool for like 10 hours and then you're like i need to get out of here it's so overwhelming it sucks but you know it's

okay i had a good time i really really like frank's friends did you uh gamble at all no yeah good that's probably a good thing yeah i knew i was looking for the sex in the city slot machine that you had mentioned i've only seen it at the flamingo so yeah no i had i had a good time like like i said i really really like his friends they were all so nice i really like all of his friends like wives and girlfriends which is also dope everyone was so welcoming which was such a change from what I'm used to with meeting my partner's friends um notably just like one of them but it was a lot of fun and I don't know if I'm ever going to recover energy wise I mean Vegas will do that it do be doing that there's so many billboards for sex workers I was like fuck yeah Vegas I think

it's decriminalized let's see i'm pretty sure it's decriminalized i could be talking out of my ass under specific circumstances because i don't know if you've heard of the bunny ranch no um i do remember that the bunny ranch is like this is i know this is not the right word it's like a brothel there we go okay um however prostitution is illegal in clark county which is las vegas oh it's only legal in douglas county eureka lincoln perishing and washoe and it's only brothels so like where you can actually like pay for sex it'd be interesting to see how much safer it is for sex workers in those areas like how much like how many of them go missing or like how many of them are like being abused by like pimps because when you make it legal there's no

need for pimps because they don't need anyone to take care of them have you i don't know if we've talked about this on the podcast or if you've seen this there's like an episode of south park where butters becomes a pimp and he like well he becomes a pimp for like his school there's like a girl who starts like giving out kiss it like kissing boys behind like the building at lunch and you pay her like five dollars or something or i don't know a bit but butters makes it into a business and then he starts recruiting other girls to do it and then he takes like a small cut of it that's to like get the customers um and then actual sex workers uh start to come to him and they're like we heard you're like a really good pimp and then they like unionize and they

have um health insurance oh my god and he goes to like a convention and it's like everyone's like uh you gotta like show these bitches who's boss or whatever and he's like i take care of my bitches that's amazing i do south park really like hits the nail on the head i if you re-watch like some of their really old stuff too it still is relevant yeah and in some ways you're like wow how could they write something so like permanently relevant and then in other ways you're like oh we've just like been this fucking stupid for this long yeah like our country can't improve in any capacity yeah that is kind of a sad like like bookmark in time where it's just like we've progressed so much and it's like no we actually haven't it's in most ways we haven't we keep making the same mistakes

in technology we've progressed that's about it i i was thinking about how just like we have all this stuff happening but then there's also just like the smartest people in the world like who are like i don't even have time to be fucking thinking about whatever you guys are thinking about yeah i am making discoveries yeah i was high the other night and thinking about how it's incredible that there are people who are so fucking smart that they can just like have a theory and uh prove it and like be right about it and it's like a brand it's like a whole new discovery yeah that is crazy it's absolutely crazy and understanding how i think about this all the time with people that invent things like there are so many things where i'm like why the fuck

didn't i think of that like somebody was telling me about um like lidocaine specifically for high heels so you can like be in high heels for longer it like makes your feet not hurt in heels and it's for your feet and I'm like this makes like obviously but some people just have that kind of way of thinking where it's like here's a problem that needs to be solved or like here's a question that I have there's a way for me to answer it that's crazy to me like just the shit that I like random I'm kind of thinking about here and there I had watched a space video and I was like someone just like knows enough about space and science and math that they were able to come up with this they were just like probably like oh i wonder about this thing yeah i wonder if it

could be possible through this and then they like fucking prove it that's crazy it doesn't make any sense to me or like we're able to like land things on the moon that doesn't make any fucking sense to me you have to like figure out like the speed that the earth is going and like the speed that you need to launch this thing for it to just like land perfectly on this like rock it just makes it makes zero sense to me speaking of space a lot of stuff did you see the aurora borealis the second night i did not i'm so fucking i stayed up late last night because we were supposed to be able to see it i had like all of these alerts turned on to remind me i haven't been able i i checked too like the second night well in the first night i don't even know if it was actually

like visible from where I am it was also like not visible to the naked eye for most people but your phone would capture it that's so a lot of the pictures that you're seeing on people like that people are posting it's that's just because like your phone camera has like more sensors to be able to pick up that light oh interesting yeah I didn't know that yeah well because the first night I saw like a white trail yeah through the sky and I was like I think that's probably it anyway should we talk about sex i like space yeah let's talk about sex things two bitches who don't know anything about space talking about space yeah that's the podcast i i would listen to that honestly it's just like two people like getting high and talking about space

that's a great somebody should do that that is what my internal monologue is most of the time when i'm high i'll be watching something and then i'm like whoa yeah dude wow you should watch some like um space theories not space theories but um like physics theories about like time when you're high it is that could make that might make me have a meltdown i feel like i'm i'm mid existential crisis right now um anytime i think about death i freak out a little bit dude i've been wanting to talk to you about this i have been for the past like two weeks i can't stop thinking about death i feel like barbie do you guys ever think about dying irrepressible thoughts of death yeah like it has been so front of my mind just the past couple of weeks i've always been afraid of dying

but it's been so i've like watched ted talks about like death and dying to try to like ease my mind about it i have therapy tomorrow thank god but like the thought of us just dying and then we're just dead for forever is crazy to me makes religion makes so much sense when you think about it that way because it's just like it's so scary otherwise yeah i think about that too i'm like yeah no wonder people made up religion to like give them peace of mind yeah but also like religion exists to remind fucking idiots to like not be a shitty person but then they're like i'm gonna be so not shitty that i'm gonna treat other people badly when they don't follow my religion mm-hmm it's like the horseshoe uh-huh yeah you really get so so close to being what you're

trying to preach against you're almost there you're almost there um uh anyways anyway what topics do you want to go tit for tat on topics sure i have two so the first one though that i have is about ozempic oh um so mr liz had sent me a instagram reel because he's not on tiktok um and it's like that song that's like oh oh oh it's magic but i was like ozempic that's so good we know you were fat not long ago but it's about celeb it's like celebrities yeah before and after and then they're like i just started like drinking water and we're yeah yeah just own up to what you're doing like it's so dangerous it's like people getting like plastic surgery i think it i think it's because they know they shouldn't be taking ozempic like you're they are yeah it's so

fucking hunger games of them to be like taking ozempic to be skinny yeah and this is a medication that is like needed for diabetics yeah it's like it's like a life-saving thing for diabetic people when everybody was taking the lupus medication for um for the coronavirus oh my god do you do you remember that and people with lupus couldn't get their covid or their um their medication that they needed because everyone was stockpiling it for covid people are so fucking stupid it's ridiculous i mean it was you know it was a trump thing anyway just drink bleach by um anyways here's the thing with ozempic um that a recent development um people on ozempic are getting pregnant because it lowers the effectiveness of um birth control and i think

it might be might only be the birth control pill but i'm not sure oh my god um it could don't quote me on that okay if you're first of all don't be taking ozempic please or medical advice from us we're like we're yeah well we're for sure gonna like see in our lifetime those like lawsuit commercials it's like were you a patient who tried ozempic between this year and this year yeah you could be eligible for absolutely compensation so um yeah it lowers the effectiveness of birth control but it also has been proven to be helpful for women with pcos getting to to get pregnant really yeah that's amazing yeah so i think it's really interesting just like you know there's not a lot that is known about this also i don't know i listened

to a maintenance phase episode about ozempic because ever since i came out like or became like a mainstream thing for people um to lose weight I have been like pretty vehemently against it but that's also because I'm like just just take care of your body thinness is not the answer like everyone's supposed to be a different size yeah and these celebrities look ridiculous the ozempic face is such a real thing their eyes are like sunken in they're like look like is this really better is this really better than just like being happy and not having nasty ozempic farts is that real oh yeah your farts are gonna smell terrible did you see that drake takes ozempic does he really yeah i mean that's like there was the leak that they it's a whole thing with

this kendrick and drake beef but the short the short version of this is that um there was a when drake or when kendrick released his diss track meet the grams against drake um he had like a picture of like all of like a lot of drake's things like his shirt like some of his receipts and then at the bottom there was a box of ozempic with um audrey graham on it yeah which you know maybe he has diabetes maybe he does maybe but i don't think he does it's bbl jersey i saw a tiktok of someone saying like you either like listen to chapel roan or like you know what's going on between drake and kendrick and i was like that is so true i have no i just get my updates from you i'm happy to do that i get all my updates from frank so it's game of telephone

wait so what's your topic um it was so i have two thoughts one of them we talked about previously but it's one two two thoughts that's us baby it's the alternate name for this podcast also side note gatsby has been cleaning grandpa for so long and i'm just waiting for it to turn into fight night he's just gonna puke up a hairball later this is so cute i fucking love when cats do this it's like what the fuck man they don't snuggle they just need to do no oh gatsby just cleans grandpa frank walked into the um oh we were in the car he was dropping off polly before we left for Vegas and I was in the car crying at a video of these two cats where they each had a litter of kittens and they were taking care of each other's kittens because the one that just

had the kittens most recently was so tired so the other one brought all her kittens over to be with her kittens so she could watch them all at once while the other mom rested and I was sobbing in the front seat I thought it was so cute anyway um back on track Stamson so we've talked about this in the past but i want to bring it up again because taylor swift released the tortured poets department 31 songs i still have not listened to it's art it's art um but everybody was expecting the album to be about joe alwyn who she was with for like eight years and like 90 of the album is about maddie healy who she was with for like a month and they it was like a reignited flame from 2014 but they like kicked back into high gear for like a month and now like a lot the

majority of the songs are about him and we talked about this thing in the past that i'm about to bring up in terms of the 10-minute version of all too well being about a three-month relationship when she was 21 2021 yeah and like being in defense of short-term relationships and why they hurt so badly and how a lot of the time they can feel as detrimental if not more detrimental than a long-term relationship a lot of the time and the psychology behind why that might be and I just wanted to revisit that conversation because I have a few questions and thoughts um realistically how much time did they even spend together you know we don't know but there were a few pictures of them together how do we know that most of it's about him because she like makes it

pretty obvious like she'll she'll reference things in her songs that are like so she does it in a way that's like if you know you know and there's no question but it's not enough for it to be like dear john that's like clearly about john mayer you know what i mean yeah there was also a line in one of the songs about him leaving his typewriter at her apartment and she's like who the fuck he's a typewriter anyway and he's been on interviews saying the one thing he can't live without is his typewriter so it's like stuff like that that's like you can dig in and really see that's so pick me of him yeah he's such a pick me um what was oh my assumption was because before this album came out she had released those like playlists on apple music or whatever of her own

songs and it was like the phases of grief or the stages of grief and so i thought that these songs were just going to like be about those times i suppose yeah someone had said that like they were comparing some of her old songs and how they sounded like the songs on this album and i was like well i thought that was supposed to be on purpose because i think i think it was it's like a reflection of what was actually happening behind the scenes yeah with taylor swift it feels like nothing is an accident like she's been known to like plan things years in advance to prep for what she's going to do two years into the future you know what I mean so it's like I feel like that those kind of things where songs sound like her old songs are references to that but might not

be about the same topic you know what I mean it's like the same emotion but a different person okay do you see what I mean yeah yeah yeah that could just be that's how I interpreted it but yeah this is this album more than any other album in my opinion like other than like lover where she was only with joe it's so obvious who every song is about like she this she has a song called the alchemy that's like has so many football references in it it's stuff like that like i don't know it's yeah my i go i don't know maybe this is just like my i don't think it's a controversial or like necessarily a hot take i kind of think it feels a little like kind of tired at this point because it's like how

grief obviously comes in waves you know but the whole like if you are continuing to like kind of pick at the same old wounds like you're not really growing from that so that's kind of like how my impression was of this being super self-referential totally like okay well if you're ruminating on the same stuff like where where is the reflection of like growth and growing and rather like it seems more so like uh being like and then i dated this dumb guy or i dated this great guy yeah but it's like but what about you yeah what did you learn from it it feels like she uses her i mean her whole career has been opening up about things that she's going through that are so so relatable like that's what her like oh yeah that's why she's so incredibly popular too is

because the the relatability of just being a girl and like feeling like having these big feelings and like that being like an average and everyday experience and um having these songs that exist that perfectly encapsulate like these big feelings that you are experiencing throughout your life like and them being so relatable i think is like what where the draw is to where a lot of it is like oh okay this person understands how i'm feeling yeah and to kind of go about your life feeling like just a girl like insignificant and um your personal stories aren't they don't seem as important as they feel to you yeah if that makes sense and now there's a place where like no my my experience is important yeah yeah no that's that's exactly it it's like it makes

people feel like they are allowed to feel how they feel about things which is like what like the whole short-term relationship thing like it can sting yeah I was I was gonna try and tie back to your original topic I mean that's exactly it I mean I guess my my main like I'm gonna have like an opposing opinion to you probably because i'm like okay realistically how much time could you actually spend with this person when you're like preparing to go on a tour you just went through a breakup are you spending every day with this person to the point where he's able to like make you this upset he does seem like he's really fucking annoying um i don't uh but then also i'm like okay you're also a 33 year old woman dating this guy for a month uh-huh yeah no i mean i agree

with you i and i think a lot of people do and that's what like the thing with maddie healy i think is that she's not 21 anymore no you know she's not 21 dating a guy who's 10 years older than her and kind of taking advantage of that totally it feels like from her words that he like really manipulated her he was like putting like she would have a ring on her middle finger and he would like put it on her ring finger like he would just like do little shit like that and she was like oh my god like this person came back into my life that was in my life before and like he's doing everything that i wanted him to do and then he just disappeared you know like because he ghosted her was like she said on one of like he tried one of the lines is

like you tried to buy pills from friends of my friends and then they ghosted you now you know how it feels like he he really like he like love bombed her and then disappeared and so i feel like that would piss me off yeah it just makes you feel small um and also for you to go through an eight-year relationship with she released a song from the vault from midnight's um you're losing me that was about joe and it seems like it was a very like tumultuous end and like a really long drawn out demise and she'd still dedicated 90 of the album to this like one month relationship like a it must have really fucked you up but also how much time can you really spend with this person but he was traveling he like went to a few of her shows there's like pictures of him like in

a box like swooning and it's just like how can you do that and then ghost and there's obviously context that we don't have but i think that's such a relatable thing where you feel like somebody is so so into you and then they just like dip and it's like what the fuck and then you you're left just being like what the fuck happened i don't have any answers there's all these like unrequited like like emotions and feelings and i guess when you're like when you're leaving this like kind of shit relationship yeah um and you know probably had like that kind of a drawn out breakup like you're saying and then like someone makes you feel excited again and then they love bomb you yeah and do a bunch of things that embarrass you yeah yeah i'm like

yeah maybe i would write a lot of songs about that totally she's a song called on the on like at least uh at least her ex joe like they had a whole relationship yeah you know yeah right she has a song called straight out of the slammer on this new album that's about that about like coming out of like a relationship that felt like jail and like having god somebody like like sweep you off your feet and like make you feel so desired and it's just like the the range of emotions that you can go through in such a short amount of time it gets so dismissed so so regularly like there have been people that I've dated in the past that like never even turned in anything like music man is a great example that I was like hooked on for like a year and nothing really ever

flourished from that i think this is a great segue into my next topic oh please um so i had been texting um my best friend anna over the weekend because we were we've been texting about um girls because they started i started listening to a girls rewatch podcast uh shout out hbo girls rewatch um i fucking love those little gen z hosts they're so funny um and i also love hearing their like interpretation of something that was made when we were in college you know um so we kind of like saw that when we were in a similar age group as the girls and girls as those characters and then like now it's kind of monumental yeah at least in girlhood yeah and like re-watching it when you're older and kind of reflecting on that experience in your 20s so we've kind of been

texting about that and then when i was listening to the rewatch podcast one of them said like um they were like yeah there's so many like fucking freaks just in they said in brooklyn like um but just like weird people who suck um and the one of the hosts was like yeah and they only exist to date girls with low self-esteem i was like oh my god that's accurate yes like when you're in your early 20s there's totally that brand of dude who like fucking sucks yeah um but i as we were talking i was like there's like the four horsemen of men that you date in your 20s oh my god um we have the guy who is a loser but you're obsessed with him um like maybe he doesn't have a job and he like is not considerate at all and for

some reason you are absolutely digmatized by this mediocre looking man yes who maybe seems a little artistic yep oh my god that's the poet for me we all have one we all have one

and then we have a guy who's fun but you know it's just a fling you're like yeah like yeah I really enjoy hanging out with this guy because he's just like maybe fun and spontaneous or interesting but you know it's just like not gonna last it's not it's just a for now type of situation because

like big picture this isn't someone that you could have a future with and maybe they're aware of that too you know so you're just kind of having uh fun with it for the time being and then um i have so many of those the third is a guy you date just because he likes you yep you know you're like oh i i like i'm excited that like this person likes me and maybe you know maybe they're a likable person like yeah they're funny and attractive and they have a good job and you're like okay on paper everything about this person is great and i like i like that this person likes me yep and not necessarily you're not thinking like but do i like them do i have that little like spark inside of me or like is this the type of person that i can see me having a future with

because you do have especially in your 20s there's this lack of awareness of like if you're repeating a pattern oh yeah it's like is this your type or is this a pattern so this could be the person where you're like okay i'm trying to break out of my pattern and on paper this person's perfect but that can still be true but you guys still might not have like the same you might not have a good connection totally like good chemistry yes um and then the last one is um a guy that hates you and you probably also hate him oh you guys just fucking hate each other oh yeah and you're like we're gonna get married yeah we are so in love but also we fight every single day that's the guest i for all of these i have like quite a few that can fit underneath each category

yeah and then you ended your 20s having surpassed the four horsemen maybe you need to you need to date these four men before you find the right one oh my god it's like you got to kiss a few horsemen don't look a gift horseman i don't know yeah yeah hold your horsemans i love that that's so fucking true it's so true and it's so important to date all of those guys well because i was thinking about the different types of guys that i dated and yeah one of them i was like no like we did not like each other yeah i don't know like um and then i was like why did i date him yeah and i think it was just because he was he wanted to date me and i was like well i do want a boyfriend and you're a willing participant so yeah and I guess you're fine but you're four

years older than me oh yeah I was 24 and he was 28 but I'm just like I genuinely like did not enjoy his personality yeah that's how that's how the poet was for me I'm like this guy's fucking annoying like I wish that someone had I wish future me could have sat past me down and been like okay i'm gonna i need to put a few things into perspective for you um a 28 year old adult man should not have anything in common with you you're 24 you just turned 24 you just left college yeah it's too old this this person doesn't even have like a job yeah oh my god like he does but it's not like a career it's not a job job right but and i think at that point too i was like well I don't want to work in retail forever so like who am I to judge you know yeah but at 28

come on yeah let's let's let's start to figure it out right well because then when I was 28 I was like I don't even know what the fuck I would talk to a 24 year old about no that's the thing I always want I mean like it is a maturity difference between men and women but yeah well and then when Mr. Liz was 28 I was so I'm having these milestones where I'm like or not milestones but just like these moments where okay now i'm the age that this person was yeah and then now my partner is the age that this person was yeah and could you see mr liz like no i don't know being interested in a 24 year old i think he'd be like oh my god you do not know anything also he's kind of an old soul he totally is so yeah yeah but i'm just like we did not even like

like we did not like each other like why were we dating I mean everybody has a few of those and it really is like I said just so important to like go through all of those because like you really you learn something about yourself in all of them and also like you were saying like I wish I could sit past me down I if I had an opportunity to talk to past me about any of this I wouldn't like because she'll figure it out like it does feel like like it made me better for going through all of that I'm happy that I did the times where I like feel like I regret some people I'm like no everything's a lesson or a blessing if you got engaged to someone that all your friends hated would you and they hadn't told you would you have would you want them to tell you yes

absolutely it's a situation one of my friends is in really yeah I was like you absolutely she was like they just got engaged it's not her friend it's a family member yeah and I was like um no I think that she's like I don't want to isolate her and I was like you can do both like you can say like this is genuinely what I think but your happiness is the most important thing to me I just like needed to say this because I would regret not letting you know I guess it would depend on what the reason is for why they hate him like if it's something like problematic or like could potentially become problematic I would definitely want to know but if it's just a personality quirk I'd be like no it's a problematic situation I would want to

know that because then it's like if she gets out of that and people are like oh thank god like everyone that has been in that situation that I'm like I eventually tell them I never liked them they're like why didn't you say anything and it's like oh I don't want you to feel like you can't talk to me about it I well I remember when um me and my ex broke up everyone was like oh sigh of relief thank god and I was like I had no idea you all hated him so much yeah like it makes sense yeah he's not nice right and he's really not nice to me yeah and um I was just like it does it I think it's worse to hear after the fact when everyone's like oh thank god we fucking hated him because then you're like well I'm heartbroken yeah so that hurts and like you were just gonna

what were you what you were just gonna like let me potentially marry this person who is not nice to me and like yeah I don't know totally yeah it's tough it also depends anything you're gonna let me do that it my parents too really I think that was the most like kind of shocking thing i was like you're not you guys didn't say anything yeah and i was like like you you knew that we were talking about getting married and you hated him and you weren't gonna tell me i'm your daughter yeah that's tough it is though i feel like there's been so many instances where people have brought up like that they don't like someone's significant other and it's just like caused a rift between yeah i think it needs to be handled appropriately yeah and

that's tough because it's like when your emotions are involved too like if you're a parent and like you have such like your emotions are so tied into how happy your child is it's hard to not like get emotional having that conversation I do remember when my ex and I were breaking up I didn't sleep and I called my mom at like five or six in the morning she's like why is my daughter awake yeah my mom is driving to work um and I was like um well I think that like me and my boyfriend are in a breakup and then um I am obviously I think I was crying um and then my mom started crying and then she was like as a parent like you want your kid to be with someone you know is gonna love them as much as you do yeah and i don't think that he does elizabeth and then

i started sobbing and i was just like damn to hear your mom crying and saying like this person does not love you the way i love you yeah because it's true it's like you don't want to see your kid going through that no no whoever my kids end up with better fucking act like they walk on water or there's going to be hell to pay that's my mom coming through me that's it's really like I can't imagine just based on how I feel when my friends are dating idiots I can't even imagine having my child dating an idiot I don't understand why people are in relationships that don't make them happy and I'm saying that as someone who did that and I you know I don't know why I think the reason I did that is because I thought that was the best I could do you know it was a lot

I came from a place of low self-esteem but then you know now and I think that I can think that now because I'm in a relationship with Mr. Liz yeah who is the best boyfriend ever yeah and like we genuinely enjoy our time together and like doing things together and living together like it's so fun living together and I'm like how you see people on TikTok in these awful relationships and they're like why did you make that choice it has to be a codependency thing or like an like an you get so intermeshed with your person that even though it's really bad you can't imagine being a person not fucking ridiculous it really is i don't know none of us make any sense but we get addicted to people it's like a real addiction it's it's wild like the especially

if they're like manipulative absolutely i was with my ex for like three or four years past when we should have been broken up and it was it was really about that it was just most of this is so interesting i can't remember if i mentioned this in an earlier podcast like more recently in my gut i knew early on when a relationship was not going to work out yeah like i remember that the ex who was four years older than me i remember pretty early on when we were dating he like he didn't do anything specifically that like gave me the ick but I just remember like him being at my apartment and I think maybe he was laying on the ground and I was like thinking like he he got on my nerves yeah or something about him and I was like this is not gonna be

a long-term thing and then I like wish I had ended it way sooner I wish I had listened to that gut feeling of like this is not the person for you like you don't need to be tolerating a relationship that you're not happy in absolutely yeah when it's like a you're not happy kind of thing it's so well and then even with my like my big ex you know yeah I when we started dating I told one of my friends I was like I think that this is not gonna be a thing like I was like I think maybe this should just be like a hookup or something and um I don't know I think just with the place in my life I was in I was like this will work yeah this will do he also razzle dazzled me with just like pretending to be someone he thought I would want to be with

for those first like two to three months and then after those three months you're like wait where is this like person that I thought you were that's so unfair it's it's difficult hold on for another like three years yeah hoping it'll come back it's like you're chasing the dragon you're chasing that like first hit of the high that you got yeah it's difficult to pull apart whether or not like you it was a gut feeling or just an initial reaction like when I first met frank I was like just a hookup you know what I mean and it was like not rooted in anything real you know what I mean it was just like a very like I don't know he's like cool but like I think we're not probably not going to be compatible I think that what's different for you is one that you

were older than I was when I was making my dumb decisions and I think that you knew yourself a lot better than i did um and i also don't think that you were closed off you know you weren't going to make something work that you didn't think was gonna work totally so i think you gave it a genuine chance you're like yeah i still enjoy this guy's company and like he's fun hanging out with like yeah and then you know by date three you're like no i'm real smitten i like this guy you and mr liz knew that was gonna happen i remember when we threw that little surprise party for you when you got promoted do you remember that uh-huh um and I was it was like right when Frank and I I think we had been on like our first solo date at that point and I was like he just like came up in

conversation and Mr. Liz said something that was like along the lines of like no I don't know I think this is like a I think I like this one yeah well I you know he has me in his ear too yeah he's like paying attention he did this he did that for her yeah he's like that is so late he he was all about it he was really excited about it and then pretty early on we were talking about this recently I know I was telling my mom I was like oh yeah and Amelia lives with her boyfriend and she's like wait really already and then I was like yeah I mean to me it feels like they've been together for like 10 years I don't know and um I was telling her how me and Mr. Liz he I think we had just gotten done hanging out with you guys at something and he was like how long before you

think they move in together and I was like well this is what they've said yeah and then he was like but do you actually think that and I was like no yeah of course not and I was like I would say before the end of the year and you were right and yeah he was like yeah he was like I think maybe like six months or something yeah you guys were both right because it was like six months yeah it's wild to think about if we would have waited till the end of my lease which would be june so next month wow i i don't know what i would be so fucking over it like not living to it's it's hard to imagine not living together me and mr liz were the same distance apart like uh that you guys are yeah or were and that drive fucking sucks it's so annoying yeah like god we're too old to be

making this drive yeah absolutely it just took too much out of your day together yeah yeah right the plan around it yeah let's just like god damn it that reminds me of that's actually it leads into my next topic which is a short thought but can you pull up tiktok oh yeah i have i have a tiktok to guide this conversation okay do you want to read it okay so i'm gonna read this guy to filth real quick so um i do genuinely like this shirt he's wearing a knit polo um the buttons are unbuttoned a little too low i would prefer if it was buttoned all the way up and he's wearing a chain and that's always a little questionable yeah um but he definitely looks like he's too old to be trying to pull off this look you know and the genre yeah yeah um he's

got like the floppy boy hair but his face is giving like 45 year old man um his pants are a little high but that being said um it says at the top when women finally meet a man who has ambitions is loyal asks you out at 12 p.m and not 12 a.m and talks about his feelings and that's him in his little get up his little knit polo uh and then there's another like it's like another splice of him but he's supposed to be a girl so he's wearing a towel on his head yeah to make it look like hair like long hair like long hair and then um she says i like you as just a friend and then it it cuts back to him and has question marks over his head and then he just looks at the camera and smiles so here's my thing do men know this is i'm this is super pick me of

him it is he's like look at me i'm like a i'm he's going for like the golden retriever boy look yeah but being like well i do all these things that you said you like why don't you like me he's trying to appropriate the guys that he's seen like this is not what i think this is what i think he thinks he's seen these guys be like rewarded with pussy and he's like oh okay well i'm gonna do all that yeah and then women will like me yeah it's like no it's it's not that cut and dry it's also just like basic respect like yeah it's like you don't you don't deserve sex because you like these things i think that these men forget that these aren't just boxes for you to check you genuinely need to be this person and it's important chemistry is important

what if they just don't like you like men have all of these requirements and still like if the woman isn't like attractive to them or they just don't like them they're not gonna date them yeah right exactly it's like but so the difference is like a preference versus like basic human decency you don't get like a parade because you're like you respect a woman this is kind of like what we were talking about last week there's like this group of men who are violent and hurt women they hurt everybody but they especially like are abusive to women and then there's like other guys who are like that's really bad that's like the worst type of guy you can be and within that subset of men there's a group of guys who are like well just because i'm not that then i am

exceptional i am an exceptional man because i don't hurt women physically yeah and that line of thinking is just like it's so black and white and it's also not accurate because like you're a person you know how to be a fucking person yeah like i i guess i just don't understand the kind of like treating women like like a video game you can win or something like it's not like that yeah it's there aren't rules like that yeah but it makes you wonder like is it do they view themselves as being able to be pursued in that way if they think that that's how it works for the for women I mean I think that we all have been lied to but I also think like men have especially been lied to about what to

expect in their adulthood yeah so and we've had those kind of conversations countless times on the podcast of just like you know we have our generation of men and there's just such a range of type of guy like they they're so many of them have been misled to believe that like they're going to have a wife that was like their mom yeah um because their gendered expectations haven't been challenged as often or for as long as we have been challenging our own gender roles and expectations yes so now you have this wave of women who saw our moms like work themselves to death like being a caregiver and a homemaker and um a wife and personal chef and all this other shit and have to have a full-time job yeah and so you have these spoiled boys who are like well

that's what i expect my wife to do because my mom did it yeah and then all of us daughters saw that and were like fuck that I'm not doing that yeah I've watched you slave away endlessly in every corner of your life and forfeit your personal identity to be a wife and a mother yeah and you you have like no longer any personhood and I don't want that yeah so I'm not going to be in a relationship with someone who enforces um or expects that type of relationship yeah that's that's just not how i want to live or spend my time or whatever yeah they wouldn't want to do that that's why they're not doing it yeah yeah they want to be taken care of and you know what that's fine if you want to be baby girl be taken care of you should be vocal about that

and also like earn it you know what i mean like don't be just like the least likable person on the planet and be expected to be taken care of like you become baby girl when you earn the title yeah well and i mean we've we have talked about this too of just like traditional relationship expectations i am not against that at all if that's what you want to do in your relationship totally fuck yeah go for it but there's still parameters in place like if you want a trad wife you need to be a trad husband okay you got to be bringing in the cash yeah because i don't know if you know this but it's expensive to fucking exist yeah and it's only getting more expensive yep um yeah but my my beef with this guy on tiktok specifically he it's just like he's like

okay i put all of these nice guy coins into this vending machine where's my sex and that's how all of them think i mean like this genre of men yeah how all of them think i'm like yeah you're you're like totally trying to like appropriate the type of dude who is genuinely like caring and artistic and goes to therapy and like is on this app talking about those things yes and they're not here virtue signaling you are yep you're virtue signaling because you're seeing women applaud them for like breaking gender role expectations and holding himself and other men to higher standards so you think you're doing that but literally all he's listing he's listing what he does for himself like he's not listing like how he improves other

people's lives does that make sense but also like i talk about my feelings it's like okay well are you like a good listener do you care about the other person i don't know but i guess it's also just a tiktok so it's not that fucking deep well but it's just the most basic of of expectations that anyone should have for anyone like not being a booty call asking about your feelings listening um like having your own personal ambition like those are all things that's just kind of like okay that's like the basis what could what what in this comment his comment sections are all guys oh yeah and all guys being like i'm a nice guy there are girls and they're like thank you so much for saying this i don't know why nice guys get turned down so much it's like because they're

not nice guys sorry to all the friend zoned men in the comments there's still women out there who like good guys they're not gonna fuck you girl girl they're not here yeah those nice guys you're talking about or elsewhere it's giving i'm a nice guy oh and then here's here's the comment that brings home what we were talking about do you like the physical or mental abuse better from a bad guy and it's like okay just because you don't do those things doesn't make you exceptional yeah it doesn't make you special it doesn't make you a good guy just because you don't do those things right right the bar is in hell the bar is in hell i know that's such like an overused like cliche phrase but it literally it is like we have to expect more from these people um i think this

is a perfect segue into my next topic i love how all these have been flowing i know we're brilliant i love this we didn't even plan this the bumble ads have you seen the new bumble ads no you haven't heard about this okay um the bumble ads there's a bunch of billboards i believe in california perhaps in other places but the ads for bumble say um a vow of celibacy is not the answer uh-huh uh-huh and people online are like what the fuck are these ads because it first of all you can you can be celibate and date yeah and uh are they trying to be like tinder no they're they're targeting women they're saying like well because bumble is supposed to be the app for women yeah and women are sick of dating yeah and because because like there are so many things

that fucking suck about dating and the 4b movement is such a hot topic of conversation right now especially among women in america because we're watching it play out in another country where things are far worse so um you have women in america who are like you know what it doesn't seem like it would be that fucking bad to just like not think about or participate in dating men at all yeah and like to specifically target women by saying a vow of celibacy is not the answer like come lower your standards on bumble like it is so wildly tone deaf i mean like it's just wild that that passed through so many people yes well you know my marketing brain instantly is like the cmo needs to lose lose their fucking job like and people that is also

part of the conversation of like this had to pass through so many people to be approved yeah and they clearly didn't do any audience testing and i just like i cannot believe that that was their marketing strategy to to again like why are women constantly being blamed for not wanting to date men who suck yeah it's like okay well you told me to raise my standards and i did so now why are you mad right and like if you want people to be more active on your dating app then don't blame them for like not liking it that's on you yeah i mean it's like it's like what parameters do you have in place to like stop abuse like verbal abuse what parameters do you have in place to like protect women how i don't know it's just wild to have us to tell us to raise our expectations and

then to not expect men to do better or at least hold men to do better because then it's that that just leaves it's like okay well I guess I just gotta lower my expectations again it's like why is this why is that our job like why why isn't there the conversation should be from the other side well as some of the and some of the points I've seen people making are very good points so focusing on celibacy specifically it's like okay you are only focusing on the pain points that men are having in dating and dating apps which is they want to have sex yep okay and now they're not getting any sex and that's women's fault because there's a sense of entitlement again just kind of like these false beliefs that once you're an adult man you are gonna have

uh sex with women and um they're also gonna like cook and clean and whatever i don't know there's just so like why are you trying to appeal to women with a man's point of view that has already been like vehemently disagreed with and is kind of that point of view is like why women are not on dating apps why yes given up on dating apps why like fewer people are like having children and getting married like i don't know the issue is like this is really fucking dumb they need to be talking to women in a way that the there's like way overwhelmingly more men on these apps than women and that's been the case for forever that it's just been like unweighted it's that the billboard sounds like it's trying to get more men onto the platform it's like oh well they're

trying to get bitches to fuck like let's fucking let's go on there needs they need to appeal to more women like it doesn't make any sense that line of thinking like they didn't focus group that at all no no it I just think it over overall like it's just a bad concept yeah from a marketing standpoint I'd be like why is this if I worked there too I'd be like why is this the approach that you think is gonna work yeah like there are so many other things that you could focus on that are major pain points about dating and dating apps that you are not even like you're like these bitches are just like they don't want to have sex because yeah they're too rigid or something yep i don't know you know what i think must have happened is it must have been a higher

up in the creative department that was like this is gonna work believe me and everyone's just like all right he's like really wants to do it i like just knowing what we know and how things work they're absolutely with someone steamrolling everyone absolutely to make this happen yeah and i mean hopefully they're seeing who are you can't say no to executives when you are like an underling yeah like you can try you're gonna lose your fucking job yeah if you're difficult so yeah i don't know i really hope whoever well and you know this is what also pisses me off you know that this was probably some executive's idea and um they steamrolled it into production and everyone's probably just rubbing their temples like i cannot wait for this to fucking be over

and it has way more backlash than anyone was anticipating except for the social department social department was like this is not gonna go well right yeah their pr department too yeah they're like this is not gonna go well and whoever gets fired it is not going to be the executive who made that fucking decision yeah you know it yeah and they're gonna try and pin all the blame on like one person and it's gonna be like no a lot of fucking people had to approve this yeah a lot yeah and there's probably very minimal paper trail too but it's probably all in spoken meetings so they can't actually trace it back to the person whose fault it was they're gonna turn into boeing and just start fucking killing people dude another one died three now or two oh two okay

but if a third one happens we gotta really start it's like we could make planes that work or we could fucking kill our employees who um point out that our planes don't work yeah then that's what bumble's gonna do yeah like we could make a good dating app but instead let's just fucking kill the people who said this was a bad idea and the team's messages it's fucking crazy dude yeah so that's been interesting yeah no kidding this was a fun episode it was this just all flowed we're so um i'm surprised i was able to be this productive on four hours of sleep me too i love when you make that face i think i call it like in my head it's like your blue steel face it's like a blue steel like bad plastic surgery face that's my like it does make you look very puffy too much botox face

thank you you look like handsome squidward thank you i feel seen thank you oh my god i will always my girls um all right well uh do you want to what genre should we do like 90s like britney pop yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we love you are children and that was probably one of our worst i was gonna say i was close enough it was pretty close yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah all right bye bye Oh, yeah.