The Hoely Hour - E222 White Lotusode

Episode Date: April 11, 2025

Listen to two unqualified film and television critics share their personal analysis of the season 3 finale of The White Lotus! (Also, let us know what small ways you like to treat yo self during the week.) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to The Holy Hour, a podcast about sex, relationships, mental health, and everything in between. I'm Amelia Sampson. And I'm Liz Ball. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at TheHolyHour. I'm on Instagram and TikTok at Amelia Sampson. And I'm on Instagram and TikTok at LizBallSoHard. You can also watch us on YouTube or listen ad-free on Patreon at patreon.com slash TheHolyHour. Check out our merch at theholyhour.com and email us your spicy stories at holyhourpodcast at gmail.com.

I took a page out of the Liz Ball handbook. What does that mean? I started to like give myself like little spa nights. Oh. The issue is that me and Frank are not sleeping in the same room right now because of the dog. No, I'm kidding. Because he's banished to the couch.

I already know. No. Yeah. So Liz already knows this. but my my dog is paraplegic so she has to sleep in her playpen which is very cush like i want to sleep in her playpen you know but if she's in there and we're both in the same room she cries all night so we have to sleep in different rooms but i say that because like my nighttime routine has now been allowed to be super long because i can spend as much time as i want yeah because

he goes to bed at nine i go to bed at like 12 30 so like i get a whole runway to have my whole nighttime routine so I bought a do you have a master bathroom in your master bedroom yeah okay and then where do you do your nighttime routine in a different bathroom no I do my nighttime well typically I do it in our bathroom but now that he's not in the room I can like oh you're in the room and then he's with yeah the dog exactly he's downstairs now wow he's literally sleeping in the dog house literally so i have started to i bought a red light mask like a starter one um which has been you did tell us last week delightful it's well you told us the ordered one it's great it's really great i love it it is it feels nice um i feel like the blue light is having an effect

already like i've had these like plugged i did think this when you walked in your skin looked very very beautiful thank you i'm literally glowing this is why i think i'm ovulating you know what i mean because it's like let's see if this lasts longer than three days the red light therapy mask could be ovulation but i also started on both uh topical steroids again what the hell was that he might be he just bapped hi baby he's like give me like are you gonna puke nope just wants to sit with me same kind of emotion did he did he seem like he was gonna throw up no he just he just slapped the table oh his hand went out oh okay i must have missed i heard something yeah it was him slapping the table uh i started on a topical steroid which

i'm worried about because topical steroid withdrawal have you heard of this yes fucking scary so i'm only using it once a day why why are you using a topical steroid because i was taking um the oral medication of you were taking it for a while um but you're you were doing i can't remember stretch of the ass i think sperm a spironolactone yes or whatever yes but it was making me pee all the time and so they gave me the topical version yeah it did do that so i'm on it um but anyway so i would do that i do my red light i got a water pick inspired by you like a water flosser wait i didn't know that was a steroid yeah it's like a it's a class of steroids yeah i looked it up because i like read about topical steroid withdrawal and i was like i'm

just gonna check if win levy is a topical steroid and it is turns out so that's a little scary um but you know what you don't you don't if you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much i think i would take peeing all the time yeah the pills are also pretty big and i have a strong gag reflex i still would boys i would do that wow do you know where the cat is mr liz and i say that to each other all the time when he's meowing he's like have you seen grandpa that's so funny i literally can't find him that's so he literally just stood there me out and walked away like what was what was your game plan he's just announcing his presence in case you forgot no that's good no one forgets no there's no way we could ever have time to

um what was i saying um what else do i have anyway i just feel like i've been oh i started um your your luxurious routine i have a little treat yourselves i have lipoedema which i don't think i've talked about on here yet you know what real quick i'm going to interrupt to tell the listeners that they should write in to tell us their little absolutely treat yourself 100 how do you treat yourself throughout the week what are some little things that you do what should we incorporate some joy let's let's share more of that i read somebody saying like if all these little tiny things that you do to make yourself feel better throughout the day that take like three minutes add up you know and you just start feeling better in general it's true and you know what you have

more time to do that when you limit your screen time unfortunately yeah but like start up start a pod listening to podcasts i can't wait until we have like studies of the like effects on the brain compared to like meth of of like phone and screen addiction like i mean we're gonna see i want to know the the statistics between those they've like rendered what people like humans are gonna look like in like 200 years and their eyes are just like fucking enormous because of all the screens um hunched over yeah yeah just but then everybody has like the same like kind of duck lip face yeah i figured out what that was and i feel so stupid for not knowing this already but lip flips so many more people have a lip flip than you think you know like really yeah i started

like looking up pictures of people who've had them before and after like and on reddit and then i was like oh shit this is like every girl on tiktok yeah they all have like a they they don't have lip filler oh there's something about their maybe they maybe they do have lip filler but there's something about their mouth that looks different and you get botox up here so then this lip this upper lip doesn't like move as much so usually it's if they have like their gums showing but it also kind of gives your lips a more full look because you can't move that muscle and once you see it you can't unsee it someone someone pointed out alex cooper yeah they're like oh yeah i love her lip flip and then i was like she does look really good with hers yeah

because it i mean it does look really cute so i'm not saying it looks bad but it's like that i'm like oh my god yeah i mean it makes that's kind of the instagram face because i mean i yeah you can you can i know that you can't always tell when people have lip filler and whatever i don't care if you can or can't tell um but i don't know when you see like before pictures you're like i don't know something looks different yeah with your mouth but not in a bad way but not in a lip filler way that's so true i have noticed it's like people that have like very clearly like fuller looking lips they're like nope i've never gotten filler and it's like now we know that that that could be true and they could still have fuller looking lips yeah their mouth will just look like i don't

know the movements of their mouth look a certain way yeah anyway yeah i'm gonna finish my thought so look into that speaking of plastic surgery or like plastic surgery adjacent found out recently that I have lipoedema which is misdiagnosed as diagnosed big air quotes misdiagnosis cellulite or like miss self-diagnosis cellulite often um but there are some similarities there's like it's it's like two percent of women but that's not true like there's no way that's true I think just people just don't know that they have it yeah anyway um so I started uh rolling like doing like a fascia roller on my legs every night with um brazilian boom boom cream oh i love that shit that shit smells so fucking good it really does the brazilians have it figured out um did i tell

you the first time i ever made frank laugh was on a date when he was telling me about his brazilian dentist and i said how many is a brazilian and he had never heard that joke before and laughed and then have you heard that joke before like how many is a brazilian because it sounds like you're saying like a bazillion and he laughed and i've never heard that joke before i think that at the time he thought that i came up with it but two years later i'm still winning you came up with it to him yeah that's true that's all that matters really yeah and to me i've been holding gatsby's hand for so long now he loves he loves how when his paws are being held that's the cutest fucking thing in the world cats normally don't like this he i know he like it i'm constantly like holding

his little paw i don't know it's there's something very nice about it yeah yeah and you can massage his his little paws i think that's why he likes it because normally i'm playing with his paws he's so sweet um he's such a weird little cat name any other cat this chill that's like yes you can hold my paw he is truly the chillest cat you can clip my claws i think he has a little bit of ragdoll in him he's gotten more and more snuggly and floppy as time has gone on oh baby because normally he's a little more like or not normally i'm just thinking about his behavior over time he's such a bean i love him so much he's just a big cuddle bug he's the best cat i'm constantly like when you die i'm going to die yeah so don't die i'm gonna have a meltdown we have a lot to

discussed today yeah we wanted to talk about the white lotus more specifically the season finale yeah so if you haven't seen it yet just skip this episode go back listen to one of our old ones yeah we know you haven't listened to all of them go find an old one yeah while they're still available publicly what does that mean season three of white lotus and this is not going to be like what you would expect from a film podcast like we're not talking about that yeah i'm not going to talk about it as like a cinephile yeah exactly it's more i just thought there were like a couple of relationship dynamics that i thought were really interesting and would be like relevant to discuss um most specifically the relationship dynamic between the three friends and the

relationship dynamic between chelsea and rick yes very interesting relationship it feels like that role was made for that actress chelsea i love her she was phenomenal i and like we said there are going to be spoilers in this so i'm just going to say whatever i'm going to say what i want to say about this episode by the time this comes out it's been out almost a week yeah it'll have been out for almost a week um but it's a relevant conversation yeah no but i mean like you should have watched it by now they continue yeah i was so fucking upset when chelsea died even though they were hinting to it all season i was like no it can't be it cannot be chelsea i just felt like because because i don't want it to be i thought because they were hinting at it so heavily it

wasn't gonna happen you know they really pulled the old like bait and switch but they were also hinting at it with like a lot of characters but still i was like it can't be chelsea she keeps saying like bad things happen in threes you know like she almost died with the robbery you know like i was like there's no fucking way and then when they panned behind rick and she was on the ground i was like no she can't but then she was shot in the heart and i'm like she's gonna i mean you don't survive that so fucking sad what a tragic scene it oh my god did you expect that guy to be rick's dad did you know yeah yeah i think everybody did i was like i was like i think that this guy is probably rick's dad yeah i don't know yeah it just it seemed a little obvious but

because you don't get any sort of confirmation i guess you don't know what's gonna happen or what he's gonna say yeah i don't know yeah i mean when he said he is your dad well when he was like um like your dad wasn't a good guy your mom lied to you i didn't know that she was she was a drunk and a slut and a liar yeah i was like damn like he doesn't he he knows he's a bad guy i thought a lot about like why would his mom tell him this story and just like from your from her perspective we can we know she died when rick was younger and uh rick never knew his father and this narrative she tells her son is that your father was like a do-gooder in society and um this guy is corrupt and killed your father because that makes this guy like he'll always seem bad yeah to in the eyes

of her son yeah the eyes of rick so maybe i mean like there's symbolism there of like the good guy is dead like the good guy and that man is gone and this very bad version of him has like taken over well and then rick made even though he says he doesn't have any like identity he made his this life he never had and his suffering his identity yeah his stuff his suffering on behalf of that and like chelsea says in like the second to last episode i think she's like well it's like a yin and yang thing with us like he's rick is like pain and i'm like hope and yeah eventually one of us will win and the look on chelsea's face when she's like and we're going to be together forever and then he's like that's the plan that's the plan and how pure like the pure joy and

happiness on her face was so sweet i almost started crying oh my god i know i was just like so happy for her and you're like hope really won out yeah like but also rick is the fucking worst most unprepared con man in the world like well why is he staying he's like i got i gunned down the owner of this hotel the chain that we're staying at and i'm going to return there yeah you're crazy you should have immediately been like we gotta fucking go right also he didn't tell like his buddy anything to prepare to like right wait hold on what do you mean he gunned down and then you mean like he like he still held a gun to right right but i see what you're saying he just like held a gun to him yeah yeah totally yeah i know he's i think that that was so

intentional though that they had him just be the worst at his job because at his core he wasn't like a bad dude he just like had trauma you know but he he continuously chose to mourn this life that he would never that he never had and never would have and be hung up on it and resentful of it and yeah spiteful of it to the point where he is consistently like not he's like mourning this love he never had but Chelsea is loving him unconditionally yeah and he is constantly like putting his pain above her love like her unconditional love for him like his pain for not having that but she's literally offering it to him over and over again to the point where he's so hyper focused on this being his identity and needing to like resolve it in some capacity that

he inevitably like cost chelsea her life yeah he's so self-centered right that like right despite at all and she was like he was telling her not to follow him and then he was like get the fuck out of here like get out of here and she was like i mean her whole like storyline was supporting him and being by his side despite him giving her no reason to be so like it was just it was an interesting way for her story to end when the entire season was like proving that you know like he's he's he pushed her away the entire season and then at the end when he was like trying to basically like save her really in a sense she like sacrificed herself in a way to be there with him you know she was sacrificing everything that she like her entire her entire existence on the show

was like making decisions for rick and to be with rick and to keep her happy you know and so her dying because she refused to leave his side felt like apt i think she also like was trying to continue providing him with an option because even when he has that therapy session with the like counselor or whatever that's like her whole point the therapist's whole point is like she's like i believe you can choose another path yeah and every chance rick is given to choose another path he doesn't until he confronts the guy and he's like i don't actually want to do this I'm gonna leave yeah that is the only time we've seen Rick make a choice yeah isn't harming everyone totally I thought what I thought was interesting that's kind of like around Rick and

Chelsea's relationship was the moment in the finale with Saxon when like Rick comes back and Chelsea runs up to him and that like moment that they just like stay on Saxon and he like goes through all of these emotions and like oh my god realizes that like this is what he did an amazing i know i just got chills up to my like the top of my head thinking about it he was so fucking good but like he was looking at them and you could tell just like that was like after everything that we had seen about him about him just like wanting to like have sex and like fuck bitches and like get you know get drunk and have a good time like all that he wants like at his core is to like find love you know and like be loved and it was just that was such like it was such

a beautiful moment he did such a good job with that the show itself is so perfect at capturing emotion which is so difficult to do well without it being cheesy i don't know he did such a good job i what i was going to say is mike white's like whole thinking about the planning the show was like and this ties into um kind of like the buddhist beliefs um there's like a lot of real religious themes in the in this season but um the whole premise is that like identity is suffering like you're tied to your identity is suffering and um that's like what buddhist monks teach like to give everything up because to want something is to suffer and you'll always be suffering if you're wanting something damn which is kind of a big theme of like the whole especially

like yeah and and you want things because of the identity you've tied yourself to piper was such a perfect illustration of that whole thought well they're kind of i mean i think they all are like that in some way and he also explained that rick and tim were supposed to be kind of parallels like this man who says he has like no identity and he like didn't have like this supportive family life and he is trying to navigate that and then you have this man whose identity is everyone relying on him yeah like um just kind of them going through these similar experiences yeah on opposite ends it was just it was really cool to see like the reason that i feel like piper was the perfect like encapsulation of like the that idea of buddhism was like the whole

journey that she went through of like i have everything no i want to come here and have nothing and then being like just kidding i don't want that it felt so inauthentic was like such a good having her go through that journey was so human you know that felt like such a human experience to show it didn't feel like i wasn't really buying from the jump that she like wanted to be like wanted to like stay at this temple you know i was just like it just felt it felt performative because it was really and that was the identity she like chose for herself right and i think that that's why when lachlan was like i want to i want to stay too she was so appalled by that because it's like i did this because i wanted to be the different one i can't handle

it and now you're saying that you can handle it was like so upsetting to her oh like a mirroring yeah and i think i really hope that lachlan is the character that they bring into season four because like oh i hope it's saxon i hope it's both of them i hope it's saxon and zion i zion a very good looking man he ain't bad but he that's what frank says that every time there's like an attractive woman on the screen oh she ain't bad um i loved i have some i have some issues with the finale but i did love when lachlan was dying and he was like in the water and he saw the monks looking at him and like that like spiritual moment like spiritual awakening that he had like when he was like i think i just saw god or heaven i don't remember he said to his dad

but that's like i want to see that progress i'm like so hungry for that storyline but we just what do you mean like i just want to see where he goes with that because he was such a blank slate the whole season and now he just had this like awakening well i think no because he said i think that in a way Lachlan is like I don't know if he's necessarily a blank slate so much as he's supposed to be a mirror for everybody else in his family yeah like he tells his dad what he finally wants to hear which is I think that I could survive without money dad yeah and then um I guess I don't really see it with his mom but like with Piper he's like I'll stay with you yeah because they both like both piper and saxon want validation in this identity they've tied

themselves to and reflects that back to them and then they're like i don't like that yeah that's not like what i thought that's not what i thought it would be yeah so yeah i but i do but by blank slate though i mean like i feel like with him mirroring his whole family you know it does it does feel like he didn't have his own identity until that's true you know it's like he was like in in the villa reading a book he helped them learn i think he sees the monks because he helped these people learn that like the identity they created for themselves is suffering which is what oh yeah it's like the buddha taught yeah it would just be so interesting to watch that progress and he's like about to go to college and so it's like i feel like there it's a good jumping off point

for his character to continue because like he maybe he doesn't go to college maybe he goes to like wherever the next white lotus location is like it's i don't know i just i really want to see how he progresses the incest was such an interesting thing for them to throw into the show i was pissed i understand that come on but it was because there's this idea not idea it's like historical knowledge that like very very wealthy and powerful families would do yeah to like keep the money in the family kind of idea you know and so for that to be like reflected in this family which I think I mean it's it's gross I mean like it's any incest is gross obviously but like it was interesting to throw it in in that way and I do think it was intentional in that like there are

so many things in this like I thought that there was Saxon had said something about Piper I think in the first episode oh when he was like talking about like she's so hot but she's a virgin I was like that's a really weird fucking thing to say about your sister and then like Lachlan like watched him in the bathroom like when he was about to go jack off i was just like what is going on in this yeah like what is yeah we were all uncomfortable it was all it just it felt very i would so what i was telling amelia or like before we were recording like mike white says this that like when piper you know realizes she doesn't want to stay at the monastery um she kind of has this freak out and like does the opposite of what she'd been identifying with

and she's like saxon was right about me like i'm a virgin i need to like loosen up or whatever and she ends up hooking up with zion and they took it out he was like it was already so long like so and it was kind of like this meet cute romance like quick romance story happening in the middle of all this other like depressing crazy shit i'm like i want to see it yeah just just to know yeah like but within that director's cut so within that vein she like she walks back into the the villa and saxon's there and saxon's like you look different because she just like lost her virginity and had decided she didn't want to stay at the monastery and she changes the subject by being like well what are you reading and he's like nothing it's

a book and they both are kind of deflecting yeah but they've switched positions you know saxon's doing this spiritual self-exploration and she's like yeah I want to be well off and have sex and have fun yeah I do I think that the only so Liz really liked the finale I didn't like the finale I think that they had kept so many loose I think the only storyline that they like tied up well was belinda's and i have a lot of questions what i have a lot of like what was the point for this is a small example what was the point of when one of the friends which we still need to talk about walked up to um oh my god what was her parker posies oh uh the mom victoria victoria when she walked up to victoria and was like we met at a baby shower what the fuck was the point of

that interaction because it never came back up i think that it was parker posey i think it was more like character development for parker posey like to show like one how fucking strung out she actually is and then also like victoria thinks that she's better than kate so she's not gonna like she you know she's constantly telling her kids they need to look out for each other and they need to stick together because they can't trust anyone because they're rich and beautiful like yeah okay she's not gonna model like the whole time victoria doesn't want to associate with anybody like when she's talking to the boat people she's like oh yeah she thinks they're trashy yeah it's i just like there are so many things like there they showed um was kate the

one with the short was that carrie no yeah kate was the one with short hair okay so kate was like when she saw i don't know anyone's name jacklyn yeah jack so when jacklyn was the actress when she hooked up with valentine and kate was on the phone and watching her like kate was always on the phone and that felt like such an such an opportunity for them to be like oh kate like heard about what happened with like the rich family with the with the dad and like so that's how it like gets back to the island like there's just so many things that's like maybe they did that on purpose so people like i haven't finished listening to the episode so maybe mike white addresses that maybe i just there's so many things that just like never came back up and i'm just

like what happened with that and i feel like they did a better job in season one and season two of wrapping up everything tying up all the loose ends but this season like i hated first of all did you know that um mooks the actress was is lisa from blackpink i didn't know that until yesterday or two days ago i like looked up because i was like she's so pretty it's a fucking lisa i didn't even know that i kind of love that they were like let's cast a k-pop star yeah and bring in a whole new fucking audience yeah the fact that the fact that they like cashed in on the k-pop fandom is so fucking smart yeah i was thinking about that earlier it really is holy shit it did feel like a lot more people were watching this season than other seasons and i was wondering why i was like

is it because sydney sweeney was on the first season never she's having this like renaissance bangers banger are you they had sydney sweeney in season one and she's you know she's everywhere yeah so then i think conversations around white lotus and like her iconic kind of like back and forth about her dad being or her grandfather being gay oh yeah yeah like she says that uh she listened to the red scare which inspired that character which you like you can totally see it now too but i think yeah you have her you have like um jennifer coolidge is so iconic she gave us a lot of iconic lines in season two and season two had so many like fun characters like yes porsche i fucking loved porsche yeah even though she was kind of a dingus but like that was the

whole point she's wearing all these stupid crazy outfits that are so trendy in the moment i forgot about porsche she's such a great character but yeah there was like a lot of fun in season two totally um yeah and aubrey plaza yes iconic what there it was i need to go back and watch season one and season two again i'm like forgetting how great they are well and like season one i i like how much season one plays back and forth too between like the staff and the um people staying there yeah and that was like more of what mike white was angling for and then you have this super crazy season two that's not so much about the staff and it's more about these like the people staying there yeah paid the patrons right and then season three i think is kind of like i think maybe

more of like an exploration of relationships yeah and it was but like even then like the relationship between lisa and or mook and the guard like i didn't buy it i just didn't buy it the whole time i was like is he gonna be the guy that like dies because like why are they introducing the storyline at all it felt so forced and it didn't feel connected to anything not even the robberies they didn't even do any they didn't tie up any loose ends of the robbery he didn't tell anyone valentine was just like this we have to because we can't stay here otherwise okay i would have liked maybe a little bit more but yeah mike white was also talking about this relationship and like he was like yeah it was he stayed at the four seasons and he was like i was

interested by the guards because they don't really have to deal with any sort of crime and she's he's like i thought it would be interesting to like explore a character where like he you know has these ties to his like religious values and morals and then he ends up like being he he betrays those things to be happy yeah making mook happy yeah you know i think that yeah the host asked like are mook and guy talk happy and he's like i think that they are because of this i don't think they were supposed to be very complex and they weren't it was very it i don't know i just didn't but i wanted more out of that relationship so fucking bad i also like i found myself like like theorizing about like maybe mook because she was talking to the bodyguards at the beginning yeah maybe she's

a bad guy i thought maybe she was like in on the robbery yeah no because originally i thought the two guards were the robbers but then we meet we meet the russian friends and then you're like oh it's totally those fucking guys yeah dude the story with um see what's the third friend's name well carrie coon's character i think laurie laurie yeah laurie jacqueline and kate laurie's the storyline with um alexi and like the girlfriend i thought the girlfriend was gonna play more of a part but like she her only purpose was to like walk in on them having sex or like slap them in the dick yeah and then like swat at her when she's hanging out the window it just all felt like a little i don't know everything just felt so out of place so consistently toward the end

of the season which i was very disappointed by because i am a mike white stan a little differently i know it's interesting because so i i fucking loved carrie coon's monologue i almost started crying yeah it was yeah uh she is so fucking talented she really is carrie coon plays laurie but i feel like everyone just keeps saying carrie coon because she's iconic i also think the name carrie coon is just like fun to say yeah um yeah so i loved her monologue but so i think that kind of like her being chased out and all of that and this kind of like uh started out as all maybe going to be scary to embarrassing thing that happened to her but I think that it needed to happen for her to kind of have this like full circle moment of reflection with herself that she

ends up sharing in her monologue in the season finale like I think so in Mike White he was like I wasn't trying to have like make this story about like I wasn't trying to like say anything about female friendships because i think he knows like i don't know about that experience i don't need to yeah he's like i just thought it would be interesting to kind of explore this this feeling of friendship and he was saying how he like feels that way in his own life like you eventually like reflect on how much you value your friendships over time yeah and all that so I thought that was interesting but um I mean I can speak about it from a perspective of like having female friendships and just how I felt like it was like literally every woman on the

face of the planet could probably relate to Carrie Coon yeah so Mike White explains that as like you have these sometimes you have these friendships that like they cause you suffering just because they exist yeah like because you you've tied yourself to this identity so when you're comparing yourself to other people you are like you're suffering just because they exist because you're comparing yourself to them yeah in some capacity so like that monologue with Carrie Coon makes a lot of sense totally I and I think she like that's what we see her kind of realizing when she's watching her friends take pictures initially i interpreted it as like she was an outsider yeah or just feeling like sad feeling out of place right um and she like you can like she's

felt out of place from the beginning because they did such a good job illustrating that yeah yeah and then um i mean yeah her friends maybe they're not the best friends and that's what mike white says he's like maybe these people aren't like the best friends that you have but like their relationship to you is still like important it was like a sisterhood really it's like they like it was almost like you don't choose your family kind of stuff but like we're stuck together and we love each other i think carrie coon was like i've been sad this whole time because she realized what her friends said about her was true she you know she's always unhappy by the decisions that she makes like it doesn't matter what the decision is the result is always the

same yeah it's that she's unhappy with it and she like owns that in her monologue like yeah i thought these things would make me i thought these things would make me happy yeah and they didn't and like you know you guys are a reflection of that to me sometimes yeah so i think that makes a lot of sense like how she came full circle and she was like i'm instead of choosing to be unhappy with the result of something or with the experience of something instead like she chooses to like be grateful for each of her friends and like be grateful that they've their decisions have made them happy even though I think it's clear that like yeah they they each have their own like way that they're suffering independently totally yeah Jacqueline is clearly like so

insecure yeah and like not hearing from her husband are they married yeah like the whole time that they were there until like after she fucked valentine yeah and then like it took almost no time for her to make that decision too yeah and we we like know it's not about valentine at all right and that's i think that's also especially what pissed me off with jacqueline she kept making it about valentine when she knew damn well that was not the problem yeah and like when they're telling Carrie when you know they're kind of ganging up on Carrie Coon when she confronts Jacqueline and she's like no like your behavior is weird it's weird that you would do that yeah like it's not about Valentina at all it's about you and how you're you're operating and then

Jacqueline thinks she's innocent because Carrie doesn't Carrie Coon doesn't really have anything to do with her decision I don't think I think that the piece of it is she's just like I feel so desperately insecure that i and i like this guy's the hottest guy so i'm gonna hook up with him yeah she's not thinking about carrie coon at all no yeah which sucks totally but like we've we've all been there it was interesting seeing how like they had so many behaviors that they absolutely would have had in high school like they're just so the same as they were and like they had like alluded to that a few times like you're exactly the same as you were in high school which is like when you're friends with somebody or friends with people for years and years and

years like no matter how evolved you've become you revert back to like some parts of yourself how you were when you were younger when you're with those people which is like can be really uncomfortable like I don't know like I feel I got together with some people from that I did theater with in high school and it was such like a strange like earmark in like how much I've grown and how much I've changed because I just felt like an entirely different person when I was with them yeah versus when I'm not with them and I just feel like when you when you put yourself back into those situations with people that you've known for forever you've revert back to these old behaviors and I think that they did a really good job showing that um that's how a lot of

people are with family too oh yeah like yeah you fall into these family dynamics yeah for so long and then it's hard to kind of break free of them yeah um but i was going to say oh leslie bibb said in an interview that like she thinks that kate is the one who like she talks to each of them independently and she's the one who's kind of like the she keeps all the friends connected yeah and that makes a lot of sense yeah there's one scene it's a at the dinner where carrie coon is confronting jacklyn and she carrie coon's wearing this like maroon dress and jacklyn's wearing this blue this bright blue dress and kate is wearing a dress that's both of the colors oh and i was like i feel like that's on purpose oh for sure everything all the colors are so

intentional in that show well because she's kind of this middle person there was um this is a little bit of a diversion but when carrie coon was talking to alexi and valentine in the hot tub like when they were all hanging out back at and like i think alexi said something in russian to valentine and they laughed there was no subtitles on that yeah and i couldn't find anywhere what he said i'm so curious what he said i don't know if it's important but like i do think it's like it i don't it could be like what these like young men are saying about this like middle-aged woman yeah i saw this woman translating it oh onto well not that scene but the other scene where the girlfriend comes up and is yelling at them she's like you don't answer my calls so you can

hang out with these prostitutes and i think it's funny like the entire uh season they keep referring to actors and actresses as prostitutes so funny i love self-referential shit like that it's so funny to me um but i think that was like yeah those were the main relationships i that i thought were the most interesting i thought that greg and the model see i don't know anyone's name on the show which is i watched the whole season chloe greg and chloe's was greg his real name greg gary greg gary yeah oh yeah greg's his original name and gary's his new name their relationship was so interesting how he's like i mean so many so many things about it were interesting but like such a cuck and then like that was another thing that i was just like what

was i was like they're gonna kill sex that's what i thought i was like this has to be a murder plot but then at the end i mean maybe they end up killing that guy that she was talking to in the pool at the end and like pointed to greg and he was like i don't know sitting there sitting in this little cuck chair uh-huh but like what was the point of that entire dynamic uh i think just to show that both chloe and greg gary are transactional people yeah but i feel like that was like explained otherwise i don't think i don't know it's just this is what i mean it's like i fucking again i would do i would i love mike white like if he needs a kidney i have him you know but like so i feel like he can't do any wrong but it's like there's just so much shit this season

that i was just like for what and the incest i feel like i'm explaining away the incest because they're like what there has to be a reason that he put that shit in there you know and it has to be because of like the historical implications of it i guess no i think you just wanted to be shocking a little bit but like and hbo does incest yeah it's just we don't use we're not usually subjectated to seeing it in like a normalish family a family you would expect to see in real life it felt too modern i didn't like you can explain it away in ye olden times right even if it is still true i don't want to know about it but i just like at least it's frowned upon now lachlan's reasoning for doing it was stupid to me and like it and also especially

because like he didn't remember what happened until he was at the temple right he like had a flashback and was like oh shit I like jerked off my brother like so for him to be like I don't know I'm a pleaser like it felt like there could have been a deeper rationale for it than just like I don't know you like coming so I and I love you you know what I mean it's just like yeah I don't know I just I had issues I had issues with the finale and I gaslit myself into thinking I liked it last night I was like this is so fucking good and then the more that I thought about it today i was just like i have questions i have so many questions and i can't find any at least not yet with severance they would give um like early viewing to like some youtubers so that they

could like do their think pieces and release them like right when the episode came out but white lotus didn't do that so i haven't had like any think pieces to watch yet but i'm so curious to a podcast the prestige oh is that the is that the white lotus podcast specifically no oh no there is an official podcast but i haven't listened to it well i'm excited to see what other people are saying about it because i haven't heard anyone talking about it really we're all digesting yeah the stock markets are plummeting yeah people are people are focused on other things would you like to play this out i'm like trying to think of a noise prepared or something okay do you have one

oh my god we love you our children thank you so much you