The Hoely Hour - E33 Consent is my Kink - Pt. 1

Episode Date: April 1, 2021

April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month. We are doing a two-part episode series for the month of April in an effort to help bring awareness to issues humans face every single day. If you know us, you know we say “Consent is my kink” often, and consent is a huge part of intimacy for everyone. We’ve created merchandise that we’re selling on our website, thehoelyhour.com, and we’re donating 100% of the profits to RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) for Sexual Assault Awareness Month. If you’re sensitive to topics relating to sexual assault, we recommend you skip this episode, but if you still want to contribute, feel free to check out our merchandise or donate to RAINN directly! If you or someone you know needs help, call the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-4673. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hi folks, we're starting off this episode with a trigger warning. April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month. We're doing a two-part episode series for the month of April in an effort to help bring awareness to issues humans face every single day. If you know us, you know we like to say consent is my kink often and consent is a huge part of intimacy for everyone. We've created merchandise that we're selling on our website theholyhour.com and we're donating 100% of the profits to RAINN, the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network for Sexual Assault Awareness Month. If you're sensitive to topics relating to sexual assault, we recommend you skip this episode, but if you still want to contribute, feel free to check out our merchandise or donate to RAINN

directly. If you or someone you know needs help, call the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-4673. welcome to the holy hour i'm amelia samson and i'm liz ball um we're gonna have a little bit of a different episode these next two episodes because april is sexual assault awareness month um yeah we are going to be selling merch that says consent is my kink to go along with this two-part series that we're doing when we dive into sexual assault awareness month um we're donating 100 of the profits to rain for the entire month of april you can find our merch on our newly launched website at theholyhour.com the design was

created by our amazing friend alora that we met at work um that is now more than just a co-worker for us um you can check out her instagram handle at hello hysteria we will tag that in our posts about the merch too um her designs are incredible and we know that her work will resonate with y'all like it did with us yeah so be sure to check that out some amazing designs she's incredible they're like funny and they're ferocious and they're badass just like her and just like all of you guys yes um so to kick off this two-part consent is my kink series um i wanted to start with this quote from chanel miller and if you don't know who chanel miller is she is the victim and survivor survivor of um convicted rapist brock turner and she had written an essay that appeared in glamour

and i remember reading it i think she wrote this essay in like 2017 before she had still come out with her identity um because she wrote a book called know my name and um that's how she like revealed that she was Emily Doe um but I remember reading this and it like I think a lot of us have read her original statement that she read in court and um the things that came after that and it really kicked off like the me too movement and put this conversation at the forefront of like talking about sexual assault because i don't think a lot of us knew how insanely common it is um so this is from uh the essay she wrote that appeared in glamour in the very beginning of it all in 2015, one comment managed to lodge harmfully inside me. Sad. I hope my daughter never ends up

like her. I absorbed that statement. Ends up. As if we end somewhere. As if what was done to me marked the completion of my story. Instead of being a role model to be looked up to, I was a sad example to learn from. A story that caused you to shield your daughter's eyes and shake your heads with pity but when my letter was published no one turned away no one said I'd rather not look it's too much or too sad everyone pushed through the hard parts saw me fully to the end and embraced every feeling if you think the answer is that women need to be more sober more civil more upright that girls must be better at exercising fear must wear more layers with eyes open wider we will go nowhere when judge Aaron Persky mutes the word justice when Brock

Turner serves one month for every felony, we go nowhere. When we all make it a priority to avoid harming or violating another human being, and when we hold accountable those who do, when the campaign to recall this judge declares that survivors deserve better, then we are going somewhere. So now to the one who said, I hope my daughter never ends up like her. I am learning to say I hope you end up like me meaning I hope you end up like me strong I hope you end up like me proud of who I'm becoming I hope you don't end up I hope you keep going and I hope you grow up knowing that the world will no longer stand for this victims are not victims not some fragile sorrowful aftermath victims are survivors and survivors are going to be doing a hell of a lot

more than surviving she's incredible everything she writes is just like phenomenal and her artwork is like really moving and touching so um I think that's what we're putting forth in the energy of talking about this um because like so so many women every single woman you know has been assaulted and we're not sitting around crying every day about it like we're not just surviving we're living our fucking lives yeah so I think that's um a good place for us to kick things off yeah absolutely and it's it's we live in this reality of like we are taught at very early ages as women I mean every kid is taught like don't talk to strangers but like little girls take different precautions always and like when I studied in Italy the first thing that they

said to us there were guys in the room but they were like ladies wear sunglasses everywhere you go because if you make eye contact with a man they're going to take that as an invitation for sex and like some people might be listening like oh Italian men but like I because Italian men are little um yeah italian men will tell you the same thing but it's true i mean like everywhere that you go when i heard them say that i was like that's we have to do shit like that no matter what we have to be taught to carry our keys between our fingers when we're walking to our cars just in case somebody comes up to you so you can like punch them with like wolverine hands have like pepper spray and a taser and blah blah blah all this stuff rather than trying to fix

the root of the issue yeah it's on us to combat this thing that isn't our fault and still the conversation is like what were you wearing everything is women's responsibility and it's like why why the fuck it doesn't always fall on us why is everything our responsibility right and um like a lot of the the pushback is like i don't even know where to start i know it's a lot to impact a lot of the pushback is too like the conversation gets shifted just just hold your friends accountable yes i was just about to say that and i think like a really relevant example right now and when this comes out who knows what else will have come out um but a really relevant an example is david dobrik and his friends and um i am proud to announce that i have never once

watched a david dobrik video or had any desire you're like the one person i know really i'm like uh i'm gonna watch curtis connor our king um but uh yeah like um so if you don't know anything about david dobrik i don't blame you he's like some youtube guy i don't know what else he does um he's just a youtuber I really really loved David Dobrik and I'm very disappointed I'm very disappointed go on so many problematic things have come out um surrounding like how him and his friends like talk to women and treat women right yeah there was this a lot of problems with consent how I understand it is that they had some video about um a threesome and the girl that was involved with it felt like she had to say yes and because of the power dynamic which is

something that you and i talk about all the time the power dynamic of women feeling pressured to say yes to things when they don't feel okay saying yes and i think that aziz aziz i'm sorry stuff was a perfect example of that because that was a great line people were like was it assault because she said yes but but like it's because he's famous and he's same with louis ck yeah like they never powerful stop but like if you get put in a position of someone that has power you feel pressured to say yes and and david dobrik's the thing with david dobrik is an example of that where he didn't in his i'm i'm air quoting you can't see me do that on the podcast but like he wasn't aware of his power dynamic like he thought that when people say yes they mean yes

regardless of if he meant that or not that's such an important thing to talk about like yeah sure you say yes like but there's other stuff that you have to take into account with this stuff and I understand that that can be confusing and that's all the more reason to educate your friends educate yourself yeah make sure that you like ask people like are you do you mean yes are you just saying yes because you feel like you should be saying yes and that might sound like overkill but it's not so the David Dobrik stuff is the perfect example of that I recently saw a vlog clip um on twitter from one of his like older vlogs uh where like two different women i think it was two hooked up with one of the guys in his little group and um he was like you hooked up with

them what do you think and she was like i don't remember it because i was drunk and then they said and then like they're like making jokes about it and um essentially this woman like was talking about how she was raped like and then they're making jokes about it and then um i saw another tweet that was like you guys should not be surprised um that david dobrik is surprised that like his friends are assaulting women because um like men would rather ignore it than confront their friends yes and i think like that is a it's not a big ask but i think it is confusing to a lot of men to be like well how do how do i talk to my friend who's doing this yeah because it's not cool too and it's uncomfortable it's really hard very uncomfortable but would you

rather be friends with someone who assaults women or right would you rather be on uh the right side and if your friend gets mad at you for confronting them about it then like that should tell you a lot too because i know a lot of the guys in my life that i really respect would have that conversation with open arms you know they would be like i was wrong and and i think that those are the type of people that you should keep around not the people are like oh man she just took it the wrong way it's like no the other thing about the david dobrik apology too is there have been so many people that have been like commenting on his stuff like great apology man like we forgive you and it's like it's not up to the public to forgive him it's up to the survivors to forgive him

and um he only apologized after his sponsors pulled out so i think that's another huge point to make um you shouldn't be apologizing or doing investigations when uh you're like now financially in trouble like that does not help so we're gonna throw some statistics at you uh i also read these along with that glamour article um by chanel miller the original author also included these statistics from rain um and rain stands for the rape abuse and incest national network and they are the largest anti-sexual violence organization in the u.s and that's who we are going to be donating our profits to so one in every six women in the u.s is the victim of attempted or completed rape so think about how many women you just walk by in the grocery store like doing anything at all

one out of those six women someone has tried to or successfully raped them if you imagine sitting in a room with five of your friends and you know that one of you has been a victim of this that's a crazy thing to think about. That's not a lot of people, six. That is not a lot of people. One in six is a big percentage of that group. Anyway, go on. About 3% of American men or one in 33 have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime. And every 73 seconds, another American is sexually assaulted. A majority of child victims are 12 to 17. And of victims under the age 18 34 of victims of sexual assault and rape are under age 12 and 66 of victims of sexual assault and rape are age 12 to 17 out of every 1 000 assaults 995 perpetrators will walk free

so only five out of 1 000 perpetrators of sexual assault are held accountable for their actions and criminalized um so the u.s national sexual assault hotline is 1-800-656-4673 and um we can repeat that number again at the end of this episode uh so i think if we're gonna like start peeling back the layers of sexual assault maybe a good place to start is to talk about objectification yeah so how would you describe objectification oh my god these are all such like head like deep um objectification I see how I would describe these things as like through examples I'll give an example I'll give an example I was having this conversation online recently about there's this girl on tiktok who poses in the mirror a lot in her bathing suit and all of the comments are like

oh yeah women aren't objects like you do this you say women aren't objects then you do this and it's like women you know people aren't objectified unless somebody objectifies them and that objectification is a choice yes and it's diminishing who somebody is down to something that somebody can oogle at it like removes their human out of them that's how i would describe objectification it's like you see them as like a sex object rather than a human being like because you are turned on by someone wearing a bikini uh it's your choice to erase the human behind whatever they're wearing yeah yeah um and you know you don't have to be be like that like no no it's like sometimes I'll post thirst traps

a lot if you follow me on Instagram you know this and a lot of the time I get respect out of not I don't get respect for it but people respect me while I'm doing that and sometimes people will like slide into my DMs being like oh like I would do anything to do and it's like I understand that i'm putting a picture of me in my underwear out but like for people to then come at me with so much like aggression and like just kind of i'm like because you wear underwear yeah that you're just dtf anyone at all that i deserve to be harassed and it's not just like i'm fine with compliments i do that shit for compliments i'm such i'm i love attention but like i when it's like constant we've we've talking very openly about thirst traps if you look hot and you feel

hot you want people to see it yeah obviously like I look good I want to celebrate it I want to be stoked about it I want everyone to be nice to me because I feel good and I look good absolutely yes but then I get like these like repeat offenders of guys sliding into my dms being so there there's just like no it's it's a lot of disrespect it's not like you're so beautiful it's like bad and it's constant and they won't leave me alone and it's like that's that makes me feel just kind of like a slab of meat yeah and then it's like um why why do you think this behavior is acceptable does this ever work for you yeah it doesn't work anyway what's your definition of um i think like so if you break down the word objectification the word object is in it

so like i've struggled with objectification a lot um in my relationships and it goes beyond just sexual objectification it is like i am just supposed to play a role in their lives like they're the main character and i'm not a person i am an accessory and um it's just removing the humanity of someone and whittling that down to whatever you want it to be and um i did experience this like one time on twitter um a congresswoman posted a job opportunity and I looked at it because I was curious um I wouldn't have a she's in another state I wouldn't have applied uh but I was looking at it because I was curious how much a position like that would make and the responsibilities um and it was like so much fucking work and not nearly enough money

and I I see that a lot in marketing and social media especially social media because people are like well I have a Facebook it can't be that hard yeah so um and I see stuff like that show up everywhere so I commented like I admire and respect you but this is not nearly enough money for what you're asking for for this position and um someone and I was like I said I'm like a marketing professional and like this isn't enough money and someone commented like you're a marketing professional and you're dressed like that and like you should be a professional hooker or something like that and then I was like why don't you show us how you look and we can determine if you're good enough to do your job based on how you look and in this picture I'm wearing a turtleneck dress

with long sleeves and then I was wearing high boots and like the the dress goes down to my knees but that doesn't matter like I showed this much thigh like a teeny tiny bit of my thigh and like this but guys were having a heyday about how i was dressed and how i looked yeah and um when i got my job i wasn't even interviewed on camera because my ability to do my job and be respected as a human has nothing to do with how i look or how i'm dressed and that should be that the standard for anything you do in life yes how you look and how you are dressed does not speak to who you are as a person and um taking that to the next level how I'm how I look and how I'm dressed doesn't mean I want to be harassed or sexually assaulted yeah yes and it's something

that it's something that women I mean I don't know the experience of a man but it's something that we have to there's so much that goes into what we do or what qualities we possess that determine like how good we are at our job along with age like I experienced so much ageism as a woman in the workplace of like you're too young to be doing this job or like you know blah blah and there were men that worked around me the same age and nobody ever said that to them and it's like if a man is at a job and he's young then he's a go-getter he's a a wunderkind yeah it's fucking ridiculous so and then I I mean I experienced the same thing especially because I look young uh when I started at our at our company um one of our co-workers thought I was

a teenage intern literally thought I was like probably like 19 and I was interning I didn't know that nope I also recently was asked if I was old enough to sit in the emergency exit aisle on the plane so you have to be 14 oh my god I do have to say in like flight attendance defense uh a lot of 14 year olds look older because they have access to like the video yeah the internet they didn't have they didn't have to go through this phase of like awkwardly not knowing what you're doing when you put on makeup because before you could identify you're like oh yeah they're 14 they do not know how to put on any blush or bronzer uh-huh god I don't even want to look at pictures of me at 14 but I do they're awful and it makes me feel like 14 year old me

would appreciate how I look now yeah she'd be so proud I feel like you're still doing a winged look a winged eyeliner and you're killing it go get it girl but then the other side of this too is like I was thinking the other day about how I made a joke and it wasn't a joke about but it was it was phrased as a joke where I was at Safeway and I was in the self-checkout line and they came over to check my ID because I was buying vodka and they just they didn't look at my ID they looked at me and then they said that I was over 21 and I was like I'm ancient and like they don't even need to card and nobody cards me anymore and I was thinking about it because I say it like tongue and cheek but like women are afraid to age and men when they're aging they're talking to one of

them salt and pepper you know like oh you look distinguished when you're old and then like women have to think about like you know not aging naturally because also that's kind of creepy what salt and pepper no um like having to feel like you have to look youthful all the time like yeah why do you need to look like a teenager forever yeah god and um i do also want to talk about uh i i think that religion also plays a huge role in objectification um i think most people have been raised around some kind of religion and the whole idea of waiting until marriage when you drive that message home you tell young girls that they have to save their body for a man and so you teach them their body is never theirs they have to protect it and hide

it from men they have to wait for this perfect man and to sweep them off their feet and then that's like not what happens and then they wonder like when they have sex why do they still feel ashamed of themselves and their bodies and um even my mom like growing up i remember her telling me to like cover up because i have big boobs i can't help that they are biological and i actually recently saw something that like in other countries where women's breasts are just exposed no one is sexualizing them because like they think that like people who do are fucking gross and creepy because boobs are used to feed babies yep so it's creepy and gross to them and very like kind of pedophilia-esque to that they like other men in other countries sexualize breasts

and um there is a study that shows and i'm quoting like a tiktok i saw i could probably pull it up but there is a study that shows that like your brain you are trained to sexualize things you are trained to objectify um the only thing that across the board can actually like sexually stimulate people and turn them on just by looking at it is seeing two people have sex wow so porn makes sense but everything else like a woman just walking around in her bra that should not turn you on yeah and then there was another study that was a part of this that was like um showing people like what was going on in their brain at a nude beach so when they first get to a nude beach they're like turned on and like all of their their brain is just firing off and

then after an hour they become adjusted to it and it's not as shocking and that's all it takes is an hour of just hanging out being naked with people yeah but this this whole thing is really perpetuated everywhere like the whole thing like sex sells is something that we hear all the time and like different companies will always use sex to sell products because it makes people feel a type of way and so it's kind of like subliminally dropped us everywhere that like we have to be turned on by like a woman walking around in her bra like you know all of this all of this stuff is just like shoved down our throats to perpetuate this idea that like women are objects that are used to sell things or they're there just for people's consumption and like the argument can

be made about like well what about like calvin klein model like male models it feels different like when we see like like beautiful men with abs and underwear it's like whoa but then like you see women in underwear and it's always like oh god that guy fuck her like it's just always different it's different messaging and maybe people are having different kinds of conversations but those are the types of conversations that I hear happening I don't think I would ever like screenshot a picture of a guy in underwear and send it to my friends and be like I would totally fuck this guy yeah I don't I don't know no that's not something I would do either but then it's also like we see that on the beach because like men walk around without a shirt on all the time so

maybe i think about that all the time like a bra and underwear is not much different than a swimsuit it's not and i'm like what is the difference yeah here we're just like taught to treat because like men don't go swimming in their underwear i've seen it before if a woman were to dive into a pool in her bra and underwear i would be like like look at her that's supposed to be under her clothes and you know what's under her clothes her bra and underwear and you know what's under that boobs yeah oh my god it's like i'm getting like heated talking about this on tiktok i was talking about the sarah everard case out of the uk she was walking home and she never made it home and you can there's so much to unpack with that case but uh i brought up on my tiktok how men can help

their female friends feel safe and all that I said in that video was offer to walk your female friends to their cars at night and hold your male friends accountable that's all that I asked and that doesn't feel like too much of a tall order like that's not very lofty that is the bare minimum yeah that's literally the least that we can ask of you and a lot of men are doing that anyway yeah so well and first of all let's say I'm gonna say that is big dick energy behavior oh yeah 100 a lot of the comments that i was getting on this video were men being like it's not our responsibility not all men like what i didn't do anything wrong so why should i have to and it's like well you should want to because you should want us to feel safe well and you should

just care about your friends and the women in your life like and not because they're someone's daughter or mom or sister but because they're people yeah and so a lot of the comments luckily so liz had this idea for me to go through and turn some of the comments that i was getting into inspirational quotes and i was like that's fucking brilliant and i was so i was like i need to cap i needed to cap my anger i was like i cannot continue to read these dumb ass comments they were so i will be up all night they were awful flying yeah oh my god you were going to bad every time i see that you commented on one of my videos i was like oh what'd she say but if you get if you get tagged for me just know it's bad news it's over yeah she's burying you

with words um but a lot of the i went through to try to find quotes for this video and i was actually it was healing because the majority of the the comments were so great men being like done what else can i do like a lot of that um and so i was going through it and trying to find these bad comments and I was realizing that like the bad comments stand out so much more than the good comments like I was surprised that I couldn't find that many bad comments but with that said the bad comments were it was horrible what these people were saying to me they were like one guy was like you deserve a good beating and rape for asking for men to walk their female friends to their cars I searched his handle and he like says fucked up things to everybody that's

what he does he's like 17 like he's just like this kid with no life and a lot of anger in his heart but regardless like that's the shit that like it could have been anybody like he could be a 30 year old man that you know has talks to a lot of people all the time like this we don't there's no way to know because it's it's not rare it's really not and so I I made these comments into inspirational quotes thinking that that would like shut some of these people up and it like tripled since then oh really i made another video about how i also just need to say like that's so embarrassing yeah for them yeah like you are spending time acting like this i also think a lot of it is wanting attention too which is like pretty girl pay attention to me yeah and like i also make

like video replies to a lot of these comments so like they like the i know i'm like you should just not but then i know you so well i know you can't i can't not say anything you can't not and they say the dumbest stuff so it's so easy for you it's so fucking ridiculous so i've i've pulled back a lot because if i tried to make video replies or reply to all of them i would never do anything else with my time um but i like gave a bunch of other examples of how men can help us feel safe one of them was keeping distance when walking behind us at night also not a very lofty ask this none of this shit is going out of our out of your way to help no and a lot of the stuff a lot of the examples bringing awareness to it yes a lot of the examples that I was giving was

like because a lot of the guys that were like commenting shit like this isn't my responsibility they're like why don't you just learn self-defense and it's like this is actually a perfect time to bring this up I my parents have um a condo in Florida and they have friends in their building that just moved in and one of their family friends is an Olympic wrestler she's a female wrestler and they said to her like you must feel like you can like take on the world when you're walking alone at night because she can take down anybody and she was like no like I know every self-defense move that I could possibly know and I'm very strong but it's nothing when there's like two men involved or if he has a gun or if he has a knife like nothing that you can do matters so

it's not a question of self-defense and it shouldn't be our responsibility to keep ourselves safe it should be men's responsibility to learn how to not be that way to hold their friends accountable because guys are going to listen to other guys before they listen to girls period regard like they're going to listen to their bros that's just how it is not every guy blah blah whatever i fucking hate the not all men but it's just true we know that and you know that yeah and it's just saying not all men shifts the conversation it's fucking annoying oh my god one of the guys who i replied to on your videos came to my tiktok to comment on my tiktok and like yeah he was like do you ever wonder why you're single and i'm like literally in this video that you commented on

i talk about my boyfriend yeah and also like no one is doing things for the approval of men men have been taught that women do everything for their approval and men do everything for each other's approval so they can't process the idea that like women are out here not giving a fuck what they think yeah and so like these like jabs that they try and take at me it always makes me laugh when they're like well you need to go to the gym and i was like i do okay yeah and i was like thinking when i thought about it i was like well i like the way i look and that's the only person whose opinion matters yes amen yes i like how i look and i don't care if you don't like how i look and above that too i realize like when you go when i get dressed up to go out i'm not

thinking about i'm straight i'm not thinking about men i'm like thinking about like other women like oh they're gonna like these shoes and like getting compliments from drunk girls in the bathroom so much better than getting compliments from men in the bathroom than a women's bathroom at a bar yeah right i want to get complimented by a woman in a bathroom before i get complimented by a man at the bar and when i am getting ready to go out i think of how i more so think of like the aesthetic of my outfit yeah i'm more like does this go together like i'm inspired by like um kind of like that 70s look with a 60s eye like yeah and how you feel about it too yeah yeah just i don't know it's more of thinking about it like that I'm like do I yeah do I like how I look yep do I feel

good in this and I'm like if I'm looking for inspiration I'm not looking up what do men think is hot yeah I'm looking up women that I'm like wow I love how she put on her eyeliner I'm gonna try and accomplish that look tonight like I'm not like do men like a cat eye like most of them have you ever talked to a man about your makeup they're like uh you got the thing on your eyes yeah like yeah did you notice my eyebrows because that's the star of the show and they're like no they're on your face it'll take a man about two weeks to notice that you got a haircut my this is perfect uh when i saw my dad a few weeks ago um he was like um i i like your hair color a lot I like the way it looks now and I was like thanks it's my natural hair color and he's

like oh really and then my mom was like it's the same as it was at Christmas and then he just sat there and he was like bewildered and it's so cute my dad doesn't notice shit like that at all so I can tell he was trying to be like I really like your hair and like it looks nice yeah like thinking I've done something to it and I'm like dad I haven't cut my hair in like three years thank you this is a perfect example we don't do this it's because he never notices when my mom gets her hair done so I'm sure he was gonna he sees her every day that's so that's such a that's such but in my dad's defense my mom has had the same look for 20 years it's a good one bless her heart mm-hmm she got that short mom hair uh-huh if it ain't broke don't fix it exactly um okay back

back to uh the subject um so how do you handle when people come at you with these bullshit like it's not my responsibility like obviously you do video replies to some of them and they laugh it up yep they love it but the italian in me can't hold back i have i have got to clap back at people i can't take things in stride i can't just be like no but that you know think what you think i'm like no fuck you you can't get away with this i love you i love taking what they say and like flipping it yeah like um i think an example i can think of is this guy is like um he had said like it's it's not our problem and i was like yes no one should trust man men go off king yeah not even men should trust other men yeah you nailed it well that's the

thing i got a comment that was like um men are also the victims of um like yeah they are yeah by other men and that's another reason you should be worried uh-huh so shouldn't we um i don't know fix the fucking issue men are more likely to be killed and why does it have to be about yeah by for you to care yeah right just because it's not about you doesn't mean that it's not a fucking problem that's the other thing people always take my shit and they're like but you didn't address this issue and this issue and this issue and it's like i have a fucking minute dude i'm sorry i couldn't i'm sorry i couldn't fit every facet of this complex conversation into my 60 second tiktok yeah exactly like i don't know so to answer your question how i deal with it outside of me just

needing to clap back because I have zero I have no willpower I can't let it get to me on a principle level it gets to me because it's such a fucking issue and like the acrobatics that men online will do to avoid having to take any sort of responsibility is disgusting and on that level it gets to me um the other side of that is like I was a child of the internet like we're millennials like we were raised on this shit and I know how people on the internet are a lot of people say stuff that they don't actually mean and so I have to also look at it through that lens of just like these people just want attention but then on the other again the other side of that is there are so many people that aren't on the internet that actually believe things that way and I can't reach

them and like that really bugs me so it's like I can like use these comments as an example of like this is fucked up this is the exact issue but the people that need to see it aren't aren't listening they're not they're not consuming stuff that I'm they don't give a fuck about what I say and so I have to kind of put limits on my brain of like I can't take this all on like this isn't some this isn't all I can do is as much as I can do and the right men who are listening are going to take what you're saying seriously yes and I think that's what we have to try and remind ourselves where I'm at with it is like I've experienced it like harassment what I would consider what a lot of people would consider assault and I can't not say anything about it

and if I'm if it's falling on deaf ears that that's just the way that it is but like I don't feel right not talking about it and so that's why I've not stopped because it's like there are so many pickup artists on tiktok and people are eating that shit up pickup artists don't know anything okay i know that people who are listening to pickup artists are not listening to our podcast but pickup artists don't know shit no they are not dating any women they the pickup artist you did a stitch with i was like no band because i got banned today yeah but yeah i mean like they're sweet justice all of these when i watched it i was just like this guy is a clown yeah all of his videos are you can just say whatever you want i guess i mean this is actually the perfect

segue for what i wanted to say like how these pickup artists will word things is rape it's objectively rape of like this is how you get a woman to say yes when you're going yeah the majority of his videos were that way and that's why he got banned because he was teaching men how to rape women period and a lot of it was like rape oriented yeah this um it was i think in another country i don't think it was american at all um because it was in another language but it was like this girl at the gym stretching and um like she puts her leg up on something and then one guy comes up and like grabs it and then another guy comes up like he's gonna attack her what the fuck yeah like it was supposed to be like a fun little skit you reported it yeah and i reported it i was

like this is insinuating they're going to rape her yeah so and then they're like thank you for your report we've banned the video it's it's seriously it's disgusting there's just shocking i'm like remember when tiktok was fun yeah but that's the thing there's always an ugly side of the internet at that i want to talk about something we talked about on a past episode that got cut out which is the um you had a word for it it's like a rape kink oh cnc uh consent non-consent so you're consenting to the idea of no consent and you were explaining then that it kind of like softens the blow of the idea of rape because you're in control of it yeah so um a cnc kink uh women have created a cnc kink to deal with the idea of rape happening to them um because it is

so common so if you can sexualize it it becomes less traumatic and scary in your brain in the circumstance that it might happen that's another example of like carry your keys between your fingers i remember showing that video to that i saw the cnc kink um i saw that in a tiktok video and i showed it to my boyfriend and he was like just completely dumbstruck he was like that is so insanely fucked up um i also asked him i was like how do you feel about this kind of rhetoric of like uh like you know fuck men essentially or like men are trash and he was like it doesn't bother me that's the thing is like a lot of good men are like i get it like yeah men do suck a lot of the comments that i've been getting from really good guys have been like yep this fucking sucks we

suck even knowing full well that they wouldn't do these things and that's the kind of allyship that we need yeah is men understanding that i think you and i can appreciate too when people are like oh it's so annoying when white women do this you're like yeah yes totally i get that yeah but i'm not gonna be like well excuse me i'm a white woman and i think i'm an exception yeah it's like yeah i would tell myself to shut the fuck up yeah it's not my decision to make no no that's a perfect example yeah like if you're offended you're the person they're talking about and you need to look at your behavior what we could add on to this if you feel like you haven't answered this yet what do you have to say to people who comment this kind of dumb shit on

your videos the shifting of the conversation is so fucking detrimental and that's what i was saying in the beginning too we know not all men that's not the fucking issue but we also know i saw an example was like we know that not every wasp is gonna sting us but we're gonna stay away from every wasp period you ever been stung by a bee fucking sucks that shit hurts right and so i would just say like the people that are commenting this we're not villainizing every man and it's It's, I am dating a man. I'm dating a very great man. We know not all men.

Yes, I'm a huge fan of men. If you've listened to any of this podcast, I'm fond of a lot of men. It's not the fucking issue. And it diminishes our experiences hearing that just because you don't do it, we don't deserve you being there for us. that's a the the amount of energy that people pour into arguing something that would be so

simple to fix and i mean simple from like you know on a surface level there's like years and years and years of internalized misogyny that has to be broken down for this to actually become something that is a permanent change but why not do like band-aid fixes why not walk your female friends to their cars why not start just start yeah this cat is driving me nuts it's not funny and i know that a lot of trolls online do it to be like you can't send it to their friends and be like you look like a fucking and it's like no it's not funny this is not funny it's it's this is it's so frustrating what we have to go through whenever anybody asks what i would do if men didn't exist for a day i would i always say i would walk alone at night that is

always my answer and whenever any of my guy friends hear that they're like fuck like walk around naked why not i would love walking around naked it's so freeing yeah i fucking love that shit so yeah i mean like there's a lot that i would say but that's basically the gist of it is just like like just listen and take down your ego for a second and you'll understand that what we're asking for is not that extreme it's not do these men know that they're supposed to like women i don't think so it doesn't feel like it do you remember the first time you were assaulted i do I do remember the first time I was assaulted um I was 12 years old uh I was at my neighbor's house and they were having a barbecue and um one of the other neighbor boys was upstairs with me

and my brother playing a video game and um we were just like like roughhousing wrestling over the video game controller and then I like um he had his arms around me like and he was standing behind me and I dropped all of my weight onto his arms to try and get his arms to break which now I know is the self-defense mechanism oh you knew um but I was just like we were just playing and then um I remember he grabbed my chest and I remember like obviously this is more than half of my life later and I still remember it and I remember feeling like kind of icky and like it was wrong but I didn't really understand why and then now I'm like oh that was a salt that's why I've also like when I was going through puberty like at a pool party I remember someone just

grabbing my boob in front of his friends because he wanted to show off for them and like I am a 13 year old girl uh and I didn't want someone to grab my boob I hated my life I just wanted to not be noticed yeah and even at that age you've even without knowing what assault is you can still recognize how ugly of a feeling that is you have this like pit in your stomach where you're like something about this was not right um i also another time when i was babysitting um i was either 12 or 13 i was babysitting these two boys and then their uncle showed up randomly don't know why the fuck he showed up but um i don't answer the door like if i'm babysitting yeah i remember like learning like don't answer the door like yeah and um the kids ran to the

door and looked out the window and they're like that's our uncle and they let him in and um I he started talking to me and I remember he was like you look like Lindsay Lohan and that's like a really good thing and I like I did not look like this adult actress I was 13 and I remember feeling uncomfortable about that and my mom was kind of grossed out too like in general she was like something about him rubs me the wrong way like just like instances like that even when I saw my parents um recently they my mom brought up this story about like they're someone they knew who's like a family friend um and when I was a teenager like we were staying at a hotel and he came to visit my parents and I was in the hotel room like getting something or just hanging out and then he

came in and he sat next to me on the bed and I got really uncomfortable and I came out to my parents and I like told my my mom I was like yeah he came in the room and he sat down next to me and I like got uncomfortable and my mom was like that's really good that you recognize that gut feeling and I was like what to not trust adult men yeah and then her and my dad just stared at each other like yeah she's not wrong yeah um so i mean those are like some instances i remember when i was a literal child like honestly i would say anyone 19 and under is like a child you know even before you're 25 i'm like well they're still figuring it out yeah fuck your brain is still forming exactly just coming to the end of it yeah yeah god 12 years old i can't i mean like i can't begin

to imagine how that must feel and i know a lot of people experience it at that age and even sooner like and that's i i don't know i can't i was not that young the first time that i experienced assault and it was still very traumatizing so 12 like i felt like a i felt like a baby at 12 did you ever did you ever like see those guys again I never told my parents um I don't think I told anyone until I told you because I just hadn't really like thought about it um and I didn't really have to see that neighbor very often anyways uh he was a little bit older than me and then that family moved away like a few years later okay um but I'm sure he is up to no good he is pretty weird yeah obviously no kidding he also um assaulted another girl in the neighborhood

he like I remember my mom told me like he so a girl another girl who is a few years younger than me like had this like you know annoying little girl crush on him like not a big deal uh he was at least like four years older than her and you know when you're like a kid and you're like he's so cute and he's older than me yeah you're just and you follow him around and you annoy them uh he took her to like a park like near our house and like pulled his dick out and was like the fuck and told her to touch it and then she freaked out and ran home holy shit i wonder what he's up to now he's in jail hopefully fuck like if you're doing that at that age you have a very dim future yeah it's not a good start so i mean he had a history with

being a creep imagine that being your daughter no i can't i really can't i'm gonna be such a nightmare mother i'm always going to assume just a helicopter parent yeah if anybody looks at my kid sideways be like hey uh uh uh over here look at me i will kill you it's like a 10 year old i am ready to die in prison you little motherfucker stay away from my kid damn yeah just turn into liam neeson i will find you and i will kill you it's me i will be a liam neeson mom yep yes liam momson um do you remember the first time you were assaulted um i've been thinking a lot about this And like, I don't think I do. I remember the first time that I felt uncomfortable by an older boy. And that was when I was 13 or 14. And I was like one of those MySpace kids that like loved like punk rock bands that like were like hardly known. um i met or no i was messaging one of the bands on myspace and they were like 19 20 21 and i was

13 14 and i said that i wanted to meet them when they came to seattle and they were like 100 would you let us run a train on you and i was 13 so i was like i don't know what that means because of course I don't know what that means like but they were asking a child if they could gangbang a child and they they knew how old I was and that was the first time that I was like I loved any attention that I would get from these band guys and that was the first time that I was like oh that's bad and I have to be careful like that was when I first realized like I need to be careful i'm talking think of any man after the age 15 who is attracted to a 13 year old yeah yeah like uh-huh i like even just thinking about when i was in high school the high school boys i

was friends with would never be like yeah i'm interested in this 13 year old and then especially in college these boys were what 22 yeah saying that shit to a 13 year old so it's super fucked up I can't think of a single man that I know and I have I know plenty of shit men okay I know a lot of them that I'm not saying they're my friends but we've all met we've all met a lot of shitty guys I of those shitty guys I can't think of a single one who would say something like that yes no and those are the worst guys I know yeah I mean like the the things that that men will say to women or boys will say to girls that are just brushed off as like just boys being boys just men being men like I've been why is that a boy why are you made them like that they're not boys being

boys no they're boys being aggressors because you taught them to be that way yeah yes but it continues on into adulthood like I there was a higher up at my job who would always say very inappropriate things to me when I was very young in my career he would like message me on Instagram I was 23 when this was all happening he was in his late 40s he would message me on Instagram saying that like we should go to an open mic together and like I would love to like if you ever want to stay in the office late at night I can like record you playing guitar like stuff like that that was like vaguely uncomfy but like not enough for me to like bring to HR you know what I mean and then he started calling my boots my knee-high boots fuck me boots have I told you this story

yeah so yeah so he like whispered it in my ear he's like do you know what those are called and I was like riding boots and he was like aha he just like laughed and he was like no and he like leans down to my this is in the office I'm sitting at my desk he whispers in my ear they're called fuck me boots and then every single time i wore them after that he'd say nice boots nice boots yeah and he's a handsome man and i know that he's gotten away with it for so long not an excuse it's not but i know that that's the reason that he's gotten away with it as much as he has is because he's a good looking man and he would get his way a lot so it's just like i don't know those are the examples i mean that's a perfect example of someone being in a position

of power and you are unable to like actually do anything about it and yeah um i'm pretty sure a lot of people came forward about him sexually harassing them at work when it's somebody like a higher up at work that's preying on like i was as low as you could get at that company and he was right right below the top he would prey on women that were very low on the totem pole because they would say yes out of fear but at least they said yes and he was sleeping with like 10 people at that company when he was in a relationship he had he hooked up with someone in the bathroom at a holiday party while his girlfriend was at the same holiday party and this is the same kind of man that would be like oh it's not my fault i have a sex addiction and that is not a thing

it continues to not be acknowledged and added to the dsm-5 yes sex addiction is not real mm-hmm and that is the same information i got um uh at the same time as like what actually arouses people and it's watching people have sex you're not addicted to having sex you have an attachment to shame damn yeah and that's the tea that's the fucking tea even though it is like a heavy topic and will be triggering i also think that like like i said and like the chanel miller quote like i'm not just surviving we're not just surviving yeah we are living our fucking lives and we're talking about this how we would talk about anything else in our life yes yeah and like we we say this every episode we love hearing from y'all and we mean it kind of

even more now than ever that if you feel like you are relating to any of this or you have anything to add to anything that we're saying we're talking about this for the month of april but this is something that we've talked about in the past and we will continue to talk about so if there's anything that you want to hear or any two cents that you want to throw in please talk to us but with that said we know how difficult it can be to talk about so there's no pressure either way but just know that our door is always open to talk about it if you need to and you're not alone no my god um and if you are a man who's gonna message us well it's not my responsibility and women shouldn't wear skirts um go fuck yourself i'll fucking punch your lights out uh i will

yeah Amelia we'll punch your lights I've never hit anyone but I'll do it but you're not going to get the attention that you want from us uh so don't even bother wasting either of our time and also I think something important to call out is that we recognize that men can be the victims of sexual assault as well we're speaking about this from a female experience being two females talking about it we're not negating the fact that there are men that go through this as well um and we're happy to talk about that in the future a hundred percent we would love to do research on that if that's something that you want to hear but where as it stands now this is how we're talking about it yeah we're talking from our experiences we usually

end with a sex fact i don't think we're going to today but we will say the number that we said in the beginning of this episode as well um for the u.s national sexual assault hotline again if you missed it that number is 1-800-656-4673 grandpa wants you to know it's also on google if you didn't write that down um and next week we'll be diving into this a little bit deeper as well um even deeper this is heavy i'm tired i thought that we were going to record two episodes today and i'm drained um but yeah if only grandpa were as drained as you i just feel like i have a loud fat baby oh we love them though thank you for listening singing doesn't feel right no we're just gonna say we love you we love you and uh we can't wait to talk to you more about this next

week yes um and don't forget to check out our website and check out the merchandise consent is my kink um and we are donating all those profits so keep that in mind while you are shopping we hope you like it and um we love you so much we love you talk to you next week bye Oh, yeah.