The Hoely Hour - E34 Consent is my Kink Pt. 2

Episode Date: April 9, 2021

Welcome to part 2 of the Consent is my Kink series for Sexual Assault Awareness Month! The girls analyze parts of the movie "Promising Young Woman" that best highlight the struggles folks face when confronted with sexual assault in everyday life. Amelia breaks down DARVO - a tactic aggressors and manipulators commonly use when confronted about their victims. Liz shares a story about being drugged at a bar, and more. We're selling merchandise dedicated to SAAM and donating 100% of the profits to RAINN. Check it out at thehoelyhour.com, or donate to RAINN yourself and share a screenshot of your donation with us! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. May slow when network is busy. Hi, folks. We're starting off this episode with a trigger warning. April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month. We're doing a two-part episode series for the month of April in an effort to

help bring awareness to issues humans face every single day. If you know us, you know we like to say consent is my kink often, and consent is a huge part of intimacy for everyone. We've created merchandise that we're selling on our website, theholyhour.com, and we're donating 100% of the profits to rain the rape abuse and incest national network for sexual assault awareness month if you're sensitive to topics relating to sexual assault we recommend you skip this episode but if you still want to contribute feel free to check out our merchandise or donate to rain directly if you or someone you know needs help call the national sexual assault hotline at 1-800-656-4673 have you ever been curious if something's a kink and so you look it up on a porn site

no but i will be doing that now yeah what do you have any specific examples farting on cakes on cake like to blow out the candles no maybe that'd be kind of cool trick farting on cake was one of them what was the other one that i looked up will you explain that train of thought to me how did you get there well okay so i didn't originally look for farting on cake i originally looked for farting kink because i was like what is the least sexy thing that i can think of that might be a kink and it was farting and i already know shitting is one because of two girls one cup i've never seen that and i never will it's it's literally the worst it's up there with a david dobrik video for me i'm just not gonna watch it i refuse i don't care

if everyone is talking about it i'm not gonna watch it god i'm so heartbroken over that whole thing uh but yeah i eventually saw saw videos of um people farting on cakes so that's a thing that exists in the world and i thought maybe it was labeled as comedy you know there's like comedy porn it wasn't comedy but you know i'm not gonna kink shame but like cake like i want to know what happens in someone's life for them to end up with a farting on a cake kink welcome to the holy hour i'm amelia sanson and i'm liz ball thank you for joining us for part two of our consent is my kink series for sexual assault awareness month i like feel it's it's difficult i'm so used to just like shooting the shit with you on these

episodes you know and i don't it's that's obviously not um appropriate for this series so i'm feeling a little uncomfy i'm more nervous today than i was last week yeah me too i think it's because we're wrapping it up and there's a lot to talk about yeah that's true that's a good point it feels like uh when i first start my therapy sessions and my therapist and i are just staring at each other like well i'm here again for another week yep i have the hardest time jumping into topics yeah we just stare at each other for the first couple of minutes and i'm like i'm a little uncomfortable yeah do you have any other kids she doesn't tell me anything about her life i don't blame her yeah i know yeah my therapist is very structured about how much

she tells me about her life i know that she has a couple of kids and that where her first job was that's it that's it even though i dig she's very masterful at keeping things yeah i found mine on Facebook but there's nothing that I can see it's just her face your therapist looks like a cool ass person she is a cool ass person the way she talks is very like proper and uh she enunciates every single syllable does she have a PhD do you know yes what a smart ass love that um speaking of therapists uh my um fitness instructor who has listened to a few episodes we were like talking a little bit before one of the classes started and um he was like the craziest people who come in here are actually like therapists like some of the most insane

people I've met and uh he's like that makes me nervous and then I asked if it was any of them were named like my therapist name and he was like no and I was like thank god oh phew I low-key wonder if my therapist listens yeah I mean our psychiatrist does we're special we're not saying were her favorites but just kidding Amelia's her favorite we're both such huge fans of hers she's fantastic anyway okay let's now that we've gotten our psychiatrist love out of the way we have a lot to talk about today uh so to kind of pick up where we left off um one of the things that we wanted to talk about was promising young woman and this will contain spoilers for the movie um sorry about it but uh i think that they did a really great job of just like showing that this

happens to every single woman um i really like how they made carrie mulligan just look like a regular girl i was just about to say that and like how she carried herself to her personality was it kind of covered a lot of grounds for different personalities she was like confident but not confident and like you know not really like blossomed into who she is but was very much rooted in who she is you know like they really covered a lot of ground on personality structures to make it feel like it really she was everyone which was really really well done I also like that so someone made like I can't remember what website it was but they did a review of her in this movie and they essentially implied like she wasn't hot enough to play like a femme fatale and

then she called them out on it good and then they had like a big apology about it and they're like you're totally right she's like you missed the point of the movie and she's like i i don't know like you're criticizing and obviously since i apologize whatever but um i liked there's a scene where like she has like these really shitty hair extensions yeah and when i was thinking about it i was like that's just like some drunk girl out at the bar that's perfect like she doesn't need to be like fierce and ferocious looking in every single scene like she needs to look like every single woman and um also like for them to imply like carrie mulligan isn't hot enough to play this role i'm like have you seen her yeah she's beautiful right that was never a question for

sure and even if she wasn't it's just like what though you completely went it went completely over your head um and aside from uh those types of things like the character development and the plot line and things like that the scenes were like visually beautiful i also not that that's relevant but they all they make some very obvious allusions to um like the bible yeah um just how she sacrifices herself for exposing the bad behavior of men she was a martyr yeah there was a lot of like i don't know it was cool i called out i was watching it to my family and i called out that there was like a lot of religious imagery in it and there were some scenes that i wouldn't have even noticed it and my brother would be like oh there's one and we'd pause it and it was like

it was cool because and discuss yeah it's fun and it made you it was cool because not only was it like a martyr image because that's what this character was but like it showed too that every single part of this movie was important like even the stuff that you didn't think was I think that throwing in stuff like that that it's like only a few people might notice it or like you wouldn't notice it unless somebody told you shows like how much attention to detail was paid through the whole movie and like it came down I've heard you talk about this a lot like it came down to the casting of who they cast as these like shitty guys um like everything was just chosen so carefully yeah so let's get into the the men that they casted so um a lot of the men that are

in this movie are just like Hollywood sweethearts like they're they're good boys to us like um Bo bernham oh my god he did an amazing job i absolutely despised him yes um because i loved him and then he made me despise him i didn't realize he could act he was phenomenal yeah he's i deeply admire him um and then also uh like mclovin yeah the guy who plays mclovin i'm sorry i can't remember his name and then the guy who plays um adam brody is that that's his name what adam brody is he in there he's at the beginning of it oh sure that i have he was the guy that tried that um was with his friends in the beginning oh okay there's also yeah google it up uh and then there is max what's his face in um green yeah schmidt yeah he's schmidt a new girl

and then if you've seen glow the um the wrestling announcer and glow i love him and glow he's adorable so there are these men those are like some of the men in this movie that like you know you recognize you love them you love the roles that they're in and they behave so terribly like taking advantage of drunk women bringing them home and then they'll start kissing her and then she she's just pretending to be drunk and then she um will be like no no and then they're like it's fine or they'll keep going and then she stops and she's like i said no and then they're like what the fuck and then they're like you're fucking crazy and she's like you were about to assault me like what do you not understand about no so she's just going out there pretending to

be drunk to teach these dumb fuck guys a lesson and that's how it starts and then uh she does all this because her best friend was uh raped while they were in medical school and um the her best her best friend brings it to the school's attention they do an investigation and they don't do anything about it and she they basically imply that she um dies by suicide so uh carrie mulligan's character is out for blood and um she works at a coffee shop and uh this guy that she went to medical school with beau burnham like comes in and like um i don't know they hit it off and you just adore him and he's a pediatric surgeon yeah and he's funny and clever and he takes her shit and like i don't know uh she spits in his coffee and then he drinks it yeah because

he's like i deserve it and then the uh the person she's working with at the coffee shop is just like what the fuck is going on i love her so much one of the instances that i think that really hits home is Bo Burnham's character oh Alison Brie's in it too so Alison Brie also went to medical school with them and um Alison Brie like victim blames the best friend who has died and she's like well she shouldn't have been so drunk and then nobody's gonna believe you when you sleep with the whole school anyway yeah and um we all know those people yep and then uh carrie mulligan gets allison brie's character like belligerently drunk and uh she makes her absolutely lose her mind thinking that she went home with some guy and like slept with him and allison brie's character

is married and then she realizes like oh i was so drunk i could have been taken advantage of and um then she confesses to carrie mulligan that there was a video that went around and she sends carrie mulligan the video she leaves the phone with her uh-huh and when she starts watching it it's Bo Burnham's voice recording this video and I remember being absolutely enraged yeah I mean they did such a good job of having us fall in love with him like he was like the one good guy in the movie like we knew that she was like trying to get revenge on all these awful men and then the one good guy they had this whole like falling in love sequence like her life was finally falling into place and then he was also involved with it and this is perfect for the David Dobrik example too

he is he was this sweet guy that everyone loved and then um like I was reading a comment that explained what what happened essentially and it was just that uh these girls were like incredibly drunk and they pressured them into having a threesome and like um they were like poking their heads in and laughing and filming outside of the door and she was like i there's like a video of one of them not even being able to stand up like it's just fucked up yeah and like this movie does a perfect job of showing that this fucking happens all the time yeah yeah the one good guy is out there doing shit like this and encouraging it so last year for sexual assault awareness month I had written a piece about um an experience I had with just like safety and

objectification in my past relationship and I am gonna read it because I think that it still rings true and originally when I wrote it I was really worried about sharing it um because I was worried that like his friends would read it and what was your fear with that well like what would it mean for his friends to read it i just think that it's so easy for us to be on the outside of something and be like oh that director or actor or musician abuses women and does bad things he's a bad guy but when it's someone we know like or are familiar with people are less likely to believe you and to challenge you and that's where the victim blaming happens so I think that was a worry for me of people just thinking like oh she's just writing about this to like get back at him or to get

revenge or whatever and that wasn't the case at all like it wasn't something I had initially thought about until I had been in therapy and like had multiple experiences where I was reflecting on things that had happened um that made me realize like this behavior sucks and if someone that i loved and trusted was treating me this way like how many other women is this happening to so when i wrote this i titled it look under the mask which is a little ironic whoa um all right a few nights ago i changed the caption on one of my instagram pictures from august 2018 i was sitting on my couch staring at myself in the eyes wondering why this picture was so painful for me to look at i didn't know when i had taken it i was going to have a terrible night and that would be the

turning point of my relationship but it's not the end of the relationship that had made me sad it was something else from somewhere buried deep in my chest it was an accumulation of feelings caused by the experiences i've had of being sexually objectified and harassed that has resulted in my weariness of my own safety physically and emotionally and this time it happened to be captured in a photograph. I realized that the grief of being sexually harassed and assaulted hides behind photos of smiling women. Here's what I wrote. 3 30 20 edit. I love this picture but it also makes me incredibly sad. This night I went to a themed party with my boyfriend at the time. By the end of the night I was incoherently drunk. He knew that but he chose

to leave me alone at the casino so he could go to a club. When I remember that I feel a deep sense of sorrow. I think about my parents and I think about my past. I think about the times I've been sexually harassed, groped by strangers in crowded bars, and even drugged. I think about my parents doing everything they could to protect me and hoping the person I chose to be with would want to protect me too. It must be painful to watch your child grow up while wondering if your best was good enough, praying that nothing bad ever happens to them, and leaving your child in the hands of their partner surely you loved them fiercely enough to show how to choose a good partner one who loves them and will protect your child and their heart the way you do

but instead their partner abandons them leaving them unsafe and incoherent dressed in a revealing costume vulnerable enough that if something bad happened they'd be defenseless a few months later I was living alone in Seattle crying to my mom on the phone that I thought we were going to break up she brought up the night he left me in the casino she started crying and said when you're a parent you want your child to be with someone who loves them as much as you do I could have my heart break a million times but nothing will ever compare to the gut-wrenching heartache of hearing the hurt in my own mother's voice as she tearfully pleaded with me to leave someone who wouldn't do the simplest thing to love and protect me I don't need to explain what happened behind the closed

doors of my relationship all i can say is it has been incredibly difficult to overcome the mental anguish of leaving a relationship where your partner actively objectifies you manipulates you using shame and threats and tells you to use his own words that you are just a fleshlight who talks to me this is only a small scale example of what women endure every day men like this don't show who they are underneath a perfectly curated mask of a successful smart creative funny white male to everyone it's in intimate relationships with romantic partners believe women don't stand idly by when your friends treat women in ways that demean them by disguising their behavior as just a couple bickering look at the signs in front of you hear the true message behind the words being

said speak out instead of silently agreeing with your wife or girlfriend or mother women can no longer carry the weight of being the only ones to protect only ones protecting each other we need the brothers fathers and friends of women to speak up even when it's hard even when you don't want to believe a man that you know could ever do something like that i can't tell you how much i would have appreciated the times a man groped me if another man told him he couldn't touch me like that or if my ex-boyfriend's friends had asked me if i was okay or needed help getting home instead of their relationship is getting rocky or when i was drugged if a man had told my aggressor plainly to fuck off instead of saying it's okay because you weren't raped behind the events of being drugged

groped or abandoned are all the same message women are objects in the eyes of men you know this message is ingrained and emphasized through each experience like this that we endure the pain grows with each new experience and it never really goes away it's woven into what has shaped me alongside the fibers of resilience and determination i'll end by saying thank you to the amazing men in my life who do advocate for women and have challenged themselves to recognize inequality and equity and not only gender but race and sexual and gender identities and have the awareness to speak out I know it can be hard but it's easier when we have men like you by our side so that's what I wrote a year ago and I remember after I shared it some random person

on twitter dm'd me i sent you this dm'd me a mansplanation a man dm'd you a mansplanation of what objectification is and he was like i don't think it's a problem with objectification i think that um people just like remove other people's humanity and only think about themselves and i'm like yeah that's the definition of fucking objectification my guy moron he's like i'm 20 i'm a 22 year old man and i don't feel objectified by other men i'm like you don't say but if somebody said that to me in person i would deck them in the face it's just like the the i know you're trying to relate to me right now but it's so tone deaf it's just so tone deaf this is so you sent this to me before you and i this was like at the beginning of like us getting closer

and I was like I had no idea that you had been through any of this because I was hearing about your relationship kind of on the fringes and I knew that you guys had broken up but I didn't really know any details and how you wrote this piece is in a way of like you did such a good job with showing like because you and I have talked about this a lot like it's sure like these things are on a spectrum and like some things are more painful than others like in the broad scheme but it makes women feel like even if they're like they just get their like ass grabbed in a bar like well at least you were raped or at least you weren't drugged and it's like no like that doesn't this is rape culture yep yeah this is the culture surrounding enabling that behavior

and nobody and and the you said in here too the people that you go out with to bars and clubs or whatever you should know that they have your back if anything happens especially your partner this is someone that you love and is supposed to love you and nothing he did could ever like make up for that yeah I was incredibly lucky that like I was able to get home I like the parts I do remember i could not figure out how to get home i lost like a couple credit cards and my id too and i'm like how did i even make it home with my fucking phone yeah and then i don't know it was just a disaster of a night and like for a lot of reasons and i remember like commenting in they had a group chat like him and all of his friends and I was in it and I asked where he was and no one responded

and then he was just like embarrassed and I was like you was embarrassed left me you left me alone when you knew I was not okay I like you had recently posted you could cut this out if you don't feel comfortable with this but you recently posted conversations that you found with him and how he would talk to you when you guys were broken up with the manipulation like there was like venom dripping in his words like in a way that he knew that he could he knew or at least he thought because of history that he could talk his way out of anything and it wasn't even in a suave way like it was really bad like uh no respect to give you guys some context um this was after we broke up and he told me um not to wear a skirt if we ever met up at a bar

that seriously it's reading that made my blood boil um I will say also though uh he like said something about like oh and don't wear any sexy underwear or something and I was like if we aren't having sex then it doesn't matter what I'm wearing underneath and then I like changed his words and I was like um she was asking for it because she was wearing underwear and then he was like oh fuck I'm like do not fuck with me yeah I you no longer have the excuse of being my boyfriend I just talked to me like that I don't know and um I feel really ashamed having put up with that a lot and I also like I do wonder what his friends think I wonder if they actually like believe anything that I had written and maybe they do maybe they don't but you know that he

is in their ear one way or another but you shouldn't feel ashamed of putting up with it because people that I think a lot of people that are listening can relate to the fact that like when you love somebody and you want to make something work you're willing to look past a whole bunch of shit because you're worried about losing them and like there's an actual chemical reaction going on where you don't want to lose them and that's like blinded by love is like such a thing that's like a saying for a reason so I don't think that you should be ashamed I think you were a victim of something and and the way he is to his friends is definitely not how he treated me like um he would never treat his friends the way he treated me and uh

i think that's also why it would it it can be hard for women to come forward or to be believed because of course he's not going to treat his friends the way he's treating you yeah there is a different level of trust in a romantic relationship you are trusting each other with a lot of stuff and and people that are doing something shady with in the most like you know that's like a very vanilla way to say it but really anything shady and they're being calculated about it they're already laying groundwork in the background to make it so that they have their ass covered if any of it comes out so like he does something bad he's like oh god Liz was being so crazy last night like it's even if you weren't it then he's told the story and then if he gets

called out on something it's like oh yeah that was something she was being crazy I told you about it they lay the groundwork it truly makes me wonder about his past relationships i'm like were they actually crazy or were you really shitty because you're pretty shitty to me yeah and i have done the least like aggressive things if if a guy if every single one of a guy's exes is crazy it's him i don't know every single one you're the common denominator there especially when there's actual problematic behavior going on maybe some guys just date all crazy women but it like for stuff like I'm putting crazy and I'm not actually I'm putting crazy in air quotes if a man calls all of his ex-girlfriends crazy there's a good chance that he made them that way you know what I mean

especially when you have a personality like that and like reading those texts now he was talking to you and you guys weren't even together like that's I I didn't even post like some of the worst ones because I I don't know it does make me like I I'm at a point now where I'm so far from the point of impact that like it doesn't upset me yeah the way it has in the past and I wasn't even intentionally looking for those screenshots I was like looking for something else and then um I came across like a stream of text that I had screenshot and I was just like shocked I was like because because part of you is always like well maybe I was being a little dramatic because I was so hurt to like lose this relationship and then uh all the realizations

after it of like how fucked up our relationship was and then being like oh my god I can't believe I was that dumb I thought I knew better I'm ferocious yeah but like those are like that's what rose-colored glasses is and then rereading those texts I was just like nope I was not being dramatic at all and he fucking sucks yeah yeah and that that causes damage like that that is like long-lasting damage I don't know being treated like shit in any capacity changes you and when it's something i'm avoidant probably i mean like our our relationships shape us friendships romantic relationships familial relationships everything shapes us and so like of course you would be scared to get close to somebody and get hurt by them because you had these examples

of it happening yeah i don't know dude anyway thank you for reading that thank you for letting me yeah of course I think yeah the next thing that I have in this bullet point I think um why it's hard for women to talk about their experiences ties into your situation with someone who is not necessarily saying he's in the public eye is a stretch he's an internet he's an influencer I guess the smallest scale influencer he has a large fan base and hearing you talk about too being afraid of what his friends would think because you didn't know what what your ex was saying to them and how these people will lay groundwork is exactly what this guy was doing because I mean I could talk about this for three episodes this whole thing was such a fucking web

but um I was I mentioned this on a past episode actually that we were going to talk about this more in depth and here we are doing it um I talked about a guy on this show I'm not going to say his name again but you might be able to piece it together so after we talked about him on the episode I reached out to him and asked if it was okay for us to say his name and he said yes and then he wanted to hear it after we talked about him so after that he I guess started listening to the podcast I don't know if that's the truth or not whatever I can definitely see him telling you that and not actually yeah just to like make him seem like super dedicated and wiggle his way interested he yeah he messaged me on Instagram and said Amelia may I take you on a date sometime

he doesn't live in Washington but I was fucking hyped because this man was and I said this when we talked oh this is gonna be too this is gonna give it away if I say that no this man's just not my type like physically not normally what I go for but there's something about him that is very attractive and it's how he carries himself how he talks to people makes them feel special and when you're talking to him you feel like you are the even if it's just in a small exchange he makes you feel like you're the only person he's talking to that in that moment and I got pretty into him but not in a way that was attached luckily um now I know that was luckily but I had fun talking to him we ended up having like a couple of FaceTime dates um he was saying stuff he called

me one day and was like I want to fly you out to see me just let me know the dates I'm so excited this is what we're gonna do we're gonna build a fort here's all the movies we're gonna watch he was like so sweet about it he I don't know he just like really pulled out all the stops and I felt pretty special I was like why me and I asked him because part of me was like what what is up with this why me you know I think I'm great but like at first I was like stoked for you because I was like oh this is like kind of cool because um like thinking about how many girls like would totally wish that that was them he had hundreds of thousands of followers and it's like you can't help but be a little excited yeah because you're like oh wow like I think I'm great and it's really

cool that like someone who has is getting some like bombarded by attention it is able to notice me yes exactly um is taking the time to notice me and make me feel special yeah um and like I mean obviously you can think that in any context like oh wow this guy is great like I feel really special yeah um but when you know how busy someone is and how much they're constantly being like sought after you're like oh god I didn't even have to like chase after you like you came to me exactly and it feels really nice you're like wow yeah um so I think that's also why it felt special but I remember like you uh seeing something that he like tweeted or um I don't know maybe you sent me a screenshot of like your conversations and I was reading it and I was with my boyfriend and I

was like this guy gives me like weird energy and then he's like why and I like read it to him and he's like that seems pretty like harmless to me and I was like maybe I'm being dramatic you gotta trust your gut my gut was right I was like there's something off whenever you feel anything off about any guy I need you to because now I'm like well shit because I knew it would run its course I had no I mean part of me was unsure about it just because of I'm damaged but like I didn't have any bad gut feelings about it because he was so good at being like I'm giving you my number I don't give anybody my number like he was doing a lot of that he was like I don't know I just feel like I've known you my whole life he was saying stuff that I was feeling that I hadn't said to

him you know like it just feels so familiar with you he was like I wonder how much mirroring he does probably a ton and and I think that he was doing some research on like my tweets and shit to connect with me on stuff because he was talking about movies that I tweeted about like way back when that I was like he wouldn't have dug but I think he did because this guy was calculated af so anyway so he on the thursday before valentine's day calls me on his way back from work and he's like i want to buy you a ticket to see me and i was like oh my god like shit it's real yeah i was like okay okay and i played it off cool i was like absolutely in my head i was like fuck this i'm gonna get murdered and we've said this in the past and i'll reiterate it um if amelia ever goes to

see any man i will be there if you are a man listening trying to see amelia i will be there i'm gonna be yeah it's like that's i'll be watching you anyway liz will kick your ass yeah so i was like let's connect on monday about it because i need to figure out some logistics stuff he was like absolutely and then he just started listing all this shit we were gonna do together Saturday he sent me he ghosted you right well yeah so Saturday he sent me something I don't remember what it was and then Valentine's Day was Sunday and he called me and no it was Monday whatever day Valentine's Day he called me and wished me a happy Valentine's Day I was like I hope you're having an amazing weekend and then the following Monday I sent him

a song that I thought he would like didn't hear from him and then I sent him another text two days later being like hey I know we've both been so busy like hope you're having a good week so far nothing and then left him a voice note nothing and then I started realizing that he was like publicly engaging with this girl like very very publicly on Twitter and he never likes anyone's tweets unless they mention him and this girl's it was showing up on my newsfeed I wasn't digging for it again I wasn't emotionally invested in this guy so I wasn't doing any sort of like my typical FBI work when I'm when I'm into someone but it was showing up on my news feed Twitter was like girl you need to be paying attention to this and I was seeing he was

liking all of her selfies she was posting she was saying stuff like I love being in love like all of this stuff and I was like I bet you anything he flew this girl out for Valentine's Day so that's when my investigative work started anyway long story short that was the case she ended up moving across the country to live with him after they met once and i talked about her on a past episode she seemed like a really really nice girl i was really concerned for her and she ended up moving there um and he is totally publicly love bombing her um has completely ghosted his whole fan base these these people were like genuinely loved him this like character that he had and he completely abandoned all of them and they're obviously upset about that like that's not

that's not these people gave you a career and he's just kind of like fuck you he made a playlist that's titled since you guys are stalking my spotify here's a playlist for you and it was just the song fuck you by two feet like he's he's not a good dude very dramatic since rude well and then he's also lashing out like this because people were calling him out on his problematic behavior well he was talking to 11 girls 11 i was one of 11 how much time and that's just the ones that have come forward does he have there is a person from his hometown who started airing out all of his shit on Twitter and they were saying stuff very publicly and calling him out by name and his fan base kind of went for this person because we had no I mean I didn't come for them

but like we all had no reason to believe that he was a bad person anyway that person is now like leading this crusade and 11 people came forward to them about being involved with this guy and he was so i think there's any who were on twitter there has to be there has to be there has to be so there's a minimum of 11 women that he was like entertaining and he said like a lot of the same shit to all of you guys it was like he was using like a bot to talk to all of us it was like word for word stuff that he was saying and there was one girl that he was really heavily involved with who is one of the sweetest people I've ever talked to all of us talk now like a sisterhood and that's kind of like how you are with the girls from uh bachelor live on stage

yeah yeah you know we all bond over a man's shittiness um but she was publicly love love bombed by him and he found a way to villainize her for his fuckery and she had receipts and so she posted all of them and he disappeared he deleted his twitter he doesn't have a twitter anymore he oh he accidentally liked one of my reels on instagram last week and then immediately blocked me because he knew that i would see it i did i'm always on my phone bitch i saw it he is obviously always on his phone too yeah so it's just like anyway all this to say like he was using this power dynamic to make people think that he was a good person he had this love bombing behavior that and i don't say this lightly like actual cult leaders use of the

psychological manipulation you did when we were talking and you know what he's short like charles manson he is he's fucking short also this is a shout out to um my best friend anna because she was like she saw she's like um so i saw amelia like posting about this and she's like i did some digging and she sent me screenshots of his like old old old pictures and she was like why would we ever trust a man who looks like this yeah I know all of his old band photos yeah I know dude um but this brings me to something called DARVO my parents friends in Florida one of them is a professor of women's studies and she told me about DARVO which is an acronym for deny attack and reverse victim and offender which is a manipulation strategy that psychological abusers use where the

abuser denies the abuse ever took place attacks the victim for attempting to hold the accuser accountable and claims that they the abuser are actually the victim in the situation thus reversing the reality of the victim and the offender this usually involves not just playing the victim but also victim blaming and I read this and I was like fucking hell that's exactly what he's doing he he talked to the person that runs his fan page and was like talking shit about this girl that put him on blast that he had the relationship with and then told the the person that led the fan page to post screenshots of their conversation so that everybody would see what he was saying about this girl so that he could look like the victim and he completely reversed the

story and he knew that he could because he knew that he had all of these people backing him and that went to shit because like we have receipts everybody's seeing what you're doing but there are still a lot of people that are supporting him he still has an entire fan base and it's just been scary seeing the power dynamic that he has and knowing that he is knowing exactly what he's doing and how to use it and he's gotten this girl to move across the country for him and and he's fine and he's happy with his life and he feels nothing and he's hurt a lot of people in the process one of the girls that i was talking to was so hurt by it like she was having such a hard time getting over it because she got emotionally invested she was like about to go

out to see him and he disappeared and like i don't know if you like someone if you end up liking one of the girls that you're talking to that is fine yeah that's totally fine but the problem that happened is like he he lied pretty like egregiously like he told every single one of these girls they were the only one that did not have to be no like he could have just been honest and I'm sure it would have been fine he was like I mean to be honest like I am talking to a lot of girls but like you know that's what happens when you're dating in your 20s like yeah sometimes you end up talking to a lot of people and that's yeah you're allowed to you're allowed to date multiple people until you like figure out what you like and what you want and maybe

you're not expecting something to develop with someone and then it does yeah that is fine and then um for him to lie about it and be like you're the only person i'm talking to no no reason and it's because he probably didn't want them talking to anybody else yeah he wanted to be the only one yep and then um after that for them to come forward and be like this fucking hurt my feelings and then for him to be like well fuck you you took it the wrong way yeah that's just flirting it was just friendly banter is what he said it's just friendly banter it's like all you have to say is like i'm sorry that i hurt your feelings like yep you can be ashamed of hurting someone's feelings but own up to it yep just be like i i didn't mean to hurt your feelings and i'm sorry

that i did yeah that's that's all that he has literally that's all anybody ever wanted when you're a sociopath uh you don't believe anyone else could like you're you could ever be wrong it's everyone else's fault he lacks all of his empathy like he has no empathy and it's it's honestly it's pretty scary to watch because he turned it off so quickly and really like you're saying all he had to do was be like i was talking to a lot of people and like i didn't think i would get feelings for someone and i did easy peasy that would suck for a lot of the girls but they wouldn't be like what the fuck because it was whiplash for a lot of these girls and he was saying stuff to all of us that was like you don't understand I don't text anybody back like I just

always want to be talking and you're like you're on your toes Amelia you're like okay well I'm talking to several men yeah what are you gonna do to be the one who stands out keep my attention bitch but yeah I mean the whole thing was fucked up and I feel really bad for all the people that he actually hurt again like i said luckily i wasn't somebody that got invested no still like really floored by this whole thing i think the part that is the scariest to me is that he tried to lean on this fan base to discredit these women that's really scary he could have gotten away with a lot worse if like i mean the types of women he was trying to appeal to are a very smart and powerful kind of woman so they uh realized who he was pretty quickly yeah so yes that's so true

they started their own little group of women supporting women and they don't need this man to be the thing that brings them together anymore um which is pretty fucking dope yeah uh if any of you are listening shout out to you guys but um yeah i do think it is like that this is just a small scale example of like why it is so hard for women in hollywood to come forward let alone just an everyday woman yeah like because these men who are in a position of power are able to manipulate their followers and fans into like victim blaming and um trying to discredit these women saying they want they're just saying this stuff for attention like oh now you're saying it like yeah why didn't you come forward sooner it's like oh this guy isn't even famous no and that's the thing is like

this is the backlash just like a few women started to get until multiple came forward yeah yes and and we don't probably don't even know all of them and that's a lot of people are like i don't understand how anyone could like get into a cult like but then you something like this happens where somebody is so capable of making you feel so special that you're willing to believe anything that they say and this was also like the same because that's it that's part of being a human is we all want to feel special we all want to feel like we're unique individuals and we're special and you are and like you can like the same things yeah and still be special yes but this was the same kind of thing that happened with i mean there's so many fucking layers to this i don't

even want to start getting into it but the harvey weinstein thing like harvey weinstein was thanked as much at the oscars as god like actually his name was mentioned almost as much as god's name was mentioned for a certain amount of years and people are like well why didn't you ever come forward about harvey like why is it just coming out now it's because this man held the power that god does in their career that why would anybody believe this kind of like you know a pa on set over Harvey Weinstein and obviously this is not to that scale but on a smaller scale that's what happened with this guy it's like he had he has a lot of power everybody looks up to him and then there's these people that like maybe want to look special that like he picked them because they like

have nothing else going for them and it's like no because these people will seek out people and obviously this guy didn't do a very good job because everybody that he was involved with was did not think twice to call him on his shit but they're really good at scoping out the vulnerable people that they know is safe to attack because they won't come out or they won't talk to one another or they're low down enough on the totem pole that nobody would believe them and that's why it's so important to and it's so hard it's so fucking hard to speak up but when we're finally able to and we feel empowered to that's when these men stop feeling like they can do this because even if they're coming for the people that are quote unquote at like the bottom of

the totem pole they still should be afraid that that person's going to come forward and that's what was so fucking dope about the me too movement was like people had like a path to be like yep me too me too like and there really wasn't that before like to be able to see that people have experienced this for years and years and years and haven't felt empowered to say anything about it and it made i was talking to i was talking to music man about this last night actually and he was saying like it made him look back and he's very so he's never made me feel uncomfortable i obviously can't speak for other people but like he's always been very careful and he said to me he's like the whole me too movement made me look back on my whole history and be like was there any

moment that maybe i made somebody feel uncomfortable and that's the level of attention that people need to pay yeah like to because it's easy to be ashamed to want to think about or to like think about that to be faced with that like and you like I do this a lot too where I think back to my past and of course I am ashamed of a lot of things that I've said and done and so is grandpa of course it's hard to admit to yourself the things that you've done that have hurt other people. Um, but like you need to allow yourself to change and grow and challenge those things that are hard to think about. And I think a lot of the times this is this kind of conversation is interpreted as like men versus women. And that's not it at all. Like we know plenty of men

who are amazing people and would be the first people to back us up and stand up for what's right and all we're saying is we want more of that yes because there is power in numbers and unfortunately like that's how it has to be is like this is what you can use your privilege for as a man is to be like to back up women and believe women that's a huge thing and like yeah if one of your friends or some guy at a bar is being shitty to like at least be there yeah to be there as someone who like can help us defend ourselves maybe not even physically but just to have one other person be like hey fuck off yeah um a small scale example of this is um uh one time I was at a bar in my college town with my brother so I had graduated and I

was back in town for one of my friend's graduations because he's a few years younger than me and I was like at my I just started making real money like adult money which wasn't that much but it's way more than I ever had in college so I was like I'll buy everyone's dollar drinks um but I went to a bar with him and like it was packed and uh which is a crazy statement to say right now I haven't been in a crowded bar in over a year um so I was we were just in this packed bar and we're waiting in line for the bar and like someone kept grabbing my ass and I thought it was one of my friends I was with so I turned to her and I was like are you grabbing my butt and she's like what no and then I like was looking around and my brother's like what are you looking

for and I was like someone is grabbing my butt and then he finally saw who was doing it and it was like some random guy that I didn't know and then my brother was like hey don't touch her and then the guy was like um he's like oh I'm sorry is that your girl and then um I think my brother he was like no that's my sister but the guy didn't hear him and he's like I'm sorry and then it's not that I'm I'm like someone's girl I was just about to say that I am someone's sister yeah and just I'm someone's daughter yeah I'm just someone don't fucking touch me like that unless I agree to let you touch me like right just because you're like maybe someone's property like that doesn't mean that you are more or less like worthy of being treated like that yeah it's so fucked up

and that's an argument i see a lot that's someone's sister that's someone's mom i said this on last episode it's like no no that's just like she's just a person just trying to exist she doesn't want to be groped trying to like get a drink at a bar that's not too much to fucking ask and that's the guy like fucked off immediately and my brother was like and then he apologized to me too and then my brother was like that went a lot better than i thought it was going to i thought i was gonna have to fight him i love that your brother did that i just i don't think he's ever gotten into a fight either he was fucking ready to go don't fuck with my sister but like that's we come through when we need to that is a perfect example of the difference it makes when

a man steps in exactly and a lot of men that i've been having these conversations with on tiktok too have been like well we don't want to we don't want to get you know we don't want to get involved and it's like well i didn't want to be grabbed yeah and also men are more likely to fuck off if they're approached by another man than if they're approached by a woman or her friends or just the woman tells them to stop that's not even a blanket statement that's factual because maybe she belongs to somebody else which is the fucking stupidest thing but even then like i love when my guy friends pretend to be my boyfriend in a bar like that makes me feel safe and that's fucked up that we have to resort to that but when they step in like that and they're just like hey

babe and the guy fucks off I feel safer knowing that they're there I don't like the message of that like they should leave me alone anyway even if I don't have a boyfriend there but knowing that my guy friends are around to help me feel safe makes a huge difference and always does the trick and this isn't a lot to ask it's just not a lot to ask no it's so fucked hey don't grab her ass do you know her that's it that's all that needs to happen even if you do know her is she okay with that like yeah men getting shame from other men goes a long way but this is also men shame your friends shame your friends and then stop being friends with them yeah well okay so this actually just leads in exactly what i was just about to say um if you if you haven't seen promising young

woman maybe skip the next five minutes because this is the end of the movie i'm gonna give you a sec okay they're gone but the end of promising young woman if you've seen it you know that she ends up getting killed by the guy who raped her friend in college and he is chained to the bed in this scene and his the best man comes up and she's dead on the bed and he's like I killed her and his friend was like it's okay man you didn't mean to do it like it's not your fault it's not your fault it's okay everything's fine and the guys this is schmidt it's schmidt that's so like low-key it's a little funny but also like infuriating and such a perfect example of yeah of just be oh it's not your fault you didn't mean to and like like um he absolutely did he

smothered her and she struggled for about five minutes that scene was so painful to watch i was so mad i was like no she's the main character she can't die uh-huh and it's so great honestly when i saw that i was like really that's how they ended it but i was thinking about it and it's like no that's good like that that's a reality that we have to think about even if a lot of us don't get killed for confronting a man that's always a thought that we have and to know at least me and she planned ahead that she might die yeah yeah and that's a perfect example of like men kind of enabling their friends without I mean this was a very extreme example but a lot of the guys that I know that I don't think would ever enable their friends might just because it's like a bros

before hoes thing that we hear all the time you know like they'll always have their boys backs and in a lot of instances that's not doing your friend any favors by having their backs they shouldn't be acting like that at all so that is a really great point too it's like his friend being like i forgot about that scene it's like it's not your fault when it is 100 his fault he literally smothered her with like so yeah it's just I think I mean I could go on about this for another like three hours but I think my bottom line is just hold your friends accountable believe women when they tell you that something happened listen to women's experiences and don't think that we're attacking you by saying that we want you to support us we know that every single woman I can

confidently say has known a man or two that they can trust they're not saying that it's your fault that they feel unsafe but it should be your responsibility just like it's our responsibility to keep ourselves safe yeah it's everyone's responsibility to look out for each other yep this isn't like this is uh not i i don't want to say like it's a gender specific issue but women are assaulted way more but in general it is like a perfect example of how male privilege can go a long way for good yeah um but I do also want to tell the story of when I was drugged because I know I've mentioned it on a few occasions and I think it's important to talk about because there are also a few other things I wanted to mention about these stories as well so um I was drugged

in college and I, uh, was at a bar, um, like one of the bars I had gone to every other fucking Thursday. And, um, there was a guy I had seen, like, I don't know, sometimes he would come to like the, um, sports bar that I was a cocktail waitress at. And, um, I like thought he was a little weird like he was cute but something about him like made me uncomfortable does that make sense yeah and I just like didn't ever I don't know I just do my job mind my own business and then um I ran into him at one of the bars and then I was like uh I was just like oh hey how are you blah blah blah and then he's like oh I recently like won a lot of money gambling and I was like oh that's cool and he was like can I buy you a drink and drinks were a dollar so I was like sure

you can buy my dollar drink I was like okay and then um he ordered it for me and I don't remember him like he handed it to me so I didn't like watch him I was just like yeah I'll have my vodka a cranberry and um when i remember consciously thinking halfway through this drink that i was like i have no idea what the fuck this guy is saying to me right now that was what my inner monologue was saying and then um i my friend reminded me like the next day after that drink i ordered another drink and i could not sign my own name and i made them sign for me it was like a couple of girls who were like younger than me in my sorority and they were like okay they signed up for me and then um I went up to a guy who I didn't know super well I think

like he was friends with my friends like he was older than me I had seen him around a little bit like and I think he was just like trying to have a conversation with me and then I told him I don't remember this he told me this like a few days later I guess I had went up to him and I was like um please don't leave me alone with this guy which was the guy who was buying my drinks and so he stayed he like stayed around and stayed with me the rest of the night and that the guy who bought my drinks was threatening him and he was like get the fuck away from her and then I was like what else happened and he was like he was really grabby with you and like yanking you around and like grabbing your thighs i don't remember any of this what the fuck and how many drinks

have you had at that point um four that's my and my tolerance in college was obscene i mean even when my tolerance was low i wouldn't black out on no four drinks especially not even now i would not drink black out on four drinks right and um i like i think he went to the bathroom and I got away I don't know I made it home and um one of my friends like stayed with me in the bathroom all night while I was just like throwing up and I felt sick for like three days um I don't know what drug he used but um I do know another one of my friends had told me a story of when she was drugged she was like a whole bunch of us were drugged like and she was like I only had one drink and I like could not I couldn't even get myself home and um they went to like a

hospital the next day and uh they were like you were most likely drugged and she was like okay test us for the top five and someone had slipped them Ambien what the so Ambien is like a lot of these things are over-the-counter like drugs that make you drowsy that they can just put in your drink Ambien and alcohol can kill you you can't you're not supposed to drink on Ambien oh that's um so yeah i was drugged by someone i knew and that happens pretty often and um afterwards i remember oh yes please amelia's pouring me a little bit more wine to drink for this conversation yeah um i remember afterwards uh this girl who was friends with him was like questioning my credibility because I was like I told her roommate I don't like this girl but I was like I just

because I don't like her doesn't mean I think she deserves to be assaulted and raped so I told her roommate who I was friends with like just so you know that guy like drugged me and like here's what happened and she I was like just tell her to be careful or not hang out with him yeah and then um she like was like well it wasn't that bad because she wasn't raped and i was like um that does not change his intention no because he was trying to he was grabbing you and trying to get that guy away from you in public and this is why sorry i don't want to interject this is why in um promising young woman allison brie's character was so important because there you would hope that other women would women would believe you until it happens to them they don't believe you yeah

it's it's so fucked up um so and i had posted something about my experience on facebook and i was like this happened to me and it was someone that i knew like that i like he was an acquaintance and i still see him when i'm out so like if this happened to me it can happen to anybody and um someone else shared a story with me that uh he was with one of his friends just like a friend who was a girl and uh someone drugged him as well to get him to like not be able to defend her or take care of her what the fuck yes so that's a common thing is like an aggressor will they'll drug like if you're with like your guy friend or something they'll drug your male friend as well that's so fucked up and he's like we're okay but like that doesn't change the fact that

it happened right right and I had so a few years later um I went to a bar with one of my friends and uh or we went to a club and we were meeting up with a couple of other girlfriends from our college and um we were put at like a table it's called a promoter table so a promoter will gather a group of people it's usually like a group of men and then like hot girls and then the men buy the bottles for the table and um none of them know each other but like we didn't know we were getting hustled over to like a promoter table because usually they'll have like groups of girls in like rooms and it's just like random girls and they give them drinks for free spooky um so I was like oh we're probably like going to like a girls promoter table but no it's like

this group of guys and um my I only had like one or two drinks and my friend only had one drink because she was I think she was gonna drive home and she could not walk and so I like uh she like started to like hobble off to the bathroom like could not stand and was like grabbing onto like um one of those security like pole things and I was like what is she doing uh and I like went after her because she's like don't tell her I'm going to the bathroom I want her to still have a good night she told that to one of the guys at the table and I was like um it's not a good night if you're not here so I like went after her and I was like are you okay and then i was like i think you were drugged and she was like what and i was like how many drinks did you

have and she's like one and i was like yeah girl you've been drugged so um i took her to the bathroom and everyone in the vegas bars uh this was at marquee nightclub and everyone there was so fucking rude to us like the i mean the poor bathroom attendants they like knew she was like puking but they didn't know she was drugged and um they're like we're really sorry but you like have to get out of the bathroom and I was like that's fine I'm trying to get her home but she can't stop vomiting and she was like falling asleep I don't know so um like the bouncers were rude as hell they thought I was just like with my drunk friend and I'm like no she's definitely drugged and then they were like they didn't believe us and um they just there i one guy was

like do you need help and i was like yes can you help me carry her like and one of my friends this is so funny her uh now husband he was an emt and he was stationed there and she was like why didn't you do anything he's like i didn't know that they were there and then he's like what could i have done and she's like you could have helped them like walk down the stairs oh my god he's like I would have if I know she's so funny and I don't know so eventually we were able to get her home but I had to call her boyfriend at the time too and be like so she was drugged she's home safe and I told her sister it was it was a mess um she got home safe but I also wouldn't have known what to look for if it hadn't happened to me yeah um right but I mean it's it can happen so quickly

you it's odorless it's colorless it happens it doesn't taste like anything doesn't taste like anything especially when it's masked by like alcohol and like cranberry juice you're not gonna taste that and when there's a lot of hustle and bustle in a club too it's so easy there's this somebody on tiktok that um was showing how easy it is to slip drugs into people's drinks yeah and it was it was a woman showing it and I really want to I want to post the video if I find it on our Instagram but she would just like really swiftly just like reach over the drink and it would drop in and like these people are really really good at it they're really practiced and bars and clubs need to be more attuned to this happening because it's so common and there

was some of the bars in Vegas put like MDMA and drinks I was just about to say that there was a bar that's in Seattle that just shut down because the they found out that the bartenders were drugging girls the bartenders the people that you should the only people really in the bar you should be trusting with your drinks besides your friends this foundation nightclub they found woman drug assaulted in seattle's foundation nightclub ecstasy cocaine and ghb known as the date rape drug were all being sold at foundation nightclub and and the bartenders were slipping it into their drinks they also seized two guns sixty thousand dollars in cash and more than three thousand combined pills of mdma ecstasy molly and xanax plus nearly two pounds of cocaine and these like i said these

are the people that you should be able to trust with your drinks and like being that desperate for sex is insane to me just go masturbate yeah or like be a decent person and like you will get sex like i i don't have enough sleep i don't have enough faith in humanity to be like just be a decent person but you can be gross and creepy just leave other people alone yeah god it's just it's it's really sad i'm reading this article it says um one undercover officer had a drug dealer at the club brag to him about knowing the owner and later explained how much ghb to use on women depending on their weight we continue to investigate we found out that these dealers were being ushered through security some of them were security and management knew all about it

and we're just allowing this to happen inside their club and that's just one that got seized like we don't yeah this is just one that got caught and this happens all the fucking time and you were saying i was just about to say this obviously yeah it's so fucked up and it's like it just always having to be on there there there are these like rings that women can buy to like dip their finger in their drinks to see if there's date rape drugs in it i think there's nail polish too nail polish also and like but i don't know which ones it tests for you know right because some of them are some of them are illegal i didn't know that people use ambien i am there was one night it was one of the first nights that i was out when i was single and i'm a cheap date but

like I got so fucked up and I do not know how I don't remember getting home and I was making out with this one guy all night who was just like a really slimy shitty person like him and I kind of stayed in touch because I didn't remember him being slimy and shitty but I always wonder if I was drugged because I was so I was completely blacked out I don't black out the only time I ever blacked out was in Mexico my summer before college I don't black out and I don't remember i'm sure when you blacked out in mexico too you were like i did this to myself oh yeah that happens some something about drinking on a boat in the tropical weather makes you just want to drink by the water whenever i'd ask for water they'd say

mexican water and then they would give me tequila but anyway shake you upside down uh-huh yep yep god such a good time but no I I always wonder because I was just like I the people that you think that you can trust or you're having a good time with you actually don't know them until you know them and like it can and maybe it wasn't this slimy shitty guy maybe it was the bartender there's no way to know there's you can't trust anybody and it's just the fact that we have to do things like create nail polish and rings that can test for drugs and drinks is a band-aid and it's something we have to do but it's fucked up that we do i think that uh we need to band together as women to just bring flasks with us i actually

have been thinking a lot about doing that like bring a flask it's cheaper it's safer they have um uh whatever i think it's called like a like bar boobs and you can fill up your bra with it's like a camelback but it's a bra nice yeah i want to buy some of them well you can't pat me down there no and you know what uh i'm sure for a while we'll all be wearing masks at like raves and whatnot oh so just you know i'm putting cocaine in my mask i'm just kidding uh indeed that's funny no but yeah i think that there's going to be ways that we can all sneak our drugs in because or not our drugs well I'm in I'm in music festival mindset I should sneak our drinks in because I this all came out like right before year was this well I guess this

happened in August of 2018 but like I after reading this it is pretty recent and the world shut down like you know a year and a half later but it's I mean I'm sure that since this came out they've gotten better at hiding it I don't think this shit changes I don't think that one club being caught for doing this is going to change like the foundation of this foundation of this culture no it's fucked not at all and that's why it is called rape culture because there is there are things that surround this behavior that contribute to um us like not normalizing it but like becoming blind to it uh it doesn't start with just something as wild as um you know being blatantly drugged yeah and taken advantage of it it starts with

something smaller before that yep it's kind of like a serial killer like they don't just become a serial killer they probably did something worse before yeah i mean it's kind of like a gateway drug it's like you get away with groping a girl in a bar at a crowded bar then you're going to keep up in the stakes nobody goes right to i mean maybe some people do i don't think a lot of like everybody goes right to rape i have actually a really insane story to tell you about someone one of my male friends um told me about a guy he knew in college who like treated him like he was taking my friend under his wing but uh he's actually an absolute creep i was like do you think that he could murder someone and my friend was like honestly i would not be surprised if he

it but he told my friend um stuff like uh if he wanted to get a girl drunk to get like um one of the drinks from like a drive-thru that had the really wide straws i think mcdonald's because they'll drink more faster so they'll get drunk faster um and he said a bunch of other creepy shit i mean fuck yeah i'm gonna have to ask him what else like what other kinds of things he he taught quote unquote taught him um but like there the point is is like there's just men like that that exist that are creepy and intentionally preying on women yeah yeah and i mean like if you have male friends that are saying shit like that this just goes right back to like fucking call them out that's fucked that is objectively fucked up like if you are keeping friends i'm not saying

that your friend was keeping this friend because clearly he recognized that this was a bad person but if you are if you have friends that are very obviously problematic they you shouldn't want them to be your friend no period like you shouldn't want to keep you are the friends that you keep period and like if you don't want to be associated with something that's so ugly then you need to either set them straight if you love them or just cut them loose if you if you can live without him period i don't know dude also if like every single one of your girlfriends tells you that one of your male friends makes them uncomfortable yeah you need to stop being friends with that guy yeah i i don't know like because i'm thinking of

an experience that amelia and i both had where this guy made us uncomfortable and um he made uncomfortable it's when i was i was like new to being friends with amelia so i wasn't comfortable saying something like i don't like this guy um but the more i got close to like these girls this group of girls every single one of them was like hey what do you think about that guy and i was like honestly i do not like him and they were like fucking hate that guy and i was like how are we all on the same page and how the fuck is this guy still around that was another perfect example of manipulation oh yeah practiced he was a very practiced manipulator but I felt like I had an advantage being new because I was like uh I don't like you and I get the option to

not be around you he used to message me my first couple of weeks at work he would message me on skype and be like you just walked by my desk you look really hot like yeah yeah like i really like those pants did it and he would say stuff like what's your favorite part of your body and i would just be like oh my lips because i hit feet yeah my nose i don't know what's something not sexy um my feet my dirty stinky asshole my poopy butthole i never wipe do you like that you like that you like skid marks daddy someone does i hate it i hate it i feel icky um changed my diaper papa

god i wish i wish i did oh my god i'm sure looking back at it now when you have zero of fucks you would have oh fuck but he I was new there and just like how I was saying last week about the higher up at the company like these people know that like they're they're working with people they're dealing with people that are afraid to come forward anyway all this to say I ended up going to HR about it I don't know if I've told you about this okay so I ended up going to HR about this because I was like I came from a place that was extremely toxic to the point that I thought that this was a test like I thought that they were yeah that's how bad my old workplace was oh my god I know so I went to HR and HR was like it wasn't a test this guy is just really terrible

yeah he's actually just a predator low-key high-key so I went to HR and HR was basically like have you told him to stop yeah dude are you and my boss at the time who's long long gone from the company but she was she said the same thing she's like have you asked him to stop I'm like no I'm scared of him what do you mean my safety and the future of my career and my happiness at work shouldn't depend on me telling a predator to stop please stop yeah that's your job and you shouldn't have hired him in the first place i was appalled i was like what the fuck do you mean did i ask him to stop that's not i shouldn't be put in the position to deal with people like this anyway I never told him to stop because if you know this guy he's kind of a force he has a

presence that is a little um sort of I almost called him a like brick wall but that's too close to brick house and we like brick houses we love brick houses he is he is very um he's hard to topple because he will have an excuse for everything if you ask him to stop he's like oh i didn't mean it like that you took it the wrong way oh he's perfect at the darvo yep manipulation tactic darvo i've noticed the something common with like men like that is they're very good with their words so they confuse you uh-huh and then you walk away feeling like a jackass yep like you want to confront them about something and then you're like hey does hurt my feelings what are you doing yeah and then they confuse you by like making like flipping away

flipping around the conversation and directing it back at you yeah but they do it so smoothly that you're like wait I I guess I'm sorry yes and that's the thing my ex was a master at that but that's the whole thing with like HR too being like did you ask him to stop because these people will use it like well she never asked me to stop you shouldn't have done it in the first like this is obviously probably you're not an idiot this is problematic it's like okay now i ask you to stop and you're an asshole to me and then i can't be friends with anybody else at work because you have control of the circumstance yeah and honestly i i'm sorry if you are listening and you work in hr but like hr is there to protect the company they don't give a fuck about you

fuck about you no and that makes me really sad to say that my last job didn't even have an HR department holy shit there are there are a couple of people it was toxic there's yeah I mean fuck I don't even know who worked in HR at the company that I was at before our company because they didn't give a single fuck and I don't know who works in HR at the company that we're at now that we're bigger but there are people in HR at our company our smaller company before we got acquired that were good people and I trusted um but I didn't know that at the time and like in the times that I needed that protection there was nobody there for me and and it's it's that feels dramatic to say because I wasn't no I wasn't in danger with this guy but I didn't know that at

the time you maybe you weren't in like immediate like physical danger but your well-being was in danger yes and that's enough like your emotional stability and like the fact that you felt uncomfortable enough to go to hr yes speaks volumes yes and like you shouldn't be questioned in that way that's entirely inappropriate yep for them to be like oh you're being sexually harassed did you ask him to stop yeah uh i don't know can i do that at work yeah maybe you shouldn't employ someone who sexually harasses multiple women yes and we're so used to it being turned on us that like we it's our responsibility to fix a problem and it turns into a victim blaming situation like well you didn't ask him to stop it's like well what's the likelihood that you would falsely say

something like that all that matters is that you were uncomfortable that is the most important thing yeah like i don't know it's so fucked up that's that's the furthest i'll go about that me too god it makes me mad um was there anything else we need to talk about we've been talking for an hour and a half no i think that's it yeah it feels weird to wrap this up because i feel like this is like a never-ending conversation well and i mean it is a never-ending conversation so i think that the future episodes that we record we're going to continue having these kinds of conversations especially because yes I don't think either of us doubt that we're gonna have plenty of you sharing your stories with us yeah and we love that and we respect that and

we love you and know that if you come to us about anything like there's been a lot of instances where people have come to Liz and I individually and I don't know who's come forward to Liz Liz doesn't know who's come forward to me like we're we we keep this stuff secret like you don't need to be concerned about your identity being like given to even either one of us let alone publicly so if you feel like you want to share something but you're concerned about your privacy know that you can trust us um if we haven't exposed the shithead men that have done terrible things to us we will absolutely protect that's such a good point but we would love to hear from you we want to we've said this a million times we want to make this podcast as inclusive as possible

um again everything that we've talked about is what we've experienced we know that there have been experiences that we haven't touched on and like i said it feels weird wrapping this up because there are so many things that we need to talk about we agreed that this was just going to be a two-part series but again we want to keep talking about this on future episodes so if you want to if you want to hear anything from us or if you have any thoughts about any of this please email us or slide into our dms anything yeah we want to continue the conversation yeah we know it doesn't end here it doesn't end in a two-part series podcast my god imagine if we just had our two-part series and that ended all sexual harassment and assault

god if it was that easy wouldn't that be nice yeah a perfect world yeah all we all we can do is continue facilitating conversations and talking about it yep so thank you so much for listening and um next week we are going to have our first guest and uh we're going to be talking about attachment styles i'm so excited and the book attached which i will try and get an audiobook version and listen to before we record but i'm gonna do what i did in college and read a spark notes version we're gonna do some spark note versions of uh the book attached but um if you guys want to learn more about attachment issues and our friend that will be our guest is very entertaining so it's going to be a blast and it's going to be a nice little change of pace from

these last two heavy episodes and the previous two where you uh had to listen to my voice that was so good no i'm not just saying you did such a good job i was like it's not the same without you well good i'm like she's gonna just i'll never do this by myself that makes me happy because you could very easily do it by yourself oh god no anyway we love you we're not going to sing again no it's next week we'll sing we'll sing extra next week just to make up for last time but um we love you and thanks for listening