The Hoely Hour - E46 Cheating! The Musical

Episode Date: July 2, 2021

It's time we finally talk about cheaters, and not the bad daytime television show. Amelia and Liz open up about their first-hand experiences with cheating and read listener DMs about being cheated on and even being the cheater. Do you think cheating is black and white? What do you even consider cheating? Plus some cheater-cheater-pumpkin-eater statistics that were surprising! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Holy Hour. I'm Amelia Sampson. And I'm Liz Ball. and uh today we're recording in my bedroom and it looks like we're filming a weird porno we're on the bed but it's light setup it's because amelia said this right before we record our intro it's the hottest day of the year in seattle and i have an ac unit in my bedroom and it has been on full blast all day and i have a nice quiet silent fan that is blowing now i'm incredibly impressed by the temperature in this room it feels nice it does we have air conditioning

at my house and this room is colder than the rest of my house i'm a i'm a brat though needs to be freezing i have to sleep in in cold somebody sent me one of those dyson fans that we were talking about on a previous episode which is so fucking nice yeah this man is just he's so nice i don't want to say his name just in case he doesn't want me to but he listens to the podcast and it has saved my ass because my air conditioning is broken in my room just my room so just your room wait that one also hasn't been repaired i don't we don't know what's wrong like the whole top floor of the house is hot because it's the top floor but my room is like a sauna and we don't know why the vent isn't blocked so i have the dyson thank god that thing's amazing i can control it from my

phone not right now because the wi-fi is out of my house because comcast can't handle the heat you're just you your home's having a rough go it's having a rough i'm having a rough month i don't do well in the heat it is it has been a rough month i will i'll agree with you i've had a lot of uh weird mishaps like we had a camera mishap like um i i have like a dslr from college and like i bought this fancy like plug-in battery that you plug into the wall and then i was like set it all up and the moment came where i turned on my camera and nothing happened and i was like god fucking damn it that's what always just like every week there's a new thing but mercury is no longer in retrograde yeah we're still no but we're still in the shadow afterwards

and sometimes i feel like the shadow is worse the worst mercury retrograde i ever had is like the first time i like really traveled internationally by myself and like i just like was losing keys and getting locked out of my hotel room because like my battery was dying yeah i was in thailand trip that was it was a blast but also like weird stuff was happening to me and then my roommate through the trip she was i was like stuff like this does not usually happen to me and she's like i don't believe you i think that you're bad luck oh man oh yeah that was we had the murphy's law conversation and that was your murphy's law trip yeah yeah and maybe it was just a mercury retrograde classic trip because much worse things could have happened to you on

that trip and it didn't happen my other shitty mercury retrograde experience was when i was moving when i moved here oh my god and i had the terrible movers that was kind of scary it was really scary actually what was that guy's name chad it was literally fucking chad um but i did want to mention to you um we got a ton of like dms and emails from people about the listener who wrote in about like the guys that she's been seeing who like doesn't want her to reciprocate like any sexual favors or like get him off and so I asked my boyfriend too I was like hey what do you think like while I was editing I was like with him and I was like hey what do you think about this like what would you guess because we did our speculating but then we're also like have no idea

yeah and he was like I would guess like it would be because like he um can only get himself off like that would be his first guess so it's just like he you know you don't want to like have your partner like try and get you off when you know they're not going to be able to if you can only get yourself off and then a ton of other people said like you can dry orgasm which we knew from uh kinky katie but that didn't sound like the situation here like no there's it doesn't seem like there's anything really physical involved on her end but i think uh a lot of people mentioned like could be trauma related so which was one of the things that we said yeah and then some people also mentioned that um like it like just getting her off could be like more than

enough for him like he just that's just all he wants to do which makes have like a pleasure kink or whatever right it could be really anything yeah going back to what your boyfriend said about only knowing that like he can get himself off would be the potential of what's going on in your experience how like ratio wise i don't really know how to ask this okay i'll talk from my own experience and then i'll ask you the question i can make myself come during sex much quicker when i'm doing like this like clitoral stimulation than if he's doing it do you experience the same thing yeah and that has to be because we masturbate so we like know what works just know like your own way around your body and i've hooked up with some guys that

like i'll start kind of just like taking charge in that arena and they seem like a little like intimidated yeah like offended that like and it's like not like that at all no you know so i don't know it's just i think that that's something that people don't really talk about often because nobody wants like that's a good point well yeah because i don't take it personally it's just like no it's hard like to do for like i would imagine it would be hard for your partner to do all of the stimulation if that makes sense yeah like like it's a lot of work yeah vaginally and clitorally like in the air yeah and they can't sense where like something is on you especially like if it like you're using a vibrator or something on your clit like you know exactly

where it is and like you need to like move something just a little bit for it to work yeah yes it's like like a quarter of a centimeter makes a difference yeah it really does and it's like such a joke it's like men can't find i don't want you to stop what you're doing and i don't want to like i'm just gonna take charge because i'm already almost there yeah right and then when you start to get in your head about like oh this i know that this isn't gonna work oh no now it's taking a while it starts to then you get in your head and it's like i'm not gonna be able to come it's all a mind game a lot of how people with vaginas come it's all not all a lot of it is mental yeah you have to like be in a right yeah you have to be in the right you can't like get

in your head about it it sucks how much of it is like self-consciousness yeah like oh god do i look weird or like do i have like a stupid orgasm face yes oh my god or like do i if they're going down on you like do i smell bad it's all you have to be in the right head space like oh fuck i've been sweating all fucking day yeah oh i you know what okay this i have two things to say and one is a shorter statement a lot of guys experience that a lot of people with penises experience that too a few of the guys that i've hooked up with in the past like six months can't stay hard and they'll be like it's nothing about you like you're really hot it's not you i'm like i know like i understand and I understand also like the shame that comes with not being able to stay hard because sometimes

I can't I dry up and then it's the same kind of experience of like I am having a good time it's just it just happens and so much of it is mental and that's another thing I think people have a hard time talking about I think people like feel like they're you know like not hot enough or like not turning the other person on enough when a lot of it is just like somebody gets in their head and then it's game over from there if they're thinking too hard about it yep totally been there um and i've had like i've hooked up with partners who have been there too yeah i'm like we can stop it's not a big deal yeah yeah don't get too in your head about it i'll always say like nope just let's just hang out you know if like the moment arises again

so to speak then we'll just do it then but i like you specifically yep and the sex stuff is just like a perk you know uh-huh exactly exactly we can revisit it's not a big deal so many people somebody asked um i got served an ad today about it was um created by an ob-gyn for like a it's like a vagina deodorant yeah but it's like not the vagina that smells bad it's bacteria from the butt what yeah yeah there's some science that the bacteria from your anus makes your vagina smell away and so this doctor created this deodorant she has a line for armpit deodorant and then she has like a topical cream for everywhere everywhere else um and it helps and people swear by this shit i was gonna order some just for science yeah interesting i know so that's a fun fact

it's not your vagina that's not yours i'm looking at you when i say don't worry it's not your vagina of that smell no but it's that's apparently vaginas don't have a natural odor it's from your butthole says a gyno wash wash your so wash your ass friends um i have a new bay every week are you ready to another one last statement we have a lot to talk about today we do okay i'll jump into this it's a short story okay i was listening to music the other day and this song came on my discover weekly and it was this beautiful man's voice and the song is about coming together like orgasming at the same time but it's like disguised you don't really know

that that's about unless you like really listen to it and it's so fucking good and his voice is just beautiful do you know who um alan raymond is no okay anyway it's like very like deep and like raspy it's exactly yeah that's him you've heard of him no so i posted the song on my story and like quoted a part of it and the singer of the song messaged me back and he was like he was like that's my favorite line from the song blah blah blah he's like and he was like i'm trying to walk the line between like explicit and like art you know as we all are and he followed me back he only follows like 250 people i was like so i like slid on in and we were just like chatting and like he lost his job during covid and he like decided to lean into music

full-time blah blah blah i was like well if you don't come to seattle when you tour i will fully riot and he was like well i will do my due diligence to save the city of seattle and i was like well i like to be prepared so here's my number not thinking that he would text me at all he texted me like two minutes later this sounds like charles banson but um we've just deep sigh into the microphone we love a sex positive bae we'll see he looks just like my ex i have to show you oh you're stressing me out i know i'm stressing myself stressing the audience out i'm honestly i'm at a point in my life where like i'm starting to look for danger again no why it's been too it's been too simple and normal oh god wait he looks just like my ex give me your phone where's his

instagram i don't trust it are you getting a vibe he's like just now blowing up you're just i just i'm just anxious i have a problem yeah i i need if you staged an intervention i wouldn't be surprised i come over next time like all of our friends are here i just i just and you know no offense if you are listening to this because you're in love with amelia but like i just don't trust the guys that you are talking to that have like large followings i know me i just like do i have no reason to trust them neither i only trust one oh the one you met yeah who listens and he'd be very happy to hear that he's the only one i trust he's oh oh look who's in here well happy to have you gramps are we yeah well he is he's like help how did i get in here anyway we're

gonna have to give him a name we're gonna i'm gonna call him turtle um anyway so that's uh i just had to throw that name in the ring because we don't know where it's gonna go maybe i'll fly to california and um i have a new bay it's it's pretty exciting i'm still seeing squints though squints is currently hanging out with my parents while we're recording yeah i really like him too all my friends do he's a good egg i met his sister and his sister's girlfriend my mom was like so amelia is dating a boy she met online i was like she's dating a lot of boys yeah which one you're gonna have to specify and she's like oh okay i understand and like this is what dating is you gotta date around uh-huh play the field i'm really only

seeing him though i mean it's like the first time i'm like really only talking to one person it's weird but it's not intentional we're not exclusive it's just the chips kind of fell that way you know i mean are you talking to only him because it am i i guess emotionally i'm only talking to him you know what i mean yeah like he's that's your aquarius moon talking because for me i'm like tell me more well aquarius moon it just seems like you're so good at compartmentalizing your feelings i could never i can't do it it's too much it's too hard it's a new thing for me i feel like i've kind of come into my aquarius moon then because before it was like if i liked somebody it was like all balls to the wall i'm going to marry this person and nobody else i see

nobody else and now i'm like maybe it's just because you're older than 25 now yeah that could be it i'm i'm grown i've aged out of my um attachment wounds maybe maybe i'm just so developing new ones i just can't attach to anything now that's sad i've like made like a full rotation around my attachment wounds i kind of feel good about that feels safe sometimes i cry we sometimes we all cry sometimes i run have to sometimes i hide sometimes i close my eyes sometimes i'm scared of you big week she did we don't have time sadly we don't we don't know we have a lot to talk about today we will circle back to queen britney spears next week i'm sure more will happen her second hearing is july 15th oh wow we have more to talk you're keeping us on

track let's dive in this is our cheating episode so more than one we yeah we'll probably end up having more than one definitely uh but i think it's about time we finally cover the topic of cheating we're like almost 50 episodes in holy shit we are this is never like fully divulged i think it's gonna be like 47 or 48 wild i don't even know now i have to do for 50 we have to talk about that but we really should i've been wanting to talk about cheating cheating is one of those topics that i've been afraid to dive into because there is so much to talk about that it's like when are we ever going to have the time i'm sure when we talk about this we're going to get a lot of people writing in with their experiences that maybe don't follow us on instagram because that's

where we ask the question about people that have experienced cheating i feel like more people than not unfortunately have had an experience with cheating yeah have you been cheated on i actually don't know um i don't know if i have been cheated on does that make sense and i'll be able to explain this more later but like shoe man I asked him after we broke up if he ever cheated on me because I was constantly suspicious and he was like no you are the only person I haven't cheated on but I would be stupid to think that were true that is that sounds like something a cheater would say yeah and he traveled for work a lot so I would be stupid to think like I'm assuming he would probably he probably had like a one night stand he's probably saying that to his wife too

fucking hate that guy i feel like i don't like him more than you don't like him and that's unhealthy on my it is nice though i understand it's nice that you're when you have like friends and family who are like thank fucking god you are not dating this person anymore because i'm ready to murder them for you yeah it's really good he doesn't live here but i think i have collected several cheating stories for us to read but you have a cheat you have a cheating story i have yeah i mean we told it last episode kind of when i was on the other end of it i was the mistress i've been the mistress a few times a few times unknowingly i would never ever knowingly be that person because i've been cheated on so many times but there has been an instance um there

was a past episode early early number that i talked about the guy in a short film that i was in yeah he was cheating on his wife with me and told me that they were in an open relationship but he he said that after we hooked up he said that they were getting a divorce and then afterward he said that they were in an open relationship that should have shown me everything that i needed to know that sucks being cheated on so many times and then being the other woman in a situation yeah i've been cheated on in like 75 of the relationships that i've been in um and that fucked me up for a really long time now i'm able to recognize that it doesn't have anything to do with me even though i'm the common denominator in all of those being going through therapy

showed me that there's not anything that i'm doing other than giving people trust and a lot of the people that i dated a lot of the guys were just young and immature and they were not at a point in their lives where they were ready to commit to one person and that's okay but just recognize that this is my whole thing with cheating like nobody is making you be in a relationship if you don't if you don't want to commit to one person you don't have to just don't and it's so selfish to like keep them around it's a hundred percent oh i i still love them and i like mostly want to be with them if they're not agreeing to not be monogamous then like that's that's the only conversation you need you need to have yeah like yeah they need to be aware

and have the choice yes exactly it's just selfish at that point if you're like well i still love them so like i i do want to be them with them but i also want to be with other people yeah and they don't and then you don't want the you don't want them to hook up with anyone it's really truly a selfish thing fully and now i'm realizing and it's stupid to think that like okay so if you can have no feelings involved and uh hook up with other people they probably can too so it's really stupid and selfish of you to think that like oh you want to be non-monogamous but like you don't want them to be i don't know whatever it's insanely selfish it i am realizing too how i'm commenting that a big thing that was difficult for me to separate myself from my ex was that he put me on such a

pedestal that I felt comfortable that he wasn't gonna cheat again and I was like but like we got there and like now I don't have to worry about him ever cheating again like that was how I was thinking about it and now I'm starting to seek that out and people that I'm dating like I want to be worshipped and like put on a pedestal even though that makes me very uncomfortable there's like a subconscious piece of me that's like I have to be sure that they love me like like a toxic amount so that they don't cheat on me it's all subconscious and it's not something I'm seeking out but like squints is a good example he is so he's he's like a golden retriever I say this like all the time he's so loyal and like he's like a one gal kind of guy and there's a piece of me

that's like oh like that's really that's like a draw you know like I want to keep that around because it feels safe to have that around and I've had to separate myself from that and look at other things about him that i adore because he's so great and realize that there are things about him that i like that aren't that because that was a big thing that i was clinging on to like well i don't have to worry about him ever cheating on me which is like all of my old past trauma coming up and i don't think that when people cheat they think about the repercussions that it's going to have on the people that they cheat on that shit sticks with you for so fucking long because you have no reason to believe that they won't it's hard to once you get cheated on

so many times it's hard to imagine somebody you're just like immediately like yeah suspect of like any other you're on the defense person all the time exactly and I had to spend a lot of time alone to separate myself from that way of thinking because really anytime any of my friends got into relationships when I got out of my relationship in college like when we were on a break all my friends that were in relationships my first thought was like I mean he's cheating on you like that was like my first thought and i had no reason to think that outside of me just having that was your experience i had no reason to believe that somebody wasn't cheating on somebody that shit fucking blows it's the most selfish thing you can do will you go into more detail

about like your really terrible ex the bit everyone has like the big acts and i feel like that's probably the one that affected you the most yeah i mean like it was kind of like a it like i feel like i like got had all of these small experiences that led into the big x you know like my first boyfriend ever he was long distance like he his dad lived in washington his mom lived in utah so we were in a relationship he was like i'm mormon it's okay yeah exactly exactly you should not be dating me they all have several wives yep but he was like a bad mormon that was like his whole thing he's like i'm not mormon i'm just my family is i'm not like most mormons i'm not like i'm a bad mormon i'm a cool mormon i cheat

on my girlfriends oh my god he so he no he had a girlfriend every time he went back to utah he would have a girlfriend and like i was too i was what 14 15 when we were dating so that wasn't i was young but that was my first experience so i just always assumed i just always dating after him i was like anytime anybody leaves i'm assuming that they're cheating on me and that's disgusting and then um and those feelings feel so real when you're that age too yeah like it feels like the end of the world yeah people are like oh you're young it doesn't matter and i'm like um that is when i felt things the hardest and the most oh my god olivia rodrigo perfect example that girl can i saw a tiktok of this girl who's like um how embarrassing for that guy's mom there's like

17 year old girls writing about your son you should like doing a job you should have done yeah that's so fucking real how embarrassing your son's acting like a fucking dumbass and this girl wrote a whole album about it uh-huh anyways yeah i know that's some shame shame on your family shame on your family name shame on your family um how did I get there oh so okay after that I was dating a guy in college he was like the first guy that I was like seeing in college and I didn't want to be exclusive with him and he like really wanted to be exclusive so I was like okay I guess we're exclusive but I never called him my boyfriend I just like wasn't hooking up with other people so yes he wanted to be exclusive real bad and I was like okay fine I

guess so I wasn't hooking up with anyone else and we had mutual friends he didn't go to my school but he was up every single weekend and when you were in college yep it was yeah my freshman year what school was he at he was not in school he took gap two years gap year so we had mutual friends which is how I met him and I was talking to our friend and I mentioned something about how him and I are exclusive and our friend was like does he know that and I was yeah I was like it was his idea what do you mean and he's like every time he comes up he is he's like he's my dude but I feel like you should know because they were my friend too he was like every time he's up here he's bragging about hooking up with another girl like different girls all the time and I confronted

him about it and he admit he admitted everything he wasn't like no just he was like yeah he just like folded quick yeah part of me is like does he what if he was lying to like seem like a player to his friends oh and then he was back and it was it was more like he had so much pride he didn't want his friends to find out he was fucking lying about hooking up with all these girls he was like yep i'm ready to lose this relationship for this for the bros yeah for the boys the boys told you the boys yeah the boys are like we're selling this fucking ass allowed are you kidding his other friend i'm happy his friends told you me too me too yeah he's yeah the friend that told me is such a good dude he has a wife now they're all happy he so one of his other friends had a

crush on me and this guy what do i call him the waiter we're gonna call him the waiter the waiter not just waiter sounds like a fancy play the waiter sad he was a waiter at like a really fancy restaurant um the fancy waiter oh he's the fancy waiter okay so the so the fancy way i'm not gonna be able to say his name without laughing i like it the fancy waiter his friend who was also a mutual friend liked me and the fancy waiter showed me this conversation between the two of them where he was like yeah bro like if you like her like i'm not gonna lose our friendship over some chick he showed me this conversation and my dumb 18 year old ass wasn't like don't call me some chick what the fuck is that and i was very offended i was i was like

okay well i'm glad that you guys aren't losing your friendship over me i'm just some chick and i got it tattooed on my lower back some chick i don't have it i don't have a some chick tramp stamp just want to make that clear but yeah so that was and then right after that i started dating the big x and he pulled the whole like i need a break but we're not gonna hook up with other people and then he was hooking up with other people found out two years later through other people my roommates knew three months before i knew and they didn't tell me it was a fucking mess if the boys can tell you surely your roommates can tell you that fucking sucks we broke up the weekend after halloween senior year and i was crying

halloween dredges up some fucking ghosts and this is probably why i hate halloween so much probably that makes a lot of sense me as a child i'm sorry i forced you to dress up and celebrate you celebrate me redefined halloween for me and i'm forever grateful that is the best compliment i've ever received i mean it that means a lot to me it means a lot to me too that is gonna put on my grace changed halloween for amelia samson i want that to be the way the world remembers me halloween has been a point of contention in my life for forever i mean that makes sense and you changed it good so uh the weekend after i was crying and i was like i just want to be mad because it's so much easier to be mad than sad and my roommates all were like well we're

gonna let you cry and i guess they like left the room and discussed like be make sure why you're mad you need a good reason to be mad yeah let's how are we gonna break this to you i ended up blacking I had such a big panic attack I blacked out and ended up down the road they almost called the cops because they couldn't find me I didn't know where I was I just like kind of came to and I was like oh my god uh anyway so I have not had very many great relationship experiences more often than not I have been in a relationship that has ended in infidelity yeah so how did you confront your ex he came over so I found out about one of the girls and I texted him and I was like you've gotta and so he was on his way over and then my roommates told me about the other one

and like well she already knows about one so they didn't know that i knew about one so oh yeah so they were like i said i want to be mad instead of sad as i said that i was getting another text from someone like you should text this person and ask about him your boyfriend and her and i was like i don't know her you tell me and she told me that they had fucked at a party oh my god so then I got a party god damn it all of the two of them that I know about I mean there's probably more than two but the two that I know about were at a party so like you know and he used to have a lot of parties at his house in college it's kind of dirty yep well I have a fantasy but it's still dirty yeah it's like his house the house that they would party in any college boy's house I

don't need to hear about it i know you know exactly what it looks like yep that place was fucking gross so i know what it smells like i know what it looks like i don't need any more detail it's like oh my god yeah and they had a dude living in the basement yeah and the basement wasn't finished oh yeah uh it was just a very strange place and he would have sex with random girls in his house so i found out that he had been kissing random girls too from my roommates they didn't know about the sex but they heard that he had been kissing other girls so i saw mommy kissing santa claus liz i launched we just exchanged kisses it's just like it's just how people great in europe you wouldn't understand you're not sophisticated we just like touched

tongues intimately and gazed into each other's eyes it was not a big deal you know what if you're upset about that that's on you he's just kissing girls it's just a friendly way to greet a stranger just kissing on the mouth do you not do that to guys at parties you're allowed to oh my god i really can't so no i confronted him about it because he was on his way over so i found out about this shit in stages i found out about the girl that he fucked then the girls that he was kissing he came over and i we had like two stairs outside of the door um and he rang the doorbell i opened the door and pushed him down the stairs he caught himself god damn he deserves a concussion yes he does that would be that would have been his sixth

the sixth concussion is he like a cat he only has nine he's only allowed to have nine he had to stop playing contact sports better watch out buddy i'll give you your last four concussions just bonk every time he healed bonk bonk mess with the honk you get the bonk oh my god i can always count on you um i will physically and violently harm your exes i mean same with your exes and me uh for legal purposes though i won't actually do that she will uh so i ended up yelling at him for like two hours outside of my house my roommates were all like standing inside the garage i didn't know like listening um i would totally do that yeah i would too so then we were broken up and oh yeah you would and i would hope that you would at this

phase of my life if anybody ever cheats on me i you have permission to live tweet or break up okay period all right i'm never gonna date somebody that cheats on me again though i have it on film so i know well this is basically a contract okay cool so he ended up we broke up and then we went on christmas break and like three weeks later and he told me about another girl that he fucked he called me and he was like i have to tell you i have to get this off my chest wait so after wait you were together or no no we had broken up at that point but i was he was trying to like win me back he was like driving all the way from bellingham he was stayed in bellingham for winter break he drove from bellingham back to where i was living to like drop off like he made me like

a mixtape and shit to apologize and i was just like get the fuck out of my life and he was like since you already hate me i gotta tell you about this too you should have made a mixtape that was only one song and it was like it's too late to apologize for that fuck you fuck you very very who is that lily that's a great or something yeah yeah i know you're talking about anyway i all that to say and this is again why i didn't want to talk about this for so long because it was like i feel like i could take up a whole episode with my cheating experiences but i have a lot of experience with cheating i am a barbarian when it comes to my friends getting cheated on now because i know how much it hurts like there is no there's literally no excuse for cheating even if

it's an unhealthy relationship and you're fighting all the time break up yep don't fucking cheat and i know that it's hard to break up it is worse to try to i saw my ex i mean i feel a type of way about him now but i saw him try to become a better person to climb his way out of that and do a lot of work because the shame that comes with cheating is exhausting regardless our relationship was really shitty when he cheated on me it was very toxic not great and still he was like you didn't deserve that toxic about it these are all really good questions we were just always i was like really obsessed with him like he was my first love he was like my first like everything really and he was trying to pull away and be independent and have like a single because we

started dating freshman year so he was never really single in college and he was trying to he had a lot of pressure from his friends to experience being single I didn't have that for my friends were like if you're happy then we're gonna be with him but he was getting a lot of pressure to be single so and he didn't want to lose me so he was trying to do both of those things he wouldn't bring me around his friends ever so i was always freaking the fuck out about what he was doing what are you doing what yeah and i had been cheated on so much in the past that i was like you don't bring me around your friends you're fucking a friend so every time you had a pretty girlfriend i was like you're fucking like a hundred percent and he maybe he

was but there was a lot of that like mistrust out of the gate and we were just constantly fighting because he was pulling away which was making me push him more and so it was toxic and unhealthy and very it was a it was a young relationship and I was able to forgive him never forgot it but I was able to forgive him eventually because he worked really hard to get out of that but then that swung to the other side of the pendulum of me being like way too chill in the relationship because I didn't it's like he loved me enough for the both of us like he didn't really need me to give him any affection because he was trying so so hard so it was the cheating really was our demise four years down the line yeah and that's like what i i'm trying to get at with this

whole thing is like a momentary slip up is will be your demise really because like i've met couples that have been married for 40 years and still talking about oh yeah he like had sex with so and so 30 years ago nobody forgets it oh a momentary slip up you mean like cheating wise yeah cheating wise that sticks with you it's like glitter and yeah i mean you have to be fully aware of like the future consequences that is going to have if you choose to stay together we should dive in a little story yeah or two yes how many did we get how many did you copy i kept seeing so many i tried to like get the ones i thought were like maybe the most like funny I kept getting notifications and I was like oh Liz posted a question

I also was like asking people some follow-up questions oh wow uh will you read this one yeah okay well you want me to read it yeah so we're gonna read a little a little uh listener write in it says so Liz we want to say the question that you asked oh yeah so I asked on our instagram and my personal instagram if um anyone had any cheating stories like of being cheated on or being the one who chose to cheat or the other person involved just any anything around it so we got a lot some interesting uh dms from y'all this one made me laugh i haven't read any of these so this says oh girl not me but my friend found her ugly no job having fiance talking to women on tinder oh no he has no game but managed to tell one my mother would love you they're still

together and are getting married in september shut the fuck up yeah okay that's the i can't imagine anything worse than being cheated on and the person ending up with the person they cheated on you with that fucking blows i interpreted it no this couple is still together she caught her her fiance on tinder i thought that the fiance ended up with the tinder the tinder girl sounds like multiple no yeah no you're you're right they're still together oh he's not gonna stop yeah he's not gonna stop no he showed you who he was up front and he was like can i do this and then you were like yep there is so much climbing out of that hole that he has to do oh yeah well i mean she still agreed to marry him so what the fuck well there's still time to blow

there's still time to cancel the wedding there is still time to cancel the that there is time to cancel the wedding up until the day of the wedding it doesn't matter amen if people are like but i flew all the way out here it's like okay well that sucks you're here for me you get a little vacation yeah you know so sorry um but at the end of the day uh just not getting married is worth not having a divorce in the future in my opinion if somebody cheated on me i would probably just i don't mean this but it would feel really good to like leave them at the altar i mean weddings are expensive but it'd be so worth it for the bit it was a bit your honor

honestly it would be yep everyone on my side fully support you like it was worth making that decision hell yeah if if you just showing up if they're like does anyone object and then you fucking object to him and you're like I knew you were cheating on me that would be amazing I would watch that movie I would give everyone on my side a little glass of red wine and then

I'd just have everyone throw it on him on him yeah stay in the suit bitch you aren't getting married in this make him wear a white suit just be like I want us to both be wearing white and then they just fucking drench him

what if you also were like you knew you're gonna do that but then you also were like since i already know i'm gonna do this i'm gonna wear the ugliest fucking wedding dress with like puffy sleeves like an 80s wedding dress and then just be like you're gonna love it babe it's my like my favorite one it's so sexy i look like a goddess it's just like the ugliest dress i will be in the front row crying oh my god if anybody is with someone that they know is cheating on them and you're about to get married feel free to steal this bit well and this person who was telling us about her friend if you're at the wedding you should fully object but i do have to say if you object they're not allowed to

get married oh yeah they're like not actually it is awfully i think so if anyone objects you're like not allowed to continue fuck yeah the power of being a wedding guest does anyone object yeah i'd just be like let's see what fucking hat i object no reason i just want to see what happens good luck um i want to read another little funny one how many is how many pages do you have here um a couple of them are long oh i see i see i see so this one is short too um it says uh i was once at a wedding with my ex his sister's wedding and while he was looking at his phone i glanced over and noticed he was looking at craigslist casual encounters i wish i could say that was the end of our relationship for me but it took a lot more

bullshittery before my dumb ass moved the fuck off i can totally understand that though because my ass my like you know pre being cheated on ass would be like he probably just thinks that they're funny that's why he's on misconnections and not even casual encounters it's even worse that's that's like actual like i don't think they have those anymore casual encounters yeah i think that that people were using them for like um what's the word i'm looking for oh my god not not um a prostitute like escort people were using that using it for escorts people were using it for escorts for a while and i think that there was an issue with the law with that and that's probably why they got rid of them casual encounters are kind of casual encounters and missed connections are kind of

fun to read i loved reading the missed connections it was so funny someone wrote one about my brother oh really he ended up going on a date with her too and she was just like strange but yeah it's hilarious to read casual encounters a little different if my boyfriend was looking at casual encounters like what the fuck is this i mean it sounds like he was up to no good yeah i mean they clearly broke up bullshittery i love that i love that term bullshittery so good someone recommended that we start a little like um i saw that yeah we should call it the holy bible but it's just like our terminology and all of the players yeah yeah i love that idea so we can add bullshittery in the holy bible wait i actually i'm gonna start this tomorrow yes bullshittery is going in the

holy bible so one response that i got um i didn't catch someone cheating but i had a random girl add me on facebook and slide into my dms to tell me that my man was she provided screenshot evidence and get this i was out of the country on a girl's trip and then i asked her i followed up with more questions because you know me yeah i said how did you confront him and then she said i called his ass from germany and asked him if the name jane doe obviously not her real name ring a bell he casually said no why should i should it what a piece of shit i know and then i laid it all out on the table um that this gal reached out to me saying that he hooked up with her friend he ultimately confessed after i sent the screenshots but not after i had the chick

remove his name from her contacts to cross-reference the phone number to prove it was actually his number and i it turns out they were all co-workers and he made several advances towards all the young pretty girls despite also people knowing that i existed as his girlfriend he started crying that he was sorry and blah blah blah that it didn't mean anything he was weak and asked if i if he should have his bags packed by the time i returned yeah i said no i still needed a ride home from the airport the i broke up with him a few months later and kept both the apartment and the dog hell yeah two important things but um then i was like just out of curious just out of curiosity um did you decide to stay with him a little longer to try and make it work how did he act

after you got home that would destroy me yeah and then she said oh it certainly destroyed me too because then i was playing the where did i go wrong and what's wrong with me why am i not enough game with myself I think initially when I got back I was most I was mostly in shock so really it was I was in denial that I missed the signs and then it turned into mostly wanted wanting to stick around for answers he spent a lot of time apologizing and trying to make it up to me which I dismissed and then finally things fell stagnant he thought things were good and fine and I woke up one day and to be like where is this relationship going and i ended things because i knew i deserved better and he left caused a whole scene before he did it but needed to be done he was only holding

me back it's just like yeah we did get quite a hand like a few handful of stories that were like and i still fucking stayed with him for another like few months it's a comfort thing yeah because i i totally get that where you're like okay i need some answers before i'm like like you know at that point somewhere in the back of your mind it's done it's over you don't know when it'll be over but you need to get the rest of your investment out of this relationship and get some fucking answers and then when you leave they'll be surprised but in your head you've already made the decision yeah i that's just what i could uh assume yeah well it's like it took me therapy to realize that breaking up is the easy thing to do

because like really like it feels like just let's just like stay together and make it work but in the long run that's a lot more work oh yeah than trying to it's a big decision to make it work yeah and it really is the momentary discomfort of ending a relationship is so much easier than the discomfort of trying to make it work to gain back trust and I think that it's important for people to realize I think what a lot of people fall into which is what I experienced is that it must be something about me and not about the other person and everybody that I've talked to that has cheated on somebody says that it's never ever about the person that they cheated on it is always in a thing within themselves and i i didn't believe that until i started like really working

through this in therapy because it's so easy to be like well it's something that i'm falling short yeah i'm not enough yeah and then you fall into that you start trying to fix yourself and it's like there's nothing to fit you're fine you're yourself and like sure like yeah we've been fighting a lot and i could be better and it's like no no couples fight and then they don't always cheat yeah so it's fighting is normal yeah right you're gonna have some fights and like it's it really at the end of the day like when you're able to get away from the idea that it's a shortcoming of yours is when like the actual good work starts getting done of like fixing a relation if you do want to work at it which is not for the faint of heart but if you do want to work at it and push

past it like getting out of your own head about it and recognizing that it's something about the other person something about the relate like you as a as a unit is wrong it get the work starts to get a little bit easier because you can't you fixing yourself and trying to make yourself everything that this person wants you to be is not the answer like you shouldn't have to be anything other than who you are if you need to be something other than who you are to be with this person you shouldn't want to be with this person period period I've thought about this a lot this is my entire that's on therapy this is my entire adult life leading up to this moment I love that I like when you read because I have a moment to drink yes love that my drink enjoy

yourself lean back relax I'm fully man spreading right now my boyfriend so first I'll say Amelia's friend calls my boyfriend mr liz which is now my favorite name but mr magic man that calls him mr liz he has a nickname on the magic man you named a magic man oh yeah yeah yeah i didn't know that was him yeah oh well magic man calls my boyfriend mr liz so that's how he will be referred to from now on out mr liz we i like that better than my boyfriend mr liz me too i like mr liz okay too so mr liz has this habit of um like when i'm man spreading he takes a picture of it and it happens a lot and i had no idea we were at and i love that for me we were at brunch if no it was my birthday it was my birthday night um mr liz was sitting next to me and he was just like

check this out it's just a picture of liz on his phone and she was just like in the back of a car not on the seat at all but kind of sitting you were like leaning like on like your elbows were where your butt goes in the car and your legs were fully spread out in a car it was in the back seat of a car and i was like what is she doing and he's like she just she man spreads a lot and it was so out of context it was hilarious we weren't talking about it i should start i'm gonna post a picture of me man spreading so people know he'll know the one that he showed me it was the back of the car ask him for that one it was a good okay he probably has an album oh knowing him it's like he almost um it was he had it at the ready it was like he had a shortcut in his phone

oh yeah he was like he probably does hey ladies it's me again your bff with the married boyfriend who lives halfway across the country anyway y'all asked for cheating cheater stories and i imagine the i cheated stories are not super popular it took me a little while to admit that i cheated and to this day my ex still not does not my and to this day my ex still does not know the full extent to which i did but here we go from late 2013 to early 2015 i was off and on again with a guy we'll call toothbrush toothbrush was an emotionally abusive asshole that i was convinced i could change and make lovely love me we've all been there you can't change anyone nope he only ever wanted me for sex and i felt i quote knew him too well unquote to actually be with him

what in the actual fuck does that mean my underdeveloped prefrontal cortex led me to continue in the cycle of abuse for years having my heart broken over and over in february 2015 i finally broke things off and started adventuring through the world of tinder where i came across a guy with a funny name i'd never seen before i remember starting to swipe left on him but dragging my finger back slowly to see his picture, then swiping right. I do that so much. His profile said something like,

I have pizza, so I messaged him, where's the pizza? And we went from there. We'll call him Pizza in this story. Good nickname. Pizza and I text. Yeah, we like that. Pizza and Toothbrush.

I need to take some notes from you on how to name these guys. Fancy Waiter. That's the worst name. I have something about shoes and feet. I like Fancy Waiter. Fancy Waiter's a good name. It's a good name.

Okay. pizza and i texted for a few months before finally meeting in person and he was totally cool with it we matched in march met in early june and were officially together by august our anniversary was the same as my parents so it felt pretty perfect our anniversary was also toothbrush's fucking birthday go figure he must be a virgo do not fuck with that it's neither here nor there but moving on during the summer that pizza and i were dating toothbrush weaseled his way back into my life as they do i'm gonna sing my little side comments so you can differentiate between what she's saying what i'm saying one muggy july night toothbrush called me and i answered i don't

know why i answered but my stupid heart told me to you have to listen to your gut i hate this but it feels right i sat on my side porch at 2 a.m to the cicadas and swatting away mosquitoes as he went on and on about this girl who just broke up with him before eventually asking if i was talking to anyone i cut fucking i hate guys i told him the musical wow that's gonna be the name of this episode cheating the musical i told him briefly about pizza and he started his narcissistic bullshit of asking how he was compared to him etc fuck all the way off i take it back he must be a leo after that phone call we texted off and on but nothing remarkable pizza knew vaguely about

toothbrush but i didn't tell him that he was back in contact with me in february 2016 guilt overcame me and i told pizza that i'd been texting toothbrush i didn't give him details but i did tell him that i stopped which was true at the time we almost broke up no he almost broke up with me but graciously gave me another chance then may rolled around i was graduating from college and for whatever reason i got stupidly upset that pizza wasn't quote dressing up unquote for my ceremony looking back i don't know why i gave a fuck but it bothered me a lot that day it's usually the result this is amelia now it's that's usually the result of like a whole bunch of shit you know if you get mad about petty stuff like that there's more happening beneath the

service it's true one of the thoughts that came to mind was well toothbrush would have dressed up why i checked up up on his tumblr that day and replied to one of his posts saying that i was thinking about him we briefly we started texting shortly after that and fell back into our usual bullshit but this time i decided we could actually meet up in person i lied to pizza and said that i was hanging out with a college friend but in reality i was having lunch with toothbrush where I drank one too many pomegranate martinis we went back to my apartment and things got slutty I bent over to turn on the ac unit oh god what's that like I bent over to turn on the ac unit and he slid a hand up my dress then we were sitting on the couch and he was admiring my new thigh

tattoo with his hands as they wandered then we ended up in my bedroom we didn't have sex I don't even think we kissed but there were hands and mouths in places they shouldn't be when you're with someone else yeah a few weeks after that i liked one of toothbrush's pictures on instagram this was the time when you could still see an activity page with what your friends liked and commented on that was some shit amelia again that was some shady fucking shit on instagram's part i think i'm yeah i think i'm the only person who never gave a fuck about that oh i was on that like i never cared whenever anybody was ignoring me i would refresh that and see if they were on instagram okay where you're liking why are you texting me back okay going back to the story

pizza saw that i liked toothbrush's picture and decided that was it he correctly suspected that i was talking to him again and he ended our relationship i fought him on it for weeks begging for his forgiveness and for another chance but he eventually cut me off entirely my heart was shattered but i did it to myself did i really think i could fuck around and keep my committed boyfriend who deserves none of this pizza pizza never ever deserved the pain that i caused him and it still hurts to know that i did that to him all he did was love me and i let an emotional abusive douchebag convince me otherwise toothbrush and i reconnected a couple of times after my relationship ended but now it's been almost a year since i've spoken to him at all

pisa and i reconnected last winter and there were glimmers of hope of us getting back together but it ultimately did not happen he hinted at wanting to know the full truth of what went on with toothbrush but i told him that knowing only would hurt him and would do nothing beneficial for him i heard i've heard it said that people don't tell their partner they cheated for the benefit of their partner they do it to relieve themselves of guilt yes it's like admitting to murder that was amelia um but all it does is hurt the partner so sometimes i wonder if it's better to never know well actually it's better to never fucking cheat wow this is really echoing what we were just yeah so i'm a cheater and my dumb 21 to 22 year old brain assisted in my shitty decision making

i was left to deal with the consequences and pizza was the victim i haven't been in an official relationship since and that ended in 2016 my relationship with the married guy is the realest thing i've had since then i can only wonder if there is a reason that after having cheated i'm now the other woman in a relationship i understand that karma this is amelia i understand that karma feeling but it's not that's not real i mean karma is real but anyway so the story is very similar to an experience I have and I've never told this story right as we're recording I haven't told a lot of people this story it's like I feel like you and my therapist now how do you feel about that um I haven't telling it how do I feel about telling it um I knew I wanted to talk about

this eventually no matter what that's good I haven't told my boyfriend I haven't told Mr. Liz yet but I am gonna tell him before this comes out um but this is why I have a lot of uh harbored resentment towards Shuman and this maybe this will be the only time I ever tell this story again um so we have a lot of history I knew him for like we dated when we were in high school and then um into college and then broke up didn't talk for a long time and then like our paths crossed again and it was like 10 years later that we were like oh yeah let's talk again whatever this is probably like our third time dating and um we had a terrible breakup I moved out here he was supposed to move out here with me and instead he just broke up with

me and I'm really fucking thankful for that every day um but after we broke up I like met someone else like because I just was like I was excited and I wanted to move on but also I was still heartbroken and didn't know how to be alone it was a mixture of those two things I was like excited to date other people and in a new city and then i also was just like i do not know how to be alone with myself and this is like such a pivotal time in your life when you're like fucking 26 in a brand new city like you thought you're gonna marry someone and they break up with you and you're like jolting yeah yeah there's a lot going on emotionally so i met someone else and i was dating him and this is the guy I forget that I dated and he's like so unproblematic I know

so just normal I don't know what to call him the lawyer the lawyer he's a lawyer so we'll call him that um and yeah so I was dating this guy who's a lawyer the lawyer and um like a few months later a few months go by and I can just tell like my ex is dating someone else and um how I know I'm still friends with some of his friends and they were like posting pictures at group things and like she was like appearing more and I saw some shit on Venmo not like with him but like his friends were like venmoing her for stuff and i was like all right is he dating this girl and i previously did not think like oh he's dating this woman because she was going through a divorce from a woman and she like posted a lot of stuff about like being a lesbian which i also think like you

don't know until you know yeah like right whatever yeah like people it's all on a spectrum exactly like you meet someone that you wouldn't think that you would date and then you do so i just that's also why i just didn't suspect that they would be dating because she was like going through a divorce from a woman and i was like oh she doesn't even like men um but he is very feminine looking so it's not fully surprising it's just the suspicions whatever and then i was just like i can't remember why we started having a conversation or how that started happening but i just wanted i wanted some like form of closure i never got any form of closure at all like i was going through therapy and i was focusing on myself i did not want to be with him

again like in my gut i knew that wasn't right and i didn't want to be with him again but i wanted like some i wanted to have a conversation like i wanted to like reflect i wanted to have a retrospective on like how much our relationship fucking sucked and not feel like i was crazy yeah and i probably i probably initiated like our first contact to like try and have like some form of like normal conversation of like okay we're both dating other people like can we just like talk about this fucking relationship and then it morphed very quickly into he him sexting me and like I it sounds like I'm like removing myself from this and I promise I'm not he started to make the conversation sexual and at that point I knew I was like okay I can either

I can either like not participate or I can have some control and that I decided that I wanted some control so I engaged in having this like sexting conversation with him and um we exchanged like nudes and stuff and it was very sexual and then the next day I was like I don't feel good about this and um I was like I regret doing that like I just wanted to have a conversation with you also in the back of my mind like I'd be lying if I didn't say like I knew that I could get him to like send me nudes and say sexual things to me and have some sort of like leverage in general and feel like I had some control yeah it's a it's a power thing at that point yeah when you felt so powerless for so long exactly like if this is how I have to get you to talk to me and I have

something I have some sort of power in this situation yeah it levels the playing field is how it feels yeah so um I mean I did not feel good about it though like I'm dating this completely innocent person who is very like unproblematic like you said I don't think like my heart was ever fully in it I think I like it was a rebound for sure yeah I had a crush on him but I just was not really like fully invested and also I just I needed to be alone I needed to be alone with myself as an adult that that was something I had never experienced until that point and I don't know he was also like I don't feel good either I know if we were in person like I would I would do things I regret or something like that and then I know if we were in person

i would not have done anything like i just know that about myself like i don't cross that line but still emotionally and sexually i crossed a line that like if someone did that to me i would consider it cheating we never met up in person or anything so you can cut this out if you don't want to say it but he was texting you things like don't wear a skirt around me oh yeah like well fucked up shit so after that yeah i was like i was still continuing to try to just have a normal conversation like i want to talk to you about like our relationship ending i want to have some sort some kind of closure and then no matter what i said like if he texted me or i texted him first it was all he would try and make the conversation conversation sexual no matter what there was one

weekend he was out of town and he was texting me like out of town from where he lives like in a different city and he's like oh I'm going to a shoe convention and I was like is that where everyone is a shoe and he was like are you calling me a shoe and then I said that's a good question if you were a shoe what kind would you be and he was like well I'll let you decide and I said something like a Chelsea boot I don't know and I explained why and then I was like what kind of shoe would i be and then he said like a stiletto because i know you like at least six inches and like made it somehow made a conversation about shoes really sexual and then i was like i can't remember what i said but i like made it non-sexual and then i was like that would hurt my feet or

something or i was like i was like someone who loves foot fetishes would love this or like something like corny and like stupid and then every conversation i tried to have with him he just made it sexual and i was just like enraged yeah and i also felt guilty um so i broke up with my boyfriend that the lawyer like shortly after because i was like okay he did not deserve this yeah um and clearly i'm not ready to be in a relationship because this is not like something that I'm proud of or I would normally do that's big of you to recognize that I did not tell him though I never told him and I chose not to tell him because he had previously dated a woman that it seemed like they were really in love but she cheated on him and he was very like

damaged from that he and I knew that like me cheating had like what via text who gives a shit like it doesn't matter if it was physical or not like me cheating had nothing to do with him and I didn't want to make it worse I didn't want him to have more of like a fear that he was gonna be cheated on I I just didn't want to like be another thing that he was like insecure about because he did not deserve that because like you said it was not about him at all like he's an amazing guy he's handsome he is smart that he has everything going for him I just was not ready to be in a relationship and like he did not deserve to be like fucked over or feel bad about himself or anything like I just didn't I don't I don't know I didn't want him to like have any repercussions

from knowing that yeah and that's why I made that decision and my therapist was also like you're taking away his choice so I'm aware of that too but like I'm I do have to say I'm still happy with the decision I made because I don't know I just think that he like deserves someone who loves him and will like be present with him and not be distracted or need to like change and grow and I don't know I think if there was a physical component in person you probably would have told him yeah I think that it was the nature of the of the cheating that made it so that it was like it would harm him more to know yeah because I definitely felt like it would have hurt him more if he knew yeah and I mean that's his decision to make and I did not give him the opportunity

to decide that I made the decision for him which also isn't fair but like I said like I don't regret the decision i made because you put a lot into it i i did i talked to my therapist a lot about what i thought i should do and i and then afterwards like i just was enraged that like he wouldn't everything he gave me was a non-answer and i remember specifically being like i just feel like you like owe me an apology or something yeah and then he was like you're right but i don't deserve to be forgiven which is just a fucking excuse to be like a dick bag or i don't feel like i deserve your forgiveness and it's just an excuse to not like have a conversation and not admit like how you hurt me and at that point like now i would love to still have a conversation no i don't want

to fucking talk to this idiot but it just I was so enraged and then I like I had gone back to Vegas with one of our friends um for like a weekend like a long weekend and I knew I was going to be triggered that weekend and I like got hammered in like the bars we used to go to and I like ran into one of his friends and i told him i was like he cheated on this girl with me and um he was like oh fuck and then i was like did he cheat on me and he's like not that i know of and then um i like was blacked out and i like sent her a message on instagram you were blacked out when you sent that originally well so here's what happened i like was blacked out and i sent her a message like i was like he cheated on you and whatever like it was just a long rambling

message and then i was able to unsend it oh good like right away uh i figured it out like a couple hours later because i was with our friend and i was just like hammered and i was like fuck i accidentally hit send because i was gonna delete it and then i i remember hitting send and i was like oh no and then I was like oh I guess this is what the universe wanted me to do um and then I was able to unsend it and then the next day I texted him and I was like um just so you know I went to send her this message and I was able to delete it but I think we need to talk and i found out that day that i sent him a text and was like we have to talk like he it was her birthday it was her fucking birthday i could have ruined her birthday

i'm sure she saw it well because the guy i ran into that was his friend was also there's no way she saw it was the middle of the night she definitely was asleep it was like 3 a.m oh okay was definitely asleep and they were waking up early to go do shit for her birthday because like him and all of their friends like went to like the only lake in las vegas for her birthday and the friend i ran into was there and i was like i also told your friend he was like i he i could tell he was like probably shook and he was like yeah we should have we should talk and that's when he gave me like some more fucking bullshit non-answers of like uh I was like how come you sexualized every conversation he's like I just don't know how to handle like talking to you

I'm like this is like not my problem all I want is to be like where at that point all I just wanted was to be like what what happened in your head in your decision making that you were like this is not i cannot make this work like i cannot move out i cannot follow through with the promises i made this person i just want something like some self-awareness i literally just only wanted him to be self-aware and be like can you just explain your your thought process and your decision making to me so that was super frustrating and then a few months later after i had fully removed my feelings from the situation and i was like you know what i am done i have this huge weight on my shoulders of like knowing that they're still together and he has not told her the truth

probably never will and i no longer want it to be angering me i don't want any sort of further connection to this person um and I felt really guilty and I would want to know if I were her yeah so I that's when I did message her and this was like yeah a few like a couple months later maybe a month later when I was like I'm done being mad I just want to be I want this to no longer take up any more space in my thoughts and my feelings and um I let her know like I was like here's everything I can give you proof if you want it I don't know if that would just hurt more but like I would want to know if I were you I don't wish ill on either of you I'm not doing this out of like any sort of like revenge I just want to be done yeah and then she blocked me

oh I didn't know that yeah she just blocked me so she definitely saw it she fully saw it well because it goes to your message request yeah right I didn't realize she blocked you i thought she just left you on red nope she blocked me and uh i'm assuming he just controlled the narrative and was like she's lying she's crazy she wants to be back with me oh god the crazy ex-girlfriend he he would constantly pull the narrative of like crazy ex-girlfriend constantly tale as old as time so fucked he told me that about the girl he dated before me and a girl he dated at work like he's like oh she's crazy and uh now i'm like is she crazy or like did you make her crazy yep i think about that all the

time the shit he he would he stayed in a relationship with his ex uh because he just has like a codependency issue and like would not leave even though he didn't and he just cheated on her with his co-worker like and i knew about that and then when i reflect on it i'm like he told me who he was from the very beginning and i don't know like i'm sure he was just in her ear like uh yeah my ex is crazy blah blah blah oh for sure like she just doesn't want us to be together or whatever fucking reason yeah and i think he knew he had a lot of ground to cover so he like uh two weeks later after i sent her that message he proposed to her and then they rushed their marriage they rushed having a kid i have no doubt in my mind that it's not going to end well no he's

cheating on her right now um i also just like don't have faith that someone who treats women that way is going to be a good dad to a daughter so i don't know god can you fucking imagine when he's older and she's grown up and he's feeling so protective of her there's going to be so much shame that comes along with knowing how he treated women in the past i think shame is the only feeling he has i like have done a lot of like work in therapy and talked about him so much and i just think that like shame from how he was raised and how his parents treat him and his sibling are so like disgusting and toxic and have contributed to making him a terrible person this is why therapy is so important because i feel like a lot of the time when people make decisions like that it's the

result of a lot of past shit how they were brought up and it's not always the parents fault a lot of the time it is but sometimes it's like well and his parents have fucked up parents yeah it's yeah god it runs deep it really really does and it's i yeah i'm fix yourself i'm like not proud of my decision i know i'm not innocent in that circumstance and i tried to handle it the best that i thought i could yeah um but also i like think that he is a significantly worse person yeah oh my god and like i i remember you asking me how i felt about like his wife and like um him having a kid and like i don't like like i don't really think about them at all like they're not they're non-factors in this they didn't do anything yeah they're non-factors in this

circumstance they didn't do anything they don't deserve these circumstances um yeah like i i don't know yeah like i i am sad for them that's not a life i would want for myself and i also am like worried like what my karma will be um i feel like you would have gotten it by now or maybe that was my karma it might have been something else yeah you yeah you don't know i think that sometimes things aren't karma and their lessons yeah i think karma comes back as lessons and you learned a lot from that and like i i don't know i think that it was kind of like a necessary closure in like a weird way like how that i don't think it was obviously there's never an excuse he gave me no confirmation

that he became a better person and then just like tricked someone else into marrying him that's that's my that makes me even more mad honestly if he changed and was a great person i'd be like okay i feel better about this yeah but now i just think that he is going to be even shittier to this person yeah and he already was and now there's a whole child involved well i appreciate you opening up about that because i know how hard it is to talk about it's really difficult to admit that you've done some something of that nature yeah but it's a unique point of view like I really wanted to have like maybe we'll do this in the future but like a panel of people that have cheated because I have a lot of questions I think your experience with it is unique in that there was

no physical component it was an ex um you were in a relationship that was basically a rebound um to like feel something post that ex that you ended up doing that with so like there are a lot of unique like moments that I think are valuable for people to hear because really like a lot of the time cheating is the result of like unique circumstances it's not always just like oh I just want to fuck someone else no I wanted so badly to just feel like I had any sort of control and agency in that breakup because I was absolutely blindsided I like like I've said like i am so thankful like every day that i am not in that relationship that i was able to like escape same i don't know and maybe maybe deep down he always knew that like what he has now

was never going to be me i was never going to settle and if i stayed with him it would have been settling yeah so i don't know i agree i would love to hear what he thinks now but i also like pretty much don't give a shit because he had plenty of opportunities yes and I've like the times I have talked to my therapist I'm like I like wonder if he is like a better person like if he was the person I like was hoping he could be and then I was like the answer is no because if he was he would have talked to me yeah he would have tried to have a conversation with me and I haven't I have his phone number blocked now because I like I was like you know what i don't want to hear what he has to say and also blocking their number gives you the power back of

like i'm not always going to be wondering if they're gonna apologize because i'm taking in my own hands you like don't have a choice yeah i don't want to hear what you have to say i also think him being like well i don't want to apologize because i feel like i don't deserve your forgiveness like go blow yourself he just didn't want to take he didn't want to take accountability yeah he did doesn't want any has nothing to do with has never had any accountability for doing anything wrong and when you say i'm sorry you're admitting to doing something wrong yeah that's what apologizing is and he wasn't ready to do that no so so that's my uh cheating story i have no doubt in my mind that he probably cheated on me at some point

so i mean like i don't want to say once a cheater always a cheater but like when he's caught him doing suspicious shit when he says you're the only person i haven't cheated on bull fucking shit yeah he's you a cheetah doesn't change their stripes like well what kind of your history here tells me that you're lying yeah yeah um so i was hoping we could end with like some sort of fact maybe oh yeah so i looked up uh cheating stats i did not read them because you showed up right when i was looking them up okay we're learning these at the same time we could take turns reading these bullet points love it so in in in uh in lieu of a sex fact of the week we'll have some cheater facts cheating fact of the week cheating fact of the

week oh yeah nice i love an ad lib okay go ahead um so the first one uh is it's estimated that 10 percent of affairs start online wow that's that feels low it does feel low huh well very interesting i wonder if like this is like online like they're not taking into account dating apps or something probably but also like that's like one out of ten you know some of them like nine out of ten could be like at work or like at a bar oh we're living in a post-covid world we're like where do people meet if not online where do people cheat where do people cheat and meet how people cheating and during covid cheating and meeting cheating all online thank you so much i'm like trying to balance it on three fingers okay 40 of online affairs turn into real life

affairs whoa that was like a one big jump a yeah 40 huh okay um revenge infidelity accounts for nine percent of cheating behavior holy cannoli so if like someone cheated on you and you want to get back at them by cheating also that's only nine percent it's pretty low that feels so low it's very low well all right 36 percent of cheaters have affairs with their co-workers that's what you were saying holy shit sorry i'm like really getting italian with my hands now just knocking everything over that makes a lot of sense 36 feels like a like a girthy number i believe it okay um and 22 of men have cheated on their significant other what does it say for more items is there a woman's stat oh and these are from 2018 we're living in a different world

now oh wow okay yep there it is 14 of women have cheated on their significant other interesting little jump men we have our fucking eye on you the last thing i want to ask you is like at what point do you consider something cheating i was thinking a lot about this i think that it's definitely different person to person emotional infidelity whilst not anything physical hurts more for me yeah than just having like a roll around in the hay i think both are equally like bad yeah yeah I think no matter what like I'm thinking about what would hurt me more and like both would hurt me equally I for a while I think because when I was going through my most recent cheating experience the idea of him having feelings for these girls hurt more than the

idea of him fucking them like him having sex was that that hurt a lot but the part that I was really hooked into was like I bet that he has like a better emotional connection than we have that was the thing that hurt the most that killed me um now I think I can look back and know that in the moment the physical stuff was what really what like what I was hooking into and it took I was on the phone with my mom crying about it and I was like I was like only talking about the sex and it was her that pointed out she was like he he can have he can do whatever he wants with anyone the moment that it turns into a big deal is when there's an emotional component and I hadn't thought about it that way until then and that was the moment that I really kind of like switched my

definition of cheating but everybody has different definitions of it and it's interesting to talk so if you were like exclusive with someone and they like fucked someone else would you still consider it cheating I would still consider it cheating would it be easy would you want to work past that or would you be like I've done this before and I'm done doing this again I would never I don't want to be ever be with anyone that has any sort of cheating but say it was my first experience with it i think if somebody had just fucked someone rather than like an affair like a full-blown like kind of double life situation yeah i think i would have an easier time forgiving them yeah if it was just a hookup versus like a full-on affair yeah what about you

i don't even know man like i think no matter what it would suck like i i get insecure about my partner's past partners depending on like you know if they have like a lot of sexual experience i'm like holy fuck i'm so boring compared to like his past experiences like how am i comparing to this like i don't know that causes some insecurity so if they hooked up with someone else i'd be like okay that just affirms that i'm like not sexually interesting or attractive to you and i don't know how like even if i we worked through it like i don't know how emotionally i could cope with that i wouldn't be able to i would just be like i would anytime they tried to make a sexual advance i

would feel terrible about myself and if it was emotional i think i'd just be all the way out yeah i will say every single time that i hooked i had sex hooked up every time i had sex with my ex after i found out that he had cheated i thought about him with other girls every single time and that's really tough there's like a trauma that comes along with it yeah um i think also you comparing yourself to like past people there's like this is going back to like early episode amelia there's a biological component of comparing yourself to other people that's so human to do that and so like it's easy to do that when it's like physical only because i'm thinking emotionally like of course other people are going to be attracted to my partner like for the same reasons

I am yeah not just physical like I think they're a great like like Mr. Liz specifically like I'm like yeah of course people are gonna have a crush on him he's like so cute and funny and smart and good at his job and like well-spoken and like thoughtful like all of these things that are the reason i love him like yeah people other people are totally gonna think that's attractive and that's kind of a compliment to you yeah and then and then i i recently asked him i was like would you tell me if someone was flirting with you and he was like um he was like yes but i also like don't think i would like pick up on it and then he sat there and he's like the other day when i was in line ordering food someone told me i had pretty eyes and i was like

well you do yeah i was like well they weren't wrong so yeah i mean who is she yeah which grocery store was it checking out the security footage yeah no i think um it's always there's always going to be a piece that's like even if you're married to someone for like 50 years it's like who's trying on my husband yeah it's like but it's also a compliment yeah of course people are gonna like have some sort of attraction to your your partner because you did and the difference is if they act on it and yeah that's and like what your like agreement between each other is like hey if you ever feel like this kind of way like let's have a plan in place like don't let it scare you yeah or like

right sway what you do because of course like other people are going to be attracted to you and you are going to be attracted to other people right at the end of the day like we love each other and agreed to this partnership yeah so let's take it from there i don't know yeah i agree i'm not experienced enough in long-term relationships to and even if you wear every relationship is so different that's true that's the cool thing about relationships you can kind of like more make your own rules as you go it's the cool thing and the fucked up thing because it's like sometimes i'm like can i just have a fucking handbook for this shit yeah i just want there to be some rules yeah rules and regulations i just think i'm being confused i just want

someone to tell me what to do because my brain's tired oh god that's like the the adult life tagline like just can somebody make the decisions for me my brain's tired adult i feel like this is a good place to end especially because it's so i'm so fucking hot okay cool all right um thank you for listening i'm sure we're going to have another conversation about this oh for sure i'm you guys sent us so many interesting messages it would be so fun to just read the things you guys send us yeah maybe we'll do that in a future episode where it's just reader reader mail love that listener mail new testament oh the newest testament the newer testament um at the holy hour on twitter tiktok and instagram holy hour podcast at gmail.com we're on fucking patreon

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