The Hoely Hour - E6 The Good Word

Episode Date: July 22, 2020

Excuse me, do you have a few minutes to talk about The Good Word of Aftercare? The girls talk about what aftercare is and why everyone should be doing it. Does he Kirby you when you make out? And Liz is into BDSM and is the only one who didn't know, apparently. Xoxo, Go$$ip Gurl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. May slow when network is busy. c terms uh anyways just want to throw that in you ain't shit i'm just kidding Welcome to the Holy Hour. I'm Amelia Sampson. And I'm Liz Ball. Thanks for joining us. Thanks

for coming to Mass. Yeah. So this is what happened last week, folks. I was, I had done most of the editing of the episode and I was like switching back and forth between two different recordings recordings and I went to finish editing last week's episode and the main brick of like audio we had recorded was gone entirely fucking gone and I was like is this a joke I thought it was a night like this sounds dramatic but I woke up and I thought that I was having a nightmare when I saw your text I was like there's no way I was I was literally screaming I almost started crying but luckily i didn't i was like cursing i'm sure my neighbors were like what the hell is going on is this a do we need to call the police and there was no way to control myself too

garage band is just like a little archaic and it feels a little cosmic that it was deleted because i found myself um talking about a guy i've been seeing who i like and i wanted the podcast to tell him for me instead of me telling him myself uh so i think that it was kind of it was nice that i was forced to be honest face to face with the universe was like uh-uh yeah delete um go tell yourself so like we're the way you guys are going to hear these is going to be like out of order when we recorded them so uh this Wednesday will be this episode and we're recording it Sunday and then next Wednesday we will have recorded it like what two weeks ago or something while ago we were so young yeah we were we didn't know anything so what do you think makes a bad kisser oh oh yeah

um there is like a fine line between having your mouth open too much or too little when you're going towards someone to kiss them and like i feel like i've kissed a lot of people that are either like amelia's opening her mouth and like you opened your mouth and your eyes really wide i'm not it's like jigglypuff did we talk about that i think so no no no it's curvy curvy it's curvy like what what are you okay okay yeah yeah yeah sucking me in um so there's that and then there's also somebody that comes at you with like too too pursed like like too yeah yeah like not just like really like guantanamo like you're not getting it's just like too tight yeah it's like a high security yeah that was a good

you're really good at making that sound i can't do it you sound like a sound effect in a movie i can't do it i i'm gonna have a new job doing yeah doing the kissing sound effects for the bachelor except those are like and that always goes on way too long i hate mouth noises i hate mouth noises no thank you do a mouth sound like the vacuum cleaner from teletubbies really sexy that's me this is a sexy mouth noise liz that's what they call me that's what they should call me

change your handle on instagram maybe sexy yeah maybe sexy oh that's so funny what what's your opinion on like what makes a bad kisser when i think about the the bad kissers i've kissed it's like um yeah open mouth pointy tongue the point terrible yeah awful combo or like they're stabbing their tongue in your mouth and you're like what are you doing right if you don't know how to use tongue don't just don't yeah you don't need to you don't need to just and or if i don't know follow someone else's lead i guess yeah i don't know but then how do you know if you're a bad kisser you know i guess that's true because nobody ever tells anyone that they're a bad kisser no that's sensitive yeah and i don't think men can handle that no offense men i don't think

that you're equipped to handle hearing kissing criticism from women 100 that is so so true i want to know if i'm a bad kisser well when you think about how much criticism women are subjected into every day it's like if one guy tells you you're a bad kisser it's like water off a duck's back yeah cool like well noted that fucking sucks but what am i gonna do never kiss anyone ever again onto the roster yeah um of things that i'm getting criticized about that's so true yeah what god that sucks we really are so much better at taking criticism than um i also think stiff lips you know yeah have you ever kissed someone with a dry mouth yes you're like drink water sir yeah stop chewing so much gum yeah that's so true i also like i made out with a guy once who

this was so long ago so long ago but he he would breathe in really sharply between kisses like we would be like making out and he'd pull back and be like i was like are you good are you good are you just forgetting to breathe like why do you need to take such a deep breath and then when it wasn't sharp breaths it was to like oh no I hate that I was like I'm seriously like are you good like do we need do you have an inhaler anywhere like can we play some music I don't want to like I don't want to hear this anymore maybe he was so nervous that he was just like yeah like forgot to breathe he met he may have been I don't know I mean we were we were pretty young this even this feels unfair to talk

about because how old are you uh 19 but it was still it stuck with me and he was older he was 21 but it's like it was just very strange it was it was very very strange he probably still does that honestly yeah he probably does that's so funny he's probably listening like i think that's me i breathe sharply between kisses is that not what i'm supposed to be doing he probably doesn't notice the only time so when you said that i just thought about like if you're singing along to a song and then you like yeah yeah oh my god oh man yeah no that's hilarious well now i'm thinking would i want to be told if i was a bad kid now that i said that i'm like wait do i want to know if i'm a bad i know that i'm not and also like how much of it is just like subjective yeah it's

totally that's so true i don't know if there are even bad kissers are good there are there are some bad kissers but for the most part it's definitely compatibility thing i think yeah like some people if your lips don't work together yeah if your lips just go together yeah and sometimes after over time like maybe if you're both nervous like your lips are a little more stiff yeah yeah and then they like once you guys are warmed up yeah it's easier that's so true so i always try and give like if i'm like oh that was not ideal um give give them another chance and then be like okay i'm gonna put it all on you like yeah see if we can uh improve this little yeah if there's some chemistry yeah and then yeah sometimes there's not uh-huh which there's always

a letdown but it's not the end of the world yeah this um this guy had gone on a few dates with like i think our second date i was like all right we're just i'm just gonna like go for making out see what happens good for you and it was is not good it was not good at all man it was like his mouth was just like I had to wipe my face after no yeah but then it was also like his mouth was almost like dry I don't know like you know how your mouth feels when you like wake up oh yeah and it's like kind of dry and like like yeah you know what I mean he still slobbered on you I don't know how to describe it that's disgusting it was it really was and I just after that I had no attraction to him anymore yeah I mean I also like the way he treated me was kind of annoying

like um I know I've mentioned this to you before but I feel like some guys like want me to be maternal um like part maternal but also part like take care of me like I'm a helpless little girl you can't it's one or the other like I don't need you no and you need to be okay with that but then they also lean on you for emotional yes so it's like do you want to be your daughter or your mom which one is it they want both yeah i can't have both and it's only certain guys like i don't get treated like that by every guy but i do i haven't noticed that pattern among certain guys they're like i want you to be baby but i also want you to be like my emotional support system and my fleshlight you're just like can you fuck all the way off into the sun it's tough because i think a

lot of people not just guys but we'll talk about guys here have like this self-imposed and maybe societally imposed expectation to be a provider but then they also have so many gaps that they need filled as well so it's like I'm gonna take care of you but I also need you to stroke my ego constantly and make me feel supported and loved and it's everybody needs support and love but it's like when you spring that on somebody so strong it's so off-putting it's like let me just like take care of you like don't like you know force that piece on me but also like recognize that I don't need you to take care of me but if you need to show me that you love me that way then it's like just it I feel like these guys come on way too strong they try to like inflict their

understanding of what they think that we need from them so intensely and it's so off-putting whenever I'm treated like a child by a guy I'm like it is the most frustrating it's infuriating well also i think if you if um like a woman did fit into all of these boxes that they had right away i don't think that it would be satisfying the way that like these types of men think it would be and i'm sure women do the same thing you know maybe in a less obvious way but yeah i i totally think that um like the men who do this would realize like oh that's not actually what I need because what you actually need is to be happy and confident on your own you can't like lean on someone else to um fill these parts yes of you that you're missing yeah

the guy I've been seeing we've talked a lot about how um like different areas of my life I've been like experiencing more and more like infantilization um like with my parents I it's so weird to me that like I'm two years older than my brother and he's still treated like he's older than me you know and um like even their neighbors I I don't feel like they infantilize me as much but like they definitely treat me as like their second daughter but they also treat me as like their second teenage daughter like I'm almost 30 yeah so it's so fucking weird to me when I'm treated like a teenager and sure like maybe I do look like a teenager but I I don't know but you're not no exactly I'm not a teenager like I am a professional and you know I'm out here working

in a field no one knows anything about and you moved across the country to like you know like start a life for yourself so when you go back here on my own I don't ever ask for money like I don't know so it's it's really weird to me like the older I get the more I experience that because my face is not aging right I'm not complaining what I'm just I just want to say I'm not complaining that I look very young um but it is just like it it's a frustration I feel like I run into often and I also am really thankful that the job I have now um when I was being interviewed we did not do video interviews and I think that also helped me stand out as a professional who has a lot of experience and knowledge in what I'm doing um yeah but the

infantilization thing like it is just really interesting to talk to the guy I've been seeing about it and like um because he is so open-minded and I don't he hasn't like experienced that of like looking young and then also being treated like a baby yeah and um I also think some of it is a little bit of like inherent sexism like um oh well my brother who's two years younger than me and like is living on his own and stuff like he's working on his career and he's a professional and then like for me half of the things i face is like so are you seeing anybody like when do you think you'll get married i'm just like i don't fucking know like i have so much other shit i want to do and i'm like finally like starting to make a dent in where i want to be in my career path so like

getting married and having kids isn't the front of mind for me right now i'm just like i feel like i'm in like college part two in seattle because i'm like i finally have like the means to just take care of myself and do whatever the fuck i want and like no one around me trying to influence me it's just like i'm finally on my own doing what i want like yeah not i don't have anyone trying to control me no and I like there's enough distance between like me and my parents that um they can't really like infiltrate that yeah and I love them and I get along with them so much so well but um but they do have that space yeah exactly to have to have some more boundaries yeah totally and I can understand why it gets more frustrating as you've gotten older too because

it's like you really are fucking killing it and like you've made so many big life moves for yourself so for you to feel like good and comfortable and confident in this like point in your life that you're in and then to be like sent back you know to like visit family and have people treat you like you haven't made any of this progress it's like no you pointed out to me we were talking we don't even need I don't want to get into it because yeah you know why but like you said to me it's really frustrating when you put so much effort into being respected and women have to work so much harder to be respected so then to be like it's like the red carpet conversation of like women on the red carpet always get the who are you wearing questions

and then men on the red carpet always get like how did you dig into this character and like yeah how do you prepare for this role yeah it's like we are having to do double the work yeah and this is tough because it's it's different for i i'm sure no i know it's different for white men like it's really kind of a it's it's a white man thing because black men and most white men know it's different for them yeah the good ones do yeah right but like we have to just like as women have to work twice as hard to get half the distance as white men do yeah so it's like when we do it and we're like feeling confident with ourselves and then that gets challenged it's so fucking frustrating yeah like it's just i don't know well and i i know i had mentioned to you

because like um you had tweeted like the conversation we were having but I know I had mentioned to you um you want to be you work so hard to be respected the way you are and I have run into that challenge so many times where it's like yeah I am outgoing and I like to be silly and like I have I like to have a good time but I'm also more than that yes and it's it's annoying when you're just like people amount you to just being like funny and like outgoing and cute and you're like okay but i'll also like fucking fight you yeah and yes and i'm really good at my job or whatever we get put into boxes with how we with how we conduct ourselves it's like why can't why do i have to be serious to be taken seriously yeah yes i can be good at my job and i can be

funny on twitter like right they're not mutually exclusive this was like the hillary clinton thing i mean i she was completely unelectable and we don't need to talk about politics but she was but like a huge part of that was because she had to be this robot and she said it too it's like she can't be emotional she's in her 60s and she was getting 60s 70s i don't know she was getting constant criticism of like well what like what'll happen when she's on her period and it's like are you fucking joking do you know how many wars were started by men like we don't need to be these like emotionless creatures to be respected yeah like i can have a good time and and laugh and be like quirky and bubbly and i can also be good at my job and smart and have good conversations

with people and i think men are allowed to be everything like they're allowed to be all of the above and like it's super celebrated when like obama was like this like really cool hip like funny would like break out in song during his speeches guy and if hillary became president and did the same and be like she's erratic even the way that aoc is treated yes just like this young beautiful smart like vicious woman yes doing it all and like constantly criticized for like having a personality yes it's just so fucking annoying it's so fucked up it's like her coming on too strong whenever she's like test you know like it's just if if you replace her with a man nothing that she does would ever be criticized ever ever ever and it's like I had a boss who was

so mean like she was so um bossy like very steamrolly um and she got called out for it and she was like yeah but like picture me being a man like would this be bad and everyone was like no like that like you would just be like a strong man it's like and it's fucked up that even i who is painfully aware of that fact still fell into that of like why is she such a bitch and it's like no she's just getting her job done the same that a man would be doing it yeah it's just oh my god it's just like it's so and it sucks because like we're saying it's so available to people and people are becoming more and more aware of it and it's so great but there's still so much work to do that it's just like like it's like having these conversations are so important

because it's like I don't know it to challenge yourself and to get yourself out of this way of thinking about how you have these like gender roles set up in your in your mind is it's such an important step for everybody to take yeah people are like well I'm not sexist like I have a few sisters so like it's like no what like holy hold on like that doesn't mean you don't need to do the work like you're everything all these ideas of these expectations for genders are constantly reinforced like every single day and it's not gonna be perfect you know so like as you as you learn and challenge these ways of thinking like you do have to confront like yeah you have been raised to believe and fall into some of these categories or place men or women in these

categories and you have to break them and like i think a perfect example is like when brick house called me out about like um saying like oh i feel like men always want to have sex yeah and him challenging me to like think about um how that's not true and like what what continuing that narrative uh would actually do so like i appreciate that he challenged me to think about that and like now I see it differently yeah and um I think if I was ashamed and I was like well that's just what I experienced like yeah then that defensive about yeah then that's just like going against everything we're trying to do on this podcast yeah we're constantly learning and like we need to be having these conversations with each other because like yeah to be so that's the thing like

there's a difference between like calling somebody out in that way of just being like I disagree with this and like maybe you should think about it this way rather than like coming at somebody and being like you're wrong yeah and it's like because then you're just going to trigger someone into being defensive and then that conversation gets nowhere yeah right so it's not productive for anybody i like how this started out as um what do you think qualifies a bad kisser this always happens and spins out to to challenging gender roles i live for it in society i really do this how all of our conversations go even when we're not recording that's so true like our text conversations are this way the things we talk about online are like this yes it's so true it's

so funny okay um no so but the thing that i had talked about in the the episode that got deleted that i think is important to touch on again um so i had gone on a date with brick house and it was after my first date with him and uh we hooked up and it it was the best sex of my life like first time we hooked up best sex of my life that is so unusual the first i know what the hell amazing i think i'll just explain high level at this point um so brick house is into bdsm and the first time we hooked up um mere hours after meeting that's honestly the first time I've like done that and it's gone well yeah uh anyways it like he had told me in advance that he was like into BDSM like by the time we like got back to my place um he had let me know and

he but he was also like he had listened to the podcast so he knew a little bit about like me and my personality and like my preferences before um like we even kissed or before even meeting me uh and he was like I think based on some of the things that you've said I think that you would be kind of interested in to some BDSM stuff and to re to recap folks I'm pretty obvious about like wanting to be choked and liking being spanked but um like I think a lot of people will say that and they they mean it lightly like yeah I just want like a little bit of hair pulling a little bit of choking yeah but this is like full-on BDSM like I had bruises on my ass the next day and I like it was exactly what I wanted but he sent me a whole bunch of different resources and the thing

that was most important and stood out the most to me was this portion of BDSM called aftercare and um essentially aftercare it what it is is the emotional fulfillment you need after like a BDSM scene because um submissives have a much larger drop than a dominant because like you have your adrenaline is really going and I would say after the first time we hooked up I definitely had a little bit of a drop um and it also might have been because we took shrooms that'll do it and I wasn't sure if I was gonna share that like you know I did drugs but um I feel like that's a little relevant yeah you know um so I think it was a combination of both like a drop from like having just like this insanely awesome first date and like an a unique sexual experience with like a

person who i think is really great just a lot of things to come down from and i was like oh why am i feeling kind of weird and then he he was like we need to talk about aftercare if we're gonna like keep you know seeing each other so when i was reading about it i was like holy fuck i think everyone having sex should be doing this I I think that like this is a lot of what I've been missing in the past with my sexual experiences um there he goes he sees a bird oh I love that is that Gatsby yeah um anyways I I definitely think that's a lot of what I had been missing And, I mean, it's no secret that, like, I do have a lot of complicated feelings around objectification and sex in general and, like, with my sexual history with past partners of, you know, being told, like, the only reason I'm with you is because I like having sex with you. Like, that fucking sucked and it was painful.

and then the way that um shoe man treated sex where he like didn't meet any of my emotional needs and um was like very manipulative and controlling but then had this expectation that i should always be wanting to have sex with him and like calling me a fleshlight who talks to him is just i it's so fucked up i can't imagine saying that to somebody yeah it makes me sad um it so i think um yeah just not having any of my emotional needs met in a relationship and then being held to this expectation of like yep i just want to fuck you and like you should be willing to do that no matter how you feel yeah or like i don't know you're here for one thing and i found myself like um just like forcing myself to have sex even when i didn't want

to because I was like well maybe I'll like be into it when it's happening but the truth is is just like none of my emotional needs were being met and I think that um yeah in a BDSM scene like I'm in control of not having control like I'm consenting to not having any control and I think that's like um the part that is appealing to me is like um it's my choice to not have control yeah and whereas before like it it wasn't my choice to be subjective your power was just being taken from you exactly wow so wow um yeah but like essentially some of the emotional things that you might need afterwards are like words of affirmation or snuggling and um maybe you want like to eat your favorite snack just to feel cared for in the way that is the most

meaningful to you and doms have a drop too you know so that was something that we also talked about because i was like okay well if i you know it's more likely for a sub to have a drop like is what can i also do for you and then um for him he was like i i just need to make sure like i need to know that you feel taken care of and that's how i avoid having a job like having a podcast about sex and dating has honestly really like forced us to be transparent from the beginning with each other so there's no secrets it's like if i'm going to be talking about this later i have to talk to you about it first yeah yeah yeah um it was that's just such an i don't want to cut you off but it's just such a it's such an interesting um idea the aftercare piece because we talked

about this when we talked before of like yeah it's so important in a b in a bdsm setting to have aftercare but like recognizing even if you're not in a bdsm situation recognizing what you need after sex is exactly so fucking important like I I was thinking about it after you told me about it and I was like thinking of the times that I've had sex where I've left feeling super empty because as I'm sure everybody listening knows now if you've been listening for a while like I am trying to keep feelings out of almost everything that I'm doing so when I would leave sex and still feel empty it's like well I I went into this knowing that there wasn't going to be any feelings involved so why do i feel so empty and sad when i'm leaving certain

situations and then you told me about aftercare and i'm like fuck like the times that i leave feeling sad are the times that i don't pay attention to my needs after sex usually it's like we'll have sex and i'll just get up and leave and that's when i feel sad when objectively i'm like that's what i want why the fuck do i care like i want it to just be you want to make it black and white and it's not and it's not there's no way that it can be because sex is no matter what no matter how you spin it it's an emotional thing in some sense it's different for everyone but it is there's always a piece of it that's emotional and I was approaching all of my sexual relationships as just like I just have a need that needs to be met you have a need that needs to be

met that we leave but it's actually I have a need that needs to be met and then also all of these needs afterward and I'm not telling you to like be my boyfriend after all of this fuck no but it's like i want to just like lay down and like chat afterward like yeah i want to feel like a human afterward that aftercare is so fucking important and it's so important it's i think amelia made a great point of just like um it doesn't need to be a bdsm experience and like it's it's obvious if it's like a bdsm experience you're like oh yeah i just like degraded you and like essentially used you but like we both were consenting to to that experience but like it's obvious how that might affect your um emotional state yeah of being like yeah i was just used like what does this mean for

my worth or whatever so that aftercare portion makes a lot of sense um but no one really considers it in the um like vanilla sex aspect right right um so i think yeah once i was reading more about it i i immediately was like everyone needs to be doing like thinking about aftercare and considering their emotional needs after sex because even if you're in a relationship and like a loving relationship or a long-term relationship hopefully that's also loving whatever relationship you're in you need to be considering your emotional needs after sex absolutely I've been seeing somebody for a while and recently like we it's been kind of rocky because he wants to be exclusive and I do not um so like our sex life has been shifting over time and recently before we started having

the aftercare conversation I started to realize that like after him and I had sex he would get really edgy and like kind of mean um but not in like a not in like an abusive sense at all like he would just kind of like poke fun at me for shit that was like kind of like like maybe not right now you know yeah and I was like why is this bugging me like we have the kind of relationship where we're like always giving each other shit for stuff and it's and it's fun like it's not like it's not malicious it's like we just like giving each other a hard time so after sex he would be doing that but it would feel so much more personal because it's like why are you being mean to me now that you've gotten sex I'm like wait why the fuck do I care and it's because there are all of these

emotions that come out when you have sex and then to feel like you're not being taken care of afterward if that's what you need which is clearly what I need like it it hurts a little bit more and that's probably also coming from some of his needs too oh for sure like him wanting to be in an exclusive monogamous relationship with you and not being able to receive that and like trying to recover from you know expressing those feelings when you guys are having sex yeah and having to go back to like being okay with the fact that you're not his girlfriend yes and you're not in an exclusive relationship so even though it's not personal yeah exactly he's protecting himself so we talked about it oh yesterday yeah how'd it go it was good so he like apologized because he was

like i feel like so he like we we were arguing about something stupid just like for the sake of debating you know yeah um and he texted me and he was like you know what I've been thinking about it and like your side of the debate was right and I was like I'm always fucking right and then he was like hello um but he was like um I've also been like thinking a lot about like how sarcastic I've been with you and I just want to make sure that I haven't been like you know doing too much and I was like you know what it's like really just like the after sex part that like you start to get a little bit too edgy and a little bit too mean and like I don't know how I feel about i just want you to be aware of it he was like absolutely 100 that's really fucked up that

i do that and i didn't notice so like thank you for telling me easy peasy it's one of those things that it's like it's obviously not going to be easy all the time but it's like yeah and but it's also like if these things are bugging you about the person that you're having sex with especially if you're having sex with them consistently like the getting yourself to say it to them is really scary but then once you do like the person that you're hooking up with more often than not doesn't realize that what they're doing is hurting you in any way so it's just like establishing what you need and having open conversations about it especially if they're doing something that doesn't jive with you yeah it's doing yourself a disservice not to say anything and then it's

also doing them a disservice because a lot of these people just want to do right by you and they just don't know I'm excited that you like were able to have this conversation and also had this like knowledge and awareness of like how to communicate it to him yeah like you're like oh aftercare yes i would have never have been able to recognize it and that's why it's so important for us to bring it up again even though the episode got deleted because a lot of people don't realize that that's a need and put it into practice and just you know regular vanilla sex that you're having and i also have had to confront i don't know if i'll get i'll keep this in but like um thinking about people who like don't want bdsm sex and only want vanilla sex has been

mind blown to me I'm like oh shit not everyone wants this yeah oh my god but there are so many kinks that people have that they probably feel the same way it's like people aren't into feet yeah like feet are beautiful chef's kiss it's also really funny that when it's not BDSM it's considered vanilla and not not in a rude way no because everybody's always like oh the sex was so vanilla but it's like in a BDSM sense it's like that's yeah in the BDSM yeah in a BDSM sense vanilla sex is just the regular sex you're having when you told when you sent me that quiz and i like the which um sexual deviant are you yeah yeah um and vanilla was like on on the long list i was like oh that's like actually what it's being called this bdsm world is so i had no

fucking idea so many like categories exactly i'm amazed it's truly its own world absolutely it's amazing and so i had talked to my therapist about like the um aftercare portion of things and she was like kink has been around for a long time and like not a lot of people know all of the the facets of this um kind of sex so the aftercare portion makes a ton of sense like the people who are involved in kink and bdsm um have created this community of of and i think that's really awesome yeah like to have this online community available and like um it's it's accessible to anyone to be to to look into and like yeah it's not just um aftercare is not exclusive to bdsm no and i think another thing that has been really interesting that i saw um

i saw this so i joined like a subreddit for brats brat life subreddit um but like so i was looking at some of the memes and one of the pictures was like um a man like wiping off this woman's like shoe and it was like to some people this might look like he's whipped or like he's being submissive but in reality like like in a dom sub situation like he's like sexually dominating her in the bedroom but taking care of her outside of the bedroom and like that juxtaposition is so important in bdsm of just like being cared for outside of having sex and um i saw another one that was like a tweet and it was like the same girls who like um getting spanked and choked are the same girls who will cry if you yell at them

and then the comment under it was like yeah dude she wants to be sexually dominated not verbally abused yes it was like exactly important to distinguish it's that is so it's like somebody can like something in the bedroom and not like it outside of the bedroom I was having this conversation with um music man what do I call it what do I call it um about how like in in the real world like I hate feeling less than I think I've actually said on the podcast yeah I like I got deleted I hate feeling like underneath someone and that also has to do with like a lot of working hard to be respected as a woman too like don't make me feel less than but the second that i'm in bed i'm like you you are you dominate me in this situation and like you tell me where to

stand and like you tell me like what to do it's it's totally different and it says nothing about who i am outside of sex they are totally different so to be like well she cries when she gets yelled at it's like yeah and also I want you to choke me I don't know where the why this is confusing for you um well so when I was talking to like after my first like kind of BDSM experience with someone who is experienced in this um area of sex and I have no experience um yeah after kind of talking to him about it and like why I found it fulfilling and I was enjoying it so much um he was like I think a lot of women who are in control of a lot of things in their lives and are really independent enjoy being a sub because it's a safe place for them to not have any control

and I was like absolutely that's how I feel is you know having control over so many things in my life and um yeah being incredibly independent and just strong opinioned and confident like and I think there's a lot of pressure that comes with that too and most of it's internal pressure yeah but yeah aside from that just like choosing to not have any control and like let a man be in control of me in the bedroom is really fulfilling in some way yeah to just not have any control and have my sexual needs met yeah in the same way it's like what we were saying before like having the rather than having your power taken from you you're giving your power away and that's not like an emotional sense obviously but it's that it's that the choice

of it is totally different yeah it's there's something appealing about it for sure yeah but i absolutely would feel differently about it if my emotional needs weren't being met and that comes with the aftercare part of it comes with that aftercare yeah and i think it's important to check in on like um your partner as well so like even if you're um submissive or if you're having vanilla sex I if you're a woman and you're having vanilla sex with a man like also check in on men yeah see see uh how they're feeling after sex this just goes back to what we were talking about with like um what Brickhouse called you out on um about like that's kind of like a dangerous because we I think we as women are like well they just it's just sex to them so

it's like we don't really need to check in but I was realizing with um the comedian like every time after we would have sex he would text me later and just be like I had a really good time like he would he would need kind of that like reinforcement not that like probably needs words of affirmation yeah totally and it's not even like a he needs to like be told that he did a good job or anything like that he just like kind of needed that like emotional reconnection and again once we started talking about the aftercare stuff it like opened up this whole way of thinking for me that it's like oh like he just needs to feel taken care of in some sense so like it definitely allowed me to start treating him differently after sex but not in a way that

was like super obvious to him because like you know I didn't want to do a shift but it's just I mean sometimes you need you need a label yeah to put on it to understand like oh that's what this is yeah yeah exactly yeah so I think that's um kind of what aftercare has done for me it's just like okay there's there's a way to describe this and this is a whole like portion of sex and like and it feels obvious but it's not yeah and that's why i'm so excited to like put this out there and like exactly i really i want everybody to like know the good word yes the good word of aftercare yeah yeah and then also like i think it's really interesting um uh there might be someone listening who's like me who um is probably like wanting a bdsm experience but not knowing

much about that world yeah and yeah i i do feel like i'm really thankful that i am have i had a bdsm experience with someone who is already knowledgeable and um not to say that like you shouldn't experiment with your partner if you're in like a long-term relationship um because that could be really fun yeah and special yeah i had a i need to hear this story night so um we're gonna change his name because i felt like the nickname that i picked for him before was i thought i was just gonna talk about him in a vacuum but it's turned out to be more than just that one date i'm sorry it's okay i was like i need a snack for this it's like popcorn i'm ready we're just going to introduce asmr into every little bit of this of this podcast

every episode is going to have an asmr aspect um but so like uh oh we're going to call him dishwasher and don't explain why if he listens he'll know that it's him but that's okay nobody else will um so me and dishwasher have been on seven dates four of which have been in his place of residence so i would have thought at some point dishwasher would have kissed me like on my way out the door or like while we're like cuddling on the couch watching a movie something like my legs have been over his legs when we're watching a movie and he's like you know like pet my knee a little knee caress I don't know what to call that a little knee caress but other than that there's been nothing so I was over at his place last night and he we were like we were on the couch for a

while like we were like drinking a little bit he had like taken an edible so he was like chilled out and straight vibing straight vibing and um he was like let's migrate to my bed and this was at like midnight and i was like oh my god okay so we like got into his bed and like nothing was happening like he was showing me a video on his phone we were watching a video about um the woman who voices siri i don't know how it came out he was high and i was like kind of drunk so i was like this is the most interesting thing i've ever seen um and like while we were watching it he kind of like put his arm like behind me and like which was kind of like inviting me in to like put my head on his arm and so then the cuddling started um and we were just like like that for like an

hour and a half and I was like my head was on his chest and I was just like looking at him and he was talking he like was not making a move and I was like are we just friends that cuddle is that what this is but it was such an awkward because he was high and it was late and he had fallen asleep a few times and like I had kind of almost fallen asleep a few times but then we like would wake because he snores very loudly so then i would like jolt him awake and he'd be like oh i didn't know i wasn't snoring you know so then we would like be awake and talking um and then at like two in the morning i was like well i'm gonna go and he was like all right and then i was like really like i've been laying in your bed cuddling with you for two hours and you have not made a single

move and it's like it would be one thing if this was our first time hanging out or like this was just like a unique experience we were cuddling we cuddle every time we hang out and he never does anything more than that and if we're friends that cuddle fine but like that doesn't even feel authentic so it's like are you just worried about making a move but earlier in the night he had mentioned something it was in context it wasn't like by the way I don't make a move he was like in context he was like I usually let the girl make the move because I don't want her to feel uncomfortable like I'm forcing it on her if I'm reading the situation wrong which was woke and I was like fuck yeah i get like i get that um because he's a big dude too so it's like what

we were talking about last week or two weeks ago i guess now no it was last week where like if you are in the position with a guy where you are like giving the impression that you're ready to have sex there's pressure to just do it even if you don't want to do it yeah um and so for him to say that i was like yeah i get that so when i was leaving his place at 2 a.m i like left his room and I was like getting all of my shit together in the living room and I was like no and I like went into his room and he was like kind of like propped up on his elbow just like watching me like get everything ready and I just went up to him I just kissed him yeah and so we just started making out and um it just like I couldn't tell if it was going to be more than

that but like the kissing was like really intense and like every time I'd pull away he'd like pull me back in i love that so i was like okay you're into this too okay finally i know fucking finally and this man i haven't really spoken much about him on the podcast but he is so like like he's just so hot and like he's so big like he's like he's very very tall and just like very sure of himself and like he's just so sexy to me he's just so sexy so like i was happy with where this was going um and then it like I like kind of pulled away and I was like anyway I'm gonna go and he was like oh is that your cue and I was like yeah and I like stood up then I was like nah and I went back in and I was like I went on top because up till this point I was just like laying beside him

and we were making out and then I like straddled him and then I like pulled back and he was just like running his hands like we're just looking at each other he's like running his hands on my waist and I was just like like he was just like oh and just how I care and he was so tired so like it was kind of like this weird sleepy interaction um anyway one thing led to the next and um so like it it just kind of felt like things were progressing to the point in which we were going to have sex it was just like kind of like yeah all of this and it could have I could have just been like I'm gonna make you wait but it was just like we had been on seven dates at that point it's like it's time for us to jump into this and we're here this situation was not ideal for good

sex but like he it was just like very selfish sex and I don't know if he thinks that I came when he was going down on me like I don't I don't know um but like he finished intentionally fast and like I could tell that he was like that was like what he was trying to do it wasn't like oh god i'm gonna cut like you know how that happens sometimes it's like i'm so sorry now i'll take care of you he like intentionally came got up clean himself up and then just got back into bed and was like i'm so tired now and i was like are you joking and i was talking to um my my best friend katie and her her partner and her apparently have spoken about this this morning um that there I think that there and and her partner who is a man also thinks that like there is this um

insecurity that comes with not being able to make women come from sex just from porn yeah um and if she didn't come a lot of that is fake yeah it's like if you didn't make her come during sex you didn't do a good job and that's not true no it's just harder for us to come from just sex well and i think this kind of circles back to the point of why we have this podcast is to make people feel comfortable about talking about sex before they have sex yeah um because the ultimate goal should be like this needs to be a mutual experience yes you know you both want to enjoy it and i think most people are on the same page yeah we both want to enjoy sex but we're not thinking of all of like the emotional ties and aspects that come along with it yes so for him to not ever have to have

that conversation and for women to not feel comfortable having that conversation before they decide to have sex I think is just like you know this is perpetuating itself yeah yeah absolutely I think that I just expected it to be different with him because we had so much sexual tension built up that I was expecting it to be um like a fulfilling experience for both of us and while we were having sex I was thinking I was like this this is kind of disposable for him um because it's been that way for him in the past yeah he's he has had that um be reinforced over time that it is transactional and he's been treated as it being transactional um and a lot of these things you don't learn until you have experiences to teach you and that was okay like

i didn't go into that situation being like this about to be life-changing sex but i was disappointed by the fact that I had to be the one to do anything and then it was disappointing for for me in the end um because like there had been I respect him a lot as a person and I feel like he respects me a lot as a person we've built this friendship by not doing anything for a long time like him and I are we started dating and and we for a while whenever I would talk about it with anyone I'm like I think we're just friends and that is okay like that's how I was approaching talking about him so to have sex not feel like my part in it was being taken seriously and then for me to just literally from the time that he finished to the time that I had my clothes

on and I was going out the door was like three minutes because I was just like I I don't want of feel I don't want to expose myself to a situation where I allow myself to have more of a reason to feel like trash right now like I didn't want it to be like I'm laying in bed with him and then he just falls asleep right away I'm like no I'm just gonna get up and leave because I don't want to be around him for him to fall asleep yeah it was how were you after care wise like what what did you need there I think if and and it sucks because I was thinking about that and I think that if I would have if we would have had sex earlier in the night I still think that he would have fallen asleep right away and like that wasn't for him to take an edible before I

got there too it's like and he does that he he is not considerate at all when I go there and and last night was we have a joke where like whenever I go over he always makes me run an errand with him and it's I always go over there late so it's like why don't you handle this earlier in the day I'm gonna say to everybody listening like everything Amelia's told me about this guy before she started talking about him i have he's always rubbed me the wrong way yeah i was like why the fuck are you still hanging out with this guy it was it started to be a puzzle for me like and i don't like puzzles he's not a puzzle he's just clueless that's that's the thing and i don't think that i realized that i was like oh my god figure him out like i really got to get

to the bottom of this and and i get it now and and i i don't know how much of what i just said is going to be kept in but I want I want to say that he is a he is genuinely a good person and I think that he's well-intentioned oh I don't doubt that at all and I know you don't but it's like it's I feel like it's important for me to say I dated so um the guy I dated here um I felt like he was clueless like that maybe not as selfish um but completely clueless yeah like not considering comparing um like another person yeah if that makes sense and it's not even being like intentionally malicious it's it's just the fact of the matter and being clueless hurts a lot of the time like I I'm just like I don't want to waste my time with it but he is so kind and like whip smart

and like really really easy to be around and I enjoy his friendship and so the confusion paired with that made me want to just like figure it out because it's like I see so much potential with you that like like I just want to get it and so last night was such a bummer because it's like okay like I get it now like and and I might again like I'm not I'm not absolving any of the responsibility for how it went because I waited a long time to make a move and he didn't know if I wanted to make a move and it was late and he was high and like there was all of these factors at play that made the sex bad but like it was just for for us to wait as long as we did and then for it to be bad was like oh and I'm sure that he feels he's feeling the same way I haven't heard from him

today and usually he texts me like right away and I don't feel like it's uh well he got what he wanted because we hung out seven times so it's not like he like was just trying to like you know like bang and leave me high and dry I think that he's probably feeling the same way like that probably didn't go how either of us expected it to and like we're gonna have to have a conversation about that and that's what i'm like i put a lot of importance on being able to like be open and have chats about it but i don't know if he has the maturity to so it's gonna be you're gonna have to initiate the conversation i think so too that's good we should probably wrap it up yeah okay well well thanks folks we will still we still need to figure out our intro and we still need to

figure out an outro yeah we i never know how to end these yeah it's usually where we get to a point where like that's a good place to stop yeah and like well because you and i could talk for fucking hours and hours we have to cut ourselves off really good we love you so much our children some good harmony gasby's like shut the oh baby