The Hoely Hour - Klarna for Sex

Episode Date: May 8, 2026

Is your sex more like paying on klarna, or are you sucking the life out of each other's mouths? We interview Dark Frank (one of Frank's friends) about his experience with tantric sex and Amelia takes the opportunity to ask him about his experience as a polyamory magnet. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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She heard a dog outside. You don't know him. okay we back baby hey hello we have a guest today that we just roped in surprise guest literally 10 minutes ago one of frank's friends dark frank is what liz called him friend of frank dark frank i'll take it dark frank i like dark frank yeah dark frank well because that's how i felt when when i met you this weekend like you are so similar to frank but also not you're darker i mean yeah but i don't know that's racist frank is my better he's my better half i'd say okay the best parts of me live in frank they're like yin and yang yeah you guys are like yin and yang

you're really like brothers yeah well he's he's going back home today i won't say where because he's going to stay anonymous this episode because we're going to talk about some exciting exciting like dirty little topics so but he's flying home today so this is the last thing that he's doing before he goes back to his homeland nice way to say it yeah yeah thank you for agreeing to this this is fucking hilarious thank you for having me ladies um so to get into the conversation that we're going to be having with dark frank i found this article on cosmopolitan about this trend about trad wife porn being on the rise uh-huh it's like one of we can't escape the tradwifery no it is one of like the fastest growing trends on cause on a porn hub like

fascinating isn't that amazing the men just yearn for domesticity i think yeah well so that's you should say that things are they want to stay home and it's not stay home the trend isn't just on like porn either it's like there are like on instagram reels like just this like aesthetic like fantasy of like hyper feminism submissive homemaker women um so like the whole uh what's lucky blue's wife's name uh the one that like makes like my husband wanted waffles so oh i I don't remember her name, but I know who you're talking about. Have you seen those videos, Dark Brig? And she always shows her, like, collarbone.

Yeah. She's always, like, posed. And she's self-aware now, so it's, like, more fun to watch. But the gay trad wife stuff is out there, too. Like, Cardo, your dinner's ready. Oh. You haven't seen that? No.

Oh. It's good. I'm not on gay trad wife TikTok. Me neither, but I want to be. Get on that. I hope my phone is listening so it knows that I want to see that. But the thought is that it's not really about homemaking. it's like about like control simplicity and clearly defined roles in relationships they

they polled gen z men and baby boomer men and gen z men are more than twice as likely to agree that women should always obey their husbands the boys are confused they're confused 31 of gen z men say that a wife should always obey her husband and 13 of baby boomer men i'm just hoping that well i guess gen z isn't like teenagers anymore yeah that's true they're like in college now yeah and graduated college yeah that's kind of crazy more um more gen z women are going to college than men and uh women are getting entry-level jobs yeah and men are not yeah i don't think the gen z men i don't know if they really have social skills but shout out to women in stem if there's any women in stem out there shout out to you you run this shit thank you yeah the women

really are we really are holding it down but it's interesting because it does feel like there are women in more positions of power now like you said going to college more and more and there's still this like interest and obsession with the idea of women staying at home you know which is i think an interesting kind of thing because when boomers were like being raised and also like for a lot of the time like were married to women that stayed at home i think the difference i mean i guess if you think about like how each of their parents grew up so like gen z their parents most likely both of them were working whereas like boomers they're only their mom was working so they or their dad was working and their mom was more likely to be the one at home all the time so

you they probably saw like their mom didn't have any financial independence and needed to depend on her husband and like when we've talked about this before women weren't allowed to have their own bank account yeah 1973 so is that the year i'm pretty sure that's insane it was it was definitely in the 70s um so i think maybe that could be part of it and i also think gen z kids like gen z boys just want another mom yeah i think you're right i also don't really know that many gen z people but it does seem like that from just like the general internet yeah i don't know dark frank do you feel like you are when you are thinking about your future this is getting deep now when you're thinking about your future partner because you date women exclusively i do would you

the idea of somebody like being at home and like having that like homemaker persona is that like hot to you this is just your personal opinion i don't think hot's the right thing to say but if they can pick up what i put down in the sense that i want to be doing the same things you're i you're asking the wrong guy because i kind of want to be a stay-at-home dad yeah if it was my choice you know you saw i cooked you dinner you saw what i was oh my god yes wait pause dark frank made me and frank the most fucking amazing dinner last night from it looked very beautiful all from it was like all ingredients from pike place and it was the most like well thought out well balanced like intentional like every ingredient was intentional

in there it was crazy if someone else can bring that with me yeah and we're splitting all the responsibilities to and fro then i'm half a trad wife yeah you know yeah that's kind of how i see it right i mean so i don't necessarily see that it's something to fetishize necessarily but do i find it desirable some of those aspects yes but it's not like i want to lock you in a tower like rapunzel yeah you know it's it's just cool aspects you think are desirable who doesn't want to come home to banana bread that's true yeah that's fair yeah well specifically this article called out um the beginning of it says scrolling through tiktok i come across a woman holding a loaf of bread so far so normal then suddenly a man's hand reaches into the screen and holds her neck as

though he's going to choke her no that's weird yeah the man enters the shot and hugs the woman from behind before we hear a slapping sound that the woman laughs off let's plate up dinner she says so it's like that kind of like oh like the strong man is home and like you've been cooking all day is what people are gravitating toward more and throughout this article there are people that are like no this is just a porno yeah well i guess it makes sense that it's like a trending type of porn yeah but it's it's interesting because like a lot of the people that they interviewed were like female business owners and like people that like are running shit but they're turned on by the idea of like being a trad wife and it's almost maybe it's like i think that's

probably just decision fatigue yeah i'm sick of telling people what to do all fucking day i'd rather just do it at home yeah that makes sense that makes sense so divulging a little bit from this the reason that i thought that this would be a good dovetail into our conversation with dark frank is because dark frank i don't even know how to intro this i have never met anybody that has been has had the experience that you've had with tantric sex specifically i just love women right i really do i love women i think that yes clip that chat i think that that's an interesting like juxtaposition with this trend where because tantric sex is like you're doing that for hours and like oh yeah like if if our listeners aren't familiar with tantric sex do you have

a way to describe it there's lots of ways to describe it but it's so much it's just so much easier to do it um no turn the camera straight yeah I wish i think that the you know there's like always the uh kind of like the spiritual aspects of stuff and it's like what people say they do on paper and what you're actually doing in a bedroom are two completely different things and we don't have to make it like like a crunchy crystal stuff you know what i mean i feel like there's a certain ritual to it of if i may i mean that's this whole podcast that's this whole podcast i guess it's learning every centimeter of a woman's body and understanding where those sensitivities lie how

what how what responds to what what needs what kind of touch what needs what kind of feel and texture and admiration and i think the like to tie it back to dinner every ingredient wants to be treated a certain way and i think yeah that's so poetic no in a way i feel like we're we're made up of these different ingredients we're made up of these different sources and i think each of them could be let's say shown in the correct light as the best way to put it i'm thinking about this quote that we've talked about early early episodes um and it's like there are men who love sex and there are men who love pussy you're a man who loves pussy yeah yeah that's a compliment it's delicious but so what's the

longest because tantric sex will go on for hours and hours and hours yeah what's the longest that you've gone and why oh longest maybe eight to ten hours that's insane why because I can't work that long I mean that's a good reason but like is it the positions that make it possible for you to last that long or no it's all mental okay it's all mental I mean I can come whenever I want but that's a whole different story um so yeah is it I'm trying to because like I know that there's like a part of tantric sex that the it's like the fact that you can hold off for a long time and that has to do with it's all mental or is it like are there like positions because I remember I picked up a book in a library when I was younger that was like a tantric sex like positions book

yeah how much of it is just edging is all of it edging no not all of it is edging I think Full body edge. Full body edge is awesome. Don't get me wrong. I think it's my own personal take. I guess everyone has a different flavor. I would still call myself more of a journeyman or an adept. I'm not an expert in any of these things.

I'm just an experienced individual. Right. But I'm solely focused on the pleasure of my partner. And how far can I fucking stretch that? Like, can we go on and on and on until you hate me? Because I have. yeah i've been cursed out before i've been cursed out before some relationships have ended that way ended with tantric sex yeah because of tantric sex because it went on too long yes

yes actually um two occasions i can recall were you sorry i'm like reading here about tantric sex so that i like can ask questions intelligently um like is this something that you like stumbled up did something did a partner of yours introduce you to this or is it you like read about it you're like i'm gonna fuck for eight hours some of it is learned experience but i've also like i've done one or two classes they weren't anything too crazy they were fun like they have classes about this yeah but it's like it's like clothes on stuff and it's like connecting with strangers honestly like if you want to be real it's a bunch of middle-aged women trying to get out there and it's it's interesting it's fun um in terms of what is it it's like place your

hand on your partner's chest close your eyes feel their breath that kind of thing it's like very like low level intimacy i think it's fun you also do like a lot of um like a lot of breath work with your partner a lot of like body to body contact that's close on not necessarily it's it's very sexual but not intimate i don't know how else to explain that yeah i mean like it feels like it's a way that would make people feel closer yeah that's what i was thinking while you were explaining it like you're not always consciously paying attention to those things yeah it's about eliminating barriers ultimately okay that makes sense so but you and forgive me if i'm not understanding this correctly you've you've had you've had these experiences with people that

you haven't been in a relationship with both both both inside and outside relationships does it get messy to have a tantric sex encounter with someone you're not in a relationship with like do those breakups get messier because you had this connection do the breakups get messier because we have those connections often yes yeah but for people who are i would say in a healthy sexual headspace and they can have these kinds of brief encounters with a lot of intensity and move on they can be extremely rewarding there's a lot of liberation that you have with a more or less not a stranger i mean hopefully you're not just fucking strangers like hopefully you get to know people a little bit before you do that and often we do but do i want to know everything about you

and meet your parents no we're not doing that yeah um right but that's not to say that you can't have some of the most beautiful incredible intimate sex of your life with someone you're probably just going to see three four times and bounce yeah so it's not it's like historically for you it's not like that like you aren't just seeing them a couple of times often i actually find that in relationships it's more challenging because the constant communication and there's a level of expectation there yeah it does exist whereas it doesn't exist in what the kids call a situationship today okay right yeah would you say that tantric sex is just 90 for play no um because that's kind of the general societal understanding well another question is

is foreplay not already part of sex i think that's implied that foreplay is part of sex but not for everyone unfortunately i'm so sorry for you if that's you in the audience um i think everyone's had an experience like that at some point i've historically hated foreplay very disappointed oh yeah we have talked about that really yeah you're a gooner that's why i think i might be you're a fucking gooner i think just historically i've just wanted to get it over with you know what i mean i'm like we don't need it like this isn't my favorite part yeah right oh i will draw that shit out for hours which is that's what i mean like it do you feel like it's less penetrative it doesn't i mean like percentage wise yeah obviously it's less

penetrative i mean that that it ultimately ends there right doesn't have to but ultimately ends there um there's so many things there's so many aspects about sex and just being with someone as an individual that don't really require you to actually have foreplay or genitals or any of that involved i mean close your eyes and suck someone's soul out of their mouth there's shit you can do yeah right wait so how did you like get into this and i have a follow-up question yeah is every time you have sex tantric sex no not all sex is tantric sex but any sex can become tantric with the right person um again i think it's it's and it's about intention some like amelia just mentioned yeah like sometimes you just want to pop and get it over with i think we've all been there but there's

some partners where it's it's like it's a drama it's a fight it's a play it's a war there's there's energy exchanges there's so many things happening over the course of these hours that it's not just oh i need to come like that's not that's not what's on your mind coming isn't the thing you're thinking of it's i have a very important question what is your astrological sign oh i'm a sag okay yeah does that check out that wasn't what i was gonna guess oh actually after you got out of the car on on saturday was that saturday or friday um dark frank was like do you know anything about the zodiac i was like liz does we should we should have asked liz you know your big three yeah yeah yeah yeah i'm um fucking scorpio moon ass i was gonna say we have

to have scorpio in there somewhere there's gotta be scorpio in the big three yeah leo rising yes am i yeah we get each other i feel like that all makes sense yeah i'm a crazy rat bastard adventurous we love it about you intense very we still haven't discovered how did you start getting into tantric sex like most things you kind of just stumble into it um you do a little bit of reading obviously you try and understand things but i wouldn't say i'm like again i'm not an expert in anything so it's really amateurish stuff it's just like baseline reading it's a little bit of things you find online and most of it's just experiential like yeah experiencing people in a way that's just not like thing goes in a hole and we're done you know yeah

yeah yeah like how deeply can i feel you what what what stirs wrath in you what stirs lust in you what what makes you tick what makes you scream what makes you cry yeah i'm obsessed with you so i looked up some tantra facts just to like bolster this conversation because i think it's important to talk about the the origins of this because we've never talked about tantric sex on the podcast no it's been six years that we've had this i've also like never really thought about no me neither so thank you dark friend for bringing this into our field of view so tantra isn't originally about sex at all it's a spiritual practice from hindu and buddhist traditions focused on liberation and consciousness not just pleasure sounds about right um so sex is just a

small portion of it but there have been reported benefits of tantric sex reduced anxiety and depression increased relaxation better emotional regulation deeper intimacy and connection and increased pleasure and body awareness which is interesting because i think from an outsider somebody that doesn't know anything about it it's just like oh these people are just like fucking for a long time but there's benefits we'll take it back and forth there was a time that i was very deep into eastern philosophy i was vegan i was a little one of those yoga dudes um big sagittarius big sagittarius man bun yeah i took a lot of kundalini yoga classes and it's so fucking annoying when i say it and i know

it's fucking annoying when i say it but it's just like a lot of stuff in the hips just like if you saw people doing this you'd be like oh okay what are they doing in there what are they doing i feel like this is definitely a date on the bachelor oh for sure but they don't know today that i'm just doing kegels in the meetings all fucking day you gotta they don't know that you gotta shit's wild nobody in here knows what i'm doing nobody knows i'm doing kegels right now oh i was gonna ask is this something that you like put in dating profiles or like absolutely not okay so you just hope that they're into it or no no this isn't something i go seeking in people it just happens it happens and you know sometimes people are some people are freakier than others

yeah yeah but no no no no of course i mean this is gonna without ego i often find myself this has happened to me way too many times i get a lot of virgins really really really like virgins are people who have only had sex with like one or two partners in their life this has happened to me so many times the role of sex teacher has been thrusted upon me i have not asked for it yeah and this has happened to me countless times in my life so it's like you kind of have to just prepare yourself and i mean i'm not saying tantra is the way and like all that but like no it's a big responsibility it is a big responsibility because you want to make sure you're treating this person right and exploring them the right way and making sure like they feel

open they feel good and they understand what's happening to them and you know some people some people have never been choked out before you need to show them that this is safe you know you're just gonna lose a little bit of blood to your head for a second and you're gonna come back and you're gonna feel fine yeah yeah yeah you know all sorts of stuff there's butt stuff there's all sorts of stuff and it's like everybody wants to try something but nobody knows where to start yeah so having someone with a little bit more experience sometimes does help and yes sometimes i am the more experienced partner and that is it's a great responsibility but it's something you have to treat with like a lot of it's a very delicate situation yeah it's a really delicate

situation you know you don't want to imprint someone's sexuality in such a way that they're going to go on thinking like oh i don't like sex right we talked about that a couple of weeks ago how like we like early experiences really do cloud how you view sex and they're and yeah because sometimes it's just like not good so then your expectations are pretty low right but I'm thinking about like pretty early on we had a listener who like wrote in and said like her first real boyfriend it was fun to experiment with him because neither of them knew what they were doing and that's not like something that you commonly experience is like we're both are like I don't know it's just like try and figure it out right obviously this is more intentional than that

but it's the same idea like you do have a different level of closeness when you're like experimenting and trying to figure it out right yeah totally it's yeah there i i there's so many things on here that are interesting to me that i want to read um you know have we talked about semen retention oh my goodness that's that is a tantric practice yeah yeah from over a thousand years ago in different traditions um and same with the late orgasm edging what you just brought up yes um which i think is fascinating um tantra treats breath and sexual energy as connected forces in the body so you were saying a lot of breath work so what what is what's the breath work like like is it it can be anything from like forced hyperventilation to increase your

state of arousal like significantly i would just pass out well you think that right yeah but then you're in it and you're like i'm so awake yeah no i'm lightheaded yeah picture it as uh sprinting and getting your heart up like crazy and then experiencing sexual pleasure i would kind of say that's what it would feel like but there's also like very gentle breathing like meditative stuff like i'm just gonna put it in and we're both gonna meditate and breathe and that's a beautiful experience to have with a partner or even with someone who's like you know a semi-stranger right yeah it's i mean this is like a crazy thing to imagine doing with somebody that you don't know very well just based on like what i'm seeing here like there are some traditional tantric texts that

viewed sex as a way to access altered states of consciousness 100 but we have these western sexpectations once you have an established partnership there's like a level of i wouldn't necessarily call it there's a level of expectation there's a level of like connectivity that you're like i know that this is what i'm getting out of this experience right so establishing a a new paradigm once you've already kind of laid a groundwork can be shocking for a lot of partners you can't just have someone who you have let's say like basic normal sex with and be like i want to try something really whatever i don't think a lot of people would be open to that yeah i want to hear more about what you mean by like western sexpectations like what what uh yeah what does

that mean to you i can't speak on eastern expectations so i'm just speaking on our behalf as like i don't know north american civil society this is going to get into things like hook up culture and stuff like that but i think that's fine right but it it is it is fine for you to talk totally to a level i do think it's like gendered it's worse on men it's worse from men not worse on men but it's definitely worse from men i think they definitely have these uh preconceived notions that sex is implied sex is like um not a thing that's earned but a thing that's just given i've seen that with a lot of men and it's kind of concerning honestly um i can't say friends of mine because i wouldn't be friends with them if that was the case but my understanding of a lot

of men is like they're just out there going on dates and they're like oh yeah after enough dates we're supposed to fuck i'm like no you fuck because you feel safe with that person yeah not because you've hit an arbitrary number or you've had some transactional thing that has happened right like that that comes as a result of okay this is a person who won't kill me with an axe if i go to their house right and you should treat it the same way like this girl's not gonna bite off my dick yeah like you i don't know why it's uh right so like i actually like this person right right right it is a big safety thing too yeah i would imagine like i don't know why would you want to have sex with someone you don't even like right i did that too much oh yeah i think

we're all pretty guilty of that and i think that's kind of not on the individual sexpectations but what our society has presented to us in shows like skins or euphoria or this or that like we have had such a sexualized media and society and i think we're constantly inundated with these images and these this this sex theater ultimately and you think you need it like food I think we do need it I think people should have it I think we should have it with the right people at the right time kind of like fast food you're not going to be eating fast food every day just because it's in your face you're going to be driving by all this shit but it's not like you need to be fucking everyone you see and I think that's the same the same connection can be made

yeah people are just getting addicted to the cheap and easy stuff and that's ultimately why sex has started to suck yeah yeah it is very and it's okay for it to be transactional sometimes but i think that it has in mass become so transactional transactional yeah yeah i was thinking earlier about like what would be the ultimate um addiction product and i feel like it would be like a stanley cup full of an energy drink with like a little pouch for zin and then like four screens and like one of them is porn hub and then one of them is cal sheet and poly market one of them is sports king the wrong person is gonna hear this you did have me in the first half and then there's gonna be uh um like a vape and a fidget spinner damn yeah honestly

we're headed that way yeah oh and then like yeah we can have maze runner or something on one of the other screens you should file ip that's a great idea yeah yeah i mean we are headed that way yeah we are i genuinely believe somebody's gonna hear this and be like that's brilliant oh and you can pay for everything with clarna of course that's the final topper yeah it is a brilliant idea you can order things directly from it i think this actually ties in perfectly to the whole tantric sex thing because it's immediate gratification clarna's immediate gratification with delayed consequence right and i think whole topic of what we're discussing is pretty much the opposite delayed gratification yeah yeah it's clarnic sex versus tantric sex oh episode title a lot i like

that a lot i think we just got our episode title brilliant thank you so much so westernized sex is uh just clarna clarna clarna sex clarna sex let's give it a whole new definition to lay away zing we're talking about sex and media i feel like okay in the past 20 years we've had a certain image of it in the past 30 years not 30 um like the 30 years before that let's say 1970 to the 2000s of course there's a lot of problems with the way sex was portrayed there's a lot of problems the way women were portrayed in media and all of that but it was an entirely different idea of what sex is and i think that somehow was more intimate more raunchy more attractive than whatever it is we're it's the commodified version that we have today and i'm not just like oh

hearken back to the classics you need old titties on your screen no that's not what i'm talking about i mean there was an allure the allure has been lost because sex is in your face now you can't you can't open up a screen without seeing something anymore yeah right whereas people would have to like find a vhs and pause at just the right second to get their rocks off that those days are gone right yeah it's like endless swiping to whatever you want to see yeah yeah to the point where you're like i don't even know what i like anymore yeah right there's you could yeah if you if you dream it it exists it's wild we're living in a weird fucking time indeed we are we have covered a lot of interesting topics on this podcast yeah we had a gooning episode

a gooning episode yeah where i went into great detail about the gooning culture there is no gooning without edging damn based that is based well that's yeah that's kind of whole thing yeah um have you seen that like i think i saw i don't know i'll show it to you later it's like a clip where uh they're pretending to be in class and he's like so as you can see you can goon without edging but you can't edge without goon he's like he's like that's cap it's funny he's like what'd you say big chungus wow you want to share with the class hey stop talking to my discord kitten so it's just a bunch of like those like buzzwords yeah everything gen alpha slop everything is gen alpha gripper slop i'm so concerned about them

the kids are not all right no the kids are not all right we when we anytime we talk about this too though i'm like we're always like every generation has had a panic about like the younger generation and then they eventually figure it out yeah like i do be fair a lot of things are fucked right now yeah and that's what concerns me i mean i got little cousins they're smart as fuck yeah but they're also using well this is completely different sorry quick segue way they're using technology as an extension of themselves whereas we didn't have that yeah like they are they're like a luxury they're tapped in in a way that i do not understand yeah happy as i mean i know i mean like you'll see like little i've said this on the podcast before you'll see

like two-year-olds like that are able to like operate an ipad easily and it's like what do you mean like they come out of the womb like knowing how to use an ipad well and then it's interesting to think about how they don't even know what some of the symbols mean yeah like like what an actual phone used to look like yeah like when they're doing this now they don't when they're talking on the phone now they like symbol with their hand up to their face instead of this instead of just their thumb and their pinky oh that's kind of terrifying i know things are changing dark or like when you open your email it's a letter yeah yeah yeah physical letter yes and they're like you know what's crazy is they'll never know the joy of you've got mail i have never felt as old

as i do then when i have these kind of conversations because i was just about to bring up floppy disks what do you mean like those are already kind of like i don't think i really i don't know i was a little too young to do anything with a floppy disk well i was i remember all about floppy disks but i was also like like such a computer kid did you cosplay being an adult like probably did you pretend you were going to work i dressed as my dad for halloween in third grade and i wore like his like work outfit when i was when i was pretty young like pre-elementary school i would like pretend i was going to work well because you're like mimicking what your parents are doing i'm sure yeah and then one time in elementary school when my parents were gone

they were like if anyone calls you can answer the phone and take a message and i was like okay i took it very seriously i put a headset on and connected it to the phone and i had a little notepad that was ready i was like i hope someone calls that's so cute i wanted to work they probably thought that was the cutest shit in the world they did think it was funny i love that and now i don't want to work at all i know isn't that so funny they were always like don't grow up too fast Kim Kardashian's complaining about people like me. Yeah, get up. Get off your ass.

But if you're not working, do you want to be a trad wife? Ooh, tying it back. Well, I wouldn't be a mom, so that would be nice. Fair. Be at home all day. Yeah. Cleaning. With Gramps and Gatsby.

Cooking and cleaning. I would love that shit. Sometimes when I'm, like, doing shit around the house, I'm like, it makes sense why some people need to do this full time. Oh, yeah. 100%. Like, shit gets out of control in here. Like, I blink, and, like, the place is a mess.

It's crazy. i mean the shitty part is not feeling like you have any independence like your only income is your partners yeah so like what am i gonna go like on a shopping spree with yeah are we sourdough girlies at all i did a short sourdough phase so you understand that you are to the beck and call of the sourdough you really are you have to like you have to be home it's like a third pet this is what i'm saying it's like you don't really have a choice if you're about this trad wife bullshit you got to be there when the sourdough is like fucking ready to go otherwise you're not having bread yeah so yeah the starter's gonna die starter's gonna die gotta make some bread

i remember talking to one of my friends like about uh her sourdough stuff she's like yeah i got really into it and um i was like asking her like well what do you do when you like go out of town and then her husband was like yeah like you you literally have to like babysit the sourdough yeah you have to feed it and shit that's crazy and one time i was like i left town and my sourdough starter kind of like died out and then um my boyfriend was like why didn't you ask me to take care of the sourdough and i was like there's like 50 steps and it's not that i think you're dumb it's like you're it took me a while to figure it out a lot to ask of someone yeah i'm like it's very specific you would like i would have had like big idea like how they have dog sitters

you're gonna make sourdough so yes rover but rover for sourdough rover for sourdough yeah that is a great idea you're welcome i'm going to quit my job i'm gonna do rover for sourdough and sell magic mushrooms i love that and this podcast and like tell people what their astrology chart means yeah well honestly you're kind of living the dream my alternative me is like living the life yeah she's like so happy yeah she's really happy i'm so happy doing all her side hustles yeah um if you don't mind i'm going to divert the conversation to and if you don't want to talk about this i'll just cut this out too so just let me know i know that you have been experiencing dating a lot of people that are polyamorous yeah you yourself are not polyamorous yes that is an

interesting position to be in it is and we talk a lot about polyamory on the podcast wait so you're the partner of polyamorous people no never i don't just fucking just fucking yeah i mean we had this uh little conversation sometimes i i um i go to a poly party and i like the match and walk away you can say but no generally i try not to have too much too many partners i don't have polyamorous partners for the reason of upkeep i do just i i enjoy monogamy exhausting it is exhausting and you know no i love i love my poly people but god damn i don't know how you guys make it work you guys make it look really fucking hard yeah i'm serious you make it look really fucking hard i don't know if it's worth it yeah i mean that's what we say a lot it's like

people talk about polyamory like yeah we just both agree that this is fine and it's not so much of the time like it is so not going smoothly so much of the time i mean i i feel like a lot of polyamorous people uh just like the drama of relationships oh hot take insecurity in a relationship is it's always keeping you busy there's always a problem in your relationship to solve and be focused on yeah and it can having like a distraction like that makes you feel productive why would you want the trouble of dating times three times four like i don't i don't yeah that's a lot to manage yeah i'd rather have one very like trusting connection with a single partner yeah and the bullshit that comes with it yeah yeah that's enough i only need

i only need relationship bullshit with one person yeah right it just sounds exhausting we went to get lunch yesterday me frank and dark frank and our server was polyamorous and how did you find that out gave oh he gave us his whole thing he is dating two people um they both know about each other one of them's gonna move back to italy in a year so like that's gonna end it's a triangle and he was saying that he like has he dedicates two days to one of them two days to the other two days to himself and then no one day to himself in two days to his friends and he's like worked this out like to like to a scientific and he's like i am taking better care of myself now than i ever have and i'm being more communicative now than i ever um have been i know of a polyamorous

trio where one of them lives upstairs one partner lives upstairs and the other partner lives downstairs and the connecting partner is married to these two people obviously only one of them is a legal marriage that feels like a sister wives thing and they just go up and down between yeah maybe the trad wives and the polyamorous people can get together and find something new to do with it or did they already do that yeah i mean the horseshoe might be closing then i think that's kind of like when we get into the 70s swinger era oh i was thinking of like polygamous compounds oh okay yeah we're gonna start having like polygamous compound key parties yeah i feel like people are reinventing polygamous compounds as like you know little hippie communes

yeah amory right yeah it's just you guys aren't doing anything new yeah no of course yeah let's call a spade a spade yeah that's so true they're just like dressing it up with a different name we all know what you're doing anyway i'm just like curious about like what it's like to be on the outside of that but also kind of be on the inside of it like you're again not polyamorous but you're seeing so much of what these people are dealing with like does it get frustrating for you to like keep dating people that are polyamorous and just be like well fuck it's just like i'm inheriting drama i kind of find if you put yourself in the heart of any metropolitan city you're going to experience a lot of polyamory that's just what comes with cities now if you're on the outskirts

and suburbs you're probably not going to run into as much of that but yeah suburbs is more swingers i would say yeah suburban parent swingers here's the thing a lot of the polyamorous people actually cross into swingers territory i do believe there is some overlap there not as much as you think my beef with poly people is them like pushing polyamory on you they feel so pushy about it i've experienced that or or even just like non-monogamy i'm like that's great for you yeah i'm not telling you not to do it yeah go ahead i'm not interested yeah right i mean i have seen like stop trying to convince me that you're having fun because i can tell you're not right yeah i'm the one calming you down when your five boyfriends hate you yeah right this is not

attractive to become a part of like it's just yeah i don't really understand i i see so little draw in it but it's not my thing i mean if you're happy but in dating these folks yeah i find you sometimes i i get close enough but i like to maintain a little bit of distance because it gets really messy really quick yeah yeah and then i don't i don't want to be in someone's polycule like let's just be honest about it i'm i'm okay having like you be my my fun time partner for whatever time we have together and that's an excellent thing and then it's like oh but you're married and this and that and this partner's birthday is coming and that one i i don't need all that like i don't need it by extension right like i don't want to be like poly by proxy yeah

poly by proxy because yeah that's kind of what it is so i find it doesn't always work out really well but poly folks mix up with poly folks sometimes you get into it but i try to kind of stay in my own lane a bit yeah getting a planner to balance all your relationships you have to because like google calendar yeah right i just like i feel like i've experienced from the outside like a lot of couples i actually see this in in like gay relationships a lot more that there's like a married couple and they bring in like another man and like it always always starts out as like this is great everyone's happy like i'm more connected to this like the one guy in the relationship but the other one's okay with it and then it turns into this whole thing of like

oh yeah his husband is like starting to get uncomfortable with this it is always it's like written on the wall you know like it it just always goes that way and having to manage I mean this is the same thing I feel like we're talking in circles now but it's the same thing as like you know you're having to like manage other like more than one person's relationship drama like you're also having to manage the emotions that come with right this like and like the jealousy of somebody that you aren't really interacting much with and then the part the person that's in between them having to manage all of that like it just it doesn't make sense to me how it ever works and it does for some people but I I have it's just so happily unhappy with you yeah like

it just doesn't I I'm just mind blown by it and I haven't been close enough to it to really understand it I can't say I'm queer but I hang out in a lot of queer circles and I've I can safely say that queer people break the rules and do whatever they want that is by definition yeah they are you know they are not adhering to any strict tenets so i think once you start to to look at it from i don't know our straight point of view it kind of becomes moot because it doesn't matter what we think they're going to continue to do what they do and that's fine like they should be able to feel the things they want to feel in a non-traditional uh sexual relationship gender or any space that they want to have their rules broken

or non-adherence to anything traditional, I think they should have it. And I think those places should exist. Absolutely. But just because we're not involved, it's kind of like, is the grass greener? Do they want my grass? I don't know if I want their grass,

but do they want my grass? It doesn't matter who's grass. Right. Right? Yeah. Yeah, it does feel like it's more power to you. For sure. 100%.

And Liz and I have always said, too, it's like we're not gonna yuck someone's yum like do whatever you want to fucking do personally i don't i cannot see i just don't see it working and it's not just even from a queer perspective you know like that that's that's like a ground that i just won't understand um oh i know myself well enough yeah way too jealous of a person oh my god me or no one yeah same when i'm having these monogamous and uh polyamorous queer conversation all these people together in the same room this is typically what the monogamous folks say yeah like yeah i'm jealous and then oftentimes the poly person will be like oh but that's something you can work through and it's

like maybe i don't want to work through it but maybe i don't want to work through it maybe this is just the person who i've realized myself to be maybe i don't want to undo the conditioning that i've already had done like to be fair you guys are undoing your conditioning and doing all of that and that's a beautiful thing for you but i can't say that that's for everyone no that's okay yeah right like there's no there's no moral line to say like oh i should or shouldn't be jealous like yeah i'm gonna be jealous that's my fucking girl dude get this get the fuck off right yeah it's not a territorial thing i just love you babe yeah yeah period well i i mean i don't have anything else do you have anything else no sick do you have any closing thoughts

closing thoughts i don't know take them for a walk amelia give me a wild card oh um like a like a just like lobby a lobby or something yeah lob me something okay knock it out give these people a show fucking uh life fuck marry kill um uh tantric sex basic human connection platonically wow and polyamory i think i know where that one's gonna go though yeah or polyamory to be more yeah more of a challenge more of a difficult choice or um trad wife tradwifery just like being a stay-at-home dad yeah being a stay-at-home dad that's a good one come on okay so to just remind because that took a while for us to get to fuck marry kill tantric sex basic platonic human connection and being a stay-at-home dad

okay let's copy out the stay-at-home dad thing like you know there's dinks out there power to the dinks love you guys i want kids so stay at home for me i gotta marry that okay gotta marry that it's for me okay just have dreams of being girl dad man yeah can't help it okay uh penelope it's the name of his delusional daughter she's still in my sperm she's still just yeah she's hanging out in your balls yeah um yeah i'm gonna brush her hair and take her sock we're getting derailed okay uh marry tantric sex and kill whatever the last one was basic human connection oh i guess platonic platonic friendship jesus christ i'm gonna tell frank he said that i think he knows once they have tantric sex it'll be fine yeah i've always wanted

no complete the thought we'll end on that he doesn't want bro love like that no no but he does love you to death yeah but he wouldn't kiss me no he wouldn't no no tongue either no tongue don't get jealous we're polyamorous yeah i mean now we are is this yeah is this happening is this happening should we call him upstairs this is how it starts yeah oh my god well light the match walk away yeah thank you dark frank thank you for having me thank you for tapping in yeah so actual last minute just literally before he gets on a plane yeah he's he comes home from i don't even know what you and frank were doing but you guys walked in and i was like you want to interview on the pod and then we did so this

is really all on the fly yeah so thank you this is my dream thank you so much ladies thank you thank you we love you guys goodbye a little abridged version just a little change yeah a little change up remix